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    <title>Creative Agency Account Manager Podcast</title>
    <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/creative-agency-account-manager-podcast</link>
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    <description>This podcast is for you if you are managing day to day client relationships in a creative agency. The aim of the podcast is to share insights and tips to help you add more value to the client's business, strengthen your relationships with your clients, develop your skills in account management and grow your agency's business.</description>
    <copyright>@Account Management Skills Ltd</copyright>
    <language>en</language>
    <pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2020 13:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
    <lastBuildDate>Mon, 04 May 2026 20:46:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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      <title>Creative Agency Account Manager Podcast</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/creative-agency-account-manager-podcast</link>
      <description>This podcast is for you if you are managing day to day client relationships in a creative agency. The aim of the podcast is to share insights and tips to help you add more value to the client's business, strengthen your relationships with your clients, develop your skills in account management and grow your agency's business.</description>
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    <googleplay:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</googleplay:author>
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      <itunes:category text="Marketing"/>
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      <itunes:category text="Management"/>
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    <itunes:category text="Education">
      <itunes:category text="Courses"/>
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    <googleplay:summary>This podcast is for you if you are managing day to day client relationships in a creative agency. The aim of the podcast is to share insights and tips to help you add more value to the client's business, strengthen your relationships with your clients, develop your skills in account management and grow your agency's business.</googleplay:summary>
    <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
    <itunes:type>episodic</itunes:type>
    <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
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    <itunes:summary>This podcast is for you if you are managing day to day client relationships in a creative agency. The aim of the podcast is to share insights and tips to help you add more value to the client's business, strengthen your relationships with your clients, develop your skills in account management and grow your agency's business.</itunes:summary>
    <itunes:subtitle>This podcast is for you if you are managing day to day client relationships in a creative agency. The aim of the podcast is to share insights and tips to help you add more value to the client's business, strengthen your relationships with your clients, develop your skills in account management and grow your agency's business.</itunes:subtitle>
    <itunes:keywords>creative agency account management</itunes:keywords>
    <itunes:owner>
      <itunes:name>Jenny Plant</itunes:name>
      <itunes:email>jenny@accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:email>
    </itunes:owner>
    <itunes:complete>No</itunes:complete>
    <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
    <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
    <item>
      <title>Rethinking agency operations for AI adoption, with Emily Hatton</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/0nj0rqln-rethinking-agency-operations-for-ai-adoption-with-emily-hatton</link>
      <itunes:title>Rethinking agency operations for AI adoption, with Emily Hatton</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>162</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">40pmvxr1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 162. If your agency is experimenting with AI, buying new tools and still feeling like not much has really changed operationally, you're not actually imagining it. That is exactly what this episode gets into. 

I'm chatting with Emily Hatton, a Business Operations Consultant and the founder of AI in Agencies, where she helps agencies turn AI from scattered experiments into structured, profitable ways of working. After years supporting service businesses with operations, capacity planning and profitability, Emily saw a growing gap: agencies were adopting AI tools quickly, but their operating models hadn’t caught up. Today, she works with agency founders and leadership teams to integrate AI into workflows, resourcing, pricing and delivery — helping teams save time, improve margins and get more value from the tools they already pay for. Her work focuses on practical implementation, not hype, and on helping agencies build sustainable AI capability inside their teams.

In this conversation, Emily and I talk about why AI adoption so often becomes a bit chaotic inside the agency. Different teams using different tools, no real ownership and not enough measurement of whether any of it is actually saving time or improving the work. 

We also get into why the smarter starting point is actually to look at your processes and workflows, not the latest tool that you can get, but how to get more from the actual tools you're already using, your tech stack. 

And finally, we talk about governance, client trust, pricing pressure, and what agencies need to sort out now if they want to stay commercially relevant. 

If AI in your agency currently feels a little bit messy, a bit exciting, but also a bit overwhelming all at the same time, then this one is for you. 

You can contact  and connect with Emily here:
www.linkedin.com/in/emily-hatton
https://aiinagencies.com/

How AI-ready is your account management team? Find out in 3 minutes with our free quiz - and discover where your biggest growth opportunities lie:
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/ai-readiness-quiz</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 162. If your agency is experimenting with AI, buying new tools and still feeling like not much has really changed operationally, you're not actually imagining it. That is exactly what this episode gets into.&nbsp;<br><br>I'm chatting with Emily Hatton, a Business Operations Consultant and the founder of AI in Agencies, where she helps agencies turn AI from scattered experiments into structured, profitable ways of working. After years supporting service businesses with operations, capacity planning and profitability, Emily saw a growing gap: agencies were adopting AI tools quickly, but their operating models hadn’t caught up. Today, she works with agency founders and leadership teams to integrate AI into workflows, resourcing, pricing and delivery — helping teams save time, improve margins and get more value from the tools they already pay for. Her work focuses on practical implementation, not hype, and on helping agencies build sustainable AI capability inside their teams.<br><br>In this conversation, Emily and I talk about why AI adoption so often becomes a bit chaotic inside the agency. Different teams using different tools, no real ownership and not enough measurement of whether any of it is actually saving time or improving the work.&nbsp;<br><br>We also get into why the smarter starting point is actually to look at your processes and workflows, not the latest tool that you can get, but how to get more from the actual tools you're already using, your tech stack.&nbsp;<br><br>And finally, we talk about governance, client trust, pricing pressure, and what agencies need to sort out now if they want to stay commercially relevant.&nbsp;<br><br>If AI in your agency currently feels a little bit messy, a bit exciting, but also a bit overwhelming all at the same time, then this one is for you.&nbsp;<br><br>You can contact&nbsp; and connect with Emily here:<br>www.linkedin.com/in/emily-hatton<br>https://aiinagencies.com/<br><br>How AI-ready is your account management team? Find out in 3 minutes with our free quiz - and discover where your biggest growth opportunities lie:<br>https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/ai-readiness-quiz</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2026 07:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/86lnrq48.mp3" length="62618038" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
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      <itunes:duration>3130</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 162. If your agency is experimenting with AI, buying new tools and still feeling like not much has really changed operationally, you're not actually imagining it. That is exactly what this episode gets into. 

I'm chatting with Emily Hatton, a Business Operations Consultant and the founder of AI in Agencies, where she helps agencies turn AI from scattered experiments into structured, profitable ways of working. After years supporting service businesses with operations, capacity planning and profitability, Emily saw a growing gap: agencies were adopting AI tools quickly, but their operating models hadn’t caught up. Today, she works with agency founders and leadership teams to integrate AI into workflows, resourcing, pricing and delivery — helping teams save time, improve margins and get more value from the tools they already pay for. Her work focuses on practical implementation, not hype, and on helping agencies build sustainable AI capability inside their teams.

In this conversation, Emily and I talk about why AI adoption so often becomes a bit chaotic inside the agency. Different teams using different tools, no real ownership and not enough measurement of whether any of it is actually saving time or improving the work. 

We also get into why the smarter starting point is actually to look at your processes and workflows, not the latest tool that you can get, but how to get more from the actual tools you're already using, your tech stack. 

And finally, we talk about governance, client trust, pricing pressure, and what agencies need to sort out now if they want to stay commercially relevant. 

If AI in your agency currently feels a little bit messy, a bit exciting, but also a bit overwhelming all at the same time, then this one is for you. 

You can contact  and connect with Emily here:
www.linkedin.com/in/emily-hatton
https://aiinagencies.com/

How AI-ready is your account management team? Find out in 3 minutes with our free quiz - and discover where your biggest growth opportunities lie:
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/ai-readiness-quiz</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 162. If your agency is experimenting with AI, buying new tools and still feeling like not much has really changed operationally, you're not actually imagining it. That is exactly what this episode gets into. 

I'm chatting with Emily Hatton, a Business Operations Consultant and the founder of AI in Agencies, where she helps agencies turn AI from scattered experiments into structured, profitable ways of working. After years supporting service businesses with operations, capacity planning and profitability, Emily saw a growing gap: agencies were adopting AI tools quickly, but their operating models hadn’t caught up. Today, she works with agency founders and leadership teams to integrate AI into workflows, resourcing, pricing and delivery — helping teams save time, improve margins and get more value from the tools they already pay for. Her work focuses on practical implementation, not hype, and on helping agencies build sustainable AI capability inside their teams.

In this conversation, Emily and I talk about why AI adoption so often becomes a bit chaotic inside the agency. Different teams using different tools, no real ownership and not enough measurement of whether any of it is actually saving time or improving the work. 

We also get into why the smarter starting point is actually to look at your processes and workflows, not the latest tool that you can get, but how to get more from the actual tools you're already using, your tech stack. 

And finally, we talk about governance, client trust, pricing pressure, and what agencies need to sort out now if they want to stay commercially relevant. 

If AI in your agency currently feels a little bit messy, a bit exciting, but also a bit overwhelming all at the same time, then this one is for you. 

You can contact  and connect with Emily here:
www.linkedin.com/in/emily-hatton
https://aiinagencies.com/

How AI-ready is your account management team? Find out in 3 minutes with our free quiz - and discover where your biggest growth opportunities lie:
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/ai-readiness-quiz</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What Makes Your Agency Valuable When Everyone Has AI?, with Eloise Todd</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/p8m5jy68-what-makes-your-agency-valuable-when-everyone-has-ai-with-eloise-todd</link>
      <itunes:title>What Makes Your Agency Valuable When Everyone Has AI?, with Eloise Todd</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>161</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">70vl74p0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 161. In this episode, we’re talking about what it really means to move from “getting stuff done” to becoming a genuinely strategic partner.

I'm chatting with Eloise (Ellie) Todd, Account Director at strategicabm, who support B2B SaaS and Tech clients in building successful and scalable ABM programs.. Ellie loves building relationships with clients and helping ABM programs grow and succeed.

Ellie shares how account-based marketing actually works in the real world — not the textbook version — and why getting sales and marketing aligned can make or break results.

We also get into something I know a lot of you are thinking about… AI. Specifically, what happens when an agency codifies its expertise and builds its own tool rather than just using ChatGPT to write emails.

And we talk about something I bang on about a lot - building relationships across multiple stakeholders inside your client’s organisation so you’re not exposed when your main contact leaves. (Because let’s be honest… that happens.)

If you’re wondering how to add more value beyond deliverables, and protect your accounts at the same time, this conversation will get you thinking.

A few things really stood out for me.

1. Value doesn’t just come from what you deliver. Sometimes the biggest difference you make is getting your client’s internal teams aligned. That’s not fluffy. That’s commercial.

2. Your IP matters. In a world where everyone has access to AI, what makes you different is your thinking, your frameworks, your experience. If you don’t package that up, someone else will.

3. Stay curious. Ask better questions. Challenge gently. Feed insight back into your agency. That’s how you move from order-taker to trusted adviser.

You can connect with Eloise Todd here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eloisetodd/

Resources mentioned:
ABM Mastery — strategicabm's suite of training programmes teaching AI use at each stage of ABM — https://www.strategicabm.com

If you’d like to stay updated with shifts in the agency world as they relate to the account management role , or if you’d like to talk to me about client retention and growth training for your team, head over to https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

And if you haven’t already, take the AI readiness quiz whilst you’re there. It takes a few minutes and it might highlight a few gaps you didn’t realise were there.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 161. In this episode, we’re talking about what it really means to move from “getting stuff done” to becoming a genuinely strategic partner.<br><br>I'm chatting with Eloise (Ellie) Todd, Account Director at strategicabm, who support B2B SaaS and Tech clients in building successful and scalable ABM programs.. Ellie loves building relationships with clients and helping ABM programs grow and succeed.<br><br>Ellie shares how account-based marketing actually works in the real world — not the textbook version — and why getting sales and marketing aligned can make or break results.<br><br>We also get into something I know a lot of you are thinking about… AI. Specifically, what happens when an agency codifies its expertise and builds its own tool rather than just using ChatGPT to write emails.<br><br>And we talk about something I bang on about a lot - building relationships across multiple stakeholders inside your client’s organisation so you’re not exposed when your main contact leaves. (Because let’s be honest… that happens.)<br><br>If you’re wondering how to add more value beyond deliverables, and protect your accounts at the same time, this conversation will get you thinking.<br><br>A few things really stood out for me.<br><br>1. Value doesn’t just come from what you deliver. Sometimes the biggest difference you make is getting your client’s internal teams aligned. That’s not fluffy. That’s commercial.<br><br>2. Your IP matters. In a world where everyone has access to AI, what makes you different is your thinking, your frameworks, your experience. If you don’t package that up, someone else will.<br><br>3. Stay curious. Ask better questions. Challenge gently. Feed insight back into your agency. That’s how you move from order-taker to trusted adviser.<br><br>You can connect with Eloise Todd here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eloisetodd/<br><br>Resources mentioned:<br>ABM Mastery — strategicabm's suite of training programmes teaching AI use at each stage of ABM — https://www.strategicabm.com<br><br>If you’d like to stay updated with shifts in the agency world as they relate to the account management role , or if you’d like to talk to me about client retention and growth training for your team, head over to https://www.accountmanagementskills.com<br><br>And if you haven’t already, take the AI readiness quiz whilst you’re there. It takes a few minutes and it might highlight a few gaps you didn’t realise were there.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2026 15:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/83l0jqnw.mp3" length="80158740" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/dcfe0240-423d-11f1-99df-9f6c5c0a86a4/dcfe03a0-423d-11f1-8f94-7fb49ae9f4b9.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>4007</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 161. In this episode, we’re talking about what it really means to move from “getting stuff done” to becoming a genuinely strategic partner.

I'm chatting with Eloise (Ellie) Todd, Account Director at strategicabm, who support B2B SaaS and Tech clients in building successful and scalable ABM programs.. Ellie loves building relationships with clients and helping ABM programs grow and succeed.

Ellie shares how account-based marketing actually works in the real world — not the textbook version — and why getting sales and marketing aligned can make or break results.

We also get into something I know a lot of you are thinking about… AI. Specifically, what happens when an agency codifies its expertise and builds its own tool rather than just using ChatGPT to write emails.

And we talk about something I bang on about a lot - building relationships across multiple stakeholders inside your client’s organisation so you’re not exposed when your main contact leaves. (Because let’s be honest… that happens.)

If you’re wondering how to add more value beyond deliverables, and protect your accounts at the same time, this conversation will get you thinking.

A few things really stood out for me.

1. Value doesn’t just come from what you deliver. Sometimes the biggest difference you make is getting your client’s internal teams aligned. That’s not fluffy. That’s commercial.

2. Your IP matters. In a world where everyone has access to AI, what makes you different is your thinking, your frameworks, your experience. If you don’t package that up, someone else will.

3. Stay curious. Ask better questions. Challenge gently. Feed insight back into your agency. That’s how you move from order-taker to trusted adviser.

You can connect with Eloise Todd here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eloisetodd/

Resources mentioned:
ABM Mastery — strategicabm's suite of training programmes teaching AI use at each stage of ABM — https://www.strategicabm.com

If you’d like to stay updated with shifts in the agency world as they relate to the account management role , or if you’d like to talk to me about client retention and growth training for your team, head over to https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

And if you haven’t already, take the AI readiness quiz whilst you’re there. It takes a few minutes and it might highlight a few gaps you didn’t realise were there.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 161. In this episode, we’re talking about what it really means to move from “getting stuff done” to becoming a genuinely strategic partner.

I'm chatting with Eloise (Ellie) Todd, Account Director at strategicabm, who support B2B SaaS and Tech clients in building successful and scalable ABM programs.. Ellie loves building relationships with clients and helping ABM programs grow and succeed.

Ellie shares how account-based marketing actually works in the real world — not the textbook version — and why getting sales and marketing aligned can make or break results.

We also get into something I know a lot of you are thinking about… AI. Specifically, what happens when an agency codifies its expertise and builds its own tool rather than just using ChatGPT to write emails.

And we talk about something I bang on about a lot - building relationships across multiple stakeholders inside your client’s organisation so you’re not exposed when your main contact leaves. (Because let’s be honest… that happens.)

If you’re wondering how to add more value beyond deliverables, and protect your accounts at the same time, this conversation will get you thinking.

A few things really stood out for me.

1. Value doesn’t just come from what you deliver. Sometimes the biggest difference you make is getting your client’s internal teams aligned. That’s not fluffy. That’s commercial.

2. Your IP matters. In a world where everyone has access to AI, what makes you different is your thinking, your frameworks, your experience. If you don’t package that up, someone else will.

3. Stay curious. Ask better questions. Challenge gently. Feed insight back into your agency. That’s how you move from order-taker to trusted adviser.

You can connect with Eloise Todd here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eloisetodd/

Resources mentioned:
ABM Mastery — strategicabm's suite of training programmes teaching AI use at each stage of ABM — https://www.strategicabm.com

If you’d like to stay updated with shifts in the agency world as they relate to the account management role , or if you’d like to talk to me about client retention and growth training for your team, head over to https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

And if you haven’t already, take the AI readiness quiz whilst you’re there. It takes a few minutes and it might highlight a few gaps you didn’t realise were there.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>ABM, AI agency, account director</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How account managers build real client trust, with Charles H Green</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/m84xrk78-how-account-managers-build-real-client-trust-with-charles-h-green</link>
      <itunes:title>How account managers build real client trust, with Charles H Green</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>160</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">x16lpwj1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 160. 

We’re diving into one of the most important topics in client relationships: trust, with Charles H. Green - an author, speaker and world expert on trust-based relationships and sales in complex businesses. Founder and  former CEO of Trusted Advisor Associates, he is author of Trust-based Selling, and co-author of The Trusted Advisor and the Trusted Advisor Fieldbook.  Charles spent 20 years in management consulting. He has a BA in philosophy (Columbia), and an MBA (Harvard).  

We explore what really drives trustworthiness, why listening is your most powerful tool as an account manager, how to build credibility without overcompensating, and why authentic relationships will only become more valuable in an AI-driven world.

There are some brilliant, practical insights in this one. My biggest takeaways? Trust is built far beyond credentials, listening is your superpower, and in a world of AI and automation, genuine human connection is only becoming more valuable.

You can connect with Charles H Green here:
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/charleshgreen
Website: http://trustedadvisor.com
Trusted Advisor test: https://trustedadvisor.com/build-trust/how-trustworthy-are-you

If you’d like to stay up to date with the latest thinking, tools and trends in account management, you can sign up for my weekly newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 160.&nbsp;<br><br>We’re diving into one of the most important topics in client relationships: trust, with Charles H. Green - an author, speaker and world expert on trust-based relationships and sales in complex businesses. Founder and&nbsp; former CEO of Trusted Advisor Associates, he is author of Trust-based Selling, and co-author of The Trusted Advisor and the Trusted Advisor Fieldbook.&nbsp; Charles spent 20 years in management consulting. He has a BA in philosophy (Columbia), and an MBA (Harvard). &nbsp;<br><br>We explore what really drives trustworthiness, why listening is your most powerful tool as an account manager, how to build credibility without overcompensating, and why authentic relationships will only become more valuable in an AI-driven world.<br><br>There are some brilliant, practical insights in this one. My biggest takeaways? Trust is built far beyond credentials, listening is your superpower, and in a world of AI and automation, genuine human connection is only becoming more valuable.<br><br>You can connect with Charles H Green here:<br>LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/charleshgreen<br>Website: http://trustedadvisor.com<br>Trusted Advisor test: https://trustedadvisor.com/build-trust/how-trustworthy-are-you<br><br>If you’d like to stay up to date with the latest thinking, tools and trends in account management, you can sign up for my weekly newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2026 15:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/wmk7xqvw.mp3" length="55472504" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/16fa39b0-28f9-11f1-84f5-654d5ae76bed/16fa3cd0-28f9-11f1-8f3e-1939531d8d33.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2773</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 160. 

We’re diving into one of the most important topics in client relationships: trust, with Charles H. Green - an author, speaker and world expert on trust-based relationships and sales in complex businesses. Founder and  former CEO of Trusted Advisor Associates, he is author of Trust-based Selling, and co-author of The Trusted Advisor and the Trusted Advisor Fieldbook.  Charles spent 20 years in management consulting. He has a BA in philosophy (Columbia), and an MBA (Harvard).  

We explore what really drives trustworthiness, why listening is your most powerful tool as an account manager, how to build credibility without overcompensating, and why authentic relationships will only become more valuable in an AI-driven world.

There are some brilliant, practical insights in this one. My biggest takeaways? Trust is built far beyond credentials, listening is your superpower, and in a world of AI and automation, genuine human connection is only becoming more valuable.

You can connect with Charles H Green here:
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/charleshgreen
Website: http://trustedadvisor.com
Trusted Advisor test: https://trustedadvisor.com/build-trust/how-trustworthy-are-you

If you’d like to stay up to date with the latest thinking, tools and trends in account management, you can sign up for my weekly newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 160. 

We’re diving into one of the most important topics in client relationships: trust, with Charles H. Green - an author, speaker and world expert on trust-based relationships and sales in complex businesses. Founder and  former CEO of Trusted Advisor Associates, he is author of Trust-based Selling, and co-author of The Trusted Advisor and the Trusted Advisor Fieldbook.  Charles spent 20 years in management consulting. He has a BA in philosophy (Columbia), and an MBA (Harvard).  

We explore what really drives trustworthiness, why listening is your most powerful tool as an account manager, how to build credibility without overcompensating, and why authentic relationships will only become more valuable in an AI-driven world.

There are some brilliant, practical insights in this one. My biggest takeaways? Trust is built far beyond credentials, listening is your superpower, and in a world of AI and automation, genuine human connection is only becoming more valuable.

You can connect with Charles H Green here:
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/charleshgreen
Website: http://trustedadvisor.com
Trusted Advisor test: https://trustedadvisor.com/build-trust/how-trustworthy-are-you

If you’d like to stay up to date with the latest thinking, tools and trends in account management, you can sign up for my weekly newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>trust, marketing, trusted adviser, AI and automation</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Win the room: How to prep for presentations, with Martin Barnes</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/mn4xr27n-win-the-room-how-to-prep-for-presentations-with-martin-barnes</link>
      <itunes:title>Win the room: How to prep for presentations, with Martin Barnes</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>159</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">x06lp5j0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 159. If you’ve ever walked into a client meeting (or a pitch… or a QBR… or onto a stage) and thought, “I’ve got so much to cover - how do I say it without losing people?” - you’re going to love this one.

I'm joined by Martin Barnes, Founder of 8 Seconds 2 Connect and Leadership Communication expert. 
Martin help leaders communicate at the moments that matter. When a big idea needs to land, shift a room, or spark momentum. His background spans 25 years in design, advertising, and film across the UK and China. He's pitched to Hollywood producers, coached C-suite teams at Mercedes, ByteDance, VW, and Cartier, and helped founders raise millions and step onto TEDx stages.

In this episode, Martin and I talk about why stories build trust faster than “look how much I know” - and how to share your expertise without sounding like you’re selling, name-dropping, or talking about yourself too much.

We also get into the “data dump” problem: what to do when you’ve got loads of information, but you want the room to actually listen. And Martin shares a really practical way to prepare for presentations, especially if you get nervous, using voice notes and repetition so it feels less scary and more familiar.

You can connect with Martin here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinbarnespresentations/

If you’d like to be kept updated with shifts in the agency world as they relate to the account management role, or you’d like to speak to me about client retention and growth training options,  head to https://www.accountmanagementskills.com
You can also sign up to my newsletter there, and you’ll find the AI readiness quiz too.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 159. If you’ve ever walked into a client meeting (or a pitch… or a QBR… or onto a stage) and thought, “I’ve got so much to cover - how do I say it without losing people?” - you’re going to love this one.<br><br>I'm joined by Martin Barnes, Founder of 8 Seconds 2 Connect and Leadership Communication expert.&nbsp;<br>Martin help leaders communicate at the moments that matter. When a big idea needs to land, shift a room, or spark momentum. His background spans 25 years in design, advertising, and film across the UK and China. He's pitched to Hollywood producers, coached C-suite teams at Mercedes, ByteDance, VW, and Cartier, and helped founders raise millions and step onto TEDx stages.<br><br>In this episode, Martin and I talk about why stories build trust faster than “look how much I know” - and how to share your expertise without sounding like you’re selling, name-dropping, or talking about yourself too much.<br><br>We also get into the “data dump” problem: what to do when you’ve got loads of information, but you want the room to actually listen. And Martin shares a really practical way to prepare for presentations, especially if you get nervous, using voice notes and repetition so it feels less scary and more familiar.<br><br>You can connect with Martin here:<br>https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinbarnespresentations/<br><br>If you’d like to be kept updated with shifts in the agency world as they relate to the account management role, or you’d like to speak to me about client retention and growth training options,&nbsp; head to https://www.accountmanagementskills.com<br>You can also sign up to my newsletter there, and you’ll find the AI readiness quiz too.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2026 18:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/84v456q8.mp3" length="62011997" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/63d8b200-212c-11f1-89ea-d52062bc8545/63d8b450-212c-11f1-bf78-c9e7e361314e.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3100</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 159. If you’ve ever walked into a client meeting (or a pitch… or a QBR… or onto a stage) and thought, “I’ve got so much to cover - how do I say it without losing people?” - you’re going to love this one.

I'm joined by Martin Barnes, Founder of 8 Seconds 2 Connect and Leadership Communication expert. 
Martin help leaders communicate at the moments that matter. When a big idea needs to land, shift a room, or spark momentum. His background spans 25 years in design, advertising, and film across the UK and China. He's pitched to Hollywood producers, coached C-suite teams at Mercedes, ByteDance, VW, and Cartier, and helped founders raise millions and step onto TEDx stages.

In this episode, Martin and I talk about why stories build trust faster than “look how much I know” - and how to share your expertise without sounding like you’re selling, name-dropping, or talking about yourself too much.

We also get into the “data dump” problem: what to do when you’ve got loads of information, but you want the room to actually listen. And Martin shares a really practical way to prepare for presentations, especially if you get nervous, using voice notes and repetition so it feels less scary and more familiar.

You can connect with Martin here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinbarnespresentations/

If you’d like to be kept updated with shifts in the agency world as they relate to the account management role, or you’d like to speak to me about client retention and growth training options,  head to https://www.accountmanagementskills.com
You can also sign up to my newsletter there, and you’ll find the AI readiness quiz too.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 159. If you’ve ever walked into a client meeting (or a pitch… or a QBR… or onto a stage) and thought, “I’ve got so much to cover - how do I say it without losing people?” - you’re going to love this one.

I'm joined by Martin Barnes, Founder of 8 Seconds 2 Connect and Leadership Communication expert. 
Martin help leaders communicate at the moments that matter. When a big idea needs to land, shift a room, or spark momentum. His background spans 25 years in design, advertising, and film across the UK and China. He's pitched to Hollywood producers, coached C-suite teams at Mercedes, ByteDance, VW, and Cartier, and helped founders raise millions and step onto TEDx stages.

In this episode, Martin and I talk about why stories build trust faster than “look how much I know” - and how to share your expertise without sounding like you’re selling, name-dropping, or talking about yourself too much.

We also get into the “data dump” problem: what to do when you’ve got loads of information, but you want the room to actually listen. And Martin shares a really practical way to prepare for presentations, especially if you get nervous, using voice notes and repetition so it feels less scary and more familiar.

You can connect with Martin here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinbarnespresentations/

If you’d like to be kept updated with shifts in the agency world as they relate to the account management role, or you’d like to speak to me about client retention and growth training options,  head to https://www.accountmanagementskills.com
You can also sign up to my newsletter there, and you’ll find the AI readiness quiz too.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>presentations, public speaking, pitching</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Why the agency model is in decline and how independents can win, with Michael Farmer</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/2n6167m8-why-the-agency-model-is-in-decline-and-how-independents-can-win-with-michael-farmer</link>
      <itunes:title>Why the agency model is in decline and how independents can win, with Michael Farmer</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>158</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">j0229m70</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 158. I’m joined again by Michael Farmer to unpack what’s really going on in the agency world right now - and what it means for you if you’re running an agency, leading clients, or working in account management.

Michael Farmer is Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Farmer &amp; Company LLC, a New York based strategy consulting firm for major advertisers and their creative and media agencies. He also serves as Professor of Branding and Integrated Communications at The City College of New York (CCNY). He's the author of Madison Avenue Manslaughter, an inside view of fee-cutting clients, profit-hungry owners and declining ad agencies (3rd Edition 2019), and Madison Avenue Makeover: the transformation of Huge and the redefinition of the ad agency business (2023). He has completed a new book, Madison Avenue Revisited, to be published in June 2026.

Here’s what we get into:

- Why Michael’s new book Madison Avenue Revisited is a sharper, more hard-hitting update on what’s driving agency decline — especially the impact of holding company decisions.

- What the current wave of M&amp;A and cost-cutting signals for agency capability, talent, and client outcomes - including the knock-on effects for senior experience in an AI era.

- Why independent agencies could be entering a genuine opportunity window — and how “productising” services and focusing on measurable growth can change the game.

- And a brilliant reframing for account managers: why you should stop thinking like a logistics coordinator and start operating like a management consultant to your clients.

It’s one of those episodes that really challenges how we think about the agency business model.
Here are a few key takeaways :

- Agency success can’t just be about delivering output cheaply — the real opportunity is in linking your work to client growth and outcomes.

- The industry’s talent shape is getting distorted: AI may remove more junior execution work, but it raises the need for experienced people who can direct, judge, and advise.
- Independent agencies have a chance to differentiate by being explicit about what they stand for — not “low cost,” but “we help you grow, and we’ll prove it.”
- And for account managers: you’ll be far more valuable when you bring data, insight, and a point of view — not just project updates and deadlines.

You can keep with Michael Farmer here:
http://linkedin.com/in/michaelfarmer
www.farmerandco.com

Madison Avenue Revisited: https://amzn.eu/d/07SX5rrI
Madison Avenue Makeover: https://amzn.eu/d/0je8R4FA
Madison Avenue Manslaughter: https://amzn.eu/d/09U5HbiN

If you’d like to be kept updated with shifts in the agency world as it relates to the account management role - or you’d like to talk to me about client retention and growth training options - head to my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

You can also sign up to my newsletter there so you don’t miss new episodes, mini-trainings, and what I’m seeing in the market.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 158. I’m joined again by Michael Farmer to unpack what’s really going on in the agency world right now - and what it means for you if you’re running an agency, leading clients, or working in account management.<br><br>Michael Farmer is Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Farmer &amp; Company LLC, a New York based strategy consulting firm for major advertisers and their creative and media agencies. He also serves as Professor of Branding and Integrated Communications at The City College of New York (CCNY). He's the author of Madison Avenue Manslaughter, an inside view of fee-cutting clients, profit-hungry owners and declining ad agencies (3rd Edition 2019), and Madison Avenue Makeover: the transformation of Huge and the redefinition of the ad agency business (2023). He has completed a new book, Madison Avenue Revisited, to be published in June 2026.<br><br>Here’s what we get into:<br><br>- Why Michael’s new book Madison Avenue Revisited is a sharper, more hard-hitting update on what’s driving agency decline — especially the impact of holding company decisions.<br><br>- What the current wave of M&amp;A and cost-cutting signals for agency capability, talent, and client outcomes - including the knock-on effects for senior experience in an AI era.<br><br>- Why independent agencies could be entering a genuine opportunity window — and how “productising” services and focusing on measurable growth can change the game.<br><br>- And a brilliant reframing for account managers: why you should stop thinking like a logistics coordinator and start operating like a management consultant to your clients.<br><br>It’s one of those episodes that really challenges how we think about the agency business model.<br>Here are a few key takeaways :<br><br>- Agency success can’t just be about delivering output cheaply — the real opportunity is in linking your work to client growth and outcomes.<br><br>- The industry’s talent shape is getting distorted: AI may remove more junior execution work, but it raises the need for experienced people who can direct, judge, and advise.<br>- Independent agencies have a chance to differentiate by being explicit about what they stand for — not “low cost,” but “we help you grow, and we’ll prove it.”<br>- And for account managers: you’ll be far more valuable when you bring data, insight, and a point of view — not just project updates and deadlines.<br><br>You can keep with Michael Farmer here:<br><a href="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://calendly.com/url?q%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Flinkedin.com%252Fin%252Fmichaelfarmer%26user_uuid%3DDGEEGAC4N23QJS6K%26stage%3D1%26hmac%3Dc9c28c12f71faa01e54253c8c7eaa99db138a45f026259d9e43f0e1334ac2c77&amp;sa=D&amp;source=calendar&amp;ust=1772547498050009&amp;usg=AOvVaw3ALFE1UfawXRcVow-nB1a5">http://linkedin.com/in/michaelfarmer</a><br><a href="https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.farmerandco.com&amp;sa=D&amp;source=calendar&amp;ust=1772547498050009&amp;usg=AOvVaw1-yMJtM_kKaRjHBu7K7M3O">www.farmerandco.com</a><br><br>Madison Avenue Revisited: https://amzn.eu/d/07SX5rrI<br>Madison Avenue Makeover: https://amzn.eu/d/0je8R4FA<br>Madison Avenue Manslaughter: https://amzn.eu/d/09U5HbiN<br><br>If you’d like to be kept updated with shifts in the agency world as it relates to the account management role - or you’d like to talk to me about client retention and growth training options - head to my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com<br><br>You can also sign up to my newsletter there so you don’t miss new episodes, mini-trainings, and what I’m seeing in the market.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2026 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/wk47l728.mp3" length="62982708" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/0f9fc1e0-1322-11f1-b287-098825d1fa7b/0f9fc360-1322-11f1-8635-055499683eef.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3148</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 158. I’m joined again by Michael Farmer to unpack what’s really going on in the agency world right now - and what it means for you if you’re running an agency, leading clients, or working in account management.

Michael Farmer is Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Farmer &amp; Company LLC, a New York based strategy consulting firm for major advertisers and their creative and media agencies. He also serves as Professor of Branding and Integrated Communications at The City College of New York (CCNY). He's the author of Madison Avenue Manslaughter, an inside view of fee-cutting clients, profit-hungry owners and declining ad agencies (3rd Edition 2019), and Madison Avenue Makeover: the transformation of Huge and the redefinition of the ad agency business (2023). He has completed a new book, Madison Avenue Revisited, to be published in June 2026.

Here’s what we get into:

- Why Michael’s new book Madison Avenue Revisited is a sharper, more hard-hitting update on what’s driving agency decline — especially the impact of holding company decisions.

- What the current wave of M&amp;A and cost-cutting signals for agency capability, talent, and client outcomes - including the knock-on effects for senior experience in an AI era.

- Why independent agencies could be entering a genuine opportunity window — and how “productising” services and focusing on measurable growth can change the game.

- And a brilliant reframing for account managers: why you should stop thinking like a logistics coordinator and start operating like a management consultant to your clients.

It’s one of those episodes that really challenges how we think about the agency business model.
Here are a few key takeaways :

- Agency success can’t just be about delivering output cheaply — the real opportunity is in linking your work to client growth and outcomes.

- The industry’s talent shape is getting distorted: AI may remove more junior execution work, but it raises the need for experienced people who can direct, judge, and advise.
- Independent agencies have a chance to differentiate by being explicit about what they stand for — not “low cost,” but “we help you grow, and we’ll prove it.”
- And for account managers: you’ll be far more valuable when you bring data, insight, and a point of view — not just project updates and deadlines.

You can keep with Michael Farmer here:
http://linkedin.com/in/michaelfarmer
www.farmerandco.com

Madison Avenue Revisited: https://amzn.eu/d/07SX5rrI
Madison Avenue Makeover: https://amzn.eu/d/0je8R4FA
Madison Avenue Manslaughter: https://amzn.eu/d/09U5HbiN

If you’d like to be kept updated with shifts in the agency world as it relates to the account management role - or you’d like to talk to me about client retention and growth training options - head to my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

You can also sign up to my newsletter there so you don’t miss new episodes, mini-trainings, and what I’m seeing in the market.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 158. I’m joined again by Michael Farmer to unpack what’s really going on in the agency world right now - and what it means for you if you’re running an agency, leading clients, or working in account management.

Michael Farmer is Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Farmer &amp; Company LLC, a New York based strategy consulting firm for major advertisers and their creative and media agencies. He also serves as Professor of Branding and Integrated Communications at The City College of New York (CCNY). He's the author of Madison Avenue Manslaughter, an inside view of fee-cutting clients, profit-hungry owners and declining ad agencies (3rd Edition 2019), and Madison Avenue Makeover: the transformation of Huge and the redefinition of the ad agency business (2023). He has completed a new book, Madison Avenue Revisited, to be published in June 2026.

Here’s what we get into:

- Why Michael’s new book Madison Avenue Revisited is a sharper, more hard-hitting update on what’s driving agency decline — especially the impact of holding company decisions.

- What the current wave of M&amp;A and cost-cutting signals for agency capability, talent, and client outcomes - including the knock-on effects for senior experience in an AI era.

- Why independent agencies could be entering a genuine opportunity window — and how “productising” services and focusing on measurable growth can change the game.

- And a brilliant reframing for account managers: why you should stop thinking like a logistics coordinator and start operating like a management consultant to your clients.

It’s one of those episodes that really challenges how we think about the agency business model.
Here are a few key takeaways :

- Agency success can’t just be about delivering output cheaply — the real opportunity is in linking your work to client growth and outcomes.

- The industry’s talent shape is getting distorted: AI may remove more junior execution work, but it raises the need for experienced people who can direct, judge, and advise.
- Independent agencies have a chance to differentiate by being explicit about what they stand for — not “low cost,” but “we help you grow, and we’ll prove it.”
- And for account managers: you’ll be far more valuable when you bring data, insight, and a point of view — not just project updates and deadlines.

You can keep with Michael Farmer here:
http://linkedin.com/in/michaelfarmer
www.farmerandco.com

Madison Avenue Revisited: https://amzn.eu/d/07SX5rrI
Madison Avenue Makeover: https://amzn.eu/d/0je8R4FA
Madison Avenue Manslaughter: https://amzn.eu/d/09U5HbiN

If you’d like to be kept updated with shifts in the agency world as it relates to the account management role - or you’d like to talk to me about client retention and growth training options - head to my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

You can also sign up to my newsletter there so you don’t miss new episodes, mini-trainings, and what I’m seeing in the market.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>AI Adoption in Pharma &amp; MedComms: 2026 update, with Jonathan Gwillim &amp; Kate Eversole</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/xnymp1xn-ai-adoption-in-pharma-medcomms-2026-update-with-jonathan-gwillim-kate-eversole</link>
      <itunes:title>AI Adoption in Pharma &amp; MedComms: 2026 update, with Jonathan Gwillim &amp; Kate Eversole</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>157</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">l14njl31</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 157. 
I've got two returning guests to the show, Kate Eversole (Event Director) and John Gwillim (Co-Founder) from PharmaBrands. They provide world-class education, support, inspiration and experiences for one of the most challenging and important communication environments there is, healthcare marketing. They bring pharma teams and their agencies together through events and meetups designed specifically to help people thrive in the age of AI. 
In this episode, we talk about the shift from last year’s podcast episode where we were talking all about prompting, to what's relevant in March 2026, the big focus on AI agents. 

Kate and Jonathan also share what's happening inside pharma with approved tools like Microsoft Copilot and Gemini and why agencies need to align with the client's approved tool stack. 

We also talk about the reality of governance versus shadow AI: employees using AI without a company license. And why compliance and behaviour don't always match. 

We cover more about PharmaBrands ‘Age of AI, Europe’ event, taking place in London on 10th March 2026. 

If you're listening after the event, don't worry because Kate and Jon shared so many insights into the realities of what's happening right now with the pharmaceutical industry and medical communications when it comes to AI adoption.

You can connect here on LinkedIn: 
Kate Eversole - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kateeversole/
Jonathan Gwillim - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jongwillim/

Resources mentioned:
PharmaBrands website - https://www.pharmabrands.ca/
Age of AI, Europe - event details and speakers - https://www.pharmabrands.ca/age-of-ai-europe-event-2026
Real Staffing Report - https://www.realstaffing.com/en-us/knowledge-hub/industry-insights/the-life-sciences-skills-crisis-shadow-ai-professional-migration-and-the-race-against-becoming-obsolete/

If you'd like to be kept updated with shifts in the agency world as it relates to the account management role, or perhaps you'd like to speak to me about client retention and growth training, please sign up for my newsletter. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 157.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><br>I've got two returning guests to the show, Kate Eversole (Event Director) and Jonathan Gwillim (Co-Founder) from PharmaBrands. They provide world-class education, support, inspiration and experiences for one of the most challenging and important communication environments there is, healthcare marketing. They bring pharma teams and their agencies together through events and meetups designed specifically to help people thrive in the age of AI.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><br>In this episode, we talk about the shift from <a href="https://crane-oboe-8e6s.squarespace.com/blog/how-genai-is-transforming-pharma-marketing-and-healthcare-communications-with-kate-eversole-and-jonathan-gwillim">last year’s podcast episode</a> where we were talking all about prompting, to what's relevant in March 2026, the big focus on AI agents.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><br>Kate and Jon also share what's happening inside pharma with approved tools like Microsoft Copilot and Gemini and why agencies need to align with the client's approved tool stack.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><br>We also talk about the reality of governance versus shadow AI: employees using AI without a company license. And why compliance and behaviour don't always match.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><br>We cover more about PharmaBrands ‘Age of AI, Europe’ event, taking place in London on 10th March 2026.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><br>If you're listening after the event, don't worry because Kate and Jon shared so many insights into the realities of what's happening right now with the pharmaceutical industry and medical communications when it comes to AI adoption.<br><br></div><div><br>You can connect here on LinkedIn:&nbsp;<br><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/kateeversole/">Kate Eversole</a><br><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jongwillim/">Jonathan Gwillim</a><br><br>Resources mentioned:<br><a href="https://www.pharmabrands.ca/">PharmaBrands website</a><br><br><a href="https://www.pharmabrands.ca/age-of-ai-europe-event-2026">Age of AI, Europe - event details and speakers</a><br><br><a href="https://www.realstaffing.com/en-us/knowledge-hub/industry-insights/the-life-sciences-skills-crisis-shadow-ai-professional-migration-and-the-race-against-becoming-obsolete/">Real Staffing Report</a><br><br>Sara Rodrigues, Associate Director, Medical Affairs, AI Champion, Vertex shared with PharmaBrands how Agents are now being deployed to answer product related queries. These Agents are trained exclusively on approved sources: Protocols, FAQs, Literature, Product Labels, etc. Sara shares how this solution was easy to build, safe to use, and saves her team a lot of time: https://youtu.be/_Rks3Awp-xE?si=u_Ta_VZ5QgepHMFt&amp;t=1797</div><div><br>If you'd like to be kept updated with shifts in the agency world as it relates to the account management role, or perhaps you'd like to speak to me about client retention and growth training, please <a href="https://crane-oboe-8e6s.squarespace.com/home">sign up</a> for my newsletter.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2026 13:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8nn75p38.mp3" length="69420846" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/9c317940-074d-11f1-98fb-cd74f7900204/9c317c80-074d-11f1-bf10-5b243ba02a14.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3470</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 157. 
I've got two returning guests to the show, Kate Eversole (Event Director) and John Gwillim (Co-Founder) from PharmaBrands. They provide world-class education, support, inspiration and experiences for one of the most challenging and important communication environments there is, healthcare marketing. They bring pharma teams and their agencies together through events and meetups designed specifically to help people thrive in the age of AI. 
In this episode, we talk about the shift from last year’s podcast episode where we were talking all about prompting, to what's relevant in March 2026, the big focus on AI agents. 

Kate and Jonathan also share what's happening inside pharma with approved tools like Microsoft Copilot and Gemini and why agencies need to align with the client's approved tool stack. 

We also talk about the reality of governance versus shadow AI: employees using AI without a company license. And why compliance and behaviour don't always match. 

We cover more about PharmaBrands ‘Age of AI, Europe’ event, taking place in London on 10th March 2026. 

If you're listening after the event, don't worry because Kate and Jon shared so many insights into the realities of what's happening right now with the pharmaceutical industry and medical communications when it comes to AI adoption.

You can connect here on LinkedIn: 
Kate Eversole - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kateeversole/
Jonathan Gwillim - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jongwillim/

Resources mentioned:
PharmaBrands website - https://www.pharmabrands.ca/
Age of AI, Europe - event details and speakers - https://www.pharmabrands.ca/age-of-ai-europe-event-2026
Real Staffing Report - https://www.realstaffing.com/en-us/knowledge-hub/industry-insights/the-life-sciences-skills-crisis-shadow-ai-professional-migration-and-the-race-against-becoming-obsolete/

If you'd like to be kept updated with shifts in the agency world as it relates to the account management role, or perhaps you'd like to speak to me about client retention and growth training, please sign up for my newsletter. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 157. 
I've got two returning guests to the show, Kate Eversole (Event Director) and John Gwillim (Co-Founder) from PharmaBrands. They provide world-class education, support, inspiration and experiences for one of the most challenging and important communication environments there is, healthcare marketing. They bring pharma teams and their agencies together through events and meetups designed specifically to help people thrive in the age of AI. 
In this episode, we talk about the shift from last year’s podcast episode where we were talking all about prompting, to what's relevant in March 2026, the big focus on AI agents. 

Kate and Jonathan also share what's happening inside pharma with approved tools like Microsoft Copilot and Gemini and why agencies need to align with the client's approved tool stack. 

We also talk about the reality of governance versus shadow AI: employees using AI without a company license. And why compliance and behaviour don't always match. 

We cover more about PharmaBrands ‘Age of AI, Europe’ event, taking place in London on 10th March 2026. 

If you're listening after the event, don't worry because Kate and Jon shared so many insights into the realities of what's happening right now with the pharmaceutical industry and medical communications when it comes to AI adoption.

You can connect here on LinkedIn: 
Kate Eversole - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kateeversole/
Jonathan Gwillim - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jongwillim/

Resources mentioned:
PharmaBrands website - https://www.pharmabrands.ca/
Age of AI, Europe - event details and speakers - https://www.pharmabrands.ca/age-of-ai-europe-event-2026
Real Staffing Report - https://www.realstaffing.com/en-us/knowledge-hub/industry-insights/the-life-sciences-skills-crisis-shadow-ai-professional-migration-and-the-race-against-becoming-obsolete/

If you'd like to be kept updated with shifts in the agency world as it relates to the account management role, or perhaps you'd like to speak to me about client retention and growth training, please sign up for my newsletter. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to build an exit-ready agency: Lessons &amp; practical tips, with Gavin Bell</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/mn4xv66n-how-to-build-an-exit-ready-agency-lessons-practical-tips-with-gavin-bell</link>
      <itunes:title>How to build an exit-ready agency: Lessons &amp; practical tips, with Gavin Bell</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>156</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">x06l4kk0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 156. This episode is especially useful if you're an agency owner thinking about an exit, or perhaps you're an account lead who wants to help your agency become more sellable and less dependent on one person. 

Gavin Bell is a highly sought-after keynote speaker and award-winning entrepreneur, known for delivering talks that are positive, engaging and packed with real-world lessons. Recognised as one of the UK’s most candid voices on what it really takes to build and exit a business, Gavin combines first-hand entrepreneurial experience with proven frameworks audiences can use immediately.

In this conversation, Gavin and I dig into what it really takes to build an exit ready agency. 

- how he created a predictable growth engine by marketing his own agency
- why recurring revenue and clear productized offer made the business more attractive
- and the systems and SOP mindset that kept delivery consistent and client experience tight. 

We also get into the realities of selling from keeping it quiet to surviving due diligence and choosing a buyer based on cultural fit, not just the numbers. 
Some key takeaways for me were treating your agency like a product, documenting the client journey, building checklists and fixing the bugs in your process every time an issue comes up. And staying on the front foot with clients, proactive expectation setting, consistent reporting rhythms and QBRs that focus not on what's happened, but also business outcomes and the future.

You can connect with Gavin Bell in various ways:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrgavinbell/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mrgavinbell/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MrGavinBell/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mrgavinbell
X/Twitter: https://x.com/mrgavinbell
YouTube: https://youtube.com/mrgavinbell
Website: https://mrgavinbell.com

If you'd like to be kept updated with shifts in the agency world as it relates to the account management role, or perhaps you'd like to speak to me about client retention and growth training, please visit https://www.accountmanagementskills.com where you can also sign up for my newsletter.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 156. This episode is especially useful if you're an agency owner thinking about an exit, or perhaps you're an account lead who wants to help your agency become more sellable and less dependent on one person.&nbsp;<br><br>Gavin Bell is a highly sought-after keynote speaker and award-winning entrepreneur, known for delivering talks that are positive, engaging and packed with real-world lessons. Recognised as one of the UK’s most candid voices on what it really takes to build and exit a business, Gavin combines first-hand entrepreneurial experience with proven frameworks audiences can use immediately.<br><br>In this conversation, Gavin and I dig into what it really takes to build an exit ready agency.&nbsp;<br><br>- how he created a predictable growth engine by marketing his own agency<br><br>- why recurring revenue and clear productized offer made the business more attractive<br><br>- and the systems and SOP mindset that kept delivery consistent and client experience tight.&nbsp;<br><br>We also get into the realities of selling from keeping it quiet to surviving due diligence and choosing a buyer based on cultural fit, not just the numbers.&nbsp;<br><br>Some key takeaways for me were treating your agency like a product, documenting the client journey, building checklists and fixing the bugs in your process every time an issue comes up. And staying on the front foot with clients, proactive expectation setting, consistent reporting rhythms and QBRs that focus not on what's happened, but also business outcomes and the future.<br><br>You can connect with Gavin Bell in various ways:<br>LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrgavinbell/<br>Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mrgavinbell/<br>Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MrGavinBell/<br>TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mrgavinbell<br>X/Twitter: https://x.com/mrgavinbell<br>YouTube: https://youtube.com/mrgavinbell<br>Website: https://mrgavinbell.com<br><br>If you'd like to be kept updated with shifts in the agency world as it relates to the account management role, or perhaps you'd like to speak to me about client retention and growth training, please visit https://www.accountmanagementskills.com where you can also sign up for my newsletter.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2026 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/wk47lyl8.mp3" length="62397042" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/19399d50-fdbc-11f0-9d6d-038615e8dda7/19399f80-fdbc-11f0-98d9-2967a2024268.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3119</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 156. This episode is especially useful if you're an agency owner thinking about an exit, or perhaps you're an account lead who wants to help your agency become more sellable and less dependent on one person. 

Gavin Bell is a highly sought-after keynote speaker and award-winning entrepreneur, known for delivering talks that are positive, engaging and packed with real-world lessons. Recognised as one of the UK’s most candid voices on what it really takes to build and exit a business, Gavin combines first-hand entrepreneurial experience with proven frameworks audiences can use immediately.

In this conversation, Gavin and I dig into what it really takes to build an exit ready agency. 

- how he created a predictable growth engine by marketing his own agency
- why recurring revenue and clear productized offer made the business more attractive
- and the systems and SOP mindset that kept delivery consistent and client experience tight. 

We also get into the realities of selling from keeping it quiet to surviving due diligence and choosing a buyer based on cultural fit, not just the numbers. 
Some key takeaways for me were treating your agency like a product, documenting the client journey, building checklists and fixing the bugs in your process every time an issue comes up. And staying on the front foot with clients, proactive expectation setting, consistent reporting rhythms and QBRs that focus not on what's happened, but also business outcomes and the future.

You can connect with Gavin Bell in various ways:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrgavinbell/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mrgavinbell/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MrGavinBell/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mrgavinbell
X/Twitter: https://x.com/mrgavinbell
YouTube: https://youtube.com/mrgavinbell
Website: https://mrgavinbell.com

If you'd like to be kept updated with shifts in the agency world as it relates to the account management role, or perhaps you'd like to speak to me about client retention and growth training, please visit https://www.accountmanagementskills.com where you can also sign up for my newsletter.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 156. This episode is especially useful if you're an agency owner thinking about an exit, or perhaps you're an account lead who wants to help your agency become more sellable and less dependent on one person. 

Gavin Bell is a highly sought-after keynote speaker and award-winning entrepreneur, known for delivering talks that are positive, engaging and packed with real-world lessons. Recognised as one of the UK’s most candid voices on what it really takes to build and exit a business, Gavin combines first-hand entrepreneurial experience with proven frameworks audiences can use immediately.

In this conversation, Gavin and I dig into what it really takes to build an exit ready agency. 

- how he created a predictable growth engine by marketing his own agency
- why recurring revenue and clear productized offer made the business more attractive
- and the systems and SOP mindset that kept delivery consistent and client experience tight. 

We also get into the realities of selling from keeping it quiet to surviving due diligence and choosing a buyer based on cultural fit, not just the numbers. 
Some key takeaways for me were treating your agency like a product, documenting the client journey, building checklists and fixing the bugs in your process every time an issue comes up. And staying on the front foot with clients, proactive expectation setting, consistent reporting rhythms and QBRs that focus not on what's happened, but also business outcomes and the future.

You can connect with Gavin Bell in various ways:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrgavinbell/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mrgavinbell/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MrGavinBell/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mrgavinbell
X/Twitter: https://x.com/mrgavinbell
YouTube: https://youtube.com/mrgavinbell
Website: https://mrgavinbell.com

If you'd like to be kept updated with shifts in the agency world as it relates to the account management role, or perhaps you'd like to speak to me about client retention and growth training, please visit https://www.accountmanagementskills.com where you can also sign up for my newsletter.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to reduce operational chaos in your agency, with Melanie Chandruang</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/18209x08-how-to-reduce-operational-chaos-in-your-agency-with-melanie-chandruang</link>
      <itunes:title>How to reduce operational chaos in your agency, with Melanie Chandruang</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>155</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">209q8lq0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 155.  We’re looking at the agency’s engine room - operations. And how getting the fundamentals right can improve profitability, reduce chaos and set you up for better use of automation and AI.

I’m joined by Melanie Chandruang, founder of WeConsult and a Strategic Operations Partner for creative agencies. With over 15 years in the industry, she helps agency owners boost profits, streamline operations, and move big initiatives forward so they can focus on growth and what matters most.

Here’s what we cover:
- Why “right people in the right seats” is still the number one operational issue - especially as services evolve fast
- The key financial ratios Melanie uses to spot operational inefficiencies (and what “healthy” can look like)
- The debate on hybrid AM/PM roles vs splitting the roles — and how to think about affordability and utilisation
- Why most agencies aren’t “AI-first” yet and what needs to be in place before AI can genuinely improve workflows
- Melanie’s practical 90-day focus areas for a 20-person agency that wants more profit and less chaos

You can connect with Melanie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melaniechandruang/
Or visit the website: https://weconsult.io/

If you don’t want to miss future podcast episodes, mini-trainings, and the ideas I’m sharing each week on client retention and account growth in agencies, make sure you’re on my newsletter list: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 155.&nbsp; We’re looking at the agency’s engine room - operations. And how getting the fundamentals right can improve profitability, reduce chaos and set you up for better use of automation and AI.<br><br>I’m joined by Melanie Chandruang, founder of WeConsult and a Strategic Operations Partner for creative agencies. With over 15 years in the industry, she helps agency owners boost profits, streamline operations, and move big initiatives forward so they can focus on growth and what matters most.<br><br>Here’s what we cover:<br>- Why “right people in the right seats” is still the number one operational issue - especially as services evolve fast<br>- The key financial ratios Melanie uses to spot operational inefficiencies (and what “healthy” can look like)<br>- The debate on hybrid AM/PM roles vs splitting the roles — and how to think about affordability and utilisation<br>- Why most agencies aren’t “AI-first” yet and what needs to be in place before AI can genuinely improve workflows<br>- Melanie’s practical 90-day focus areas for a 20-person agency that wants more profit and less chaos<br><br>You can connect with Melanie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melaniechandruang/<br>Or visit the website: https://weconsult.io/<br><br>If you don’t want to miss future podcast episodes, mini-trainings, and the ideas I’m sharing each week on client retention and account growth in agencies, make sure you’re on my newsletter list: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2026 10:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8nn75918.mp3" length="47062642" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/90e932f0-f2c9-11f0-ae54-670d5a07a754/90e93600-f2c9-11f0-9125-6719793e4e28.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2352</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 155.  We’re looking at the agency’s engine room - operations. And how getting the fundamentals right can improve profitability, reduce chaos and set you up for better use of automation and AI.

I’m joined by Melanie Chandruang, founder of WeConsult and a Strategic Operations Partner for creative agencies. With over 15 years in the industry, she helps agency owners boost profits, streamline operations, and move big initiatives forward so they can focus on growth and what matters most.

Here’s what we cover:
- Why “right people in the right seats” is still the number one operational issue - especially as services evolve fast
- The key financial ratios Melanie uses to spot operational inefficiencies (and what “healthy” can look like)
- The debate on hybrid AM/PM roles vs splitting the roles — and how to think about affordability and utilisation
- Why most agencies aren’t “AI-first” yet and what needs to be in place before AI can genuinely improve workflows
- Melanie’s practical 90-day focus areas for a 20-person agency that wants more profit and less chaos

You can connect with Melanie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melaniechandruang/
Or visit the website: https://weconsult.io/

If you don’t want to miss future podcast episodes, mini-trainings, and the ideas I’m sharing each week on client retention and account growth in agencies, make sure you’re on my newsletter list: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 155.  We’re looking at the agency’s engine room - operations. And how getting the fundamentals right can improve profitability, reduce chaos and set you up for better use of automation and AI.

I’m joined by Melanie Chandruang, founder of WeConsult and a Strategic Operations Partner for creative agencies. With over 15 years in the industry, she helps agency owners boost profits, streamline operations, and move big initiatives forward so they can focus on growth and what matters most.

Here’s what we cover:
- Why “right people in the right seats” is still the number one operational issue - especially as services evolve fast
- The key financial ratios Melanie uses to spot operational inefficiencies (and what “healthy” can look like)
- The debate on hybrid AM/PM roles vs splitting the roles — and how to think about affordability and utilisation
- Why most agencies aren’t “AI-first” yet and what needs to be in place before AI can genuinely improve workflows
- Melanie’s practical 90-day focus areas for a 20-person agency that wants more profit and less chaos

You can connect with Melanie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melaniechandruang/
Or visit the website: https://weconsult.io/

If you don’t want to miss future podcast episodes, mini-trainings, and the ideas I’m sharing each week on client retention and account growth in agencies, make sure you’re on my newsletter list: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>strategic operations, AI in agency operations, hybrid PM/AM</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to build trust with Procurement, with Jessica Bowler</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/vnw47968-how-to-build-trust-with-procurement-with-jessica-bowler</link>
      <itunes:title>How to build trust with Procurement, with Jessica Bowler</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>154</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">81x7qrp0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 154. This chat will be particularly interesting for you if you’re an agency owner or account manager who has to work with marketing procurement (especially in pharma / biotech industry).

My guest is Marketing Procurement Consultant, Jessica Bowler. Jess has deep expertise in end-to-end pharmaceutical procurement processes, including supplier qualification, contract negotiation, risk management and vendor management. She has worked with large pharma for almost 24 years and spent the majority of that time in commercial/marketing procurement. Jess currently works on consulting roles within pharma and biotech where she can assist organizations with different procurement operations. 

Here's what we covered in our chat:
- What to do if your experience of procurement has been more transactional than you’d like.
- a simple 10 minute conversation you can initiate to strengthen the relationship
- a check list of what to include in a review meeting with Procurement
- how procurement is thinking about AI and pricing transparency right now

Jess shares a lot of valuable insight, tips and steps to set you up for success dealing with procurement, I hope it gives you a few practical ways to work with procurement as they are, whether they’re relationship-led or more transactional.

Do follow Jess on LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/jessica-bowler-76bbb34&amp;sa

If you’d like weekly tips to build your account management skills, news on agency trends, notifications of upcoming podcast episodes, and any mini trainings I’m running, sign up to my newsletter at Account Management Skills: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 154. This chat will be particularly interesting for you if you’re an agency owner or account manager who has to work with marketing procurement (especially in pharma / biotech industry).<br><br>My guest is Marketing Procurement Consultant, Jessica Bowler. Jess has deep expertise in end-to-end pharmaceutical procurement processes, including supplier qualification, contract negotiation, risk management and vendor management. She has worked with large pharma for almost 24 years and spent the majority of that time in commercial/marketing procurement. Jess currently works on consulting roles within pharma and biotech where she can assist organizations with different procurement operations.&nbsp;<br><br>Here's what we covered in our chat:<br>- What to do if your experience of procurement has been more transactional than you’d like.<br>- a simple 10 minute conversation you can initiate to strengthen the relationship<br>- a check list of what to include in a review meeting with Procurement<br>- how procurement is thinking about AI and pricing transparency right now<br><br>Jess shares a lot of valuable insight, tips and steps to set you up for success dealing with procurement, I hope it gives you a few practical ways to work with procurement as they are, whether they’re relationship-led or more transactional.<br><br>Do follow Jess on LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/jessica-bowler-76bbb34&amp;sa<br><br>If you’d like weekly tips to build your account management skills, news on agency trends, notifications of upcoming podcast episodes, and any mini trainings I’m running, sign up to my newsletter at Account Management Skills: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2026 08:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/wk47l278.mp3" length="57371606" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/1d81a8c0-ea28-11f0-92d0-bbbde39ca0ac/1d81ab30-ea28-11f0-9a22-83c200fc15a4.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2868</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 154. This chat will be particularly interesting for you if you’re an agency owner or account manager who has to work with marketing procurement (especially in pharma / biotech industry).

My guest is Marketing Procurement Consultant, Jessica Bowler. Jess has deep expertise in end-to-end pharmaceutical procurement processes, including supplier qualification, contract negotiation, risk management and vendor management. She has worked with large pharma for almost 24 years and spent the majority of that time in commercial/marketing procurement. Jess currently works on consulting roles within pharma and biotech where she can assist organizations with different procurement operations. 

Here's what we covered in our chat:
- What to do if your experience of procurement has been more transactional than you’d like.
- a simple 10 minute conversation you can initiate to strengthen the relationship
- a check list of what to include in a review meeting with Procurement
- how procurement is thinking about AI and pricing transparency right now

Jess shares a lot of valuable insight, tips and steps to set you up for success dealing with procurement, I hope it gives you a few practical ways to work with procurement as they are, whether they’re relationship-led or more transactional.

Do follow Jess on LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/jessica-bowler-76bbb34&amp;sa

If you’d like weekly tips to build your account management skills, news on agency trends, notifications of upcoming podcast episodes, and any mini trainings I’m running, sign up to my newsletter at Account Management Skills: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 154. This chat will be particularly interesting for you if you’re an agency owner or account manager who has to work with marketing procurement (especially in pharma / biotech industry).

My guest is Marketing Procurement Consultant, Jessica Bowler. Jess has deep expertise in end-to-end pharmaceutical procurement processes, including supplier qualification, contract negotiation, risk management and vendor management. She has worked with large pharma for almost 24 years and spent the majority of that time in commercial/marketing procurement. Jess currently works on consulting roles within pharma and biotech where she can assist organizations with different procurement operations. 

Here's what we covered in our chat:
- What to do if your experience of procurement has been more transactional than you’d like.
- a simple 10 minute conversation you can initiate to strengthen the relationship
- a check list of what to include in a review meeting with Procurement
- how procurement is thinking about AI and pricing transparency right now

Jess shares a lot of valuable insight, tips and steps to set you up for success dealing with procurement, I hope it gives you a few practical ways to work with procurement as they are, whether they’re relationship-led or more transactional.

Do follow Jess on LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/jessica-bowler-76bbb34&amp;sa

If you’d like weekly tips to build your account management skills, news on agency trends, notifications of upcoming podcast episodes, and any mini trainings I’m running, sign up to my newsletter at Account Management Skills: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>pharma, biotech, procurement, marketing, risk management</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>AI-Enabled Workflows for Enterprise Brands, with Richard Coope</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/1npvmm3n-ai-enabled-workflows-for-enterprise-brands-with-richard-coope</link>
      <itunes:title>AI-Enabled Workflows for Enterprise Brands, with Richard Coope</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>153</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">z0r3ppx1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 153. I’m joined by Richard Coope from Brightful, who helps large, complex organisations fix the brand, digital and cultural bottlenecks that block content and slow down campaigns, using AI-enabled workflows and marketing automation.

Richard is an accomplished Change Lead with experience in leading global organisational and IT transformations. He has 27 years of experience helping complex organisations solve their brand, digital and cultural problems, including leading global digital and Content Supply Chain transformations of Shell, GSK, PMI. He specialises in supporting global Martech platform adoption and making workflows and SOPs more efficient through AI and automation. 

In this episode, we cover:
- Why enterprise content operations are so messy, and how that impacts agencies
- Where content typically gets stuck across approvals, rights, DAMs and governance
- How AI can either amplify chaos or create real operational flow
- The changing role of senior client stakeholders in AI-enabled marketing
- Practical ways agencies can partner with specialists like Brightful to protect and grow key accounts

If you’d like to connect with Richard Coope or learn more about Brightful, visit: http://wearebrightful.com/
or find him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardcoope/

Content Advisory Board: https://wearebrightful.com/about/content-advisory-board/
Content Healthcheck: https://brightful-content-flow.scoreapp.com/

If you want to assess how ready you are to use AI to retain and grow your existing clients, you can take the short AI readiness quiz on my website here:
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/ai-readiness-quiz

 You can also subscribe to my weekly newsletter, where I share new episodes, short trainings and practical ideas for agency account managers.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 153. I’m joined by Richard Coope from Brightful, who helps large, complex organisations fix the brand, digital and cultural bottlenecks that block content and slow down campaigns, using AI-enabled workflows and marketing automation.<br><br>Richard is an accomplished Change Lead with experience in leading global organisational and IT transformations. He has 27 years of experience helping complex organisations solve their brand, digital and cultural problems, including leading global digital and Content Supply Chain transformations of Shell, GSK, PMI. He specialises in supporting global Martech platform adoption and making workflows and SOPs more efficient through AI and automation.&nbsp;<br><br>In this episode, we cover:<br>- Why enterprise content operations are so messy, and how that impacts agencies<br>- Where content typically gets stuck across approvals, rights, DAMs and governance<br>- How AI can either amplify chaos or create real operational flow<br>- The changing role of senior client stakeholders in AI-enabled marketing<br>- Practical ways agencies can partner with specialists like Brightful to protect and grow key accounts<br><br>If you’d like to connect with Richard Coope or learn more about Brightful, visit: http://wearebrightful.com/<br>or find him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardcoope/<br><br>Content Advisory Board: https://wearebrightful.com/about/content-advisory-board/<br>Content Healthcheck: https://brightful-content-flow.scoreapp.com/<br><br>If you want to assess how ready you are to use AI to retain and grow your existing clients, you can take the short AI readiness quiz on my website here:<br>https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/ai-readiness-quiz<br><br>&nbsp;You can also subscribe to my weekly newsletter, where I share new episodes, short trainings and practical ideas for agency account managers.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2025 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/853qjl98.mp3" length="48237630" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/1b06cb60-dcd1-11f0-aa6e-bdc712100615/1b06cd10-dcd1-11f0-a982-9b8e1d89082c.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2411</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 153. I’m joined by Richard Coope from Brightful, who helps large, complex organisations fix the brand, digital and cultural bottlenecks that block content and slow down campaigns, using AI-enabled workflows and marketing automation.

Richard is an accomplished Change Lead with experience in leading global organisational and IT transformations. He has 27 years of experience helping complex organisations solve their brand, digital and cultural problems, including leading global digital and Content Supply Chain transformations of Shell, GSK, PMI. He specialises in supporting global Martech platform adoption and making workflows and SOPs more efficient through AI and automation. 

In this episode, we cover:
- Why enterprise content operations are so messy, and how that impacts agencies
- Where content typically gets stuck across approvals, rights, DAMs and governance
- How AI can either amplify chaos or create real operational flow
- The changing role of senior client stakeholders in AI-enabled marketing
- Practical ways agencies can partner with specialists like Brightful to protect and grow key accounts

If you’d like to connect with Richard Coope or learn more about Brightful, visit: http://wearebrightful.com/
or find him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardcoope/

Content Advisory Board: https://wearebrightful.com/about/content-advisory-board/
Content Healthcheck: https://brightful-content-flow.scoreapp.com/

If you want to assess how ready you are to use AI to retain and grow your existing clients, you can take the short AI readiness quiz on my website here:
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/ai-readiness-quiz

 You can also subscribe to my weekly newsletter, where I share new episodes, short trainings and practical ideas for agency account managers.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 153. I’m joined by Richard Coope from Brightful, who helps large, complex organisations fix the brand, digital and cultural bottlenecks that block content and slow down campaigns, using AI-enabled workflows and marketing automation.

Richard is an accomplished Change Lead with experience in leading global organisational and IT transformations. He has 27 years of experience helping complex organisations solve their brand, digital and cultural problems, including leading global digital and Content Supply Chain transformations of Shell, GSK, PMI. He specialises in supporting global Martech platform adoption and making workflows and SOPs more efficient through AI and automation. 

In this episode, we cover:
- Why enterprise content operations are so messy, and how that impacts agencies
- Where content typically gets stuck across approvals, rights, DAMs and governance
- How AI can either amplify chaos or create real operational flow
- The changing role of senior client stakeholders in AI-enabled marketing
- Practical ways agencies can partner with specialists like Brightful to protect and grow key accounts

If you’d like to connect with Richard Coope or learn more about Brightful, visit: http://wearebrightful.com/
or find him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardcoope/

Content Advisory Board: https://wearebrightful.com/about/content-advisory-board/
Content Healthcheck: https://brightful-content-flow.scoreapp.com/

If you want to assess how ready you are to use AI to retain and grow your existing clients, you can take the short AI readiness quiz on my website here:
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/ai-readiness-quiz

 You can also subscribe to my weekly newsletter, where I share new episodes, short trainings and practical ideas for agency account managers.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>AI-enabled, marketing automation, creative agencies</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Now, Next and  Future of Agencies, with Spencer Gallagher</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/08j03yw8-the-now-next-and-future-of-agencies-with-spencer-gallagher</link>
      <itunes:title>The Now, Next and  Future of Agencies, with Spencer Gallagher</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>152</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">41pmjql0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 152. I’m chatting again with my go-to guru for the now, next and future of the agency business model, Spencer Gallagher. Spencer has relaunched Bluhalo with a renewed focus on helping agencies and businesses transform with AI. Bluhalo is a business for the next decade, focused on supporting B2B organisations across three core pillars: People, Technology, and Asset Growth.

In this conversation, we really dig into what transforming with AI means in practice for you as an agency leader or account manager.

Here’s what we cover:

- Why so many agency services have matured and what that means for your positioning and growth
- How Spencer thinks about the "now, next and future" of agencies in an AI-driven world
- Why founders and leaders need to reconnect with their creative side and carve out proper thinking space if they want to reinvent their business
- The cultural shift required to build high-agency, growth-mindset teams that actually embrace AI rather than resist it
- How AI is likely to reshape agency structures - from headcount and roles to pricing, automation and the types of services clients will value most
- Practical examples of how tools and no-code platforms have gone from clunky to powerful in a very short space of time, and what that means for your IP
- Advice for agency leaders who know they need to speed up their adoption of AI, but feel their team is low-energy or stuck in old ways of working
- Guidance for account managers whose leaders are dragging their heels on AI, including how to use real client feedback to influence from the middle
- What Spencer is seeing in the M&amp;A market for agencies, including what buyers now look for and why AI capability is increasingly on the checklist

Spencer has a rare mix of lived experience building and selling an agency, deep technical curiosity, and a very honest take on where agencies are kidding themselves about the future. I think you’ll come away with both a clearer sense of direction and some very practical ideas to take back to your team.

If you’d like to stay connected with Spencer's thinking, you can find him on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/spencergallagher/
and check out Bluhalo to see more of the work he’s doing to help agencies and businesses become truly AI-enabled. https://www.bluhalo.com/

And if you want to get a sense of where your own agency stands, you can assess your "AI readiness for client retention and growth" over on my website: 
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com
The quiz takes just a few minutes and you’ll receive a short report with suggestions for how you can start weaving AI into your client management workflow.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 152. I’m chatting again with my go-to guru for the now, next and future of the agency business model, Spencer Gallagher. Spencer has relaunched Bluhalo with a renewed focus on helping agencies and businesses transform with AI. Bluhalo is a business for the next decade, focused on supporting B2B organisations across three core pillars: People, Technology, and Asset Growth.<br><br>In this conversation, we really dig into what transforming with AI means in practice for you as an agency leader or account manager.<br><br>Here’s what we cover:<br><br>- Why so many agency services have matured and what that means for your positioning and growth<br>- How Spencer thinks about the "now, next and future" of agencies in an AI-driven world<br>- Why founders and leaders need to reconnect with their creative side and carve out proper thinking space if they want to reinvent their business<br>- The cultural shift required to build high-agency, growth-mindset teams that actually embrace AI rather than resist it<br>- How AI is likely to reshape agency structures - from headcount and roles to pricing, automation and the types of services clients will value most<br>- Practical examples of how tools and no-code platforms have gone from clunky to powerful in a very short space of time, and what that means for your IP<br>- Advice for agency leaders who know they need to speed up their adoption of AI, but feel their team is low-energy or stuck in old ways of working<br>- Guidance for account managers whose leaders are dragging their heels on AI, including how to use real client feedback to influence from the middle<br>- What Spencer is seeing in the M&amp;A market for agencies, including what buyers now look for and why AI capability is increasingly on the checklist<br><br>Spencer has a rare mix of lived experience building and selling an agency, deep technical curiosity, and a very honest take on where agencies are kidding themselves about the future. I think you’ll come away with both a clearer sense of direction and some very practical ideas to take back to your team.<br><br>If you’d like to stay connected with Spencer's thinking, you can find him on LinkedIn:<br>https://www.linkedin.com/in/spencergallagher/<br>and check out Bluhalo to see more of the work he’s doing to help agencies and businesses become truly AI-enabled. https://www.bluhalo.com/<br><br>And if you want to get a sense of where your own agency stands, you can assess your "AI readiness for client retention and growth" over on my website:&nbsp;<br>https://www.accountmanagementskills.com<br>The quiz takes just a few minutes and you’ll receive a short report with suggestions for how you can start weaving AI into your client management workflow.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2025 10:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/w95z3z3w.mp3" length="58490169" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/c85505b0-d675-11f0-91ef-3ff7d015d424/c8550750-d675-11f0-8129-61d40c0e65da.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2924</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 152. I’m chatting again with my go-to guru for the now, next and future of the agency business model, Spencer Gallagher. Spencer has relaunched Bluhalo with a renewed focus on helping agencies and businesses transform with AI. Bluhalo is a business for the next decade, focused on supporting B2B organisations across three core pillars: People, Technology, and Asset Growth.

In this conversation, we really dig into what transforming with AI means in practice for you as an agency leader or account manager.

Here’s what we cover:

- Why so many agency services have matured and what that means for your positioning and growth
- How Spencer thinks about the "now, next and future" of agencies in an AI-driven world
- Why founders and leaders need to reconnect with their creative side and carve out proper thinking space if they want to reinvent their business
- The cultural shift required to build high-agency, growth-mindset teams that actually embrace AI rather than resist it
- How AI is likely to reshape agency structures - from headcount and roles to pricing, automation and the types of services clients will value most
- Practical examples of how tools and no-code platforms have gone from clunky to powerful in a very short space of time, and what that means for your IP
- Advice for agency leaders who know they need to speed up their adoption of AI, but feel their team is low-energy or stuck in old ways of working
- Guidance for account managers whose leaders are dragging their heels on AI, including how to use real client feedback to influence from the middle
- What Spencer is seeing in the M&amp;A market for agencies, including what buyers now look for and why AI capability is increasingly on the checklist

Spencer has a rare mix of lived experience building and selling an agency, deep technical curiosity, and a very honest take on where agencies are kidding themselves about the future. I think you’ll come away with both a clearer sense of direction and some very practical ideas to take back to your team.

If you’d like to stay connected with Spencer's thinking, you can find him on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/spencergallagher/
and check out Bluhalo to see more of the work he’s doing to help agencies and businesses become truly AI-enabled. https://www.bluhalo.com/

And if you want to get a sense of where your own agency stands, you can assess your "AI readiness for client retention and growth" over on my website: 
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com
The quiz takes just a few minutes and you’ll receive a short report with suggestions for how you can start weaving AI into your client management workflow.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 152. I’m chatting again with my go-to guru for the now, next and future of the agency business model, Spencer Gallagher. Spencer has relaunched Bluhalo with a renewed focus on helping agencies and businesses transform with AI. Bluhalo is a business for the next decade, focused on supporting B2B organisations across three core pillars: People, Technology, and Asset Growth.

In this conversation, we really dig into what transforming with AI means in practice for you as an agency leader or account manager.

Here’s what we cover:

- Why so many agency services have matured and what that means for your positioning and growth
- How Spencer thinks about the "now, next and future" of agencies in an AI-driven world
- Why founders and leaders need to reconnect with their creative side and carve out proper thinking space if they want to reinvent their business
- The cultural shift required to build high-agency, growth-mindset teams that actually embrace AI rather than resist it
- How AI is likely to reshape agency structures - from headcount and roles to pricing, automation and the types of services clients will value most
- Practical examples of how tools and no-code platforms have gone from clunky to powerful in a very short space of time, and what that means for your IP
- Advice for agency leaders who know they need to speed up their adoption of AI, but feel their team is low-energy or stuck in old ways of working
- Guidance for account managers whose leaders are dragging their heels on AI, including how to use real client feedback to influence from the middle
- What Spencer is seeing in the M&amp;A market for agencies, including what buyers now look for and why AI capability is increasingly on the checklist

Spencer has a rare mix of lived experience building and selling an agency, deep technical curiosity, and a very honest take on where agencies are kidding themselves about the future. I think you’ll come away with both a clearer sense of direction and some very practical ideas to take back to your team.

If you’d like to stay connected with Spencer's thinking, you can find him on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/spencergallagher/
and check out Bluhalo to see more of the work he’s doing to help agencies and businesses become truly AI-enabled. https://www.bluhalo.com/

And if you want to get a sense of where your own agency stands, you can assess your "AI readiness for client retention and growth" over on my website: 
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com
The quiz takes just a few minutes and you’ll receive a short report with suggestions for how you can start weaving AI into your client management workflow.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>agencies, AI, no-code, agency leader</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How an in-house AI Strategist supports client experience, with Meg Pescio and Tom Duffy</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/qn0qy2m8-how-an-in-house-ai-strategist-supports-client-experience-with-meg-pescio-and-tom-duffy</link>
      <itunes:title>How an in-house AI Strategist supports client experience, with Meg Pescio and Tom Duffy</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>151</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">p1kp7rk0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 151. If you’re trying to work out how to integrate AI into your agency without losing the human side of what you do, this conversation will help.

Today I’m joined by two guests from Noble Studios: Tom Duffy, Head of AI Strategy, and Meg Pescio, Vice President of Client Experience.
Noble Studios is a creative digital performance marketing agency based in Reno &amp; Las Vegas in Nevada and Bristol, UK, focusing primarily on travel and tourism and B2B technology clients. Noble’s impressive client list includes the likes of Adobe, SiriusXM Media, Travel Nevada, and Visit Lake Tahoe.

They’ve been intentionally experimenting with AI across the agency, and in this episode we dig into how Tom and Meg are partnering to bring AI into client work in a thoughtful, human-first way.
Here’s what we cover:
·         Why Noble decided to hire a dedicated Head of AI Strategy and how that role works alongside the client experience team
·         The change management piece: how they’ve built trust internally and avoided “AI panic” in the agency
·         Practical use cases for account managers and client success teams, including: using AI as a learning and thinking partner, creating client “knowledge hubs” with tools like Notebook LM, aggregating messy data sources to uncover new insights for clients
·         How they’re thinking about data privacy, tools, and tech stack decisions
·         The impact AI is having on agency positioning, pricing and perceived value
·         Why human judgment, critical thinking and relationships are becoming even more important as AI usage grows
·         Their advice for agencies thinking about hiring an AI lead or formalising their AI approach
 
If you’d like to learn more about what Noble Studios is doing, you can head to  http://noblestudios.com/
or connect with Tom and Meg on LinkedIn, where they regularly share what they’re testing and learning.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-duffy-reno/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/megpescio/ 

And  if you want ongoing support with the account management side of agency life, join my newsletter. It’s where I share:
·         practical account management tips
·         trends and shifts I’m seeing in the industry
·         notifications of new podcast episodes
·         any mini training sessions or speaking I’m doing

You can sign up at http://accountmanagementskills.com/</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 151. If you’re trying to work out how to integrate AI into your agency without losing the human side of what you do, this conversation will help.<br><br></div><div><br>Today I’m joined by two guests from Noble Studios: Tom Duffy, Head of AI Strategy, and Meg Pescio, Vice President of Client Experience.</div><div>Noble Studios is a creative digital performance marketing agency based in Reno &amp; Las Vegas in Nevada and Bristol, UK, focusing primarily on travel and tourism and B2B technology clients. Noble’s impressive client list includes the likes of Adobe, SiriusXM Media, Travel Nevada, and Visit Lake Tahoe.<br><br></div><div>They’ve been intentionally experimenting with AI across the agency, and in this episode we dig into how Tom and Meg are partnering to bring AI into client work in a thoughtful, human-first way.<br><br></div><div><br>Here’s what we cover:</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Why Noble decided to hire a dedicated Head of AI Strategy and how that role works alongside the client experience team</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;The change management piece: how they’ve built trust internally and avoided “AI panic” in the agency</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Practical use cases for account managers and client success teams, including: using AI as a learning and thinking partner, creating client “knowledge hubs” with tools like Notebook LM, aggregating messy data sources to uncover new insights for clients</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;How they’re thinking about data privacy, tools, and tech stack decisions</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;The impact AI is having on agency positioning, pricing and perceived value</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Why human judgment, critical thinking and relationships are becoming even more important as AI usage grows</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Their advice for agencies thinking about hiring an AI lead or formalising their AI approach</div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>If you’d like to learn more about what Noble Studios is doing, you can head to&nbsp; http://noblestudios.com/<br>or connect with Tom and Meg on LinkedIn, where they regularly share what they’re testing and learning.<br><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-duffy-reno/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-duffy-reno/</a></div><div><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/megpescio/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/megpescio/&nbsp;</a></div><div><br><br>And&nbsp; if you want ongoing support with the account management side of agency life, join my newsletter. It’s where I share:</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;practical account management tips</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;trends and shifts I’m seeing in the industry</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;notifications of new podcast episodes</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;any mini training sessions or speaking I’m doing</div><div><br>You can sign up at http://accountmanagementskills.com/</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2025 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/wpy7qky8.mp3" length="64107018" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/cfbaaf10-c6f3-11f0-bad9-bd02949acac2/cfbab080-c6f3-11f0-8694-6b3842f66ab9.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3205</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 151. If you’re trying to work out how to integrate AI into your agency without losing the human side of what you do, this conversation will help.

Today I’m joined by two guests from Noble Studios: Tom Duffy, Head of AI Strategy, and Meg Pescio, Vice President of Client Experience.
Noble Studios is a creative digital performance marketing agency based in Reno &amp; Las Vegas in Nevada and Bristol, UK, focusing primarily on travel and tourism and B2B technology clients. Noble’s impressive client list includes the likes of Adobe, SiriusXM Media, Travel Nevada, and Visit Lake Tahoe.

They’ve been intentionally experimenting with AI across the agency, and in this episode we dig into how Tom and Meg are partnering to bring AI into client work in a thoughtful, human-first way.
Here’s what we cover:
·         Why Noble decided to hire a dedicated Head of AI Strategy and how that role works alongside the client experience team
·         The change management piece: how they’ve built trust internally and avoided “AI panic” in the agency
·         Practical use cases for account managers and client success teams, including: using AI as a learning and thinking partner, creating client “knowledge hubs” with tools like Notebook LM, aggregating messy data sources to uncover new insights for clients
·         How they’re thinking about data privacy, tools, and tech stack decisions
·         The impact AI is having on agency positioning, pricing and perceived value
·         Why human judgment, critical thinking and relationships are becoming even more important as AI usage grows
·         Their advice for agencies thinking about hiring an AI lead or formalising their AI approach
 
If you’d like to learn more about what Noble Studios is doing, you can head to  http://noblestudios.com/
or connect with Tom and Meg on LinkedIn, where they regularly share what they’re testing and learning.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-duffy-reno/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/megpescio/ 

And  if you want ongoing support with the account management side of agency life, join my newsletter. It’s where I share:
·         practical account management tips
·         trends and shifts I’m seeing in the industry
·         notifications of new podcast episodes
·         any mini training sessions or speaking I’m doing

You can sign up at http://accountmanagementskills.com/</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 151. If you’re trying to work out how to integrate AI into your agency without losing the human side of what you do, this conversation will help.

Today I’m joined by two guests from Noble Studios: Tom Duffy, Head of AI Strategy, and Meg Pescio, Vice President of Client Experience.
Noble Studios is a creative digital performance marketing agency based in Reno &amp; Las Vegas in Nevada and Bristol, UK, focusing primarily on travel and tourism and B2B technology clients. Noble’s impressive client list includes the likes of Adobe, SiriusXM Media, Travel Nevada, and Visit Lake Tahoe.

They’ve been intentionally experimenting with AI across the agency, and in this episode we dig into how Tom and Meg are partnering to bring AI into client work in a thoughtful, human-first way.
Here’s what we cover:
·         Why Noble decided to hire a dedicated Head of AI Strategy and how that role works alongside the client experience team
·         The change management piece: how they’ve built trust internally and avoided “AI panic” in the agency
·         Practical use cases for account managers and client success teams, including: using AI as a learning and thinking partner, creating client “knowledge hubs” with tools like Notebook LM, aggregating messy data sources to uncover new insights for clients
·         How they’re thinking about data privacy, tools, and tech stack decisions
·         The impact AI is having on agency positioning, pricing and perceived value
·         Why human judgment, critical thinking and relationships are becoming even more important as AI usage grows
·         Their advice for agencies thinking about hiring an AI lead or formalising their AI approach
 
If you’d like to learn more about what Noble Studios is doing, you can head to  http://noblestudios.com/
or connect with Tom and Meg on LinkedIn, where they regularly share what they’re testing and learning.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-duffy-reno/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/megpescio/ 

And  if you want ongoing support with the account management side of agency life, join my newsletter. It’s where I share:
·         practical account management tips
·         trends and shifts I’m seeing in the industry
·         notifications of new podcast episodes
·         any mini training sessions or speaking I’m doing

You can sign up at http://accountmanagementskills.com/</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to build an agency sales engine, with Ryan Hall</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/mn4xv3qn-how-to-build-an-agency-sales-engine-with-ryan-hall</link>
      <itunes:title>How to build an agency sales engine, with Ryan Hall</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>150</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">x06l4820</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 150. This episode is for anyone in agency new business or running sales. My guest is Ryan Hall, Founder of Friday Solved, where he helps agencies build scalable and sustainable sales engines. With over 20 years in marketing and digital - including leading and selling Nice Agency, later acquired by Karmarama and Accenture Interactive - Ryan has seen firsthand what drives real growth.

Here’s what we cover and how Ryan advises agencies:

- Create buyability, not forced selling. You can’t push complex services; people have to want to buy from you. That means trust, proof and value over time, plus clear expectations that sales isn’t a quick fix.

- Build a joined-up sales engine. Inbound and outbound run at different speeds and need different steps, but the buyer experience starts at first contact and momentum through stages is everything. Systemise it so sales becomes repeatable.

- Work the middle of the funnel properly. “Shake the tree” with people you already know, keep data clean, follow up with useful content tied to your critical pillars, and channel-swap from LinkedIn to email when it’s serious. Let CRM be your muscle memory so you stay consistent without spamming.


Connect with Ryan Hall here:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanghall/
Website: https://www.fridaysolved.co.uk/
Book: https://www.fridaysolved.co.uk/pages/dont-sell

If you haven’t signed up for my weekly newsletter, go to https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and sign up to get account management tips and trends, any trainings I’m running, guests coming on the show and advice to help you in your account management role.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 150. This episode is for anyone in agency new business or running sales. My guest is Ryan Hall, Founder of Friday Solved, where he helps agencies build scalable and sustainable sales engines. With over 20 years in marketing and digital - including leading and selling Nice Agency, later acquired by Karmarama and Accenture Interactive - Ryan has seen firsthand what drives real growth.<br><br>Here’s what we cover and how Ryan advises agencies:<br><br>- Create buyability, not forced selling. You can’t push complex services; people have to want to buy from you. That means trust, proof and value over time, plus clear expectations that sales isn’t a quick fix.<br><br>- Build a joined-up sales engine. Inbound and outbound run at different speeds and need different steps, but the buyer experience starts at first contact and momentum through stages is everything. Systemise it so sales becomes repeatable.<br><br>- Work the middle of the funnel properly. “Shake the tree” with people you already know, keep data clean, follow up with useful content tied to your critical pillars, and channel-swap from LinkedIn to email when it’s serious. Let CRM be your muscle memory so you stay consistent without spamming.<br><br><br>Connect with Ryan Hall here:<br>LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanghall/<br>Website: https://www.fridaysolved.co.uk/<br>Book: https://www.fridaysolved.co.uk/pages/dont-sell<br><br><br>If you haven’t signed up for my weekly newsletter, go to https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and sign up to get account management tips and trends, any trainings I’m running, guests coming on the show and advice to help you in your account management role.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2025 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8k47jzjw.mp3" length="51351426" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/42461a00-be1a-11f0-bae6-e74391441c2e/42461d60-be1a-11f0-abce-11a255557920.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2567</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 150. This episode is for anyone in agency new business or running sales. My guest is Ryan Hall, Founder of Friday Solved, where he helps agencies build scalable and sustainable sales engines. With over 20 years in marketing and digital - including leading and selling Nice Agency, later acquired by Karmarama and Accenture Interactive - Ryan has seen firsthand what drives real growth.

Here’s what we cover and how Ryan advises agencies:

- Create buyability, not forced selling. You can’t push complex services; people have to want to buy from you. That means trust, proof and value over time, plus clear expectations that sales isn’t a quick fix.

- Build a joined-up sales engine. Inbound and outbound run at different speeds and need different steps, but the buyer experience starts at first contact and momentum through stages is everything. Systemise it so sales becomes repeatable.

- Work the middle of the funnel properly. “Shake the tree” with people you already know, keep data clean, follow up with useful content tied to your critical pillars, and channel-swap from LinkedIn to email when it’s serious. Let CRM be your muscle memory so you stay consistent without spamming.


Connect with Ryan Hall here:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanghall/
Website: https://www.fridaysolved.co.uk/
Book: https://www.fridaysolved.co.uk/pages/dont-sell

If you haven’t signed up for my weekly newsletter, go to https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and sign up to get account management tips and trends, any trainings I’m running, guests coming on the show and advice to help you in your account management role.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 150. This episode is for anyone in agency new business or running sales. My guest is Ryan Hall, Founder of Friday Solved, where he helps agencies build scalable and sustainable sales engines. With over 20 years in marketing and digital - including leading and selling Nice Agency, later acquired by Karmarama and Accenture Interactive - Ryan has seen firsthand what drives real growth.

Here’s what we cover and how Ryan advises agencies:

- Create buyability, not forced selling. You can’t push complex services; people have to want to buy from you. That means trust, proof and value over time, plus clear expectations that sales isn’t a quick fix.

- Build a joined-up sales engine. Inbound and outbound run at different speeds and need different steps, but the buyer experience starts at first contact and momentum through stages is everything. Systemise it so sales becomes repeatable.

- Work the middle of the funnel properly. “Shake the tree” with people you already know, keep data clean, follow up with useful content tied to your critical pillars, and channel-swap from LinkedIn to email when it’s serious. Let CRM be your muscle memory so you stay consistent without spamming.


Connect with Ryan Hall here:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanghall/
Website: https://www.fridaysolved.co.uk/
Book: https://www.fridaysolved.co.uk/pages/dont-sell

If you haven’t signed up for my weekly newsletter, go to https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and sign up to get account management tips and trends, any trainings I’m running, guests coming on the show and advice to help you in your account management role.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Rebuilding the agency model for the AI era, with Roy Murphy</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/28x0lr38-rebuilding-the-agency-model-for-the-ai-era-with-roy-murphy</link>
      <itunes:title>Rebuilding the agency model for the AI era, with Roy Murphy</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>149</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">60m6yq41</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 149. If you've been watching AI reshape the marketing landscape and wondering what it really means for agencies, this conversation is going to be particularly interesting for you. 

Roy Murphy and I dig into whether the traditional agency model can survive in its current form and what you can do about it. Roy is the Co-Founder of G3NR8, a business focused on applying a centralised intelligence layer for organisations to implement AI successfully.

We cover:

- Why he believes the current agency model is on borrowed time and the data behind that bold claim. 
- How client in-housing, AI adoption and economic pressure are converging into a perfect storm. 
- What the rise of creative automation really means for designers, strategists and account managers. 
- How forward thinking agencies are building new business models that focus on client outcomes and not ours.
- And the three M's every agency leader needs to embrace, which are mindset, model and mechanics. 

It's a lively, honest discussion, packed with examples, a bit of provocation and plenty of practical takeaways for anyone trying to figure out how to future-proof their agency. Roy's message is really clear. AI isn't coming for agencies. It's already here and it's those agencies that are going to adapt and who are going to thrive. So rethinking your business model, retraining the team and rebuilding the offering around client outcomes.

You can connect with Roy at https://www.g3nr8.com/  and subscribe to his brilliant newsletter.  You can also read his viral LinkedIn post that we mention in our chat here: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/roymurphy_ai-agencies-work-activity-7383090246873149440--6Su
Additional links:
Sales and Marketing AI Playbook https://www.g3nr8.com/ai-sales-and-marketing-ecosystem
Marketers AI roundtable https://www.g3nr8.com/senior-marketers-ai-roundtable
G3NR8 AI newsletter https://www.g3nr8.com/blog (featuring BAD AI where they skewer poor AI practice, every week, without fail).

If you'd like to know how AI-ready you are in your account management role, then you can go over to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and take your free AI readiness quiz. You'll get a personalised report and also some insights and tips and strategies for using AI in your client management role.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 149. If you've been watching AI reshape the marketing landscape and wondering what it really means for agencies, this conversation is going to be particularly interesting for you.&nbsp;<br><br>Roy Murphy and I dig into whether the traditional agency model can survive in its current form and what you can do about it. Roy is the Co-Founder of G3NR8, a business focused on applying a centralised intelligence layer for organisations to implement AI successfully.<br><br>We cover:<br><br>- Why he believes the current agency model is on borrowed time and the data behind that bold claim.&nbsp;<br>- How client in-housing, AI adoption and economic pressure are converging into a perfect storm.&nbsp;<br>- What the rise of creative automation really means for designers, strategists and account managers.&nbsp;<br>- How forward thinking agencies are building new business models that focus on client outcomes and not ours.<br>- And the three M's every agency leader needs to embrace, which are mindset, model and mechanics.&nbsp;<br><br>It's a lively, honest discussion, packed with examples, a bit of provocation and plenty of practical takeaways for anyone trying to figure out how to future-proof their agency. Roy's message is really clear. AI isn't coming for agencies. It's already here and it's those agencies that are going to adapt and who are going to thrive. So rethinking your business model, retraining the team and rebuilding the offering around client outcomes.<br><br>You can connect with Roy at https://www.g3nr8.com/&nbsp; and subscribe to his brilliant newsletter.&nbsp; You can also read his viral LinkedIn post that we mention in our chat here: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/roymurphy_ai-agencies-work-activity-7383090246873149440--6Su<br><br>Additional links:<br>Sales and Marketing AI Playbook https://www.g3nr8.com/ai-sales-and-marketing-ecosystem<br>Marketers AI roundtable https://www.g3nr8.com/senior-marketers-ai-roundtable<br>G3NR8 AI newsletter https://www.g3nr8.com/blog (featuring BAD AI where they skewer poor AI practice, every week, without fail).<br><br>If you'd like to know how AI-ready you are in your account management role, then you can go over to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and take your free AI readiness quiz. You'll get a personalised report and also some insights and tips and strategies for using AI in your client management role.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2025 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/895z3lk8.mp3" length="48716152" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/1fcc9ee0-b014-11f0-8ae6-73382afb2a98/1fcca070-b014-11f0-badb-81103fb468a2.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3044</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 149. If you've been watching AI reshape the marketing landscape and wondering what it really means for agencies, this conversation is going to be particularly interesting for you. 

Roy Murphy and I dig into whether the traditional agency model can survive in its current form and what you can do about it. Roy is the Co-Founder of G3NR8, a business focused on applying a centralised intelligence layer for organisations to implement AI successfully.

We cover:

- Why he believes the current agency model is on borrowed time and the data behind that bold claim. 
- How client in-housing, AI adoption and economic pressure are converging into a perfect storm. 
- What the rise of creative automation really means for designers, strategists and account managers. 
- How forward thinking agencies are building new business models that focus on client outcomes and not ours.
- And the three M's every agency leader needs to embrace, which are mindset, model and mechanics. 

It's a lively, honest discussion, packed with examples, a bit of provocation and plenty of practical takeaways for anyone trying to figure out how to future-proof their agency. Roy's message is really clear. AI isn't coming for agencies. It's already here and it's those agencies that are going to adapt and who are going to thrive. So rethinking your business model, retraining the team and rebuilding the offering around client outcomes.

You can connect with Roy at https://www.g3nr8.com/  and subscribe to his brilliant newsletter.  You can also read his viral LinkedIn post that we mention in our chat here: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/roymurphy_ai-agencies-work-activity-7383090246873149440--6Su
Additional links:
Sales and Marketing AI Playbook https://www.g3nr8.com/ai-sales-and-marketing-ecosystem
Marketers AI roundtable https://www.g3nr8.com/senior-marketers-ai-roundtable
G3NR8 AI newsletter https://www.g3nr8.com/blog (featuring BAD AI where they skewer poor AI practice, every week, without fail).

If you'd like to know how AI-ready you are in your account management role, then you can go over to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and take your free AI readiness quiz. You'll get a personalised report and also some insights and tips and strategies for using AI in your client management role.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 149. If you've been watching AI reshape the marketing landscape and wondering what it really means for agencies, this conversation is going to be particularly interesting for you. 

Roy Murphy and I dig into whether the traditional agency model can survive in its current form and what you can do about it. Roy is the Co-Founder of G3NR8, a business focused on applying a centralised intelligence layer for organisations to implement AI successfully.

We cover:

- Why he believes the current agency model is on borrowed time and the data behind that bold claim. 
- How client in-housing, AI adoption and economic pressure are converging into a perfect storm. 
- What the rise of creative automation really means for designers, strategists and account managers. 
- How forward thinking agencies are building new business models that focus on client outcomes and not ours.
- And the three M's every agency leader needs to embrace, which are mindset, model and mechanics. 

It's a lively, honest discussion, packed with examples, a bit of provocation and plenty of practical takeaways for anyone trying to figure out how to future-proof their agency. Roy's message is really clear. AI isn't coming for agencies. It's already here and it's those agencies that are going to adapt and who are going to thrive. So rethinking your business model, retraining the team and rebuilding the offering around client outcomes.

You can connect with Roy at https://www.g3nr8.com/  and subscribe to his brilliant newsletter.  You can also read his viral LinkedIn post that we mention in our chat here: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/roymurphy_ai-agencies-work-activity-7383090246873149440--6Su
Additional links:
Sales and Marketing AI Playbook https://www.g3nr8.com/ai-sales-and-marketing-ecosystem
Marketers AI roundtable https://www.g3nr8.com/senior-marketers-ai-roundtable
G3NR8 AI newsletter https://www.g3nr8.com/blog (featuring BAD AI where they skewer poor AI practice, every week, without fail).

If you'd like to know how AI-ready you are in your account management role, then you can go over to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and take your free AI readiness quiz. You'll get a personalised report and also some insights and tips and strategies for using AI in your client management role.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to stay legally safe when using AI in your agency, with Ryan Lisk &amp; Kay Yung</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/m84xv5q8-how-to-stay-legally-safe-when-using-ai-in-your-agency-with-ryan-lisk-kay-yung</link>
      <itunes:title>How to stay legally safe when using AI in your agency, with Ryan Lisk &amp; Kay Yung</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>148</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">x16l4321</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 148. This episode is going to be really useful if your agency has started using AI tools or if your team are experimenting with AI note-takers, ChatGPT, or generative image tools and you want to make sure you’re staying legally safe, compliant and transparent with your clients.

My guests are Ryan Lisk, Founder, and Kay Yung, Senior Commercial Lawyer at Hybrid Legal. The company helps business leaders prevent and solve legal headaches in a way that is easy to understand without breaking the bank. They specialise in creating and reviewing contracts, advising on tech law including AI and data privacy, employment &amp; HR and M&amp;A.

We talk about:

The biggest legal blind spots agencies have when it comes to AI use
Why transparent conversations about AI can actually strengthen your client relationships
How to run an internal “AI audit” — finding out who’s using what and where the risks lie
What to include in your AI policy and client contracts to protect your business
How to manage freelancer agreements and IP when AI tools are involved

Ryan and Kay share real stories from agency clients, including one that perfectly illustrates how easy it is to get into legal trouble  and how to avoid it.
If you’ve ever worried about data privacy, IP ownership, or simply how to have the AI conversation with your clients, you’ll take away some really practical actions from this one.

You can follow or connect with both Ryan and Kay on LinkedIn, and check out the Hybrid Legal website to sign up for Legal Loop  their free bi-weekly newsletter with legal updates and AI insights for agency owners. 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanmlisk/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kay-yung-creativelawyer/
https://www.hybridlegal.co.uk/the-legal-loop

If you’d like account management tips, updates on upcoming podcast episodes, and invitations to my free trainings, make sure you sign up for my newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 148. This episode is going to be really useful if your agency has started using AI tools or if your team are experimenting with AI note-takers, ChatGPT, or generative image tools and you want to make sure you’re staying legally safe, compliant and transparent with your clients.<br><br>My guests are Ryan Lisk, Founder, and Kay Yung, Senior Commercial Lawyer at Hybrid Legal. The company helps business leaders prevent and solve legal headaches in a way that is easy to understand without breaking the bank. They specialise in creating and reviewing contracts, advising on tech law including AI and data privacy, employment &amp; HR and M&amp;A.<br><br>We talk about:<br><br>The biggest legal blind spots agencies have when it comes to AI use<br>Why transparent conversations about AI can actually strengthen your client relationships<br>How to run an internal “AI audit” — finding out who’s using what and where the risks lie<br>What to include in your AI policy and client contracts to protect your business<br>How to manage freelancer agreements and IP when AI tools are involved<br><br>Ryan and Kay share real stories from agency clients, including one that perfectly illustrates how easy it is to get into legal trouble&nbsp; and how to avoid it.<br>If you’ve ever worried about data privacy, IP ownership, or simply how to have the AI conversation with your clients, you’ll take away some really practical actions from this one.<br><br>You can follow or connect with both Ryan and Kay on LinkedIn, and check out the Hybrid Legal website to sign up for Legal Loop&nbsp; their free bi-weekly newsletter with legal updates and AI insights for agency owners.&nbsp;<br><br>https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanmlisk/<br>https://www.linkedin.com/in/kay-yung-creativelawyer/<br>https://www.hybridlegal.co.uk/the-legal-loop<br><br>If you’d like account management tips, updates on upcoming podcast episodes, and invitations to my free trainings, make sure you sign up for my newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2025 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8j07yxj8.mp3" length="62522430" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/41ef1820-a8da-11f0-bab6-bdeed977df84/41ef19b0-a8da-11f0-9ee9-e541e0defbb1.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3125</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 148. This episode is going to be really useful if your agency has started using AI tools or if your team are experimenting with AI note-takers, ChatGPT, or generative image tools and you want to make sure you’re staying legally safe, compliant and transparent with your clients.

My guests are Ryan Lisk, Founder, and Kay Yung, Senior Commercial Lawyer at Hybrid Legal. The company helps business leaders prevent and solve legal headaches in a way that is easy to understand without breaking the bank. They specialise in creating and reviewing contracts, advising on tech law including AI and data privacy, employment &amp; HR and M&amp;A.

We talk about:

The biggest legal blind spots agencies have when it comes to AI use
Why transparent conversations about AI can actually strengthen your client relationships
How to run an internal “AI audit” — finding out who’s using what and where the risks lie
What to include in your AI policy and client contracts to protect your business
How to manage freelancer agreements and IP when AI tools are involved

Ryan and Kay share real stories from agency clients, including one that perfectly illustrates how easy it is to get into legal trouble  and how to avoid it.
If you’ve ever worried about data privacy, IP ownership, or simply how to have the AI conversation with your clients, you’ll take away some really practical actions from this one.

You can follow or connect with both Ryan and Kay on LinkedIn, and check out the Hybrid Legal website to sign up for Legal Loop  their free bi-weekly newsletter with legal updates and AI insights for agency owners. 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanmlisk/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kay-yung-creativelawyer/
https://www.hybridlegal.co.uk/the-legal-loop

If you’d like account management tips, updates on upcoming podcast episodes, and invitations to my free trainings, make sure you sign up for my newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 148. This episode is going to be really useful if your agency has started using AI tools or if your team are experimenting with AI note-takers, ChatGPT, or generative image tools and you want to make sure you’re staying legally safe, compliant and transparent with your clients.

My guests are Ryan Lisk, Founder, and Kay Yung, Senior Commercial Lawyer at Hybrid Legal. The company helps business leaders prevent and solve legal headaches in a way that is easy to understand without breaking the bank. They specialise in creating and reviewing contracts, advising on tech law including AI and data privacy, employment &amp; HR and M&amp;A.

We talk about:

The biggest legal blind spots agencies have when it comes to AI use
Why transparent conversations about AI can actually strengthen your client relationships
How to run an internal “AI audit” — finding out who’s using what and where the risks lie
What to include in your AI policy and client contracts to protect your business
How to manage freelancer agreements and IP when AI tools are involved

Ryan and Kay share real stories from agency clients, including one that perfectly illustrates how easy it is to get into legal trouble  and how to avoid it.
If you’ve ever worried about data privacy, IP ownership, or simply how to have the AI conversation with your clients, you’ll take away some really practical actions from this one.

You can follow or connect with both Ryan and Kay on LinkedIn, and check out the Hybrid Legal website to sign up for Legal Loop  their free bi-weekly newsletter with legal updates and AI insights for agency owners. 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanmlisk/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kay-yung-creativelawyer/
https://www.hybridlegal.co.uk/the-legal-loop

If you’d like account management tips, updates on upcoming podcast episodes, and invitations to my free trainings, make sure you sign up for my newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>AI and law, AI law, legal for small business, creative agency law</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How agencies are adopting AI and what's coming next – a compilation of expert guest insights</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/68rr51j8-how-agencies-are-adopting-ai-and-what-s-coming-next-a-compilation-of-expert-guest-insights</link>
      <itunes:title>How agencies are adopting AI and what's coming next – a compilation of expert guest insights</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>147</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">80563kj1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 147. 

In this special compilation episode, Jenny Plant revisits standout moments from her conversations with leading voices in the agency world about how AI is transforming agencies and agency account management. With change accelerating and clients already asking tough questions, this episode brings together practical frameworks, provocative thinking and real-world use cases that can help agency owners and account managers lead the AI conversation rather than follow it.

Across five key themes – from industry-wide disruption and agency adoption, to shifts in search, pricing models and client expectations – you’ll hear from strategists, pricing experts, consultants and AI practitioners on what’s working, what’s changing, and what to prioritise next.

If you want a sharper perspective on AI’s role in agency growth, this is your starting point.

If you’d like to see how ready you are to use AI in your client management role, I’ve put together a free AI readiness quiz. It takes about three to five minutes. You’ll get a tailored report with tips for how to start integrating AI into your workflows for client retention and growth. You can do that here: https://accountmanagementskills.com/ai-account-manager-quiz/</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 147.&nbsp;<br><br>In this special compilation episode, Jenny Plant revisits standout moments from her conversations with leading voices in the agency world about how AI is transforming agencies and agency account management. With change accelerating and clients already asking tough questions, this episode brings together practical frameworks, provocative thinking and real-world use cases that can help agency owners and account managers lead the AI conversation rather than follow it.<br><br>Across five key themes – from industry-wide disruption and agency adoption, to shifts in search, pricing models and client expectations – you’ll hear from strategists, pricing experts, consultants and AI practitioners on what’s working, what’s changing, and what to prioritise next.<br><br>If you want a sharper perspective on AI’s role in agency growth, this is your starting point.<br><br>If you’d like to see how ready you are to use AI in your client management role, I’ve put together a free AI readiness quiz. It takes about three to five minutes. You’ll get a tailored report with tips for how to start integrating AI into your workflows for client retention and growth. You can do that here: https://accountmanagementskills.com/ai-account-manager-quiz/</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2025 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/w95zm6nw.mp3" length="37522202" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/86a499b0-9de7-11f0-ac24-add1f60fe9db/86a49c80-9de7-11f0-b3b1-e36a88e396b2.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>1875</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 147. 

In this special compilation episode, Jenny Plant revisits standout moments from her conversations with leading voices in the agency world about how AI is transforming agencies and agency account management. With change accelerating and clients already asking tough questions, this episode brings together practical frameworks, provocative thinking and real-world use cases that can help agency owners and account managers lead the AI conversation rather than follow it.

Across five key themes – from industry-wide disruption and agency adoption, to shifts in search, pricing models and client expectations – you’ll hear from strategists, pricing experts, consultants and AI practitioners on what’s working, what’s changing, and what to prioritise next.

If you want a sharper perspective on AI’s role in agency growth, this is your starting point.

If you’d like to see how ready you are to use AI in your client management role, I’ve put together a free AI readiness quiz. It takes about three to five minutes. You’ll get a tailored report with tips for how to start integrating AI into your workflows for client retention and growth. You can do that here: https://accountmanagementskills.com/ai-account-manager-quiz/</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 147. 

In this special compilation episode, Jenny Plant revisits standout moments from her conversations with leading voices in the agency world about how AI is transforming agencies and agency account management. With change accelerating and clients already asking tough questions, this episode brings together practical frameworks, provocative thinking and real-world use cases that can help agency owners and account managers lead the AI conversation rather than follow it.

Across five key themes – from industry-wide disruption and agency adoption, to shifts in search, pricing models and client expectations – you’ll hear from strategists, pricing experts, consultants and AI practitioners on what’s working, what’s changing, and what to prioritise next.

If you want a sharper perspective on AI’s role in agency growth, this is your starting point.

If you’d like to see how ready you are to use AI in your client management role, I’ve put together a free AI readiness quiz. It takes about three to five minutes. You’ll get a tailored report with tips for how to start integrating AI into your workflows for client retention and growth. You can do that here: https://accountmanagementskills.com/ai-account-manager-quiz/</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Account management in the Nonprofit sector, with Lauren Jones</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/qn0qywv8-account-management-in-the-nonprofit-sector-with-lauren-jones</link>
      <itunes:title>Account management in the Nonprofit sector, with Lauren Jones</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>146</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">p1kp78n0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 146. This episode will be really valuable if you're an agency account manager or an owner working with charities, nonprofits or mission driven brands, or if you're just curious about how the social impact sector operates differently and what account managers can learn from it. Lauren Jones is Senior Director of Client Services at Wide Eye, a digital creative agency for purpose-driven organisations &amp; changemakers, and has spent her entire career in the Nonprofit sector.
In this episode, we cover:
•	what makes working with nonprofit clients different from for-profit
•	why impact, not revenue, is often the most important KPI. 
•	how to build and structure an account management function inside an agency. 
•	how to shift your agency from project based sort of more transactional work into longer term strategic partnerships.
•	practical strategies for measuring and demonstrating impact, often through powerful storytelling rather than just data. 
•	Creating a really interesting stakeholder engagement design. 
•	coaching clients so they can evangelize about your work internally
•	building long-term trust that keeps your account strong and sustainable.


Even if your clients are all commercial brands, then Lauren's advice about strategic thinking, building relationships and aligning with client priorities will definitely resonate.
You can connect with Lauren via LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-m-jones-1b623259

or via her own website: http://lmjones.com/

if you'd like to see how ready you are to use AI in your client management role, I've put together a free AI readiness quiz. It takes about three to five minutes. You'll get a tailored report with tips for how to start integrating AI into your workflows for client retention and growth. You can that here: https://accountmanagementskills.com/ai-account-manager-quiz/

If you want to be alerted to new podcast episodes coming up, hear about tips for account managers and any mini trainings I'm doing, you can also sign up for my weekly newsletter here: https://bit.ly/AMSUpdates</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 146. This episode will be really valuable if you're an agency account manager or an owner working with charities, nonprofits or mission driven brands, or if you're just curious about how the social impact sector operates differently and what account managers can learn from it. Lauren Jones is Senior Director of Client Services at Wide Eye, a digital creative agency for purpose-driven organisations &amp; changemakers, and has spent her entire career in the Nonprofit sector.<br><br></div><div>In this episode, we cover:<br><br></div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;what makes working with nonprofit clients different from for-profit</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;why impact, not revenue, is often the most important KPI.&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how to build and structure an account management function inside an agency.&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how to shift your agency from project based sort of more transactional work into longer term strategic partnerships.</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;practical strategies for measuring and demonstrating impact, often through powerful storytelling rather than just data.&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Creating a really interesting stakeholder engagement design.&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;coaching clients so they can evangelize about your work internally</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;building long-term trust that keeps your account strong and sustainable.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Even if your clients are all commercial brands, then Lauren's advice about strategic thinking, building relationships and aligning with client priorities will definitely resonate.<br><br></div><div>You can connect with Lauren via LinkedIn here: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-m-jones-1b623259">https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-m-jones-1b623259</a><br> <br> or via her own website: <a href="http://lmjones.com/">http://lmjones.com/<br></a><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>if you'd like to see how ready you are to use AI in your client management role, I've put together a free AI readiness quiz. It takes about three to five minutes. You'll get a tailored report with tips for how to start integrating AI into your workflows for client retention and growth. You can that here: https://accountmanagementskills.com/ai-account-manager-quiz/<br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;If you want to be alerted to new podcast episodes coming up, hear about tips for account managers and any mini trainings I'm doing, you can also sign up for my weekly newsletter here: https://bit.ly/AMSUpdates<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2025 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/wnn7jymw.mp3" length="58540324" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/89a48af0-8e50-11f0-ab27-bb8c25062bb5/89a48e00-8e50-11f0-9993-9737ab706326.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2926</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 146. This episode will be really valuable if you're an agency account manager or an owner working with charities, nonprofits or mission driven brands, or if you're just curious about how the social impact sector operates differently and what account managers can learn from it. Lauren Jones is Senior Director of Client Services at Wide Eye, a digital creative agency for purpose-driven organisations &amp; changemakers, and has spent her entire career in the Nonprofit sector.
In this episode, we cover:
•	what makes working with nonprofit clients different from for-profit
•	why impact, not revenue, is often the most important KPI. 
•	how to build and structure an account management function inside an agency. 
•	how to shift your agency from project based sort of more transactional work into longer term strategic partnerships.
•	practical strategies for measuring and demonstrating impact, often through powerful storytelling rather than just data. 
•	Creating a really interesting stakeholder engagement design. 
•	coaching clients so they can evangelize about your work internally
•	building long-term trust that keeps your account strong and sustainable.


Even if your clients are all commercial brands, then Lauren's advice about strategic thinking, building relationships and aligning with client priorities will definitely resonate.
You can connect with Lauren via LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-m-jones-1b623259

or via her own website: http://lmjones.com/

if you'd like to see how ready you are to use AI in your client management role, I've put together a free AI readiness quiz. It takes about three to five minutes. You'll get a tailored report with tips for how to start integrating AI into your workflows for client retention and growth. You can that here: https://accountmanagementskills.com/ai-account-manager-quiz/

If you want to be alerted to new podcast episodes coming up, hear about tips for account managers and any mini trainings I'm doing, you can also sign up for my weekly newsletter here: https://bit.ly/AMSUpdates</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 146. This episode will be really valuable if you're an agency account manager or an owner working with charities, nonprofits or mission driven brands, or if you're just curious about how the social impact sector operates differently and what account managers can learn from it. Lauren Jones is Senior Director of Client Services at Wide Eye, a digital creative agency for purpose-driven organisations &amp; changemakers, and has spent her entire career in the Nonprofit sector.
In this episode, we cover:
•	what makes working with nonprofit clients different from for-profit
•	why impact, not revenue, is often the most important KPI. 
•	how to build and structure an account management function inside an agency. 
•	how to shift your agency from project based sort of more transactional work into longer term strategic partnerships.
•	practical strategies for measuring and demonstrating impact, often through powerful storytelling rather than just data. 
•	Creating a really interesting stakeholder engagement design. 
•	coaching clients so they can evangelize about your work internally
•	building long-term trust that keeps your account strong and sustainable.


Even if your clients are all commercial brands, then Lauren's advice about strategic thinking, building relationships and aligning with client priorities will definitely resonate.
You can connect with Lauren via LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-m-jones-1b623259

or via her own website: http://lmjones.com/

if you'd like to see how ready you are to use AI in your client management role, I've put together a free AI readiness quiz. It takes about three to five minutes. You'll get a tailored report with tips for how to start integrating AI into your workflows for client retention and growth. You can that here: https://accountmanagementskills.com/ai-account-manager-quiz/

If you want to be alerted to new podcast episodes coming up, hear about tips for account managers and any mini trainings I'm doing, you can also sign up for my weekly newsletter here: https://bit.ly/AMSUpdates</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>nonprofit sector, creative agency, marketing, client services</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What your client’s Procurement team wants: insights and strategies, with Tina Fegent</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/x8ym21w8-what-your-client-s-procurement-team-wants-insights-and-strategies-with-tina-fegent</link>
      <itunes:title>What your client’s Procurement team wants: insights and strategies, with Tina Fegent</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>145</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">l04nqlk0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 145.  This episode is going to be particularly useful if you want to understand how to engage with your client’s marketing procurement department and understand the world through their eyes when selecting an agency to work with.

I'm delighted that global marketing procurement consultant, Tina Fegent, has joined me for a second time on the podcast. Tina is a leading expert and pioneer in marketing procurement, with over 30 years of experience shaping the industry. She launched her consultancy in 2006 to help brands unlock greater value from their marketing spend through strategic, commercially focused procurement. Tina has worked with global brands and agencies to drive efficiencies, improve ROI, and foster better client–agency relationships. She is a regular speaker, advisor, and industry commentator, known for advocating collaboration between marketing and procurement. Passionate about innovation and impact, Tina continues to influence best practices and champion the evolving role of procurement in delivering creative and commercial success.

Here’s what we covered in this episode:

- Why procurement is becoming more important within companies and what that means for agencies
- How agencies can make themselves more attractive to companies with in-house procurement
- The role of intermediaries in helping clients find new agencies to work with vs direct search
- Tina's insights on the shift from agency-of-record relationships to project-based work and what this means for different sized agencies
- The current state of AI adoption in marketing – and how to initiate conversations about AI with procurement
- How to position “Output-based” pricing to Procurement 
…and lots more. 

You can connect with Tina Fegent here on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tina-fegent-fcips-2103573/

If you'd like to assess your “AI readiness for client retention and growth in your agency, you can go to my and take the quiz. It takes 3-5 minutes and you'll receive a report with tips for how you can incorporate AI into your client management workflow. https://accountmanagementskills.com/ai-account-manager-quiz/

And if you don't want to miss my news on agency account management, mini trainings, podcast episodes etc sign up to my weekly newsletter here: https://bit.ly/AMSUpdates</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 145.&nbsp; This episode is going to be particularly useful if you want to understand how to engage with your client’s marketing procurement department and understand the world through their eyes when selecting an agency to work with.<br><br>I'm delighted that global marketing procurement consultant, Tina Fegent, has joined me for a second time on the podcast. Tina is a leading expert and pioneer in marketing procurement, with over 30 years of experience shaping the industry. She launched her consultancy in 2006 to help brands unlock greater value from their marketing spend through strategic, commercially focused procurement. Tina has worked with global brands and agencies to drive efficiencies, improve ROI, and foster better client–agency relationships. She is a regular speaker, advisor, and industry commentator, known for advocating collaboration between marketing and procurement. Passionate about innovation and impact, Tina continues to influence best practices and champion the evolving role of procurement in delivering creative and commercial success.<br><br>Here’s what we covered in this episode:<br><br>- Why procurement is becoming more important within companies and what that means for agencies<br>- How agencies can make themselves more attractive to companies with in-house procurement<br>- The role of intermediaries in helping clients find new agencies to work with vs direct search<br>- Tina's insights on the shift from agency-of-record relationships to project-based work and what this means for different sized agencies<br>- The current state of AI adoption in marketing – and how to initiate conversations about AI with procurement<br>- How to position “Output-based” pricing to Procurement&nbsp;<br>…and lots more.&nbsp;<br><br>You can connect with Tina Fegent here on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tina-fegent-fcips-2103573/<br><br>If you'd like to assess your “AI readiness for client retention and growth in your agency, you can go to my and take the quiz. It takes 3-5 minutes and you'll receive a report with tips for how you can incorporate AI into your client management workflow. https://accountmanagementskills.com/ai-account-manager-quiz/<br><br>And if you don't want to miss my news on agency account management, mini trainings, podcast episodes etc sign up to my weekly newsletter here: https://bit.ly/AMSUpdates</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2025 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/w0vr1mkw.mp3" length="58203344" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/b323c980-8422-11f0-92a7-5dc1118ead75/b323cb20-8422-11f0-83ee-dd8b55246a09.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2909</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 145.  This episode is going to be particularly useful if you want to understand how to engage with your client’s marketing procurement department and understand the world through their eyes when selecting an agency to work with.

I'm delighted that global marketing procurement consultant, Tina Fegent, has joined me for a second time on the podcast. Tina is a leading expert and pioneer in marketing procurement, with over 30 years of experience shaping the industry. She launched her consultancy in 2006 to help brands unlock greater value from their marketing spend through strategic, commercially focused procurement. Tina has worked with global brands and agencies to drive efficiencies, improve ROI, and foster better client–agency relationships. She is a regular speaker, advisor, and industry commentator, known for advocating collaboration between marketing and procurement. Passionate about innovation and impact, Tina continues to influence best practices and champion the evolving role of procurement in delivering creative and commercial success.

Here’s what we covered in this episode:

- Why procurement is becoming more important within companies and what that means for agencies
- How agencies can make themselves more attractive to companies with in-house procurement
- The role of intermediaries in helping clients find new agencies to work with vs direct search
- Tina's insights on the shift from agency-of-record relationships to project-based work and what this means for different sized agencies
- The current state of AI adoption in marketing – and how to initiate conversations about AI with procurement
- How to position “Output-based” pricing to Procurement 
…and lots more. 

You can connect with Tina Fegent here on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tina-fegent-fcips-2103573/

If you'd like to assess your “AI readiness for client retention and growth in your agency, you can go to my and take the quiz. It takes 3-5 minutes and you'll receive a report with tips for how you can incorporate AI into your client management workflow. https://accountmanagementskills.com/ai-account-manager-quiz/

And if you don't want to miss my news on agency account management, mini trainings, podcast episodes etc sign up to my weekly newsletter here: https://bit.ly/AMSUpdates</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 145.  This episode is going to be particularly useful if you want to understand how to engage with your client’s marketing procurement department and understand the world through their eyes when selecting an agency to work with.

I'm delighted that global marketing procurement consultant, Tina Fegent, has joined me for a second time on the podcast. Tina is a leading expert and pioneer in marketing procurement, with over 30 years of experience shaping the industry. She launched her consultancy in 2006 to help brands unlock greater value from their marketing spend through strategic, commercially focused procurement. Tina has worked with global brands and agencies to drive efficiencies, improve ROI, and foster better client–agency relationships. She is a regular speaker, advisor, and industry commentator, known for advocating collaboration between marketing and procurement. Passionate about innovation and impact, Tina continues to influence best practices and champion the evolving role of procurement in delivering creative and commercial success.

Here’s what we covered in this episode:

- Why procurement is becoming more important within companies and what that means for agencies
- How agencies can make themselves more attractive to companies with in-house procurement
- The role of intermediaries in helping clients find new agencies to work with vs direct search
- Tina's insights on the shift from agency-of-record relationships to project-based work and what this means for different sized agencies
- The current state of AI adoption in marketing – and how to initiate conversations about AI with procurement
- How to position “Output-based” pricing to Procurement 
…and lots more. 

You can connect with Tina Fegent here on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tina-fegent-fcips-2103573/

If you'd like to assess your “AI readiness for client retention and growth in your agency, you can go to my and take the quiz. It takes 3-5 minutes and you'll receive a report with tips for how you can incorporate AI into your client management workflow. https://accountmanagementskills.com/ai-account-manager-quiz/

And if you don't want to miss my news on agency account management, mini trainings, podcast episodes etc sign up to my weekly newsletter here: https://bit.ly/AMSUpdates</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>procurement, marketing agency, account management</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>4Ps of AI-enabled account management, with Jenny Plant</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/6nrr5yrn-4ps-of-ai-enabled-account-management-with-jenny-plant</link>
      <itunes:title>4Ps of AI-enabled account management, with Jenny Plant</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>144</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">81563p60</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 144. In this episode, Jenny Plant discusses how account managers can remain indispensable in the face of AI's transformative impact on marketing. 
She explores the current AI landscape from the perspectives of clients, agency owners, and account managers, introducing her Four P's framework for integrating AI into account management. 
The episode highlights real-world examples of AI applications, the importance of developing AI skills, and common pitfalls to avoid. Jenny concludes by emphasizing the necessity for account managers to lead the change in their roles as AI continues to evolve.
The AI-enabled Account Accelerator is my flagship training and coaching programme that’s designed to help agencies unlock consistent client growth and retention – powered by both proven strategy and smart AI integration. This isn’t just theory. Past participants have seen up to 45% growth in revenue from existing clients.

You’ll learn how to:

Spot the best opportunities to grow your accounts faster
Catch and fix client issues before they escalate
Use AI to prepare for meetings, summarise calls, and personalise comms
Share fresh ideas with confidence and keep your clients loyal and happy
Apply a repeatable, strategic process that your whole team can follow

Whether you join the 12-week Sprint or the one-year programme, you’ll walk away with practical tools, coaching, and ongoing support. It’s for anyone who is managing client relationships and tasked with retaining and growing the account.

The next intake kicks off on 16th September 2025 and we’ve already taken confirmed bookings. Visit the Account Accelerator training page and find out more or book a quick call with me to discuss if it’s the right fit. https://www.accountmanagementskills/account-accelerator</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 144. In this episode, Jenny Plant discusses how account managers can remain indispensable in the face of AI's transformative impact on marketing.&nbsp;<br>She explores the current AI landscape from the perspectives of clients, agency owners, and account managers, introducing her Four P's framework for integrating AI into account management.&nbsp;<br>The episode highlights real-world examples of AI applications, the importance of developing AI skills, and common pitfalls to avoid. Jenny concludes by emphasizing the necessity for account managers to lead the change in their roles as AI continues to evolve.<br>The AI-enabled Account Accelerator is my flagship training and coaching programme that’s designed to help agencies unlock consistent client growth and retention – powered by both proven strategy and smart AI integration. This isn’t just theory. Past participants have seen up to 45% growth in revenue from existing clients.<br><br>You’ll learn how to:<br><br>Spot the best opportunities to grow your accounts faster<br>Catch and fix client issues before they escalate<br>Use AI to prepare for meetings, summarise calls, and personalise comms<br>Share fresh ideas with confidence and keep your clients loyal and happy<br>Apply a repeatable, strategic process that your whole team can follow<br><br>Whether you join the 12-week Sprint or the one-year programme, you’ll walk away with practical tools, coaching, and ongoing support. It’s for anyone who is managing client relationships and tasked with retaining and growing the account.<br><br>The next intake kicks off on 16th September 2025 and we’ve already taken confirmed bookings. Visit the Account Accelerator training page and find out more or book a quick call with me to discuss if it’s the right fit. https://www.accountmanagementskills/account-accelerator</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2025 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8k47zyvw.mp3" length="38333565" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/13b1c550-7918-11f0-a5cc-3f7ce04d3fcb/13b1c760-7918-11f0-b227-8b10ebc4274c.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>1916</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 144. In this episode, Jenny Plant discusses how account managers can remain indispensable in the face of AI's transformative impact on marketing. 
She explores the current AI landscape from the perspectives of clients, agency owners, and account managers, introducing her Four P's framework for integrating AI into account management. 
The episode highlights real-world examples of AI applications, the importance of developing AI skills, and common pitfalls to avoid. Jenny concludes by emphasizing the necessity for account managers to lead the change in their roles as AI continues to evolve.
The AI-enabled Account Accelerator is my flagship training and coaching programme that’s designed to help agencies unlock consistent client growth and retention – powered by both proven strategy and smart AI integration. This isn’t just theory. Past participants have seen up to 45% growth in revenue from existing clients.

You’ll learn how to:

Spot the best opportunities to grow your accounts faster
Catch and fix client issues before they escalate
Use AI to prepare for meetings, summarise calls, and personalise comms
Share fresh ideas with confidence and keep your clients loyal and happy
Apply a repeatable, strategic process that your whole team can follow

Whether you join the 12-week Sprint or the one-year programme, you’ll walk away with practical tools, coaching, and ongoing support. It’s for anyone who is managing client relationships and tasked with retaining and growing the account.

The next intake kicks off on 16th September 2025 and we’ve already taken confirmed bookings. Visit the Account Accelerator training page and find out more or book a quick call with me to discuss if it’s the right fit. https://www.accountmanagementskills/account-accelerator</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 144. In this episode, Jenny Plant discusses how account managers can remain indispensable in the face of AI's transformative impact on marketing. 
She explores the current AI landscape from the perspectives of clients, agency owners, and account managers, introducing her Four P's framework for integrating AI into account management. 
The episode highlights real-world examples of AI applications, the importance of developing AI skills, and common pitfalls to avoid. Jenny concludes by emphasizing the necessity for account managers to lead the change in their roles as AI continues to evolve.
The AI-enabled Account Accelerator is my flagship training and coaching programme that’s designed to help agencies unlock consistent client growth and retention – powered by both proven strategy and smart AI integration. This isn’t just theory. Past participants have seen up to 45% growth in revenue from existing clients.

You’ll learn how to:

Spot the best opportunities to grow your accounts faster
Catch and fix client issues before they escalate
Use AI to prepare for meetings, summarise calls, and personalise comms
Share fresh ideas with confidence and keep your clients loyal and happy
Apply a repeatable, strategic process that your whole team can follow

Whether you join the 12-week Sprint or the one-year programme, you’ll walk away with practical tools, coaching, and ongoing support. It’s for anyone who is managing client relationships and tasked with retaining and growing the account.

The next intake kicks off on 16th September 2025 and we’ve already taken confirmed bookings. Visit the Account Accelerator training page and find out more or book a quick call with me to discuss if it’s the right fit. https://www.accountmanagementskills/account-accelerator</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>ai marketing, ai landscape, ai business, ai for creative agencies</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Practical AI for Non-Techie Agency Leaders, with Heather Murray</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/xn14jp58-practical-ai-for-non-techie-agency-leaders-with-heather-murray</link>
      <itunes:title>Practical AI for Non-Techie Agency Leaders, with Heather Murray</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>143</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">703p3ln1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 143. This episode continues our theme of AI integration into the agency business operations. My guest is Heather Murray, a generative AI expert, Top 5 MarTech influencer globally, international speaker and Founder of AI for Non-Techies (award-winning AI training and learning hub). Regularly featured in Forbes magazine, Heather brings energy and enthusiasm to the world of AI. Her accessible, jargon-free approach helps people overcome confusion, reluctance and fear when it comes to where to start. Heather has formed powerful working partnerships with the likes of Toyota, Mitsubishi and Salesforce, and drove $75m in client pipeline in 2023, all with the help of AI. Passionate about purposeful business, Heather uses 20% of all profits to run grassroots community work with isolated elderly people.

Following my AI for client retention and growth webinar in July 2025, I’ve had lots of conversations with agency owners and account managers who are starting to embrace AI in their daily workflows.

Here's what we cover in this chat:
- Why agency owners don’t need to be tech experts to thrive with AI 
- How AI can help you deliver more value to clients without burning out the team
- The risks of ignoring AI - and how to start experimenting safely and smartly

if you're thinking, "I really need to get serious about using AI in my account management role," then let me tell you about something coming up that could be perfect for you if you’re listening to this before September 16th 2025.

The AI-enabled Account Accelerator is my flagship training and coaching programme that’s designed to help agencies unlock consistent client growth and retention - powered by both proven strategy and smart AI integration. This isn’t just theory. Past participants have seen up to 45% growth in revenue from existing clients. 

You’ll learn how to:
✅ Spot the best opportunities to grow your accounts faster
✅ Catch and fix client issues before they escalate
✅ Use AI to prepare for meetings, summarise calls, and personalise comms
✅ Share fresh ideas with confidence and keep your clients loyal and happy
✅ Apply a repeatable, strategic process that your whole team can follow

Whether you join the 12-week Sprint or the one-year programme, you'll walk away with practical tools, coaching, and ongoing support. It’s for anyone who is managing client relationships and tasked with retaining and growing the account.

The next intake kicks off on 16th September 2025 and we've already taken confirmed bookings. Head to https://www.accountmanagementskills.com  to find out more or book a quick call with me to discuss if it’s the right fit.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 143. This episode continues our theme of AI integration into the agency business operations. My guest is Heather Murray, a generative AI expert, Top 5 MarTech influencer globally, international speaker and Founder of AI for Non-Techies (award-winning AI training and learning hub). Regularly featured in Forbes magazine, Heather brings energy and enthusiasm to the world of AI. Her accessible, jargon-free approach helps people overcome confusion, reluctance and fear when it comes to where to start. Heather has formed powerful working partnerships with the likes of Toyota, Mitsubishi and Salesforce, and drove $75m in client pipeline in 2023, all with the help of AI. Passionate about purposeful business, Heather uses 20% of all profits to run grassroots community work with isolated elderly people.<br><br>Following my AI for client retention and growth webinar in July 2025, I’ve had lots of conversations with agency owners and account managers who are starting to embrace AI in their daily workflows.<br><br>Here's what we cover in this chat:<br>- Why agency owners don’t need to be tech experts to thrive with AI&nbsp;<br>- How AI can help you deliver more value to clients without burning out the team<br>- The risks of ignoring AI - and how to start experimenting safely and smartly<br><br>if you're thinking, "I really need to get serious about using AI in my account management role," then let me tell you about something coming up that could be perfect for you if you’re listening to this before September 16th 2025.<br><br>The AI-enabled Account Accelerator is my flagship training and coaching programme that’s designed to help agencies unlock consistent client growth and retention - powered by both proven strategy and smart AI integration. This isn’t just theory. Past participants have seen up to 45% growth in revenue from existing clients.&nbsp;<br><br>You’ll learn how to:<br>✅ Spot the best opportunities to grow your accounts faster<br>✅ Catch and fix client issues before they escalate<br>✅ Use AI to prepare for meetings, summarise calls, and personalise comms<br>✅ Share fresh ideas with confidence and keep your clients loyal and happy<br>✅ Apply a repeatable, strategic process that your whole team can follow<br><br>Whether you join the 12-week Sprint or the one-year programme, you'll walk away with practical tools, coaching, and ongoing support. It’s for anyone who is managing client relationships and tasked with retaining and growing the account.<br><br>The next intake kicks off on 16th September 2025 and we've already taken confirmed bookings. Head to https://www.accountmanagementskills.com&nbsp; to find out more or book a quick call with me to discuss if it’s the right fit.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2025 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8mk79r68.mp3" length="49115867" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/ef226740-670c-11f0-89fe-0596f6097ab2/ef2268c0-670c-11f0-9698-8b1d80664728.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2455</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 143. This episode continues our theme of AI integration into the agency business operations. My guest is Heather Murray, a generative AI expert, Top 5 MarTech influencer globally, international speaker and Founder of AI for Non-Techies (award-winning AI training and learning hub). Regularly featured in Forbes magazine, Heather brings energy and enthusiasm to the world of AI. Her accessible, jargon-free approach helps people overcome confusion, reluctance and fear when it comes to where to start. Heather has formed powerful working partnerships with the likes of Toyota, Mitsubishi and Salesforce, and drove $75m in client pipeline in 2023, all with the help of AI. Passionate about purposeful business, Heather uses 20% of all profits to run grassroots community work with isolated elderly people.

Following my AI for client retention and growth webinar in July 2025, I’ve had lots of conversations with agency owners and account managers who are starting to embrace AI in their daily workflows.

Here's what we cover in this chat:
- Why agency owners don’t need to be tech experts to thrive with AI 
- How AI can help you deliver more value to clients without burning out the team
- The risks of ignoring AI - and how to start experimenting safely and smartly

if you're thinking, "I really need to get serious about using AI in my account management role," then let me tell you about something coming up that could be perfect for you if you’re listening to this before September 16th 2025.

The AI-enabled Account Accelerator is my flagship training and coaching programme that’s designed to help agencies unlock consistent client growth and retention - powered by both proven strategy and smart AI integration. This isn’t just theory. Past participants have seen up to 45% growth in revenue from existing clients. 

You’ll learn how to:
✅ Spot the best opportunities to grow your accounts faster
✅ Catch and fix client issues before they escalate
✅ Use AI to prepare for meetings, summarise calls, and personalise comms
✅ Share fresh ideas with confidence and keep your clients loyal and happy
✅ Apply a repeatable, strategic process that your whole team can follow

Whether you join the 12-week Sprint or the one-year programme, you'll walk away with practical tools, coaching, and ongoing support. It’s for anyone who is managing client relationships and tasked with retaining and growing the account.

The next intake kicks off on 16th September 2025 and we've already taken confirmed bookings. Head to https://www.accountmanagementskills.com  to find out more or book a quick call with me to discuss if it’s the right fit.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 143. This episode continues our theme of AI integration into the agency business operations. My guest is Heather Murray, a generative AI expert, Top 5 MarTech influencer globally, international speaker and Founder of AI for Non-Techies (award-winning AI training and learning hub). Regularly featured in Forbes magazine, Heather brings energy and enthusiasm to the world of AI. Her accessible, jargon-free approach helps people overcome confusion, reluctance and fear when it comes to where to start. Heather has formed powerful working partnerships with the likes of Toyota, Mitsubishi and Salesforce, and drove $75m in client pipeline in 2023, all with the help of AI. Passionate about purposeful business, Heather uses 20% of all profits to run grassroots community work with isolated elderly people.

Following my AI for client retention and growth webinar in July 2025, I’ve had lots of conversations with agency owners and account managers who are starting to embrace AI in their daily workflows.

Here's what we cover in this chat:
- Why agency owners don’t need to be tech experts to thrive with AI 
- How AI can help you deliver more value to clients without burning out the team
- The risks of ignoring AI - and how to start experimenting safely and smartly

if you're thinking, "I really need to get serious about using AI in my account management role," then let me tell you about something coming up that could be perfect for you if you’re listening to this before September 16th 2025.

The AI-enabled Account Accelerator is my flagship training and coaching programme that’s designed to help agencies unlock consistent client growth and retention - powered by both proven strategy and smart AI integration. This isn’t just theory. Past participants have seen up to 45% growth in revenue from existing clients. 

You’ll learn how to:
✅ Spot the best opportunities to grow your accounts faster
✅ Catch and fix client issues before they escalate
✅ Use AI to prepare for meetings, summarise calls, and personalise comms
✅ Share fresh ideas with confidence and keep your clients loyal and happy
✅ Apply a repeatable, strategic process that your whole team can follow

Whether you join the 12-week Sprint or the one-year programme, you'll walk away with practical tools, coaching, and ongoing support. It’s for anyone who is managing client relationships and tasked with retaining and growing the account.

The next intake kicks off on 16th September 2025 and we've already taken confirmed bookings. Head to https://www.accountmanagementskills.com  to find out more or book a quick call with me to discuss if it’s the right fit.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>account management AI for client retention</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Mastering agency niching: How to boost your pipeline and navigate AI, with Steve Guberman</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/08j0k3j8-mastering-agency-niching-how-to-boost-your-pipeline-and-navigate-ai-with-steve-guberman</link>
      <itunes:title>Mastering agency niching: How to boost your pipeline and navigate AI, with Steve Guberman</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>142</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">41pmzjn0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 142. I'm chatting with Steve Guberman. With over 25 years in the creative, marketing, advertising, and public relations industry, including a decade spent running and eventually selling his own successful agency, Steve now channels his expertise into coaching agency owners. As the founder of Agency Outsight, Steve helps owners unearth their challenges, define their goals, and conquer them all, enabling them to build and run the agency of their dreams.

During this chat, we cover the biggest challenges agency owners are facing today, namely:
- pipeline pressures
- the impact of AI
- the hot topic of niching
- why strong account management remains key to the growth and longevity of your client relationships
- the powerful impact of humility and empathy in agency leadership
- and practical advice on initiating meaningful conversations to re-engage with your clients. 

You can connect with Steve Guberman via LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/agencycoach/  or https://www.linkedin.com/company/agency-outsight/
And find more information on the Agency Outsight website: https://www.agencyoutsight.com/   and podcast: https://www.agencyoutsight.com/podcast/

You can find more podcast episodes, more details about my account retention and growth training, and subscribe to my newsletter on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 142. I'm chatting with Steve Guberman. With over 25 years in the creative, marketing, advertising, and public relations industry, including a decade spent running and eventually selling his own successful agency, Steve now channels his expertise into coaching agency owners. As the founder of Agency Outsight, Steve helps owners unearth their challenges, define their goals, and conquer them all, enabling them to build and run the agency of their dreams.<br><br>During this chat, we cover the biggest challenges agency owners are facing today, namely:<br>- pipeline pressures<br>- the impact of AI<br>- the hot topic of niching<br>- why strong account management remains key to the growth and longevity of your client relationships<br>- the powerful impact of humility and empathy in agency leadership<br>- and practical advice on initiating meaningful conversations to re-engage with your clients.&nbsp;<br><br>You can connect with Steve Guberman via LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/agencycoach/&nbsp; or https://www.linkedin.com/company/agency-outsight/<br>And find more information on the Agency Outsight website: https://www.agencyoutsight.com/ &nbsp; and podcast: https://www.agencyoutsight.com/podcast/<br><br>You can find more podcast episodes, more details about my account retention and growth training, and subscribe to my newsletter on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2025 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8qy70xp8.mp3" length="47680700" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/83674c50-618a-11f0-92a6-95041d8737b8/83674e00-618a-11f0-9ef2-e73db48e009b.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2383</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 142. I'm chatting with Steve Guberman. With over 25 years in the creative, marketing, advertising, and public relations industry, including a decade spent running and eventually selling his own successful agency, Steve now channels his expertise into coaching agency owners. As the founder of Agency Outsight, Steve helps owners unearth their challenges, define their goals, and conquer them all, enabling them to build and run the agency of their dreams.

During this chat, we cover the biggest challenges agency owners are facing today, namely:
- pipeline pressures
- the impact of AI
- the hot topic of niching
- why strong account management remains key to the growth and longevity of your client relationships
- the powerful impact of humility and empathy in agency leadership
- and practical advice on initiating meaningful conversations to re-engage with your clients. 

You can connect with Steve Guberman via LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/agencycoach/  or https://www.linkedin.com/company/agency-outsight/
And find more information on the Agency Outsight website: https://www.agencyoutsight.com/   and podcast: https://www.agencyoutsight.com/podcast/

You can find more podcast episodes, more details about my account retention and growth training, and subscribe to my newsletter on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 142. I'm chatting with Steve Guberman. With over 25 years in the creative, marketing, advertising, and public relations industry, including a decade spent running and eventually selling his own successful agency, Steve now channels his expertise into coaching agency owners. As the founder of Agency Outsight, Steve helps owners unearth their challenges, define their goals, and conquer them all, enabling them to build and run the agency of their dreams.

During this chat, we cover the biggest challenges agency owners are facing today, namely:
- pipeline pressures
- the impact of AI
- the hot topic of niching
- why strong account management remains key to the growth and longevity of your client relationships
- the powerful impact of humility and empathy in agency leadership
- and practical advice on initiating meaningful conversations to re-engage with your clients. 

You can connect with Steve Guberman via LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/agencycoach/  or https://www.linkedin.com/company/agency-outsight/
And find more information on the Agency Outsight website: https://www.agencyoutsight.com/   and podcast: https://www.agencyoutsight.com/podcast/

You can find more podcast episodes, more details about my account retention and growth training, and subscribe to my newsletter on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>sales pipelines, impact of AI, creative agencies, account management</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Case for Splitting Account Management &amp; Project Management, with Brett Harned</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/5nzxk7xn-the-case-for-splitting-account-management-project-management-with-brett-harned</link>
      <itunes:title>The Case for Splitting Account Management &amp; Project Management, with Brett Harned</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>141</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">80z7xn71</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 141. I'm chatting to Brett Harned, a consultant, coach, and author with 20+ years of experience leading digital and creative teams. He helps organisations solve people, process, and culture challenges with a strategic, human-centred approach. A longtime voice in the PM community, Brett founded the Digital PM Summit, wrote Project Management for Humans, and shares practical insights at BrettHarned.com.
If you've ever wondered whether account management and project management should be separate roles in your agency, or maybe how AI might be reshaping both of these roles, then this episode is going to be packed with insights for you. 
We talk about: 
•	what makes a successful hybrid AM-PM and why it's so hard to find one
•	the structure and support needed to make hybrid roles work
•	how to start separating AM and PM roles without blowing up your team or your client relationships
•	what agencies need to do now to adapt to AI
•	the project-based future of our industry
•	and why focusing on people not just process or tools is the secret to great project delivery. 

If you are currently navigating the complexities of the AM/PM roles in your agency, or you're thinking about making the switch, then why not come and join Brett and I, and David C Baker, for the annual AM and PM seminar in Atlanta on 23rd &amp; 24th September 2025. 
And, if you want to stay ahead on topics like this and anything to do with client relationship management, agency growth, and the ever-evolving role of AI, then make sure you're signed up to my newsletter, in which I share practical tips, new podcast episodes, updates and mini trainings. 
Visit my website to subscribe and there you’ll also find my AI-readiness quiz. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 141. I'm chatting to Brett Harned, a consultant, coach, and author with 20+ years of experience leading digital and creative teams. He helps organisations solve people, process, and culture challenges with a strategic, human-centred approach. A longtime voice in the PM community, Brett founded the Digital PM Summit, wrote Project Management for Humans, and shares practical insights at BrettHarned.com.<br><br></div><div>If you've ever wondered whether account management and project management should be separate roles in your agency, or maybe how AI might be reshaping both of these roles, then this episode is packed with insights for you.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>We talk about:&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;what makes a successful hybrid AM-PM and why it's so hard to find one</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;the structure and support needed to make hybrid roles work</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how to start separating AM and PM roles without blowing up your team or your client relationships</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;what agencies need to do now to adapt to AI</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;the project-based future of our industry</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;and why focusing on people not just process or tools is the secret to great project delivery.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>If you are currently navigating the complexities of the AM/PM roles in your agency, or you're thinking about making the switch, then why not come and join Brett and I, and David C Baker, for the annual AM and PM seminar in Atlanta on 23rd &amp; 24th September 2025.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>And, if you want to stay ahead on topics like this and anything to do with client relationship management, agency growth, and the ever-evolving role of AI, then make sure you're signed up to my newsletter, in which I share practical tips, new podcast episodes, updates and mini trainings.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Visit my website to subscribe and there you’ll also find my AI-readiness quiz. <a href="https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/">https://www.accountmanagementskills.com<br></a><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2025 08:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/84v4pkx8.mp3" length="54324683" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/53d9aa30-5b0c-11f0-901f-97ccb2b36ff5/53d9abc0-5b0c-11f0-b57d-39f32ee06f55.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2716</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 141. I'm chatting to Brett Harned, a consultant, coach, and author with 20+ years of experience leading digital and creative teams. He helps organisations solve people, process, and culture challenges with a strategic, human-centred approach. A longtime voice in the PM community, Brett founded the Digital PM Summit, wrote Project Management for Humans, and shares practical insights at BrettHarned.com.
If you've ever wondered whether account management and project management should be separate roles in your agency, or maybe how AI might be reshaping both of these roles, then this episode is going to be packed with insights for you. 
We talk about: 
•	what makes a successful hybrid AM-PM and why it's so hard to find one
•	the structure and support needed to make hybrid roles work
•	how to start separating AM and PM roles without blowing up your team or your client relationships
•	what agencies need to do now to adapt to AI
•	the project-based future of our industry
•	and why focusing on people not just process or tools is the secret to great project delivery. 

If you are currently navigating the complexities of the AM/PM roles in your agency, or you're thinking about making the switch, then why not come and join Brett and I, and David C Baker, for the annual AM and PM seminar in Atlanta on 23rd &amp; 24th September 2025. 
And, if you want to stay ahead on topics like this and anything to do with client relationship management, agency growth, and the ever-evolving role of AI, then make sure you're signed up to my newsletter, in which I share practical tips, new podcast episodes, updates and mini trainings. 
Visit my website to subscribe and there you’ll also find my AI-readiness quiz. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 141. I'm chatting to Brett Harned, a consultant, coach, and author with 20+ years of experience leading digital and creative teams. He helps organisations solve people, process, and culture challenges with a strategic, human-centred approach. A longtime voice in the PM community, Brett founded the Digital PM Summit, wrote Project Management for Humans, and shares practical insights at BrettHarned.com.
If you've ever wondered whether account management and project management should be separate roles in your agency, or maybe how AI might be reshaping both of these roles, then this episode is going to be packed with insights for you. 
We talk about: 
•	what makes a successful hybrid AM-PM and why it's so hard to find one
•	the structure and support needed to make hybrid roles work
•	how to start separating AM and PM roles without blowing up your team or your client relationships
•	what agencies need to do now to adapt to AI
•	the project-based future of our industry
•	and why focusing on people not just process or tools is the secret to great project delivery. 

If you are currently navigating the complexities of the AM/PM roles in your agency, or you're thinking about making the switch, then why not come and join Brett and I, and David C Baker, for the annual AM and PM seminar in Atlanta on 23rd &amp; 24th September 2025. 
And, if you want to stay ahead on topics like this and anything to do with client relationship management, agency growth, and the ever-evolving role of AI, then make sure you're signed up to my newsletter, in which I share practical tips, new podcast episodes, updates and mini trainings. 
Visit my website to subscribe and there you’ll also find my AI-readiness quiz. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>project management, adapting to AI, AI for creative agencies, account management</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Inside Client Services: A CSD's Take on Global Expansion, with Laura Smales</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/0nj0k0jn-inside-client-services-a-csd-s-take-on-global-expansion-with-laura-smales</link>
      <itunes:title>Inside Client Services: A CSD's Take on Global Expansion, with Laura Smales</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>140</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">40pmzmn1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 140, with Laura Smales, Client Services Director at Creative search marketing agency, Rise At Seven.

This episode is going to be particularly interesting if you are a CSD in an agency and curious how another one operates.

Here’s what we covered in this episode:

How Rise at Seven differentiates themselves from other agencies

Why Laura and her client service team prioritise solving the client’s biggest business challenge and how her team works with their internal craft and strategy team

Laura also shares how the agency won over global clients and have extended their global footprint beyond the UK market to Europe and the US

A walk through their proprietary AI-driven methodologies and tools they use to help get clients the demand or discoverability they want

Laura’s practical tips for what makes a superb account manager in this AI-driven world and how to build trust and relationship stickiness with your clients

Do reach out to her on LinkedIn, if you’re keen to learn more about how Rise At Seven is shaping global agency-client partnerships.

And if you're curious about how AI can support account managers not only in retaining clients but also in growing global accounts – don’t miss my upcoming live webinar on 10th July 2025. You can register here: https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/HqfuUMsbSDu_qKpnhZhlEg</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 140, with Laura Smales, Client Services Director at Creative search marketing agency, Rise At Seven.<br><br>This episode is going to be particularly interesting if you are a CSD in an agency and curious how another one operates.<br><br>Here’s what we covered in this episode:<br><br>How Rise at Seven differentiates themselves from other agencies<br><br>Why Laura and her client service team prioritise solving the client’s biggest business challenge and how her team works with their internal craft and strategy team<br><br>Laura also shares how the agency won over global clients and have extended their global footprint beyond the UK market to Europe and the US<br><br>A walk through their proprietary AI-driven methodologies and tools they use to help get clients the demand or discoverability they want<br><br>Laura’s practical tips for what makes a superb account manager in this AI-driven world and how to build trust and relationship stickiness with your clients<br><br>Do reach out to her on LinkedIn, if you’re keen to learn more about how Rise At Seven is shaping global agency-client partnerships. <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/laura-smales-0a053650/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/laura-smales-0a053650/</a><br><br>And if you're curious about how AI can support account managers not only in retaining clients but also in growing global accounts – don’t miss my upcoming live webinar on 10th July 2025. You can register here: <a href="https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/HqfuUMsbSDu_qKpnhZhlEg">https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/HqfuUMsbSDu_qKpnhZhlEg</a></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2025 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/895z2mr8.mp3" length="56897222" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/ab78c220-5104-11f0-92b6-bdd20d097abd/ab78c3b0-5104-11f0-beca-e3fa1b70ef0b.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2844</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 140, with Laura Smales, Client Services Director at Creative search marketing agency, Rise At Seven.

This episode is going to be particularly interesting if you are a CSD in an agency and curious how another one operates.

Here’s what we covered in this episode:

How Rise at Seven differentiates themselves from other agencies

Why Laura and her client service team prioritise solving the client’s biggest business challenge and how her team works with their internal craft and strategy team

Laura also shares how the agency won over global clients and have extended their global footprint beyond the UK market to Europe and the US

A walk through their proprietary AI-driven methodologies and tools they use to help get clients the demand or discoverability they want

Laura’s practical tips for what makes a superb account manager in this AI-driven world and how to build trust and relationship stickiness with your clients

Do reach out to her on LinkedIn, if you’re keen to learn more about how Rise At Seven is shaping global agency-client partnerships.

And if you're curious about how AI can support account managers not only in retaining clients but also in growing global accounts – don’t miss my upcoming live webinar on 10th July 2025. You can register here: https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/HqfuUMsbSDu_qKpnhZhlEg</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 140, with Laura Smales, Client Services Director at Creative search marketing agency, Rise At Seven.

This episode is going to be particularly interesting if you are a CSD in an agency and curious how another one operates.

Here’s what we covered in this episode:

How Rise at Seven differentiates themselves from other agencies

Why Laura and her client service team prioritise solving the client’s biggest business challenge and how her team works with their internal craft and strategy team

Laura also shares how the agency won over global clients and have extended their global footprint beyond the UK market to Europe and the US

A walk through their proprietary AI-driven methodologies and tools they use to help get clients the demand or discoverability they want

Laura’s practical tips for what makes a superb account manager in this AI-driven world and how to build trust and relationship stickiness with your clients

Do reach out to her on LinkedIn, if you’re keen to learn more about how Rise At Seven is shaping global agency-client partnerships.

And if you're curious about how AI can support account managers not only in retaining clients but also in growing global accounts – don’t miss my upcoming live webinar on 10th July 2025. You can register here: https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/HqfuUMsbSDu_qKpnhZhlEg</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>CSD, creative agency, client services</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Conversations not presentations - mastering sales, with Blair Enns</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/rn7y5q3n-conversations-not-presentations-mastering-sales-with-blair-enns</link>
      <itunes:title>Conversations not presentations - mastering sales, with Blair Enns</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>139</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">k18m9x70</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 139. 

My guest is Blair Enns - a globally recognised author, speaker and the founder of Win Without Pitching, a sales training company that has transformed how creative professionals position and sell their expertise

Blair is the author of three books;

o   The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, a rallying cry for creative agencies to stop giving away their thinking for free.

o   Pricing Creativity, a guide to pricing your work based on value, not hours.

o   And now, his latest book - The Four Conversations a model for selling expertise

If you’ve ever felt stuck in the sales process, unsure how to talk about money, or like you’re chasing clients instead of leading them - this episode is for you.

You can connect with Blair Enns here: 
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairenns/
Website: http://www.winwithoutpitching.com/
Books: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Books-Blair-Enns/s?rh=n%3A266239%2Cp_27%3ABlair%2BEnns</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 139.&nbsp;<br><br>My guest is Blair Enns - a globally recognised author, speaker and the founder of Win Without Pitching, a sales training company that has transformed how creative professionals position and sell their expertise<br><br>Blair is the author of three books;<br><br>o &nbsp; The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, a rallying cry for creative agencies to stop giving away their thinking for free.<br><br>o &nbsp; Pricing Creativity, a guide to pricing your work based on value, not hours.<br><br>o &nbsp; And now, his latest book - The Four Conversations a model for selling expertise<br><br>If you’ve ever felt stuck in the sales process, unsure how to talk about money, or like you’re chasing clients instead of leading them - this episode is for you.<br><br>You can connect with Blair Enns here:&nbsp;<br>LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairenns/<br>Website: http://www.winwithoutpitching.com/<br>Books: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Books-Blair-Enns/s?rh=n%3A266239%2Cp_27%3ABlair%2BEnns</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2025 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8k47y51w.mp3" length="50497222" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/54e33800-42ec-11f0-a2b2-85c27c2e1f46/54e33ac0-42ec-11f0-b3db-27153952b228.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2524</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 139. 

My guest is Blair Enns - a globally recognised author, speaker and the founder of Win Without Pitching, a sales training company that has transformed how creative professionals position and sell their expertise

Blair is the author of three books;

o   The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, a rallying cry for creative agencies to stop giving away their thinking for free.

o   Pricing Creativity, a guide to pricing your work based on value, not hours.

o   And now, his latest book - The Four Conversations a model for selling expertise

If you’ve ever felt stuck in the sales process, unsure how to talk about money, or like you’re chasing clients instead of leading them - this episode is for you.

You can connect with Blair Enns here: 
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairenns/
Website: http://www.winwithoutpitching.com/
Books: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Books-Blair-Enns/s?rh=n%3A266239%2Cp_27%3ABlair%2BEnns</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 139. 

My guest is Blair Enns - a globally recognised author, speaker and the founder of Win Without Pitching, a sales training company that has transformed how creative professionals position and sell their expertise

Blair is the author of three books;

o   The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, a rallying cry for creative agencies to stop giving away their thinking for free.

o   Pricing Creativity, a guide to pricing your work based on value, not hours.

o   And now, his latest book - The Four Conversations a model for selling expertise

If you’ve ever felt stuck in the sales process, unsure how to talk about money, or like you’re chasing clients instead of leading them - this episode is for you.

You can connect with Blair Enns here: 
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairenns/
Website: http://www.winwithoutpitching.com/
Books: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Books-Blair-Enns/s?rh=n%3A266239%2Cp_27%3ABlair%2BEnns</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>sales training, account management, Blair Enns, pitching</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Why Account Management Deserves More Respect, with David C. Baker</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/1n20q61n-why-account-management-deserves-more-respect-with-david-c-baker</link>
      <itunes:title>Why Account Management Deserves More Respect, with David C. Baker</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>138</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">219q56p1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 138. If you’re managing client relationships - or leading others who do - this episode is packed with practical advice. 

I’m joined by David C. Baker, widely regarded as "the expert's expert" in the marketing agency world. David has advised over 1,000 entrepreneurial experts through his consulting firm, Punctuation, which he founded back in 1994. He's the author of 7 books, including the influential "The Business of Expertise" and "Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors," and his latest book “Selling your professional services firm”. His insights have been featured in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal and numerous other publications. As the co-host of the popular "2Bobs" podcast, David regularly shares his expertise on agency management. With decades of experience working with marketing services firms, David brings unparalleled insights into the nuanced relationship between account management and project management - which makes him the perfect guest as we prepare for the third annual Account and Project Management event in Atlanta in September 2025.

Here’s just a handful of the things we covered:
• Why growing the account is the primary role of an account manager - and why order-taking isn’t enough (particularly now)
• The healthy tension that needs to exist between AMs and PMs - and what happens when one person does both
• Why strong account managers read the room - not just run the meeting
• How to lead clients without being pushy - and why honesty is your best sales strategy
• Practical tips for handovers, managing workload, and setting account managers up for success
• And why account managers can - and should - lead the AI conversation within the agency

David also shares thoughts on leadership, compensation, and the future of AM in an AI-driven world. 
If this conversation sparked ideas for how you can grow your client relationships, lead more confidently, and future-proof your role - then imagine what could happen if you gave yourself two days completely focused on it.
Join us in Atlanta this 23rd and 24th of September for the AM/PM Conference - the only event created specifically for agency account and project managers.

This isn’t just another conference. It’s where you’ll:
• Surround yourself with people who get it - fellow AMs and PMs facing the same pressures and expectations you are
• Learn practical strategies to retain and grow client accounts, manage tricky situations, and improve delivery - without burning out
• Discover exactly how other agencies are using AI to work smarter, automate the boring stuff, and deliver faster, better outcomes
• Leave with fresh tools, frameworks, and real-world examples you can put into practice the very next day

I’ll be there, David C. Baker will be there, and we’re also joined by Brett Harned - founder of the Digital PM Summit and author of Project Management for Humans.

If you’re serious about growing your career and elevating your role - this is where it happens.
Visit https://www.punctuation.com for all the details and to grab your spot.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 138. If you’re managing client relationships - or leading others who do - this episode is packed with practical advice.&nbsp;<br><br>I’m joined by David C. Baker, widely regarded as "the expert's expert" in the marketing agency world. David has advised over 1,000 entrepreneurial experts through his consulting firm, Punctuation, which he founded back in 1994. He's the author of 7 books, including the influential "The Business of Expertise" and "Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors," and his latest book “Selling your professional services firm”. His insights have been featured in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal and numerous other publications. As the co-host of the popular "2Bobs" podcast, David regularly shares his expertise on agency management. With decades of experience working with marketing services firms, David brings unparalleled insights into the nuanced relationship between account management and project management - which makes him the perfect guest as we prepare for the third annual Account and Project Management event in Atlanta in September 2025.<br><br>Here’s just a handful of the things we covered:<br>•	Why growing the account is the primary role of an account manager - and why order-taking isn’t enough (particularly now)<br>•	The healthy tension that needs to exist between AMs and PMs - and what happens when one person does both<br>•	Why strong account managers read the room - not just run the meeting<br>•	How to lead clients without being pushy - and why honesty is your best sales strategy<br>•	Practical tips for handovers, managing workload, and setting account managers up for success<br>•	And why account managers can - and should - lead the AI conversation within the agency<br><br>David also shares thoughts on leadership, compensation, and the future of AM in an AI-driven world.&nbsp;<br>If this conversation sparked ideas for how you can grow your client relationships, lead more confidently, and future-proof your role - then imagine what could happen if you gave yourself two days completely focused on it.<br>Join us in Atlanta this 23rd and 24th of September for the AM/PM Conference - the only event created specifically for agency account and project managers.<br><br>This isn’t just another conference. It’s where you’ll:<br>•	Surround yourself with people who get it - fellow AMs and PMs facing the same pressures and expectations you are<br>•	Learn practical strategies to retain and grow client accounts, manage tricky situations, and improve delivery - without burning out<br>•	Discover exactly how other agencies are using AI to work smarter, automate the boring stuff, and deliver faster, better outcomes<br>•	Leave with fresh tools, frameworks, and real-world examples you can put into practice the very next day<br><br>I’ll be there, David C. Baker will be there, and we’re also joined by Brett Harned - founder of the Digital PM Summit and author of Project Management for Humans.<br><br>If you’re serious about growing your career and elevating your role - this is where it happens.<br>Visit https://www.punctuation.com for all the details and to grab your spot.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2025 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/84v4p0k8.mp3" length="65019736" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/0e60e920-3628-11f0-abf2-d3043e08af38/0e60ebc0-3628-11f0-be18-edaf5a98164d.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3250</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 138. If you’re managing client relationships - or leading others who do - this episode is packed with practical advice. 

I’m joined by David C. Baker, widely regarded as "the expert's expert" in the marketing agency world. David has advised over 1,000 entrepreneurial experts through his consulting firm, Punctuation, which he founded back in 1994. He's the author of 7 books, including the influential "The Business of Expertise" and "Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors," and his latest book “Selling your professional services firm”. His insights have been featured in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal and numerous other publications. As the co-host of the popular "2Bobs" podcast, David regularly shares his expertise on agency management. With decades of experience working with marketing services firms, David brings unparalleled insights into the nuanced relationship between account management and project management - which makes him the perfect guest as we prepare for the third annual Account and Project Management event in Atlanta in September 2025.

Here’s just a handful of the things we covered:
• Why growing the account is the primary role of an account manager - and why order-taking isn’t enough (particularly now)
• The healthy tension that needs to exist between AMs and PMs - and what happens when one person does both
• Why strong account managers read the room - not just run the meeting
• How to lead clients without being pushy - and why honesty is your best sales strategy
• Practical tips for handovers, managing workload, and setting account managers up for success
• And why account managers can - and should - lead the AI conversation within the agency

David also shares thoughts on leadership, compensation, and the future of AM in an AI-driven world. 
If this conversation sparked ideas for how you can grow your client relationships, lead more confidently, and future-proof your role - then imagine what could happen if you gave yourself two days completely focused on it.
Join us in Atlanta this 23rd and 24th of September for the AM/PM Conference - the only event created specifically for agency account and project managers.

This isn’t just another conference. It’s where you’ll:
• Surround yourself with people who get it - fellow AMs and PMs facing the same pressures and expectations you are
• Learn practical strategies to retain and grow client accounts, manage tricky situations, and improve delivery - without burning out
• Discover exactly how other agencies are using AI to work smarter, automate the boring stuff, and deliver faster, better outcomes
• Leave with fresh tools, frameworks, and real-world examples you can put into practice the very next day

I’ll be there, David C. Baker will be there, and we’re also joined by Brett Harned - founder of the Digital PM Summit and author of Project Management for Humans.

If you’re serious about growing your career and elevating your role - this is where it happens.
Visit https://www.punctuation.com for all the details and to grab your spot.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 138. If you’re managing client relationships - or leading others who do - this episode is packed with practical advice. 

I’m joined by David C. Baker, widely regarded as "the expert's expert" in the marketing agency world. David has advised over 1,000 entrepreneurial experts through his consulting firm, Punctuation, which he founded back in 1994. He's the author of 7 books, including the influential "The Business of Expertise" and "Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors," and his latest book “Selling your professional services firm”. His insights have been featured in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal and numerous other publications. As the co-host of the popular "2Bobs" podcast, David regularly shares his expertise on agency management. With decades of experience working with marketing services firms, David brings unparalleled insights into the nuanced relationship between account management and project management - which makes him the perfect guest as we prepare for the third annual Account and Project Management event in Atlanta in September 2025.

Here’s just a handful of the things we covered:
• Why growing the account is the primary role of an account manager - and why order-taking isn’t enough (particularly now)
• The healthy tension that needs to exist between AMs and PMs - and what happens when one person does both
• Why strong account managers read the room - not just run the meeting
• How to lead clients without being pushy - and why honesty is your best sales strategy
• Practical tips for handovers, managing workload, and setting account managers up for success
• And why account managers can - and should - lead the AI conversation within the agency

David also shares thoughts on leadership, compensation, and the future of AM in an AI-driven world. 
If this conversation sparked ideas for how you can grow your client relationships, lead more confidently, and future-proof your role - then imagine what could happen if you gave yourself two days completely focused on it.
Join us in Atlanta this 23rd and 24th of September for the AM/PM Conference - the only event created specifically for agency account and project managers.

This isn’t just another conference. It’s where you’ll:
• Surround yourself with people who get it - fellow AMs and PMs facing the same pressures and expectations you are
• Learn practical strategies to retain and grow client accounts, manage tricky situations, and improve delivery - without burning out
• Discover exactly how other agencies are using AI to work smarter, automate the boring stuff, and deliver faster, better outcomes
• Leave with fresh tools, frameworks, and real-world examples you can put into practice the very next day

I’ll be there, David C. Baker will be there, and we’re also joined by Brett Harned - founder of the Digital PM Summit and author of Project Management for Humans.

If you’re serious about growing your career and elevating your role - this is where it happens.
Visit https://www.punctuation.com for all the details and to grab your spot.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>david c baker, agency selling, client relationships, account manager, creative agency</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How adding account management impacted an event production agency, with Cameron Magee</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/rnkm9pkn-how-adding-account-management-impacted-an-event-production-agency-with-cameron-magee</link>
      <itunes:title>How adding account management impacted an event production agency, with Cameron Magee</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>137</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">70w7xlz0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 137. If you’ve ever wondered when’s the right time to introduce an account manager role into your agency - or how that change might impact the way you serve clients - this episode is for you.

I’m joined by Cameron Magee, founder of event production agency avad3, trusted by clients such as Walmart and the White House.

He shares with me:

Why he waited until 30+ employees to hire a dedicated account manager
What changed when Cameron stepped back from day-to-day client contact
The growing pains of introducing account management into a production-led culture
Advice Cameron would give to other agency owners ready to make the leap

We also touch on where the live event industry is going - and why hybrid events might start to feel a bit more like first-class travel experiences.

If you'd like to connect with Cameron, you’ll find him most active on LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/c-magee  or go to the avad3 website: http://avad3.com/

If you want regular tips and updates about how AI is impacting the agency account management role then head over to my website and sign up for my newsletter. That’s where I share tools, training and guest insights to help you strengthen and expand your client relationships. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 137. If you’ve ever wondered when’s the right time to introduce an account manager role into your agency - or how that change might impact the way you serve clients - this episode is for you.<br><br>I’m joined by Cameron Magee, founder of event production agency avad3, trusted by clients such as Walmart and the White House.<br><br>He shares with me:<br><br>Why he waited until 30+ employees to hire a dedicated account manager<br>What changed when Cameron stepped back from day-to-day client contact<br>The growing pains of introducing account management into a production-led culture<br>Advice Cameron would give to other agency owners ready to make the leap<br><br>We also touch on where the live event industry is going - and why hybrid events might start to feel a bit more like first-class travel experiences.<br><br>If you'd like to connect with Cameron, you’ll find him most active on LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/c-magee&nbsp; or go to the avad3 website: http://avad3.com/<br><br>If you want regular tips and updates about how AI is impacting the agency account management role then head over to my website and sign up for my newsletter. That’s where I share tools, training and guest insights to help you strengthen and expand your client relationships. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2025 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/wyq94ypw.mp3" length="68205630" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/f1548cb0-2b33-11f0-a624-b5873ab66302/f1548e40-2b33-11f0-937f-f56f319c8153.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3410</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 137. If you’ve ever wondered when’s the right time to introduce an account manager role into your agency - or how that change might impact the way you serve clients - this episode is for you.

I’m joined by Cameron Magee, founder of event production agency avad3, trusted by clients such as Walmart and the White House.

He shares with me:

Why he waited until 30+ employees to hire a dedicated account manager
What changed when Cameron stepped back from day-to-day client contact
The growing pains of introducing account management into a production-led culture
Advice Cameron would give to other agency owners ready to make the leap

We also touch on where the live event industry is going - and why hybrid events might start to feel a bit more like first-class travel experiences.

If you'd like to connect with Cameron, you’ll find him most active on LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/c-magee  or go to the avad3 website: http://avad3.com/

If you want regular tips and updates about how AI is impacting the agency account management role then head over to my website and sign up for my newsletter. That’s where I share tools, training and guest insights to help you strengthen and expand your client relationships. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 137. If you’ve ever wondered when’s the right time to introduce an account manager role into your agency - or how that change might impact the way you serve clients - this episode is for you.

I’m joined by Cameron Magee, founder of event production agency avad3, trusted by clients such as Walmart and the White House.

He shares with me:

Why he waited until 30+ employees to hire a dedicated account manager
What changed when Cameron stepped back from day-to-day client contact
The growing pains of introducing account management into a production-led culture
Advice Cameron would give to other agency owners ready to make the leap

We also touch on where the live event industry is going - and why hybrid events might start to feel a bit more like first-class travel experiences.

If you'd like to connect with Cameron, you’ll find him most active on LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/c-magee  or go to the avad3 website: http://avad3.com/

If you want regular tips and updates about how AI is impacting the agency account management role then head over to my website and sign up for my newsletter. That’s where I share tools, training and guest insights to help you strengthen and expand your client relationships. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>account manager, event production, agency owner,</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>From employee to advocate: Why account managers should build a personal brand, with Claudia Cardinali</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/v8w45w1n-from-employee-to-advocate-why-account-managers-should-build-a-personal-brand-with-claudia-cardinali</link>
      <itunes:title>From employee to advocate: Why account managers should build a personal brand, with Claudia Cardinali</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>136</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">80x7xkm1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 136. 

We’re talking about a topic that’s becoming a real game-changer for creative agencies - the power of personal branding and employee-generated content.

If you're an account manager, this one's especially for you. Clients are increasingly choosing to work with people, not just businesses. So the way you show up online can directly impact trust, relationships and even new business opportunities.

I chat to Claudia Cardinali, the Strategy Director for Personal Branding Agency, Great Influence where she works closely with CEOs &amp; founders and senior leadership teams on their public image. Claudia has worked to build the personal brands of Political Party Leaders, Sunday Times bestselling authors, Premier League football players, Journalists &amp; Unicorn Entrepreneurs. She was awarded a LinkedIn Top Voice last year, has gained an audience of over 65k followers and has built her career by sharing her thoughts on the platform, particularly around 'Becoming A Manager' and 'Employee Generated Content'. 

In this conversation, we covered:

How employee visibility strengthens client relationships and eases handovers
Why personal branding isn’t just for founders
Practical tips for sharing content online, even if you’re not sure where to start
How agencies can create a culture that encourages their teams to show up
And how AI can help make the whole process quicker and easier

If you're looking to build your presence online and become an even greater asset to your clients and your agency, you’ll get so much value from this.
Claudia’s message is clear - personal branding builds trust, strengthens client relationships, and helps you stand out as a true advocate for your agency.
https://greatinfluence.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ccardinali9/

And if you want to sharpen your client development skills even further, check out my Account Kickstarter programme - a self-paced, eight-session online course designed to help you grow and retain your agency accounts with confidence.

Plus, we’ve just added a brand-new bonus:
AI for Account Managers - packed with practical tools to help you save time, personalise client communications and uncover new growth opportunities.
All available now inside your Account Kickstarter dashboard. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-kickstarter</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 136.&nbsp;<br><br>We’re talking about a topic that’s becoming a real game-changer for creative agencies - the power of personal branding and employee-generated content.<br><br>If you're an account manager, this one's especially for you. Clients are increasingly choosing to work with people, not just businesses. So the way you show up online can directly impact trust, relationships and even new business opportunities.<br><br>I chat to Claudia Cardinali, the Strategy Director for Personal Branding Agency, Great Influence where she works closely with CEOs &amp; founders and senior leadership teams on their public image. Claudia has worked to build the personal brands of Political Party Leaders, Sunday Times bestselling authors, Premier League football players, Journalists &amp; Unicorn Entrepreneurs. She was awarded a LinkedIn Top Voice last year, has gained an audience of over 65k followers and has built her career by sharing her thoughts on the platform, particularly around 'Becoming A Manager' and 'Employee Generated Content'.&nbsp;<br><br>In this conversation, we covered:<br><br>How employee visibility strengthens client relationships and eases handovers<br>Why personal branding isn’t just for founders<br>Practical tips for sharing content online, even if you’re not sure where to start<br>How agencies can create a culture that encourages their teams to show up<br>And how AI can help make the whole process quicker and easier<br><br>If you're looking to build your presence online and become an even greater asset to your clients and your agency, you’ll get so much value from this.<br>Claudia’s message is clear - personal branding builds trust, strengthens client relationships, and helps you stand out as a true advocate for your agency.<br>https://greatinfluence.com/<br>https://www.linkedin.com/in/ccardinali9/<br><br>And if you want to sharpen your client development skills even further, check out my Account Kickstarter programme - a self-paced, eight-session online course designed to help you grow and retain your agency accounts with confidence.<br><br>Plus, we’ve just added a brand-new bonus:<br>AI for Account Managers - packed with practical tools to help you save time, personalise client communications and uncover new growth opportunities.<br><br>All available now inside your Account Kickstarter dashboard. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-kickstarter</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2025 12:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8z71rzmw.mp3" length="58601450" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/ac2868b0-21ce-11f0-a8d0-2d730a7dd826/ac286a60-21ce-11f0-8fca-9d6b61ff5791.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2929</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 136. 

We’re talking about a topic that’s becoming a real game-changer for creative agencies - the power of personal branding and employee-generated content.

If you're an account manager, this one's especially for you. Clients are increasingly choosing to work with people, not just businesses. So the way you show up online can directly impact trust, relationships and even new business opportunities.

I chat to Claudia Cardinali, the Strategy Director for Personal Branding Agency, Great Influence where she works closely with CEOs &amp; founders and senior leadership teams on their public image. Claudia has worked to build the personal brands of Political Party Leaders, Sunday Times bestselling authors, Premier League football players, Journalists &amp; Unicorn Entrepreneurs. She was awarded a LinkedIn Top Voice last year, has gained an audience of over 65k followers and has built her career by sharing her thoughts on the platform, particularly around 'Becoming A Manager' and 'Employee Generated Content'. 

In this conversation, we covered:

How employee visibility strengthens client relationships and eases handovers
Why personal branding isn’t just for founders
Practical tips for sharing content online, even if you’re not sure where to start
How agencies can create a culture that encourages their teams to show up
And how AI can help make the whole process quicker and easier

If you're looking to build your presence online and become an even greater asset to your clients and your agency, you’ll get so much value from this.
Claudia’s message is clear - personal branding builds trust, strengthens client relationships, and helps you stand out as a true advocate for your agency.
https://greatinfluence.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ccardinali9/

And if you want to sharpen your client development skills even further, check out my Account Kickstarter programme - a self-paced, eight-session online course designed to help you grow and retain your agency accounts with confidence.

Plus, we’ve just added a brand-new bonus:
AI for Account Managers - packed with practical tools to help you save time, personalise client communications and uncover new growth opportunities.
All available now inside your Account Kickstarter dashboard. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-kickstarter</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 136. 

We’re talking about a topic that’s becoming a real game-changer for creative agencies - the power of personal branding and employee-generated content.

If you're an account manager, this one's especially for you. Clients are increasingly choosing to work with people, not just businesses. So the way you show up online can directly impact trust, relationships and even new business opportunities.

I chat to Claudia Cardinali, the Strategy Director for Personal Branding Agency, Great Influence where she works closely with CEOs &amp; founders and senior leadership teams on their public image. Claudia has worked to build the personal brands of Political Party Leaders, Sunday Times bestselling authors, Premier League football players, Journalists &amp; Unicorn Entrepreneurs. She was awarded a LinkedIn Top Voice last year, has gained an audience of over 65k followers and has built her career by sharing her thoughts on the platform, particularly around 'Becoming A Manager' and 'Employee Generated Content'. 

In this conversation, we covered:

How employee visibility strengthens client relationships and eases handovers
Why personal branding isn’t just for founders
Practical tips for sharing content online, even if you’re not sure where to start
How agencies can create a culture that encourages their teams to show up
And how AI can help make the whole process quicker and easier

If you're looking to build your presence online and become an even greater asset to your clients and your agency, you’ll get so much value from this.
Claudia’s message is clear - personal branding builds trust, strengthens client relationships, and helps you stand out as a true advocate for your agency.
https://greatinfluence.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ccardinali9/

And if you want to sharpen your client development skills even further, check out my Account Kickstarter programme - a self-paced, eight-session online course designed to help you grow and retain your agency accounts with confidence.

Plus, we’ve just added a brand-new bonus:
AI for Account Managers - packed with practical tools to help you save time, personalise client communications and uncover new growth opportunities.
All available now inside your Account Kickstarter dashboard. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-kickstarter</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Smaller, Faster, More Human: The Future of Agencies, with Carl Smith</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/18pvlj28-smaller-faster-more-human-the-future-of-agencies-with-carl-smith</link>
      <itunes:title>Smaller, Faster, More Human: The Future of Agencies, with Carl Smith</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>135</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">z1r3zn70</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 135. There’s a quiet shift happening in the agency world - and today’s episode gets right into it.

More and more agencies are choosing to stay lean, move faster, and build businesses that are not just profitable - but more human. And that shift is changing everything, from how we use AI, to how we lead, to what it means to be an account manager.

Carl Smith leads The Bureau, a community that connects and supports agency leaders. A former theater major, he ran his agency nGen Works for 12 years, experimenting with unconventional management. After attending a Bureau event in 2012, he saw the power of community and took over in 2016. Now, Carl helps leaders navigate the challenges of running an agency, ensuring no one feels alone. Through Slack, events, and collaborative programs, The Bureau fosters real connections and growth. When he’s not building community, he’s running, recording, or speaking about leading humans.

In this episode, Carl shares with me:

- Why staying small is becoming a competitive advantage

- How agency leaders are managing burnout, uncertainty and shifting business models

- How AI is accelerating workflow and value-based pricing

- Why Gen Z is redefining what an agency is and why they’re not calling it an agency at all

- And what the future of account management looks like in this changing landscape

If you’re looking for community and connection in these changing times, do follow Carl Smith on LinkedIn and check out what the Bureau has to offer. Carl and the team are doing brilliant work to support agency leaders  who not only want to stay ahead of the changes but feel less alone at the same time.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/carl-w-smith/
https://bureauofdigital.com/event/leadership-love-portland-oregon

If you’re leading client relationships and want to keep developing as the landscape shifts, don’t forget to sign up for my newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

I share practical client management tips, AI tools for the account management role, news about upcoming podcast episodes and you’ll be the first to hear about trainings to help you stay confident as an account manager or agency leader.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 135. There’s a quiet shift happening in the agency world - and today’s episode gets right into it.<br><br>More and more agencies are choosing to stay lean, move faster, and build businesses that are not just profitable - but more human. And that shift is changing everything, from how we use AI, to how we lead, to what it means to be an account manager.<br><br>Carl Smith leads The Bureau, a community that connects and supports agency leaders. A former theater major, he ran his agency nGen Works for 12 years, experimenting with unconventional management. After attending a Bureau event in 2012, he saw the power of community and took over in 2016. Now, Carl helps leaders navigate the challenges of running an agency, ensuring no one feels alone. Through Slack, events, and collaborative programs, The Bureau fosters real connections and growth. When he’s not building community, he’s running, recording, or speaking about leading humans.<br><br>In this episode, Carl shares with me:<br><br>- Why staying small is becoming a competitive advantage<br><br>- How agency leaders are managing burnout, uncertainty and shifting business models<br><br>- How AI is accelerating workflow and value-based pricing<br><br>- Why Gen Z is redefining what an agency is and why they’re not calling it an agency at all<br><br>- And what the future of account management looks like in this changing landscape<br><br>If you’re looking for community and connection in these changing times, do follow Carl Smith on LinkedIn and check out what the Bureau has to offer. Carl and the team are doing brilliant work to support agency leaders&nbsp; who not only want to stay ahead of the changes but feel less alone at the same time.<br><br>https://www.linkedin.com/in/carl-w-smith/<br>https://bureauofdigital.com/event/leadership-love-portland-oregon<br><br>If you’re leading client relationships and want to keep developing as the landscape shifts, don’t forget to sign up for my newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com<br><br>I share practical client management tips, AI tools for the account management role, news about upcoming podcast episodes and you’ll be the first to hear about trainings to help you stay confident as an account manager or agency leader.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2025 11:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8z71rq0w.mp3" length="56136536" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/95c86720-1930-11f0-b6c7-9715d8b999b5/95c86ce0-1930-11f0-b869-01ed972ef06e.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2806</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 135. There’s a quiet shift happening in the agency world - and today’s episode gets right into it.

More and more agencies are choosing to stay lean, move faster, and build businesses that are not just profitable - but more human. And that shift is changing everything, from how we use AI, to how we lead, to what it means to be an account manager.

Carl Smith leads The Bureau, a community that connects and supports agency leaders. A former theater major, he ran his agency nGen Works for 12 years, experimenting with unconventional management. After attending a Bureau event in 2012, he saw the power of community and took over in 2016. Now, Carl helps leaders navigate the challenges of running an agency, ensuring no one feels alone. Through Slack, events, and collaborative programs, The Bureau fosters real connections and growth. When he’s not building community, he’s running, recording, or speaking about leading humans.

In this episode, Carl shares with me:

- Why staying small is becoming a competitive advantage

- How agency leaders are managing burnout, uncertainty and shifting business models

- How AI is accelerating workflow and value-based pricing

- Why Gen Z is redefining what an agency is and why they’re not calling it an agency at all

- And what the future of account management looks like in this changing landscape

If you’re looking for community and connection in these changing times, do follow Carl Smith on LinkedIn and check out what the Bureau has to offer. Carl and the team are doing brilliant work to support agency leaders  who not only want to stay ahead of the changes but feel less alone at the same time.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/carl-w-smith/
https://bureauofdigital.com/event/leadership-love-portland-oregon

If you’re leading client relationships and want to keep developing as the landscape shifts, don’t forget to sign up for my newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

I share practical client management tips, AI tools for the account management role, news about upcoming podcast episodes and you’ll be the first to hear about trainings to help you stay confident as an account manager or agency leader.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 135. There’s a quiet shift happening in the agency world - and today’s episode gets right into it.

More and more agencies are choosing to stay lean, move faster, and build businesses that are not just profitable - but more human. And that shift is changing everything, from how we use AI, to how we lead, to what it means to be an account manager.

Carl Smith leads The Bureau, a community that connects and supports agency leaders. A former theater major, he ran his agency nGen Works for 12 years, experimenting with unconventional management. After attending a Bureau event in 2012, he saw the power of community and took over in 2016. Now, Carl helps leaders navigate the challenges of running an agency, ensuring no one feels alone. Through Slack, events, and collaborative programs, The Bureau fosters real connections and growth. When he’s not building community, he’s running, recording, or speaking about leading humans.

In this episode, Carl shares with me:

- Why staying small is becoming a competitive advantage

- How agency leaders are managing burnout, uncertainty and shifting business models

- How AI is accelerating workflow and value-based pricing

- Why Gen Z is redefining what an agency is and why they’re not calling it an agency at all

- And what the future of account management looks like in this changing landscape

If you’re looking for community and connection in these changing times, do follow Carl Smith on LinkedIn and check out what the Bureau has to offer. Carl and the team are doing brilliant work to support agency leaders  who not only want to stay ahead of the changes but feel less alone at the same time.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/carl-w-smith/
https://bureauofdigital.com/event/leadership-love-portland-oregon

If you’re leading client relationships and want to keep developing as the landscape shifts, don’t forget to sign up for my newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

I share practical client management tips, AI tools for the account management role, news about upcoming podcast episodes and you’ll be the first to hear about trainings to help you stay confident as an account manager or agency leader.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>AI, future of agencies, account manager, account management, creative agencies, AI for agencies</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Impact of AI on SEO agencies, with Kevin Gibbons</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/pnm524zn-the-impact-of-ai-on-seo-agencies-with-kevin-gibbons</link>
      <itunes:title>The Impact of AI on SEO agencies, with Kevin Gibbons</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>134</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">71vlxm81</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 134. I spoke to Kevin Gibbons, founding director of Re:signal, a specialist ecommerce SEO agency, driving organic search growth for clients including Under Armour, FatFace and ASICS. Kevin frequently writes/speaks within the search industry.

Kevin covers:
- how AI is shaking up SEO and what that means for agencies and their clients.
- how AI is changing search and where it might go next.
- the key conversations agencies should be having with clients right now.
- how to think about visibility in AI search results and LLMs
- how agencies can use AI to work more efficiently and lots, lots more. 

I took away so much from this discussion, particularly around how agencies should be preparing for the shift towards AI driven search. If you'd like to connect with Kevin, you can find him posting regularly on LinkedIn and I'd highly recommend you give him a follow.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevingibbons/
https://resignal.com

If you're looking for more tips, strategies, and practical guidance on how AI is influencing client relationship management, account development, and account growth, then make sure you sign up for my newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com. I share regular updates, insights from expert guests, and tips about account management, and also training opportunities to help you stay one step ahead.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 134. I spoke to Kevin Gibbons, founding director of Re:signal, a specialist ecommerce SEO agency, driving organic search growth for clients including Under Armour, FatFace and ASICS. Kevin frequently writes/speaks within the search industry.<br><br>Kevin covers:<br>- how AI is shaking up SEO and what that means for agencies and their clients.<br>- how AI is changing search and where it might go next.<br>- the key conversations agencies should be having with clients right now.<br>- how to think about visibility in AI search results and LLMs<br>- how agencies can use AI to work more efficiently and lots, lots more.&nbsp;<br><br>I took away so much from this discussion, particularly around how agencies should be preparing for the shift towards AI driven search. If you'd like to connect with Kevin, you can find him posting regularly on LinkedIn and I'd highly recommend you give him a follow.<br>https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevingibbons/<br>https://resignal.com<br><br>If you're looking for more tips, strategies, and practical guidance on how AI is influencing client relationship management, account development, and account growth, then make sure you sign up for my newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com. I share regular updates, insights from expert guests, and tips about account management, and also training opportunities to help you stay one step ahead.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2025 12:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/wpy7vxz8.mp3" length="53910904" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/4984c300-0b04-11f0-86ad-77c74c3bde88/4984c480-0b04-11f0-b15c-65f26f454eb9.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2695</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 134. I spoke to Kevin Gibbons, founding director of Re:signal, a specialist ecommerce SEO agency, driving organic search growth for clients including Under Armour, FatFace and ASICS. Kevin frequently writes/speaks within the search industry.

Kevin covers:
- how AI is shaking up SEO and what that means for agencies and their clients.
- how AI is changing search and where it might go next.
- the key conversations agencies should be having with clients right now.
- how to think about visibility in AI search results and LLMs
- how agencies can use AI to work more efficiently and lots, lots more. 

I took away so much from this discussion, particularly around how agencies should be preparing for the shift towards AI driven search. If you'd like to connect with Kevin, you can find him posting regularly on LinkedIn and I'd highly recommend you give him a follow.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevingibbons/
https://resignal.com

If you're looking for more tips, strategies, and practical guidance on how AI is influencing client relationship management, account development, and account growth, then make sure you sign up for my newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com. I share regular updates, insights from expert guests, and tips about account management, and also training opportunities to help you stay one step ahead.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 134. I spoke to Kevin Gibbons, founding director of Re:signal, a specialist ecommerce SEO agency, driving organic search growth for clients including Under Armour, FatFace and ASICS. Kevin frequently writes/speaks within the search industry.

Kevin covers:
- how AI is shaking up SEO and what that means for agencies and their clients.
- how AI is changing search and where it might go next.
- the key conversations agencies should be having with clients right now.
- how to think about visibility in AI search results and LLMs
- how agencies can use AI to work more efficiently and lots, lots more. 

I took away so much from this discussion, particularly around how agencies should be preparing for the shift towards AI driven search. If you'd like to connect with Kevin, you can find him posting regularly on LinkedIn and I'd highly recommend you give him a follow.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevingibbons/
https://resignal.com

If you're looking for more tips, strategies, and practical guidance on how AI is influencing client relationship management, account development, and account growth, then make sure you sign up for my newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com. I share regular updates, insights from expert guests, and tips about account management, and also training opportunities to help you stay one step ahead.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>AI, SEO, artificial intelligence, search results, ecommerce</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The AI business consultancy, with Tom Head</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/p8lxl6l8-the-ai-business-consultancy-with-tom-head</link>
      <itunes:title>The AI business consultancy, with Tom Head</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>133</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">x1ln6p61</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 133. I'm chatting with Founder of G3NR8, Tom Head, about how AI is impacting business. G3NR8 is a consultancy for a new age, innovating business with AI. Tom has spent two decades in digital and built multiple 7 figure agencies. He’s worked with brands such as Red Bull Racing, JP Morgan, Tesco, and The Guardian and is now helping companies succeed with AI by providing training, consultancy, research, and building out the right AI strategy to keep them ahead of the competition.

We talk about:

•	where we are in terms of AI’s evolution and advancement for both our clients and us as agencies. 
•	why it's important to understand the client's needs and meet them where they are. 
•	how AI is helping agencies quickly analyse data and uncover insights to help drive the creative output. 
•	some best practices for agencies when using AI tools
•	how clients are starting to question the origin of content and where it's being generated from, and questioning the value and the role of an agency. 

You can follow Tom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-head-ai/
And sign up for the G3NR8 newsletter here: https://www.g3nr8.com/newsletter</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 133. I'm chatting with Founder of G3NR8, Tom Head, about how AI is impacting business. G3NR8 is a consultancy for a new age, innovating business with AI. Tom has spent two decades in digital and built multiple 7 figure agencies. He’s worked with brands such as Red Bull Racing, JP Morgan, Tesco, and The Guardian and is now helping companies succeed with AI by providing training, consultancy, research, and building out the right AI strategy to keep them ahead of the competition.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>We talk about:</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;where we are in terms of AI’s evolution and advancement for both our clients and us as agencies.&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;why it's important to understand the client's needs and meet them where they are.&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how AI is helping agencies quickly analyse data and uncover insights to help drive the creative output.&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;some best practices for agencies when using AI tools</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how clients are starting to question the origin of content and where it's being generated from, and questioning the value and the role of an agency.&nbsp;</div><div><br>&nbsp;You can follow Tom on LinkedIn: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-head-ai/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-head-ai/</a></div><div>And sign up for the G3NR8 newsletter here: <a href="https://www.g3nr8.com/newsletter">https://www.g3nr8.com/newsletter</a></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2025 08:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8mk7zp38.mp3" length="63447165" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/ec7ca100-f99d-11ef-a600-1b4c4b58c367/ec7ca260-f99d-11ef-bc77-71713542bcec.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>3172</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 133. I'm chatting with Founder of G3NR8, Tom Head, about how AI is impacting business. G3NR8 is a consultancy for a new age, innovating business with AI. Tom has spent two decades in digital and built multiple 7 figure agencies. He’s worked with brands such as Red Bull Racing, JP Morgan, Tesco, and The Guardian and is now helping companies succeed with AI by providing training, consultancy, research, and building out the right AI strategy to keep them ahead of the competition.

We talk about:

•	where we are in terms of AI’s evolution and advancement for both our clients and us as agencies. 
•	why it's important to understand the client's needs and meet them where they are. 
•	how AI is helping agencies quickly analyse data and uncover insights to help drive the creative output. 
•	some best practices for agencies when using AI tools
•	how clients are starting to question the origin of content and where it's being generated from, and questioning the value and the role of an agency. 

You can follow Tom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-head-ai/
And sign up for the G3NR8 newsletter here: https://www.g3nr8.com/newsletter</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 133. I'm chatting with Founder of G3NR8, Tom Head, about how AI is impacting business. G3NR8 is a consultancy for a new age, innovating business with AI. Tom has spent two decades in digital and built multiple 7 figure agencies. He’s worked with brands such as Red Bull Racing, JP Morgan, Tesco, and The Guardian and is now helping companies succeed with AI by providing training, consultancy, research, and building out the right AI strategy to keep them ahead of the competition.

We talk about:

•	where we are in terms of AI’s evolution and advancement for both our clients and us as agencies. 
•	why it's important to understand the client's needs and meet them where they are. 
•	how AI is helping agencies quickly analyse data and uncover insights to help drive the creative output. 
•	some best practices for agencies when using AI tools
•	how clients are starting to question the origin of content and where it's being generated from, and questioning the value and the role of an agency. 

You can follow Tom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-head-ai/
And sign up for the G3NR8 newsletter here: https://www.g3nr8.com/newsletter</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>AI for marketing agencies, AI consultancy, AI for business, AI for agencies, AI tools</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to run strategic marketing campaigns for your agency</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/qn0qvyw8-how-to-run-strategic-marketing-campaigns-for-your-agency</link>
      <itunes:title>How to run strategic marketing campaigns for your agency</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>132</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">p1kpn780</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 132. This one will be particularly interesting and useful for you if you are responsible for marketing your agency's services. 

Agencies are experts in the field of marketing and are always focused on our clients’ marketing success. But how often do we seek an external perspective on how we are marketing our own agency services? So if you're the owner of the agency, that might be you, or if you're working in a larger agency, you might be the head of marketing responsible for driving the leads and the sales for your agency. 

My guest, Janet Murray, is a business strategist and a copywriter and an ex-journalist. She works with businesses to create strategic copywriting campaigns that not only save the business time but also generate and convert leads and sales. 

Janet is also the founder of an education and training company and creates and sells digital education products for consultants, coaches, freelancers and small business owners. She is the host of the Courageous CEO podcast and her Courageous CEO Strategic Business Planner is used by thousands of business owners worldwide and includes tried and tested strategies and resources for business growth. 

You can reach out to Janet here:

Website: https://www.janetmurray.co.uk 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/janmurrayuk/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/janetmurrayofficial

Twitter: https://twitter.com/jan_murray 

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janet-murray74/


If you are responsible for managing, retaining and growing your existing client relationships, then head over to my website: https://www.account managementskills.com where you can sign up for my regular newsletter for account management strategies, AI tips, and news about upcoming guests on my podcast episodes.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 132. This one will be particularly interesting and useful for you if you are responsible for marketing your agency's services.&nbsp;<br><br>Agencies are experts in the field of marketing and are always focused on our clients’ marketing success. But how often do we seek an external perspective on how we are marketing our own agency services? So if you're the owner of the agency, that might be you, or if you're working in a larger agency, you might be the head of marketing responsible for driving the leads and the sales for your agency.&nbsp;<br><br>My guest, Janet Murray, is a business strategist and a copywriter and an ex-journalist. She works with businesses to create strategic copywriting campaigns that not only save the business time but also generate and convert leads and sales.&nbsp;<br><br>Janet is also the founder of an education and training company and creates and sells digital education products for consultants, coaches, freelancers and small business owners. She is the host of the Courageous CEO podcast and her Courageous CEO Strategic Business Planner is used by thousands of business owners worldwide and includes tried and tested strategies and resources for business growth.&nbsp;<br><br>You can reach out to Janet here:<br><br>Website: https://www.janetmurray.co.uk&nbsp;<br><br>Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/janmurrayuk/<br><br>Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/janetmurrayofficial<br><br>Twitter: https://twitter.com/jan_murray&nbsp;<br><br>Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janet-murray74/<br><br><br>If you are responsible for managing, retaining and growing your existing client relationships, then head over to my website: https://www.account managementskills.com where you can sign up for my regular newsletter for account management strategies, AI tips, and news about upcoming guests on my podcast episodes.&nbsp;<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 25 Feb 2025 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8mk7zmk8.mp3" length="201747974" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/185f2b90-f29b-11ef-b47f-c1ec7bf0bdf8/185f2dd0-f29b-11ef-b6d1-6d44600dfb30.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>5043</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 132. This one will be particularly interesting and useful for you if you are responsible for marketing your agency's services. 

Agencies are experts in the field of marketing and are always focused on our clients’ marketing success. But how often do we seek an external perspective on how we are marketing our own agency services? So if you're the owner of the agency, that might be you, or if you're working in a larger agency, you might be the head of marketing responsible for driving the leads and the sales for your agency. 

My guest, Janet Murray, is a business strategist and a copywriter and an ex-journalist. She works with businesses to create strategic copywriting campaigns that not only save the business time but also generate and convert leads and sales. 

Janet is also the founder of an education and training company and creates and sells digital education products for consultants, coaches, freelancers and small business owners. She is the host of the Courageous CEO podcast and her Courageous CEO Strategic Business Planner is used by thousands of business owners worldwide and includes tried and tested strategies and resources for business growth. 

You can reach out to Janet here:

Website: https://www.janetmurray.co.uk 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/janmurrayuk/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/janetmurrayofficial

Twitter: https://twitter.com/jan_murray 

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janet-murray74/


If you are responsible for managing, retaining and growing your existing client relationships, then head over to my website: https://www.account managementskills.com where you can sign up for my regular newsletter for account management strategies, AI tips, and news about upcoming guests on my podcast episodes.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 132. This one will be particularly interesting and useful for you if you are responsible for marketing your agency's services. 

Agencies are experts in the field of marketing and are always focused on our clients’ marketing success. But how often do we seek an external perspective on how we are marketing our own agency services? So if you're the owner of the agency, that might be you, or if you're working in a larger agency, you might be the head of marketing responsible for driving the leads and the sales for your agency. 

My guest, Janet Murray, is a business strategist and a copywriter and an ex-journalist. She works with businesses to create strategic copywriting campaigns that not only save the business time but also generate and convert leads and sales. 

Janet is also the founder of an education and training company and creates and sells digital education products for consultants, coaches, freelancers and small business owners. She is the host of the Courageous CEO podcast and her Courageous CEO Strategic Business Planner is used by thousands of business owners worldwide and includes tried and tested strategies and resources for business growth. 

You can reach out to Janet here:

Website: https://www.janetmurray.co.uk 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/janmurrayuk/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/janetmurrayofficial

Twitter: https://twitter.com/jan_murray 

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janet-murray74/


If you are responsible for managing, retaining and growing your existing client relationships, then head over to my website: https://www.account managementskills.com where you can sign up for my regular newsletter for account management strategies, AI tips, and news about upcoming guests on my podcast episodes.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>marketing for agencies, account growth, strategic marketing, copywriting, Janet Murray</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How GenAI is transforming pharma marketing &amp; healthcare communications</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/r8kmlmm8-how-genai-is-transforming-pharma-marketing-healthcare-communications</link>
      <itunes:title>How GenAI is transforming pharma marketing &amp; healthcare communications</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>131</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">71w7j771</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 131. If you are a healthcare communications agency owner, or an account manager working in healthcare communications, and you're looking to stay ahead in the ever-evolving world of pharmaceutical marketing, then this episode is for you.

I'm joined in the studio by Jonathan Gwillim and Kate Eversole from PharmaBrands. They are the organisers of the upcoming Age of AI Europe event, which, if you're listening or watching this at the beginning of 2025, is happening on March 4th in London.

This is Europe's leading conference in GenAI in healthcare marketing and it features expert speakers from companies like Google, AstraZeneca, Novartis, ITV, Novo, Nordisk, Boehringer, Ingelheim and many more. In this episode, Jonathan and Kate share of insights about how healthcare agencies and their clients are using GenAI right now.

They also share how creative directors feel about Gen AI's impact on the industry, and Kate also shares practical steps you can take as an account manager to confidently embrace AI in your role and some tips for having conversations with your clients.

You can connect with Kate and Jonathan via LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kateeversole/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jongwillim/

There were several resources and links mentioned in our recording:

The Age of AI event, March 4, London: https://www.pharmabrands.ca/age-of-ai-europe
PharmaBrands report on AI literacy: https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/65b7dd23f5d4facb3c95fdf7/678e3106eb089ba6a175a282_AI%20Literacy%20Report_2025%20(3).pdf

Free webinar on Gen AI 101 : https://www.pharmabrands.ca/webinar
Klick and Guardrail reference: https://www.klick.com/news/ai-compliance-breakthrough-wins-klick-prize-results-signal-industry-trends
Recommended newsletter from Klick on all things health marketing: https://www.klick.com/klickwire
Syneos Health reference: https://pmsociety.org.uk/results/pm-society-digital-awards-2024-results/pm-society-digital-awards-2024-digital-agency-of-the-year/

&amp; their trends report: https://www.syneoshealth.com/insights-hub/2025-health-trends
Pfizer and Publicis reference: https://digiday.com/marketing/with-charlie-pfizer-is-building-a-new-generative-ai-platform-for-pharma-marketing/
Sanofi reference: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexzhavoronkov/2023/06/21/sanofi-goes-all-in-on-ai/
Novo Nordisk reference: https://www.novonordisk.com/content/dam/nncorp/global/en/investors/irmaterial/cmd/2024/P10-Data-Science-and-AI.pdf
AI driven Video - Cires 21: https://www.cires21.com/
Text to speech leader - Eleven labs: https://elevenlabs.io/
Great content on marketing AI - Marketing AI institute: https://www.marketingaiinstitute.com/
Tool to reduce meetings - Loom: https://www.loom.com/</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 131. If you are a healthcare communications agency owner, or an account manager working in healthcare communications, and you're looking to stay ahead in the ever-evolving world of pharmaceutical marketing, then this episode is for you.<br><br>I'm joined in the studio by Jonathan Gwillim and Kate Eversole from PharmaBrands. They are the organisers of the upcoming Age of AI Europe event, which, if you're listening or watching this at the beginning of 2025, is happening on March 4th in London.<br><br>This is Europe's leading conference in GenAI in healthcare marketing and it features expert speakers from companies like Google, AstraZeneca, Novartis, ITV, Novo, Nordisk, Boehringer, Ingelheim and many more. In this episode, Jonathan and Kate share of insights about how healthcare agencies and their clients are using GenAI right now.<br><br>They also share how creative directors feel about Gen AI's impact on the industry, and Kate also shares practical steps you can take as an account manager to confidently embrace AI in your role and some tips for having conversations with your clients.<br><br>You can connect with Kate and Jonathan via LinkedIn:<br>https://www.linkedin.com/in/kateeversole/<br>https://www.linkedin.com/in/jongwillim/<br><br>There were several resources and links mentioned in our recording:<br><br>The Age of AI event, March 4, London: https://www.pharmabrands.ca/age-of-ai-europe<br>PharmaBrands report on AI literacy: https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/65b7dd23f5d4facb3c95fdf7/678e3106eb089ba6a175a282_AI%20Literacy%20Report_2025%20(3).pdf<br><br>Free webinar on Gen AI 101 : https://www.pharmabrands.ca/webinar<br>Klick and Guardrail reference: https://www.klick.com/news/ai-compliance-breakthrough-wins-klick-prize-results-signal-industry-trends<br>Recommended newsletter from Klick on all things health marketing: https://www.klick.com/klickwire<br>Syneos Health reference: https://pmsociety.org.uk/results/pm-society-digital-awards-2024-results/pm-society-digital-awards-2024-digital-agency-of-the-year/<br><br>&amp; their trends report: https://www.syneoshealth.com/insights-hub/2025-health-trends<br>Pfizer and Publicis reference: https://digiday.com/marketing/with-charlie-pfizer-is-building-a-new-generative-ai-platform-for-pharma-marketing/<br>Sanofi reference: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexzhavoronkov/2023/06/21/sanofi-goes-all-in-on-ai/<br>Novo Nordisk reference: https://www.novonordisk.com/content/dam/nncorp/global/en/investors/irmaterial/cmd/2024/P10-Data-Science-and-AI.pdf<br>AI driven Video - Cires 21: https://www.cires21.com/<br>Text to speech leader - Eleven labs: https://elevenlabs.io/<br>Great content on marketing AI - Marketing AI institute: https://www.marketingaiinstitute.com/<br>Tool to reduce meetings - Loom: https://www.loom.com/</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 11 Feb 2025 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8mk7zx08.mp3" length="75474524" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/44e04420-e495-11ef-951a-cf9bc8aa4bbc/44e04960-e495-11ef-bc7e-65d5fefbd42c.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>4365</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 131. If you are a healthcare communications agency owner, or an account manager working in healthcare communications, and you're looking to stay ahead in the ever-evolving world of pharmaceutical marketing, then this episode is for you.

I'm joined in the studio by Jonathan Gwillim and Kate Eversole from PharmaBrands. They are the organisers of the upcoming Age of AI Europe event, which, if you're listening or watching this at the beginning of 2025, is happening on March 4th in London.

This is Europe's leading conference in GenAI in healthcare marketing and it features expert speakers from companies like Google, AstraZeneca, Novartis, ITV, Novo, Nordisk, Boehringer, Ingelheim and many more. In this episode, Jonathan and Kate share of insights about how healthcare agencies and their clients are using GenAI right now.

They also share how creative directors feel about Gen AI's impact on the industry, and Kate also shares practical steps you can take as an account manager to confidently embrace AI in your role and some tips for having conversations with your clients.

You can connect with Kate and Jonathan via LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kateeversole/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jongwillim/

There were several resources and links mentioned in our recording:

The Age of AI event, March 4, London: https://www.pharmabrands.ca/age-of-ai-europe
PharmaBrands report on AI literacy: https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/65b7dd23f5d4facb3c95fdf7/678e3106eb089ba6a175a282_AI%20Literacy%20Report_2025%20(3).pdf

Free webinar on Gen AI 101 : https://www.pharmabrands.ca/webinar
Klick and Guardrail reference: https://www.klick.com/news/ai-compliance-breakthrough-wins-klick-prize-results-signal-industry-trends
Recommended newsletter from Klick on all things health marketing: https://www.klick.com/klickwire
Syneos Health reference: https://pmsociety.org.uk/results/pm-society-digital-awards-2024-results/pm-society-digital-awards-2024-digital-agency-of-the-year/

&amp; their trends report: https://www.syneoshealth.com/insights-hub/2025-health-trends
Pfizer and Publicis reference: https://digiday.com/marketing/with-charlie-pfizer-is-building-a-new-generative-ai-platform-for-pharma-marketing/
Sanofi reference: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexzhavoronkov/2023/06/21/sanofi-goes-all-in-on-ai/
Novo Nordisk reference: https://www.novonordisk.com/content/dam/nncorp/global/en/investors/irmaterial/cmd/2024/P10-Data-Science-and-AI.pdf
AI driven Video - Cires 21: https://www.cires21.com/
Text to speech leader - Eleven labs: https://elevenlabs.io/
Great content on marketing AI - Marketing AI institute: https://www.marketingaiinstitute.com/
Tool to reduce meetings - Loom: https://www.loom.com/</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 131. If you are a healthcare communications agency owner, or an account manager working in healthcare communications, and you're looking to stay ahead in the ever-evolving world of pharmaceutical marketing, then this episode is for you.

I'm joined in the studio by Jonathan Gwillim and Kate Eversole from PharmaBrands. They are the organisers of the upcoming Age of AI Europe event, which, if you're listening or watching this at the beginning of 2025, is happening on March 4th in London.

This is Europe's leading conference in GenAI in healthcare marketing and it features expert speakers from companies like Google, AstraZeneca, Novartis, ITV, Novo, Nordisk, Boehringer, Ingelheim and many more. In this episode, Jonathan and Kate share of insights about how healthcare agencies and their clients are using GenAI right now.

They also share how creative directors feel about Gen AI's impact on the industry, and Kate also shares practical steps you can take as an account manager to confidently embrace AI in your role and some tips for having conversations with your clients.

You can connect with Kate and Jonathan via LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kateeversole/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jongwillim/

There were several resources and links mentioned in our recording:

The Age of AI event, March 4, London: https://www.pharmabrands.ca/age-of-ai-europe
PharmaBrands report on AI literacy: https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/65b7dd23f5d4facb3c95fdf7/678e3106eb089ba6a175a282_AI%20Literacy%20Report_2025%20(3).pdf

Free webinar on Gen AI 101 : https://www.pharmabrands.ca/webinar
Klick and Guardrail reference: https://www.klick.com/news/ai-compliance-breakthrough-wins-klick-prize-results-signal-industry-trends
Recommended newsletter from Klick on all things health marketing: https://www.klick.com/klickwire
Syneos Health reference: https://pmsociety.org.uk/results/pm-society-digital-awards-2024-results/pm-society-digital-awards-2024-digital-agency-of-the-year/

&amp; their trends report: https://www.syneoshealth.com/insights-hub/2025-health-trends
Pfizer and Publicis reference: https://digiday.com/marketing/with-charlie-pfizer-is-building-a-new-generative-ai-platform-for-pharma-marketing/
Sanofi reference: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexzhavoronkov/2023/06/21/sanofi-goes-all-in-on-ai/
Novo Nordisk reference: https://www.novonordisk.com/content/dam/nncorp/global/en/investors/irmaterial/cmd/2024/P10-Data-Science-and-AI.pdf
AI driven Video - Cires 21: https://www.cires21.com/
Text to speech leader - Eleven labs: https://elevenlabs.io/
Great content on marketing AI - Marketing AI institute: https://www.marketingaiinstitute.com/
Tool to reduce meetings - Loom: https://www.loom.com/</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>GenAI, pharma, healthcare, marketing, creative agency, healthcare communications</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Why agencies needs a people and culture plan, with Theresa Carter</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/0nj0y4vn-why-agencies-needs-a-people-and-culture-plan-with-theresa-carter</link>
      <itunes:title>Why agencies needs a people and culture plan, with Theresa Carter</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>130</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">40pmq7y1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 130. I’m joined by Leadership Coach and People &amp; Culture Consultant, Theresa Carter. 
 
Agencies are people businesses, so it's essential to the success of the agency to attract and recruit the right people with the right skills for the right roles. And this also means that, as the agency grows, the needs of the business change. 
 
For example, you might start your agency with small national clients, and then as you expand, you might begin to serve multinational clients that are much bigger, that operate differently. You might need different team members with different skills and experience that suits the agency's evolving needs. 
 
All of this starts with aligning your business goals with a solid people and culture plan. 

 In our chat, Theresa Carter shares:
  
·         how to create your people and culture plan from your business goals
·         what happens when some of your team members are in the wrong seats
·         how to deal with that
·         how to create some accountability for delivering your people and culture plan
·         and lots more. 
 
 
If you want some guidance to build a really strong and successful agency team that's totally aligned with your values, then please do get in touch with her via email: theresaaustincarter@gmail.com or LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/theresaaustin/
 
And if you're responsible for the retention and growth of your existing client relationships at the agency, then you can go to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and sign up for my newsletter where I share agency account management tips, strategies, mini trainings, and also key points covered by my expert podcast guests.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 130. I’m joined by Leadership Coach and People &amp; Culture Consultant, Theresa Carter.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Agencies are people businesses, so it's essential to the success of the agency to attract and recruit the right people with the right skills for the right roles. And this also means that, as the agency grows, the needs of the business change.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>For example, you might start your agency with small national clients, and then as you expand, you might begin to serve multinational clients that are much bigger, that operate differently. You might need different team members with different skills and experience that suits the agency's evolving needs.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>All of this starts with aligning your business goals with a solid people and culture plan.&nbsp;</div><div><br>&nbsp;In our chat, Theresa Carter shares:<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how to create your people and culture plan from your business goals</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;what happens when some of your team members are in the wrong seats</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how to deal with that</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how to create some accountability for delivering your people and culture plan</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;and lots more.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>If you want some guidance to build a really strong and successful agency team that's totally aligned with your values, then please do get in touch with her via email: <a href="mailto:theresaaustincarter@gmail.com">theresaaustincarter@gmail.com</a> or LinkedIn: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/theresaaustin/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/theresaaustin/</a></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>And if you're responsible for the retention and growth of your existing client relationships at the agency, then you can go to my website, <a href="https://www.accountmanagementskills.com">https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</a> and sign up for my newsletter where I share agency account management tips, strategies, mini trainings, and also key points covered by my expert podcast guests.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 28 Jan 2025 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8py7x1kw.mp3" length="51932389" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/820273e0-dcab-11ef-8053-bbca60c14f93/82027580-dcab-11ef-b4ec-c91a7c1b08df.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2596</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 130. I’m joined by Leadership Coach and People &amp; Culture Consultant, Theresa Carter. 
 
Agencies are people businesses, so it's essential to the success of the agency to attract and recruit the right people with the right skills for the right roles. And this also means that, as the agency grows, the needs of the business change. 
 
For example, you might start your agency with small national clients, and then as you expand, you might begin to serve multinational clients that are much bigger, that operate differently. You might need different team members with different skills and experience that suits the agency's evolving needs. 
 
All of this starts with aligning your business goals with a solid people and culture plan. 

 In our chat, Theresa Carter shares:
  
·         how to create your people and culture plan from your business goals
·         what happens when some of your team members are in the wrong seats
·         how to deal with that
·         how to create some accountability for delivering your people and culture plan
·         and lots more. 
 
 
If you want some guidance to build a really strong and successful agency team that's totally aligned with your values, then please do get in touch with her via email: theresaaustincarter@gmail.com or LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/theresaaustin/
 
And if you're responsible for the retention and growth of your existing client relationships at the agency, then you can go to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and sign up for my newsletter where I share agency account management tips, strategies, mini trainings, and also key points covered by my expert podcast guests.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 130. I’m joined by Leadership Coach and People &amp; Culture Consultant, Theresa Carter. 
 
Agencies are people businesses, so it's essential to the success of the agency to attract and recruit the right people with the right skills for the right roles. And this also means that, as the agency grows, the needs of the business change. 
 
For example, you might start your agency with small national clients, and then as you expand, you might begin to serve multinational clients that are much bigger, that operate differently. You might need different team members with different skills and experience that suits the agency's evolving needs. 
 
All of this starts with aligning your business goals with a solid people and culture plan. 

 In our chat, Theresa Carter shares:
  
·         how to create your people and culture plan from your business goals
·         what happens when some of your team members are in the wrong seats
·         how to deal with that
·         how to create some accountability for delivering your people and culture plan
·         and lots more. 
 
 
If you want some guidance to build a really strong and successful agency team that's totally aligned with your values, then please do get in touch with her via email: theresaaustincarter@gmail.com or LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/theresaaustin/
 
And if you're responsible for the retention and growth of your existing client relationships at the agency, then you can go to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and sign up for my newsletter where I share agency account management tips, strategies, mini trainings, and also key points covered by my expert podcast guests.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>people &amp; culture, leadership coach, agency leader, agency leadership, people plan, culture plan</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Mastering client-centric account growth in 2025, with Jenny Plant</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/0nj0y55n-mastering-client-centric-account-growth-in-2025-with-jenny-plant</link>
      <itunes:title>Mastering client-centric account growth in 2025, with Jenny Plant</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>129</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">40pmq991</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 129. In this episode Jenny breaks down the three key areas to focus on if you want to maximise the growth of your existing client accounts in 2025:

1. Finding COMMERCIAL CLARITY

Agencies who predictably forecast revenue growth from existing accounts are clear where to focus their team's efforts and provide sufficient time and support for developing an account growth strategy. They have client development plans in place and work differently with 'growth' clients than ‘maintenance’ clients.

2. Having CONSULTANCY CAPABILITY

Spotting account growth opportunities and proactively developing ideas and solutions for them requires a consultative skillset and entrepreneurial mindset. Client-facing team members need to be able to have conversations about adding value and ask for testimonials and referrals comfortably.

3.  Embedding CULTURAL CONTINUITY

To make account growth systematic and scalable it needs to be embedded as a defined repeatable process in the agency that’s followed by everyone. A process helps new joiners hit the ground running and ensures client-centric behaviours are ‘hard wired’ into the business.

She shares soundbites from participants of her Account Accelerator programme who provide tips and examples of how they’ve implemented strategies in each of these areas.

If you’re considering improving your client retention and growth skills, check out the training options on our website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and if you’d like to discuss your training needs with Jenny you can book a 20 minute call here: https://calendly.com/jennyplant/account-accelerator-discovery-call

Sign up to receive our regular newsletter where we share account management tips, and notify you of upcoming podcast guests and trainings.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 129. In this episode Jenny breaks down the three key areas to focus on if you want to maximise the growth of your existing client accounts in 2025:<br><br>1. Finding COMMERCIAL CLARITY<br><br>Agencies who predictably forecast revenue growth from existing accounts are clear where to focus their team's efforts and provide sufficient time and support for developing an account growth strategy. They have client development plans in place and work differently with 'growth' clients than ‘maintenance’ clients.<br><br>2. Having CONSULTANCY CAPABILITY<br><br>Spotting account growth opportunities and proactively developing ideas and solutions for them requires a consultative skillset and entrepreneurial mindset. Client-facing team members need to be able to have conversations about adding value and ask for testimonials and referrals comfortably.<br><br>3.&nbsp; Embedding CULTURAL CONTINUITY<br><br>To make account growth systematic and scalable it needs to be embedded as a defined repeatable process in the agency that’s followed by everyone. A process helps new joiners hit the ground running and ensures client-centric behaviours are ‘hard wired’ into the business.<br><br>She shares soundbites from participants of her Account Accelerator programme who provide tips and examples of how they’ve implemented strategies in each of these areas.<br><br>If you’re considering improving your client retention and growth skills, check out the training options on our website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and if you’d like to discuss your training needs with Jenny you can book a 20 minute call here: https://calendly.com/jennyplant/account-accelerator-discovery-call<br><br>Sign up to receive our regular newsletter where we share account management tips, and notify you of upcoming podcast guests and trainings.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 14 Jan 2025 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/wqy75ykw.mp3" length="35195736" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/8b60c590-cceb-11ef-9175-115d9eba0151/8b60c710-cceb-11ef-988f-e79ff8c2d6a1.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>1759</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 129. In this episode Jenny breaks down the three key areas to focus on if you want to maximise the growth of your existing client accounts in 2025:

1. Finding COMMERCIAL CLARITY

Agencies who predictably forecast revenue growth from existing accounts are clear where to focus their team's efforts and provide sufficient time and support for developing an account growth strategy. They have client development plans in place and work differently with 'growth' clients than ‘maintenance’ clients.

2. Having CONSULTANCY CAPABILITY

Spotting account growth opportunities and proactively developing ideas and solutions for them requires a consultative skillset and entrepreneurial mindset. Client-facing team members need to be able to have conversations about adding value and ask for testimonials and referrals comfortably.

3.  Embedding CULTURAL CONTINUITY

To make account growth systematic and scalable it needs to be embedded as a defined repeatable process in the agency that’s followed by everyone. A process helps new joiners hit the ground running and ensures client-centric behaviours are ‘hard wired’ into the business.

She shares soundbites from participants of her Account Accelerator programme who provide tips and examples of how they’ve implemented strategies in each of these areas.

If you’re considering improving your client retention and growth skills, check out the training options on our website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and if you’d like to discuss your training needs with Jenny you can book a 20 minute call here: https://calendly.com/jennyplant/account-accelerator-discovery-call

Sign up to receive our regular newsletter where we share account management tips, and notify you of upcoming podcast guests and trainings.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 129. In this episode Jenny breaks down the three key areas to focus on if you want to maximise the growth of your existing client accounts in 2025:

1. Finding COMMERCIAL CLARITY

Agencies who predictably forecast revenue growth from existing accounts are clear where to focus their team's efforts and provide sufficient time and support for developing an account growth strategy. They have client development plans in place and work differently with 'growth' clients than ‘maintenance’ clients.

2. Having CONSULTANCY CAPABILITY

Spotting account growth opportunities and proactively developing ideas and solutions for them requires a consultative skillset and entrepreneurial mindset. Client-facing team members need to be able to have conversations about adding value and ask for testimonials and referrals comfortably.

3.  Embedding CULTURAL CONTINUITY

To make account growth systematic and scalable it needs to be embedded as a defined repeatable process in the agency that’s followed by everyone. A process helps new joiners hit the ground running and ensures client-centric behaviours are ‘hard wired’ into the business.

She shares soundbites from participants of her Account Accelerator programme who provide tips and examples of how they’ve implemented strategies in each of these areas.

If you’re considering improving your client retention and growth skills, check out the training options on our website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and if you’d like to discuss your training needs with Jenny you can book a 20 minute call here: https://calendly.com/jennyplant/account-accelerator-discovery-call

Sign up to receive our regular newsletter where we share account management tips, and notify you of upcoming podcast guests and trainings.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to be a leader people want to follow,  with Traci Schubert Barrett</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/pnlxl1yn-how-to-be-a-leader-people-want-to-follow-with-traci-barrett</link>
      <itunes:title>How to be a leader people want to follow,  with Traci Schubert Barrett</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>128</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">x0ln6mr0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 128. This conversation is going to be particularly interesting for you if you’re keen to develop your leadership skills.
It’s for you if you’re currently in charge of the agency and leading the whole team OR you’re leading an AM team within the agency - and you want to go from being a ‘good’ leader to being a ‘great’ leader.
Founder of Navigate The Journey and author of ‘What If There’s More?: Finding Significance Beyond Success’, Traci Schubert Barrett shares actionable tips and advice on how to lead with purpose, navigate the complexities of scaling an agency, and foster authentic connections both with your team and your clients.
Whether you’re an agency owner grappling with leadership challenges or an account manager aspiring to step into a leadership role, this chat is packed with wisdom and practical takeaways to help you grow.
You can connect with and find out more about Traci Barrett here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracischubertbarrett/
Book: https://a.co/d/184VveL
Website: https://www.navigatethejourney.com https://www.tracischubertbarrett.com

If you’d like to stay updated with more tips and resources to enhance your account management skills, be sure to sign up for our weekly newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com
You'll receive updates about new podcast episodes, expert guest announcements, and information about training courses designed for creative agency account managers at all levels.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast, leave us a review, and share this episode with a colleague who could benefit from these insights.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 128. This conversation is going to be particularly interesting for you if you’re keen to develop your leadership skills.<br><br></div><div>It’s for you if you’re currently in charge of the agency and leading the whole team OR you’re leading an AM team within the agency - and you want to go from being a ‘good’ leader to being a ‘great’ leader.<br><br></div><div>Founder of Navigate The Journey and author of ‘What If There’s More?: Finding Significance Beyond Success’, Traci Schubert Barrett shares actionable tips and advice on how to lead with purpose, navigate the complexities of scaling an agency, and foster authentic connections both with your team and your clients.<br><br></div><div>Whether you’re an agency owner grappling with leadership challenges or an account manager aspiring to step into a leadership role, this chat is packed with wisdom and practical takeaways to help you grow.<br><br></div><div>You can connect with and find out more about Traci Barrett here:<br><br></div><div><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracischubertbarrett/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracischubertbarrett/<br></a><br></div><div>Book: <a href="https://a.co/d/184VveL">https://a.co/d/184VveL<br></a><br></div><div>Website: <a href="https://www.navigatethejourney.com/">https://www.navigatethejourney.com</a> <a href="https://www.tracischubertbarrett.com/">https://www.tracischubertbarrett.com<br></a><br></div><div>If you’d like to stay updated with more tips and resources to enhance your account management skills, be sure to sign up for our weekly newsletter at <a href="https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/">https://www.accountmanagementskills.com<br></a><br></div><div>You'll receive updates about new podcast episodes, expert guest announcements, and information about training courses designed for creative agency account managers at all levels.<br><br></div><div>Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast, leave us a review, and share this episode with a colleague who could benefit from these insights.<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Dec 2024 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/w4v4n64w.mp3" length="37609763" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/0693ea30-be24-11ef-9461-69a08f8bf439/0693ebb0-be24-11ef-bfa1-3fadcc330d9e.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>3071</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 128. This conversation is going to be particularly interesting for you if you’re keen to develop your leadership skills.
It’s for you if you’re currently in charge of the agency and leading the whole team OR you’re leading an AM team within the agency - and you want to go from being a ‘good’ leader to being a ‘great’ leader.
Founder of Navigate The Journey and author of ‘What If There’s More?: Finding Significance Beyond Success’, Traci Schubert Barrett shares actionable tips and advice on how to lead with purpose, navigate the complexities of scaling an agency, and foster authentic connections both with your team and your clients.
Whether you’re an agency owner grappling with leadership challenges or an account manager aspiring to step into a leadership role, this chat is packed with wisdom and practical takeaways to help you grow.
You can connect with and find out more about Traci Barrett here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracischubertbarrett/
Book: https://a.co/d/184VveL
Website: https://www.navigatethejourney.com https://www.tracischubertbarrett.com

If you’d like to stay updated with more tips and resources to enhance your account management skills, be sure to sign up for our weekly newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com
You'll receive updates about new podcast episodes, expert guest announcements, and information about training courses designed for creative agency account managers at all levels.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast, leave us a review, and share this episode with a colleague who could benefit from these insights.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 128. This conversation is going to be particularly interesting for you if you’re keen to develop your leadership skills.
It’s for you if you’re currently in charge of the agency and leading the whole team OR you’re leading an AM team within the agency - and you want to go from being a ‘good’ leader to being a ‘great’ leader.
Founder of Navigate The Journey and author of ‘What If There’s More?: Finding Significance Beyond Success’, Traci Schubert Barrett shares actionable tips and advice on how to lead with purpose, navigate the complexities of scaling an agency, and foster authentic connections both with your team and your clients.
Whether you’re an agency owner grappling with leadership challenges or an account manager aspiring to step into a leadership role, this chat is packed with wisdom and practical takeaways to help you grow.
You can connect with and find out more about Traci Barrett here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracischubertbarrett/
Book: https://a.co/d/184VveL
Website: https://www.navigatethejourney.com https://www.tracischubertbarrett.com

If you’d like to stay updated with more tips and resources to enhance your account management skills, be sure to sign up for our weekly newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com
You'll receive updates about new podcast episodes, expert guest announcements, and information about training courses designed for creative agency account managers at all levels.
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast, leave us a review, and share this episode with a colleague who could benefit from these insights.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>leadership, creative agency, agency scaling, growing a business</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Top 10 tips &amp; insights from the podcast in 2024, with Jenny Plant</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/28x0zwv8-top-10-tips-insights-from-the-podcast-in-2024-with-jenny-plant</link>
      <itunes:title>Top 10 tips &amp; insights from the podcast in 2024, with Jenny Plant</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>127</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">60m6k8z1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 127. Thank you for listening in 2024. Looking back at this year, I’ve been reflecting on the superb guests I’ve had on the show. I thought I’d select a handful of soundbites from this year’s podcast episodes to share with you.
This isn’t a comprehensive list - there have been so many standout moments - but these clips include tips, advice, or insights that stayed with me. I’ve shared 10 soundbites that I hope you find as useful or insightful as I did.
Stick around until the end to hear a clip from one of the most popular episodes and one that I received the most positive feedback from listeners! 
You can also read more about each of these guests by visiting this episode's page on my website here: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/top-10-tips-insights-from-the-podcast-in-2024-with-jenny-plant

These episodes are mentioned:
1. Episode 125: Dan Pfister, "How to Win Back Clients for Exceptional ROI"
2. Episode 120 &amp; 121: Carey Evans &amp; Simon Rhind-Tutt, “What Your Client Don’t Tell You”
3. Episode 116: Jack Skeels, "Why Agencies Need to Rethink Project Management"
4. Episode 117: Tim Williams, "Why Time-Based Pricing Doesn’t Work"
5. Episode 114: Gareth Healey, "Stand Out or Die"
6. Episode 115: Tim Riesterer, “Why selling to client and prospects is different"
7. Episode 109: Michael Farmer, "Why the Agency Business Model Isn’t Working"
8. Episode 91: Sharon Toerek, "How Agencies Are Navigating the Legalities of AI Use"
9. Episode 111: Alison Coward, "How a Workshop Culture Builds High-Performing 
10. Episode 105: Benjamin Dennehy &amp; Marcus Cauchi, "How to Sell"


If you’d like to be kept up to date with who is coming on the podcast, the topics we’re covering, receive tips about agency account management or to be notified about trainings I’m doing, you can sign up for my newsletter at my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 127. Thank you for listening in 2024. Looking back at this year, I’ve been reflecting on the superb guests I’ve had on the show. I thought I’d select a handful of soundbites from this year’s podcast episodes to share with you.<br>This isn’t a comprehensive list - there have been so many standout moments - but these clips include tips, advice, or insights that stayed with me. I’ve shared 10 soundbites that I hope you find as useful or insightful as I did.<br>Stick around until the end to hear a clip from one of the most popular episodes and one that I received the most positive feedback from listeners!&nbsp;<br>You can also read more about each of these guests by visiting this episode's page on my website here: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/top-10-tips-insights-from-the-podcast-in-2024-with-jenny-plant<br><br>These episodes are mentioned:<br>1. Episode 125: Dan Pfister, "How to Win Back Clients for Exceptional ROI"<br><br></div><div>2. Episode 120 &amp; 121: Carey Evans &amp; Simon Rhind-Tutt, “What Your Client Don’t Tell You”<br><br></div><div>3. Episode 116: Jack Skeels, "Why Agencies Need to Rethink Project Management"<br><br></div><div>4. Episode 117: Tim Williams, "Why Time-Based Pricing Doesn’t Work"<br><br></div><div>5. Episode 114: Gareth Healey, "Stand Out or Die"<br><br></div><div>6. Episode 115: Tim Riesterer, “Why selling to client and prospects is different"<br><br></div><div>7. Episode 109: Michael Farmer, "Why the Agency Business Model Isn’t Working"<br><br></div><div>8. Episode 91: Sharon Toerek, "How Agencies Are Navigating the Legalities of AI Use"<br><br></div><div>9. Episode 111: Alison Coward, "How a Workshop Culture Builds High-Performing&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>10. Episode 105: Benjamin Dennehy &amp; Marcus Cauchi, "How to Sell"<br><br></div><div><br><br>If you’d like to be kept up to date with who is coming on the podcast, the topics we’re covering, receive tips about agency account management or to be notified about trainings I’m doing, you can sign up for my newsletter at my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Mon, 09 Dec 2024 16:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8qy76l58.mp3" length="31094512" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/7879f000-b648-11ef-8be0-91fea24033a4/7879f2c0-b648-11ef-89c4-89950547e764.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>1554</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 127. Thank you for listening in 2024. Looking back at this year, I’ve been reflecting on the superb guests I’ve had on the show. I thought I’d select a handful of soundbites from this year’s podcast episodes to share with you.
This isn’t a comprehensive list - there have been so many standout moments - but these clips include tips, advice, or insights that stayed with me. I’ve shared 10 soundbites that I hope you find as useful or insightful as I did.
Stick around until the end to hear a clip from one of the most popular episodes and one that I received the most positive feedback from listeners! 
You can also read more about each of these guests by visiting this episode's page on my website here: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/top-10-tips-insights-from-the-podcast-in-2024-with-jenny-plant

These episodes are mentioned:
1. Episode 125: Dan Pfister, "How to Win Back Clients for Exceptional ROI"
2. Episode 120 &amp; 121: Carey Evans &amp; Simon Rhind-Tutt, “What Your Client Don’t Tell You”
3. Episode 116: Jack Skeels, "Why Agencies Need to Rethink Project Management"
4. Episode 117: Tim Williams, "Why Time-Based Pricing Doesn’t Work"
5. Episode 114: Gareth Healey, "Stand Out or Die"
6. Episode 115: Tim Riesterer, “Why selling to client and prospects is different"
7. Episode 109: Michael Farmer, "Why the Agency Business Model Isn’t Working"
8. Episode 91: Sharon Toerek, "How Agencies Are Navigating the Legalities of AI Use"
9. Episode 111: Alison Coward, "How a Workshop Culture Builds High-Performing 
10. Episode 105: Benjamin Dennehy &amp; Marcus Cauchi, "How to Sell"


If you’d like to be kept up to date with who is coming on the podcast, the topics we’re covering, receive tips about agency account management or to be notified about trainings I’m doing, you can sign up for my newsletter at my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 127. Thank you for listening in 2024. Looking back at this year, I’ve been reflecting on the superb guests I’ve had on the show. I thought I’d select a handful of soundbites from this year’s podcast episodes to share with you.
This isn’t a comprehensive list - there have been so many standout moments - but these clips include tips, advice, or insights that stayed with me. I’ve shared 10 soundbites that I hope you find as useful or insightful as I did.
Stick around until the end to hear a clip from one of the most popular episodes and one that I received the most positive feedback from listeners! 
You can also read more about each of these guests by visiting this episode's page on my website here: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/top-10-tips-insights-from-the-podcast-in-2024-with-jenny-plant

These episodes are mentioned:
1. Episode 125: Dan Pfister, "How to Win Back Clients for Exceptional ROI"
2. Episode 120 &amp; 121: Carey Evans &amp; Simon Rhind-Tutt, “What Your Client Don’t Tell You”
3. Episode 116: Jack Skeels, "Why Agencies Need to Rethink Project Management"
4. Episode 117: Tim Williams, "Why Time-Based Pricing Doesn’t Work"
5. Episode 114: Gareth Healey, "Stand Out or Die"
6. Episode 115: Tim Riesterer, “Why selling to client and prospects is different"
7. Episode 109: Michael Farmer, "Why the Agency Business Model Isn’t Working"
8. Episode 91: Sharon Toerek, "How Agencies Are Navigating the Legalities of AI Use"
9. Episode 111: Alison Coward, "How a Workshop Culture Builds High-Performing 
10. Episode 105: Benjamin Dennehy &amp; Marcus Cauchi, "How to Sell"


If you’d like to be kept up to date with who is coming on the podcast, the topics we’re covering, receive tips about agency account management or to be notified about trainings I’m doing, you can sign up for my newsletter at my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Who cares about advertising? - with Brian Jacobs and Crispin Reed</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/x8142lyn-who-cares-about-advertising-with-brian-jacobs-and-crispin-reed</link>
      <itunes:title>Who cares about advertising? - with Brian Jacobs and Crispin Reed</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>126</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">713prvq0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 126. In this episode, I chat to Brian Jacobs (Founder, BJ&amp;A) and Crispin Reed (Founder, Skyscraper Consulting) about what’s wrong with the advertising industry. 
 
And what specifically prompted the launch of their ‘Who Cares?’ initiative, aimed at tackling the pressing issues affecting the advertising industry today.

We cover:

·         what's actually wrong with the industry itself
·         the need for greater creativity and transparency in advertising
·         how Brian developed the ‘Who Cares?’ idea
·         how a one-off event has turned into a well-supported movement
·         how industry stakeholders can get involved to collaborate on initiatives
 
I do hope you’ll listen to this important discussion and visit https://www.advertisingwhocares.org to find out more and get involved. 

If you’re an agency owner and would like to discuss account retention and growth training and coaching options – or would like to reserve a spot for the next Account Accelerator (January 2025) - you can schedule a no obligation call with me to discuss your needs, via my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 126. In this episode, I chat to Brian Jacobs (Founder, BJ&amp;A) and Crispin Reed (Founder, Skyscraper Consulting) about what’s wrong with the advertising industry.&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br>And what specifically prompted the launch of their ‘Who Cares?’ initiative, aimed at tackling the pressing issues affecting the advertising industry today.<br><br></div><div>We cover:<br><br></div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;what's actually wrong with the industry itself</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;the need for greater creativity and transparency in advertising</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how Brian developed the ‘Who Cares?’ idea</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how a one-off event has turned into a well-supported movement<br>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how industry stakeholders can get involved to collaborate on initiatives<br>&nbsp;<br>I do hope you’ll listen to this important discussion and visit https://www.advertisingwhocares.org to find out more and get involved.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>If you’re an agency owner and would like to discuss account retention and growth training and coaching options – or would like to reserve a spot for the next Account Accelerator (January 2025) - you can schedule a no obligation call with me to discuss your needs, via my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 19 Nov 2024 10:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/w53q4vyw.mp3" length="61436917" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/b9cc65f0-a65d-11ef-8757-53ac1ddd17fb/b9cc6760-a65d-11ef-a174-974cf3924df9.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2559</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 126. In this episode, I chat to Brian Jacobs (Founder, BJ&amp;A) and Crispin Reed (Founder, Skyscraper Consulting) about what’s wrong with the advertising industry. 
 
And what specifically prompted the launch of their ‘Who Cares?’ initiative, aimed at tackling the pressing issues affecting the advertising industry today.

We cover:

·         what's actually wrong with the industry itself
·         the need for greater creativity and transparency in advertising
·         how Brian developed the ‘Who Cares?’ idea
·         how a one-off event has turned into a well-supported movement
·         how industry stakeholders can get involved to collaborate on initiatives
 
I do hope you’ll listen to this important discussion and visit https://www.advertisingwhocares.org to find out more and get involved. 

If you’re an agency owner and would like to discuss account retention and growth training and coaching options – or would like to reserve a spot for the next Account Accelerator (January 2025) - you can schedule a no obligation call with me to discuss your needs, via my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 126. In this episode, I chat to Brian Jacobs (Founder, BJ&amp;A) and Crispin Reed (Founder, Skyscraper Consulting) about what’s wrong with the advertising industry. 
 
And what specifically prompted the launch of their ‘Who Cares?’ initiative, aimed at tackling the pressing issues affecting the advertising industry today.

We cover:

·         what's actually wrong with the industry itself
·         the need for greater creativity and transparency in advertising
·         how Brian developed the ‘Who Cares?’ idea
·         how a one-off event has turned into a well-supported movement
·         how industry stakeholders can get involved to collaborate on initiatives
 
I do hope you’ll listen to this important discussion and visit https://www.advertisingwhocares.org to find out more and get involved. 

If you’re an agency owner and would like to discuss account retention and growth training and coaching options – or would like to reserve a spot for the next Account Accelerator (January 2025) - you can schedule a no obligation call with me to discuss your needs, via my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>From Lost to Loyal - How to win back clients for exceptional ROI, with Dan Pfister</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/08j00r18-from-lost-to-loyal-how-to-win-back-clients-for-exceptional-roi-with-dan-pfister</link>
      <itunes:title>From Lost to Loyal - How to win back clients for exceptional ROI, with Dan Pfister</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>125</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">41pmmv20</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 125. Have you ever considered contacting your old clients to see if they’d like to work with you again? If not this episode may change your mind. 
Dan Pfister is the master of running client winback campaigns and here’s what he shares with me:
·       The compelling reasons why WinBack campaigns could be the most successful and profitable thing you ever do to grow your business (the ROI is staggering)
·       A step by step guide to how to approach running a client winback campaign – and what to avoid
·       Results and examples of campaigns from many companies who have been successful

Dan is very passionate about this topic and he had me gripped with this episode, I hope you’ll end up putting some serious thought into running a client win back campaign after listening to this compelling chat. 

If you haven’t already you can find his book “Million Dollar Winback” on Amazon now. You can also connect with Dan here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/danmpfister
http://winbacklabs.com/

If you want to receive weekly tips on agency account management, learn strategies for client growth, get notified for any trainings I’m running and stay in the loop about our upcoming podcast episodes, be sure to sign up for my newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 125. Have you ever considered contacting your old clients to see if they’d like to work with you again? If not this episode may change your mind.&nbsp;<br>Dan Pfister is the master of running client winback campaigns and here’s what he shares with me:<br>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;The compelling reasons why WinBack campaigns could be the most successful and profitable thing you ever do to grow your business (the ROI is staggering)<br>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;A step by step guide to how to approach running a client winback campaign – and what to avoid<br>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Results and examples of campaigns from many companies who have been successful<br><br>Dan is very passionate about this topic and he had me gripped with this episode, I hope you’ll end up putting some serious thought into running a client win back campaign after listening to this compelling chat.&nbsp;<br><br>If you haven’t already you can find his book “Million Dollar Winback” on Amazon now. You can also connect with Dan here:<br>https://www.linkedin.com/in/danmpfister<br>http://winbacklabs.com/<br><br>If you want to receive weekly tips on agency account management, learn strategies for client growth, get notified for any trainings I’m running and stay in the loop about our upcoming podcast episodes, be sure to sign up for my newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 22 Oct 2024 12:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/87p64rmw.mp3" length="48734479" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/e3b307d0-9075-11ef-916b-b1b844fead29/e3b309f0-9075-11ef-acca-510d8915627d.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2436</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 125. Have you ever considered contacting your old clients to see if they’d like to work with you again? If not this episode may change your mind. 
Dan Pfister is the master of running client winback campaigns and here’s what he shares with me:
·       The compelling reasons why WinBack campaigns could be the most successful and profitable thing you ever do to grow your business (the ROI is staggering)
·       A step by step guide to how to approach running a client winback campaign – and what to avoid
·       Results and examples of campaigns from many companies who have been successful

Dan is very passionate about this topic and he had me gripped with this episode, I hope you’ll end up putting some serious thought into running a client win back campaign after listening to this compelling chat. 

If you haven’t already you can find his book “Million Dollar Winback” on Amazon now. You can also connect with Dan here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/danmpfister
http://winbacklabs.com/

If you want to receive weekly tips on agency account management, learn strategies for client growth, get notified for any trainings I’m running and stay in the loop about our upcoming podcast episodes, be sure to sign up for my newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 125. Have you ever considered contacting your old clients to see if they’d like to work with you again? If not this episode may change your mind. 
Dan Pfister is the master of running client winback campaigns and here’s what he shares with me:
·       The compelling reasons why WinBack campaigns could be the most successful and profitable thing you ever do to grow your business (the ROI is staggering)
·       A step by step guide to how to approach running a client winback campaign – and what to avoid
·       Results and examples of campaigns from many companies who have been successful

Dan is very passionate about this topic and he had me gripped with this episode, I hope you’ll end up putting some serious thought into running a client win back campaign after listening to this compelling chat. 

If you haven’t already you can find his book “Million Dollar Winback” on Amazon now. You can also connect with Dan here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/danmpfister
http://winbacklabs.com/

If you want to receive weekly tips on agency account management, learn strategies for client growth, get notified for any trainings I’m running and stay in the loop about our upcoming podcast episodes, be sure to sign up for my newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How a new head of client services impacts the agency, with Emily Brown &amp; Matt Loughlin</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/rnkmm31n-how-a-new-head-of-client-services-impacts-the-agency-with-emily-brown-matt-loughlin</link>
      <itunes:title>How a new head of client services impacts the agency, with Emily Brown &amp; Matt Loughlin</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>124</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">70w77850</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 124. This will be particularly interesting for you if you want to know how much the head of client services role can impact the agency's business. 

Listen in if you don’t currently have a client services team and you're perhaps thinking about having one, or your client services function isn't performing as you'd like it to and you're exploring options for perhaps bringing in a head of department. Or maybe you are the client services director in your agency and are curious to understand how someone else in this role operates. Emily Brown and Matt Loughlin joined me today from digital marketing agency, Receptional. 

I met Emily when she was just a few months into joining the agency and I've been very lucky to have the opportunity of working with her in my Account Accelerator programme, and that means I've been working with her for almost a year. This conversation reflects on what she's achieved as the new head of client service. 

Here are the key themes that we cover during our chat:

•	why the agency decided in the first place to hire a head of client service 
•	Emily's first 90 days in the role, and how she pinpointed and tackled the key priorities and established herself with the team
•	the impact this CSD role has had on the agency's operations team and clients just 16 months later
•	and the learnings from both Matt and Emily's perspective of establishing this new role in the agency that hopefully you can benefit from in your agency. 

They share lots of detailed tips and examples that I'm sure you're going to find useful. 

You can connect with Emily and Matt here:
https://www.receptional.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-brown-5073993a/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattloughlin/


If you'd like to discuss training and coaching for your client-facing account management team, then you can book a no obligation call with me via my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com. You’ll be able to see the different training options I have available, from self-study to long term coaching, and also sign up for my regular newsletter.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 124. This will be particularly interesting for you if you want to know how much the head of client services role can impact the agency's business.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Listen in if you don’t currently have a client services team and you're perhaps thinking about having one, or your client services function isn't performing as you'd like it to and you're exploring options for perhaps bringing in a head of department. Or maybe you are the client services director in your agency and are curious to understand how someone else in this role operates. Emily Brown and Matt Loughlin joined me today from digital marketing agency, Receptional.&nbsp;</div><div><br>&nbsp;I met Emily when she was just a few months into joining the agency and I've been very lucky to have the opportunity of working with her in my Account Accelerator programme, and that means I've been working with her for almost a year. This conversation reflects on what she's achieved as the new head of client service.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Here are the key themes that we cover during our chat:</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;why the agency decided in the first place to hire a head of client service&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Emily's first 90 days in the role, and how she pinpointed and tackled the key priorities and established herself with the team</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;the impact this CSD role has had on the agency's operations team and clients just 16 months later</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;and the learnings from both Matt and Emily's perspective of establishing this new role in the agency that hopefully you can benefit from in your agency.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>They share lots of detailed tips and examples that I'm sure you're going to find useful.&nbsp;<br><br>You can connect with Emily and Matt here:<br>https://www.receptional.com<br>https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-brown-5073993a/<br>https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattloughlin/</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>If you'd like to discuss training and coaching for your client-facing account management team, then you can book a no obligation call with me via my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com. You’ll be able to see the different training options I have available, from self-study to long term coaching, and also sign up for my regular newsletter.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 22 Oct 2024 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/w53qn25w.mp3" length="56113026" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/3dced610-8d4f-11ef-82cf-e74624a43307/3dced7c0-8d4f-11ef-835f-c7af2f4b0b2d.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2805</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 124. This will be particularly interesting for you if you want to know how much the head of client services role can impact the agency's business. 

Listen in if you don’t currently have a client services team and you're perhaps thinking about having one, or your client services function isn't performing as you'd like it to and you're exploring options for perhaps bringing in a head of department. Or maybe you are the client services director in your agency and are curious to understand how someone else in this role operates. Emily Brown and Matt Loughlin joined me today from digital marketing agency, Receptional. 

I met Emily when she was just a few months into joining the agency and I've been very lucky to have the opportunity of working with her in my Account Accelerator programme, and that means I've been working with her for almost a year. This conversation reflects on what she's achieved as the new head of client service. 

Here are the key themes that we cover during our chat:

•	why the agency decided in the first place to hire a head of client service 
•	Emily's first 90 days in the role, and how she pinpointed and tackled the key priorities and established herself with the team
•	the impact this CSD role has had on the agency's operations team and clients just 16 months later
•	and the learnings from both Matt and Emily's perspective of establishing this new role in the agency that hopefully you can benefit from in your agency. 

They share lots of detailed tips and examples that I'm sure you're going to find useful. 

You can connect with Emily and Matt here:
https://www.receptional.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-brown-5073993a/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattloughlin/


If you'd like to discuss training and coaching for your client-facing account management team, then you can book a no obligation call with me via my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com. You’ll be able to see the different training options I have available, from self-study to long term coaching, and also sign up for my regular newsletter.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 124. This will be particularly interesting for you if you want to know how much the head of client services role can impact the agency's business. 

Listen in if you don’t currently have a client services team and you're perhaps thinking about having one, or your client services function isn't performing as you'd like it to and you're exploring options for perhaps bringing in a head of department. Or maybe you are the client services director in your agency and are curious to understand how someone else in this role operates. Emily Brown and Matt Loughlin joined me today from digital marketing agency, Receptional. 

I met Emily when she was just a few months into joining the agency and I've been very lucky to have the opportunity of working with her in my Account Accelerator programme, and that means I've been working with her for almost a year. This conversation reflects on what she's achieved as the new head of client service. 

Here are the key themes that we cover during our chat:

•	why the agency decided in the first place to hire a head of client service 
•	Emily's first 90 days in the role, and how she pinpointed and tackled the key priorities and established herself with the team
•	the impact this CSD role has had on the agency's operations team and clients just 16 months later
•	and the learnings from both Matt and Emily's perspective of establishing this new role in the agency that hopefully you can benefit from in your agency. 

They share lots of detailed tips and examples that I'm sure you're going to find useful. 

You can connect with Emily and Matt here:
https://www.receptional.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-brown-5073993a/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattloughlin/


If you'd like to discuss training and coaching for your client-facing account management team, then you can book a no obligation call with me via my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com. You’ll be able to see the different training options I have available, from self-study to long term coaching, and also sign up for my regular newsletter.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>client services, marketing, commercial director, client services director</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to evaluate your agency operations, with Harv Nagra</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/qn0qq698-how-to-evaluate-your-agency-operations-with-harv-nagra</link>
      <itunes:title>How to evaluate your agency operations, with Harv Nagra</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>123</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">p1kppzy0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 123. This episode will be particularly interesting for you if you're responsible for your agency's internal operations. You might be the operations director, head of project management, or even a client services director, but if you think your internal agency operations could be more efficient and streamlined, then this episode is for you. 

Harv Nagra is an agency ops consultant, a former in-house agency ops director, and Head of Brand Comms at agency work management platform Scoro. He's recently launched The Handbook: The Agency Operations Podcast.

Here’s just a flavour of what Harv shared in our chat:
•	how to assess how developed your operations are using a five-stage business maturity model
•	what you should typically have in place at each of the five stages and what actions you need to take to move to the next stage. 
•	and some of the key trends Harv is seeing for agencies when it comes to operations. 

Please do follow Harv on LinkedIn because he shares really good insights and tips about agency operations and project management. 

http://linkedin.com/in/harvnagra

The Handbook: The Agency Operations Podcast:
Podcast on Apple: https://apple.co/3y2R8DN
Podcast on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3Lrg9f0

If you'd like to hear about my upcoming podcast episodes, account growth training sessions, tips about account management and news about the agency industry, you can sign up to receive my regular newsletter by going to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com, or connect with me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 123. This episode will be particularly interesting for you if you're responsible for your agency's internal operations. You might be the operations director, head of project management, or even a client services director, but if you think your internal agency operations could be more efficient and streamlined, then this episode is for you.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Harv Nagra is an agency ops consultant, a former in-house agency ops director, and Head of Brand Comms at agency work management platform Scoro. He's recently launched The Handbook: The Agency Operations Podcast.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Here’s just a flavour of what Harv shared in our chat:</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how to assess how developed your operations are using a five-stage business maturity model</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;what you should typically have in place at each of the five stages and what actions you need to take to move to the next stage.&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;and some of the key trends Harv is seeing for agencies when it comes to operations.&nbsp;</div><div><br>&nbsp;Please do follow Harv on LinkedIn because he shares really good insights and tips about agency operations and project management.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><a href="http://linkedin.com/in/harvnagra">http://linkedin.com/in/harvnagra</a><br>&nbsp;<br> The Handbook: The Agency Operations Podcast:</div><div>Podcast on Apple: <a href="https://apple.co/3y2R8DN">https://apple.co/3y2R8DN</a></div><div>Podcast on Spotify: <a href="https://spoti.fi/3Lrg9f0">https://spoti.fi/3Lrg9f0</a></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>If you'd like to hear about my upcoming podcast episodes, account growth training sessions, tips about account management and news about the agency industry, you can sign up to receive my regular newsletter by going to my website, <a href="https://www.accountmanagementskills.com">https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</a>, or connect with me on LinkedIn: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant">https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant</a>&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2024 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/wk47xjv8.mp3" length="61171377" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/0d706f80-847d-11ef-bf76-f3c9da4f810a/0d707350-847d-11ef-b1f1-4b82cde505ed.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>3058</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 123. This episode will be particularly interesting for you if you're responsible for your agency's internal operations. You might be the operations director, head of project management, or even a client services director, but if you think your internal agency operations could be more efficient and streamlined, then this episode is for you. 

Harv Nagra is an agency ops consultant, a former in-house agency ops director, and Head of Brand Comms at agency work management platform Scoro. He's recently launched The Handbook: The Agency Operations Podcast.

Here’s just a flavour of what Harv shared in our chat:
•	how to assess how developed your operations are using a five-stage business maturity model
•	what you should typically have in place at each of the five stages and what actions you need to take to move to the next stage. 
•	and some of the key trends Harv is seeing for agencies when it comes to operations. 

Please do follow Harv on LinkedIn because he shares really good insights and tips about agency operations and project management. 

http://linkedin.com/in/harvnagra

The Handbook: The Agency Operations Podcast:
Podcast on Apple: https://apple.co/3y2R8DN
Podcast on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3Lrg9f0

If you'd like to hear about my upcoming podcast episodes, account growth training sessions, tips about account management and news about the agency industry, you can sign up to receive my regular newsletter by going to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com, or connect with me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 123. This episode will be particularly interesting for you if you're responsible for your agency's internal operations. You might be the operations director, head of project management, or even a client services director, but if you think your internal agency operations could be more efficient and streamlined, then this episode is for you. 

Harv Nagra is an agency ops consultant, a former in-house agency ops director, and Head of Brand Comms at agency work management platform Scoro. He's recently launched The Handbook: The Agency Operations Podcast.

Here’s just a flavour of what Harv shared in our chat:
•	how to assess how developed your operations are using a five-stage business maturity model
•	what you should typically have in place at each of the five stages and what actions you need to take to move to the next stage. 
•	and some of the key trends Harv is seeing for agencies when it comes to operations. 

Please do follow Harv on LinkedIn because he shares really good insights and tips about agency operations and project management. 

http://linkedin.com/in/harvnagra

The Handbook: The Agency Operations Podcast:
Podcast on Apple: https://apple.co/3y2R8DN
Podcast on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3Lrg9f0

If you'd like to hear about my upcoming podcast episodes, account growth training sessions, tips about account management and news about the agency industry, you can sign up to receive my regular newsletter by going to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com, or connect with me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>client services, operations director, agency operations, brand communications</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How agency owners create a 'market of one', with Robin Bonn</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/58zxxlz8-how-agency-owners-create-a-market-of-one-with-robin-bonn</link>
      <itunes:title>How agency owners create a 'market of one', with Robin Bonn</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>122</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">81z77yl0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 122. This episode will be particularly relevant for you if you're an ambitious agency owner looking to accelerate the growth of your agency. 

- Maybe you think you're not standing out enough from your competitors. 
- Perhaps you feel your positioning needs dialling in because maybe you've lost some pitches or you've had to drop your prices. 
- Or maybe you just want to be seen as more specialized and expert. 

Agency consultant and CEO of Co:definery, Robin Bonn, joins me to bust the myth that the agency market is oversupplied, and he explains how helps agencies create a future proofed, high margin agency business by creating their market of one. 

Robin explains exactly what a ‘market of one’ is, and how he's helped many agencies accelerate their growth with this approach. 

We also discussed some of the challenges agency owners are facing right now, and Robin offers some tips for how to remain positive and navigate the current climate. 

You can get in touch with Robin here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/
https://www.codefinery.com/

Finally, if you are in an agency account management role and you'd like to be kept up to date with the next episodes that I'm going to be sharing on the podcast, and you also want tips about the account management role and any trainings that I'm doing in the future, then you can sign up for my newsletter via my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 122. This episode will be particularly relevant for you if you're an ambitious agency owner looking to accelerate the growth of your agency. <br><br>- Maybe you think you're not standing out enough from your competitors. <br>- Perhaps you feel your positioning needs dialling in because maybe you've lost some pitches or you've had to drop your prices. <br>- Or maybe you just want to be seen as more specialized and expert. <br><br>Agency consultant and CEO of Co:definery, Robin Bonn, joins me to bust the myth that the agency market is oversupplied, and he explains how helps agencies create a future proofed, high margin agency business by creating their market of one. <br><br>Robin explains exactly what a ‘market of one’ is, and how he's helped many agencies accelerate their growth with this approach. <br><br>We also discussed some of the challenges agency owners are facing right now, and Robin offers some tips for how to remain positive and navigate the current climate. <br><br>You can get in touch with Robin here:<br><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/</a><br><a href="https://www.codefinery.com/">https://www.codefinery.com/</a><br><br>Finally, if you are in an agency account management role and you'd like to be kept up to date with the next episodes that I'm going to be sharing on the podcast, and you also want tips about the account management role and any trainings that I'm doing in the future, then you can sign up for my newsletter via my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com<br><br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 24 Sep 2024 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8k47x40w.mp3" length="52238544" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/3fc452a0-7502-11ef-b0a3-5506dac49095/3fc45460-7502-11ef-a9e3-657d17f24bee.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2611</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 122. This episode will be particularly relevant for you if you're an ambitious agency owner looking to accelerate the growth of your agency. 

- Maybe you think you're not standing out enough from your competitors. 
- Perhaps you feel your positioning needs dialling in because maybe you've lost some pitches or you've had to drop your prices. 
- Or maybe you just want to be seen as more specialized and expert. 

Agency consultant and CEO of Co:definery, Robin Bonn, joins me to bust the myth that the agency market is oversupplied, and he explains how helps agencies create a future proofed, high margin agency business by creating their market of one. 

Robin explains exactly what a ‘market of one’ is, and how he's helped many agencies accelerate their growth with this approach. 

We also discussed some of the challenges agency owners are facing right now, and Robin offers some tips for how to remain positive and navigate the current climate. 

You can get in touch with Robin here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/
https://www.codefinery.com/

Finally, if you are in an agency account management role and you'd like to be kept up to date with the next episodes that I'm going to be sharing on the podcast, and you also want tips about the account management role and any trainings that I'm doing in the future, then you can sign up for my newsletter via my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 122. This episode will be particularly relevant for you if you're an ambitious agency owner looking to accelerate the growth of your agency. 

- Maybe you think you're not standing out enough from your competitors. 
- Perhaps you feel your positioning needs dialling in because maybe you've lost some pitches or you've had to drop your prices. 
- Or maybe you just want to be seen as more specialized and expert. 

Agency consultant and CEO of Co:definery, Robin Bonn, joins me to bust the myth that the agency market is oversupplied, and he explains how helps agencies create a future proofed, high margin agency business by creating their market of one. 

Robin explains exactly what a ‘market of one’ is, and how he's helped many agencies accelerate their growth with this approach. 

We also discussed some of the challenges agency owners are facing right now, and Robin offers some tips for how to remain positive and navigate the current climate. 

You can get in touch with Robin here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/
https://www.codefinery.com/

Finally, if you are in an agency account management role and you'd like to be kept up to date with the next episodes that I'm going to be sharing on the podcast, and you also want tips about the account management role and any trainings that I'm doing in the future, then you can sign up for my newsletter via my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What your clients don't tell you (part 2) with Carey Evans &amp; Simon Rhind-Tutt</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/rnkm0xrn-what-your-clients-don-t-tell-you-part-2-with-carey-evans-simon-rhind-tutt</link>
      <itunes:title>What your clients don't tell you (part 2) with Carey Evans &amp; Simon Rhind-Tutt</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>121</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">70w7pyn0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 121. This is part two of a two-part interview with Simon Rhind-Tutt and Carey Evans, who are Co-Founders of Relationship Audits. 

If you missed part one, I would really recommend you go back and have a listen (it’s episode 120). Simon and Carey just packed it full of insights and tips for agencies when it comes to strengthening their client relationships. 

This episode is no exception and we talk about:
- what every client wants but rarely gets from an agency
- what a brain trust is and why you might want one for your agency
- and why leveraging your learnings from other client relationships is often a huge missed opportunity. 

If you'd like notifications about future guests coming on the podcast, or notes from the episodes that I have with guests, as well as tips on agency account management and potential trainings, then you can sign up for my weekly newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 121. This is part two of a two-part interview with Simon Rhind-Tutt and Carey Evans, who are Co-Founders of Relationship Audits.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>If you missed part one, I would really recommend you go back and have a listen (it’s episode 120). Simon and Carey just packed it full of insights and tips for agencies when it comes to strengthening their client relationships.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>This episode is no exception and we talk about:<br>- what every client wants but rarely gets from an agency</div><div>- what a brain trust is and why you might want one for your agency</div><div>- and why leveraging your learnings from other client relationships is often a huge missed opportunity.&nbsp;</div><div><br>&nbsp;If you'd like notifications about future guests coming on the podcast, or notes from the episodes that I have with guests, as well as tips on agency account management and potential trainings, then you can sign up for my weekly newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 03 Sep 2024 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/84v4v628.mp3" length="75347386" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/8270a330-65e8-11ef-9694-c5ef534c31b5/8270a6f0-65e8-11ef-b6c3-c36254741b3d.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>3139</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 121. This is part two of a two-part interview with Simon Rhind-Tutt and Carey Evans, who are Co-Founders of Relationship Audits. 

If you missed part one, I would really recommend you go back and have a listen (it’s episode 120). Simon and Carey just packed it full of insights and tips for agencies when it comes to strengthening their client relationships. 

This episode is no exception and we talk about:
- what every client wants but rarely gets from an agency
- what a brain trust is and why you might want one for your agency
- and why leveraging your learnings from other client relationships is often a huge missed opportunity. 

If you'd like notifications about future guests coming on the podcast, or notes from the episodes that I have with guests, as well as tips on agency account management and potential trainings, then you can sign up for my weekly newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 121. This is part two of a two-part interview with Simon Rhind-Tutt and Carey Evans, who are Co-Founders of Relationship Audits. 

If you missed part one, I would really recommend you go back and have a listen (it’s episode 120). Simon and Carey just packed it full of insights and tips for agencies when it comes to strengthening their client relationships. 

This episode is no exception and we talk about:
- what every client wants but rarely gets from an agency
- what a brain trust is and why you might want one for your agency
- and why leveraging your learnings from other client relationships is often a huge missed opportunity. 

If you'd like notifications about future guests coming on the podcast, or notes from the episodes that I have with guests, as well as tips on agency account management and potential trainings, then you can sign up for my weekly newsletter at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>client relationships, agency insights, creative agency tips</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What your clients don't tell you (part 1) with Carey Evans and Simon Rhind-Tutt</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/08j04l48-what-your-clients-don-t-tell-you-part-1-with-carey-evans-and-simon-rhind-tutt</link>
      <itunes:title>What your clients don't tell you (part 1) with Carey Evans and Simon Rhind-Tutt</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>120</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">41pm7r70</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 120, which is the first of two episodes covering my in-depth chat with Carey Evans and Simon Rhind-Tutt, Co-Founders of Relationship Audits®. 

I met Simon and Carey many years ago when I was working as client services director for Publicis life Brands. We were struggling with a client relationship, it was a very important client but it wasn't going well. Whilst we knew some of the reasons why the relationship was faltering, we didn’t know the whole story, so we invited in Simon and Carey to evaluate our relationship. Essentially, they went into the client’s offices and interviewed all of key client stakeholders to find out what was going on and their perception of the agency. 

Not only did they uncover what was going well and what wasn't going well, they also uncovered growth opportunities for us as an agency to go back into the client and crystallize what they needed in the future and provide extra value. If we hadn't have done that and they hadn't have provided that action list, report and their recommendations, we wouldn't have retained that client for another two years, worth £700,000 to the agency per year. Immediately, the return on investment for employing the services of Relationship Audits changed the game for us. 

That’s why I am delighted that they've joined us back on the show for this two part interview, talking about what your clients don't tell you. 

Whilst you might be evaluating the strength of your relationships with your clients and asking them questions, what Relationship Audits do, and they've been doing it successfully for years, is listen for what's not being said. They have a very established question set and they're able to spot things that you will miss. 

If you would like to talk to either Carey or Simon, please visit their website, https://www.relationshipaudits.com, or send them an email at info@relationshipaudits.com

Finally, if you are in an agency account management role and you'd like to be kept up to date with the next episodes that I'm going to be sharing on the podcast, and you also want tips about the account management role and any trainings that I'm doing in the future, then you can sign up for my newsletter via my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 120, which is the first of two episodes covering my in-depth chat with Carey Evans and Simon Rhind-Tutt, Co-Founders of Relationship Audits®.&nbsp;</div><div><br>I met Simon and Carey many years ago when I was working as client services director for Publicis life Brands. We were struggling with a client relationship, it was a very important client but it wasn't going well. Whilst we knew some of the reasons why the relationship was faltering, we didn’t know the whole story, so we invited in Simon and Carey to evaluate our relationship. Essentially, they went into the client’s offices and interviewed all of key client stakeholders to find out what was going on and their perception of the agency.&nbsp;</div><div><br>&nbsp;Not only did they uncover what was going well and what wasn't going well, they also uncovered growth opportunities for us as an agency to go back into the client and crystallize what they needed in the future and provide extra value. If we hadn't have done that and they hadn't have provided that action list, report and their recommendations, we wouldn't have retained that client for another two years, worth £700,000 to the agency per year. Immediately, the return on investment for employing the services of Relationship Audits changed the game for us.&nbsp;</div><div><br>That’s why I am delighted that they've joined us back on the show for this two part interview, talking about what your clients don't tell you.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Whilst you might be evaluating the strength of your relationships with your clients and asking them questions, what Relationship Audits do, and they've been doing it successfully for years, is listen for what's not being said. They have a very established question set and they're able to spot things that you will miss.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>If you would like to talk to either Carey or Simon, please visit their website, https://www.relationshipaudits.com, or send them an <a href="mailto:email@infoelationshipaudits.com">email at info@relationshipaudits.com</a></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Finally, if you are in an agency account management role and you'd like to be kept up to date with the next episodes that I'm going to be sharing on the podcast, and you also want tips about the account management role and any trainings that I'm doing in the future, then you can sign up for my newsletter via my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 20 Aug 2024 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8mk7qm08.mp3" length="64967607" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/a91be160-5af5-11ef-922d-09b6f23a0393/a91bea20-5af5-11ef-a5e6-c37447f4023d.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2462</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 120, which is the first of two episodes covering my in-depth chat with Carey Evans and Simon Rhind-Tutt, Co-Founders of Relationship Audits®. 

I met Simon and Carey many years ago when I was working as client services director for Publicis life Brands. We were struggling with a client relationship, it was a very important client but it wasn't going well. Whilst we knew some of the reasons why the relationship was faltering, we didn’t know the whole story, so we invited in Simon and Carey to evaluate our relationship. Essentially, they went into the client’s offices and interviewed all of key client stakeholders to find out what was going on and their perception of the agency. 

Not only did they uncover what was going well and what wasn't going well, they also uncovered growth opportunities for us as an agency to go back into the client and crystallize what they needed in the future and provide extra value. If we hadn't have done that and they hadn't have provided that action list, report and their recommendations, we wouldn't have retained that client for another two years, worth £700,000 to the agency per year. Immediately, the return on investment for employing the services of Relationship Audits changed the game for us. 

That’s why I am delighted that they've joined us back on the show for this two part interview, talking about what your clients don't tell you. 

Whilst you might be evaluating the strength of your relationships with your clients and asking them questions, what Relationship Audits do, and they've been doing it successfully for years, is listen for what's not being said. They have a very established question set and they're able to spot things that you will miss. 

If you would like to talk to either Carey or Simon, please visit their website, https://www.relationshipaudits.com, or send them an email at info@relationshipaudits.com

Finally, if you are in an agency account management role and you'd like to be kept up to date with the next episodes that I'm going to be sharing on the podcast, and you also want tips about the account management role and any trainings that I'm doing in the future, then you can sign up for my newsletter via my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 120, which is the first of two episodes covering my in-depth chat with Carey Evans and Simon Rhind-Tutt, Co-Founders of Relationship Audits®. 

I met Simon and Carey many years ago when I was working as client services director for Publicis life Brands. We were struggling with a client relationship, it was a very important client but it wasn't going well. Whilst we knew some of the reasons why the relationship was faltering, we didn’t know the whole story, so we invited in Simon and Carey to evaluate our relationship. Essentially, they went into the client’s offices and interviewed all of key client stakeholders to find out what was going on and their perception of the agency. 

Not only did they uncover what was going well and what wasn't going well, they also uncovered growth opportunities for us as an agency to go back into the client and crystallize what they needed in the future and provide extra value. If we hadn't have done that and they hadn't have provided that action list, report and their recommendations, we wouldn't have retained that client for another two years, worth £700,000 to the agency per year. Immediately, the return on investment for employing the services of Relationship Audits changed the game for us. 

That’s why I am delighted that they've joined us back on the show for this two part interview, talking about what your clients don't tell you. 

Whilst you might be evaluating the strength of your relationships with your clients and asking them questions, what Relationship Audits do, and they've been doing it successfully for years, is listen for what's not being said. They have a very established question set and they're able to spot things that you will miss. 

If you would like to talk to either Carey or Simon, please visit their website, https://www.relationshipaudits.com, or send them an email at info@relationshipaudits.com

Finally, if you are in an agency account management role and you'd like to be kept up to date with the next episodes that I'm going to be sharing on the podcast, and you also want tips about the account management role and any trainings that I'm doing in the future, then you can sign up for my newsletter via my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Adapt agency services for changing client needs, with David Huckerby and Natasha Jones</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/p8lx3jj8-adapt-agency-services-for-changing-client-needs-with-david-huckerby-and-natasha-jones</link>
      <itunes:title>Adapt agency services for changing client needs, with David Huckerby and Natasha Jones</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>119</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">x1ln4ll1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 119. Today's episode is for you if you're curious to understand how another agency works, particularly when it comes to how they manage their client relationships and how they sell their services. 

I’m joined by David Huckerby, the owner, and Natasha Jones, the Account Director of creative communications agency, Conteur. Conteur is an award-winning full service creative communications agency. They help organisations in the health and social care, housing and hospitality sectors to stand out and grow through market leading PR , video and digital services.

David and Natasha share so much insight into how they run their business, including:

-	why they follow the principle of providing a personalized seven star service to their clients
-	how they realized some of their clients weren't aligned with their own board and what they learned from that
-	how that then informed how they worked with their clients moving forward
-	why they introduced service packages as a result of filling a client demand and how that impacted the time spent on proposals 
-	and why moving from a yearly client strategy focus to a quarterly focus helped the team's proactivity. 


You can connect with David and Natasha via their LinkedIn profiles:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-huckerby-05094330/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/natashajones24/

If you'd like to receive my weekly email where I share insights from the podcast, chats, tips and strategies to enhance your account management role, alerts for any training webinars I'm running, as well as all the training courses I run for the account management community,  please visit  my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and sign up for my newsletter.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 119. Today's episode is for you if you're curious to understand how another agency works, particularly when it comes to how they manage their client relationships and how they sell their services.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I’m joined by David Huckerby, the owner, and Natasha Jones, the Account Director of creative communications agency, Conteur. Conteur is an award-winning full service creative communications agency. They help organisations in the health and social care, housing and hospitality sectors to stand out and grow through market leading PR , video and digital services.<br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;David and Natasha share so much insight into how they run their business, including:<br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;</div><div>-&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; why they follow the principle of providing a personalized seven star service to their clients</div><div>-&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; how they realized some of their clients weren't aligned with their own board and what they learned from that</div><div>-&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; how that then informed how they worked with their clients moving forward</div><div>-&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; why they introduced service packages as a result of filling a client demand and how that impacted the time spent on proposals&nbsp;</div><div>-&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; and why moving from a yearly client strategy focus to a quarterly focus helped the team's proactivity.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>You can connect with David and Natasha via their LinkedIn profiles:<br>&nbsp;<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-huckerby-05094330/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-huckerby-05094330/</a></div><div><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/natashajones24/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/natashajones24/</a></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>If you'd like to receive my weekly email where I share insights from the podcast, chats, tips and strategies to enhance your account management role, alerts for any training webinars I'm running, as well as all the training courses I run for the account management community,&nbsp; please visit&nbsp; my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and sign up for my newsletter. &nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2024 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/w7pj0lj8.mp3" length="56296928" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/fd692430-5324-11ef-a9e3-11ee7f2cb000/fd692660-5324-11ef-830c-1fde9d4551e3.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2814</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 119. Today's episode is for you if you're curious to understand how another agency works, particularly when it comes to how they manage their client relationships and how they sell their services. 

I’m joined by David Huckerby, the owner, and Natasha Jones, the Account Director of creative communications agency, Conteur. Conteur is an award-winning full service creative communications agency. They help organisations in the health and social care, housing and hospitality sectors to stand out and grow through market leading PR , video and digital services.

David and Natasha share so much insight into how they run their business, including:

-	why they follow the principle of providing a personalized seven star service to their clients
-	how they realized some of their clients weren't aligned with their own board and what they learned from that
-	how that then informed how they worked with their clients moving forward
-	why they introduced service packages as a result of filling a client demand and how that impacted the time spent on proposals 
-	and why moving from a yearly client strategy focus to a quarterly focus helped the team's proactivity. 


You can connect with David and Natasha via their LinkedIn profiles:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-huckerby-05094330/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/natashajones24/

If you'd like to receive my weekly email where I share insights from the podcast, chats, tips and strategies to enhance your account management role, alerts for any training webinars I'm running, as well as all the training courses I run for the account management community,  please visit  my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and sign up for my newsletter.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 119. Today's episode is for you if you're curious to understand how another agency works, particularly when it comes to how they manage their client relationships and how they sell their services. 

I’m joined by David Huckerby, the owner, and Natasha Jones, the Account Director of creative communications agency, Conteur. Conteur is an award-winning full service creative communications agency. They help organisations in the health and social care, housing and hospitality sectors to stand out and grow through market leading PR , video and digital services.

David and Natasha share so much insight into how they run their business, including:

-	why they follow the principle of providing a personalized seven star service to their clients
-	how they realized some of their clients weren't aligned with their own board and what they learned from that
-	how that then informed how they worked with their clients moving forward
-	why they introduced service packages as a result of filling a client demand and how that impacted the time spent on proposals 
-	and why moving from a yearly client strategy focus to a quarterly focus helped the team's proactivity. 


You can connect with David and Natasha via their LinkedIn profiles:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-huckerby-05094330/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/natashajones24/

If you'd like to receive my weekly email where I share insights from the podcast, chats, tips and strategies to enhance your account management role, alerts for any training webinars I'm running, as well as all the training courses I run for the account management community,  please visit  my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and sign up for my newsletter.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to productise your agency’s value, with Brian Kessman</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/68rrv068-how-to-productise-your-agency-s-value-with-brian-kessman</link>
      <itunes:title>How to productise your agency’s value, with Brian Kessman</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>118</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">80565nv1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 118. On the last episode, I interviewed the brilliant Tim Williams from Ignition Consulting group about pricing strategies and why agencies need to sell outputs and value and not hours, particularly given the rise of generative AI. If you haven't listened to that, I'd recommend you go back and listen to episode 117 because Tim shares so many different aspects of why we need to do this as agencies. Today's guest, founder of Lodestar Agency Consulting Brian Kessman, continues this theme and shares how to make that shift to a value led revenue model. 

In this chat, we talk about:
-  what it means to productize your agency's value
- the benefits it can have on your agency's financial and operational performance
- how the agency is set up to work in this model by department
- and the skills you'll need in your account management role to be successful with this new way of working. 

Please check out Brian’s website because there's a detailed 15 minutes presentation called ‘Shift Your Agency's Model from Commoditized Services to High Value Solutions’, and it's well worth a watch if you're interested, particularly in diving deeper into value led revenue models. 
https://www.lodestaragencyconsulting.com

If you're responsible for managing client relationships and for delivering the commercial value to your clients and growing your accounts, I'm going to be running a mini training webinar in the summer of 2024, so if you'd like to be notified about when these go live, you can do that by going to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and signing up to receive my weekly emails. I typically share tips and strategies for commercially minded account managers.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 118. On the last episode, I interviewed the brilliant Tim Williams from Ignition Consulting group about pricing strategies and why agencies need to sell outputs and value and not hours, particularly given the rise of generative AI. If you haven't listened to that, I'd recommend you go back and listen to episode 117 because Tim shares so many different aspects of why we need to do this as agencies. Today's guest, founder of Lodestar Agency Consulting Brian Kessman, continues this theme and shares how to make that shift to a value led revenue model.&nbsp;<br><br>In this chat, we talk about:<br>-&nbsp; what it means to productize your agency's value<br>- the benefits it can have on your agency's financial and operational performance<br>- how the agency is set up to work in this model by department<br>- and the skills you'll need in your account management role to be successful with this new way of working.&nbsp;<br><br>Please check out Brian’s website because there's a detailed 15 minutes presentation called ‘Shift Your Agency's Model from Commoditized Services to High Value Solutions’, and it's well worth a watch if you're interested, particularly in diving deeper into value led revenue models.&nbsp;<br>https://www.lodestaragencyconsulting.com/productize-your-agencys-value<br><br>If you're responsible for managing client relationships and for delivering the commercial value to your clients and growing your accounts, I'm going to be running a mini training webinar in the summer of 2024, so if you'd like to be notified about when these go live, you can do that by going to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and signing up to receive my weekly emails. I typically share tips and strategies for commercially minded account managers.&nbsp;<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2024 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8rjrqjy8.mp3" length="64935099" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/dd565450-4417-11ef-ac1a-211433fdbf09/dd565680-4417-11ef-a665-cf8aca2ec3a8.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>3246</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 118. On the last episode, I interviewed the brilliant Tim Williams from Ignition Consulting group about pricing strategies and why agencies need to sell outputs and value and not hours, particularly given the rise of generative AI. If you haven't listened to that, I'd recommend you go back and listen to episode 117 because Tim shares so many different aspects of why we need to do this as agencies. Today's guest, founder of Lodestar Agency Consulting Brian Kessman, continues this theme and shares how to make that shift to a value led revenue model. 

In this chat, we talk about:
-  what it means to productize your agency's value
- the benefits it can have on your agency's financial and operational performance
- how the agency is set up to work in this model by department
- and the skills you'll need in your account management role to be successful with this new way of working. 

Please check out Brian’s website because there's a detailed 15 minutes presentation called ‘Shift Your Agency's Model from Commoditized Services to High Value Solutions’, and it's well worth a watch if you're interested, particularly in diving deeper into value led revenue models. 
https://www.lodestaragencyconsulting.com

If you're responsible for managing client relationships and for delivering the commercial value to your clients and growing your accounts, I'm going to be running a mini training webinar in the summer of 2024, so if you'd like to be notified about when these go live, you can do that by going to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and signing up to receive my weekly emails. I typically share tips and strategies for commercially minded account managers.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 118. On the last episode, I interviewed the brilliant Tim Williams from Ignition Consulting group about pricing strategies and why agencies need to sell outputs and value and not hours, particularly given the rise of generative AI. If you haven't listened to that, I'd recommend you go back and listen to episode 117 because Tim shares so many different aspects of why we need to do this as agencies. Today's guest, founder of Lodestar Agency Consulting Brian Kessman, continues this theme and shares how to make that shift to a value led revenue model. 

In this chat, we talk about:
-  what it means to productize your agency's value
- the benefits it can have on your agency's financial and operational performance
- how the agency is set up to work in this model by department
- and the skills you'll need in your account management role to be successful with this new way of working. 

Please check out Brian’s website because there's a detailed 15 minutes presentation called ‘Shift Your Agency's Model from Commoditized Services to High Value Solutions’, and it's well worth a watch if you're interested, particularly in diving deeper into value led revenue models. 
https://www.lodestaragencyconsulting.com

If you're responsible for managing client relationships and for delivering the commercial value to your clients and growing your accounts, I'm going to be running a mini training webinar in the summer of 2024, so if you'd like to be notified about when these go live, you can do that by going to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and signing up to receive my weekly emails. I typically share tips and strategies for commercially minded account managers.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Why time-based pricing doesn’t work for agencies, with Tim Williams</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/xn143qw8-why-time-based-pricing-doesn-t-work-for-agencies-with-tim-williams</link>
      <itunes:title>Why time-based pricing doesn’t work for agencies, with Tim Williams</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>117</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">703p96x1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 117.  This episode is going to be very relevant for you if you're responsible for pricing your agency's services. 

I first saw Tim Williams, Founding Partner of Ignition Consulting Group, speak at an IPA conference in London in 2016. He was talking to agency owners about why they needed to ditch the billable hour if they wanted a profitable business.  I've been following Tim's work in agency pricing and positioning ever since, and for me, he's been the consistent voice of sanity throughout the years. 

Here are just a few of the topics we cover in our chat: 
•	why the time based billing system doesn't work for agencies. 
•	how generative AI is only accelerating the need for agencies to rethink their pricing strategies. 
•	and Tim shares key steps you can take right now to start the transition to premium pricing. 

Ignition helps agencies and other professional service firms develop focused business strategies and transformative revenue models. You can follow Tim on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timwilliamsicg/
or via the website: https://www.ignitiongroup.com. 

If you’re listening to this during the summer of 2024,  I'm going to be running some free 20 minutes mini training webinars for agency account management soon. If you’d like to be notified about these first, please sign up to my email newsletter via https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 117.&nbsp; This episode is going to be very relevant for you if you're responsible for pricing your agency's services.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I first saw Tim Williams, Founding Partner of Ignition Consulting Group, speak at an IPA conference in London in 2016. He was talking to agency owners about why they needed to ditch the billable hour if they wanted a profitable business.&nbsp; I've been following Tim's work in agency pricing and positioning ever since, and for me, he's been the consistent voice of sanity throughout the years.&nbsp;</div><div><br>&nbsp;Here are just a few of the topics we cover in our chat:&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;why the time based billing system doesn't work for agencies.&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how generative AI is only accelerating the need for agencies to rethink their pricing strategies.&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;and Tim shares key steps you can take right now to start the transition to premium pricing.&nbsp;</div><div><br>&nbsp;Ignition helps agencies and other professional service firms develop focused business strategies and transformative revenue models. You can follow Tim on LinkedIn: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/timwilliamsicg/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/timwilliamsicg/</a></div><div>or via the website: https://www.ignitiongroup.com.&nbsp;</div><div><br>&nbsp;If you’re listening to this during the summer of 2024,&nbsp; I'm going to be running some free 20 minutes mini training webinars for agency account management soon. If you’d like to be notified about these first, please sign up to my email newsletter via https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 09 Jul 2024 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8l4z01p8.mp3" length="59205924" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/cc561f50-3955-11ef-9472-d71f975d8c43/cc5620b0-3955-11ef-83d4-2515bda3bb63.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2960</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 117.  This episode is going to be very relevant for you if you're responsible for pricing your agency's services. 

I first saw Tim Williams, Founding Partner of Ignition Consulting Group, speak at an IPA conference in London in 2016. He was talking to agency owners about why they needed to ditch the billable hour if they wanted a profitable business.  I've been following Tim's work in agency pricing and positioning ever since, and for me, he's been the consistent voice of sanity throughout the years. 

Here are just a few of the topics we cover in our chat: 
•	why the time based billing system doesn't work for agencies. 
•	how generative AI is only accelerating the need for agencies to rethink their pricing strategies. 
•	and Tim shares key steps you can take right now to start the transition to premium pricing. 

Ignition helps agencies and other professional service firms develop focused business strategies and transformative revenue models. You can follow Tim on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timwilliamsicg/
or via the website: https://www.ignitiongroup.com. 

If you’re listening to this during the summer of 2024,  I'm going to be running some free 20 minutes mini training webinars for agency account management soon. If you’d like to be notified about these first, please sign up to my email newsletter via https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 117.  This episode is going to be very relevant for you if you're responsible for pricing your agency's services. 

I first saw Tim Williams, Founding Partner of Ignition Consulting Group, speak at an IPA conference in London in 2016. He was talking to agency owners about why they needed to ditch the billable hour if they wanted a profitable business.  I've been following Tim's work in agency pricing and positioning ever since, and for me, he's been the consistent voice of sanity throughout the years. 

Here are just a few of the topics we cover in our chat: 
•	why the time based billing system doesn't work for agencies. 
•	how generative AI is only accelerating the need for agencies to rethink their pricing strategies. 
•	and Tim shares key steps you can take right now to start the transition to premium pricing. 

Ignition helps agencies and other professional service firms develop focused business strategies and transformative revenue models. You can follow Tim on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timwilliamsicg/
or via the website: https://www.ignitiongroup.com. 

If you’re listening to this during the summer of 2024,  I'm going to be running some free 20 minutes mini training webinars for agency account management soon. If you’d like to be notified about these first, please sign up to my email newsletter via https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Why agencies need to re-think project management, with Jack Skeels</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/28x0mqx8-why-agencies-need-to-re-think-project-management-with-jack-skeels</link>
      <itunes:title>Why agencies need to re-think project management, with Jack Skeels</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>116</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">60m653j1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 116. This episode is for you if you are responsible for managing projects in an agency. 

This one could be quite controversial, but equally very enlightening because my guest is going to be potentially challenging your belief about the role of project management. Jack's Skeel’s book is called ‘UNMANAGED’ and Jack makes a very compelling case for the fact that teams work more effectively when managed less, not more. 

During this chat we cover:
•	why agencies should be asking themselves what they need to start unmanaging rather than managing the origin of project management, and why it doesn't work in an uncertain environment like an agency. 
•	how less management can boost profitability and productivity
•	what we can learn from Japanese management culture
•	what Jack sees as the future of the way agencies operate
•	and the biggest mistake agencies make when scaling. 


This is such a good chat and I enjoyed being challenged to think about what we consider really the ‘sacred cow’ agency operating structure. 

I love Jack’s work and I'd urge you to get in touch because he's saving agencies tons and tons of money by completely shaking their operations up. 

If you are listening to this in Summer 2024, I'm going to be running some 20 minutes mini training sessions in the coming months. If you like the idea of jumping on a Zoom call to watch a 20 minute live training in account management, then please visit my website and sign up for my weekly email and you'll be one of the first to receive an invitation.  https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

About Jack Skeels:
Jack Skeels, author of Unmanaged: Master the Magic of Creating Empowered and Happy Organizations, is a two-time Inc. 500 award winning entrepreneur, consultant, and former management sciences researcher at the think-tank, RAND Corporation. A noted author, expert and speaker, he been published and featured over 35 times including: Ad Age, Entrepreneur.com, Business Horizons, Wall Street Journal, Training, and many other publications.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackaskeels/
https://jackskeels.medium.com
https://business.facebook.com/AgencyAgile/
https://twitter.com/AgencyAgile</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 116. This episode is for you if you are responsible for managing projects in an agency.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>This one could be quite controversial, but equally very enlightening because my guest is going to be potentially challenging your belief about the role of project management. Jack's Skeel’s book is called ‘UNMANAGED’ and Jack makes a very compelling case for the fact that teams work more effectively when managed less, not more.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>During this chat we cover:</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;why agencies should be asking themselves what they need to start unmanaging rather than managing the origin of project management, and why it doesn't work in an uncertain environment like an agency.&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how less management can boost profitability and productivity</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;what we can learn from Japanese management culture</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;what Jack sees as the future of the way agencies operate</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;and the biggest mistake agencies make when scaling.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>This is such a good chat and I enjoyed being challenged to think about what we consider really the ‘sacred cow’ agency operating structure.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I love Jack’s work and I'd urge you to get in touch because he's saving agencies tons and tons of money by completely shaking their operations up.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>If you are listening to this in Summer 2024, I'm going to be running some 20 minutes mini training sessions in the coming months. If you like the idea of jumping on a Zoom call to watch a 20 minute live training in account management, then please visit my website and sign up for my weekly email and you'll be one of the first to receive an invitation.&nbsp; https://www.accountmanagementskills.com<br><br>About Jack Skeels:<br>Jack Skeels, author of Unmanaged: Master the Magic of Creating Empowered and Happy Organizations, is a two-time Inc. 500 award winning entrepreneur, consultant, and former management sciences researcher at the think-tank, RAND Corporation. A noted author, expert and speaker, he been published and featured over 35 times including: Ad Age, Entrepreneur.com, Business Horizons, Wall Street Journal, Training, and many other publications.<br>https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackaskeels/<br>https://jackskeels.medium.com<br>https://business.facebook.com/AgencyAgile/<br>https://twitter.com/AgencyAgile</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 18 Jun 2024 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/wnny592w.mp3" length="55850757" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/fff7f810-2c95-11ef-8480-edf897ee0f84/fff7f970-2c95-11ef-b293-bf65ab6b5455.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2792</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 116. This episode is for you if you are responsible for managing projects in an agency. 

This one could be quite controversial, but equally very enlightening because my guest is going to be potentially challenging your belief about the role of project management. Jack's Skeel’s book is called ‘UNMANAGED’ and Jack makes a very compelling case for the fact that teams work more effectively when managed less, not more. 

During this chat we cover:
•	why agencies should be asking themselves what they need to start unmanaging rather than managing the origin of project management, and why it doesn't work in an uncertain environment like an agency. 
•	how less management can boost profitability and productivity
•	what we can learn from Japanese management culture
•	what Jack sees as the future of the way agencies operate
•	and the biggest mistake agencies make when scaling. 


This is such a good chat and I enjoyed being challenged to think about what we consider really the ‘sacred cow’ agency operating structure. 

I love Jack’s work and I'd urge you to get in touch because he's saving agencies tons and tons of money by completely shaking their operations up. 

If you are listening to this in Summer 2024, I'm going to be running some 20 minutes mini training sessions in the coming months. If you like the idea of jumping on a Zoom call to watch a 20 minute live training in account management, then please visit my website and sign up for my weekly email and you'll be one of the first to receive an invitation.  https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

About Jack Skeels:
Jack Skeels, author of Unmanaged: Master the Magic of Creating Empowered and Happy Organizations, is a two-time Inc. 500 award winning entrepreneur, consultant, and former management sciences researcher at the think-tank, RAND Corporation. A noted author, expert and speaker, he been published and featured over 35 times including: Ad Age, Entrepreneur.com, Business Horizons, Wall Street Journal, Training, and many other publications.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackaskeels/
https://jackskeels.medium.com
https://business.facebook.com/AgencyAgile/
https://twitter.com/AgencyAgile</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 116. This episode is for you if you are responsible for managing projects in an agency. 

This one could be quite controversial, but equally very enlightening because my guest is going to be potentially challenging your belief about the role of project management. Jack's Skeel’s book is called ‘UNMANAGED’ and Jack makes a very compelling case for the fact that teams work more effectively when managed less, not more. 

During this chat we cover:
•	why agencies should be asking themselves what they need to start unmanaging rather than managing the origin of project management, and why it doesn't work in an uncertain environment like an agency. 
•	how less management can boost profitability and productivity
•	what we can learn from Japanese management culture
•	what Jack sees as the future of the way agencies operate
•	and the biggest mistake agencies make when scaling. 


This is such a good chat and I enjoyed being challenged to think about what we consider really the ‘sacred cow’ agency operating structure. 

I love Jack’s work and I'd urge you to get in touch because he's saving agencies tons and tons of money by completely shaking their operations up. 

If you are listening to this in Summer 2024, I'm going to be running some 20 minutes mini training sessions in the coming months. If you like the idea of jumping on a Zoom call to watch a 20 minute live training in account management, then please visit my website and sign up for my weekly email and you'll be one of the first to receive an invitation.  https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

About Jack Skeels:
Jack Skeels, author of Unmanaged: Master the Magic of Creating Empowered and Happy Organizations, is a two-time Inc. 500 award winning entrepreneur, consultant, and former management sciences researcher at the think-tank, RAND Corporation. A noted author, expert and speaker, he been published and featured over 35 times including: Ad Age, Entrepreneur.com, Business Horizons, Wall Street Journal, Training, and many other publications.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackaskeels/
https://jackskeels.medium.com
https://business.facebook.com/AgencyAgile/
https://twitter.com/AgencyAgile</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>account management, business management, creative agency</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Why selling to prospects and clients is different, with Tim Riesterer</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/4n925lx8-why-selling-to-prospects-and-clients-is-different-with-tim-riesterer</link>
      <itunes:title>Why selling to prospects and clients is different, with Tim Riesterer</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>115</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">v07v8jz1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 115. If you're in agency new business or account management and responsible for contract renewals and account expansion, you're in for a huge treat because Tim Riesterer, author of ‘The Expansion Sale’ (Four Must-Win Conversations to Keep and Grow Your Customers), joins me. 

Tim is a powerhouse and working with huge enterprises in this area, but he also has a background working in agencies. 

We discussed data backed insight into:

•	the real reason prospects buy and how to change your approach to new business
•	why how you sell to prospects is not the way you should sell to existing clients
•	why overcoming the client's status quo bias is the key to unlocking client growth
•	why asking your client what problems they have just doesn't work
•	and so much more. 

I highly recommend following Tim on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-riesterer or via the Corporate Visions website: http://www.corporatevisions.com/

 and buying the book, ‘The Expansion Sale’: https://win.corporatevisions.com/The-Expansion-Sale.html

We talk about Tim's research and what overcoming a client's status quo bias means for agency account managers in my training. If you’d like to discuss account management training and all the options that we offer, then please go to my website and book a call.  https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

Or alternatively, you can send me a direct message on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 115. If you're in agency new business or account management and responsible for contract renewals and account expansion, you're in for a huge treat because Tim Riesterer, author of ‘The Expansion Sale’ (Four Must-Win Conversations to Keep and Grow Your Customers), joins me.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Tim is a powerhouse and working with huge enterprises in this area, but he also has a background working in agencies.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>We discussed data backed insight into:</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;the real reason prospects buy and how to change your approach to new business</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;why how you sell to prospects is not the way you should sell to existing clients</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;why overcoming the client's status quo bias is the key to unlocking client growth</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;why asking your client what problems they have just doesn't work</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;and so much more.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I highly recommend following Tim on LinkedIn: https://www.<a href="http://linkedin.com/in/tim-riesterer">linkedin.com/in/tim-riesterer</a> or via the Corporate Visions website: http://www.corporatevisions.com/</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;and buying the book, ‘The Expansion Sale’: https://win.corporatevisions.com/The-Expansion-Sale.html</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>We talk about Tim's research and what overcoming a client's status quo bias means for agency account managers in my training. If you’d like to discuss account management training and all the options that we offer, then please go to my website and book a call.&nbsp; https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Or alternatively, you can send me a direct message on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 04 Jun 2024 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8mk2nr58.mp3" length="58425908" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/e4a8c680-176f-11ef-92d9-37f0a836e3a0/e4a8c890-176f-11ef-97ad-45f65c3e2de4.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2921</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 115. If you're in agency new business or account management and responsible for contract renewals and account expansion, you're in for a huge treat because Tim Riesterer, author of ‘The Expansion Sale’ (Four Must-Win Conversations to Keep and Grow Your Customers), joins me. 

Tim is a powerhouse and working with huge enterprises in this area, but he also has a background working in agencies. 

We discussed data backed insight into:

•	the real reason prospects buy and how to change your approach to new business
•	why how you sell to prospects is not the way you should sell to existing clients
•	why overcoming the client's status quo bias is the key to unlocking client growth
•	why asking your client what problems they have just doesn't work
•	and so much more. 

I highly recommend following Tim on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-riesterer or via the Corporate Visions website: http://www.corporatevisions.com/

 and buying the book, ‘The Expansion Sale’: https://win.corporatevisions.com/The-Expansion-Sale.html

We talk about Tim's research and what overcoming a client's status quo bias means for agency account managers in my training. If you’d like to discuss account management training and all the options that we offer, then please go to my website and book a call.  https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

Or alternatively, you can send me a direct message on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 115. If you're in agency new business or account management and responsible for contract renewals and account expansion, you're in for a huge treat because Tim Riesterer, author of ‘The Expansion Sale’ (Four Must-Win Conversations to Keep and Grow Your Customers), joins me. 

Tim is a powerhouse and working with huge enterprises in this area, but he also has a background working in agencies. 

We discussed data backed insight into:

•	the real reason prospects buy and how to change your approach to new business
•	why how you sell to prospects is not the way you should sell to existing clients
•	why overcoming the client's status quo bias is the key to unlocking client growth
•	why asking your client what problems they have just doesn't work
•	and so much more. 

I highly recommend following Tim on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-riesterer or via the Corporate Visions website: http://www.corporatevisions.com/

 and buying the book, ‘The Expansion Sale’: https://win.corporatevisions.com/The-Expansion-Sale.html

We talk about Tim's research and what overcoming a client's status quo bias means for agency account managers in my training. If you’d like to discuss account management training and all the options that we offer, then please go to my website and book a call.  https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

Or alternatively, you can send me a direct message on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>account growth, marketing, business growth</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How agencies stand out or die, with Gareth Healey</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/pnm59pln-how-agencies-stand-out-or-die-with-gareth-healey</link>
      <itunes:title>How agencies stand out or die, with Gareth Healey</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>114</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">71vlwqj1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 114. If you're an agency owner who wants to stand out in a competitive market, then today's guest has written an entire book about it. 
Gareth Healey, author of "STAND OUT OR DIE" joins me to share:
- what he learned from scaling and exiting his business
- his seven step framework for standing out in a crowded marketplace
- and his advice for other agency owners who want to productize their services and Stay competitive in the future.

You can connect with Gareth Healey on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garethhealey/
And find his book here: http://mybook.to/STANDOUT

if you're struggling with new business right now, and perhaps finding that your pipeline is drying up or taking longer to convert, maybe it's time to turn your attention to how you can add more value to your existing clients' business and grow your accounts.

If you want to know the quickest and easiest ways that are working right now for other agencies, check out the details of my Account Accelerator programme. It's a year long coaching and training programme for those responsible for account growth in the agency who are managing those client relationships on a day to day basis.

You can find all the details here: https://www.accountmanagementskills. com/account-accelerator</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 114. If you're an agency owner who wants to stand out in a competitive market, then today's guest has written an entire book about it.&nbsp;<br>Gareth Healey, author of "STAND OUT OR DIE" joins me to share:<br>- what he learned from scaling and exiting his business<br>- his seven step framework for standing out in a crowded marketplace<br>- and his advice for other agency owners who want to productize their services and Stay competitive in the future.<br><br>You can connect with Gareth Healey on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garethhealey/<br>And find his book here: http://mybook.to/STANDOUT<br><br>if you're struggling with new business right now, and perhaps finding that your pipeline is drying up or taking longer to convert, maybe it's time to turn your attention to how you can add more value to your existing clients' business and grow your accounts.<br><br>If you want to know the quickest and easiest ways that are working right now for other agencies, check out the details of my Account Accelerator programme. It's a year long coaching and training programme for those responsible for account growth in the agency who are managing those client relationships on a day to day basis.<br><br>You can find all the details here: https://www.accountmanagementskills. com/account-accelerator</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2024 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8rjrxnn8.mp3" length="57931148" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/9c96f7a0-12b4-11ef-9139-37680b3e701f/9c96f9d0-12b4-11ef-acdf-87d831b43877.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2896</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 114. If you're an agency owner who wants to stand out in a competitive market, then today's guest has written an entire book about it. 
Gareth Healey, author of "STAND OUT OR DIE" joins me to share:
- what he learned from scaling and exiting his business
- his seven step framework for standing out in a crowded marketplace
- and his advice for other agency owners who want to productize their services and Stay competitive in the future.

You can connect with Gareth Healey on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garethhealey/
And find his book here: http://mybook.to/STANDOUT

if you're struggling with new business right now, and perhaps finding that your pipeline is drying up or taking longer to convert, maybe it's time to turn your attention to how you can add more value to your existing clients' business and grow your accounts.

If you want to know the quickest and easiest ways that are working right now for other agencies, check out the details of my Account Accelerator programme. It's a year long coaching and training programme for those responsible for account growth in the agency who are managing those client relationships on a day to day basis.

You can find all the details here: https://www.accountmanagementskills. com/account-accelerator</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 114. If you're an agency owner who wants to stand out in a competitive market, then today's guest has written an entire book about it. 
Gareth Healey, author of "STAND OUT OR DIE" joins me to share:
- what he learned from scaling and exiting his business
- his seven step framework for standing out in a crowded marketplace
- and his advice for other agency owners who want to productize their services and Stay competitive in the future.

You can connect with Gareth Healey on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garethhealey/
And find his book here: http://mybook.to/STANDOUT

if you're struggling with new business right now, and perhaps finding that your pipeline is drying up or taking longer to convert, maybe it's time to turn your attention to how you can add more value to your existing clients' business and grow your accounts.

If you want to know the quickest and easiest ways that are working right now for other agencies, check out the details of my Account Accelerator programme. It's a year long coaching and training programme for those responsible for account growth in the agency who are managing those client relationships on a day to day basis.

You can find all the details here: https://www.accountmanagementskills. com/account-accelerator</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>From laptop business to multi million dollar agency, with Jarrod Lopiccolo</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/p8m54j18-from-laptop-business-to-multi-million-dollar-agency-with-jarrod-lopiccolo</link>
      <itunes:title>From laptop business to multi million dollar agency, with Jarrod Lopiccolo</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>113</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">70vlm7z0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 113. This will be particularly inspirational for you if you are currently a small agency owner with aspirations for huge growth. Jared Lopiccolo, CEO &amp; Co-Founder of Noble Studios, built his agency from a single laptop to a multi million dollar agency. He shares some insight into what it took to achieve that growth and also his advice for other agency owners who may want to do the same thing. 

Jarrod also shares:
•	the pivotal moments that were the growth accelerator points in his business
•	how you need to change and adapt as a leader
•	how to build a strong culture of very engaged employees
•	some of the trends he's seeing in the agency landscape
•	how he thinks agencies need to adapt to what's coming. 

He shares so many more tips and insights into running the business. 

You can find Jarrod on LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/jarrodlopiccolo
and via the Noble Studios website: https://noblestudios.com/


Many agency owners come to me to talk about account management training, but the three big outcomes that they really want from the training are to answer the following three questions:
•	how can I have more predictable client retention and revenue from existing clients?
•	how can I hardwire these commercial skills into the business and ensure I have a repeatable process that everyone can follow in the agency so that if that person leaves, everybody else knows what to do when it comes to account retention and growth? 
•	How can I foster a more commercial mindset which will give me a competitive advantage in the marketplace? 

If any of those three outcomes resonate with you, please check out my Account Accelerator programme, which is on my website at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator. It is a one year coaching and training programme and it's designed for those who are working in an agency managing the client relationship, and responsible ultimately for the growth of that account.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 113. This will be particularly inspirational for you if you are currently a small agency owner with aspirations for huge growth. Jared Lopiccolo, CEO &amp; Co-Founder of Noble Studios, built his agency from a single laptop to a multi million dollar agency. He shares some insight into what it took to achieve that growth and also his advice for other agency owners who may want to do the same thing.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jarrod also shares:</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;the pivotal moments that were the growth accelerator points in his business</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how you need to change and adapt as a leader</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how to build a strong culture of very engaged employees</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;some of the trends he's seeing in the agency landscape</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how he thinks agencies need to adapt to what's coming.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>He shares so many more tips and insights into running the business.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>You can find Jarrod on LinkedIn: <a href="https://linkedin.com/in/jarrodlopiccolo">https://linkedin.com/in/jarrodlopiccolo</a><br>and via the Noble Studios website: <a href="https://noblestudios.com/">https://noblestudios.com/</a></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong><br></strong>Many agency owners come to me to talk about account management training, but the three big outcomes that they really want from the training are to answer the following three questions:</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how can I have more predictable client retention and revenue from existing clients?</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how can I hardwire these commercial skills into the business and ensure I have a repeatable process that everyone can follow in the agency so that if that person leaves, everybody else knows what to do when it comes to account retention and growth?&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;How can I foster a more commercial mindset which will give me a competitive advantage in the marketplace?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>If any of those three outcomes resonate with you, please check out my Account Accelerator programme, which is on my website at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator. It is a one year coaching and training programme and it's designed for those who are working in an agency managing the client relationship, and responsible ultimately for the growth of that account. &nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 07 May 2024 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/w21j2jx8.mp3" length="51683704" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/fc70ab50-07bd-11ef-aa37-4be5820c0f9f/fc70acc0-07bd-11ef-9a92-c1e64bf4102e.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2583</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 113. This will be particularly inspirational for you if you are currently a small agency owner with aspirations for huge growth. Jared Lopiccolo, CEO &amp; Co-Founder of Noble Studios, built his agency from a single laptop to a multi million dollar agency. He shares some insight into what it took to achieve that growth and also his advice for other agency owners who may want to do the same thing. 

Jarrod also shares:
•	the pivotal moments that were the growth accelerator points in his business
•	how you need to change and adapt as a leader
•	how to build a strong culture of very engaged employees
•	some of the trends he's seeing in the agency landscape
•	how he thinks agencies need to adapt to what's coming. 

He shares so many more tips and insights into running the business. 

You can find Jarrod on LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/jarrodlopiccolo
and via the Noble Studios website: https://noblestudios.com/


Many agency owners come to me to talk about account management training, but the three big outcomes that they really want from the training are to answer the following three questions:
•	how can I have more predictable client retention and revenue from existing clients?
•	how can I hardwire these commercial skills into the business and ensure I have a repeatable process that everyone can follow in the agency so that if that person leaves, everybody else knows what to do when it comes to account retention and growth? 
•	How can I foster a more commercial mindset which will give me a competitive advantage in the marketplace? 

If any of those three outcomes resonate with you, please check out my Account Accelerator programme, which is on my website at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator. It is a one year coaching and training programme and it's designed for those who are working in an agency managing the client relationship, and responsible ultimately for the growth of that account.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 113. This will be particularly inspirational for you if you are currently a small agency owner with aspirations for huge growth. Jared Lopiccolo, CEO &amp; Co-Founder of Noble Studios, built his agency from a single laptop to a multi million dollar agency. He shares some insight into what it took to achieve that growth and also his advice for other agency owners who may want to do the same thing. 

Jarrod also shares:
•	the pivotal moments that were the growth accelerator points in his business
•	how you need to change and adapt as a leader
•	how to build a strong culture of very engaged employees
•	some of the trends he's seeing in the agency landscape
•	how he thinks agencies need to adapt to what's coming. 

He shares so many more tips and insights into running the business. 

You can find Jarrod on LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/jarrodlopiccolo
and via the Noble Studios website: https://noblestudios.com/


Many agency owners come to me to talk about account management training, but the three big outcomes that they really want from the training are to answer the following three questions:
•	how can I have more predictable client retention and revenue from existing clients?
•	how can I hardwire these commercial skills into the business and ensure I have a repeatable process that everyone can follow in the agency so that if that person leaves, everybody else knows what to do when it comes to account retention and growth? 
•	How can I foster a more commercial mindset which will give me a competitive advantage in the marketplace? 

If any of those three outcomes resonate with you, please check out my Account Accelerator programme, which is on my website at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator. It is a one year coaching and training programme and it's designed for those who are working in an agency managing the client relationship, and responsible ultimately for the growth of that account.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to win without pitching, with Shannyn Lee</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/vn5lq958-how-to-win-without-pitching-with-shannyn-lee</link>
      <itunes:title>How to win without pitching, with Shannyn Lee</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>112</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">80q7nlq0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 112. I’m joined by Shannyn Lee, Managing Director of Win Without Pitching ®, which is widely recognised by the creative industry as one of the best quality sales training programs because it's specifically tailored to agencies.

This episode will be particularly valuable for you if your job at the agency is winning new business and you'd like to know how to do that without having to go through a costly pitch process. 

During our chat, Shannyn shares:

-	the Win Without Pitching ® principles
-	what it takes to circumnavigate a client's pitch process
-	the common sales challenges faced by agencies today
-	her advice for agency owners who want to stand out in the market, and lots more. 


Please visit the Win Without Pitching ® website (https://www.winwithoutpitching.com) to find out more about everything the company does, find which workshops are coming up. and to buy Blair Enns’ book, ‘The Win Without Pitching Manifesto’, which is practically the industry bible.  

You can connect with Shannyn Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannyn-lee-2a32846/

If you're listening to this episode in April 2024 we are opening enrolments for our May Account Accelerator™ training for those in the agency who are responsible for existing client growth. If your job is to manage client relationships and grow your accounts, check out the details on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 112. I’m joined by Shannyn Lee, Managing Director of Win Without Pitching ®, which is widely recognised by the creative industry as one of the best quality sales training programs because it's specifically tailored to agencies.<br><br>This episode will be particularly valuable for you if your job at the agency is winning new business and you'd like to know how to do that without having to go through a costly pitch process. <br><br>During our chat, Shannyn shares:<br><br>-	the Win Without Pitching ® principles<br>-	what it takes to circumnavigate a client's pitch process<br>-	the common sales challenges faced by agencies today<br>-	her advice for agency owners who want to stand out in the market, and lots more. <br><br><br>Please visit the Win Without Pitching ® website (<a href="https://www.winwithoutpitching.com">https://www.winwithoutpitching.com</a>) to find out more about everything the company does, find which workshops are coming up. and to buy Blair Enns’ book, ‘The Win Without Pitching Manifesto’, which is practically the industry bible.&nbsp; <br><br>You can connect with Shannyn Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannyn-lee-2a32846/<br><br>If you're listening to this episode in April 2024 we are opening enrolments for our May Account Accelerator™ training for those in the agency who are responsible for existing client growth. If your job is to manage client relationships and grow your accounts, check out the details on my website: <a href="https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator ">https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator&nbsp;</a></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2024 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8qy27n28.mp3" length="47640993" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/0444f040-fbdb-11ee-bd3a-09adbe519d35/0444f260-fbdb-11ee-b092-75958ec3d4ca.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2381</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 112. I’m joined by Shannyn Lee, Managing Director of Win Without Pitching ®, which is widely recognised by the creative industry as one of the best quality sales training programs because it's specifically tailored to agencies.

This episode will be particularly valuable for you if your job at the agency is winning new business and you'd like to know how to do that without having to go through a costly pitch process. 

During our chat, Shannyn shares:

-	the Win Without Pitching ® principles
-	what it takes to circumnavigate a client's pitch process
-	the common sales challenges faced by agencies today
-	her advice for agency owners who want to stand out in the market, and lots more. 


Please visit the Win Without Pitching ® website (https://www.winwithoutpitching.com) to find out more about everything the company does, find which workshops are coming up. and to buy Blair Enns’ book, ‘The Win Without Pitching Manifesto’, which is practically the industry bible.  

You can connect with Shannyn Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannyn-lee-2a32846/

If you're listening to this episode in April 2024 we are opening enrolments for our May Account Accelerator™ training for those in the agency who are responsible for existing client growth. If your job is to manage client relationships and grow your accounts, check out the details on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 112. I’m joined by Shannyn Lee, Managing Director of Win Without Pitching ®, which is widely recognised by the creative industry as one of the best quality sales training programs because it's specifically tailored to agencies.

This episode will be particularly valuable for you if your job at the agency is winning new business and you'd like to know how to do that without having to go through a costly pitch process. 

During our chat, Shannyn shares:

-	the Win Without Pitching ® principles
-	what it takes to circumnavigate a client's pitch process
-	the common sales challenges faced by agencies today
-	her advice for agency owners who want to stand out in the market, and lots more. 


Please visit the Win Without Pitching ® website (https://www.winwithoutpitching.com) to find out more about everything the company does, find which workshops are coming up. and to buy Blair Enns’ book, ‘The Win Without Pitching Manifesto’, which is practically the industry bible.  

You can connect with Shannyn Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannyn-lee-2a32846/

If you're listening to this episode in April 2024 we are opening enrolments for our May Account Accelerator™ training for those in the agency who are responsible for existing client growth. If your job is to manage client relationships and grow your accounts, check out the details on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How a workshop culture builds high performing agency teams, with Alison Coward</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/489xp1jn-how-a-workshop-culture-builds-high-performing-agency-teams-with-alison-coward</link>
      <itunes:title>How a workshop culture builds high performing agency teams, with Alison Coward</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>111</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">v17z3xw0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 111. This episode will be particularly relevant for you if you're heading up the agency or you're in charge of an agency team. 

Alison Coward is the founder of Bracket, a consultancy that partners with ambitious, forward-thinking companies to help them build high-performing and collaborative team cultures. She is a culture strategist, workshop facilitator, coach, trainer, keynote speaker and author of “A Pocket Guide to Effective Workshops” and “Workshop Culture: a guide to building teams that thrive”.


Alison shares some data backed insights, some brilliant tips and actionable strategies for high performing teams, including: 
-	why agency teams typically end up not working well together and how to address the issues
-	why creating a workshop culture is a solution to better collaboration and teamwork
-	how to make all the meetings you have more efficient and effective
-	her five pillar framework for implementing a workshop culture in your agency


Connect with Alison:
https://linkedin.com/in/alisoncoward
https://www.bracketcreative.co.uk
https://www.workshopculture.co.uk
https://amzn.eu/d/h4VDgST


Many agency owners ask me to help their client facing team with account management. Some don't have dedicated account managers, but they still want predictable client retention and growth, a repeatable, client centric client management process as well as ultimately a competitive advantage. According to Gartner, 80% of your future profits are going to come from 20% of your existing clients. Currently, many of my programme participants are just three months in and already getting very impressive account growth results, and this is down to them being coachable and also taking action on what we're covering, with me supporting them with the implementation. 

So if you're in charge of a client facing team, or maybe someone in your team is responsible for account growth and could potentially benefit from upskilling and having a strategy, then check out the details of my one year Account Accelerator training and coaching programme. You can find all the details at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 111. This episode will be particularly relevant for you if you're heading up the agency or you're in charge of an agency team.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison Coward is the founder of Bracket, a consultancy that partners with ambitious, forward-thinking companies to help them build high-performing and collaborative team cultures. She is a culture strategist, workshop facilitator, coach, trainer, keynote speaker and author of “A Pocket Guide to Effective Workshops” and “Workshop Culture: a guide to building teams that thrive”.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison shares some data backed insights, some brilliant tips and actionable strategies for high performing teams, including:&nbsp;</div><div>-&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; why agency teams typically end up not working well together and how to address the issues</div><div>-&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; why creating a workshop culture is a solution to better collaboration and teamwork</div><div>-&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; how to make all the meetings you have more efficient and effective</div><div>-&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; her five pillar framework for implementing a workshop culture in your agency<strong><br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;</strong></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Connect with Alison:<br></strong><a href="https://linkedin.com/in/alisoncoward"><strong>https://linkedin.com/in/alisoncoward</strong></a><strong><br></strong><a href="https://www.bracketcreative.co.uk"><strong>https://www.bracketcreative.co.uk</strong></a><strong><br> </strong><a href="https://www.workshopculture.co.uk"><strong>https://www.workshopculture.co.uk</strong></a></div><div><a href="https://amzn.eu/d/h4VDgST"><strong>https://amzn.eu/d/h4VDgST</strong></a><br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Many agency owners ask me to help their client facing team with account management. Some don't have dedicated account managers, but they still want predictable client retention and growth, a repeatable, client centric client management process as well as ultimately a competitive advantage. According to Gartner, 80% of your future profits are going to come from 20% of your existing clients. Currently, many of my programme participants are just three months in and already getting very impressive account growth results, and this is down to them being coachable and also taking action on what we're covering, with me supporting them with the implementation. <br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;So if you're in charge of a client facing team, or maybe someone in your team is responsible for account growth and could potentially benefit from upskilling and having a strategy, then check out the details of my one year Account Accelerator training and coaching programme. You can find all the details at <a href="https://www.accountmanagementskills.com">https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</a></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 09 Apr 2024 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/816yyylw.mp3" length="44018332" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/903e1a10-f27f-11ee-bfa2-516f671d4227/903e1c30-f27f-11ee-9010-232c1a9ae9a3.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2200</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 111. This episode will be particularly relevant for you if you're heading up the agency or you're in charge of an agency team. 

Alison Coward is the founder of Bracket, a consultancy that partners with ambitious, forward-thinking companies to help them build high-performing and collaborative team cultures. She is a culture strategist, workshop facilitator, coach, trainer, keynote speaker and author of “A Pocket Guide to Effective Workshops” and “Workshop Culture: a guide to building teams that thrive”.


Alison shares some data backed insights, some brilliant tips and actionable strategies for high performing teams, including: 
-	why agency teams typically end up not working well together and how to address the issues
-	why creating a workshop culture is a solution to better collaboration and teamwork
-	how to make all the meetings you have more efficient and effective
-	her five pillar framework for implementing a workshop culture in your agency


Connect with Alison:
https://linkedin.com/in/alisoncoward
https://www.bracketcreative.co.uk
https://www.workshopculture.co.uk
https://amzn.eu/d/h4VDgST


Many agency owners ask me to help their client facing team with account management. Some don't have dedicated account managers, but they still want predictable client retention and growth, a repeatable, client centric client management process as well as ultimately a competitive advantage. According to Gartner, 80% of your future profits are going to come from 20% of your existing clients. Currently, many of my programme participants are just three months in and already getting very impressive account growth results, and this is down to them being coachable and also taking action on what we're covering, with me supporting them with the implementation. 

So if you're in charge of a client facing team, or maybe someone in your team is responsible for account growth and could potentially benefit from upskilling and having a strategy, then check out the details of my one year Account Accelerator training and coaching programme. You can find all the details at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 111. This episode will be particularly relevant for you if you're heading up the agency or you're in charge of an agency team. 

Alison Coward is the founder of Bracket, a consultancy that partners with ambitious, forward-thinking companies to help them build high-performing and collaborative team cultures. She is a culture strategist, workshop facilitator, coach, trainer, keynote speaker and author of “A Pocket Guide to Effective Workshops” and “Workshop Culture: a guide to building teams that thrive”.


Alison shares some data backed insights, some brilliant tips and actionable strategies for high performing teams, including: 
-	why agency teams typically end up not working well together and how to address the issues
-	why creating a workshop culture is a solution to better collaboration and teamwork
-	how to make all the meetings you have more efficient and effective
-	her five pillar framework for implementing a workshop culture in your agency


Connect with Alison:
https://linkedin.com/in/alisoncoward
https://www.bracketcreative.co.uk
https://www.workshopculture.co.uk
https://amzn.eu/d/h4VDgST


Many agency owners ask me to help their client facing team with account management. Some don't have dedicated account managers, but they still want predictable client retention and growth, a repeatable, client centric client management process as well as ultimately a competitive advantage. According to Gartner, 80% of your future profits are going to come from 20% of your existing clients. Currently, many of my programme participants are just three months in and already getting very impressive account growth results, and this is down to them being coachable and also taking action on what we're covering, with me supporting them with the implementation. 

So if you're in charge of a client facing team, or maybe someone in your team is responsible for account growth and could potentially benefit from upskilling and having a strategy, then check out the details of my one year Account Accelerator training and coaching programme. You can find all the details at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>team culture, creative agency, high performing team, workshops, Alison Coward, Jenny Plant</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Selling your agency in 2024, with Jonathan Baker</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/rn70jrz8-selling-your-agency-in-2024-with-jonathan-baker</link>
      <itunes:title>Selling your agency in 2024, with Jonathan Baker</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>110</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">k18z68v1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 110. This episode is for you if you're an agency owner either interested in buying agencies to grow, or selling your agency at some point. 

It's also enlightening if you work in an agency and you want to understand the process of mergers and acquisitions. Jonathan Baker, Practice Lead in M&amp;A at Punctuation joins me and shares a lot of tips and insights about the buying and selling process, including:
- the current state of M&amp;A and why right now might be a really good time to sell
- the impact of AI on the changing agency landscape and his advice for content marketing agencies  
- why cultural alignment is key to a successful transaction 
- the criteria buyers typically use to assess an agency they might want to purchase 
- how concerned sellers should be about the terms of the transaction
- how far you get through the transaction before bringing in a lawyer
- how and when to tell your staff about the sale
- why you should ask about buyer funding if you're being bought, and so much more. 

Jonathan has created a special webpage just for this podcast's listeners at https://www.punctuation.com/creative and through this link you can also chat to him about anything you've heard on this episode.  You can also connect with on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com//in/jonathandavidbaker

Many agency owners come to me for account management skills training and to help their account managers develop an entrepreneurial mindset. And ultimately, what they are looking for are three things. They want more predictable client retention and growth, which is less expensive than pitching for new business. They want to hardwire account growth into the agency's internal processes so that account growth becomes repeatable. And they're also looking for ways to future proof their agency's business and gain a competitive advantage by offering the best client value and experience. If any of this sounds of interest, we are opening enrolments later this month for my Account Accelerator programme. It's a 12 month coaching and training programme and you can find all the details on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 110. This episode is for you if you're an agency owner either interested in buying agencies to grow, or selling your agency at some point.&nbsp;<br><br>It's also enlightening if you work in an agency and you want to understand the process of mergers and acquisitions. Jonathan Baker, Practice Lead in M&amp;A at Punctuation joins me and shares a lot of tips and insights about the buying and selling process, including:<br>- the current state of M&amp;A and why right now might be a really good time to sell<br>- the impact of AI on the changing agency landscape and his advice for content marketing agencies &nbsp;<br>- why cultural alignment is key to a successful transaction&nbsp;<br>- the criteria buyers typically use to assess an agency they might want to purchase&nbsp;<br>- how concerned sellers should be about the terms of the transaction<br>- how far you get through the transaction before bringing in a lawyer<br>- how and when to tell your staff about the sale<br>- why you should ask about buyer funding if you're being bought, and so much more.&nbsp;<br><br>Jonathan has created a special webpage just for this podcast's listeners at https://www.punctuation.com/creative and through this link you can also chat to him about anything you've heard on this episode.&nbsp; You can also connect with on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com//in/jonathandavidbaker<br><br>Many agency owners come to me for account management skills training and to help their account managers develop an entrepreneurial mindset. And ultimately, what they are looking for are three things. They want more predictable client retention and growth, which is less expensive than pitching for new business. They want to hardwire account growth into the agency's internal processes so that account growth becomes repeatable. And they're also looking for ways to future proof their agency's business and gain a competitive advantage by offering the best client value and experience. If any of this sounds of interest, we are opening enrolments later this month for my Account Accelerator programme. It's a 12 month coaching and training programme and you can find all the details on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 26 Mar 2024 13:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/84v15vq8.mp3" length="45469696" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/90b67ab0-eb77-11ee-a8b0-f9af45c9ed82/90b67cc0-eb77-11ee-80fa-e54868db3924.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2273</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 110. This episode is for you if you're an agency owner either interested in buying agencies to grow, or selling your agency at some point. 

It's also enlightening if you work in an agency and you want to understand the process of mergers and acquisitions. Jonathan Baker, Practice Lead in M&amp;A at Punctuation joins me and shares a lot of tips and insights about the buying and selling process, including:
- the current state of M&amp;A and why right now might be a really good time to sell
- the impact of AI on the changing agency landscape and his advice for content marketing agencies  
- why cultural alignment is key to a successful transaction 
- the criteria buyers typically use to assess an agency they might want to purchase 
- how concerned sellers should be about the terms of the transaction
- how far you get through the transaction before bringing in a lawyer
- how and when to tell your staff about the sale
- why you should ask about buyer funding if you're being bought, and so much more. 

Jonathan has created a special webpage just for this podcast's listeners at https://www.punctuation.com/creative and through this link you can also chat to him about anything you've heard on this episode.  You can also connect with on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com//in/jonathandavidbaker

Many agency owners come to me for account management skills training and to help their account managers develop an entrepreneurial mindset. And ultimately, what they are looking for are three things. They want more predictable client retention and growth, which is less expensive than pitching for new business. They want to hardwire account growth into the agency's internal processes so that account growth becomes repeatable. And they're also looking for ways to future proof their agency's business and gain a competitive advantage by offering the best client value and experience. If any of this sounds of interest, we are opening enrolments later this month for my Account Accelerator programme. It's a 12 month coaching and training programme and you can find all the details on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 110. This episode is for you if you're an agency owner either interested in buying agencies to grow, or selling your agency at some point. 

It's also enlightening if you work in an agency and you want to understand the process of mergers and acquisitions. Jonathan Baker, Practice Lead in M&amp;A at Punctuation joins me and shares a lot of tips and insights about the buying and selling process, including:
- the current state of M&amp;A and why right now might be a really good time to sell
- the impact of AI on the changing agency landscape and his advice for content marketing agencies  
- why cultural alignment is key to a successful transaction 
- the criteria buyers typically use to assess an agency they might want to purchase 
- how concerned sellers should be about the terms of the transaction
- how far you get through the transaction before bringing in a lawyer
- how and when to tell your staff about the sale
- why you should ask about buyer funding if you're being bought, and so much more. 

Jonathan has created a special webpage just for this podcast's listeners at https://www.punctuation.com/creative and through this link you can also chat to him about anything you've heard on this episode.  You can also connect with on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com//in/jonathandavidbaker

Many agency owners come to me for account management skills training and to help their account managers develop an entrepreneurial mindset. And ultimately, what they are looking for are three things. They want more predictable client retention and growth, which is less expensive than pitching for new business. They want to hardwire account growth into the agency's internal processes so that account growth becomes repeatable. And they're also looking for ways to future proof their agency's business and gain a competitive advantage by offering the best client value and experience. If any of this sounds of interest, we are opening enrolments later this month for my Account Accelerator programme. It's a 12 month coaching and training programme and you can find all the details on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>m&amp;a, creative agency, marketing</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Why the agency business model isn't working, with Michael Farmer</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/vn5l52k8-why-the-agency-business-model-isn-t-working-with-michael-farmer</link>
      <itunes:title>Why the agency business model isn't working, with Michael Farmer</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>109</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">80q7q2r0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 109. My guest is Michael Farmer, a management consultant who has been looking at the agency business model for over 30 years. 

He's identified three burning issues for creative agencies. 

1. Work is increasing in volume and yet agencies fees are declining. But because agencies aren't measuring scopes of work, they don't often realize the extent to which this is happening. 

2. Agencies aren't helping clients achieve their business outcomes. Clients are paying them less and typically fire them every three years and generally treat them as order takers.

3. AI is now putting fuel on this fire and is threatening to reduce the amount of creative adaptation work that agencies do. 

It’s not all doom and gloom. I found this an enlightening conversation and I particularly enjoyed listening to the history of how it was before agencies priced their services by the hour. Michael talks about the problems, but he also offers solutions. I suggest you read his latest book ‘Madison Avenue Makeover’, which maps out the transformation of Huge’s business model step by step.

http://linkedin.com/in/michaelfarmer

If you are in an account management role or you're in charge of an agency account management team and you want to raise the value of this position, then please connect with me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant or check out my Account Accelerator programme by visiting my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 109. My guest is Michael Farmer, a management consultant who has been looking at the agency business model for over 30 years.&nbsp;<br><br>He's identified three burning issues for creative agencies.&nbsp;<br><br>1. Work is increasing in volume and yet agencies fees are declining. But because agencies aren't measuring scopes of work, they don't often realize the extent to which this is happening.&nbsp;<br><br>2. Agencies aren't helping clients achieve their business outcomes. Clients are paying them less and typically fire them every three years and generally treat them as order takers.<br><br>3. AI is now putting fuel on this fire and is threatening to reduce the amount of creative adaptation work that agencies do.&nbsp;<br><br>It’s not all doom and gloom. I found this an enlightening conversation and I particularly enjoyed listening to the history of how it was before agencies priced their services by the hour. Michael talks about the problems, but he also offers solutions. I suggest you read his latest book ‘Madison Avenue Makeover’, which maps out the transformation of Huge’s business model step by step.<br><br>http://linkedin.com/in/michaelfarmer<br><br>If you are in an account management role or you're in charge of an agency account management team and you want to raise the value of this position, then please connect with me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant or check out my Account Accelerator programme by visiting my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Mon, 04 Mar 2024 16:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8mk4nnm8.mp3" length="77935720" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/7a7feba0-eb77-11ee-ac0a-fb0c7d3890ee/7a7fed00-eb77-11ee-bb75-55e17aed66e0.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3896</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 109. My guest is Michael Farmer, a management consultant who has been looking at the agency business model for over 30 years. 

He's identified three burning issues for creative agencies. 

1. Work is increasing in volume and yet agencies fees are declining. But because agencies aren't measuring scopes of work, they don't often realize the extent to which this is happening. 

2. Agencies aren't helping clients achieve their business outcomes. Clients are paying them less and typically fire them every three years and generally treat them as order takers.

3. AI is now putting fuel on this fire and is threatening to reduce the amount of creative adaptation work that agencies do. 

It’s not all doom and gloom. I found this an enlightening conversation and I particularly enjoyed listening to the history of how it was before agencies priced their services by the hour. Michael talks about the problems, but he also offers solutions. I suggest you read his latest book ‘Madison Avenue Makeover’, which maps out the transformation of Huge’s business model step by step.

http://linkedin.com/in/michaelfarmer

If you are in an account management role or you're in charge of an agency account management team and you want to raise the value of this position, then please connect with me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant or check out my Account Accelerator programme by visiting my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 109. My guest is Michael Farmer, a management consultant who has been looking at the agency business model for over 30 years. 

He's identified three burning issues for creative agencies. 

1. Work is increasing in volume and yet agencies fees are declining. But because agencies aren't measuring scopes of work, they don't often realize the extent to which this is happening. 

2. Agencies aren't helping clients achieve their business outcomes. Clients are paying them less and typically fire them every three years and generally treat them as order takers.

3. AI is now putting fuel on this fire and is threatening to reduce the amount of creative adaptation work that agencies do. 

It’s not all doom and gloom. I found this an enlightening conversation and I particularly enjoyed listening to the history of how it was before agencies priced their services by the hour. Michael talks about the problems, but he also offers solutions. I suggest you read his latest book ‘Madison Avenue Makeover’, which maps out the transformation of Huge’s business model step by step.

http://linkedin.com/in/michaelfarmer

If you are in an account management role or you're in charge of an agency account management team and you want to raise the value of this position, then please connect with me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant or check out my Account Accelerator programme by visiting my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to manage a remote agency team, with Gustavo Razzetti</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/v85l0j6n-how-to-manage-a-remote-agency-team-with-gustavo-razzetti</link>
      <itunes:title>How to manage a remote agency team, with Gustavo Razzetti</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>108</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">81q7y3v1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 108. Are you struggling to manage a remote agency team? If so, you're going to get a lot of value from my conversation with Gustavo Razzetti, CEO of Fearless Culture and author of ‘Remote, Not Distant’. 
He shared some very thought-provoking insights for agency leaders and agency teams, including

•	how remote working is only amplifying the positive and the negative aspects of your agency culture that were already present
•	how to fix the issues
•	how to make your remote brainstorming meetings more effective 
•	why agencies need to strike a balance between being overly protective and having respectful friction 
•	and how agencies celebrate individualism 

I'd highly recommend that you follow Gustavo on LinkedIn, go to his website where you can download some of his free resources, as well as investing in his book, ‘Remote, Not Distant’.

Book Remote Not Distant: https://www.amazon.com/Remote-Not-Distant-Company-Workplace-ebook/dp/B09VXX4FN3
Blog: https://gustavorazzetti.substack.com
Agency Website: https://www.fearlessculture.design
Personal Website: https://gustavorazzetti.com/</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 108. Are you struggling to manage a remote agency team? If so, you're going to get a lot of value from my conversation with Gustavo Razzetti, CEO of Fearless Culture and author of ‘Remote, Not Distant’.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>He shared some very thought-provoking insights for agency leaders and agency teams, including<br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how remote working is only amplifying the positive and the negative aspects of your agency culture that were already present</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how to fix the issues</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how to make your remote brainstorming meetings more effective&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;why agencies need to strike a balance between being overly protective and having respectful friction&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;and how agencies celebrate individualism&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>I'd highly recommend that you follow Gustavo on LinkedIn, go to his website where you can download some of his free resources, as well as investing in his book, ‘Remote, Not Distant’.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Book Remote Not Distant: https://www.amazon.com/Remote-Not-Distant-Company-Workplace-ebook/dp/B09VXX4FN3 <br>Blog:&nbsp;https://gustavorazzetti.substack.com <br>Agency Website: https://www.fearlessculture.design<br>Personal Website:&nbsp;https://gustavorazzetti.com/<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2024 11:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8rj234z8.mp3" length="51183720" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/3b7ea180-cf17-11ee-833c-c7886056d5a3/3b7ea2d0-cf17-11ee-97bb-1566fe98f5f0.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2558</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 108. Are you struggling to manage a remote agency team? If so, you're going to get a lot of value from my conversation with Gustavo Razzetti, CEO of Fearless Culture and author of ‘Remote, Not Distant’. 
He shared some very thought-provoking insights for agency leaders and agency teams, including

•	how remote working is only amplifying the positive and the negative aspects of your agency culture that were already present
•	how to fix the issues
•	how to make your remote brainstorming meetings more effective 
•	why agencies need to strike a balance between being overly protective and having respectful friction 
•	and how agencies celebrate individualism 

I'd highly recommend that you follow Gustavo on LinkedIn, go to his website where you can download some of his free resources, as well as investing in his book, ‘Remote, Not Distant’.

Book Remote Not Distant: https://www.amazon.com/Remote-Not-Distant-Company-Workplace-ebook/dp/B09VXX4FN3
Blog: https://gustavorazzetti.substack.com
Agency Website: https://www.fearlessculture.design
Personal Website: https://gustavorazzetti.com/</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 108. Are you struggling to manage a remote agency team? If so, you're going to get a lot of value from my conversation with Gustavo Razzetti, CEO of Fearless Culture and author of ‘Remote, Not Distant’. 
He shared some very thought-provoking insights for agency leaders and agency teams, including

•	how remote working is only amplifying the positive and the negative aspects of your agency culture that were already present
•	how to fix the issues
•	how to make your remote brainstorming meetings more effective 
•	why agencies need to strike a balance between being overly protective and having respectful friction 
•	and how agencies celebrate individualism 

I'd highly recommend that you follow Gustavo on LinkedIn, go to his website where you can download some of his free resources, as well as investing in his book, ‘Remote, Not Distant’.

Book Remote Not Distant: https://www.amazon.com/Remote-Not-Distant-Company-Workplace-ebook/dp/B09VXX4FN3
Blog: https://gustavorazzetti.substack.com
Agency Website: https://www.fearlessculture.design
Personal Website: https://gustavorazzetti.com/</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>remote working, creative agency, HR, digital nomad</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to price to maximise profit, with Alfie Wenegieme</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/08j4lqk8-how-to-price-to-maximise-profit-with-alfie-wenegieme</link>
      <itunes:title>How to price to maximise profit, with Alfie Wenegieme</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>107</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">41p7rxz0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 107. If you’ve ever wondered if you’re pricing your services in the right way, this one is for you. 

Alfie Wenegieme, Managing Partner at Cactus,  joins me and he shares: 
1. Why agencies don’t lose pitches on price alone 
2. How agencies price to ensure a healthy profit margin 
3. Typical mistakes agencies make when pricing 
4. And some useful tips for account managers and project managers when scoping projects 

If you’re listening to this episode in February 2024, I’m opening enrolments again for my Account Accelerator programme that begins on March 5th.  It’s a 12 month training and coaching programme that’s specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in account management which means:

• Having an effective account management and account growth process - that is understood and followed consistently by all your account managers 

• Having an end-to-end client growth framework (from onboarding to delivery) - so everyone knows what to do when, and you have all the templates and resources to help you implement 

• Having a Proactive Client Retention Strategy - so you increase the lifetime value of your ideal clients (and don’t have to keep feeding your sales pipeline) 

If you’d like to have a quick call with me to see if this might be a good fit for you or a member of your team, you can find all the details on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 107. If you’ve ever wondered if you’re pricing your services in the right way, this one is for you.&nbsp;<br><br>Alfie Wenegieme, Managing Partner at Cactus,&nbsp; joins me and he shares:&nbsp;<br>1. Why agencies don’t lose pitches on price alone&nbsp;<br>2. How agencies price to ensure a healthy profit margin&nbsp;<br>3. Typical mistakes agencies make when pricing&nbsp;<br>4. And some useful tips for account managers and project managers when scoping projects&nbsp;<br><br>If you’re listening to this episode in February 2024, I’m opening enrolments again for my Account Accelerator programme that begins on March 5th.&nbsp; It’s a 12 month training and coaching programme that’s specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in account management which means:<br><br>• Having an effective account management and account growth process - that is understood and followed consistently by all your account managers&nbsp;<br><br>• Having an end-to-end client growth framework (from onboarding to delivery) - so everyone knows what to do when, and you have all the templates and resources to help you implement&nbsp;<br><br>• Having a Proactive Client Retention Strategy - so you increase the lifetime value of your ideal clients (and don’t have to keep feeding your sales pipeline)&nbsp;<br><br>If you’d like to have a quick call with me to see if this might be a good fit for you or a member of your team, you can find all the details on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Fri, 02 Feb 2024 15:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/wqyzzz4w.mp3" length="57589989" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/6da04be0-c1de-11ee-a962-a34c073deb85/6da04d70-c1de-11ee-9d84-e79fb4a5a9bc.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2879</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 107. If you’ve ever wondered if you’re pricing your services in the right way, this one is for you. 

Alfie Wenegieme, Managing Partner at Cactus,  joins me and he shares: 
1. Why agencies don’t lose pitches on price alone 
2. How agencies price to ensure a healthy profit margin 
3. Typical mistakes agencies make when pricing 
4. And some useful tips for account managers and project managers when scoping projects 

If you’re listening to this episode in February 2024, I’m opening enrolments again for my Account Accelerator programme that begins on March 5th.  It’s a 12 month training and coaching programme that’s specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in account management which means:

• Having an effective account management and account growth process - that is understood and followed consistently by all your account managers 

• Having an end-to-end client growth framework (from onboarding to delivery) - so everyone knows what to do when, and you have all the templates and resources to help you implement 

• Having a Proactive Client Retention Strategy - so you increase the lifetime value of your ideal clients (and don’t have to keep feeding your sales pipeline) 

If you’d like to have a quick call with me to see if this might be a good fit for you or a member of your team, you can find all the details on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 107. If you’ve ever wondered if you’re pricing your services in the right way, this one is for you. 

Alfie Wenegieme, Managing Partner at Cactus,  joins me and he shares: 
1. Why agencies don’t lose pitches on price alone 
2. How agencies price to ensure a healthy profit margin 
3. Typical mistakes agencies make when pricing 
4. And some useful tips for account managers and project managers when scoping projects 

If you’re listening to this episode in February 2024, I’m opening enrolments again for my Account Accelerator programme that begins on March 5th.  It’s a 12 month training and coaching programme that’s specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in account management which means:

• Having an effective account management and account growth process - that is understood and followed consistently by all your account managers 

• Having an end-to-end client growth framework (from onboarding to delivery) - so everyone knows what to do when, and you have all the templates and resources to help you implement 

• Having a Proactive Client Retention Strategy - so you increase the lifetime value of your ideal clients (and don’t have to keep feeding your sales pipeline) 

If you’d like to have a quick call with me to see if this might be a good fit for you or a member of your team, you can find all the details on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Agency strategy and predicting the future with AI, with Nikolas Pearmine</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/mn4jky2n-agency-strategy-and-predicting-the-future-with-ai-with-nikolas-pearmine</link>
      <itunes:title>Agency strategy and predicting the future with AI, with Nikolas Pearmine</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>106</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">x06zwn50</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 106. If you’d like to know how one agency has been using AI since 2011 to predict the future for their clients, this chat will be interesting for you. It will also be insightful if you’re curious how the agency works with their global CPG and FMCG brands.

‌Nik Pearmine, Chief Strategy Officer at Black Swan Data,  and I cover a range of topics including:
- his view on what it takes to be successful in account management
- what he thinks is in store for the future 
- and whether we should be worried about AI replacing our jobs.

You can get in contact with Nik via LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikolas-pearmine-138bb612/

If you’re listening to this at the beginning of 2024 and are based in the US, I wanted to let you know I’ll be running a value-packed seminar with David C Baker and Jack Skeels on 12th and 13th March in Atlanta. ‌The event is all about the account management and project management roles. I’ll be talking about the essentials of account management, how to grow an account and how account managers work with project managers. ‌David is extremely well known in the agency industry as he’s an agency advisor, the author of “The Business of Expertise” and “Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors” as well as co-hosting the 2Bobs podcast with Blair Enns. ‌You can find all the details and book your tickets at David’s website:  https://www.punctuation.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 106. If you’d like to know how one agency has been using AI since 2011 to predict the future for their clients, this chat will be interesting for you. It will also be insightful if you’re curious how the agency works with their global CPG and FMCG brands.<br><br>‌Nik Pearmine, Chief Strategy Officer at Black Swan Data,&nbsp; and I cover a range of topics including:<br>- his view on what it takes to be successful in account management<br>- what he thinks is in store for the future&nbsp;<br>- and whether we should be worried about AI replacing our jobs.<br><br>You can get in contact with Nik via LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikolas-pearmine-138bb612/<br><br>If you’re listening to this at the beginning of 2024 and are based in the US, I wanted to let you know I’ll be running a value-packed seminar with David C Baker and Jack Skeels on 12th and 13th March in Atlanta. ‌The event is all about the account management and project management roles. I’ll be talking about the essentials of account management, how to grow an account and how account managers work with project managers. ‌David is extremely well known in the agency industry as he’s an agency advisor, the author of “The Business of Expertise” and “Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors” as well as co-hosting the 2Bobs podcast with Blair Enns. ‌You can find all the details and book your tickets at David’s website:&nbsp; https://www.punctuation.com</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 23 Jan 2024 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/86l2pr48.mp3" length="49671753" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/9f21c130-b54d-11ee-9208-0b88209f445b/9f21c2c0-b54d-11ee-aa43-43cc295fa690.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2483</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 106. If you’d like to know how one agency has been using AI since 2011 to predict the future for their clients, this chat will be interesting for you. It will also be insightful if you’re curious how the agency works with their global CPG and FMCG brands.

‌Nik Pearmine, Chief Strategy Officer at Black Swan Data,  and I cover a range of topics including:
- his view on what it takes to be successful in account management
- what he thinks is in store for the future 
- and whether we should be worried about AI replacing our jobs.

You can get in contact with Nik via LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikolas-pearmine-138bb612/

If you’re listening to this at the beginning of 2024 and are based in the US, I wanted to let you know I’ll be running a value-packed seminar with David C Baker and Jack Skeels on 12th and 13th March in Atlanta. ‌The event is all about the account management and project management roles. I’ll be talking about the essentials of account management, how to grow an account and how account managers work with project managers. ‌David is extremely well known in the agency industry as he’s an agency advisor, the author of “The Business of Expertise” and “Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors” as well as co-hosting the 2Bobs podcast with Blair Enns. ‌You can find all the details and book your tickets at David’s website:  https://www.punctuation.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 106. If you’d like to know how one agency has been using AI since 2011 to predict the future for their clients, this chat will be interesting for you. It will also be insightful if you’re curious how the agency works with their global CPG and FMCG brands.

‌Nik Pearmine, Chief Strategy Officer at Black Swan Data,  and I cover a range of topics including:
- his view on what it takes to be successful in account management
- what he thinks is in store for the future 
- and whether we should be worried about AI replacing our jobs.

You can get in contact with Nik via LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikolas-pearmine-138bb612/

If you’re listening to this at the beginning of 2024 and are based in the US, I wanted to let you know I’ll be running a value-packed seminar with David C Baker and Jack Skeels on 12th and 13th March in Atlanta. ‌The event is all about the account management and project management roles. I’ll be talking about the essentials of account management, how to grow an account and how account managers work with project managers. ‌David is extremely well known in the agency industry as he’s an agency advisor, the author of “The Business of Expertise” and “Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors” as well as co-hosting the 2Bobs podcast with Blair Enns. ‌You can find all the details and book your tickets at David’s website:  https://www.punctuation.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to Sell, with Marcus Cauchi and Benjamin Dennehy</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/p8mxp24n-how-to-sell-with-marcus-cauchi-and-benjamin-dennehy</link>
      <itunes:title>How to Sell, with Marcus Cauchi and Benjamin Dennehy</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>105</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">70v2qxm0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 105, I have invited two of my most popular podcast guests back for a second time, sales trainer legends; Marcus Cauchi and Benjamin Dennehey.

‌Both have been sales trainers for years and have worked with many agencies and tech companies. They shared some golden nuggets to help you with selling your agency’s services.

‌I had to throw away the list of questions I’d prepared and let the conversation flow naturally because I wanted to capture as much of their collective sales wisdom and tips as possible. I hope you’ll enjoy the longer length of this episode and ultimately come away with some practical things you can implement in your sales process.

‌‌· An understanding of the importance of having the ability to ask superb questions during the sales conversation with a prospect.
· In our chat, Marcus and Benjamin role play a conversation and hopefully you can take the principles away and model some of the language they’re using in your next sales conversation with a prospect.

You can reach Marcus Cauchi on LinkedIn, via marcus@laughs-last.com,  visit his website: https://www.laughs-last.com and The Inquisitor podcast.
You can reach Benjamin at https://www.uksmosthatedsalestrainer.com/

If you’d like to chat to me about selling skills for agency account managers to help you with your your existing client accounts then you can go to my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and find out more about how I help build an entrepreneurial mindset in account management through my training programmes.‌</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 105, I have invited two of my most popular podcast guests back for a second time, sales trainer legends; Marcus Cauchi and Benjamin Dennehey.<br><br>‌Both have been sales trainers for years and have worked with many agencies and tech companies. They shared some golden nuggets to help you with selling your agency’s services.<br><br>‌I had to throw away the list of questions I’d prepared and let the conversation flow naturally because I wanted to capture as much of their collective sales wisdom and tips as possible. I hope you’ll enjoy the longer length of this episode and ultimately come away with some practical things you can implement in your sales process.<br><br>‌‌· An understanding of the importance of having the ability to ask superb questions during the sales conversation with a prospect.<br>· In our chat, Marcus and Benjamin role play a conversation and hopefully you can take the principles away and model some of the language they’re using in your next sales conversation with a prospect.<br><br>You can reach Marcus Cauchi on LinkedIn, via marcus@laughs-last.com,&nbsp; visit his website: https://www.laughs-last.com and The Inquisitor podcast.<br>You can reach Benjamin at https://www.uksmosthatedsalestrainer.com/<br><br>If you’d like to chat to me about selling skills for agency account managers to help you with your your existing client accounts then you can go to my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and find out more about how I help build an entrepreneurial mindset in account management through my training programmes.‌</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 09 Jan 2024 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8l435rk8.mp3" length="79831165" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/5d40da10-aafa-11ee-b4e4-47064e685b19/5d40e110-aafa-11ee-a87a-2f996d078c6d.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>3991</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 105, I have invited two of my most popular podcast guests back for a second time, sales trainer legends; Marcus Cauchi and Benjamin Dennehey.

‌Both have been sales trainers for years and have worked with many agencies and tech companies. They shared some golden nuggets to help you with selling your agency’s services.

‌I had to throw away the list of questions I’d prepared and let the conversation flow naturally because I wanted to capture as much of their collective sales wisdom and tips as possible. I hope you’ll enjoy the longer length of this episode and ultimately come away with some practical things you can implement in your sales process.

‌‌· An understanding of the importance of having the ability to ask superb questions during the sales conversation with a prospect.
· In our chat, Marcus and Benjamin role play a conversation and hopefully you can take the principles away and model some of the language they’re using in your next sales conversation with a prospect.

You can reach Marcus Cauchi on LinkedIn, via marcus@laughs-last.com,  visit his website: https://www.laughs-last.com and The Inquisitor podcast.
You can reach Benjamin at https://www.uksmosthatedsalestrainer.com/

If you’d like to chat to me about selling skills for agency account managers to help you with your your existing client accounts then you can go to my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and find out more about how I help build an entrepreneurial mindset in account management through my training programmes.‌</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 105, I have invited two of my most popular podcast guests back for a second time, sales trainer legends; Marcus Cauchi and Benjamin Dennehey.

‌Both have been sales trainers for years and have worked with many agencies and tech companies. They shared some golden nuggets to help you with selling your agency’s services.

‌I had to throw away the list of questions I’d prepared and let the conversation flow naturally because I wanted to capture as much of their collective sales wisdom and tips as possible. I hope you’ll enjoy the longer length of this episode and ultimately come away with some practical things you can implement in your sales process.

‌‌· An understanding of the importance of having the ability to ask superb questions during the sales conversation with a prospect.
· In our chat, Marcus and Benjamin role play a conversation and hopefully you can take the principles away and model some of the language they’re using in your next sales conversation with a prospect.

You can reach Marcus Cauchi on LinkedIn, via marcus@laughs-last.com,  visit his website: https://www.laughs-last.com and The Inquisitor podcast.
You can reach Benjamin at https://www.uksmosthatedsalestrainer.com/

If you’d like to chat to me about selling skills for agency account managers to help you with your your existing client accounts then you can go to my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and find out more about how I help build an entrepreneurial mindset in account management through my training programmes.‌</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Agency project management and service delivery, with Joanne Reid</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/x8vzyr68-agency-project-management-and-service-delivery-with-joanne-reid</link>
      <itunes:title>Agency project management and service delivery, with Joanne Reid</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>104</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">70y64lz1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 104. In this episode, I talk all things agency project management with Joanne Reid, Managing Partner for delivery at Cactus. 

We cover:
- the challenges agencies face with project management
- how Joanne assesses how well an agency's project management is working
- how project management differs from account management and why she recommends agencies to have both roles
- the target level of annual gross profit an agency should reach before investing in both roles
- her recommendations for project management tools and how to evaluate whether you have the right one for you
- what skills to look for when hiring a project manager 
- and Jo's thoughts on future trends she's seeing in project management. 

Make sure you follow her on LinkedIn because she shares some really useful tips for project managers and also agency owners when it comes agency service delivery: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joanne-reid-6220744b/

If you're an agency owner or you're heading up the agency's account management team and have realised your existing clients just aren't growing, it may be time to provide the right support for your account management team to do it. I'm currently enrolling for my Account Accelerator programme that starts on 11th January 2024. It's a twelve month training and coaching programme for account managers who are responsible for account retention and growth. It's designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset and you'll come away with a proven account management and growth process, an end to end client growth framework, and a proactive client retention strategy for the agency. We already have some really self motivated senior account managers, directors and client services directors joining the programme who are often also responsible for leading a team in the agency. 

You can find the details of the Account Accelerator programme on my website:
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 104. In this episode, I talk all things agency project management with Joanne Reid, Managing Partner for delivery at Cactus.&nbsp;<br><br>We cover:<br>- the challenges agencies face with project management<br>- how Joanne assesses how well an agency's project management is working<br>- how project management differs from account management and why she recommends agencies to have both roles<br>- the target level of annual gross profit an agency should reach before investing in both roles<br>- her recommendations for project management tools and how to evaluate whether you have the right one for you<br>- what skills to look for when hiring a project manager&nbsp;<br>- and Jo's thoughts on future trends she's seeing in project management.&nbsp;<br><br>Make sure you follow her on LinkedIn because she shares some really useful tips for project managers and also agency owners when it comes agency service delivery: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joanne-reid-6220744b/<br><br>If you're an agency owner or you're heading up the agency's account management team and have realised your existing clients just aren't growing, it may be time to provide the right support for your account management team to do it. I'm currently enrolling for my Account Accelerator programme that starts on 11th January 2024. It's a twelve month training and coaching programme for account managers who are responsible for account retention and growth. It's designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset and you'll come away with a proven account management and growth process, an end to end client growth framework, and a proactive client retention strategy for the agency. We already have some really self motivated senior account managers, directors and client services directors joining the programme who are often also responsible for leading a team in the agency.&nbsp;<br><br>You can find the details of the Account Accelerator programme on my website:<br>https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2023 09:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/w0v3yvkw.mp3" length="54359687" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/0ce38d20-9a65-11ee-83ea-2760864c4683/0ce38e90-9a65-11ee-98d2-bb05c14fd1a7.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2717</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 104. In this episode, I talk all things agency project management with Joanne Reid, Managing Partner for delivery at Cactus. 

We cover:
- the challenges agencies face with project management
- how Joanne assesses how well an agency's project management is working
- how project management differs from account management and why she recommends agencies to have both roles
- the target level of annual gross profit an agency should reach before investing in both roles
- her recommendations for project management tools and how to evaluate whether you have the right one for you
- what skills to look for when hiring a project manager 
- and Jo's thoughts on future trends she's seeing in project management. 

Make sure you follow her on LinkedIn because she shares some really useful tips for project managers and also agency owners when it comes agency service delivery: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joanne-reid-6220744b/

If you're an agency owner or you're heading up the agency's account management team and have realised your existing clients just aren't growing, it may be time to provide the right support for your account management team to do it. I'm currently enrolling for my Account Accelerator programme that starts on 11th January 2024. It's a twelve month training and coaching programme for account managers who are responsible for account retention and growth. It's designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset and you'll come away with a proven account management and growth process, an end to end client growth framework, and a proactive client retention strategy for the agency. We already have some really self motivated senior account managers, directors and client services directors joining the programme who are often also responsible for leading a team in the agency. 

You can find the details of the Account Accelerator programme on my website:
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 104. In this episode, I talk all things agency project management with Joanne Reid, Managing Partner for delivery at Cactus. 

We cover:
- the challenges agencies face with project management
- how Joanne assesses how well an agency's project management is working
- how project management differs from account management and why she recommends agencies to have both roles
- the target level of annual gross profit an agency should reach before investing in both roles
- her recommendations for project management tools and how to evaluate whether you have the right one for you
- what skills to look for when hiring a project manager 
- and Jo's thoughts on future trends she's seeing in project management. 

Make sure you follow her on LinkedIn because she shares some really useful tips for project managers and also agency owners when it comes agency service delivery: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joanne-reid-6220744b/

If you're an agency owner or you're heading up the agency's account management team and have realised your existing clients just aren't growing, it may be time to provide the right support for your account management team to do it. I'm currently enrolling for my Account Accelerator programme that starts on 11th January 2024. It's a twelve month training and coaching programme for account managers who are responsible for account retention and growth. It's designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset and you'll come away with a proven account management and growth process, an end to end client growth framework, and a proactive client retention strategy for the agency. We already have some really self motivated senior account managers, directors and client services directors joining the programme who are often also responsible for leading a team in the agency. 

You can find the details of the Account Accelerator programme on my website:
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to escape the daily grind of agency ownership, with Karl Sakas</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/28xkxlpn-how-to-escape-the-daily-grind-of-agency-ownership-with-karl-sakas</link>
      <itunes:title>How to escape the daily grind of agency ownership, with Karl Sakas</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>103</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">60m7jy20</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 103. This episode will be particularly relevant to agency owners who want to become less hands-on in their agency and just step away from the day to day operations. 

I'm chatting to Karl Sakas, an agency growth consultant in the US and author of several books, the latest of which is called Work Less and Earn More a Practical Guide for Agency Owners to help them escape the daily grind of agency ownership. Karl has spent years consulting with agency owners and leaders and, I think because he originally had an operations background, he seems to have a wonderful way of explaining useful concepts and ideas using models and frameworks which are really easy to follow. 

Karl shares some practical tips, his views on agency account management and why separating the role from project management makes sense.

You can reach Karl, and make use of lots of his great downloadable resources at https://sakasandcompany.com/free-resources-for-agencies/
Book link:  http://worklessearnmorebook.com/

If you'd like support with upskilling your account managers, check out my Account Accelerator™ programme.  It's a 12 month training and coaching programme that's specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your account management team. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 103. This episode will be particularly relevant to agency owners who want to become less hands-on in their agency and just step away from the day to day operations.&nbsp;<br><br>I'm chatting to Karl Sakas, an agency growth consultant in the US and author of several books, the latest of which is called Work Less and Earn More a Practical Guide for Agency Owners to help them escape the daily grind of agency ownership. Karl has spent years consulting with agency owners and leaders and, I think because he originally had an operations background, he seems to have a wonderful way of explaining useful concepts and ideas using models and frameworks which are really easy to follow.&nbsp;<br><br>Karl shares some practical tips, his views on agency account management and why separating the role from project management makes sense.<br><br>You can reach Karl, and make use of lots of his great downloadable resources at https://sakasandcompany.com/free-resources-for-agencies/<br>Book link:&nbsp; http://worklessearnmorebook.com/<br><br>If you'd like support with upskilling your account managers, check out my Account Accelerator™ programme.&nbsp; It's a 12 month training and coaching programme that's specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your account management team. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator<br><br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 05 Dec 2023 16:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8rjznnj8.mp3" length="50995638" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/a8de6680-938d-11ee-9881-f31d4e589754/a8de6c80-938d-11ee-927b-33585b2d1fd1.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2549</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 103. This episode will be particularly relevant to agency owners who want to become less hands-on in their agency and just step away from the day to day operations. 

I'm chatting to Karl Sakas, an agency growth consultant in the US and author of several books, the latest of which is called Work Less and Earn More a Practical Guide for Agency Owners to help them escape the daily grind of agency ownership. Karl has spent years consulting with agency owners and leaders and, I think because he originally had an operations background, he seems to have a wonderful way of explaining useful concepts and ideas using models and frameworks which are really easy to follow. 

Karl shares some practical tips, his views on agency account management and why separating the role from project management makes sense.

You can reach Karl, and make use of lots of his great downloadable resources at https://sakasandcompany.com/free-resources-for-agencies/
Book link:  http://worklessearnmorebook.com/

If you'd like support with upskilling your account managers, check out my Account Accelerator™ programme.  It's a 12 month training and coaching programme that's specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your account management team. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 103. This episode will be particularly relevant to agency owners who want to become less hands-on in their agency and just step away from the day to day operations. 

I'm chatting to Karl Sakas, an agency growth consultant in the US and author of several books, the latest of which is called Work Less and Earn More a Practical Guide for Agency Owners to help them escape the daily grind of agency ownership. Karl has spent years consulting with agency owners and leaders and, I think because he originally had an operations background, he seems to have a wonderful way of explaining useful concepts and ideas using models and frameworks which are really easy to follow. 

Karl shares some practical tips, his views on agency account management and why separating the role from project management makes sense.

You can reach Karl, and make use of lots of his great downloadable resources at https://sakasandcompany.com/free-resources-for-agencies/
Book link:  http://worklessearnmorebook.com/

If you'd like support with upskilling your account managers, check out my Account Accelerator™ programme.  It's a 12 month training and coaching programme that's specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your account management team. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Bonus episode 5 of 5:  How to get account managers adding value to your agency from Day 1 (and reduce churn)</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/qn02k2mn-bonus-episode-5-of-5-how-to-get-account-managers-adding-value-to-your-agency-from-day-1-and-reduce-churn</link>
      <itunes:title>Bonus episode 5 of 5:  How to get account managers adding value to your agency from Day 1 (and reduce churn)</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>102</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">p1kr9rk0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to the final episode in my mini series of five bonus podcast episodes created to show you how to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers.

In this episode, I share the key things you need to do to get your account managers adding value from day one and reduce churn. And this comes back to many of the things we've discussed already in this podcast series. I speak to so many agency owners who feel frustrated by high staff turnover. 

Ultimately, reducing churn and retaining your best talent comes down to one thing -  investing in your account managers, and particularly in helping them develop the entrepreneurial skills we've covered in this podcast series. If you haven't had the chance to listen to the previous four episodes, do go back and have a listen. Do let me know what you found particularly useful, along with what you'd like to know more about. You can drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com. 

If you'd like support with upskilling your account managers, check out my Account Accelerator™ programme.  It's a 12 month training and coaching programme that's specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your account management team. It covers all the areas in this special podcast series and much more.  https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to the final episode in my mini series of five bonus podcast episodes created to show you how to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers.<br><br>In this episode, I share the key things you need to do to get your account managers adding value from day one and reduce churn. And this comes back to many of the things we've discussed already in this podcast series. I speak to so many agency owners who feel frustrated by high staff turnover.&nbsp;<br><br>Ultimately, reducing churn and retaining your best talent comes down to one thing - investing in your account managers, and particularly in helping them develop the entrepreneurial skills we've covered in this podcast series. If you haven't had the chance to listen to the previous four episodes, do go back and have a listen. Do let me know what you found particularly useful, along with what you'd like to know more about. You can drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com.&nbsp;<br><br>If you'd like support with upskilling your account managers, check out my Account Accelerator™ programme.&nbsp; It's a 12 month training and coaching programme that's specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your account management team. It covers all the areas in this special podcast series and much more.&nbsp; https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2023 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8qyk7np8.mp3" length="6781304" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/fd5ecb20-8ed1-11ee-b5dc-1520c055946d/fd5ecca0-8ed1-11ee-9906-df40da29d7b2.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>338</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to the final episode in my mini series of five bonus podcast episodes created to show you how to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers.

In this episode, I share the key things you need to do to get your account managers adding value from day one and reduce churn. And this comes back to many of the things we've discussed already in this podcast series. I speak to so many agency owners who feel frustrated by high staff turnover. 

Ultimately, reducing churn and retaining your best talent comes down to one thing -  investing in your account managers, and particularly in helping them develop the entrepreneurial skills we've covered in this podcast series. If you haven't had the chance to listen to the previous four episodes, do go back and have a listen. Do let me know what you found particularly useful, along with what you'd like to know more about. You can drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com. 

If you'd like support with upskilling your account managers, check out my Account Accelerator™ programme.  It's a 12 month training and coaching programme that's specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your account management team. It covers all the areas in this special podcast series and much more.  https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to the final episode in my mini series of five bonus podcast episodes created to show you how to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers.

In this episode, I share the key things you need to do to get your account managers adding value from day one and reduce churn. And this comes back to many of the things we've discussed already in this podcast series. I speak to so many agency owners who feel frustrated by high staff turnover. 

Ultimately, reducing churn and retaining your best talent comes down to one thing -  investing in your account managers, and particularly in helping them develop the entrepreneurial skills we've covered in this podcast series. If you haven't had the chance to listen to the previous four episodes, do go back and have a listen. Do let me know what you found particularly useful, along with what you'd like to know more about. You can drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com. 

If you'd like support with upskilling your account managers, check out my Account Accelerator™ programme.  It's a 12 month training and coaching programme that's specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your account management team. It covers all the areas in this special podcast series and much more.  https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Bonus episode 4 of 5: How to get your account managers to ask better questions (and how it can increase client lifetime value)</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/m84jzjm8-bonus-episode-4-of-5-how-to-get-your-account-managers-to-ask-better-questions-and-how-it-can-increase-client-lifetime-value</link>
      <itunes:title>Bonus episode 4 of 5: How to get your account managers to ask better questions (and how it can increase client lifetime value)</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>101</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">x16zxz61</guid>
      <description>Welcome to number 4 in my mini series of five bonus podcast episodes created to show you how to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers.

Why do so many account managers miss out on new account growth opportunities in client meetings? Often it's because they haven't asked the right questions. Or maybe they've asked some of the right questions but didn't have the confidence to probe deeper in their questioning.

In this short episode, I share why investing the time to help your account managers ask better questions could make a big difference to your bottom line, particularly when it comes to increasing client lifetime value.

If you'd like support with upskilling your account managers, check out my Account Accelerator™ programme.  It's a 12 month training and coaching programme that's specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your account management team. It covers all the areas in this special podcast series and much more. So if you'd like to have a conversation about how I could help your account managers, then email me at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com to find out more. 

https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to number 4 in my mini series of five bonus podcast episodes created to show you how to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers.<br><br>Why do so many account managers miss out on new account growth opportunities in client meetings? Often it's because they haven't asked the right questions. Or maybe they've asked some of the right questions but didn't have the confidence to probe deeper in their questioning.<br><br>In this short episode, I share why investing the time to help your account managers ask better questions could make a big difference to your bottom line, particularly when it comes to increasing client lifetime value.<br><br>If you'd like support with upskilling your account managers, check out my Account Accelerator™ programme.&nbsp; It's a 12 month training and coaching programme that's specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your account management team. It covers all the areas in this special podcast series and much more. So if you'd like to have a conversation about how I could help your account managers, then email me at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com to find out more.&nbsp;<br><br>https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2023 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/w0vzrmlw.mp3" length="6479851" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/f0dc1d80-8ed0-11ee-9826-9b1c3d849b9f/f0dc1ef0-8ed0-11ee-af9f-5735b10dccc5.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>323</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to number 4 in my mini series of five bonus podcast episodes created to show you how to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers.

Why do so many account managers miss out on new account growth opportunities in client meetings? Often it's because they haven't asked the right questions. Or maybe they've asked some of the right questions but didn't have the confidence to probe deeper in their questioning.

In this short episode, I share why investing the time to help your account managers ask better questions could make a big difference to your bottom line, particularly when it comes to increasing client lifetime value.

If you'd like support with upskilling your account managers, check out my Account Accelerator™ programme.  It's a 12 month training and coaching programme that's specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your account management team. It covers all the areas in this special podcast series and much more. So if you'd like to have a conversation about how I could help your account managers, then email me at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com to find out more. 

https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to number 4 in my mini series of five bonus podcast episodes created to show you how to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers.

Why do so many account managers miss out on new account growth opportunities in client meetings? Often it's because they haven't asked the right questions. Or maybe they've asked some of the right questions but didn't have the confidence to probe deeper in their questioning.

In this short episode, I share why investing the time to help your account managers ask better questions could make a big difference to your bottom line, particularly when it comes to increasing client lifetime value.

If you'd like support with upskilling your account managers, check out my Account Accelerator™ programme.  It's a 12 month training and coaching programme that's specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your account management team. It covers all the areas in this special podcast series and much more. So if you'd like to have a conversation about how I could help your account managers, then email me at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com to find out more. 

https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Bonus episode 3 of 5: Do your account managers know how to run an effective client meeting? If not it could be hurting your agency</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/1n36zwv8-bonus-episode-3-of-5</link>
      <itunes:title>Bonus episode 3 of 5: Do your account managers know how to run an effective client meeting? If not it could be hurting your agency</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>100</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">m1j76mr0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to number 3 in my mini series of five bonus podcast episodes created to show you how to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers.

Agency owners often tell me they wish their account managers were more confident in client meetings, including being confident enough to suggest new ideas for new projects. But, as with everything else, you can't expect your account managers to just know how to run an effective client meeting. 

In this episode, I share seven things that you'll want to make decisions about in order to approach each client meeting in the right way. 

If you'd like support with upskilling your account managers, check out my Account Accelerator™ programme.  It's a 12 month training and coaching programme that's specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your account management team. It covers all the areas in this special podcast series and much more. So if you'd like to have a conversation about how I could help your account managers, then email me at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com to find out more. 

https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to number 3 in my mini series of five bonus podcast episodes created to show you how to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers.<br><br>Agency owners often tell me they wish their account managers were more confident in client meetings, including being confident enough to suggest new ideas for new projects. But, as with everything else, you can't expect your account managers to just know how to run an effective client meeting.&nbsp;<br><br>In this episode, I share seven things that you'll want to make decisions about in order to approach each client meeting in the right way.&nbsp;<br><br>If you'd like support with upskilling your account managers, check out my Account Accelerator™ programme.&nbsp; It's a 12 month training and coaching programme that's specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your account management team. It covers all the areas in this special podcast series and much more. So if you'd like to have a conversation about how I could help your account managers, then email me at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com to find out more.&nbsp;<br><br>https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2023 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/89501jq8.mp3" length="10192373" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/ee5a66a0-8d35-11ee-97f8-b1685d6b86b1/ee5a6810-8d35-11ee-bdd8-83175129f5c5.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>509</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to number 3 in my mini series of five bonus podcast episodes created to show you how to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers.

Agency owners often tell me they wish their account managers were more confident in client meetings, including being confident enough to suggest new ideas for new projects. But, as with everything else, you can't expect your account managers to just know how to run an effective client meeting. 

In this episode, I share seven things that you'll want to make decisions about in order to approach each client meeting in the right way. 

If you'd like support with upskilling your account managers, check out my Account Accelerator™ programme.  It's a 12 month training and coaching programme that's specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your account management team. It covers all the areas in this special podcast series and much more. So if you'd like to have a conversation about how I could help your account managers, then email me at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com to find out more. 

https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to number 3 in my mini series of five bonus podcast episodes created to show you how to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers.

Agency owners often tell me they wish their account managers were more confident in client meetings, including being confident enough to suggest new ideas for new projects. But, as with everything else, you can't expect your account managers to just know how to run an effective client meeting. 

In this episode, I share seven things that you'll want to make decisions about in order to approach each client meeting in the right way. 

If you'd like support with upskilling your account managers, check out my Account Accelerator™ programme.  It's a 12 month training and coaching programme that's specifically designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your account management team. It covers all the areas in this special podcast series and much more. So if you'd like to have a conversation about how I could help your account managers, then email me at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com to find out more. 

https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>client meetings, creative agency, account management</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Bonus episode 2 of 5: From 'order taker' to trusted advisor - raising the value of your account managers (and why it's vital)</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/1836zxpn-bonus-episode-2-of-5-from-order-taker-to-trusted-advisor-raising-the-value-of-your-account-managers-and-why-it-s-vital</link>
      <itunes:title>Bonus episode 2 of 5: From 'order taker' to trusted advisor - raising the value of your account managers (and why it's vital)</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>99</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">m0j769l1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to number 2 in my mini series of five bonus podcast episodes created to show you how to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers. 

In this episode we're looking at how to raise the value of account managers by taking them from an 'order-taker' to a trusted advisor. You can't just expect clients to treat your account managers as trusted advisors, because trust has to be earned. In this episode, I cover:
- creating a culture where clients trust account managers from the off
- creating the right conditions for the relationship to thrive
- having the right internal processes in place to support your managers with account growth

In bonus episode 3, I'll be covering how your account managers can run effective client meetings.

Everything I'm sharing in this podcast series is covered in depth in my Account Accelerator programme and ultimately it's designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in account management. You can read more about the programme here:
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator

Or if you'd like to have a conversation about how I could potentially help your account managers, please email me jenny@accountmanagementskills.com. Let's have a chat and see if this might be suitable for you or members of your team.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to number 2 in my mini series of five bonus podcast episodes created to show you how to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers.&nbsp;<br><br>In this episode we're looking at how to raise the value of account managers by taking them from an 'order-taker' to a trusted advisor. You can't just expect clients to treat your account managers as trusted advisors, because trust has to be earned. In this episode, I cover:<br>- creating a culture where clients trust account managers from the off<br>- creating the right conditions for the relationship to thrive<br>- having the right internal processes in place to support your managers with account growth<br><br>In bonus episode 3, I'll be covering how your account managers can run effective client meetings.<br><br>Everything I'm sharing in this podcast series is covered in depth in my Account Accelerator programme and ultimately it's designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in account management. You can read more about the programme here:<br>https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator<br><br>Or if you'd like to have a conversation about how I could potentially help your account managers, please email me jenny@accountmanagementskills.com. Let's have a chat and see if this might be suitable for you or members of your team.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2023 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/w9501njw.mp3" length="11404977" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/59c35800-8ad6-11ee-a245-a1849ae0c7b0/59c35a90-8ad6-11ee-87b6-0756dc69a65c.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>570</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to number 2 in my mini series of five bonus podcast episodes created to show you how to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers. 

In this episode we're looking at how to raise the value of account managers by taking them from an 'order-taker' to a trusted advisor. You can't just expect clients to treat your account managers as trusted advisors, because trust has to be earned. In this episode, I cover:
- creating a culture where clients trust account managers from the off
- creating the right conditions for the relationship to thrive
- having the right internal processes in place to support your managers with account growth

In bonus episode 3, I'll be covering how your account managers can run effective client meetings.

Everything I'm sharing in this podcast series is covered in depth in my Account Accelerator programme and ultimately it's designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in account management. You can read more about the programme here:
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator

Or if you'd like to have a conversation about how I could potentially help your account managers, please email me jenny@accountmanagementskills.com. Let's have a chat and see if this might be suitable for you or members of your team.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to number 2 in my mini series of five bonus podcast episodes created to show you how to build an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers. 

In this episode we're looking at how to raise the value of account managers by taking them from an 'order-taker' to a trusted advisor. You can't just expect clients to treat your account managers as trusted advisors, because trust has to be earned. In this episode, I cover:
- creating a culture where clients trust account managers from the off
- creating the right conditions for the relationship to thrive
- having the right internal processes in place to support your managers with account growth

In bonus episode 3, I'll be covering how your account managers can run effective client meetings.

Everything I'm sharing in this podcast series is covered in depth in my Account Accelerator programme and ultimately it's designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in account management. You can read more about the programme here:
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator

Or if you'd like to have a conversation about how I could potentially help your account managers, please email me jenny@accountmanagementskills.com. Let's have a chat and see if this might be suitable for you or members of your team.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Bonus episode 1 of 5: Why your account managers need entrepreneurial skills (and how this will grow your agency)</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/68rky6jn-bonus-episode-1-of-5-why-your-account-managers-need-entrepreneurial-skills-and-how-this-will-grow-your-agency</link>
      <itunes:title>Bonus episode 1 of 5: Why your account managers need entrepreneurial skills (and how this will grow your agency)</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>98</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">805zpvj1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to the first in a series of five bonus podcast episodes. I've created this podcast mini series to show you how you can develop an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers, so they can:
- help increase the lifetime value of clients
- generate more referrals
- help you maintain a healthy sales pipeline

In this first short episode, I'll be tacking the 'elephant in the room'. Why do you feel your account managers are not spotting those growth opportunities? 

And over the next four episodes, I'll then be looking at the key qualities for entrepreneurially-minded account managers. 

By the way, everything I'll share in this podcast series is covered in my Account Accelerator programme and ultimately it's designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in account management. You can read more about the programme here:
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator

Or if you'd like to have a conversation about how I could potentially help your account managers, please email me jenny@accountmanagementskills.com. Let's have a chat and see if this might be suitable for you or members of your team.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to the first in a series of five bonus podcast episodes. I've created this podcast mini series to show you how you can develop an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers, so they can:<br>- help increase the lifetime value of clients<br>- generate more referrals<br>- help you maintain a healthy sales pipeline<br><br>In this first short episode, I'll be tacking the 'elephant in the room'. Why do you feel your account managers are not spotting those growth opportunities?&nbsp;<br><br>And over the next four episodes, I'll then be looking at the key qualities for entrepreneurially-minded account managers.&nbsp;<br><br>By the way, everything I'll share in this podcast series is covered in my Account Accelerator programme and ultimately it's designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in account management. You can read more about the programme here:<br>https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator<br><br>Or if you'd like to have a conversation about how I could potentially help your account managers, please email me jenny@accountmanagementskills.com. Let's have a chat and see if this might be suitable for you or members of your team.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Fri, 24 Nov 2023 14:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/wyq3kxkw.mp3" length="8395671" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/6242dfc0-8ad3-11ee-adba-313cb0f78b28/6242e160-8ad3-11ee-bc29-45f6a6402e62.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>419</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to the first in a series of five bonus podcast episodes. I've created this podcast mini series to show you how you can develop an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers, so they can:
- help increase the lifetime value of clients
- generate more referrals
- help you maintain a healthy sales pipeline

In this first short episode, I'll be tacking the 'elephant in the room'. Why do you feel your account managers are not spotting those growth opportunities? 

And over the next four episodes, I'll then be looking at the key qualities for entrepreneurially-minded account managers. 

By the way, everything I'll share in this podcast series is covered in my Account Accelerator programme and ultimately it's designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in account management. You can read more about the programme here:
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator

Or if you'd like to have a conversation about how I could potentially help your account managers, please email me jenny@accountmanagementskills.com. Let's have a chat and see if this might be suitable for you or members of your team.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to the first in a series of five bonus podcast episodes. I've created this podcast mini series to show you how you can develop an entrepreneurial mindset in your agency account managers, so they can:
- help increase the lifetime value of clients
- generate more referrals
- help you maintain a healthy sales pipeline

In this first short episode, I'll be tacking the 'elephant in the room'. Why do you feel your account managers are not spotting those growth opportunities? 

And over the next four episodes, I'll then be looking at the key qualities for entrepreneurially-minded account managers. 

By the way, everything I'll share in this podcast series is covered in my Account Accelerator programme and ultimately it's designed to build an entrepreneurial mindset in account management. You can read more about the programme here:
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator

Or if you'd like to have a conversation about how I could potentially help your account managers, please email me jenny@accountmanagementskills.com. Let's have a chat and see if this might be suitable for you or members of your team.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How creative, strategy and account management work together in an agency, with Free Partners</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/xny6r4m8-how-creative-strategy-and-account-management-work-together-in-an-agency-with-free-partners</link>
      <itunes:title>How creative, strategy and account management work together in an agency, with Free Partners</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>97</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">l14729n0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 97. 
My first ever podcast was with Kate Whittaker, head of corporate communications at DUAL Group, so working on the client side. During that episode she was explaining the exceptional agency who worked with her, particularly about their excellent client service, but also how they really understand her and her business. 
So for this episode, I invited the leadership team of that agency, Free Partners, to talk to me about how they work and think. 
You'll hear from Managing Partner, Lorraine Jeckells, Brand Director, Greg Phitidis, and Creative Director, Guy Cornet. 

We chatted about:
- their agency's specialist positioning, focusing just in the insurance market and why that's beneficial to their business, to their team and to their clients. 
- their agency values and how they bring them to life through their ways of working. 
- their internal processes and how the three departments (account management/strategy/creative) work together in a client centric way. 

They also go deep into the importance of the creative brief, why they have a tactical and a strategic briefing process, and how they grow their own talent from graduate level so that they are moulded into the Free Partners ways of working. And finally, how they delight their clients by being proactive and bringing fresh thinking and initiatives without waiting passively for briefs.

If you’re listening to this at the end of 2023 and you want to build a more entrepreneurial mindset in your account management role or your team, I'm enrolling right now for my twelve month training and mentoring program called the Account Accelerator. 

I created the Account Accelerator because agency owners were telling me they knew their existing client accounts could grow further but they needed their account managers to do three key things:

1.	Act as trusted advisors rather than order takers, so they understood their clients business objectives and felt confident to have conversations about how the agency could help. 
2.	Spot upsell and cross sell opportunities and follow them effectively so they could increase retention and generate new business opportunities with existing clients. 
3.	Ask insightful questions to uncover client challenges and feel confident presenting new ideas and asking for referrals and testimonials so they could help a strong sales pipeline of new leads and capture proof of happy clients. 

So if all of this sounds interesting, then please visit my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com, where you can book a call, have a chat with me and see if this might be a good fit for you or a member of your team.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 97. <br>My first ever podcast was with Kate Whittaker, head of corporate communications at DUAL Group, so working on the client side. During that episode she was explaining the exceptional agency who worked with her, particularly about their excellent client service, but also how they really understand her and her business.<br>&nbsp;<br>So for this episode, I invited the leadership team of that agency, Free Partners, to talk to me about how they work and think.<br>&nbsp;<br>You'll hear from Managing Partner, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorraine-jeckells/">Lorraine Jeckells</a>, Brand Director, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregphitidis/">Greg Phitidis</a>, and Creative Director, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/guycornet/">Guy Cornet</a>. &nbsp;<br><br>We chatted about:<br>- their agency's specialist positioning, focusing just in the insurance market and why that's beneficial to their business, to their team and to their clients.&nbsp;<br>- their agency values and how they bring them to life through their ways of working.&nbsp;<br>- their internal processes and how the three departments (account management/strategy/creative) work together in a client centric way.&nbsp;<br><br>They also go deep into the importance of the creative brief, why they have a tactical and a strategic briefing process, and how they grow their own talent from graduate level so that they are moulded into the Free Partners ways of working. And finally, how they delight their clients by being proactive and bringing fresh thinking and initiatives without waiting passively for briefs.&nbsp;<br><br>If you’re listening to this at the end of 2023 and you want to build a more entrepreneurial mindset in your account management role or your team, I'm enrolling right now for my twelve month training and mentoring program called the Account Accelerator.&nbsp;<br><br>I created the Account Accelerator because agency owners were telling me they knew their existing client accounts could grow further but they needed their account managers to do three key things:<br><br>1. Act as trusted advisors rather than order takers, so they understood their clients business objectives and felt confident to have conversations about how the agency could help.&nbsp;<br>2. Spot upsell and cross sell opportunities and follow them effectively so they could increase retention and generate new business opportunities with existing clients.&nbsp;<br>3. Ask insightful questions to uncover client challenges and feel confident presenting new ideas and asking for referrals and testimonials so they could help a strong sales pipeline of new leads and capture proof of happy clients.&nbsp;<br><br>So if all of this sounds interesting, then please visit my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com, where you can book a call, have a chat with me and see if this might be a good fit for you or a member of your team.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Mon, 20 Nov 2023 15:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/wj0p32nw.mp3" length="54956324" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/6601c2f0-8850-11ee-a946-db4316858738/6601c460-8850-11ee-bb7e-adf4177649c3.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2747</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 97. 
My first ever podcast was with Kate Whittaker, head of corporate communications at DUAL Group, so working on the client side. During that episode she was explaining the exceptional agency who worked with her, particularly about their excellent client service, but also how they really understand her and her business. 
So for this episode, I invited the leadership team of that agency, Free Partners, to talk to me about how they work and think. 
You'll hear from Managing Partner, Lorraine Jeckells, Brand Director, Greg Phitidis, and Creative Director, Guy Cornet. 

We chatted about:
- their agency's specialist positioning, focusing just in the insurance market and why that's beneficial to their business, to their team and to their clients. 
- their agency values and how they bring them to life through their ways of working. 
- their internal processes and how the three departments (account management/strategy/creative) work together in a client centric way. 

They also go deep into the importance of the creative brief, why they have a tactical and a strategic briefing process, and how they grow their own talent from graduate level so that they are moulded into the Free Partners ways of working. And finally, how they delight their clients by being proactive and bringing fresh thinking and initiatives without waiting passively for briefs.

If you’re listening to this at the end of 2023 and you want to build a more entrepreneurial mindset in your account management role or your team, I'm enrolling right now for my twelve month training and mentoring program called the Account Accelerator. 

I created the Account Accelerator because agency owners were telling me they knew their existing client accounts could grow further but they needed their account managers to do three key things:

1.	Act as trusted advisors rather than order takers, so they understood their clients business objectives and felt confident to have conversations about how the agency could help. 
2.	Spot upsell and cross sell opportunities and follow them effectively so they could increase retention and generate new business opportunities with existing clients. 
3.	Ask insightful questions to uncover client challenges and feel confident presenting new ideas and asking for referrals and testimonials so they could help a strong sales pipeline of new leads and capture proof of happy clients. 

So if all of this sounds interesting, then please visit my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com, where you can book a call, have a chat with me and see if this might be a good fit for you or a member of your team.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 97. 
My first ever podcast was with Kate Whittaker, head of corporate communications at DUAL Group, so working on the client side. During that episode she was explaining the exceptional agency who worked with her, particularly about their excellent client service, but also how they really understand her and her business. 
So for this episode, I invited the leadership team of that agency, Free Partners, to talk to me about how they work and think. 
You'll hear from Managing Partner, Lorraine Jeckells, Brand Director, Greg Phitidis, and Creative Director, Guy Cornet. 

We chatted about:
- their agency's specialist positioning, focusing just in the insurance market and why that's beneficial to their business, to their team and to their clients. 
- their agency values and how they bring them to life through their ways of working. 
- their internal processes and how the three departments (account management/strategy/creative) work together in a client centric way. 

They also go deep into the importance of the creative brief, why they have a tactical and a strategic briefing process, and how they grow their own talent from graduate level so that they are moulded into the Free Partners ways of working. And finally, how they delight their clients by being proactive and bringing fresh thinking and initiatives without waiting passively for briefs.

If you’re listening to this at the end of 2023 and you want to build a more entrepreneurial mindset in your account management role or your team, I'm enrolling right now for my twelve month training and mentoring program called the Account Accelerator. 

I created the Account Accelerator because agency owners were telling me they knew their existing client accounts could grow further but they needed their account managers to do three key things:

1.	Act as trusted advisors rather than order takers, so they understood their clients business objectives and felt confident to have conversations about how the agency could help. 
2.	Spot upsell and cross sell opportunities and follow them effectively so they could increase retention and generate new business opportunities with existing clients. 
3.	Ask insightful questions to uncover client challenges and feel confident presenting new ideas and asking for referrals and testimonials so they could help a strong sales pipeline of new leads and capture proof of happy clients. 

So if all of this sounds interesting, then please visit my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com, where you can book a call, have a chat with me and see if this might be a good fit for you or a member of your team.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>creative agency, strategic marketing, planning, client service</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to improve performance and reduce stress, with David Meikle</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/x8v2lk98-how-to-improve-performance-and-reduce-stress-with-david-meikle</link>
      <itunes:title>How to improve performance and reduce stress, with David Meikle</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>96</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">70ykpy30</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 96. My guest is David Meikle, the author of ‘Tuning Up’, a book about improving performance and reducing stress in advertising and marketing. This chat will be particularly interesting for you if you're finding the pressure and stress of working in an agency unmanageable, or you're responsible for creating positive agency environment in which your team can thrive. 

We discuss:
-	why David describes the relationship between the agency, the client and the client's procurement department as the triangle of doom. 
-	David’s signature relationship diagnostic tool, The Meikle Matrix, that essentially helps you pinpoint the heart of the problem with any relationship
-	how this diagnostic tool can help you in practical ways in your agency. I highly recommend you reading this book for me. 

You can visit David’s website at https://www.tuningup.co.uk for more information about the book and also to road test a prototype of The Meikle Matrix for yourself. 

If you’re listening to this at the end of 2023 and you want to build a more entrepreneurial mindset in your account management role or your team, I'm enrolling right now for my twelve month training and mentoring program called the Account Accelerator. 

I created the Account Accelerator because agency owners were telling me they knew their existing client accounts could grow further but they needed their account managers to do three key things:

1.	Act as trusted advisors rather than order takers, so they understood their clients business objectives and felt confident to have conversations about how the agency could help. 
2.	Spot upsell and cross sell opportunities and follow them effectively so they could increase retention and generate new business opportunities with existing clients. 
3.	Ask insightful questions to uncover client challenges and feel confident presenting new ideas and asking for referrals and testimonials so they could help a strong sales pipeline of new leads and capture proof of happy clients. 


I've had 30 years experience in account management and, having trained account growth since 2016, I know not all account managers have the skills, the experience or the mindset to deliver at this level, and many agencies don't have the right internal processes in place to support their account managers with account growth. 

But, I believe with the right strategies, systems, processes and the support, your account managers can become more entrepreneurially minded, which could have a big impact on your agency's bottom line. 

So if all of this sounds interesting, then please visit my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com, where you can book a call, have a chat with me and see if this might be a good fit for you or a member of your team.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 96. My guest is David Meikle, the author of ‘Tuning Up’, a book about improving performance and reducing stress in advertising and marketing. This chat will be particularly interesting for you if you're finding the pressure and stress of working in an agency unmanageable, or you're responsible for creating positive agency environment in which your team can thrive.&nbsp;<br><br>We discuss:<br>- why David describes the relationship between the agency, the client and the client's procurement department as the triangle of doom.&nbsp;<br>- David’s signature relationship diagnostic tool, The Meikle Matrix, that essentially helps you pinpoint the heart of the problem with any relationship<br>- how this diagnostic tool can help you in practical ways in your agency. I highly recommend you reading this book for me.&nbsp;<br><br>You can visit David’s website at https://www.tuningup.co.uk for more information about the book and also to road test a prototype of The Meikle Matrix for yourself.&nbsp;<br><br>If you’re listening to this at the end of 2023 and you want to build a more entrepreneurial mindset in your account management role or your team, I'm enrolling right now for my twelve month training and mentoring program called the Account Accelerator.&nbsp;<br><br>I created the Account Accelerator because agency owners were telling me they knew their existing client accounts could grow further but they needed their account managers to do three key things:<br><br>1. Act as trusted advisors rather than order takers, so they understood their clients business objectives and felt confident to have conversations about how the agency could help.&nbsp;<br>2. Spot upsell and cross sell opportunities and follow them effectively so they could increase retention and generate new business opportunities with existing clients.&nbsp;<br>3. Ask insightful questions to uncover client challenges and feel confident presenting new ideas and asking for referrals and testimonials so they could help a strong sales pipeline of new leads and capture proof of happy clients.&nbsp;<br><br><br>I've had 30 years experience in account management and, having trained account growth since 2016, I know not all account managers have the skills, the experience or the mindset to deliver at this level, and many agencies don't have the right internal processes in place to support their account managers with account growth.&nbsp;<br><br>But, I believe with the right strategies, systems, processes and the support, your account managers can become more entrepreneurially minded, which could have a big impact on your agency's bottom line.&nbsp;<br><br>So if all of this sounds interesting, then please visit my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com, where you can book a call, have a chat with me and see if this might be a good fit for you or a member of your team.&nbsp;<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Mon, 06 Nov 2023 16:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/w0vz5xvw.mp3" length="61954528" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/e706ad40-7cbf-11ee-9b7e-25d4df0dc479/e706aeb0-7cbf-11ee-a823-01349b826aef.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>3097</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 96. My guest is David Meikle, the author of ‘Tuning Up’, a book about improving performance and reducing stress in advertising and marketing. This chat will be particularly interesting for you if you're finding the pressure and stress of working in an agency unmanageable, or you're responsible for creating positive agency environment in which your team can thrive. 

We discuss:
-	why David describes the relationship between the agency, the client and the client's procurement department as the triangle of doom. 
-	David’s signature relationship diagnostic tool, The Meikle Matrix, that essentially helps you pinpoint the heart of the problem with any relationship
-	how this diagnostic tool can help you in practical ways in your agency. I highly recommend you reading this book for me. 

You can visit David’s website at https://www.tuningup.co.uk for more information about the book and also to road test a prototype of The Meikle Matrix for yourself. 

If you’re listening to this at the end of 2023 and you want to build a more entrepreneurial mindset in your account management role or your team, I'm enrolling right now for my twelve month training and mentoring program called the Account Accelerator. 

I created the Account Accelerator because agency owners were telling me they knew their existing client accounts could grow further but they needed their account managers to do three key things:

1.	Act as trusted advisors rather than order takers, so they understood their clients business objectives and felt confident to have conversations about how the agency could help. 
2.	Spot upsell and cross sell opportunities and follow them effectively so they could increase retention and generate new business opportunities with existing clients. 
3.	Ask insightful questions to uncover client challenges and feel confident presenting new ideas and asking for referrals and testimonials so they could help a strong sales pipeline of new leads and capture proof of happy clients. 


I've had 30 years experience in account management and, having trained account growth since 2016, I know not all account managers have the skills, the experience or the mindset to deliver at this level, and many agencies don't have the right internal processes in place to support their account managers with account growth. 

But, I believe with the right strategies, systems, processes and the support, your account managers can become more entrepreneurially minded, which could have a big impact on your agency's bottom line. 

So if all of this sounds interesting, then please visit my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com, where you can book a call, have a chat with me and see if this might be a good fit for you or a member of your team.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 96. My guest is David Meikle, the author of ‘Tuning Up’, a book about improving performance and reducing stress in advertising and marketing. This chat will be particularly interesting for you if you're finding the pressure and stress of working in an agency unmanageable, or you're responsible for creating positive agency environment in which your team can thrive. 

We discuss:
-	why David describes the relationship between the agency, the client and the client's procurement department as the triangle of doom. 
-	David’s signature relationship diagnostic tool, The Meikle Matrix, that essentially helps you pinpoint the heart of the problem with any relationship
-	how this diagnostic tool can help you in practical ways in your agency. I highly recommend you reading this book for me. 

You can visit David’s website at https://www.tuningup.co.uk for more information about the book and also to road test a prototype of The Meikle Matrix for yourself. 

If you’re listening to this at the end of 2023 and you want to build a more entrepreneurial mindset in your account management role or your team, I'm enrolling right now for my twelve month training and mentoring program called the Account Accelerator. 

I created the Account Accelerator because agency owners were telling me they knew their existing client accounts could grow further but they needed their account managers to do three key things:

1.	Act as trusted advisors rather than order takers, so they understood their clients business objectives and felt confident to have conversations about how the agency could help. 
2.	Spot upsell and cross sell opportunities and follow them effectively so they could increase retention and generate new business opportunities with existing clients. 
3.	Ask insightful questions to uncover client challenges and feel confident presenting new ideas and asking for referrals and testimonials so they could help a strong sales pipeline of new leads and capture proof of happy clients. 


I've had 30 years experience in account management and, having trained account growth since 2016, I know not all account managers have the skills, the experience or the mindset to deliver at this level, and many agencies don't have the right internal processes in place to support their account managers with account growth. 

But, I believe with the right strategies, systems, processes and the support, your account managers can become more entrepreneurially minded, which could have a big impact on your agency's bottom line. 

So if all of this sounds interesting, then please visit my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com, where you can book a call, have a chat with me and see if this might be a good fit for you or a member of your team.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What's wrong with agency new business and how to fix it with Benjamin Dennehy</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/p8m6xm0n-what-s-wrong-with-agency-new-business-and-how-to-fix-it-with-benjamin-dennehy</link>
      <itunes:title>What's wrong with agency new business and how to fix it with Benjamin Dennehy</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>95</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">70vp2rn0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 95. This episode is particularly relevant for you if you’re responsible for agency new business.  

I'm joined by Benjamin Dennehy, UK's Most Hated Sales Trainer, and I hope by the end of listening to our chat it might just change your thinking about how you currently qualify prospects and sell your agency’s services, , particularly if you’ve never received any professional sales training.

Benjamin invites us to challenge our beliefs around pitching and giving away your ideas for free which is so typically entrenched in the marketing services industry.

He also shares some great examples of how to approach things differently.

NB: If you don’t like swearing this isn’t the episode for you.

Please go and follow Benjamin on LinkedIn, his content is not only useful and practical it’s very different to the usual stuff you see about sales.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamindennehy/
www.salesmatrixcourses.com
www.uksmosthatedsalestrainer.com
www.youtube.com/c/UKsMostHatedSalesTrainer

If you’re listening to this at the end of 2023,  I’m opening enrolment soon for my one year Account Accelerator training and coaching programme that starts on 11th January 2024.  It is designed to give those responsible for account growth in the agency the entrepreneurial skills and mindset to support the growth of your client accounts and your agency. 

If you're in account management at any level or you have someone in your team who this might be suitable for, please send me an email to jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or drop me a DM on LinkedIn and I’ll let you have all the details when they’re available so you can decide if it’s a good fit. Places are limited for the January cohort.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 95. This episode is particularly relevant for you if you’re responsible for agency new business.&nbsp; <br><br>I'm joined by Benjamin Dennehy, UK's Most Hated Sales Trainer, and I hope by the end of listening to our chat it might just change your thinking about how you currently qualify prospects and sell your agency’s services, , particularly if you’ve never received any professional sales training.<br><br>Benjamin invites us to challenge our beliefs around pitching and giving away your ideas for free which is so typically entrenched in the marketing services industry.<br><br>He also shares some great examples of how to approach things differently.<br><br>NB: If you don’t like swearing this isn’t the episode for you.<br><br>Please go and follow Benjamin on LinkedIn, his content is not only useful and practical it’s very different to the usual stuff you see about sales.<br><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamindennehy/">http://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamindennehy/</a><br><a href="https://www.salesmatrixcourses.com">www.salesmatrixcourses.com</a><br><a href="https://www.uksmosthatedsalestrainer.com">www.uksmosthatedsalestrainer.com</a><br><a href="https://www.youtube.com/c/UKsMostHatedSalesTrainer">www.youtube.com/c/UKsMostHatedSalesTrainer</a><br><br>If you’re listening to this at the end of 2023,&nbsp; I’m opening enrolment soon for my one year Account Accelerator training and coaching programme that starts on 11th January 2024.&nbsp; It is designed to give those responsible for account growth in the agency the entrepreneurial skills and mindset to support the growth of your client accounts and your agency. <br><br>If you're in account management at any level or you have someone in your team who this might be suitable for, please send me an email to jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or drop me a DM on LinkedIn and I’ll let you have all the details when they’re available so you can decide if it’s a good fit. Places are limited for the January cohort.<br><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant">https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant</a></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2023 12:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8mkxqk98.mp3" length="70406708" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/9ecae0a0-6ce8-11ee-b718-af5ecdf58f65/9ecae240-6ce8-11ee-8c7f-bf758e33b621.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>3520</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 95. This episode is particularly relevant for you if you’re responsible for agency new business.  

I'm joined by Benjamin Dennehy, UK's Most Hated Sales Trainer, and I hope by the end of listening to our chat it might just change your thinking about how you currently qualify prospects and sell your agency’s services, , particularly if you’ve never received any professional sales training.

Benjamin invites us to challenge our beliefs around pitching and giving away your ideas for free which is so typically entrenched in the marketing services industry.

He also shares some great examples of how to approach things differently.

NB: If you don’t like swearing this isn’t the episode for you.

Please go and follow Benjamin on LinkedIn, his content is not only useful and practical it’s very different to the usual stuff you see about sales.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamindennehy/
www.salesmatrixcourses.com
www.uksmosthatedsalestrainer.com
www.youtube.com/c/UKsMostHatedSalesTrainer

If you’re listening to this at the end of 2023,  I’m opening enrolment soon for my one year Account Accelerator training and coaching programme that starts on 11th January 2024.  It is designed to give those responsible for account growth in the agency the entrepreneurial skills and mindset to support the growth of your client accounts and your agency. 

If you're in account management at any level or you have someone in your team who this might be suitable for, please send me an email to jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or drop me a DM on LinkedIn and I’ll let you have all the details when they’re available so you can decide if it’s a good fit. Places are limited for the January cohort.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 95. This episode is particularly relevant for you if you’re responsible for agency new business.  

I'm joined by Benjamin Dennehy, UK's Most Hated Sales Trainer, and I hope by the end of listening to our chat it might just change your thinking about how you currently qualify prospects and sell your agency’s services, , particularly if you’ve never received any professional sales training.

Benjamin invites us to challenge our beliefs around pitching and giving away your ideas for free which is so typically entrenched in the marketing services industry.

He also shares some great examples of how to approach things differently.

NB: If you don’t like swearing this isn’t the episode for you.

Please go and follow Benjamin on LinkedIn, his content is not only useful and practical it’s very different to the usual stuff you see about sales.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamindennehy/
www.salesmatrixcourses.com
www.uksmosthatedsalestrainer.com
www.youtube.com/c/UKsMostHatedSalesTrainer

If you’re listening to this at the end of 2023,  I’m opening enrolment soon for my one year Account Accelerator training and coaching programme that starts on 11th January 2024.  It is designed to give those responsible for account growth in the agency the entrepreneurial skills and mindset to support the growth of your client accounts and your agency. 

If you're in account management at any level or you have someone in your team who this might be suitable for, please send me an email to jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or drop me a DM on LinkedIn and I’ll let you have all the details when they’re available so you can decide if it’s a good fit. Places are limited for the January cohort.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How agency leaders can help account managers to grow existing client business, with Jenny Plant</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/rnkrrz78-how-agency-leaders-can-help-account-managers-to-grow-existing-client-business-with-jenny-plant</link>
      <itunes:title>How agency leaders can help account managers to grow existing client business, with Jenny Plant</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>94</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">70wnn261</guid>
      <description>This episode is for agency leaders who are supporting their account manager to grow the existing client business. 

I’m going to share tips for ensuring the agency leadership team are providing the right level of support to their account management team in three key areas;

1.	Providing the commercial context
2.	Internal processes
3.	Relationship risk management

If you are an account manager, or you have an account manager or account director or client services director in your team, who you want to provide with the mindset and the skillset to grow the existing business, then we will be opening applications soon for the Account Accelerator programme, a year long programme we're kicking off in January 2024. We'll have an initial nine week period where we give you all the training, all the strategies, a toolbox of different ways that you can grow your business, and then you will also receive the support from me to implement. You'll also join a peer group on Slack with other account managers, account directors, group account directors, client services directors who are all doing the same thing.

If you're interested, please contact me on LinkedIn or send me an email at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or visit the Account Accelerator programme page on my website. We'll be updating the website very soon with a full page of all the learning outcomes that you can expect to achieve.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>This episode is for agency leaders who are supporting their account manager to grow the existing client business.&nbsp;<br><br>I’m going to share tips for ensuring the agency leadership team are providing the right level of support to their account management team in three key areas;<br><br>1. Providing the commercial context<br>2. Internal processes<br>3. Relationship risk management<br><br>If you are an account manager, or you have an account manager or account director or client services director in your team, who you want to provide with the mindset and the skillset to grow the existing business, then we will be opening applications soon for the Account Accelerator programme, a year long programme we're kicking off in January 2024. We'll have an initial nine week period where we give you all the training, all the strategies, a toolbox of different ways that you can grow your business, and then you will also receive the support from me to implement. You'll also join a peer group on Slack with other account managers, account directors, group account directors, client services directors who are all doing the same thing.<br><br></div><div>If you're interested, please contact me on <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant">LinkedIn</a> or send me an email at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or visit the <a href="https://accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator/">Account Accelerator programme page</a>. We'll be updating the website very soon with a full page of all the learning outcomes that you can expect to achieve.<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2023 14:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8qynq598.mp3" length="23505941" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/6e46f190-66b3-11ee-a18f-91b770386c3b/6e46f310-66b3-11ee-a9ad-bb188ae90653.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>1175</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>This episode is for agency leaders who are supporting their account manager to grow the existing client business. 

I’m going to share tips for ensuring the agency leadership team are providing the right level of support to their account management team in three key areas;

1.	Providing the commercial context
2.	Internal processes
3.	Relationship risk management

If you are an account manager, or you have an account manager or account director or client services director in your team, who you want to provide with the mindset and the skillset to grow the existing business, then we will be opening applications soon for the Account Accelerator programme, a year long programme we're kicking off in January 2024. We'll have an initial nine week period where we give you all the training, all the strategies, a toolbox of different ways that you can grow your business, and then you will also receive the support from me to implement. You'll also join a peer group on Slack with other account managers, account directors, group account directors, client services directors who are all doing the same thing.

If you're interested, please contact me on LinkedIn or send me an email at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or visit the Account Accelerator programme page on my website. We'll be updating the website very soon with a full page of all the learning outcomes that you can expect to achieve.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>This episode is for agency leaders who are supporting their account manager to grow the existing client business. 

I’m going to share tips for ensuring the agency leadership team are providing the right level of support to their account management team in three key areas;

1.	Providing the commercial context
2.	Internal processes
3.	Relationship risk management

If you are an account manager, or you have an account manager or account director or client services director in your team, who you want to provide with the mindset and the skillset to grow the existing business, then we will be opening applications soon for the Account Accelerator programme, a year long programme we're kicking off in January 2024. We'll have an initial nine week period where we give you all the training, all the strategies, a toolbox of different ways that you can grow your business, and then you will also receive the support from me to implement. You'll also join a peer group on Slack with other account managers, account directors, group account directors, client services directors who are all doing the same thing.

If you're interested, please contact me on LinkedIn or send me an email at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or visit the Account Accelerator programme page on my website. We'll be updating the website very soon with a full page of all the learning outcomes that you can expect to achieve.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>A creative director's perspective on account management, with Joey Tackett</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/2n6m9k98-a-creative-director-s-perspective-on-account-management-with-joey-tackett</link>
      <itunes:title>A creative director's perspective on account management, with Joey Tackett</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>93</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">j027n6n1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 93. If you’re working in creative agency account management you know how essential it is to have a positive relationship with your creative director built on trust.

I asked Creative Director, Joey Tackett, to join me and discuss what’s most important to him about working with account managers so we can see account management through the lens of the creative team.

Joey shares:

1.	The key skills he believes AMs need to be respected by their creative team 
2.	Where the relationship can break down and why 
3.	How he diffuses tension between the AM and creative team
4.	Some useful tips for making your client presentations more impactful 

I hope you enjoy the insights from my chat with Joey and pick up some tips to help you in your account management role. If you want to develop your account management skills, be seen less as an order taker and more like a consultant by your clients, then check out the details of my 9 week Account Accelerator and 1 week Account Booster programmes on my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 93. If you’re working in creative agency account management you know how essential it is to have a positive relationship with your creative director built on trust.<br><br>I asked Creative Director, Joey Tackett, to join me and discuss what’s most important to him about working with account managers so we can see account management through the lens of the creative team.<br><br>Joey shares:<br><br>1.	The key skills he believes AMs need to be respected by their creative team&nbsp;<br>2.	Where the relationship can break down and why&nbsp;<br>3.	How he diffuses tension between the AM and creative team<br>4.	Some useful tips for making your client presentations more impactful&nbsp;<br><br>I hope you enjoy the insights from my chat with Joey and pick up some tips to help you in your account management role. If you want to develop your account management skills, be seen less as an order taker and more like a consultant by your clients, then check out the details of my 9 week Account Accelerator and 1 week Account Booster programmes on my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 05 Sep 2023 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/87p12l0w.mp3" length="54586953" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/435f1e60-48ca-11ee-a04a-a3d8ba620b5b/435f1ff0-48ca-11ee-91fb-510bc33ae574.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2729</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 93. If you’re working in creative agency account management you know how essential it is to have a positive relationship with your creative director built on trust.

I asked Creative Director, Joey Tackett, to join me and discuss what’s most important to him about working with account managers so we can see account management through the lens of the creative team.

Joey shares:

1.	The key skills he believes AMs need to be respected by their creative team 
2.	Where the relationship can break down and why 
3.	How he diffuses tension between the AM and creative team
4.	Some useful tips for making your client presentations more impactful 

I hope you enjoy the insights from my chat with Joey and pick up some tips to help you in your account management role. If you want to develop your account management skills, be seen less as an order taker and more like a consultant by your clients, then check out the details of my 9 week Account Accelerator and 1 week Account Booster programmes on my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 93. If you’re working in creative agency account management you know how essential it is to have a positive relationship with your creative director built on trust.

I asked Creative Director, Joey Tackett, to join me and discuss what’s most important to him about working with account managers so we can see account management through the lens of the creative team.

Joey shares:

1.	The key skills he believes AMs need to be respected by their creative team 
2.	Where the relationship can break down and why 
3.	How he diffuses tension between the AM and creative team
4.	Some useful tips for making your client presentations more impactful 

I hope you enjoy the insights from my chat with Joey and pick up some tips to help you in your account management role. If you want to develop your account management skills, be seen less as an order taker and more like a consultant by your clients, then check out the details of my 9 week Account Accelerator and 1 week Account Booster programmes on my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How an SEO agency is automating their internal workflow using AI tools, with Dale Bertrand</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/1n2jw3qn-how-an-seo-agency-is-automating-their-internal-workflow-using-ai-tools-with-dale-bertrand</link>
      <itunes:title>How an SEO agency is automating their internal workflow using AI tools, with Dale Bertrand</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>92</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">2192rz50</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 92. 

This episode is for you if you’re curious to know how an SEO strategy agency is using AI tools to reduce the amount of repetitive, tedious tasks and free up the team to work on more of the strategic thinking for their clients.

Dale Bertrand, Founder and President of Fire&amp;Spark shares with me:

• How AI tools have reduced his team’s workload and improved efficiencies 
• A step by step breakdown of his internal automated workflow
• Why creating predictive models might end up being your agency’s secret sauce
• What Dale now looks for when hiring new team members 

I think you’re going to enjoy this chat and hopefully come away with some inspiration to look more closely at your internal processes to see where you can speed them up or eliminate them altogether.

I’m now sharing examples of relevant AI tools that account managers can use for those who come on my Account Accelerator training programme. The training is designed to help those in agency client service at every level to have a more systematic and predictable approach to client growth. The client-centric learning outcomes include being more consultative with clients, adding more value proactively and having sales conversations without feeling salesy.

If you or a member of your team is interested to find out more, all the details about the 9 week Account Accelerator programme as well as my shorter 1 week Account Booster programme are on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 92. <br><br>This episode is for you if you’re curious to know how an SEO strategy agency is using AI tools to reduce the amount of repetitive, tedious tasks and free up the team to work on more of the strategic thinking for their clients.<br><br>Dale Bertrand, Founder and President of Fire&amp;Spark shares with me:<br><br>•	How AI tools have reduced his team’s workload and improved efficiencies <br>•	A step by step breakdown of his internal automated workflow<br>•	Why creating predictive models might end up being your agency’s secret sauce<br>•	What Dale now looks for when hiring new team members <br><br>I think you’re going to enjoy this chat and hopefully come away with some inspiration to look more closely at your internal processes to see where you can speed them up or eliminate them altogether.<br><br>I’m now sharing examples of relevant AI tools that account managers can use for those who come on my Account Accelerator training programme. The training is designed to help those in agency client service at every level to have a more systematic and predictable approach to client growth. The client-centric learning outcomes include being more consultative with clients, adding more value proactively and having sales conversations without feeling salesy.<br><br>If you or a member of your team is interested to find out more, all the details about the 9 week Account Accelerator programme as well as my shorter 1 week Account Booster programme are on my website: <a href="https://www.accountmanagementskills.com">https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</a></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2023 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/wz7ql4z8.mp3" length="47635247" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/70345970-3b7b-11ee-a998-7310b3ca53d9/70345ae0-3b7b-11ee-8fdd-e3f6aaf48770.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2381</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 92. 

This episode is for you if you’re curious to know how an SEO strategy agency is using AI tools to reduce the amount of repetitive, tedious tasks and free up the team to work on more of the strategic thinking for their clients.

Dale Bertrand, Founder and President of Fire&amp;Spark shares with me:

• How AI tools have reduced his team’s workload and improved efficiencies 
• A step by step breakdown of his internal automated workflow
• Why creating predictive models might end up being your agency’s secret sauce
• What Dale now looks for when hiring new team members 

I think you’re going to enjoy this chat and hopefully come away with some inspiration to look more closely at your internal processes to see where you can speed them up or eliminate them altogether.

I’m now sharing examples of relevant AI tools that account managers can use for those who come on my Account Accelerator training programme. The training is designed to help those in agency client service at every level to have a more systematic and predictable approach to client growth. The client-centric learning outcomes include being more consultative with clients, adding more value proactively and having sales conversations without feeling salesy.

If you or a member of your team is interested to find out more, all the details about the 9 week Account Accelerator programme as well as my shorter 1 week Account Booster programme are on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 92. 

This episode is for you if you’re curious to know how an SEO strategy agency is using AI tools to reduce the amount of repetitive, tedious tasks and free up the team to work on more of the strategic thinking for their clients.

Dale Bertrand, Founder and President of Fire&amp;Spark shares with me:

• How AI tools have reduced his team’s workload and improved efficiencies 
• A step by step breakdown of his internal automated workflow
• Why creating predictive models might end up being your agency’s secret sauce
• What Dale now looks for when hiring new team members 

I think you’re going to enjoy this chat and hopefully come away with some inspiration to look more closely at your internal processes to see where you can speed them up or eliminate them altogether.

I’m now sharing examples of relevant AI tools that account managers can use for those who come on my Account Accelerator training programme. The training is designed to help those in agency client service at every level to have a more systematic and predictable approach to client growth. The client-centric learning outcomes include being more consultative with clients, adding more value proactively and having sales conversations without feeling salesy.

If you or a member of your team is interested to find out more, all the details about the 9 week Account Accelerator programme as well as my shorter 1 week Account Booster programme are on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>SEO, AI. marketing, creative agency</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How agencies are navigating the legalities of AI use, with Sharon Toerek</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/rnkr7928-how-agencies-are-navigating-the-legalities-of-ai-use-with-sharon-toerek</link>
      <itunes:title>How agencies are navigating the legalities of AI use, with Sharon Toerek</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>91</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">70wn6xr1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 91.

This episode is for you if you're interested in how the AI landscape is changing for agencies and what you need to know from a legal perspective about your use of AI.  I chatted with Sharon Toerek, Founder and Owner of Legal + Creative| Toerek Law. 

The topics that we covered include:
- the ownership of the outputs
- potential protection of your inputs
- designing policies and contracts, including clauses that will cover your freelancers and relationships with contractors, and not to mention your strategic partnerships with other agencies. 
- future developments and what's foreseen to happen, as well as the current US legal environment. 

So lots and lots of different topics that we're going to cover today. 

We will include all of her details in the show notes on my website here: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/podcast

We also ran an AI for Account Managers webinar recently together with Roy Murphy and the recording has been asked for several times. If you don't want to miss out on any future mini trainings we're doing in this area, then please sign up for my newsletter via https://www. accountmanagementskills.com and we'll make sure that you get notified of future podcast episodes and any mini trainings.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 91.<br><br>This episode is for you if you're interested in how the AI landscape is changing for agencies and what you need to know from a legal perspective about your use of AI. &nbsp; I chatted with <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharontoerek/">Sharon Toerek, Founder and Owner of Legal + Creative| Toerek Law. </a><br><br>The topics that we covered include:<br>- the ownership of the outputs<br>- potential protection of your inputs<br>- designing policies and contracts, including clauses that will cover your freelancers and relationships with contractors, and not to mention your strategic partnerships with other agencies.&nbsp;<br>- future developments and what's foreseen to happen, as well as the current US legal environment.&nbsp;<br><br>So lots and lots of different topics that we're going to cover today.&nbsp;<br><br>We will include all of her details in the show notes on my website here: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/podcast<br><br>We also ran an AI for Account Managers webinar recently together with Roy Murphy and the recording has been asked for several times. If you don't want to miss out on any future mini trainings we're doing in this area, then please sign up for my newsletter via https://www. accountmanagementskills.com and we'll make sure that you get notified of future podcast episodes and any mini trainings.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2023 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8l4219n8.mp3" length="44462414" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/3503c980-2c56-11ee-8eec-09195c167f1a/3503cb30-2c56-11ee-8ab2-1d5011c9c044.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2222</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 91.

This episode is for you if you're interested in how the AI landscape is changing for agencies and what you need to know from a legal perspective about your use of AI.  I chatted with Sharon Toerek, Founder and Owner of Legal + Creative| Toerek Law. 

The topics that we covered include:
- the ownership of the outputs
- potential protection of your inputs
- designing policies and contracts, including clauses that will cover your freelancers and relationships with contractors, and not to mention your strategic partnerships with other agencies. 
- future developments and what's foreseen to happen, as well as the current US legal environment. 

So lots and lots of different topics that we're going to cover today. 

We will include all of her details in the show notes on my website here: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/podcast

We also ran an AI for Account Managers webinar recently together with Roy Murphy and the recording has been asked for several times. If you don't want to miss out on any future mini trainings we're doing in this area, then please sign up for my newsletter via https://www. accountmanagementskills.com and we'll make sure that you get notified of future podcast episodes and any mini trainings.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 91.

This episode is for you if you're interested in how the AI landscape is changing for agencies and what you need to know from a legal perspective about your use of AI.  I chatted with Sharon Toerek, Founder and Owner of Legal + Creative| Toerek Law. 

The topics that we covered include:
- the ownership of the outputs
- potential protection of your inputs
- designing policies and contracts, including clauses that will cover your freelancers and relationships with contractors, and not to mention your strategic partnerships with other agencies. 
- future developments and what's foreseen to happen, as well as the current US legal environment. 

So lots and lots of different topics that we're going to cover today. 

We will include all of her details in the show notes on my website here: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/podcast

We also ran an AI for Account Managers webinar recently together with Roy Murphy and the recording has been asked for several times. If you don't want to miss out on any future mini trainings we're doing in this area, then please sign up for my newsletter via https://www. accountmanagementskills.com and we'll make sure that you get notified of future podcast episodes and any mini trainings.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How does a non-billable CSD spend their time in an agency?, with Luke Bowler</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/p8l3qw7n-how-does-a-non-billable-csd-spend-their-time-with-luke-bowler</link>
      <itunes:title>How does a non-billable CSD spend their time in an agency?, with Luke Bowler</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>90</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">x1l45381</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 90, which is for you if you’d like to know what a non-billable CSD does in an agency.
Luke Bowler from Therefore Interactive joined me and he shares:
· How he went from studying to be a designer to moving to the account management role
· Why his CSD role is non-billable and how he decides where best to spend his time
· How he interacts with the project management team who are running the day to day projects
· How he cleverly keeps abreast of his client’s industry news despite the fact they’re spread across multiple industries
· The project management tools his agency is using as well as how they’re incorporating AI

If you’re listening to this episode before 20th July 2023 I’m running a free webinar on AI for account managers. Roy Murphy from Synthetic is going to provide an update on the current AI landscape, how brands &amp; agencies are using AI, ethical considerations and challenges and we’ll be sharing some specific use cases for account managers. You can sign up to join live and also receive a recording. https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_Pxcr6NIuSZ-rs84h7Lap3A

If you don’t want to miss out on future free trainings, you can sign up to my newsletter by going to https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 90, which is for you if you’d like to know what a non-billable CSD does in an agency.<br>Luke Bowler from Therefore Interactive joined me and he shares:<br>· How he went from studying to be a designer to moving to the account management role<br>· Why his CSD role is non-billable and how he decides where best to spend his time<br>· How he interacts with the project management team who are running the day to day projects<br>· How he cleverly keeps abreast of his client’s industry news despite the fact they’re spread across multiple industries<br>· The project management tools his agency is using as well as how they’re incorporating AI<br><br>If you’re listening to this episode before 20th July 2023 I’m running a free webinar on AI for account managers. Roy Murphy from Synthetic is going to provide an update on the current AI landscape, how brands &amp; agencies are using AI, ethical considerations and challenges and we’ll be sharing some specific use cases for account managers. You can sign up to join live and also receive a recording. <a href="https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_Pxcr6NIuSZ-rs84h7Lap3A">https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_Pxcr6NIuSZ-rs84h7Lap3A</a><br><br>If you don’t want to miss out on future free trainings, you can sign up to my newsletter by going to <a href="https://www.accountmanagementskills.com">https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</a></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Wed, 19 Jul 2023 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8rj5mj98.mp3" length="53662218" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/d447a720-40f4-11ee-bef2-e9697e314f9d/d447a930-40f4-11ee-94fa-21962f7209cb.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2682</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 90, which is for you if you’d like to know what a non-billable CSD does in an agency.
Luke Bowler from Therefore Interactive joined me and he shares:
· How he went from studying to be a designer to moving to the account management role
· Why his CSD role is non-billable and how he decides where best to spend his time
· How he interacts with the project management team who are running the day to day projects
· How he cleverly keeps abreast of his client’s industry news despite the fact they’re spread across multiple industries
· The project management tools his agency is using as well as how they’re incorporating AI

If you’re listening to this episode before 20th July 2023 I’m running a free webinar on AI for account managers. Roy Murphy from Synthetic is going to provide an update on the current AI landscape, how brands &amp; agencies are using AI, ethical considerations and challenges and we’ll be sharing some specific use cases for account managers. You can sign up to join live and also receive a recording. https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_Pxcr6NIuSZ-rs84h7Lap3A

If you don’t want to miss out on future free trainings, you can sign up to my newsletter by going to https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 90, which is for you if you’d like to know what a non-billable CSD does in an agency.
Luke Bowler from Therefore Interactive joined me and he shares:
· How he went from studying to be a designer to moving to the account management role
· Why his CSD role is non-billable and how he decides where best to spend his time
· How he interacts with the project management team who are running the day to day projects
· How he cleverly keeps abreast of his client’s industry news despite the fact they’re spread across multiple industries
· The project management tools his agency is using as well as how they’re incorporating AI

If you’re listening to this episode before 20th July 2023 I’m running a free webinar on AI for account managers. Roy Murphy from Synthetic is going to provide an update on the current AI landscape, how brands &amp; agencies are using AI, ethical considerations and challenges and we’ll be sharing some specific use cases for account managers. You can sign up to join live and also receive a recording. https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_Pxcr6NIuSZ-rs84h7Lap3A

If you don’t want to miss out on future free trainings, you can sign up to my newsletter by going to https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What a senior account director does in a brand strategy agency, with Andy Kaye</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/v856y04n-what-a-senior-account-director-does-in-a-brand-strategy-agency-with-andy-kaye</link>
      <itunes:title>What a senior account director does in a brand strategy agency, with Andy Kaye</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>89</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">81qv4yx0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 89. This episode is for you if you're curious to understand what a senior account director does in a brand strategy agency. 

I chat to Andy Kaye, senior account director at Mr B &amp; Friends and we discuss:
-  the importance of being proactive with clients and staying informed about industry trends
- share tips on staying up to date with your clients business
- discuss how often you should be looking at your forecast
- why and how to build strong client relationships that result in clients coming back to you
- and how to transform your internal briefing process to make it more experiential
- and lots more... 

You're going to take away some great tips from this episode that you can go back to your agency and use. And if you're in an agency account management role and you're keen to be seen by your clients as more of an advisor than a reactive order taker, then check out the details of my account management training courses. 

We are kicking off both the one week training and the nine week training in mid July 2023 and you can find all the details on my website:
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 89. This episode is for you if you're curious to understand what a senior account director does in a brand strategy agency.&nbsp;<br><br>I chat to Andy Kaye, senior account directory at Mr B &amp; Friends and we discuss:<br>-&nbsp; the importance of being proactive with clients and staying informed about industry trends<br>- share tips on staying up to date with your clients business<br>- discuss how often you should be looking at your forecast<br>- why and how to build strong client relationships that result in clients coming back to you<br>- and how to transform your internal briefing process to make it more experiential<br>- and lots more...&nbsp;<br><br>You're going to take away some great tips from this episode that you can go back to your agency and use. And if you're in an agency account management role and you're keen to be seen by your clients as more of an advisor than a reactive order taker, then check out the details of my account management training courses.&nbsp;<br><br>We are kicking off both the one week training and the nine week training in mid July 2023 and you can find all the details on my website:<br>https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2023 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/w6lmqy5w.mp3" length="47565761" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/77e38ad0-140e-11ee-b407-cf667de7d158/77e38d90-140e-11ee-a04f-576f22ad4106.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2378</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 89. This episode is for you if you're curious to understand what a senior account director does in a brand strategy agency. 

I chat to Andy Kaye, senior account director at Mr B &amp; Friends and we discuss:
-  the importance of being proactive with clients and staying informed about industry trends
- share tips on staying up to date with your clients business
- discuss how often you should be looking at your forecast
- why and how to build strong client relationships that result in clients coming back to you
- and how to transform your internal briefing process to make it more experiential
- and lots more... 

You're going to take away some great tips from this episode that you can go back to your agency and use. And if you're in an agency account management role and you're keen to be seen by your clients as more of an advisor than a reactive order taker, then check out the details of my account management training courses. 

We are kicking off both the one week training and the nine week training in mid July 2023 and you can find all the details on my website:
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 89. This episode is for you if you're curious to understand what a senior account director does in a brand strategy agency. 

I chat to Andy Kaye, senior account director at Mr B &amp; Friends and we discuss:
-  the importance of being proactive with clients and staying informed about industry trends
- share tips on staying up to date with your clients business
- discuss how often you should be looking at your forecast
- why and how to build strong client relationships that result in clients coming back to you
- and how to transform your internal briefing process to make it more experiential
- and lots more... 

You're going to take away some great tips from this episode that you can go back to your agency and use. And if you're in an agency account management role and you're keen to be seen by your clients as more of an advisor than a reactive order taker, then check out the details of my account management training courses. 

We are kicking off both the one week training and the nine week training in mid July 2023 and you can find all the details on my website:
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Agency processes and client management with Rob Da Costa</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/l8qzwm4n-agency-processes-and-client-management-with-rob-da-costa</link>
      <itunes:title>Agency processes and client management with Rob Da Costa</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>88</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">80nnv6x0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 88. My guest is Rob Da Costa, an agency growth consultant from Da Costa Coaching. We discuss a myriad of topics, including:

- the process for hiring the right account manager at your agency
- examples of how to set client expectations and boundaries
- why having a written scope of work is key to successful project delivery
- and Rob's thoughts in general on the agency landscape and the future of agencies.

During our chat, one theme keeps emerging, which is ensuring you have the right systems and processes in place in your agency. You’ll therefore understand why he wrote ‘The Self Running Agency’, which free to download on his website. https://dacostacoaching.co.uk/</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 88. My guest is Rob Da Costa, an agency growth consultant from Da Costa Coaching. We discuss a myriad of topics, including:<br><br>- the process for hiring the right account manager at your agency<br>- examples of how to set client expectations and boundaries<br>- why having a written scope of work is key to successful project delivery<br>- and Rob's thoughts in general on the agency landscape and the future of agencies.<br><br>During our chat, one theme keeps emerging, which is ensuring you have the right systems and processes in place in your agency. You’ll therefore understand why he wrote ‘The Self Running Agency’, which free to download on his website. https://dacostacoaching.co.uk/</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 06 Jun 2023 05:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8qy017k8.mp3" length="59046577" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/185b9e00-00ae-11ee-813c-b5a3845f9767/185b9f90-00ae-11ee-aa0c-bb08abefe5b6.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2952</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 88. My guest is Rob Da Costa, an agency growth consultant from Da Costa Coaching. We discuss a myriad of topics, including:

- the process for hiring the right account manager at your agency
- examples of how to set client expectations and boundaries
- why having a written scope of work is key to successful project delivery
- and Rob's thoughts in general on the agency landscape and the future of agencies.

During our chat, one theme keeps emerging, which is ensuring you have the right systems and processes in place in your agency. You’ll therefore understand why he wrote ‘The Self Running Agency’, which free to download on his website. https://dacostacoaching.co.uk/</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 88. My guest is Rob Da Costa, an agency growth consultant from Da Costa Coaching. We discuss a myriad of topics, including:

- the process for hiring the right account manager at your agency
- examples of how to set client expectations and boundaries
- why having a written scope of work is key to successful project delivery
- and Rob's thoughts in general on the agency landscape and the future of agencies.

During our chat, one theme keeps emerging, which is ensuring you have the right systems and processes in place in your agency. You’ll therefore understand why he wrote ‘The Self Running Agency’, which free to download on his website. https://dacostacoaching.co.uk/</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>marketing, agency growth, client management, planning</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to negotiate with procurement, with Mike Lander</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/18pzv3q8-how-to-negotiate-with-procurement-with-mike-lander</link>
      <itunes:title>How to negotiate with procurement, with Mike Lander</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>87</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">z1rm3x80</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 87.  In this episode, I chat to Mike Lander, CEO of Piscari, a former procurement director who now assists sales teams in negotiating with procurement departments. 
Mike and I discuss:
-  the common mistakes agencies make when negotiating with procurement
- what procurement looks for when selecting an agency
-  and why they are interested in your financials. 

We also dive into a five-step framework to help you negotiate more effectively and shed light on some questionable tactics employed by less experienced procurement professionals. 

During this conversation, you'll gain valuable insights into the world of procurement negotiations. Be sure to follow Mike on LinkedIn and grab a free copy of his guide from his website.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikelander/
https://piscari.com/negotiation-guide/</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 87.&nbsp; In this episode, I chat to Mike Lander, CEO of Piscari, a former procurement director who now assists sales teams in negotiating with procurement departments.&nbsp;<br>Mike and I discuss:<br>-&nbsp; the common mistakes agencies make when negotiating with procurement<br>- what procurement looks for when selecting an agency<br>-&nbsp; and why they are interested in your financials.&nbsp;<br><br>We also dive into a five-step framework to help you negotiate more effectively and shed light on some questionable tactics employed by less experienced procurement professionals.&nbsp;<br><br>During this conversation, you'll gain valuable insights into the world of procurement negotiations. Be sure to follow Mike on LinkedIn and grab a free copy of his guide from his website.<br><br>https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikelander/<br>https://piscari.com/negotiation-guide/</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2023 10:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8vymz63w.mp3" length="56045108" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/41b883d0-f565-11ed-90fb-fb11a3a7d4a3/41b88520-f565-11ed-8ca9-1b87587f0dd4.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2802</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 87.  In this episode, I chat to Mike Lander, CEO of Piscari, a former procurement director who now assists sales teams in negotiating with procurement departments. 
Mike and I discuss:
-  the common mistakes agencies make when negotiating with procurement
- what procurement looks for when selecting an agency
-  and why they are interested in your financials. 

We also dive into a five-step framework to help you negotiate more effectively and shed light on some questionable tactics employed by less experienced procurement professionals. 

During this conversation, you'll gain valuable insights into the world of procurement negotiations. Be sure to follow Mike on LinkedIn and grab a free copy of his guide from his website.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikelander/
https://piscari.com/negotiation-guide/</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 87.  In this episode, I chat to Mike Lander, CEO of Piscari, a former procurement director who now assists sales teams in negotiating with procurement departments. 
Mike and I discuss:
-  the common mistakes agencies make when negotiating with procurement
- what procurement looks for when selecting an agency
-  and why they are interested in your financials. 

We also dive into a five-step framework to help you negotiate more effectively and shed light on some questionable tactics employed by less experienced procurement professionals. 

During this conversation, you'll gain valuable insights into the world of procurement negotiations. Be sure to follow Mike on LinkedIn and grab a free copy of his guide from his website.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikelander/
https://piscari.com/negotiation-guide/</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>marketing, procurement, contract negotiation, creative agency</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How a copywriting agency is embracing generative AI, with Konrad Sanders</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/x81v6mrn-how-a-copywriting-agency-is-embracing-generative-ai-with-konrad-sanders</link>
      <itunes:title>How a copywriting agency is embracing generative AI, with Konrad Sanders</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>86</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">71347kz0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 86, where I'm joined by Konrad Sanders, CEO of The Creative Copywriter agency, to discuss the impact of generative AI on copywriting. In this episode, we covered:

- How Konrad's team is adopting AI tools and the most useful tools they've found.
- The limitations of AI-written copy and what clients are saying about AI.
- Advice on managing the process of change within your team and integrating AI into your workflows.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/konradsanders/

If you're interested in exploring AI tools to speed up your workflow or want to keep up to date with how other account managers are using AI, sign up for my newsletter on my website at https://accountmanagementskills.com. 

Additionally, if you're considering account management training to add more value and grow your accounts, check out the details of my Account Accelerator programme here:https://accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator/</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 86, where I'm joined by Konrad Sanders, CEO of The Creative Copywriter agency, to discuss the impact of generative AI on copywriting. In this episode, we covered:<br><br>- How Konrad's team is adopting AI tools and the most useful tools they've found.<br>- The limitations of AI-written copy and what clients are saying about AI.<br>- Advice on managing the process of change within your team and integrating AI into your workflows.<br><br>https://www.linkedin.com/in/konradsanders/<br><br>If you're interested in exploring AI tools to speed up your workflow or want to keep up to date with how other account managers are using AI, sign up for my newsletter on my website at https://accountmanagementskills.com.&nbsp;<br><br>Additionally, if you're considering account management training to add more value and grow your accounts, check out the details of my Account Accelerator programme here:https://accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator/&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Thu, 04 May 2023 14:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8vym1pqw.mp3" length="55294871" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/3ee0c7d0-ea86-11ed-ba73-6bca820ec9f0/3ee0c940-ea86-11ed-9ef2-ddc8bf104cd7.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2764</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 86, where I'm joined by Konrad Sanders, CEO of The Creative Copywriter agency, to discuss the impact of generative AI on copywriting. In this episode, we covered:

- How Konrad's team is adopting AI tools and the most useful tools they've found.
- The limitations of AI-written copy and what clients are saying about AI.
- Advice on managing the process of change within your team and integrating AI into your workflows.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/konradsanders/

If you're interested in exploring AI tools to speed up your workflow or want to keep up to date with how other account managers are using AI, sign up for my newsletter on my website at https://accountmanagementskills.com. 

Additionally, if you're considering account management training to add more value and grow your accounts, check out the details of my Account Accelerator programme here:https://accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator/</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 86, where I'm joined by Konrad Sanders, CEO of The Creative Copywriter agency, to discuss the impact of generative AI on copywriting. In this episode, we covered:

- How Konrad's team is adopting AI tools and the most useful tools they've found.
- The limitations of AI-written copy and what clients are saying about AI.
- Advice on managing the process of change within your team and integrating AI into your workflows.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/konradsanders/

If you're interested in exploring AI tools to speed up your workflow or want to keep up to date with how other account managers are using AI, sign up for my newsletter on my website at https://accountmanagementskills.com. 

Additionally, if you're considering account management training to add more value and grow your accounts, check out the details of my Account Accelerator programme here:https://accountmanagementskills.com/account-accelerator/</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>generative AI, AI, copywriting, agency growth, chat gpt, workflow, creative agency</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How AMs &amp; PMs work together in an internal comms agency, with Lindsay McCleary &amp; Sara Forner Howland</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/1n3ll028-how-ams-pms-work-together-in-an-internal-comms-agency-with-lindsay-mccleary-sara-forner-howland</link>
      <itunes:title>How AMs &amp; PMs work together in an internal comms agency, with Lindsay McCleary &amp; Sara Forner Howland</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>85</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">m1j55kj0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 85. This episode is for you if you're interested in understanding how a project management team and an account management team work together in an internal communications agency.

Sara and Lindsay are heads of department at US-based Brilliant Ink. They joined me to talk through their years of experience running this model.

This episode could be interesting for you, if you're an account manager doing both project management and account management and you're curious to see how an agency separates them. It could be that you're a head of department and thinking about setting up this model to work for your agency and you want to know the nitty-gritty, because Lindsay and Sara really share all the details. 

They share:
why they did this in the first place
how it was working before 
how it's working now
who manages the client relationship and what does each role do 

If you're interested in finding out about account management training, I've just updated my website with all my courses and prices. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

I'm also launching a new training course, 'Managing Difficult Client Conversations'.  If you'd like to get onto the waitlist to be notified as soon as we go live, please use this link to register your interest: https://accountmanagementskills.activehosted.com/f/5</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 85. This episode is for you if you're interested in understanding how a project management team and an account management team work together in an internal communications agency.<br><br>Sara and Lindsay are heads of department at US-based Brilliant Ink. They joined me to talk through their years of experience running this model.<br><br>This episode could be interesting for you, if you're an account manager doing both project management and account management and you're curious to see how an agency separates them. It could be that you're a head of department and thinking about setting up this model to work for your agency and you want to know the nitty-gritty, because Lindsay and Sara really share all the details.&nbsp;<br><br>They share:</div><ul><li>why they did this in the first place</li><li>how it was working before&nbsp;</li><li>how it's working now</li><li>who manages the client relationship and what does each role do&nbsp;</li></ul><div><br>If you're interested in finding out about account management training, I've just updated my website with all my courses and prices. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com<br><br>I'm also launching a new training course, 'Managing Difficult Client Conversations'.&nbsp; If you'd like to get onto the waitlist to be notified as soon as we go live, please use this link to register your interest: https://accountmanagementskills.activehosted.com/f/5</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2023 10:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8k4yxy3w.mp3" length="67354038" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/4150d8c0-e2ae-11ed-bcc9-0fa1880c925d/4150dbc0-e2ae-11ed-a3ac-bbade9d6f15b.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>3367</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 85. This episode is for you if you're interested in understanding how a project management team and an account management team work together in an internal communications agency.

Sara and Lindsay are heads of department at US-based Brilliant Ink. They joined me to talk through their years of experience running this model.

This episode could be interesting for you, if you're an account manager doing both project management and account management and you're curious to see how an agency separates them. It could be that you're a head of department and thinking about setting up this model to work for your agency and you want to know the nitty-gritty, because Lindsay and Sara really share all the details. 

They share:
why they did this in the first place
how it was working before 
how it's working now
who manages the client relationship and what does each role do 

If you're interested in finding out about account management training, I've just updated my website with all my courses and prices. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

I'm also launching a new training course, 'Managing Difficult Client Conversations'.  If you'd like to get onto the waitlist to be notified as soon as we go live, please use this link to register your interest: https://accountmanagementskills.activehosted.com/f/5</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 85. This episode is for you if you're interested in understanding how a project management team and an account management team work together in an internal communications agency.

Sara and Lindsay are heads of department at US-based Brilliant Ink. They joined me to talk through their years of experience running this model.

This episode could be interesting for you, if you're an account manager doing both project management and account management and you're curious to see how an agency separates them. It could be that you're a head of department and thinking about setting up this model to work for your agency and you want to know the nitty-gritty, because Lindsay and Sara really share all the details. 

They share:
why they did this in the first place
how it was working before 
how it's working now
who manages the client relationship and what does each role do 

If you're interested in finding out about account management training, I've just updated my website with all my courses and prices. https://www.accountmanagementskills.com

I'm also launching a new training course, 'Managing Difficult Client Conversations'.  If you'd like to get onto the waitlist to be notified as soon as we go live, please use this link to register your interest: https://accountmanagementskills.activehosted.com/f/5</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What agencies need to know about generative AI, with Roy Murphy</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/x8yqvxm8-what-agencies-need-to-know-about-generative-ai-with-roy-murphy</link>
      <itunes:title>What agencies need to know about generative AI, with Roy Murphy</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>84</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">l04863n0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 84. If you're interested in the fast-changing world of generative AI, and how clients and agencies are using it, then you will love this conversation. Roy Murphy is the founder of Synthetic, an agency specialising in emerging technologies. 

Roy shares with me:
- the main pain points that generative AI is solving for clients, and how he's currently advising his clients. 
- what you need to know right now as an agency account manager about the AI industry
- how he thinks the AI landscape will evolve in the future
- and why agencies should be looking to partner with AI experts to help position themselves one step ahead of their clients. 

There are not many people in the agency world who have such a deep understanding of emerging tech, so I was very lucky to grab his time. Please do get in touch with him if you're keen to discuss any aspect of what we covered. 

If you'd like to talk to me about agency account management training, I've just updated my website to include three of the main courses that I run to help you retain and grow your existing client relationships. I'm also launching shortly a ‘managing difficult client conversations’ training. If you're an account manager and you'd like to be notified when this goes live, please sign up for my weekly newsletter, also via the website.
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 84. If you're interested in the fast-changing world of generative AI, and how clients and agencies are using it, then you will love this conversation. Roy Murphy is the founder of Synthetic, an agency specialising in emerging technologies. <br><br>Roy shares with me:<br>- the main pain points that generative AI is solving for clients, and how he's currently advising his clients. <br>- what you need to know right now as an agency account manager about the AI industry<br>- how he thinks the AI landscape will evolve in the future<br>- and why agencies should be looking to partner with AI experts to help position themselves one step ahead of their clients. <br><br>There are not many people in the agency world who have such a deep understanding of emerging tech, so I was very lucky to grab his time. Please do get in touch with him if you're keen to discuss any aspect of what we covered. <br><br>If you'd like to talk to me about agency account management training, I've just updated my website to include three of the main courses that I run to help you retain and grow your existing client relationships. I'm also launching shortly a ‘managing difficult client conversations’ training. If you're an account manager and you'd like to be notified when this goes live, please sign up for my weekly newsletter, also via the website.<br><a href="https://www.accountmanagementskills.com">https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</a></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 04 Apr 2023 08:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8x94jx9w.mp3" length="58604585" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/d4b60ef0-4235-11f1-8c8e-e3dfb9c08cb5/d4b61120-4235-11f1-bd3f-1f035553dd59.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2930</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 84. If you're interested in the fast-changing world of generative AI, and how clients and agencies are using it, then you will love this conversation. Roy Murphy is the founder of Synthetic, an agency specialising in emerging technologies. 

Roy shares with me:
- the main pain points that generative AI is solving for clients, and how he's currently advising his clients. 
- what you need to know right now as an agency account manager about the AI industry
- how he thinks the AI landscape will evolve in the future
- and why agencies should be looking to partner with AI experts to help position themselves one step ahead of their clients. 

There are not many people in the agency world who have such a deep understanding of emerging tech, so I was very lucky to grab his time. Please do get in touch with him if you're keen to discuss any aspect of what we covered. 

If you'd like to talk to me about agency account management training, I've just updated my website to include three of the main courses that I run to help you retain and grow your existing client relationships. I'm also launching shortly a ‘managing difficult client conversations’ training. If you're an account manager and you'd like to be notified when this goes live, please sign up for my weekly newsletter, also via the website.
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 84. If you're interested in the fast-changing world of generative AI, and how clients and agencies are using it, then you will love this conversation. Roy Murphy is the founder of Synthetic, an agency specialising in emerging technologies. 

Roy shares with me:
- the main pain points that generative AI is solving for clients, and how he's currently advising his clients. 
- what you need to know right now as an agency account manager about the AI industry
- how he thinks the AI landscape will evolve in the future
- and why agencies should be looking to partner with AI experts to help position themselves one step ahead of their clients. 

There are not many people in the agency world who have such a deep understanding of emerging tech, so I was very lucky to grab his time. Please do get in touch with him if you're keen to discuss any aspect of what we covered. 

If you'd like to talk to me about agency account management training, I've just updated my website to include three of the main courses that I run to help you retain and grow your existing client relationships. I'm also launching shortly a ‘managing difficult client conversations’ training. If you're an account manager and you'd like to be notified when this goes live, please sign up for my weekly newsletter, also via the website.
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How an AM and PM work together in a digital agency, with Kate Vines &amp; Kiorhte Aghoghogbe</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/4890z0rn-how-an-am-and-pm-work-together-in-a-digital-agency</link>
      <itunes:title>How an AM and PM work together in a digital agency, with Kate Vines &amp; Kiorhte Aghoghogbe</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>83</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">v174k4p0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 83. On this episode, we're talking about the split between the agency Account Manager and the agency Project Manager role, with Kate Vines and Kio Aghoghogbe from Hallam.

This is going to be particularly interesting for you if you're working in an agency with a hybrid account management role, you're doing both sides of the role currently, you might also be an agency owner who's looking at splitting the roles out and not really sure exactly how each function is going to work together. 

Kate and Kio from Hallam are brilliant at breaking down what they do. We talk about:
- how the roles and the skill sets are different
- how they work together on projects and retainers
- how they manage the client relationship
- what friction points can occur and how they overcome them
- their advice for agencies thinking of moving to an AM/PM model. 

As Kio says, the pure account management role is very much about understanding the client's business and market, looking proactively at how the agency can bring more value and having those client improvement conversations. And if that's something that you'd like to improve your skills in, you can go to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and book a quick call with me to see if training might be the right fit for you are a member of your team.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 83. On this episode, we're talking about the split between the agency Account Manager and the agency Project Manager role, with Kate Vines and Kio Aghoghogbe from Hallam.<br><br>This is going to be particularly interesting for you if you're working in an agency with a hybrid account management role, you're doing both sides of the role currently, you might also be an agency owner who's looking at splitting the roles out and not really sure exactly how each function is going to work together.&nbsp;<br><br>Kate and Kio from Harlem are brilliant at breaking down what they do. We talk about:<br>- how the roles and the skill sets are different<br>- how they work together on projects and retainers<br>- how they manage the client relationship<br>- what friction points can occur and how they overcome them<br>- their advice for agencies thinking of moving to an AM/PM model.&nbsp;<br><br>As Kio says, the pure account management role is very much about understanding the client's business and market, looking proactively at how the agency can bring more value and having those client improvement conversations. And if that's something that you'd like to improve your skills in, you can go to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and book a quick call with me to see if training might be the right fit for you are a member of your team.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 21 Mar 2023 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/w6lqrnlw.mp3" length="57534087" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/c27116b0-c73b-11ed-b608-27de9be6cc65/c2711820-c73b-11ed-a153-0d0028190afb.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2876</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 83. On this episode, we're talking about the split between the agency Account Manager and the agency Project Manager role, with Kate Vines and Kio Aghoghogbe from Hallam.

This is going to be particularly interesting for you if you're working in an agency with a hybrid account management role, you're doing both sides of the role currently, you might also be an agency owner who's looking at splitting the roles out and not really sure exactly how each function is going to work together. 

Kate and Kio from Hallam are brilliant at breaking down what they do. We talk about:
- how the roles and the skill sets are different
- how they work together on projects and retainers
- how they manage the client relationship
- what friction points can occur and how they overcome them
- their advice for agencies thinking of moving to an AM/PM model. 

As Kio says, the pure account management role is very much about understanding the client's business and market, looking proactively at how the agency can bring more value and having those client improvement conversations. And if that's something that you'd like to improve your skills in, you can go to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and book a quick call with me to see if training might be the right fit for you are a member of your team.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 83. On this episode, we're talking about the split between the agency Account Manager and the agency Project Manager role, with Kate Vines and Kio Aghoghogbe from Hallam.

This is going to be particularly interesting for you if you're working in an agency with a hybrid account management role, you're doing both sides of the role currently, you might also be an agency owner who's looking at splitting the roles out and not really sure exactly how each function is going to work together. 

Kate and Kio from Hallam are brilliant at breaking down what they do. We talk about:
- how the roles and the skill sets are different
- how they work together on projects and retainers
- how they manage the client relationship
- what friction points can occur and how they overcome them
- their advice for agencies thinking of moving to an AM/PM model. 

As Kio says, the pure account management role is very much about understanding the client's business and market, looking proactively at how the agency can bring more value and having those client improvement conversations. And if that's something that you'd like to improve your skills in, you can go to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com and book a quick call with me to see if training might be the right fit for you are a member of your team.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How AI helps account managers improve their communication skills</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/mn43mvl8-how-ai-helps-account-managers-improve-their-communication-skills</link>
      <itunes:title>How AI helps account managers improve their communication skills</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>82</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">x06864r0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 82. Emerging technologies like AI are taking the world by storm at the moment with the likes of Microsoft's Chat GPT, for example, and today's guest, Soumya Mohan, is the Co-founder of Poised, an AI-driven app that I've been using for a couple of months now. 

I believe it's pretty game changing for account managers to help them communicate on a much more deeper level with their clients. I invited Soumya to talk to me about it and share the features and benefits so you can decide for yourself. 

When using video conferencing tools like Teams, Zoom and Google Hangouts, it really is a very discreet and helpful way to improve your communication skills, and it will enable you to connect with your clients on a much deeper level. 

If you're in an agency account manager or director role, and you'd like to enhance your client growth skills, check out my Account Accelerator training programme. It's specifically designed to help you in your agency role and will give you a more systematic approach to client retention and growth. You can find all the details on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills./training. You can also schedule a short call with me if you'd like to chat about whether this is a good fit for you.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 82. Emerging technologies like AI are taking the world by storm at the moment with the likes of Microsoft's Chat GPT, for example, and today's guest, Soumya Mohan, is the Co-founder of Poised, an AI-driven app that I've been using for a couple of months now.&nbsp;<br><br>I believe it's pretty game changing for account managers to help them communicate on a much more deeper level with their clients. I invited Soumya to talk to me about it and share the features and benefits so you can decide for yourself.&nbsp;<br><br>When using video conferencing tools like Teams, Zoom and Google Hangouts, it really is a very discreet and helpful way to improve your communication skills, and it will enable you to connect with your clients on a much deeper level.&nbsp;<br><br>If you're in an agency account manager or director role, and you'd like to enhance your client growth skills, check out my Account Accelerator training programme. It's specifically designed to help you in your agency role and will give you a more systematic approach to client retention and growth. You can find all the details on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills./training. You can also schedule a short call with me if you'd like to chat about whether this is a good fit for you.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 07 Mar 2023 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/w16nrk08.mp3" length="38837728" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/5fc08c50-b9c9-11ed-8041-edd7079dd811/5fc098b0-b9c9-11ed-b0be-afad9ca64ffd.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>1941</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 82. Emerging technologies like AI are taking the world by storm at the moment with the likes of Microsoft's Chat GPT, for example, and today's guest, Soumya Mohan, is the Co-founder of Poised, an AI-driven app that I've been using for a couple of months now. 

I believe it's pretty game changing for account managers to help them communicate on a much more deeper level with their clients. I invited Soumya to talk to me about it and share the features and benefits so you can decide for yourself. 

When using video conferencing tools like Teams, Zoom and Google Hangouts, it really is a very discreet and helpful way to improve your communication skills, and it will enable you to connect with your clients on a much deeper level. 

If you're in an agency account manager or director role, and you'd like to enhance your client growth skills, check out my Account Accelerator training programme. It's specifically designed to help you in your agency role and will give you a more systematic approach to client retention and growth. You can find all the details on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills./training. You can also schedule a short call with me if you'd like to chat about whether this is a good fit for you.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 82. Emerging technologies like AI are taking the world by storm at the moment with the likes of Microsoft's Chat GPT, for example, and today's guest, Soumya Mohan, is the Co-founder of Poised, an AI-driven app that I've been using for a couple of months now. 

I believe it's pretty game changing for account managers to help them communicate on a much more deeper level with their clients. I invited Soumya to talk to me about it and share the features and benefits so you can decide for yourself. 

When using video conferencing tools like Teams, Zoom and Google Hangouts, it really is a very discreet and helpful way to improve your communication skills, and it will enable you to connect with your clients on a much deeper level. 

If you're in an agency account manager or director role, and you'd like to enhance your client growth skills, check out my Account Accelerator training programme. It's specifically designed to help you in your agency role and will give you a more systematic approach to client retention and growth. You can find all the details on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills./training. You can also schedule a short call with me if you'd like to chat about whether this is a good fit for you.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to lead your clients into the future, with Kathryn Strachan</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/5nz45v2n-how-to-lead-your-clients-into-the-future-with-kathryn-strachan</link>
      <itunes:title>How to lead your clients into the future, with Kathryn Strachan</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>81</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">80z6q9p0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 81. This episode is for you if you're looking for inspiration on how to enhance your clients' experience and lead them into the future. 

Katherine Strachan is the founder of CopyHouse, an award winning B2B content marketing agency for fast growing FinTech and Tech brands. In 2020, Kathryn was a freelance copywriter and just three years later, in February 2023, she has an agency with a team of 25 people. Her client base includes some of the biggest names in Tech and FinTech. 

She shares with me:
- how she built the agency so fast
- what she thinks it takes if you want to do the same
- what's happening right now in the tech space and how she's supporting her tech clients
- why she's building a client advocacy programme
- how she's leading her clients into the future through education, and lots, lots more.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 81. This episode is for you if you're looking for inspiration on how to enhance your clients' experience and lead them into the future.&nbsp;<br><br>Katherine Strachan is the founder of Copy House, an award winning B2B content marketing agency for fast growing FinTech and Tech brands. In 2020, Kathryn was a freelance copywriter and just three years later, in February 2023, she has an agency with a team of 25 people. Her client base includes some of the biggest names in Tech and FinTech.&nbsp;<br><br>She shares with me:<br>- how she built the agency so fast<br>- what she thinks it takes if you want to do the same<br>- what's happening right now in the tech space and how she's supporting her tech clients<br>- why she's building a client advocacy programme<br>- how she's leading her clients into the future through education, and lots, lots more.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2023 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/87pqn7xw.mp3" length="49140944" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/7dba4f90-ac8c-11ed-adbe-97ff04c3525a/7dba5100-ac8c-11ed-baa5-cd271332e63c.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2456</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 81. This episode is for you if you're looking for inspiration on how to enhance your clients' experience and lead them into the future. 

Katherine Strachan is the founder of CopyHouse, an award winning B2B content marketing agency for fast growing FinTech and Tech brands. In 2020, Kathryn was a freelance copywriter and just three years later, in February 2023, she has an agency with a team of 25 people. Her client base includes some of the biggest names in Tech and FinTech. 

She shares with me:
- how she built the agency so fast
- what she thinks it takes if you want to do the same
- what's happening right now in the tech space and how she's supporting her tech clients
- why she's building a client advocacy programme
- how she's leading her clients into the future through education, and lots, lots more.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 81. This episode is for you if you're looking for inspiration on how to enhance your clients' experience and lead them into the future. 

Katherine Strachan is the founder of CopyHouse, an award winning B2B content marketing agency for fast growing FinTech and Tech brands. In 2020, Kathryn was a freelance copywriter and just three years later, in February 2023, she has an agency with a team of 25 people. Her client base includes some of the biggest names in Tech and FinTech. 

She shares with me:
- how she built the agency so fast
- what she thinks it takes if you want to do the same
- what's happening right now in the tech space and how she's supporting her tech clients
- why she's building a client advocacy programme
- how she's leading her clients into the future through education, and lots, lots more.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Agency mergers and acquisitions, with Mark Sainthill</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/286jzy18-agency-mergers-and-acquisitions-with-mark-sainthill</link>
      <itunes:title>Agency mergers and acquisitions, with Mark Sainthill</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>80</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">j1248w21</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 80. My guest is Mark Sainthill, an agency M&amp;A expert. 

If you're an agency owner, you're thinking about selling either now or at some point in the future, Mark talked about the main things you need to consider if you want to sell and why market conditions and timing are really key. 

He also talked about what's most attractive to a potential buyer, and the actual process of selling. We discussed the future, and why agencies need to keep evolving their services to keep ahead of changing data protection rules, and helping clients explore different advertising channels. 

If you want to know what your agency could be worth, or if now could be a good time to sell, contact Mark on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-sainthill/
or perhaps get in touch with one of the team at Cactus: https://www.cact.us

If you have an account manager in your team, or perhaps you are an account manager and you're looking to upskill, my next agency Account Accelerator (TM) training programme starts on March 28th 2023.  You can read more here: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 80. My guest is Mark Sainthill, an agency M&amp;A expert.&nbsp;<br><br>If you're an agency owner, you're thinking about selling either now or at some point in the future, Mark talked about the main things you need to consider if you want to sell and why market conditions and timing are really key.&nbsp;<br><br>He also talked about what's most attractive to a potential buyer, and the actual process of selling. We discussed the future, and why agencies need to keep evolving their services to keep ahead of changing data protection rules, and helping clients explore different advertising channels.&nbsp;<br><br>If you want to know what your agency could be worth, or if now could be a good time to sell, contact Mark on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-sainthill/<br>or perhaps get in touch with one of the team at Cactus: https://www.cact.us<br><br>If you have an account manager in your team, or perhaps you are an account manager and you're looking to upskill, my next agency Account Accelerator (TM) training programme starts on March 28th 2023.&nbsp; You can read more here: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2023 07:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/wrjvjzpw.mp3" length="44995312" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/19df65e0-a623-11ed-9ffd-67d7773b1ebb/19df6750-a623-11ed-aaa6-29ce9ffc6bb6.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2249</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 80. My guest is Mark Sainthill, an agency M&amp;A expert. 

If you're an agency owner, you're thinking about selling either now or at some point in the future, Mark talked about the main things you need to consider if you want to sell and why market conditions and timing are really key. 

He also talked about what's most attractive to a potential buyer, and the actual process of selling. We discussed the future, and why agencies need to keep evolving their services to keep ahead of changing data protection rules, and helping clients explore different advertising channels. 

If you want to know what your agency could be worth, or if now could be a good time to sell, contact Mark on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-sainthill/
or perhaps get in touch with one of the team at Cactus: https://www.cact.us

If you have an account manager in your team, or perhaps you are an account manager and you're looking to upskill, my next agency Account Accelerator (TM) training programme starts on March 28th 2023.  You can read more here: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 80. My guest is Mark Sainthill, an agency M&amp;A expert. 

If you're an agency owner, you're thinking about selling either now or at some point in the future, Mark talked about the main things you need to consider if you want to sell and why market conditions and timing are really key. 

He also talked about what's most attractive to a potential buyer, and the actual process of selling. We discussed the future, and why agencies need to keep evolving their services to keep ahead of changing data protection rules, and helping clients explore different advertising channels. 

If you want to know what your agency could be worth, or if now could be a good time to sell, contact Mark on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-sainthill/
or perhaps get in touch with one of the team at Cactus: https://www.cact.us

If you have an account manager in your team, or perhaps you are an account manager and you're looking to upskill, my next agency Account Accelerator (TM) training programme starts on March 28th 2023.  You can read more here: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>mergers, acquisitions, creative agency, account manager</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What can building a personal brand do for you? with Ash Jones</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/vnw6ywl8-what-can-building-a-personal-brand-do-for-you-with-ash-jones</link>
      <itunes:title>What can building a personal brand do for you? with Ash Jones</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>79</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">81xp5k81</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 79. We're talking about personal branding, what it is, what it's not, and why my guest thinks many people are approaching it in the wrong way. Who better to talk about this topic than the founder of personal branding agency Great Influence, Ash Jones. 

Ash is the person who started working with Steven Bartlett on his personal brand when he founded his social media agency, Social Chain. Steven has  gone on to become one of the most influential voices in entrepreneurship. 

If this makes you think about your own personal brand, whether you're an agency owner, or agency account manager, and if you are an agency account manager and you've never received any formal training in account management, you might like to read more about my Account Accelerator training on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 79. We're talking about personal branding, what it is, what it's not, and why my guest thinks many people are approaching it in the wrong way. Who better to talk about this topic than the founder of personal branding agency Great Influence, Ash Jones.&nbsp;<br><br>Ash is the person who started working with Steven Bartlett on his personal brand when he founded his social media agency, Social Chain. Steven has&nbsp; gone on to become one of the most influential voices in entrepreneurship.&nbsp;<br><br>If this makes you think about your own personal brand, whether you're an agency owner, or agency account manager, and if you are an agency account manager and you've never received any formal training in account management, you might like to read more about my Account Accelerator training on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2023 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/86l5z3n8.mp3" length="48860389" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/68f1dde0-9b16-11ed-ae92-4b6b5519e2d7/68f1df10-9b16-11ed-861e-8fe467d3ac62.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2442</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 79. We're talking about personal branding, what it is, what it's not, and why my guest thinks many people are approaching it in the wrong way. Who better to talk about this topic than the founder of personal branding agency Great Influence, Ash Jones. 

Ash is the person who started working with Steven Bartlett on his personal brand when he founded his social media agency, Social Chain. Steven has  gone on to become one of the most influential voices in entrepreneurship. 

If this makes you think about your own personal brand, whether you're an agency owner, or agency account manager, and if you are an agency account manager and you've never received any formal training in account management, you might like to read more about my Account Accelerator training on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 79. We're talking about personal branding, what it is, what it's not, and why my guest thinks many people are approaching it in the wrong way. Who better to talk about this topic than the founder of personal branding agency Great Influence, Ash Jones. 

Ash is the person who started working with Steven Bartlett on his personal brand when he founded his social media agency, Social Chain. Steven has  gone on to become one of the most influential voices in entrepreneurship. 

If this makes you think about your own personal brand, whether you're an agency owner, or agency account manager, and if you are an agency account manager and you've never received any formal training in account management, you might like to read more about my Account Accelerator training on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Dealing with adversity as an agency owner, with Rebecca McIntyre-Smith</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/2n6v6vln-dealing-with-adversity-as-an-agency-owner-with-rebecca-mcintyre-smith</link>
      <itunes:title>Dealing with adversity as an agency owner, with Rebecca McIntyre-Smith</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>78</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">j02393l1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 78. Today's episode is for you if you're an agency owner, busy running an agency, but also facing challenge or adversity in your private life. 

Rebecca McIntyre-Smith is director of digital agency Primate, and founder of the Lemur Foundation. She has a remarkably touching story of tragedy, adversity and resilience. She also shares her practical tips for other agency owners. If you'd like to be a guest on Rebecca's own podcast to tell your story, then you can contact her on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebeccamcintyresmith/
https://www.lemurfoundation.org/about

And if you're listening to this at the beginning of 2023, and you want this year to be the year that you not only retain your agency accounts, but you grow your accounts, you can also connect with me on LinkedIn and let's talk about training for either you in your account management role, or a member of your team. You can also visit my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 78. Today's episode is for you if you're an agency owner, busy running an agency, but also facing challenge or adversity in your private life. <br><br>Rebecca McIntyre-Smith is director of digital agency Primate, and founder of the Lemur Foundation. She has a remarkably touching story of tragedy, adversity and resilience. She also shares her practical tips for other agency owners. If you'd like to be a guest on Rebecca's own podcast to tell your story, then you can contact her on LinkedIn at <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebeccamcintyresmith/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebeccamcintyresmith/</a><br><br><a href="https://www.lemurfoundation.org/about">https://www.lemurfoundation.org/about</a><br><br>And if you're listening to this at the beginning of 2023, and you want this year to be the year that you not only retain your agency accounts, but you grow your accounts, you can also connect with me on LinkedIn and let's talk about training for either you in your account management role, or a member of your team. You can also visit my website: <a href="https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training">https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training</a></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2023 14:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/wmkzxpjw.mp3" length="55100520" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/e296fc40-8c3c-11ed-88fd-eb15885f8e3a/e296fda0-8c3c-11ed-887e-03b532bd1ea8.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2754</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 78. Today's episode is for you if you're an agency owner, busy running an agency, but also facing challenge or adversity in your private life. 

Rebecca McIntyre-Smith is director of digital agency Primate, and founder of the Lemur Foundation. She has a remarkably touching story of tragedy, adversity and resilience. She also shares her practical tips for other agency owners. If you'd like to be a guest on Rebecca's own podcast to tell your story, then you can contact her on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebeccamcintyresmith/
https://www.lemurfoundation.org/about

And if you're listening to this at the beginning of 2023, and you want this year to be the year that you not only retain your agency accounts, but you grow your accounts, you can also connect with me on LinkedIn and let's talk about training for either you in your account management role, or a member of your team. You can also visit my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 78. Today's episode is for you if you're an agency owner, busy running an agency, but also facing challenge or adversity in your private life. 

Rebecca McIntyre-Smith is director of digital agency Primate, and founder of the Lemur Foundation. She has a remarkably touching story of tragedy, adversity and resilience. She also shares her practical tips for other agency owners. If you'd like to be a guest on Rebecca's own podcast to tell your story, then you can contact her on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebeccamcintyresmith/
https://www.lemurfoundation.org/about

And if you're listening to this at the beginning of 2023, and you want this year to be the year that you not only retain your agency accounts, but you grow your accounts, you can also connect with me on LinkedIn and let's talk about training for either you in your account management role, or a member of your team. You can also visit my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to market your agency business, with Dan Archer</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/l8q66y6n-how-to-market-your-agency-business-with-dan-archer</link>
      <itunes:title>How to market your agency business, with Dan Archer</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>77</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">80nqq5q1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 77. On this episode, I chat to Dan Archer, a marketing expert for agencies. 
This episode is packed full of practical tips to help you with your own agency's marketing. Dan shares with me:
- the biggest challenges facing agencies when it comes to marketing their services
- practical and actionable advice for how to approach it
- what the most successful agencies right now are doing to market themselves
- and why you don't necessarily have to be the agency personality on LinkedIn. 

If you're not already a member of the free Agencynomics community, then go to https://agencynomics.com. See all the benefits of joining, it's absolutely free and for the value that you receive, you will not be disappointed.
Growing your existing accounts is one of the most overlooked sources of new revenue. If your account managers are proactively looking for ways to help your clients reach their goals, you will grow your revenue too. So if you have one or more account managers in your team and you want to make sure that they have the skills to retain and grow their accounts, then make sure you're setting them up for success by investing in formal training. You'll find more details about my training programmes on my website https://www.account management skills.com/training. You can also book a quick call with me to talk about your specific needs.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 77. On this episode, I chat to Dan Archer, a marketing expert for agencies.&nbsp;<br>This episode is packed full of practical tips to help you with your own agency's marketing. Dan shares with me:<br>- the biggest challenges facing agencies when it comes to marketing their services<br>- practical and actionable advice for how to approach it<br>- what the most successful agencies right now are doing to market themselves<br>- and why you don't necessarily have to be the agency personality on LinkedIn.&nbsp;<br><br>If you're not already a member of the free Agencynomics community, then go to https://agencynomics.com. See all the benefits of joining, it's absolutely free and for the value that you receive, you will not be disappointed.<br><br>Growing your existing accounts is one of the most overlooked sources of new revenue. If your account managers are proactively looking for ways to help your clients reach their goals, you will grow your revenue too. So if you have one or more account managers in your team and you want to make sure that they have the skills to retain and grow their accounts, then make sure you're setting them up for success by investing in formal training. You'll find more details about my training programmes on my website https://www.account management skills.com/training. You can also book a quick call with me to talk about your specific needs.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2022 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/8x9z14nw.mp3" length="55661630" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/b75bca30-7d45-11ed-9a4d-61752958e307/b75bceb0-7d45-11ed-a6d4-cf853f2a8b8c.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2782</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 77. On this episode, I chat to Dan Archer, a marketing expert for agencies. 
This episode is packed full of practical tips to help you with your own agency's marketing. Dan shares with me:
- the biggest challenges facing agencies when it comes to marketing their services
- practical and actionable advice for how to approach it
- what the most successful agencies right now are doing to market themselves
- and why you don't necessarily have to be the agency personality on LinkedIn. 

If you're not already a member of the free Agencynomics community, then go to https://agencynomics.com. See all the benefits of joining, it's absolutely free and for the value that you receive, you will not be disappointed.
Growing your existing accounts is one of the most overlooked sources of new revenue. If your account managers are proactively looking for ways to help your clients reach their goals, you will grow your revenue too. So if you have one or more account managers in your team and you want to make sure that they have the skills to retain and grow their accounts, then make sure you're setting them up for success by investing in formal training. You'll find more details about my training programmes on my website https://www.account management skills.com/training. You can also book a quick call with me to talk about your specific needs.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 77. On this episode, I chat to Dan Archer, a marketing expert for agencies. 
This episode is packed full of practical tips to help you with your own agency's marketing. Dan shares with me:
- the biggest challenges facing agencies when it comes to marketing their services
- practical and actionable advice for how to approach it
- what the most successful agencies right now are doing to market themselves
- and why you don't necessarily have to be the agency personality on LinkedIn. 

If you're not already a member of the free Agencynomics community, then go to https://agencynomics.com. See all the benefits of joining, it's absolutely free and for the value that you receive, you will not be disappointed.
Growing your existing accounts is one of the most overlooked sources of new revenue. If your account managers are proactively looking for ways to help your clients reach their goals, you will grow your revenue too. So if you have one or more account managers in your team and you want to make sure that they have the skills to retain and grow their accounts, then make sure you're setting them up for success by investing in formal training. You'll find more details about my training programmes on my website https://www.account management skills.com/training. You can also book a quick call with me to talk about your specific needs.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to raise your account management game (part two), with Jenny Plant</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/28x4lqz8-how-to-raise-your-account-management-game-part-two-with-jenny-plant</link>
      <itunes:title>How to raise your account management game (part two), with Jenny Plant</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>76</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">60mry3k1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 76. This is part two of a two part episode about raising your account management game. 
If you haven't listened to part one, I'd recommend you go back and give it a listen, it's episode 74. 
This two part series is relevant for you if you're in a more senior account manager role, and you want to either be promoted to account director, and you need to know what you need to do to get there, and you don't understand what tasks you need to do, how you need to be behaving differently to get that promotion. 
You might be sitting there frustrated that you aren't being recognised by your agency. So you want to raise your profile, or you're not really sure what you can do to be more effective in your account management role.
I hope you enjoy this episode. If you'd like to raise your account management game, increase your confidence with your clients, add more value to your clients and be seen more as that trusted advisor that an reactive order taker, check out the details of my Account Accelerator programme. From January 2023, we not only have a nine week programme, where I work with you to help you not only with the core training principles, but also to implement what you've learned, we also have a taster version, which is a one week format. You work with me for 3 x 90 minute sessions over one week and you also get access to my online programme. Once you've been through that programme, you can join me in my Account Academy where you can connect with other people, and you have ongoing support with me. If any of this sounds interesting for either you or a member of your team, then go over to my website www.accountmanagementskills.com/training.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 76. This is part two of a two part episode about raising your account management game.&nbsp;<br>If you haven't listened to part one, I'd recommend you go back and give it a listen, it's episode 74.&nbsp;<br>This two part series is relevant for you if you're in a more senior account manager role, and you want to either be promoted to account director, and you need to know what you need to do to get there, and you don't understand what tasks you need to do, how you need to be behaving differently to get that promotion.&nbsp;<br>You might be sitting there frustrated that you aren't being recognised by your agency. So you want to raise your profile, or you're not really sure what you can do to be more effective in your account management role.<br>I hope you enjoy this episode. If you'd like to raise your account management game, increase your confidence with your clients, add more value to your clients and be seen more as that trusted advisor that an reactive order taker, check out the details of my Account Accelerator programme. From January 2023, we not only have a nine week programme, where I work with you to help you not only with the core training principles, but also to implement what you've learned, we also have a taster version, which is a one week format. You work with me for 3 x 90 minute sessions over one week and you also get access to my online programme. Once you've been through that programme, you can join me in my Account Academy where you can connect with other people, and you have ongoing support with me. If any of this sounds interesting for either you or a member of your team, then go over to my website www.accountmanagementskills.com/training.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2022 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/w53vlx5w.mp3" length="29236161" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/2648d040-7186-11ed-ab15-9fe3339a597a/2648d1b0-7186-11ed-beaf-d5abfde9b76a.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>1461</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 76. This is part two of a two part episode about raising your account management game. 
If you haven't listened to part one, I'd recommend you go back and give it a listen, it's episode 74. 
This two part series is relevant for you if you're in a more senior account manager role, and you want to either be promoted to account director, and you need to know what you need to do to get there, and you don't understand what tasks you need to do, how you need to be behaving differently to get that promotion. 
You might be sitting there frustrated that you aren't being recognised by your agency. So you want to raise your profile, or you're not really sure what you can do to be more effective in your account management role.
I hope you enjoy this episode. If you'd like to raise your account management game, increase your confidence with your clients, add more value to your clients and be seen more as that trusted advisor that an reactive order taker, check out the details of my Account Accelerator programme. From January 2023, we not only have a nine week programme, where I work with you to help you not only with the core training principles, but also to implement what you've learned, we also have a taster version, which is a one week format. You work with me for 3 x 90 minute sessions over one week and you also get access to my online programme. Once you've been through that programme, you can join me in my Account Academy where you can connect with other people, and you have ongoing support with me. If any of this sounds interesting for either you or a member of your team, then go over to my website www.accountmanagementskills.com/training.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 76. This is part two of a two part episode about raising your account management game. 
If you haven't listened to part one, I'd recommend you go back and give it a listen, it's episode 74. 
This two part series is relevant for you if you're in a more senior account manager role, and you want to either be promoted to account director, and you need to know what you need to do to get there, and you don't understand what tasks you need to do, how you need to be behaving differently to get that promotion. 
You might be sitting there frustrated that you aren't being recognised by your agency. So you want to raise your profile, or you're not really sure what you can do to be more effective in your account management role.
I hope you enjoy this episode. If you'd like to raise your account management game, increase your confidence with your clients, add more value to your clients and be seen more as that trusted advisor that an reactive order taker, check out the details of my Account Accelerator programme. From January 2023, we not only have a nine week programme, where I work with you to help you not only with the core training principles, but also to implement what you've learned, we also have a taster version, which is a one week format. You work with me for 3 x 90 minute sessions over one week and you also get access to my online programme. Once you've been through that programme, you can join me in my Account Academy where you can connect with other people, and you have ongoing support with me. If any of this sounds interesting for either you or a member of your team, then go over to my website www.accountmanagementskills.com/training.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to lead a client services team in an award winning digital marketing agency, with Beth Sharma</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/q80424w8-how-to-lead-a-client-services-team-in-an-award-winning-digital-marketing-agency-with-beth-sharma</link>
      <itunes:title>How to lead a client services team in an award winning digital marketing agency, with Beth Sharma</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>75</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">p0kmrm80</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 75 with my guest Beth Sharma, Client Services Director at Hallam.  This episode is for you if you're interested in any of the following three areas:

You'd like to know what the Client Services Director does in an award-winning digital marketing agency.
You'd like some tips on how to get more client recommendations.
What it means for the client services team if you work for a B Corp agency.

After listening, check out Hallam's impressive profile on The Drum Recommends: https://www.recommendedagencies.com/hallam/

Given the current unstable economic climate, client retention for agencies is a real top priority right now. If you'd like some training for you or a member of your client-facing team in how to manage your client relationships, so you'll be seen more as a proficient proactive advisor, rather than a reactive audit taker, check out the details of my Account Accelerator programme (www.accountmanagementskills.com/training). 
You can book a quick call with me to see if it's the right fit.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 75 with my guest <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethanysharma/">Beth Sharma</a>, Client Services Director at Hallam.&nbsp; This episode is for you if you're interested in any of the following three areas:<br><br></div><ol><li>You'd like to know what the Client Services Director does in an award-winning digital marketing agency.</li><li>You'd like some tips on how to get more client recommendations.</li><li>What it means for the client services team if you work for a B Corp agency.</li></ol><div>After listening, check out Hallam's impressive profile on <a href="https://www.recommendedagencies.com/hallam/"><span style="background-color: highlight;">The Drum Recommends</span></a>.<br><br></div><div>Given the current unstable economic climate, client retention for agencies is a real top priority right now. If you'd like some training for you or a member of your client-facing team in how to manage your client relationships, so you'll be seen more as a proficient proactive advisor, rather than a reactive audit taker, check out the details of my <a href="https://accountmanagementskills.com/training/">Account Accelerator programme</a>. You can book a quick call with me to see if it's the right fit.<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2022 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/84v79n48.mp3" length="61250267" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/5f176520-674f-11ed-b1db-171b8698ce35/5f176680-674f-11ed-93be-8159dcd59343.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3062</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 75 with my guest Beth Sharma, Client Services Director at Hallam.  This episode is for you if you're interested in any of the following three areas:

You'd like to know what the Client Services Director does in an award-winning digital marketing agency.
You'd like some tips on how to get more client recommendations.
What it means for the client services team if you work for a B Corp agency.

After listening, check out Hallam's impressive profile on The Drum Recommends: https://www.recommendedagencies.com/hallam/

Given the current unstable economic climate, client retention for agencies is a real top priority right now. If you'd like some training for you or a member of your client-facing team in how to manage your client relationships, so you'll be seen more as a proficient proactive advisor, rather than a reactive audit taker, check out the details of my Account Accelerator programme (www.accountmanagementskills.com/training). 
You can book a quick call with me to see if it's the right fit.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 75 with my guest Beth Sharma, Client Services Director at Hallam.  This episode is for you if you're interested in any of the following three areas:

You'd like to know what the Client Services Director does in an award-winning digital marketing agency.
You'd like some tips on how to get more client recommendations.
What it means for the client services team if you work for a B Corp agency.

After listening, check out Hallam's impressive profile on The Drum Recommends: https://www.recommendedagencies.com/hallam/

Given the current unstable economic climate, client retention for agencies is a real top priority right now. If you'd like some training for you or a member of your client-facing team in how to manage your client relationships, so you'll be seen more as a proficient proactive advisor, rather than a reactive audit taker, check out the details of my Account Accelerator programme (www.accountmanagementskills.com/training). 
You can book a quick call with me to see if it's the right fit.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to raise your account management game (part one), with Jenny Plant</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/r8k15378-how-to-raise-your-account-management-game-part-one-with-jenny-plant</link>
      <itunes:title>How to raise your account management game (part one), with Jenny Plant</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>74</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">71w5k861</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 74, I get to speak to a lot of account managers who work in creative agencies. And I get a lot of questions about how they can progress their career, how they can be better at the account management role, and some of the key things that are most important when it comes to being more efficient and more effective in the role. 

And I sometimes get people who are frustrated that they're not progressing fast enough, that they really want to get promoted. Perhaps they're at senior account manager level, and they want to go to an account director. 

So this episode is for you, if you're in more of a senior account management role position in an agency, and you're looking to step up to raise your game.

Listen out for part two. 

If you'd like help raising your account management game, then take a look at my Account Accelerator programme, where you work with me for nine weeks. I help you with the tools, strategies, and all the support you need to implement a repeatable and systematic approach to account growth for your agency. For more details, please go to my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 74. I get to speak to a lot of account managers who work in creative agencies. And I get a lot of questions about how they can progress their career, how they can be better at the account management role, and some of the key things that are most important when it comes to being more efficient and more effective in the role.&nbsp;<br><br>And I sometimes get people who are frustrated that they're not progressing fast enough, that they really want to get promoted. Perhaps they're at senior account manager level, and they want to go to an account director.&nbsp;<br><br>So this episode is for you, if you're in more of a senior account management role position in an agency, and you're looking to step up to raise your game.<br><br>Listen out for part two.&nbsp;<br><br>If you'd like help raising your account management game, then take a look at my Account Accelerator programme, where you work with me for nine weeks. I help you with the tools, strategies, and all the support you need to implement a repeatable and systematic approach to account growth for your agency. For more details, please go to my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2022 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/816j5rvw.mp3" length="26739900" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/828d5890-5b83-11ed-a267-059a793a3b20/828d5a20-5b83-11ed-93be-cb83b425a7fc.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>1336</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 74, I get to speak to a lot of account managers who work in creative agencies. And I get a lot of questions about how they can progress their career, how they can be better at the account management role, and some of the key things that are most important when it comes to being more efficient and more effective in the role. 

And I sometimes get people who are frustrated that they're not progressing fast enough, that they really want to get promoted. Perhaps they're at senior account manager level, and they want to go to an account director. 

So this episode is for you, if you're in more of a senior account management role position in an agency, and you're looking to step up to raise your game.

Listen out for part two. 

If you'd like help raising your account management game, then take a look at my Account Accelerator programme, where you work with me for nine weeks. I help you with the tools, strategies, and all the support you need to implement a repeatable and systematic approach to account growth for your agency. For more details, please go to my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 74, I get to speak to a lot of account managers who work in creative agencies. And I get a lot of questions about how they can progress their career, how they can be better at the account management role, and some of the key things that are most important when it comes to being more efficient and more effective in the role. 

And I sometimes get people who are frustrated that they're not progressing fast enough, that they really want to get promoted. Perhaps they're at senior account manager level, and they want to go to an account director. 

So this episode is for you, if you're in more of a senior account management role position in an agency, and you're looking to step up to raise your game.

Listen out for part two. 

If you'd like help raising your account management game, then take a look at my Account Accelerator programme, where you work with me for nine weeks. I help you with the tools, strategies, and all the support you need to implement a repeatable and systematic approach to account growth for your agency. For more details, please go to my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to get referrals without asking, with Stacey Brown Randall</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/xn15q1pn-how-to-get-referrals-without-asking-with-stacey-brown-randall</link>
      <itunes:title>How to get referrals without asking, with Stacey Brown Randall</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>73</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">703n6wl1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 73. Are you asking your client for referrals to get more business, or does the very thought of it make you feel uncomfortable or awkward? If it does, you're definitely not alone. And you're also in for a treat because my guest, Stacey Brown Randall, will be providing guidance on how to get referrals without asking. 

Stacey has been helping agencies and service-based businesses for over 10 years, through her business, Building a Referable Business™, as the Award-Winning Author of Generating Business Referrals…Without Asking, and as Host of the Roadmap to Grow Your Business podcast.

In this chat, she provides lots of tips, lots of reframing, and lots of different ways that you can approach the process of referrals. We all know it's cheaper and easier to get referrals rather than chasing new business, so these are some really special tips that Stacey shares.

If you'd like to chat to me about account management training for you or your team, then head over to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training and book a no-obligation call with me.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 73. Are you asking your client for referrals to get more business, or does the very thought of it make you feel uncomfortable or awkward? If it does, you're definitely not alone. And you're also in for a treat because my guest, <a href="https://www.staceybrownrandall.com/">Stacey Brown Randall</a>, will be providing guidance on how to get referrals without asking. <br><br>Stacey has been helping agencies and service-based businesses for over 10 years, through her business, Building a Referable Business™, as the Award-Winning Author of Generating Business Referrals…Without Asking, and as Host of the Roadmap to Grow Your Business podcast.<br><br>In this chat, she provides lots of tips, lots of reframing, and lots of different ways that you can approach the process of referrals. We all know it's cheaper and easier to get referrals rather than chasing new business, so these are some really special tips that Stacey shares.<br>If you'd like to chat to me about account management training for you or your team, then head over to my website, <a href="https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training">https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training</a> and book a no-obligation call with me.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2022 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/87pplmkw.mp3" length="61008373" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/ff261280-4ae2-11ed-9f45-d33732b02a9f/ff261900-4ae2-11ed-980d-95b77dcdafd6.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3050</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 73. Are you asking your client for referrals to get more business, or does the very thought of it make you feel uncomfortable or awkward? If it does, you're definitely not alone. And you're also in for a treat because my guest, Stacey Brown Randall, will be providing guidance on how to get referrals without asking. 

Stacey has been helping agencies and service-based businesses for over 10 years, through her business, Building a Referable Business™, as the Award-Winning Author of Generating Business Referrals…Without Asking, and as Host of the Roadmap to Grow Your Business podcast.

In this chat, she provides lots of tips, lots of reframing, and lots of different ways that you can approach the process of referrals. We all know it's cheaper and easier to get referrals rather than chasing new business, so these are some really special tips that Stacey shares.

If you'd like to chat to me about account management training for you or your team, then head over to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training and book a no-obligation call with me.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 73. Are you asking your client for referrals to get more business, or does the very thought of it make you feel uncomfortable or awkward? If it does, you're definitely not alone. And you're also in for a treat because my guest, Stacey Brown Randall, will be providing guidance on how to get referrals without asking. 

Stacey has been helping agencies and service-based businesses for over 10 years, through her business, Building a Referable Business™, as the Award-Winning Author of Generating Business Referrals…Without Asking, and as Host of the Roadmap to Grow Your Business podcast.

In this chat, she provides lots of tips, lots of reframing, and lots of different ways that you can approach the process of referrals. We all know it's cheaper and easier to get referrals rather than chasing new business, so these are some really special tips that Stacey shares.

If you'd like to chat to me about account management training for you or your team, then head over to my website, https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training and book a no-obligation call with me.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Leading the client service team with radical candour, with Vicky Janaway</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/qn04505n-radical-candour-for-agencies-with-vicky-janaway</link>
      <itunes:title>Leading the client service team with radical candour, with Vicky Janaway</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>72</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">p1km5651</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 72. This chat is packed full of tips for how to be successful in the agency account management role as you transition through the levels,  to become a Client Services team leader.

Vicky Janaway joins me from The Gate agency and she shares with me:

what her role entails as client relationship lead
what it takes to be an excellent account manager and account team lead
some tips for making the transition from account manager to account director
why she follows the philosophy of Radical Candour when giving feedback to her team
and she also shares some great book recommendations for those who are keen to develop their own leadership skills.

Finally, I’m really excited to let you know that my Account Accelerator training programme is now a year long. So not only do you get nine weeks of training and coaching with me, but you'll also get to connect with your peers who have also been through the training. And you'll continue to receive ongoing support and training from me throughout the year. The next programme starts on 18th October 2022 and you can see all the details on my website at https://www.acccountmanagementskills.com/training. You can book in a no-obligation 20 minute call with me, to see if the training is the right fit for you or your team.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 72. This chat is packed full of tips for how to be successful in the agency account management role as you transition through the levels,&nbsp; to become a Client Services team leader.<br><br></div><div>Vicky Janaway joins me from The Gate agency and she shares with me:<br><br></div><ul><li>what her role entails as client relationship lead</li><li>what it takes to be an excellent account manager and account team lead</li><li>some tips for making the transition from account manager to account director</li><li>why she follows the philosophy of Radical Candour when giving feedback to her team</li><li>and she also shares some great book recommendations for those who are keen to develop their own leadership skills.</li></ul><div><br>Finally, I’m really excited to let you know that my Account Accelerator training programme is now a year long. So not only do you get nine weeks of training and coaching with me, but you'll also get to connect with your peers who have also been through the training. And you'll continue to receive ongoing support and training from me throughout the year. The next programme starts on 18th October 2022 and you can see all the details on my website at https://www.acccountmanagementskills.com/training. You can book in a no-obligation 20 minute call with me, to see if the training is the right fit for you or your team.&nbsp;<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2022 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/w0vv610w.mp3" length="57750381" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/af149ff0-42f5-11ed-8ae4-6f59f82a4785/af14a200-42f5-11ed-99af-f9329a67d2ae.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2887</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 72. This chat is packed full of tips for how to be successful in the agency account management role as you transition through the levels,  to become a Client Services team leader.

Vicky Janaway joins me from The Gate agency and she shares with me:

what her role entails as client relationship lead
what it takes to be an excellent account manager and account team lead
some tips for making the transition from account manager to account director
why she follows the philosophy of Radical Candour when giving feedback to her team
and she also shares some great book recommendations for those who are keen to develop their own leadership skills.

Finally, I’m really excited to let you know that my Account Accelerator training programme is now a year long. So not only do you get nine weeks of training and coaching with me, but you'll also get to connect with your peers who have also been through the training. And you'll continue to receive ongoing support and training from me throughout the year. The next programme starts on 18th October 2022 and you can see all the details on my website at https://www.acccountmanagementskills.com/training. You can book in a no-obligation 20 minute call with me, to see if the training is the right fit for you or your team.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 72. This chat is packed full of tips for how to be successful in the agency account management role as you transition through the levels,  to become a Client Services team leader.

Vicky Janaway joins me from The Gate agency and she shares with me:

what her role entails as client relationship lead
what it takes to be an excellent account manager and account team lead
some tips for making the transition from account manager to account director
why she follows the philosophy of Radical Candour when giving feedback to her team
and she also shares some great book recommendations for those who are keen to develop their own leadership skills.

Finally, I’m really excited to let you know that my Account Accelerator training programme is now a year long. So not only do you get nine weeks of training and coaching with me, but you'll also get to connect with your peers who have also been through the training. And you'll continue to receive ongoing support and training from me throughout the year. The next programme starts on 18th October 2022 and you can see all the details on my website at https://www.acccountmanagementskills.com/training. You can book in a no-obligation 20 minute call with me, to see if the training is the right fit for you or your team.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Legal matters for agencies, with Ryan Lisk</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/vnwm737n-legal-matters-for-agencies-with-ryan-lisk</link>
      <itunes:title>Legal matters for agencies, with Ryan Lisk</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>71</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">81x4q9q1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 71. I invited Ryan Lisk, Founder of Hybrid Legal, to talk about why it's important to cover yourself legally when growing an agency.

We chatted about:

some of the risks agencies take by not having the right contracts in place
the different legal areas agencies need to pay attention to at every stage of their growth
and he also shared examples of how easily you can leave your agency business exposed when you don't cover all of the most relevant legal areas.

If you have any questions or doubts that you might not have all of your legal bases covered in your agency, then please do contact Ryan via LinkedIn or his website.

And as we've been talking about risk, if you want to reduce your client relationship risk, and would like to talk to me about account management training, then you can find out more on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 71. I invited Ryan Lisk, Founder of Hybrid Legal, to talk about why it's important to cover yourself legally when growing an agency.<br><br>We chatted about:<br><br>some of the risks agencies take by not having the right contracts in place<br>the different legal areas agencies need to pay attention to at every stage of their growth<br>and he also shared examples of how easily you can leave your agency business exposed when you don't cover all of the most relevant legal areas.<br><br>If you have any questions or doubts that you might not have all of your legal bases covered in your agency, then please do contact Ryan via <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlisk">LinkedIn</a> or his <a href="https://www.hybridlegal.co.uk">website</a>.<br><br>And as we've been talking about risk, if you want to reduce your client relationship risk, and would like to talk to me about account management training, then you can find out more on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2022 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/w95p44yw.mp3" length="62613859" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/3f4c1610-35ad-11ed-9ae6-f58bd76db2c6/3f4c1750-35ad-11ed-a3dc-99131c41d612.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3130</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 71. I invited Ryan Lisk, Founder of Hybrid Legal, to talk about why it's important to cover yourself legally when growing an agency.

We chatted about:

some of the risks agencies take by not having the right contracts in place
the different legal areas agencies need to pay attention to at every stage of their growth
and he also shared examples of how easily you can leave your agency business exposed when you don't cover all of the most relevant legal areas.

If you have any questions or doubts that you might not have all of your legal bases covered in your agency, then please do contact Ryan via LinkedIn or his website.

And as we've been talking about risk, if you want to reduce your client relationship risk, and would like to talk to me about account management training, then you can find out more on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 71. I invited Ryan Lisk, Founder of Hybrid Legal, to talk about why it's important to cover yourself legally when growing an agency.

We chatted about:

some of the risks agencies take by not having the right contracts in place
the different legal areas agencies need to pay attention to at every stage of their growth
and he also shared examples of how easily you can leave your agency business exposed when you don't cover all of the most relevant legal areas.

If you have any questions or doubts that you might not have all of your legal bases covered in your agency, then please do contact Ryan via LinkedIn or his website.

And as we've been talking about risk, if you want to reduce your client relationship risk, and would like to talk to me about account management training, then you can find out more on my website: https://www.accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to uncover more resourcefulness and build resilience in your agency, with Piers Thurston</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/2869456n-how-to-uncover-more-resourcefulness-and-build-resilience-in-your-agency-with-piers-thurston</link>
      <itunes:title>How to uncover more resourcefulness and build resilience in your agency, with Piers Thurston</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>70</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">j12nzp91</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 70. Have you ever experienced feelings of anxiety, overwhelm, or even burnout in your agency job?  We all know that working in an agency can be fun and rewarding. But it's also really fast paced.

Many account managers are juggling lots of different client relationships, multiple projects, and reacting to the inevitable unexpected fires that also need to be put out. And, let's be honest, some days, weeks, or even months can be constantly busy and feel pretty relentless.

Account managers need a high level of personal resilience, and also a certain degree of resourcefulness, and being able to keep your cool when dealing with problems. I recently had some training myself to help me with my own resilience, called Quality of Mind and it was unlike any other training I'd experienced before, because it was talking about how the mind actually works. It hasn't only helped me with my resilience, it's also impacted very positively in all sorts of areas of my life. #

The foundations of this training that I did were based on what's known as non-duality, the direct path. And since the training three months ago, I've been pretty riveted by this topic and I've managed to read four books and I’ve watched a couple of documentaries on YouTube. I felt like I was discovering a big secret with this training, but I've been surprised to see that it was actually just this world that I knew nothing about, and that these principles that I learned, I have already been adopted by 1000s of individuals, business leaders and organisations.

I've been so impacted about what I've learned that I wanted Piers Thurston to come on and share these principles of this Quality of Mind training with you.

If my chat with Piers piques your interest and you're curious to go a bit deeper, or maybe you want to ask questions to see if it might help you or your agency team, then please join us for the free Quality of Mind for Agencies mini training at 1pm on Wednesday 14th of September 2022. Follow this link to register: www.bit.ly/qualityofmind</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 70. Have you ever experienced feelings of anxiety, overwhelm, or even burnout in your agency job?&nbsp; We all know that working in an agency can be fun and rewarding. But it's also really fast paced.<br><br></div><div>Many account managers are juggling lots of different client relationships, multiple projects, and reacting to the inevitable unexpected fires that also need to be put out. And, let's be honest, some days, weeks, or even months can be constantly busy and feel pretty relentless.<br><br></div><div>Account managers need a high level of personal resilience, and also a certain degree of resourcefulness, and being able to keep your cool when dealing with problems. I recently had some training myself to help me with my own resilience, called Quality of Mind and it was unlike any other training I'd experienced before, because it was talking about how the mind actually works. It hasn't only helped me with my resilience, it's also impacted very positively in all sorts of areas of my life. #<br><br></div><div>The foundations of this training that I did were based on what's known as non-duality, the direct path. And since the training three months ago, I've been pretty riveted by this topic and I've managed to read four books and I’ve watched a couple of documentaries on YouTube. I felt like I was discovering a big secret with this training, but I've been surprised to see that it was actually just this world that I knew nothing about, and that these principles that I learned, I have already been adopted by 1000s of individuals, business leaders and organisations.<br><br></div><div>I've been so impacted about what I've learned that I wanted Piers Thurston to come on and share these principles of this Quality of Mind training with you.<br><br></div><div>If my chat with Piers piques your interest and you're curious to go a bit deeper, or maybe you want to ask questions to see if it might help you or your agency team, then please join us for the free Quality of Mind for Agencies mini training at 1pm on Wednesday 14th of September 2022. Follow this link to register: <a href="http://www.bit.ly/qualityofmind">www.bit.ly/qualityofmind<br></a><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2022 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/w21560p8.mp3" length="59466104" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/f0bd3550-247e-11ed-a404-9dd706b8dad2/f0bd3810-247e-11ed-ad28-89a5797d32a1.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2973</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 70. Have you ever experienced feelings of anxiety, overwhelm, or even burnout in your agency job?  We all know that working in an agency can be fun and rewarding. But it's also really fast paced.

Many account managers are juggling lots of different client relationships, multiple projects, and reacting to the inevitable unexpected fires that also need to be put out. And, let's be honest, some days, weeks, or even months can be constantly busy and feel pretty relentless.

Account managers need a high level of personal resilience, and also a certain degree of resourcefulness, and being able to keep your cool when dealing with problems. I recently had some training myself to help me with my own resilience, called Quality of Mind and it was unlike any other training I'd experienced before, because it was talking about how the mind actually works. It hasn't only helped me with my resilience, it's also impacted very positively in all sorts of areas of my life. #

The foundations of this training that I did were based on what's known as non-duality, the direct path. And since the training three months ago, I've been pretty riveted by this topic and I've managed to read four books and I’ve watched a couple of documentaries on YouTube. I felt like I was discovering a big secret with this training, but I've been surprised to see that it was actually just this world that I knew nothing about, and that these principles that I learned, I have already been adopted by 1000s of individuals, business leaders and organisations.

I've been so impacted about what I've learned that I wanted Piers Thurston to come on and share these principles of this Quality of Mind training with you.

If my chat with Piers piques your interest and you're curious to go a bit deeper, or maybe you want to ask questions to see if it might help you or your agency team, then please join us for the free Quality of Mind for Agencies mini training at 1pm on Wednesday 14th of September 2022. Follow this link to register: www.bit.ly/qualityofmind</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 70. Have you ever experienced feelings of anxiety, overwhelm, or even burnout in your agency job?  We all know that working in an agency can be fun and rewarding. But it's also really fast paced.

Many account managers are juggling lots of different client relationships, multiple projects, and reacting to the inevitable unexpected fires that also need to be put out. And, let's be honest, some days, weeks, or even months can be constantly busy and feel pretty relentless.

Account managers need a high level of personal resilience, and also a certain degree of resourcefulness, and being able to keep your cool when dealing with problems. I recently had some training myself to help me with my own resilience, called Quality of Mind and it was unlike any other training I'd experienced before, because it was talking about how the mind actually works. It hasn't only helped me with my resilience, it's also impacted very positively in all sorts of areas of my life. #

The foundations of this training that I did were based on what's known as non-duality, the direct path. And since the training three months ago, I've been pretty riveted by this topic and I've managed to read four books and I’ve watched a couple of documentaries on YouTube. I felt like I was discovering a big secret with this training, but I've been surprised to see that it was actually just this world that I knew nothing about, and that these principles that I learned, I have already been adopted by 1000s of individuals, business leaders and organisations.

I've been so impacted about what I've learned that I wanted Piers Thurston to come on and share these principles of this Quality of Mind training with you.

If my chat with Piers piques your interest and you're curious to go a bit deeper, or maybe you want to ask questions to see if it might help you or your agency team, then please join us for the free Quality of Mind for Agencies mini training at 1pm on Wednesday 14th of September 2022. Follow this link to register: www.bit.ly/qualityofmind</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to make your agency more profitable, with Marcel Petitpas</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/x8y96q58-how-to-make-your-agency-more-profitable-with-marcel-petitpas</link>
      <itunes:title>How to make your agency more profitable, with Marcel Petitpas</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>69</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">l04m78y1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 69, with agency profitability expert, Marcel Petitpas in which we talk about the agency account manager's role in making sure projects are delivered profitably in a creative agency.
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/marcelpetitpas

He shared:

- the most common reasons agencies are unprofitable
- some examples of where agencies can tighten up
- what he's seeing the most profitable agencies doing differently
- the importance of the account managers role in agency profitability
- and what he thinks of value based pricing.

There are lots of wonderful, useful nuggets of wisdom in this conversation and I found this discussion with him so valuable. Once you’ve listened to the podcast, don't forget to go over and see the resources that he's provided. He talks about his toolkit and also the agency pricing quadrant.
Find the transcript at: https://accountmanagementskills.com/how-to-make-your-agency-more-profitable-with-marcel-petitpas/

A reminder that my next Account Accelerator training programme starts on 15th September and helps anyone in a creative agency account management position, and who is responsible for the agency's forecast, to grow their existing accounts. If you'd like to learn more about the programme, go to my Training page: www.accountmanagementskills.com/training. You can book a 20 minute call with me and we can see if it might be a good fit for you or someone else in your team. At the end of the podcast recording or transcript, you’ll find out what other participants have said about going on the Accelerator programme.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 69, with agency profitability expert, Marcel Petitpas in which we talk about the agency account manager's role in making sure projects are delivered profitably in a creative agency.<br>https://ca.linkedin.com/in/marcelpetitpas<br><br>He shared:<br><br>- the most common reasons agencies are unprofitable<br>- some examples of where agencies can tighten up<br>- what he's seeing the most profitable agencies doing differently<br>- the importance of the account managers role in agency profitability<br>- and what he thinks of value based pricing.<br><br>There are lots of wonderful, useful nuggets of wisdom in this conversation and I found this discussion with him so valuable. Once you’ve listened to the podcast, don't forget to go over and see the resources that he's provided. He talks about his toolkit and also the agency pricing quadrant.<br><br>Find the transcript at: https://accountmanagementskills.com/how-to-make-your-agency-more-profitable-with-marcel-petitpas/<br><br>A reminder that my next Account Accelerator training programme starts on 15th September and helps anyone in a creative agency account management position, and who is responsible for the agency's forecast, to grow their existing accounts. If you'd like to learn more about the programme, go to my Training page: www.accountmanagementskills.com/training. You can book a 20 minute call with me and we can see if it might be a good fit for you or someone else in your team. At the end of the podcast recording or transcript, you’ll find out what other participants have said about going on the Accelerator programme.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2022 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/wk422668.mp3" length="66607981" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/4cce0730-1dff-11ed-9686-6daf153424b2/4cce0960-1dff-11ed-93f3-19f552829027.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3330</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 69, with agency profitability expert, Marcel Petitpas in which we talk about the agency account manager's role in making sure projects are delivered profitably in a creative agency.
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/marcelpetitpas

He shared:

- the most common reasons agencies are unprofitable
- some examples of where agencies can tighten up
- what he's seeing the most profitable agencies doing differently
- the importance of the account managers role in agency profitability
- and what he thinks of value based pricing.

There are lots of wonderful, useful nuggets of wisdom in this conversation and I found this discussion with him so valuable. Once you’ve listened to the podcast, don't forget to go over and see the resources that he's provided. He talks about his toolkit and also the agency pricing quadrant.
Find the transcript at: https://accountmanagementskills.com/how-to-make-your-agency-more-profitable-with-marcel-petitpas/

A reminder that my next Account Accelerator training programme starts on 15th September and helps anyone in a creative agency account management position, and who is responsible for the agency's forecast, to grow their existing accounts. If you'd like to learn more about the programme, go to my Training page: www.accountmanagementskills.com/training. You can book a 20 minute call with me and we can see if it might be a good fit for you or someone else in your team. At the end of the podcast recording or transcript, you’ll find out what other participants have said about going on the Accelerator programme.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 69, with agency profitability expert, Marcel Petitpas in which we talk about the agency account manager's role in making sure projects are delivered profitably in a creative agency.
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/marcelpetitpas

He shared:

- the most common reasons agencies are unprofitable
- some examples of where agencies can tighten up
- what he's seeing the most profitable agencies doing differently
- the importance of the account managers role in agency profitability
- and what he thinks of value based pricing.

There are lots of wonderful, useful nuggets of wisdom in this conversation and I found this discussion with him so valuable. Once you’ve listened to the podcast, don't forget to go over and see the resources that he's provided. He talks about his toolkit and also the agency pricing quadrant.
Find the transcript at: https://accountmanagementskills.com/how-to-make-your-agency-more-profitable-with-marcel-petitpas/

A reminder that my next Account Accelerator training programme starts on 15th September and helps anyone in a creative agency account management position, and who is responsible for the agency's forecast, to grow their existing accounts. If you'd like to learn more about the programme, go to my Training page: www.accountmanagementskills.com/training. You can book a 20 minute call with me and we can see if it might be a good fit for you or someone else in your team. At the end of the podcast recording or transcript, you’ll find out what other participants have said about going on the Accelerator programme.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Four account growth considerations for agencies, with Jenny Plant</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/xnvmv968-four-account-growth-considerations-for-agencies</link>
      <itunes:title>Four account growth considerations for agencies, with Jenny Plant</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>68</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">71ymr3z1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 68. This is a shorter, solo episode in which I talk about growing your existing accounts. There's been a lot of talk about the coming recession. If so, how do we prepare for it? 

Mark Ritson has written about this in Marketing Week, and The Drum have been talking about how agencies can prepare for it. For agencies, it will be even more important than ever to look after their current clients. Not only look after them but also seek ways of growing them as well. 

So, I've to share with you four reminders, and some questions you could ask yourself, about how you can grow existing business, and why it helps you in your account management role.

If this episode resonates with you, and you would like to go further into the other ways that you can grow your business, work with me for nine weeks so that we can work together to help you grow your accounts, and talk about all other aspects of growing your existing accounts, then my next Account Accelerator training programme starts on 15th of September. If this sounds like something that you're interested in, or maybe you think it's suitable for one of your team members, then please book a call with me, you can go to my website, www.accountmanagementskills.com/training and book a short call with me. And let's have a discussion and see if it's the right fit for you. Similarly, you can contact me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 68. This is a shorter, solo episode in which I talk about growing your existing accounts. There's been a lot of talk about the coming recession. If so, how do we prepare for it?&nbsp;<br><br>Mark Ritson has written about this in Marketing Week, and The Drum have been talking about how agencies can prepare for it. For agencies, it will be even more important than ever to look after their current clients. Not only look after them but also seek ways of growing them as well.&nbsp;<br><br>So, I've to share with you four reminders, and some questions you could ask yourself, about how you can grow existing business, and why it helps you in your account management role.<br><br>If this episode resonates with you, and you would like to go further into the other ways that you can grow your business, work with me for nine weeks so that we can work together to help you grow your accounts, and talk about all other aspects of growing your existing accounts, then my next Account Accelerator training programme starts on 15th of September. If this sounds like something that you're interested in, or maybe you think it's suitable for one of your team members, then please book a call with me, you can go to my website, www.accountmanagementskills.com/training and book a short call with me. And let's have a discussion and see if it's the right fit for you. Similarly, you can contact me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2022 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/z863x14w.mp3" length="15971182" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/db928d60-0cad-11ed-b7fc-b99d51109b02/db928ee0-0cad-11ed-91dd-212ba26db2dc.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>798</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 68. This is a shorter, solo episode in which I talk about growing your existing accounts. There's been a lot of talk about the coming recession. If so, how do we prepare for it? 

Mark Ritson has written about this in Marketing Week, and The Drum have been talking about how agencies can prepare for it. For agencies, it will be even more important than ever to look after their current clients. Not only look after them but also seek ways of growing them as well. 

So, I've to share with you four reminders, and some questions you could ask yourself, about how you can grow existing business, and why it helps you in your account management role.

If this episode resonates with you, and you would like to go further into the other ways that you can grow your business, work with me for nine weeks so that we can work together to help you grow your accounts, and talk about all other aspects of growing your existing accounts, then my next Account Accelerator training programme starts on 15th of September. If this sounds like something that you're interested in, or maybe you think it's suitable for one of your team members, then please book a call with me, you can go to my website, www.accountmanagementskills.com/training and book a short call with me. And let's have a discussion and see if it's the right fit for you. Similarly, you can contact me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 68. This is a shorter, solo episode in which I talk about growing your existing accounts. There's been a lot of talk about the coming recession. If so, how do we prepare for it? 

Mark Ritson has written about this in Marketing Week, and The Drum have been talking about how agencies can prepare for it. For agencies, it will be even more important than ever to look after their current clients. Not only look after them but also seek ways of growing them as well. 

So, I've to share with you four reminders, and some questions you could ask yourself, about how you can grow existing business, and why it helps you in your account management role.

If this episode resonates with you, and you would like to go further into the other ways that you can grow your business, work with me for nine weeks so that we can work together to help you grow your accounts, and talk about all other aspects of growing your existing accounts, then my next Account Accelerator training programme starts on 15th of September. If this sounds like something that you're interested in, or maybe you think it's suitable for one of your team members, then please book a call with me, you can go to my website, www.accountmanagementskills.com/training and book a short call with me. And let's have a discussion and see if it's the right fit for you. Similarly, you can contact me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>account growth, marketing, creative agency, marketing strategy, advertising strategy</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The best and worst of client-agency relationships, with Gareth Turner</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/1839w008-the-best-and-worst-of-client-agency-relationships-with-gareth-turner</link>
      <itunes:title>The best and worst of client-agency relationships, with Gareth Turner</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>67</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">m0jxmkk0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 67.  You're in for a treat as I chatted to a very experienced marketer, Gareth Turner, who's been an agency client for much of his career.

He shares his own experience of being on the client side. He has also carried out a study of the best and worst client-agency relationships, and how to improve them, and he's published the results in a white paper. During our chat, we talked through the findings of this report. Whether you're in marketing on the client side or managing the relationship on the agency side, you're going to benefit from the insights he shares.

If you're working in agency account management, and you'd like to get some formal training in how to offer the highest level of value to your clients, so you not only retain your client relationships, but grow your accounts, then visit my website at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training, and check out my Account Accelerator programme. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 67.&nbsp; You're in for a treat as I chatted to a very experienced marketer, Gareth Turner, who's been an agency client for much of his career.<br><br>He shares his own experience of being on the client side. He has also carried out a study of the best and worst client-agency relationships, and how to improve them, and he's published the results in a white paper. During our chat, we talked through the findings of this report. Whether you're in marketing on the client side or managing the relationship on the agency side, you're going to benefit from the insights he shares.<br><br>If you're working in agency account management, and you'd like to get some formal training in how to offer the highest level of value to your clients, so you not only retain your client relationships, but grow your accounts, then visit my website at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training, and check out my Account Accelerator programme. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2022 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/zw1pyln8.mp3" length="53933369" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/64fac270-0387-11ed-9989-770ada4a08e4/64facd80-0387-11ed-9961-adb28c3e7809.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2696</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 67.  You're in for a treat as I chatted to a very experienced marketer, Gareth Turner, who's been an agency client for much of his career.

He shares his own experience of being on the client side. He has also carried out a study of the best and worst client-agency relationships, and how to improve them, and he's published the results in a white paper. During our chat, we talked through the findings of this report. Whether you're in marketing on the client side or managing the relationship on the agency side, you're going to benefit from the insights he shares.

If you're working in agency account management, and you'd like to get some formal training in how to offer the highest level of value to your clients, so you not only retain your client relationships, but grow your accounts, then visit my website at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training, and check out my Account Accelerator programme. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 67.  You're in for a treat as I chatted to a very experienced marketer, Gareth Turner, who's been an agency client for much of his career.

He shares his own experience of being on the client side. He has also carried out a study of the best and worst client-agency relationships, and how to improve them, and he's published the results in a white paper. During our chat, we talked through the findings of this report. Whether you're in marketing on the client side or managing the relationship on the agency side, you're going to benefit from the insights he shares.

If you're working in agency account management, and you'd like to get some formal training in how to offer the highest level of value to your clients, so you not only retain your client relationships, but grow your accounts, then visit my website at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training, and check out my Account Accelerator programme. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to ensure your agency team is diverse and inclusive, with Tutu Popoola</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/l8qrr4vn-how-to-ensure-your-agency-team-is-diverse-and-inclusive-with-tutu-popoola</link>
      <itunes:title>How to ensure your agency team is diverse and inclusive, with Tutu Popoola</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>66</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">80njjxr0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 66. We’re talking about diversity and inclusion in creative agencies with DE&amp;I expert, Tutu Popoola, Lead HR Consultant and Managing Director at Sleek HR. She shares so many tips and advice and insight into how agency leaders are navigating their way through the topic in their agencies. If you're an agency leader, she shares:

·         the areas of your recruitment systems and processes that you need to pay attention to 
·         how you can inadvertently exclude a team members when it comes to agency social events
·         the importance of consulting with your team, particularly before you talk about these topics on social media
·         how to help your team talk about mental health issues by setting the example
·         and lots more.  

I would encourage you to get in touch with Tutu if this is a topic where you think some external counsel might be helpful. 

There's been a lot of talk about the changing financial climate that's coming and talk of recession. So, it's going to be even more important to make sure we're looking after those existing client relationships. If you'd like to talk to me about client retention and growth training for your account management team, or maybe for yourself, then please do get in touch. You can go to my website www.accountmanagementskills.com/training and find out more about my training programme Account Accelerator, or you can contact me on LinkedIn (www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant) and let's have a chat about whether it's right for you.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 66. We’re talking about diversity and inclusion in creative agencies with DE&amp;I expert, <a href="https://uk.linkedin.com/in/tutu-popoola">Tutu Popoola</a>, Lead HR Consultant and Managing Director at <a href="https://sleekhr.co.uk/">Sleek HR</a>. She shares so many tips and advice and insight into how agency leaders are navigating their way through the topic in their agencies. If you're an agency leader, she shares:<br><br></div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;the areas of your recruitment systems and processes that you need to pay attention to&nbsp;</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how you can inadvertently exclude a team members when it comes to agency social events</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;the importance of consulting with your team, particularly before you talk about these topics on social media</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;how to help your team talk about mental health issues by setting the example</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;and lots more. &nbsp;<br><br></div><div>I would encourage you to get in touch with Tutu if this is a topic where you think some external counsel might be helpful.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>There's been a lot of talk about the changing financial climate that's coming and talk of recession. So, it's going to be even more important to make sure we're looking after those existing client relationships. If you'd like to talk to me about client retention and growth training for your account management team, or maybe for yourself, then please do get in touch. You can go to my website www.accountmanagementskills.com/training and find out more about my training programme Account Accelerator, or you can contact me on LinkedIn (www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant) and let's have a chat about whether it's right for you.&nbsp;<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 12 Jul 2022 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/58r35kxw.mp3" length="65974250" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/23535e60-fc4f-11ec-b1c4-9f1550e0e401/23535ff0-fc4f-11ec-8072-e982c5b0b28d.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3298</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 66. We’re talking about diversity and inclusion in creative agencies with DE&amp;I expert, Tutu Popoola, Lead HR Consultant and Managing Director at Sleek HR. She shares so many tips and advice and insight into how agency leaders are navigating their way through the topic in their agencies. If you're an agency leader, she shares:

·         the areas of your recruitment systems and processes that you need to pay attention to 
·         how you can inadvertently exclude a team members when it comes to agency social events
·         the importance of consulting with your team, particularly before you talk about these topics on social media
·         how to help your team talk about mental health issues by setting the example
·         and lots more.  

I would encourage you to get in touch with Tutu if this is a topic where you think some external counsel might be helpful. 

There's been a lot of talk about the changing financial climate that's coming and talk of recession. So, it's going to be even more important to make sure we're looking after those existing client relationships. If you'd like to talk to me about client retention and growth training for your account management team, or maybe for yourself, then please do get in touch. You can go to my website www.accountmanagementskills.com/training and find out more about my training programme Account Accelerator, or you can contact me on LinkedIn (www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant) and let's have a chat about whether it's right for you.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 66. We’re talking about diversity and inclusion in creative agencies with DE&amp;I expert, Tutu Popoola, Lead HR Consultant and Managing Director at Sleek HR. She shares so many tips and advice and insight into how agency leaders are navigating their way through the topic in their agencies. If you're an agency leader, she shares:

·         the areas of your recruitment systems and processes that you need to pay attention to 
·         how you can inadvertently exclude a team members when it comes to agency social events
·         the importance of consulting with your team, particularly before you talk about these topics on social media
·         how to help your team talk about mental health issues by setting the example
·         and lots more.  

I would encourage you to get in touch with Tutu if this is a topic where you think some external counsel might be helpful. 

There's been a lot of talk about the changing financial climate that's coming and talk of recession. So, it's going to be even more important to make sure we're looking after those existing client relationships. If you'd like to talk to me about client retention and growth training for your account management team, or maybe for yourself, then please do get in touch. You can go to my website www.accountmanagementskills.com/training and find out more about my training programme Account Accelerator, or you can contact me on LinkedIn (www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant) and let's have a chat about whether it's right for you.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>From account manager to agency business consultant with Danny Turnbull</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/2869w7vn-from-account-manager-to-agency-business-consultant-with-danny-turnbull</link>
      <itunes:title>From account manager to agency business consultant with Danny Turnbull</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>65</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">j12njm31</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 65. This episode will appeal to two types of people. 

1) If you're already working in agency account management, but you're super ambitious, and you just want to see where your account management skills can take you in your career, or 
2) you're an agency owner, and you want to scale your business

Today's guest is Danny Turnbull. Danny helps independent agencies grow their business, but he started his career in account management. He moved through the ranks of account management to various agency leadership roles, and has ended up consulting with agency business owners. 

Dan is talks to us about his career path and what helped him on his career path, and some revelations about what accelerated his career. But he also shares:
-  some of the challenges agencies are facing right now
- his view on whether working from home works for agencies
-  and also why he encourages agencies to consider a pod structure business model. 

If you're an agency owner, and you haven't joined the free agency owner community, Agencynomics, or read the book, then go over to agencynomics.com, and you can find out a lot more about that. And if you'd like to chat to me about agency account management training, please go over to my website, www.accountmanagementskills.com where you can find details of my next Account Accelerator training programme, starting in September.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 65. This episode will appeal to two types of people.&nbsp;<br><br>1) If you're already working in agency account management, but you're super ambitious, and you just want to see where your account management skills can take you in your career, or&nbsp;<br>2) you're an agency owner, and you want to scale your business<br><br>Today's guest is Danny Turnbull. Danny helps independent agencies grow their business, but he started his career in account management. He moved through the ranks of account management to various agency leadership roles and has ended up consulting with agency business owners.&nbsp;<br><br>Dan talks to us about his career path and what helped him on his career path, and some revelations about what accelerated his career. But he also shares:<br>-&nbsp; some of the challenges agencies are facing right now<br>- his view on whether working from home works for agencies<br>-&nbsp; and also why he encourages agencies to consider a pod structure business model.&nbsp;<br><br>If you're an agency owner, and you haven't joined the free agency owner community, Agencynomics, or read the book, then go over to agencynomics.com, and you can find out a lot more about that. And if you'd like to chat to me about agency account management training, please go over to my website, www.accountmanagementskills.com where you can find details of my next Account Accelerator training programme, starting in September.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2022 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/nwzjp4mw.mp3" length="57352797" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/6e4daf10-f3b5-11ec-9df8-2937be217d18/6e4db060-f3b5-11ec-b8a4-550fe1bca626.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2867</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 65. This episode will appeal to two types of people. 

1) If you're already working in agency account management, but you're super ambitious, and you just want to see where your account management skills can take you in your career, or 
2) you're an agency owner, and you want to scale your business

Today's guest is Danny Turnbull. Danny helps independent agencies grow their business, but he started his career in account management. He moved through the ranks of account management to various agency leadership roles, and has ended up consulting with agency business owners. 

Dan is talks to us about his career path and what helped him on his career path, and some revelations about what accelerated his career. But he also shares:
-  some of the challenges agencies are facing right now
- his view on whether working from home works for agencies
-  and also why he encourages agencies to consider a pod structure business model. 

If you're an agency owner, and you haven't joined the free agency owner community, Agencynomics, or read the book, then go over to agencynomics.com, and you can find out a lot more about that. And if you'd like to chat to me about agency account management training, please go over to my website, www.accountmanagementskills.com where you can find details of my next Account Accelerator training programme, starting in September.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 65. This episode will appeal to two types of people. 

1) If you're already working in agency account management, but you're super ambitious, and you just want to see where your account management skills can take you in your career, or 
2) you're an agency owner, and you want to scale your business

Today's guest is Danny Turnbull. Danny helps independent agencies grow their business, but he started his career in account management. He moved through the ranks of account management to various agency leadership roles, and has ended up consulting with agency business owners. 

Dan is talks to us about his career path and what helped him on his career path, and some revelations about what accelerated his career. But he also shares:
-  some of the challenges agencies are facing right now
- his view on whether working from home works for agencies
-  and also why he encourages agencies to consider a pod structure business model. 

If you're an agency owner, and you haven't joined the free agency owner community, Agencynomics, or read the book, then go over to agencynomics.com, and you can find out a lot more about that. And if you'd like to chat to me about agency account management training, please go over to my website, www.accountmanagementskills.com where you can find details of my next Account Accelerator training programme, starting in September.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Is your client's marketing fit for purpose?, with Nicky Parker</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/v8wmv558-is-your-client-s-marketing-fit-for-purpose-with-nicky-parker</link>
      <itunes:title>Is your client's marketing fit for purpose?, with Nicky Parker</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>64</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">80x4zxx0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 64. Nicky Parker, founder of Bang Consulting, helps companies make sure their marketing is fit for purpose so she's very familiar with the realities of what our marketing clients do on a day to day basis and the challenges they face.

In this podcast, Nicky shares:

- Why agencies shouldn't be putting technical people in charge of a client relationship
- How account managers can get more credibility and deepen the relationship with their client
- Why account managers shouldn't be chasing invoice payments
- Why you need to keep the client informed about team changes

And lots, lots more. Nicky really provides some valuable golden nuggets having worked with many companies on their marketing strategy and operations over the years.

I'm now taking bookings for my September training programme for those in creative agency account management. So if you want to learn how to retain and grow your client relationships, position yourself more as an adviser than order taker,  you can visit my Training page at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training  and book a 20-minute call with me to see if this might be a good fit for you.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 64. Nicky Parker, founder of Bang Consulting, helps companies make sure their marketing is fit for purpose so she's very familiar with the realities of what our marketing clients do on a day to day basis and the challenges they face.<br><br>In this podcast, Nicky shares:<br><br>- Why agencies shouldn't be putting technical people in charge of a client relationship<br>- How account managers can get more credibility and deepen the relationship with their client<br>- Why account managers shouldn't be chasing invoice payments<br>- Why you need to keep the client informed about team changes<br><br>And lots, lots more. Nicky really provides some valuable golden nuggets having worked with many companies on their marketing strategy and operations over the years.<br><br>I'm now taking bookings for my September training programme for those in creative agency account management. So if you want to learn how to retain and grow your client relationships, position yourself more as an adviser than order taker,&nbsp; you can visit my Training page at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training&nbsp; and book a 20-minute call with me to see if this might be a good fit for you.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Wed, 08 Jun 2022 10:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/58lnrmj8.mp3" length="69368079" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/78b69ed0-e719-11ec-b308-27742aa5355f/78b6a040-e719-11ec-940e-e35d089f1494.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3468</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 64. Nicky Parker, founder of Bang Consulting, helps companies make sure their marketing is fit for purpose so she's very familiar with the realities of what our marketing clients do on a day to day basis and the challenges they face.

In this podcast, Nicky shares:

- Why agencies shouldn't be putting technical people in charge of a client relationship
- How account managers can get more credibility and deepen the relationship with their client
- Why account managers shouldn't be chasing invoice payments
- Why you need to keep the client informed about team changes

And lots, lots more. Nicky really provides some valuable golden nuggets having worked with many companies on their marketing strategy and operations over the years.

I'm now taking bookings for my September training programme for those in creative agency account management. So if you want to learn how to retain and grow your client relationships, position yourself more as an adviser than order taker,  you can visit my Training page at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training  and book a 20-minute call with me to see if this might be a good fit for you.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 64. Nicky Parker, founder of Bang Consulting, helps companies make sure their marketing is fit for purpose so she's very familiar with the realities of what our marketing clients do on a day to day basis and the challenges they face.

In this podcast, Nicky shares:

- Why agencies shouldn't be putting technical people in charge of a client relationship
- How account managers can get more credibility and deepen the relationship with their client
- Why account managers shouldn't be chasing invoice payments
- Why you need to keep the client informed about team changes

And lots, lots more. Nicky really provides some valuable golden nuggets having worked with many companies on their marketing strategy and operations over the years.

I'm now taking bookings for my September training programme for those in creative agency account management. So if you want to learn how to retain and grow your client relationships, position yourself more as an adviser than order taker,  you can visit my Training page at https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training  and book a 20-minute call with me to see if this might be a good fit for you.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>marketing, client management, creative agency, account manager</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Account growth tips for agency account managers, with Kap Chatfield and Jenny Plant</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/x8y9lp38-account-growth-tips-for-agency-account-managers-with-kap-chatfield-and-jenny-plant</link>
      <itunes:title>Account growth tips for agency account managers, with Kap Chatfield and Jenny Plant</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>63</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">l04mwj51</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 63.  A few months ago, I was invited to chat to Kap Chatfield from Rveal media about my podcast. During that interview, he grilled me not only about why I have the podcast, but he also asked me to share some tips for how to retain and grow client business. 

I thought it might be valuable to share the interview with you, if you haven't listened to it already, because we talked about:
- the number one problem agencies have with account growth
- ideas for how to address account growth problems
- what holds agencies back from growing accounts
- why quarterly strategy sessions are useful tips for understanding your client's business
- how to be more valuable to your clients as an account manager
- and how to be seen more like an advisor than an order taker.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 63.&nbsp; A few months ago, I was invited to chat to Kap Chatfield from Rveal media about my podcast. During that interview, he grilled me not only about why I have the podcast, but he also asked me to share some tips for how to retain and grow client business.&nbsp;<br><br>I thought it might be valuable to share the interview with you, if you haven't listened to it already, because we talked about:<br>- the number one problem agencies have with account growth<br>- ideas for how to address account growth problems<br>- what holds agencies back from growing accounts<br>- why quarterly strategy sessions are useful tips for understanding your client's business<br>- how to be more valuable to your clients as an account manager<br>- and how to be seen more like an advisor than an order taker.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2022 06:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/x87mvp48.mp3" length="41353320" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/48a7c870-dff5-11ec-b2df-7dc5a990a59e/48a7ca00-dff5-11ec-98d1-a1f01b358940.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2067</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 63.  A few months ago, I was invited to chat to Kap Chatfield from Rveal media about my podcast. During that interview, he grilled me not only about why I have the podcast, but he also asked me to share some tips for how to retain and grow client business. 

I thought it might be valuable to share the interview with you, if you haven't listened to it already, because we talked about:
- the number one problem agencies have with account growth
- ideas for how to address account growth problems
- what holds agencies back from growing accounts
- why quarterly strategy sessions are useful tips for understanding your client's business
- how to be more valuable to your clients as an account manager
- and how to be seen more like an advisor than an order taker.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 63.  A few months ago, I was invited to chat to Kap Chatfield from Rveal media about my podcast. During that interview, he grilled me not only about why I have the podcast, but he also asked me to share some tips for how to retain and grow client business. 

I thought it might be valuable to share the interview with you, if you haven't listened to it already, because we talked about:
- the number one problem agencies have with account growth
- ideas for how to address account growth problems
- what holds agencies back from growing accounts
- why quarterly strategy sessions are useful tips for understanding your client's business
- how to be more valuable to your clients as an account manager
- and how to be seen more like an advisor than an order taker.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>account manager, creative agency, account growth</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Five red flag moments for agency account managers</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/xny0jpq8-five-red-flag-moments-for-agency-account-managers</link>
      <itunes:title>Five red flag moments for agency account managers</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>62</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">l14pvj81</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 62. Usually, I have podcast guests but thought I'd do a quick episode to share with you some best practice tips if you're in the account management role and you're looking to do a bit of relationship risk management.

I believe there are a few 'red flag moments' that every agency account manager needs to be aware of, and look out for. These are, essentially, points in the relationship where your client relationship is at risk, and the account is at risk. And not only are 'red flag moments' important to try to anticipate but, when they happen, it's the account manager's job to act very swiftly, because you are responsible for the client relationship for not only the retention of but also the growth of the account. So, I've just got five examples of what I call, 'red flag moments'. I want to explain to you why I think they're important and share a couple of ideas for how you can either anticipate them, or tackle them.

I really hope you find this useful and that it's given you some ideas for what you need to be aware of with your client relationship risk management strategy.

If you would like to join my next Account Accelerator programme, which is all about client retention and growth, then please contact me at Jenny Plant on LinkedIn  or send me an email jenny@accountmanagementskills.com. You can also find more podcast episodes with lots of valuable information on the main podcast page on my website: www.accountmanagementskills.com/podcast. Pick a topic that's most relevant to you right now and enjoy it. Please keep in contact with me and let me know what you'd like to hear on the podcast.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 62. Usually, I have podcast guests but thought I'd do a quick episode to share with you some best practice tips if you're in the account management role and you're looking to do a bit of relationship risk management.<br><br>I believe there are a few 'red flag moments' that every agency account manager needs to be aware of, and look out for. These are, essentially, points in the relationship where your client relationship is at risk, and the account is at risk. And not only are 'red flag moments' important to try to anticipate but, when they happen, it's the account manager's job to act very swiftly, because you are responsible for the client relationship for not only the retention of but also the growth of the account. So, I've just got five examples of what I call, 'red flag moments'. I want to explain to you why I think they're important and share a couple of ideas for how you can either anticipate them, or tackle them.<br><br>I really hope you find this useful and that it's given you some ideas for what you need to be aware of with your client relationship risk management strategy.<br><br>If you would like to join my next Account Accelerator programme, which is all about client retention and growth, then please contact me at Jenny Plant on LinkedIn or send me an email jenny@accountmanagementskills.com. You can also find more podcast episodes with lots of valuable information on the main podcast page on my website: www.accountmanagementskills.com/podcast. Pick a topic that's most relevant to you right now and enjoy it. Please keep in contact with me and let me know what you'd like to hear on the podcast.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 17 May 2022 06:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/z867ql9w.mp3" length="23197696" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/a7c6b800-d05f-11ec-87ae-394b19431162/a7c6b980-d05f-11ec-ab8c-035fcb1076a6.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>1159</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 62. Usually, I have podcast guests but thought I'd do a quick episode to share with you some best practice tips if you're in the account management role and you're looking to do a bit of relationship risk management.

I believe there are a few 'red flag moments' that every agency account manager needs to be aware of, and look out for. These are, essentially, points in the relationship where your client relationship is at risk, and the account is at risk. And not only are 'red flag moments' important to try to anticipate but, when they happen, it's the account manager's job to act very swiftly, because you are responsible for the client relationship for not only the retention of but also the growth of the account. So, I've just got five examples of what I call, 'red flag moments'. I want to explain to you why I think they're important and share a couple of ideas for how you can either anticipate them, or tackle them.

I really hope you find this useful and that it's given you some ideas for what you need to be aware of with your client relationship risk management strategy.

If you would like to join my next Account Accelerator programme, which is all about client retention and growth, then please contact me at Jenny Plant on LinkedIn  or send me an email jenny@accountmanagementskills.com. You can also find more podcast episodes with lots of valuable information on the main podcast page on my website: www.accountmanagementskills.com/podcast. Pick a topic that's most relevant to you right now and enjoy it. Please keep in contact with me and let me know what you'd like to hear on the podcast.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 62. Usually, I have podcast guests but thought I'd do a quick episode to share with you some best practice tips if you're in the account management role and you're looking to do a bit of relationship risk management.

I believe there are a few 'red flag moments' that every agency account manager needs to be aware of, and look out for. These are, essentially, points in the relationship where your client relationship is at risk, and the account is at risk. And not only are 'red flag moments' important to try to anticipate but, when they happen, it's the account manager's job to act very swiftly, because you are responsible for the client relationship for not only the retention of but also the growth of the account. So, I've just got five examples of what I call, 'red flag moments'. I want to explain to you why I think they're important and share a couple of ideas for how you can either anticipate them, or tackle them.

I really hope you find this useful and that it's given you some ideas for what you need to be aware of with your client relationship risk management strategy.

If you would like to join my next Account Accelerator programme, which is all about client retention and growth, then please contact me at Jenny Plant on LinkedIn  or send me an email jenny@accountmanagementskills.com. You can also find more podcast episodes with lots of valuable information on the main podcast page on my website: www.accountmanagementskills.com/podcast. Pick a topic that's most relevant to you right now and enjoy it. Please keep in contact with me and let me know what you'd like to hear on the podcast.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>account manager, quarterly review, client retention</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to navigate people and culture issues for agency leaders, with Sarah Brewster</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/p8mmjl28-how-to-navigate-people-and-culture-issues-for-agency-leaders-with-sarah-brewster</link>
      <itunes:title>How to navigate people and culture issues for agency leaders, with Sarah Brewster</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>61</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">70vr7jx0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 61. Today's episode is about people and culture in a creative agency. It's particularly relevant if you're an independent agency owner because my expert guest, Sarah Brewster, Managing Director of Fresh Seed talks to me about why attracting and retaining staff is the biggest challenge in the industry at the moment.

She shares:
- some tips for how to recruit effectively
- advice for navigating issues such as diversity and inclusion, safety at work and the Me Too movement 
- and why she's seen a loss of kindness post-pandemic. 

She also shares why IR 35 has had a huge impact on freelancing, plus ways to ensure equal pay across the business. This episode is jam-packed with tips. 

If you'd like to receive weekly updates and tips about agency account management, then please head over to my website where you can sign up for my weekly email and check out the details of my Account Accelerator training programme, which is designed to help agencies expand existing client business.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 61. Today's episode is about people and culture in a creative agency. It's particularly relevant if you're an independent agency owner because my expert guest, Sarah Brewster, Managing Director of Fresh Seed talks to me about why attracting and retaining staff is the biggest challenge in the industry at the moment.<br><br>She shares:<br>- some tips for how to recruit effectively<br>- advice for navigating issues such as diversity and inclusion, safety at work and the Me Too movement&nbsp;<br>- and why she's seen a loss of kindness post-pandemic.&nbsp;<br><br>She also shares why IR 35 has had a huge impact on freelancing, plus ways to ensure equal pay across the business. This episode is jam-packed with tips.&nbsp;<br><br>If you'd like to receive weekly updates and tips about agency account management, then please head over to my website where you can sign up for my weekly email and check out the details of my Account Accelerator training programme, which is designed to help agencies expand existing client business.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2022 07:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/j8yrly5w.mp3" length="59332357" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/6bf0b9c0-c63a-11ec-b1c6-7fe148bae325/6bf0bb00-c63a-11ec-9f58-4f115822b877.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2966</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 61. Today's episode is about people and culture in a creative agency. It's particularly relevant if you're an independent agency owner because my expert guest, Sarah Brewster, Managing Director of Fresh Seed talks to me about why attracting and retaining staff is the biggest challenge in the industry at the moment.

She shares:
- some tips for how to recruit effectively
- advice for navigating issues such as diversity and inclusion, safety at work and the Me Too movement 
- and why she's seen a loss of kindness post-pandemic. 

She also shares why IR 35 has had a huge impact on freelancing, plus ways to ensure equal pay across the business. This episode is jam-packed with tips. 

If you'd like to receive weekly updates and tips about agency account management, then please head over to my website where you can sign up for my weekly email and check out the details of my Account Accelerator training programme, which is designed to help agencies expand existing client business.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 61. Today's episode is about people and culture in a creative agency. It's particularly relevant if you're an independent agency owner because my expert guest, Sarah Brewster, Managing Director of Fresh Seed talks to me about why attracting and retaining staff is the biggest challenge in the industry at the moment.

She shares:
- some tips for how to recruit effectively
- advice for navigating issues such as diversity and inclusion, safety at work and the Me Too movement 
- and why she's seen a loss of kindness post-pandemic. 

She also shares why IR 35 has had a huge impact on freelancing, plus ways to ensure equal pay across the business. This episode is jam-packed with tips. 

If you'd like to receive weekly updates and tips about agency account management, then please head over to my website where you can sign up for my weekly email and check out the details of my Account Accelerator training programme, which is designed to help agencies expand existing client business.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>IR35, diversity, Me Too, agency recruitment, marketing, creative agency, account manager</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to make yourself more valuable to your client, with Kate Whittaker</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/4n9zylr8-how-to-make-yourself-more-valuable-to-your-client-with-kate-whittaker</link>
      <itunes:title>How to make yourself more valuable to your client, with Kate Whittaker</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>60</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">v07kyjp0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 60. The most downloaded podcast episode to date is still my first chat with Kate Whittaker, a marketer of 30 years who shared insight into what it's like being a client, and what clients want most from their agencies. If you haven't listened to that one already, I'd recommend you go back and have a listen. (Episode 1)

In this episode, Kate talks about what's changed for her since August 2020, which was when the pandemic forced us all to be locked down. She shares:

what have been the biggest changes for her, her role and her organisation in the last couple of years
how her needs have changed in terms of what she's looking for from agencies
some suggestions for how you can strengthen your relationships with clients while working remotely.

And we talked about lots more.

Understanding how to develop client relationships and grow accounts is essential for any agency account manager. And yet, too often, there is no real guidance on how to do it. So if you're in a client-facing role and you want to hone your account management skills, then check out my Account Accelerator programme. Many agency account managers have told me the biggest shift for them after my programme is a newfound confidence when handling client relationships.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 60. The most downloaded podcast episode to date is still my first chat with <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/katewhittaker/">Kate Whittaker</a>, a marketer of 30 years who shared insight into what it's like being a client, and what clients want most from their agencies. If you haven't listened to that one already, I'd recommend you go back and have a listen (Episode 1)<br><br></div><div>In this episode, Kate talks about what's changed for her since August 2020, which was when the pandemic forced us all to be locked down. She shares:<br><br></div><ul><li>what have been the biggest changes for her, her role and her organisation in the last couple of years</li><li>how her needs have changed in terms of what she's looking for from agencies</li><li>some suggestions for how you can strengthen your relationships with clients while working remotely.</li></ul><div>And we talked about lots more.<br><br></div><div>Understanding how to develop client relationships and grow accounts is essential for any agency account manager. And yet, too often, there is no real guidance on how to do it. So if you're in a client-facing role and you want to hone your account management skills, then check out my <a href="https://accountmanagementskills.com/training/">Account Accelerator programme</a>. Many agency account managers have told me the biggest shift for them after my programme is a newfound confidence when handling client relationships.<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 19 Apr 2022 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/j8yzv9rw.mp3" length="51540553" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/e87f62f0-b9a3-11ec-90dc-4dc97762354f/e87f6450-b9a3-11ec-abb3-556cb9cb3388.jpg"/>
      <itunes:duration>2576</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 60. The most downloaded podcast episode to date is still my first chat with Kate Whittaker, a marketer of 30 years who shared insight into what it's like being a client, and what clients want most from their agencies. If you haven't listened to that one already, I'd recommend you go back and have a listen. (Episode 1)

In this episode, Kate talks about what's changed for her since August 2020, which was when the pandemic forced us all to be locked down. She shares:

what have been the biggest changes for her, her role and her organisation in the last couple of years
how her needs have changed in terms of what she's looking for from agencies
some suggestions for how you can strengthen your relationships with clients while working remotely.

And we talked about lots more.

Understanding how to develop client relationships and grow accounts is essential for any agency account manager. And yet, too often, there is no real guidance on how to do it. So if you're in a client-facing role and you want to hone your account management skills, then check out my Account Accelerator programme. Many agency account managers have told me the biggest shift for them after my programme is a newfound confidence when handling client relationships.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 60. The most downloaded podcast episode to date is still my first chat with Kate Whittaker, a marketer of 30 years who shared insight into what it's like being a client, and what clients want most from their agencies. If you haven't listened to that one already, I'd recommend you go back and have a listen. (Episode 1)

In this episode, Kate talks about what's changed for her since August 2020, which was when the pandemic forced us all to be locked down. She shares:

what have been the biggest changes for her, her role and her organisation in the last couple of years
how her needs have changed in terms of what she's looking for from agencies
some suggestions for how you can strengthen your relationships with clients while working remotely.

And we talked about lots more.

Understanding how to develop client relationships and grow accounts is essential for any agency account manager. And yet, too often, there is no real guidance on how to do it. So if you're in a client-facing role and you want to hone your account management skills, then check out my Account Accelerator programme. Many agency account managers have told me the biggest shift for them after my programme is a newfound confidence when handling client relationships.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>marketing client, creative agency, account manager skills, account manager training</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How a community for women in healthcare was built, with Peg Dougherty Marcus</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/1nppv96n-how-a-community-for-women-in-healthcare-was-built-with-peg-dougherty-marcus</link>
      <itunes:title>How a community for women in healthcare was built, with Peg Dougherty Marcus</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>59</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">z0rv3wk0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 59. My guest for this episode is Peg Dougherty Marcus, Co-Founder of the Healthcare Businesswomen's Association (HBA).  Peg is, quite frankly, one of the most inspiring women I've met in a long time. She started her career in a healthcare communications agency and she was just 23. 

In this chat, we talk about why and how she started the HBA in 1977, despite every obstacle, and also in a dominating 'boys club' culture. She also talks about why women were scared to speak out about harassment at work, and whether she thinks things have changed today. She shares some really practical tips for women's safety when you're travelling or maybe entertaining for business. She's a passionate supporter of women in business, she's a natural connector, and she champions every woman who works in healthcare. 

If you're working in the era of healthcare, and you're not a member of the HPA, then you can go to their website and check out all the amazing benefits of joining. It's HBAnet.org.  I hope you find this chat as inspiring as I did because maybe it's going to inspire you to get involved in a relevant community that already exists for you in your area.  You might even think about gathering some of your peers together in the industry and starting your own. 

A couple of quick announcements. A quick reminder that my Account Accelerator training programme for agency account managers and directors starts on 10th of May 2022 and it's filling up quickly. So, if you'd like to join me, you can check out all the details on my website www.accountmanagementskills.com/training.  And you can book a quick call with me to check that it's a good fit for you. 

Secondly, my friend Tom Ollerton, owner of the AI-driven agency, Automated Creative, is looking for an account director. So if you fancy working for an AI-driven agency, and you happen to have some media buying experience, please contact Tom Ollerton on LinkedIn.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 59. My guest for this episode is Peg Dougherty Marcus, Co-Founder of the Healthcare Businesswomen's Association (HBA).&nbsp; Peg is, quite frankly, one of the most inspiring women I've met in a long time. She started her career in a healthcare communications agency and she was just 23.&nbsp;<br><br>In this chat, we talk about why and how she started the HBA in 1977, despite every obstacle, and also in a dominating 'boys club' culture. She also talks about why women were scared to speak out about harassment at work, and whether she thinks things have changed today. She shares some really practical tips for women's safety when you're travelling or maybe entertaining for business. She's a passionate supporter of women in business, she's a natural connector, and she champions every woman who works in healthcare.&nbsp;<br><br>If you're working in the era of healthcare, and you're not a member of the HPA, then you can go to their website and check out all the amazing benefits of joining. It's HBAnet.org.&nbsp; I hope you find this chat as inspiring as I did because maybe it's going to inspire you to get involved in a relevant community that already exists for you in your area.&nbsp; You might even think about gathering some of your peers together in the industry and starting your own.&nbsp;<br><br>A couple of quick announcements. A quick reminder that my Account Accelerator training programme for agency account managers and directors starts on 10th of May 2022 and it's filling up quickly. So, if you'd like to join me, you can check out all the details on my website www.accountmanagementskills.com/training.&nbsp; And you can book a quick call with me to check that it's a good fit for you.&nbsp;<br><br>Secondly, my friend Tom Ollerton, owner of the AI-driven agency, Automated Creative, is looking for an account director. So if you fancy working for an AI-driven agency, and you happen to have some media buying experience, please contact Tom Ollerton on LinkedIn.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 05 Apr 2022 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/2wk9z3pw.mp3" length="59682397" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/6991de60-b3fb-11ec-887d-d564380da5ba/6991dfe0-b3fb-11ec-aaac-61370ad398ec.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2983</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 59. My guest for this episode is Peg Dougherty Marcus, Co-Founder of the Healthcare Businesswomen's Association (HBA).  Peg is, quite frankly, one of the most inspiring women I've met in a long time. She started her career in a healthcare communications agency and she was just 23. 

In this chat, we talk about why and how she started the HBA in 1977, despite every obstacle, and also in a dominating 'boys club' culture. She also talks about why women were scared to speak out about harassment at work, and whether she thinks things have changed today. She shares some really practical tips for women's safety when you're travelling or maybe entertaining for business. She's a passionate supporter of women in business, she's a natural connector, and she champions every woman who works in healthcare. 

If you're working in the era of healthcare, and you're not a member of the HPA, then you can go to their website and check out all the amazing benefits of joining. It's HBAnet.org.  I hope you find this chat as inspiring as I did because maybe it's going to inspire you to get involved in a relevant community that already exists for you in your area.  You might even think about gathering some of your peers together in the industry and starting your own. 

A couple of quick announcements. A quick reminder that my Account Accelerator training programme for agency account managers and directors starts on 10th of May 2022 and it's filling up quickly. So, if you'd like to join me, you can check out all the details on my website www.accountmanagementskills.com/training.  And you can book a quick call with me to check that it's a good fit for you. 

Secondly, my friend Tom Ollerton, owner of the AI-driven agency, Automated Creative, is looking for an account director. So if you fancy working for an AI-driven agency, and you happen to have some media buying experience, please contact Tom Ollerton on LinkedIn.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 59. My guest for this episode is Peg Dougherty Marcus, Co-Founder of the Healthcare Businesswomen's Association (HBA).  Peg is, quite frankly, one of the most inspiring women I've met in a long time. She started her career in a healthcare communications agency and she was just 23. 

In this chat, we talk about why and how she started the HBA in 1977, despite every obstacle, and also in a dominating 'boys club' culture. She also talks about why women were scared to speak out about harassment at work, and whether she thinks things have changed today. She shares some really practical tips for women's safety when you're travelling or maybe entertaining for business. She's a passionate supporter of women in business, she's a natural connector, and she champions every woman who works in healthcare. 

If you're working in the era of healthcare, and you're not a member of the HPA, then you can go to their website and check out all the amazing benefits of joining. It's HBAnet.org.  I hope you find this chat as inspiring as I did because maybe it's going to inspire you to get involved in a relevant community that already exists for you in your area.  You might even think about gathering some of your peers together in the industry and starting your own. 

A couple of quick announcements. A quick reminder that my Account Accelerator training programme for agency account managers and directors starts on 10th of May 2022 and it's filling up quickly. So, if you'd like to join me, you can check out all the details on my website www.accountmanagementskills.com/training.  And you can book a quick call with me to check that it's a good fit for you. 

Secondly, my friend Tom Ollerton, owner of the AI-driven agency, Automated Creative, is looking for an account director. So if you fancy working for an AI-driven agency, and you happen to have some media buying experience, please contact Tom Ollerton on LinkedIn.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Account management tips from a global ad agency Account Director, with Faizan Ali</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/qn0j3q0n-account-management-tips-from-a-global-ad-agency-account-director-with-faizan-ali</link>
      <itunes:title>Account management tips from a global ad agency Account Director, with Faizan Ali</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>58</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">p1kx4p60</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 58. This episode is for you if you're wondering how an Account Director in an international network agency operates, and how they lead a team. 

Faizan Ali is an account director at VMLY&amp;R, and he shares with me:
- what makes a successful agency account manager
- what each level of account management should do (account exec, account manager and account director)
-  typical challenges you encounter in the role and some tips for how to overcome them. 
- why he likes to share tips about account management on LinkedIn
- and his advice for anyone wanting to progress in an agency account management role. 

This is jam full jam packed full of tips, so I really hope you enjoy it. 

I'd also like to remind you that if you want to join me for my next nine week Account Accelerator training programme, it starts on 10th May 2022. I help you increase your confidence in the account management role. add more value to your existing clients in a repeatable way and grow your accounts. You get coaching from me, a system you can copy and adapt for your agency as well as the online programme to see if it's a good fit for you or your agency. 

You can find out more about the programme and book a 20 minute call with me by going to my website, www.accountmanagementskills.com.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 58. This episode is for you if you're wondering how an Account Director in an international network agency operates, and how they lead a team.&nbsp;<br><br>Faizan Ali is an account director at VMLY&amp;R, and he shares with me:<br>- what makes a successful agency account manager<br>- what each level of account management should do (account exec, account manager and account director)<br>-&nbsp; typical challenges you encounter in the role and some tips for how to overcome them.&nbsp;<br>- why he likes to share tips about account management on LinkedIn<br>- and his advice for anyone wanting to progress in an agency account management role.&nbsp;<br><br>This is jam full jam packed full of tips, so I really hope you enjoy it.&nbsp;<br><br>I'd also like to remind you that if you want to join me for my next nine week Account Accelerator training programme, it starts on 10th May 2022. I help you increase your confidence in the account management role. add more value to your existing clients in a repeatable way and grow your accounts. You get coaching from me, a system you can copy and adapt for your agency as well as the online programme to see if it's a good fit for you or your agency.&nbsp;<br><br>You can find out more about the programme and book a 20 minute call with me by going to my website, www.accountmanagementskills.com.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/6w22135w.mp3" length="63565648" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/80f619c0-a447-11ec-a342-e775d9496042/80f61b00-a447-11ec-892e-01e5b9cd0de8.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3178</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 58. This episode is for you if you're wondering how an Account Director in an international network agency operates, and how they lead a team. 

Faizan Ali is an account director at VMLY&amp;R, and he shares with me:
- what makes a successful agency account manager
- what each level of account management should do (account exec, account manager and account director)
-  typical challenges you encounter in the role and some tips for how to overcome them. 
- why he likes to share tips about account management on LinkedIn
- and his advice for anyone wanting to progress in an agency account management role. 

This is jam full jam packed full of tips, so I really hope you enjoy it. 

I'd also like to remind you that if you want to join me for my next nine week Account Accelerator training programme, it starts on 10th May 2022. I help you increase your confidence in the account management role. add more value to your existing clients in a repeatable way and grow your accounts. You get coaching from me, a system you can copy and adapt for your agency as well as the online programme to see if it's a good fit for you or your agency. 

You can find out more about the programme and book a 20 minute call with me by going to my website, www.accountmanagementskills.com.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 58. This episode is for you if you're wondering how an Account Director in an international network agency operates, and how they lead a team. 

Faizan Ali is an account director at VMLY&amp;R, and he shares with me:
- what makes a successful agency account manager
- what each level of account management should do (account exec, account manager and account director)
-  typical challenges you encounter in the role and some tips for how to overcome them. 
- why he likes to share tips about account management on LinkedIn
- and his advice for anyone wanting to progress in an agency account management role. 

This is jam full jam packed full of tips, so I really hope you enjoy it. 

I'd also like to remind you that if you want to join me for my next nine week Account Accelerator training programme, it starts on 10th May 2022. I help you increase your confidence in the account management role. add more value to your existing clients in a repeatable way and grow your accounts. You get coaching from me, a system you can copy and adapt for your agency as well as the online programme to see if it's a good fit for you or your agency. 

You can find out more about the programme and book a 20 minute call with me by going to my website, www.accountmanagementskills.com.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>account manager, account director, creative agency, ad agency</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What the Metaverse means for agencies, with Ben Fryer</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/v85172q8-what-the-metaverse-means-for-agencies-with-ben-fryer</link>
      <itunes:title>What the Metaverse means for agencies, with Ben Fryer</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>57</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">81qw52n1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 57. What's the metaverse? How is it different to Web 3? What do agencies need to pay attention to? I chat to agency owner Ben Fryer from Diverse Interactive who has been helping his clients create virtual experiences for years. He gives us his take on the Metaverse and the opportunities for agencies of all disciplines.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 57. What's the metaverse? How is it different to Web 3? What do agencies need to pay attention to? I chat to agency owner Ben Fryer from Diverse Interactive who has been helping his clients create virtual experiences for years. He gives us his take on the Metaverse and the opportunities for agencies of all disciplines.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2022 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/nwzxv74w.mp3" length="51557271" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/bcaea870-9a06-11ec-81f4-2fa66b7f54bc/bcaea9d0-9a06-11ec-b998-89cce3911542.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2577</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 57. What's the metaverse? How is it different to Web 3? What do agencies need to pay attention to? I chat to agency owner Ben Fryer from Diverse Interactive who has been helping his clients create virtual experiences for years. He gives us his take on the Metaverse and the opportunities for agencies of all disciplines.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 57. What's the metaverse? How is it different to Web 3? What do agencies need to pay attention to? I chat to agency owner Ben Fryer from Diverse Interactive who has been helping his clients create virtual experiences for years. He gives us his take on the Metaverse and the opportunities for agencies of all disciplines.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>web3, metaverse, virtual reality, creative agency</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to navigate challenging situations as an agency account manager, with Robert Solomon</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/286wlxrn-how-to-navigate-challenging-situations-as-a-agency-account-manager-with-robert-solomon</link>
      <itunes:title>How to navigate challenging situations as an agency account manager, with Robert Solomon</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>56</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">j12jlqv1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 56. I chatted to the author of 'The Art of Client Service',  the legend that is Robert Solomon. 

If you haven't listened to his previous episode, number 46, I'd highly recommend you go back and have a listen because we talked about so many things relating to the account management role, including:
-  why there are fewer account managers doing more with much less experience
- why some people believe the account manager role is becoming extinct
- and why often the work of great account management isn't recognised. 

In this episode,  Robert shares what to look for when hiring a great account manager, what he says to people who think the role of account manager is easy, and how to get respected by your colleagues as an account manager. 

And he shares some fantastic tips for how to manage challenging situations, which he's brought to life by telling a couple of his own account management stories.  As an account manager, I think you'll find this both informative and entertaining. 

If you haven't bought his book, please go and grab a copy of the updated third edition of The Art of Client Service, so many people in account management have found this book highly valuable. 

I'd also like to remind you that my next Account Accelerator training programme starts on 15th March 2022. The programme helps those in agency account management with a systematic approach to adding more value to your existing clients and growing the accounts in nine weeks. You join a group of peers in other agencies where you can share best practice, you get group coaching from me, as I walk you through the different strategies, plus access to an online programme so you can go through the content at your own at your own pace. So if you'd like a quick 20 minute call to see if it's the right fit for you or your agency team, send me an email to jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or book a call on my website www.accountmanagementskills.com.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 56. I chatted to the author of 'The Art of Client Service',&nbsp; the legend that is Robert Solomon. <br><br>If you haven't listened to his previous episode, number 46, I'd highly recommend you go back and have a listen because we talked about so many things relating to the account management role, including:<br>-&nbsp; why there are fewer account managers doing more with much less experience<br>- why some people believe the account manager role is becoming extinct<br>- and why often the work of great account management isn't recognised. <br><br>In this episode,&nbsp; Robert shares what to look for when hiring a great account manager, what he says to people who think the role of account manager is easy, and how to get respected by your colleagues as an account manager. <br><br>And he shares some fantastic tips for how to manage challenging situations, which he's brought to life by telling a couple of his own account management stories.&nbsp; As an account manager, I think you'll find this both informative and entertaining. <br><br>If you haven't bought his book, please go and grab a copy of the updated third edition of The Art of Client Service, so many people in account management have found this book highly valuable. <br><br>I'd also like to remind you that my next Account Accelerator training programme starts on 15th March 2022. The programme helps those in agency account management with a systematic approach to adding more value to your existing clients and growing the accounts in nine weeks. You join a group of peers in other agencies where you can share best practice, you get group coaching from me, as I walk you through the different strategies, plus access to an online programme so you can go through the content at your own at your own pace. So if you'd like a quick 20 minute call to see if it's the right fit for you or your agency team, send me an email to jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or book a call on my website <a href="https://www.accountmanagementskills.com">www.accountmanagementskills.com</a>.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 22 Feb 2022 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/lw9rlyl8.mp3" length="66828454" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/06d9a540-8f1b-11ec-a62b-03b6a09772e4/06d9a6a0-8f1b-11ec-b884-f93839c0c6f7.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3341</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 56. I chatted to the author of 'The Art of Client Service',  the legend that is Robert Solomon. 

If you haven't listened to his previous episode, number 46, I'd highly recommend you go back and have a listen because we talked about so many things relating to the account management role, including:
-  why there are fewer account managers doing more with much less experience
- why some people believe the account manager role is becoming extinct
- and why often the work of great account management isn't recognised. 

In this episode,  Robert shares what to look for when hiring a great account manager, what he says to people who think the role of account manager is easy, and how to get respected by your colleagues as an account manager. 

And he shares some fantastic tips for how to manage challenging situations, which he's brought to life by telling a couple of his own account management stories.  As an account manager, I think you'll find this both informative and entertaining. 

If you haven't bought his book, please go and grab a copy of the updated third edition of The Art of Client Service, so many people in account management have found this book highly valuable. 

I'd also like to remind you that my next Account Accelerator training programme starts on 15th March 2022. The programme helps those in agency account management with a systematic approach to adding more value to your existing clients and growing the accounts in nine weeks. You join a group of peers in other agencies where you can share best practice, you get group coaching from me, as I walk you through the different strategies, plus access to an online programme so you can go through the content at your own at your own pace. So if you'd like a quick 20 minute call to see if it's the right fit for you or your agency team, send me an email to jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or book a call on my website www.accountmanagementskills.com.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 56. I chatted to the author of 'The Art of Client Service',  the legend that is Robert Solomon. 

If you haven't listened to his previous episode, number 46, I'd highly recommend you go back and have a listen because we talked about so many things relating to the account management role, including:
-  why there are fewer account managers doing more with much less experience
- why some people believe the account manager role is becoming extinct
- and why often the work of great account management isn't recognised. 

In this episode,  Robert shares what to look for when hiring a great account manager, what he says to people who think the role of account manager is easy, and how to get respected by your colleagues as an account manager. 

And he shares some fantastic tips for how to manage challenging situations, which he's brought to life by telling a couple of his own account management stories.  As an account manager, I think you'll find this both informative and entertaining. 

If you haven't bought his book, please go and grab a copy of the updated third edition of The Art of Client Service, so many people in account management have found this book highly valuable. 

I'd also like to remind you that my next Account Accelerator training programme starts on 15th March 2022. The programme helps those in agency account management with a systematic approach to adding more value to your existing clients and growing the accounts in nine weeks. You join a group of peers in other agencies where you can share best practice, you get group coaching from me, as I walk you through the different strategies, plus access to an online programme so you can go through the content at your own at your own pace. So if you'd like a quick 20 minute call to see if it's the right fit for you or your agency team, send me an email to jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or book a call on my website www.accountmanagementskills.com.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to manage a remote agency team with Fi Edwards and Katie Langdon, Skin &amp; Blister</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/2n6wwz48-how-to-manage-a-remote-agency-team-with-fi-edwards-and-katie-langdon-skin-blister</link>
      <itunes:title>How to manage a remote agency team with Fi Edwards and Katie Langdon, Skin &amp; Blister</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>55</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">j02jj8z0</guid>
      <description>This episode is going to be particularly useful for you if you are managing your agency team remotely and want some tips and ideas for how to keep the team engaged. 

Today's guests Fiona Edwards and Katie Langdon have been running their very successful healthcare communications agency, Skin and Blister remotely years before it became something we were forced to do in 2020 due to the global pandemic.

They share:

* Why they decided from the beginning to have this remote working model
* The key areas they focus on to make remote working successful
* Some practical advice and tips for you if you're struggling to manage your team remotely

and lots of ideas you may find useful for developing your leadership skills.

I hope you enjoy my chat with Fiona and Katie and have come away with some ideas for managing your team.

If you'd like to receive weekly tips about agency account management and get notification of the topics I'm covering on the podcast then please sign up for my newsletter by going to the website www.accountmanagementskills.com.

I am now taking bookings for my next Account Accelerator programme in March.  If you want to expand your current client relationships and you're working in agency client service, my Account Accelerator programme is designed specifically for you. By the end of nine weeks working with me, you'll have a repeatable client centric strategy and a plan to help add more value to the client business and increase revenue from existing accounts. Drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or find more details at www.accountmanagementskills.com/training</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>This episode is going to be particularly useful for you if you are managing your agency team remotely and want some tips and ideas for how to keep the team engaged. <br><br>Today's guests Fiona Edwards and Katie Langdon have been running their very successful healthcare communications agency, Skin and Blister, remotely years before it became something we were forced to do in 2020 due to the global pandemic.<br><br>They share:<br><br>* Why they decided from the beginning to have this remote working model<br>* The key areas they focus on to make remote working successful<br>* Some practical advice and tips for you if you're struggling to manage your team remotely<br><br>and lots of ideas you may find useful for developing your leadership skills.<br><br>I hope you enjoy my chat with Fiona and Katie and come away with some ideas for managing your team.<br><br>If you'd like to receive weekly tips about agency account management and get notification of the topics I'm covering on the podcast then please sign up for my newsletter by going to the website <a href="https://www.accountmanagementskills.com">www.accountmanagementskills.com</a>.<br><br>I am now taking bookings for my next Account Accelerator programme in March.&nbsp; If you want to expand your current client relationships and you're working in agency client service, my Account Accelerator programme is designed specifically for you. By the end of nine weeks working with me, you'll have a repeatable client centric strategy and a plan to help add more value to the client business and increase revenue from existing accounts. Drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or find more details at <a href="https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training">www.accountmanagementskills.com/training</a></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 08 Feb 2022 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/k85k2qy8.mp3" length="51231785" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/763717f0-84ed-11ec-9843-3d1440dce869/76371960-84ed-11ec-b63e-8d1f964e16e2.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2561</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>This episode is going to be particularly useful for you if you are managing your agency team remotely and want some tips and ideas for how to keep the team engaged. 

Today's guests Fiona Edwards and Katie Langdon have been running their very successful healthcare communications agency, Skin and Blister remotely years before it became something we were forced to do in 2020 due to the global pandemic.

They share:

* Why they decided from the beginning to have this remote working model
* The key areas they focus on to make remote working successful
* Some practical advice and tips for you if you're struggling to manage your team remotely

and lots of ideas you may find useful for developing your leadership skills.

I hope you enjoy my chat with Fiona and Katie and have come away with some ideas for managing your team.

If you'd like to receive weekly tips about agency account management and get notification of the topics I'm covering on the podcast then please sign up for my newsletter by going to the website www.accountmanagementskills.com.

I am now taking bookings for my next Account Accelerator programme in March.  If you want to expand your current client relationships and you're working in agency client service, my Account Accelerator programme is designed specifically for you. By the end of nine weeks working with me, you'll have a repeatable client centric strategy and a plan to help add more value to the client business and increase revenue from existing accounts. Drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or find more details at www.accountmanagementskills.com/training</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>This episode is going to be particularly useful for you if you are managing your agency team remotely and want some tips and ideas for how to keep the team engaged. 

Today's guests Fiona Edwards and Katie Langdon have been running their very successful healthcare communications agency, Skin and Blister remotely years before it became something we were forced to do in 2020 due to the global pandemic.

They share:

* Why they decided from the beginning to have this remote working model
* The key areas they focus on to make remote working successful
* Some practical advice and tips for you if you're struggling to manage your team remotely

and lots of ideas you may find useful for developing your leadership skills.

I hope you enjoy my chat with Fiona and Katie and have come away with some ideas for managing your team.

If you'd like to receive weekly tips about agency account management and get notification of the topics I'm covering on the podcast then please sign up for my newsletter by going to the website www.accountmanagementskills.com.

I am now taking bookings for my next Account Accelerator programme in March.  If you want to expand your current client relationships and you're working in agency client service, my Account Accelerator programme is designed specifically for you. By the end of nine weeks working with me, you'll have a repeatable client centric strategy and a plan to help add more value to the client business and increase revenue from existing accounts. Drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or find more details at www.accountmanagementskills.com/training</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to pitch to procurement, with Jessica Bowler and Iris Gatzweiler</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/28x59wln-how-to-pitch-to-procurement-with-jessica-bowler-and-iris-gatzweiler</link>
      <itunes:title>How to pitch to procurement, with Jessica Bowler and Iris Gatzweiler</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>54</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">60mwx8y0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 54.  I spoke to Jessica Bowler and Iris Gatzweiler, two senior procurement clients who shared some insights into the pitching process. It's particularly useful for you if you want to know why clients typically pitch out for business, procurement’s role in the whole pitching process, how the brief is developed and some insight into how the final decision is made. There are also some shared examples of where agencies have performed particularly well in the pitch process. 

Don’t forget to go back to Episode 9, where Jessica and Iris talked about how to approach and develop relationships with procurement. 

And if you want to expand your current client relationships and you're working in agency client service, my Account Accelerator programme is designed specifically for you. By the end of nine weeks working with me, you'll have a repeatable client centric strategy and a plan to help add more value to the client business and increase revenue from existing accounts. Drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or find me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant/</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 54.&nbsp; I spoke to Jessica Bowler and Iris Gatzweiler, two senior procurement clients who shared some insights into the pitching process. It's particularly useful for you if you want to know why clients typically pitch out for business, procurement’s role in the whole pitching process, how the brief is developed and some insight into how the final decision is made. There are also some shared examples of where agencies have performed particularly well in the pitch process. <br><br>Don’t forget to go back to <a href="https://accountmanagementskills.com/how-to-approach-develop-relationships-with-procurement/">Episode 9</a>, where Jessica and Iris talked about how to approach and develop relationships with procurement.&nbsp;<br><br>And if you want to expand your current client relationships and you're working in agency client service, my Account Accelerator programme is designed specifically for you. By the end of nine weeks working with me, you'll have a repeatable client centric strategy and a plan to help add more value to the client business and increase revenue from existing accounts. Drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or find me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant/</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2022 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/l8vzmr28.mp3" length="59464014" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/7e805e20-7860-11ec-93a3-5374ca3e9ab2/7e805f60-7860-11ec-8ffb-edf51dfc3893.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2972</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 54.  I spoke to Jessica Bowler and Iris Gatzweiler, two senior procurement clients who shared some insights into the pitching process. It's particularly useful for you if you want to know why clients typically pitch out for business, procurement’s role in the whole pitching process, how the brief is developed and some insight into how the final decision is made. There are also some shared examples of where agencies have performed particularly well in the pitch process. 

Don’t forget to go back to Episode 9, where Jessica and Iris talked about how to approach and develop relationships with procurement. 

And if you want to expand your current client relationships and you're working in agency client service, my Account Accelerator programme is designed specifically for you. By the end of nine weeks working with me, you'll have a repeatable client centric strategy and a plan to help add more value to the client business and increase revenue from existing accounts. Drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or find me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant/</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 54.  I spoke to Jessica Bowler and Iris Gatzweiler, two senior procurement clients who shared some insights into the pitching process. It's particularly useful for you if you want to know why clients typically pitch out for business, procurement’s role in the whole pitching process, how the brief is developed and some insight into how the final decision is made. There are also some shared examples of where agencies have performed particularly well in the pitch process. 

Don’t forget to go back to Episode 9, where Jessica and Iris talked about how to approach and develop relationships with procurement. 

And if you want to expand your current client relationships and you're working in agency client service, my Account Accelerator programme is designed specifically for you. By the end of nine weeks working with me, you'll have a repeatable client centric strategy and a plan to help add more value to the client business and increase revenue from existing accounts. Drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or find me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant/</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>procurement, creative agency, creative pitch, presentations, pitching</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How can agencies make client relationships more profitable?, with Chris Merrington</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/v851zkq8</link>
      <itunes:title>How can agencies make client relationships more profitable?, with Chris Merrington</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>53</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">81qwkrn1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 53. On today's episode we talk about making client relationships more profitable.

Business growth consultant, Chris Merrington, shares some golden nuggets of advice about how agencies can be more commercially savvy.

We covered so many different areas including:

What clients really value and how to talk the client language
Why you need to raise your prices and how to do it
Why you need to establish and nurture senior client relationships

and so much more...

At the end of the podcast, Chris makes a special offer to send three copies of his book to 3 people selected randomly who sign up to his monthly bulletin.
This offer is valid until the end of January 2022 (although we do say the end of the year, because we recorded this episode in December 2021).

So I'm going to give you a spoiler and suggest while you're listening to this fantastic episode, you go to Chris's website and be one of the first to sign up to his business insights bulletin. Please email him at chris@spring8020.co.uk to let him know you've signed up as a result of listening to this podcast.  http://spring8020.co.uk/.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 53. On today's episode we&nbsp; talk about making client relationships more profitable.<br><br>Business growth consultant, Chris Merrington, shares some golden nuggets of advice about how agencies can be more commercially savvy.<br><br>We covered so many different areas including:<br><br>What clients really value and how to talk the client language<br>Why you need to raise your prices and how to do it<br>Why you need to establish and nurture senior client relationships<br><br>and so much more...<br><br>At the end of the podcast, Chris makes a special offer to send three copies of his book to 3 people selected randomly who sign up to his monthly bulletin.&nbsp;This offer is valid until the end of January 2022 (although we do say the end of the year, because we recorded this episode in December 2021).<br><br>So I'm going to give you a spoiler and suggest while you're listening to this fantastic episode, you go to Chris's website and be one of the first to sign up to his business insights bulletin. Please email him at chris@spring8020.co.uk to let him know you've signed up as a result of listening to this podcast.&nbsp; <a href="http://spring8020.co.uk/">http://spring8020.co.uk/</a>.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2022 08:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/jwqm647w.mp3" length="70771899" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/a1668200-6e29-11ec-84fc-d7d5d35f2877/a16684e0-6e29-11ec-865d-65c947e128fb.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3538</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 53. On today's episode we talk about making client relationships more profitable.

Business growth consultant, Chris Merrington, shares some golden nuggets of advice about how agencies can be more commercially savvy.

We covered so many different areas including:

What clients really value and how to talk the client language
Why you need to raise your prices and how to do it
Why you need to establish and nurture senior client relationships

and so much more...

At the end of the podcast, Chris makes a special offer to send three copies of his book to 3 people selected randomly who sign up to his monthly bulletin.
This offer is valid until the end of January 2022 (although we do say the end of the year, because we recorded this episode in December 2021).

So I'm going to give you a spoiler and suggest while you're listening to this fantastic episode, you go to Chris's website and be one of the first to sign up to his business insights bulletin. Please email him at chris@spring8020.co.uk to let him know you've signed up as a result of listening to this podcast.  http://spring8020.co.uk/.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 53. On today's episode we talk about making client relationships more profitable.

Business growth consultant, Chris Merrington, shares some golden nuggets of advice about how agencies can be more commercially savvy.

We covered so many different areas including:

What clients really value and how to talk the client language
Why you need to raise your prices and how to do it
Why you need to establish and nurture senior client relationships

and so much more...

At the end of the podcast, Chris makes a special offer to send three copies of his book to 3 people selected randomly who sign up to his monthly bulletin.
This offer is valid until the end of January 2022 (although we do say the end of the year, because we recorded this episode in December 2021).

So I'm going to give you a spoiler and suggest while you're listening to this fantastic episode, you go to Chris's website and be one of the first to sign up to his business insights bulletin. Please email him at chris@spring8020.co.uk to let him know you've signed up as a result of listening to this podcast.  http://spring8020.co.uk/.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>marketing, client management, account management, agency profits, client review</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to increase customer engagement by communicating clearly, with linguist Eloise Leeson</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/183v5jmn</link>
      <itunes:title>How to increase customer engagement by communicating clearly, with linguist Eloise Leeson</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>52</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">m0jrnq20</guid>
      <description>Welcome to episode 52. Today we're taking a deep dive into the power of words with linguist Eloise Leeson.  

Eloise works as a freelance communications consultant and copywriter for both agencies and brands and I think you'll find this interesting whether you're thinking about copy in the context of your client's business or your agency's business. 

She shares with me:

1. How to recognise inherent bias in the copy you read 
2. Some common mistakes businesses make with their copy and some practical tips to help you avoid them
3. What holds us back from asking our clients for honest feedback about our business proposition and messaging
4. Insights about what it's like to work as a freelancer

And loads more nuggets of copywriting usefulness. I really enjoyed this chat, I learned a lot and felt I needed to completely overhaul my website copy afterwards!


Please do get in touch with her if you think she could help you in your agency or for your brand communications. 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/eloiseleeson/

If you don't want to miss an episode of this podcast and want to receive tips for improving your agency account management skills, then please go over to my website and sign up for my newsletter at https://www.account managementskills.com.  And make sure to connect with me on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant/

Drop me a line and let me know who you'd like me to interview on this podcast.

And finally if you're an agency account manager or director responsible for growing your existing client accounts and firming up the forecast but you haven't got a clue where to start, my Account Accelerator training programme might be for you. It's a repeatable client-centric approach to adding more value, being more consultative and ultimately increasing revenue and improving forecast certainty for your agency. 
 
It starts on January 27th 2022 and if you'd like more information you can book a call with me to see if it's a good fit for you by going to my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to episode 52. Today we're taking a deep dive into the power of words with linguist Eloise Leeson. &nbsp;<br><br>Eloise works as a freelance communications consultant and copywriter for both agencies and brands and I think you'll find this interesting whether you're thinking about copy in the context of your client's business or your agency's business.&nbsp;<br><br>She shares with me:<br><br>1. How to recognise inherent bias in the copy you read&nbsp;<br>2. Some common mistakes businesses make with their copy and some practical tips to help you avoid them<br>3. What holds us back from asking our clients for honest feedback about our business proposition and messaging<br>4. Insights about what it's like to work as a freelancer<br><br>And loads more nuggets of copywriting usefulness. I really enjoyed this chat, I learned a lot and felt I needed to completely overhaul my website copy afterwards!<br><br>Please do get in touch with her if you think she could help you in your agency or for your brand communications.&nbsp;<br>https://www.linkedin.com/in/eloiseleeson/<br><br>If you don't want to miss an episode of this podcast and want to receive tips for improving your agency account management skills, then please go over to my website and sign up for my newsletter at https://www.account managementskills.com.&nbsp; And make sure to connect with me on LinkedIn:<br>https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant/<br><br>Drop me a line and let me know who you'd like me to interview on this podcast.<br><br>And finally if you're an agency account manager or director responsible for growing your existing client accounts and firming up the forecast but you haven't got a clue where to start, my Account Accelerator training programme might be for you. It's a repeatable client-centric approach to adding more value, being more consultative and ultimately increasing revenue and improving forecast certainty for your agency.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>It starts on January 27th 2022 and if you'd like more information you can book a call with me to see if it's a good fit for you by going to my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2021 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/l89zxj2w.mp3" length="60064308" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/5d257cd0-5e7a-11ec-9bd4-3f648de7cb38/5d257e20-5e7a-11ec-a1e3-2de4b4bad8e2.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3003</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to episode 52. Today we're taking a deep dive into the power of words with linguist Eloise Leeson.  

Eloise works as a freelance communications consultant and copywriter for both agencies and brands and I think you'll find this interesting whether you're thinking about copy in the context of your client's business or your agency's business. 

She shares with me:

1. How to recognise inherent bias in the copy you read 
2. Some common mistakes businesses make with their copy and some practical tips to help you avoid them
3. What holds us back from asking our clients for honest feedback about our business proposition and messaging
4. Insights about what it's like to work as a freelancer

And loads more nuggets of copywriting usefulness. I really enjoyed this chat, I learned a lot and felt I needed to completely overhaul my website copy afterwards!


Please do get in touch with her if you think she could help you in your agency or for your brand communications. 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/eloiseleeson/

If you don't want to miss an episode of this podcast and want to receive tips for improving your agency account management skills, then please go over to my website and sign up for my newsletter at https://www.account managementskills.com.  And make sure to connect with me on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant/

Drop me a line and let me know who you'd like me to interview on this podcast.

And finally if you're an agency account manager or director responsible for growing your existing client accounts and firming up the forecast but you haven't got a clue where to start, my Account Accelerator training programme might be for you. It's a repeatable client-centric approach to adding more value, being more consultative and ultimately increasing revenue and improving forecast certainty for your agency. 
 
It starts on January 27th 2022 and if you'd like more information you can book a call with me to see if it's a good fit for you by going to my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to episode 52. Today we're taking a deep dive into the power of words with linguist Eloise Leeson.  

Eloise works as a freelance communications consultant and copywriter for both agencies and brands and I think you'll find this interesting whether you're thinking about copy in the context of your client's business or your agency's business. 

She shares with me:

1. How to recognise inherent bias in the copy you read 
2. Some common mistakes businesses make with their copy and some practical tips to help you avoid them
3. What holds us back from asking our clients for honest feedback about our business proposition and messaging
4. Insights about what it's like to work as a freelancer

And loads more nuggets of copywriting usefulness. I really enjoyed this chat, I learned a lot and felt I needed to completely overhaul my website copy afterwards!


Please do get in touch with her if you think she could help you in your agency or for your brand communications. 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/eloiseleeson/

If you don't want to miss an episode of this podcast and want to receive tips for improving your agency account management skills, then please go over to my website and sign up for my newsletter at https://www.account managementskills.com.  And make sure to connect with me on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant/

Drop me a line and let me know who you'd like me to interview on this podcast.

And finally if you're an agency account manager or director responsible for growing your existing client accounts and firming up the forecast but you haven't got a clue where to start, my Account Accelerator training programme might be for you. It's a repeatable client-centric approach to adding more value, being more consultative and ultimately increasing revenue and improving forecast certainty for your agency. 
 
It starts on January 27th 2022 and if you'd like more information you can book a call with me to see if it's a good fit for you by going to my website https://www.accountmanagementskills.com.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>communication, linguistics, creative agency, account manager</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What agencies and brands need to know about web3, with Jeff Kauffman Jr.</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/rn763948</link>
      <itunes:title>What agencies and brands need to know about web3, with Jeff Kauffman Jr.</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>51</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">k18274y1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 51. This chat is going to be particularly interesting for you if you're curious where agencies will be headed in the next 10 years. From everything I've researched over the last couple of months, the biggest change coming for agencies in the next decade is web3. Web3 is the next evolution of the Internet. And here to enlighten us about what web3 is, and how agencies need to be prepared for it is Jeff Kauffman Jr, Founder and CEO of Parachute, which builds and invests in web3 solutions for marketers and advertisers. If web3 is an area you want to keep your eye on, then join the Jump community and hundreds of other agency people and marketers who also want to stay ahead of what's changing. There's no such thing as a silly question in the community either. I've asked a few. We’re all learning together as web3 unfolds. 

If you're an agency account manager and you want to invest in your career, and upgrade your account management skills, my next Account Accelerator programme starts on 27th January 2022. You'll work with me for nine weeks and gain the skills and a repeatable client centric approach to adding more value to your existing clients business, and growing your accounts. If this sounds interesting, then drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com and we can see if it's a good fit for you.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 51. This chat is going to be particularly interesting for you if you're curious where agencies will be headed in the next 10 years. From everything I've researched over the last couple of months, the biggest change coming for agencies in the next decade is web3. Web3 is the next evolution of the Internet. And here to enlighten us about what web3 is, and how agencies need to be prepared for it is <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffkauffmanjr/">Jeff Kauffman Jr</a>, Founder and CEO of <a href="https://www.parachute.xyz">Parachute</a>, which builds and invests in web3 solutions for marketers and advertisers. If web3 is an area you want to keep your eye on, then join the <a href="https://www.joinjump.community/">Jump community</a> and hundreds of other agency people and marketers who also want to stay ahead of what's changing. There's no such thing as a silly question in the community either. I've asked a few. We’re all learning together as web3 unfolds.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>If you're an agency account manager and you want to invest in your career, and upgrade your account management skills, my next Account Accelerator programme starts on 27th January 2022. You'll work with me for nine weeks and gain the skills and a repeatable client centric approach to adding more value to your existing clients business, and growing your accounts. If this sounds interesting, then drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com and we can see if it's a good fit for you.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2021 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/lw9z32j8.mp3" length="71150675" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/310a4080-5822-11ec-9191-b58d81abd5a7/310a41e0-5822-11ec-9cd2-13fbc93bb45a.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3557</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 51. This chat is going to be particularly interesting for you if you're curious where agencies will be headed in the next 10 years. From everything I've researched over the last couple of months, the biggest change coming for agencies in the next decade is web3. Web3 is the next evolution of the Internet. And here to enlighten us about what web3 is, and how agencies need to be prepared for it is Jeff Kauffman Jr, Founder and CEO of Parachute, which builds and invests in web3 solutions for marketers and advertisers. If web3 is an area you want to keep your eye on, then join the Jump community and hundreds of other agency people and marketers who also want to stay ahead of what's changing. There's no such thing as a silly question in the community either. I've asked a few. We’re all learning together as web3 unfolds. 

If you're an agency account manager and you want to invest in your career, and upgrade your account management skills, my next Account Accelerator programme starts on 27th January 2022. You'll work with me for nine weeks and gain the skills and a repeatable client centric approach to adding more value to your existing clients business, and growing your accounts. If this sounds interesting, then drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com and we can see if it's a good fit for you.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 51. This chat is going to be particularly interesting for you if you're curious where agencies will be headed in the next 10 years. From everything I've researched over the last couple of months, the biggest change coming for agencies in the next decade is web3. Web3 is the next evolution of the Internet. And here to enlighten us about what web3 is, and how agencies need to be prepared for it is Jeff Kauffman Jr, Founder and CEO of Parachute, which builds and invests in web3 solutions for marketers and advertisers. If web3 is an area you want to keep your eye on, then join the Jump community and hundreds of other agency people and marketers who also want to stay ahead of what's changing. There's no such thing as a silly question in the community either. I've asked a few. We’re all learning together as web3 unfolds. 

If you're an agency account manager and you want to invest in your career, and upgrade your account management skills, my next Account Accelerator programme starts on 27th January 2022. You'll work with me for nine weeks and gain the skills and a repeatable client centric approach to adding more value to your existing clients business, and growing your accounts. If this sounds interesting, then drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com and we can see if it's a good fit for you.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The AI-driven agency, with Tom Ollerton</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/r8k292zn</link>
      <itunes:title>The AI-driven agency, with Tom Ollerton</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>50</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">71wrxr20</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 50. This milestone episode is with Tom Ollerton, Founder of  Automated Creative. 

If you're interested in seeing how artificial intelligence is being used by agencies right now, with some of the world's biggest client brands, to improve advertising performance, I think you're going to love this episode. 

If you're an account manager, you're looking for a new role, who likes the sound of working with such cutting edge technology and making an impact with his blue chip clients please visit my website and sign up for my newsletter at www.accountmanagementskills.com. You'll be sent regular updates about each of the podcast episodes, and tips for improving your account management skills.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 50. This milestone episode is with Tom Ollerton, Founder of Automated Creative.&nbsp;<br><br><br>If you're interested in seeing how artificial intelligence is being used by agencies right now, with some of the world's biggest client brands, to improve advertising performance, I think you're going to love this episode.&nbsp;<br><br><br>If you're an account manager, you're looking for a new role, who likes the sound of working with such cutting edge technology and making an impact with his blue chip clients please visit my website and sign up for my newsletter at www.accountmanagementskills.com. You'll be sent regular updates about each of the podcast episodes, and tips for improving your account management skills.&nbsp;<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 2021 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/58r763rw.mp3" length="43535067" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/8236ead0-4b85-11ec-9d19-c55ce3762186/8236ec30-4b85-11ec-8380-437f75f84aa0.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2176</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 50. This milestone episode is with Tom Ollerton, Founder of  Automated Creative. 

If you're interested in seeing how artificial intelligence is being used by agencies right now, with some of the world's biggest client brands, to improve advertising performance, I think you're going to love this episode. 

If you're an account manager, you're looking for a new role, who likes the sound of working with such cutting edge technology and making an impact with his blue chip clients please visit my website and sign up for my newsletter at www.accountmanagementskills.com. You'll be sent regular updates about each of the podcast episodes, and tips for improving your account management skills.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 50. This milestone episode is with Tom Ollerton, Founder of  Automated Creative. 

If you're interested in seeing how artificial intelligence is being used by agencies right now, with some of the world's biggest client brands, to improve advertising performance, I think you're going to love this episode. 

If you're an account manager, you're looking for a new role, who likes the sound of working with such cutting edge technology and making an impact with his blue chip clients please visit my website and sign up for my newsletter at www.accountmanagementskills.com. You'll be sent regular updates about each of the podcast episodes, and tips for improving your account management skills.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>AI, advertising, marketing, automation</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to grow your independent agency, with Agencynomics co-author Peter Hoole</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/rnk2mkl8</link>
      <itunes:title>How to grow your independent agency, with Agencynomics co-author Peter Hoole</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>49</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">70wr7zj1</guid>
      <description>Today's episode will be particularly beneficial for you if you're an agency owner looking to grow. I chat to ‘Agencynomics’ co-author, Peter Hoole, about some common challenges faced by agency owners today, when it comes to business growth. 

We also talk about:
•	the importance of looking at your team's skill set to make sure everyone's sitting in the right seats
•	what point in the agency's revenue growth does an agency typically employ their first account manager?
•	And the implications of having a hybrid account manager (someone who plays the combined account manager and project manager role, versus keeping the roles separate)

Peter shares so many tips and lots of value during this interview. Don't forget to grab a copy of the book ‘Agencynomics’. I really don't know any agency owner who hasn't said it was a brilliant read.

If you're an agency owner, and you want more certainty on your forecast when it comes to existing client growth, or you're an ambitious account manager who wants to know how to grow a client account, without being pushy and salesy, then my nine week Account Accelerator programme might be for you. 

You'll come away with a client centric system and repeatable approach to client growth. Drop me an email at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com and we can see if it's a good fit for you or your agency.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Today's episode will be particularly beneficial for you if you're an agency owner looking to grow. I chat to ‘Agencynomics’ co-author, Peter Hoole, about some common challenges faced by agency owners today, when it comes to business growth.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>We also talk about:<br><br></div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;the importance of looking at your team's skill set to make sure everyone's sitting in the right seats</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;what point in the agency's revenue growth does an agency typically employ their first account manager?</div><div>·&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;And the implications of having a hybrid account manager (someone who plays the combined account manager and project manager role, versus keeping the roles separate)<br><br></div><div>Peter shares so many tips and lots of value during this interview. Don't forget to grab a copy of the book ‘Agencynomics’. I really don't know any agency owner who hasn't said it was a brilliant read.<br><br></div><div>If you're an agency owner, and you want more certainty on your forecast when it comes to existing client growth, or you're an ambitious account manager who wants to know how to grow a client account, without being pushy and salesy, then my nine week Account Accelerator programme might be for you.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>You'll come away with a client centric system and repeatable approach to client growth. Drop me an email at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com and we can see if it's a good fit for you or your agency.&nbsp;<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2021 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/58lz1r28.mp3" length="70117271" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/e7e29e60-4163-11ec-994b-8b51cafac42f/e7e29ff0-4163-11ec-8af2-0914d7c426c3.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3505</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Today's episode will be particularly beneficial for you if you're an agency owner looking to grow. I chat to ‘Agencynomics’ co-author, Peter Hoole, about some common challenges faced by agency owners today, when it comes to business growth. 

We also talk about:
•	the importance of looking at your team's skill set to make sure everyone's sitting in the right seats
•	what point in the agency's revenue growth does an agency typically employ their first account manager?
•	And the implications of having a hybrid account manager (someone who plays the combined account manager and project manager role, versus keeping the roles separate)

Peter shares so many tips and lots of value during this interview. Don't forget to grab a copy of the book ‘Agencynomics’. I really don't know any agency owner who hasn't said it was a brilliant read.

If you're an agency owner, and you want more certainty on your forecast when it comes to existing client growth, or you're an ambitious account manager who wants to know how to grow a client account, without being pushy and salesy, then my nine week Account Accelerator programme might be for you. 

You'll come away with a client centric system and repeatable approach to client growth. Drop me an email at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com and we can see if it's a good fit for you or your agency.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Today's episode will be particularly beneficial for you if you're an agency owner looking to grow. I chat to ‘Agencynomics’ co-author, Peter Hoole, about some common challenges faced by agency owners today, when it comes to business growth. 

We also talk about:
•	the importance of looking at your team's skill set to make sure everyone's sitting in the right seats
•	what point in the agency's revenue growth does an agency typically employ their first account manager?
•	And the implications of having a hybrid account manager (someone who plays the combined account manager and project manager role, versus keeping the roles separate)

Peter shares so many tips and lots of value during this interview. Don't forget to grab a copy of the book ‘Agencynomics’. I really don't know any agency owner who hasn't said it was a brilliant read.

If you're an agency owner, and you want more certainty on your forecast when it comes to existing client growth, or you're an ambitious account manager who wants to know how to grow a client account, without being pushy and salesy, then my nine week Account Accelerator programme might be for you. 

You'll come away with a client centric system and repeatable approach to client growth. Drop me an email at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com and we can see if it's a good fit for you or your agency.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How agencies can use LinkedIn for growth, with James Potter, The LinkedIn Man</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/1npx46rn</link>
      <itunes:title>How agencies can use LinkedIn for growth, with James Potter, The LinkedIn Man</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>48</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">z0r59kl1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 48. This episode is for you if you want to use LinkedIn in more effectively to grow your business, or to help your account management career.

James Potter enlightens me on so many things I didn't realise about LinkedIn. We talk about:

- why it's useful to know who could be looking at your profile
- what typically holds business leaders back from posting
- how to avoid making awful faux pas when connecting with people
- the benefits of being more selective about who you add to your network
- and lots more nuggets of usefulness.

If you're in an agency account management role, and you're responsible for forecasting and firming up the account growth, I'm running my next Account Accelerator programme starting on 27th January 2022. By the end of nine weeks working with me, you'll have a repeatable, client centric approach to increasing revenue from your existing accounts. Now, if this sounds like you, or perhaps someone in your account management team, then please get in touch and let's see if it's a right fit for you. Email me at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or connect with me on LinkedIn. </description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 48. This episode is for you if you want to use LinkedIn in more effectively to grow your business, or to help your account management career.<br><br></div><div><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/thelinkedinman">James Potter</a> enlightens me on so many things I didn't realise about LinkedIn. We talk about:<br><br></div><ul><li>why it's useful to know who could be looking at your profile</li><li>what typically holds business leaders back from posting</li><li>how to avoid making awful faux pas when connecting with people</li><li>the benefits of being more selective about who you add to your network</li><li>and lots more nuggets of usefulness.</li></ul><div><br>If you're in an agency account management role, and you're responsible for forecasting and firming up the account growth, I'm running my next <a href="https://accountmanagementskills.com/training/">Account Accelerator programme</a> starting on 27th January 2022. By the end of nine weeks working with me, you'll have a repeatable, client centric approach to increasing revenue from your existing accounts. Now, if this sounds like you, or perhaps someone in your account management team, then please get in touch and let's see if it's a right fit for you. Email me at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or connect with me on <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyplant">LinkedIn</a>.&nbsp;<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 02 Nov 2021 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/5wrr25rw.mp3" length="58584210" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/76d56d40-3724-11ec-9abe-dbac80090955/76d56ea0-3724-11ec-b5a9-df1717a2dacc.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2929</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 48. This episode is for you if you want to use LinkedIn in more effectively to grow your business, or to help your account management career.

James Potter enlightens me on so many things I didn't realise about LinkedIn. We talk about:

- why it's useful to know who could be looking at your profile
- what typically holds business leaders back from posting
- how to avoid making awful faux pas when connecting with people
- the benefits of being more selective about who you add to your network
- and lots more nuggets of usefulness.

If you're in an agency account management role, and you're responsible for forecasting and firming up the account growth, I'm running my next Account Accelerator programme starting on 27th January 2022. By the end of nine weeks working with me, you'll have a repeatable, client centric approach to increasing revenue from your existing accounts. Now, if this sounds like you, or perhaps someone in your account management team, then please get in touch and let's see if it's a right fit for you. Email me at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or connect with me on LinkedIn. </itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 48. This episode is for you if you want to use LinkedIn in more effectively to grow your business, or to help your account management career.

James Potter enlightens me on so many things I didn't realise about LinkedIn. We talk about:

- why it's useful to know who could be looking at your profile
- what typically holds business leaders back from posting
- how to avoid making awful faux pas when connecting with people
- the benefits of being more selective about who you add to your network
- and lots more nuggets of usefulness.

If you're in an agency account management role, and you're responsible for forecasting and firming up the account growth, I'm running my next Account Accelerator programme starting on 27th January 2022. By the end of nine weeks working with me, you'll have a repeatable, client centric approach to increasing revenue from your existing accounts. Now, if this sounds like you, or perhaps someone in your account management team, then please get in touch and let's see if it's a right fit for you. Email me at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or connect with me on LinkedIn. </itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How team profiling can accelerate your agency's growth, with Osmaan Sharif</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/68r4zqv8</link>
      <itunes:title>How team profiling can accelerate your agency's growth, with Osmaan Sharif</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>47</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">80594w50</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 47. Have you ever wondered why sometimes you're just in flow at work? You're doing 
something you love, time seems to just stand still. And you feel like you could do this task for ages. And sometimes 
you're doing tasks that feel heavy, hard, difficult. And you look at someone else doing it and then think, why did why does that come so easy. 

I've invited business and performance coach Osman Sharif, to talk to us about how understanding your own unique
superpower can help you enjoy what you do at work, get the best results, and embrace your unique talents. And 
ultimately, this makes your business and your career much more satisfying.

If you're working in an agency environment in account management and you're ambitious, you want to accelerate your career and you want to increase your confidence with clients and improve your consultancy skills, so you can add more value to your client relationships and grow your accounts then my next Account Accelerator programme starts on January 27th 2022. If you'd like to know more, then please get in contact and let's see if it's a good fit for you. You can contact me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant or you can drop me an email at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 47. Have you ever wondered why sometimes you're just in flow at work? You're doing something you love, time seems to just stand still. And you feel like you could do this task for ages. And sometimes you're doing tasks that feel heavy, hard, difficult. And you look at someone else doing it and then think, why did why does that come so easy.&nbsp;<br><br>I've invited business and performance coach Osman Sharif, to talk to us about how understanding your own unique superpower can help you enjoy what you do at work, get the best results, and embrace your unique talents. And ultimately, this makes your business and your career much more satisfying.<br><br>If you're working in an agency environment in account management and you're ambitious, you want to accelerate your career and you want to increase your confidence with clients and improve your consultancy skills, so you can add more value to your client relationships and grow your accounts then my next Account Accelerator programme starts on January 27th 2022. If you'd like to know more, then please get in contact and let's see if it's a good fit for you. You can contact me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant or you can drop me an email at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2021 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/lw91mnyw.mp3" length="67537940" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/01fb67c0-2f60-11ec-aca9-ab3417f7ed41/01fb6940-2f60-11ec-a5f9-a9c446720dc6.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3376</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 47. Have you ever wondered why sometimes you're just in flow at work? You're doing 
something you love, time seems to just stand still. And you feel like you could do this task for ages. And sometimes 
you're doing tasks that feel heavy, hard, difficult. And you look at someone else doing it and then think, why did why does that come so easy. 

I've invited business and performance coach Osman Sharif, to talk to us about how understanding your own unique
superpower can help you enjoy what you do at work, get the best results, and embrace your unique talents. And 
ultimately, this makes your business and your career much more satisfying.

If you're working in an agency environment in account management and you're ambitious, you want to accelerate your career and you want to increase your confidence with clients and improve your consultancy skills, so you can add more value to your client relationships and grow your accounts then my next Account Accelerator programme starts on January 27th 2022. If you'd like to know more, then please get in contact and let's see if it's a good fit for you. You can contact me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant or you can drop me an email at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 47. Have you ever wondered why sometimes you're just in flow at work? You're doing 
something you love, time seems to just stand still. And you feel like you could do this task for ages. And sometimes 
you're doing tasks that feel heavy, hard, difficult. And you look at someone else doing it and then think, why did why does that come so easy. 

I've invited business and performance coach Osman Sharif, to talk to us about how understanding your own unique
superpower can help you enjoy what you do at work, get the best results, and embrace your unique talents. And 
ultimately, this makes your business and your career much more satisfying.

If you're working in an agency environment in account management and you're ambitious, you want to accelerate your career and you want to increase your confidence with clients and improve your consultancy skills, so you can add more value to your client relationships and grow your accounts then my next Account Accelerator programme starts on January 27th 2022. If you'd like to know more, then please get in contact and let's see if it's a good fit for you. You can contact me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant or you can drop me an email at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The Art of Client Service, with Robert Solomon</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/2863lv2n</link>
      <itunes:title>The Art of Client Service, with Robert Solomon</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>46</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">j12xl3k1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 46, with Robert Solomon. He's the author of the must read book for anyone in agency account management, 'The Art of Client Service'. 

In this chat, we talked about:
-  why there are fewer account managers doing more with much less experience
-  why some people believe the account manager role is becoming extinct and what we both think about that
- and why often the work of great account management isn't recognised. 

Robert also talks us through his approach to managing difficult client conversations. And we talk about so much more. 

Robert's book, along with his workshops and his coaching have become foundational to building a new culture of client service and collaboration at many organisations of all different types and sizes and geographies. 

Robert is the founder of Solomon Strategic, and he provides marketing counsel to ad agencies, clients, and those in marketing looking for behaviour change. Robert, in his career, was a senior executive at several US based international advertising and marketing agencies. He was president and CEO of Rapp New York, president of direct and digital marketing at Ammirati Puris Lintas, General Manager of FCB Direct West and Senior Vice President and associate partner at Digitas.

In this chat, we talked about:
-  why there are fewer account managers doing more with much less experience
-  why some people believe the account manager role is becoming extinct and what we both think about that
- and why often the work of great account management isn't recognised. 

Robert also talks us through his approach to managing difficult client conversations. And we talk about so much more. 

Robert's book, along with his workshops and his coaching have become foundational to building a new culture of client service and collaboration at many organisations of all different types and sizes and geographies. 

Robert is the founder of Solomon Strategic, and he provides marketing counsel to ad agencies, clients, and those in marketing looking for behaviour change. Robert, in his career, was a senior executive at several US based international advertising and marketing agencies. He was president and CEO of Rapp New York, president of direct and digital marketing at Ammirati Puris Lintas, General Manager of FCB Direct West and Senior Vice President and associate partner at Digitas.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 46, with Robert Solomon. He's the author of the must read book for anyone in agency account management, 'The Art of Client Service'.&nbsp;<br><br><br><br>In this chat, we talked about:<br>-&nbsp; why there are fewer account managers doing more with much less experience<br>-&nbsp; why some people believe the account manager role is becoming extinct and what we both think about that<br>- and why often the work of great account management isn't recognised.&nbsp;<br><br><br>Robert also talks us through his approach to managing difficult client conversations. And we talk about so much more.&nbsp;<br><br><br>Robert's book, along with his workshops and his coaching have become foundational to building a new culture of client service and collaboration at many organisations of all different types and sizes and geographies.&nbsp;<br><br><br>Robert is the founder of Solomon Strategic, and he provides marketing counsel to ad agencies, clients, and those in marketing looking for behaviour change. Robert, in his career, was a senior executive at several US based international advertising and marketing agencies. He was president and CEO of Rapp New York, president of direct and digital marketing at Ammirati Puris Lintas, General Manager of FCB Direct West and Senior Vice President and associate partner at Digitas.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2021 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/jwyk71pw.mp3" length="70013826" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/0afd80d0-24fa-11ec-97c3-29c87717b146/0afdbce0-24fa-11ec-a317-ad349180a80c.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3500</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 46, with Robert Solomon. He's the author of the must read book for anyone in agency account management, 'The Art of Client Service'. 

In this chat, we talked about:
-  why there are fewer account managers doing more with much less experience
-  why some people believe the account manager role is becoming extinct and what we both think about that
- and why often the work of great account management isn't recognised. 

Robert also talks us through his approach to managing difficult client conversations. And we talk about so much more. 

Robert's book, along with his workshops and his coaching have become foundational to building a new culture of client service and collaboration at many organisations of all different types and sizes and geographies. 

Robert is the founder of Solomon Strategic, and he provides marketing counsel to ad agencies, clients, and those in marketing looking for behaviour change. Robert, in his career, was a senior executive at several US based international advertising and marketing agencies. He was president and CEO of Rapp New York, president of direct and digital marketing at Ammirati Puris Lintas, General Manager of FCB Direct West and Senior Vice President and associate partner at Digitas.

In this chat, we talked about:
-  why there are fewer account managers doing more with much less experience
-  why some people believe the account manager role is becoming extinct and what we both think about that
- and why often the work of great account management isn't recognised. 

Robert also talks us through his approach to managing difficult client conversations. And we talk about so much more. 

Robert's book, along with his workshops and his coaching have become foundational to building a new culture of client service and collaboration at many organisations of all different types and sizes and geographies. 

Robert is the founder of Solomon Strategic, and he provides marketing counsel to ad agencies, clients, and those in marketing looking for behaviour change. Robert, in his career, was a senior executive at several US based international advertising and marketing agencies. He was president and CEO of Rapp New York, president of direct and digital marketing at Ammirati Puris Lintas, General Manager of FCB Direct West and Senior Vice President and associate partner at Digitas.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 46, with Robert Solomon. He's the author of the must read book for anyone in agency account management, 'The Art of Client Service'. 

In this chat, we talked about:
-  why there are fewer account managers doing more with much less experience
-  why some people believe the account manager role is becoming extinct and what we both think about that
- and why often the work of great account management isn't recognised. 

Robert also talks us through his approach to managing difficult client conversations. And we talk about so much more. 

Robert's book, along with his workshops and his coaching have become foundational to building a new culture of client service and collaboration at many organisations of all different types and sizes and geographies. 

Robert is the founder of Solomon Strategic, and he provides marketing counsel to ad agencies, clients, and those in marketing looking for behaviour change. Robert, in his career, was a senior executive at several US based international advertising and marketing agencies. He was president and CEO of Rapp New York, president of direct and digital marketing at Ammirati Puris Lintas, General Manager of FCB Direct West and Senior Vice President and associate partner at Digitas.

In this chat, we talked about:
-  why there are fewer account managers doing more with much less experience
-  why some people believe the account manager role is becoming extinct and what we both think about that
- and why often the work of great account management isn't recognised. 

Robert also talks us through his approach to managing difficult client conversations. And we talk about so much more. 

Robert's book, along with his workshops and his coaching have become foundational to building a new culture of client service and collaboration at many organisations of all different types and sizes and geographies. 

Robert is the founder of Solomon Strategic, and he provides marketing counsel to ad agencies, clients, and those in marketing looking for behaviour change. Robert, in his career, was a senior executive at several US based international advertising and marketing agencies. He was president and CEO of Rapp New York, president of direct and digital marketing at Ammirati Puris Lintas, General Manager of FCB Direct West and Senior Vice President and associate partner at Digitas.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>account manager, creative agency, agency growth, marketing agency, advertising agency, account management training</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What agencies can learn from management consultancies about account growth</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/xny5z5ln</link>
      <itunes:title>What agencies can learn from management consultancies about account growth</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>45</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">l14yxyw0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 45. Today's chat with Richard Long, Director of Strategy &amp; Communications at earthware will be particularly interesting for you if you're curious to understand how management consultancies operate versus agencies, and why they could potentially be posing a threat to your agency business. 

This is going to be particularly relevant if you're working in healthcare communications, because Richard currently works for an independent healthcare digital agency, but was also working for a management consultancy where he was setting up the life science arm. 

Richard shares insight into:

- how management consulting consultancies operate
- what a land and expand approach looks like
- and how you can differentiate yourself from any management consultancy that might be posing a threat to your client business. 

He also shared some top tips from his many years working in account management. I hope you enjoy this chat with Richard.

If you're working in an agency account management role at any level, and you'd like a non salesy approach, to add more value to your clients and grow those existing accounts, then check out my Account Accelerator programme, starting again on 23rd September. If you'd like more details, drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com and we can see whether it's right for you.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 45. Today's chat with Richard Long, Director of Strategy &amp; Communications at earthware will be particularly interesting for you if you're curious to understand how management consultancies operate versus agencies, and why they could potentially be posing a threat to your agency business.&nbsp;<br><br>This is going to be particularly relevant if you're working in healthcare communications, because Richard currently works for an independent healthcare digital agency, but was also working for a management consultancy where he was setting up the life science arm.&nbsp;<br><br>Richard shares insight into:<br><br>- how management consulting consultancies operate<br>- what a land and expand approach looks like<br>- and how you can differentiate yourself from any management consultancy that might be posing a threat to your client business.&nbsp;<br><br>He also shared some top tips from his many years working in account management. I hope you enjoy this chat with Richard.<br><br>If you're working in an agency account management role at any level, and you'd like a non salesy approach, to add more value to your clients and grow those existing accounts, then check out my Account Accelerator programme, starting again on 23rd September. If you'd like more details, drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com and we can see whether it's right for you.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2021 12:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/2wkv3zk8.mp3" length="60341206" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/e8cb4e70-0733-11ec-8a38-8b077d7ca651/e8cb4ff0-0733-11ec-a070-b78462f09f48.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3016</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 45. Today's chat with Richard Long, Director of Strategy &amp; Communications at earthware will be particularly interesting for you if you're curious to understand how management consultancies operate versus agencies, and why they could potentially be posing a threat to your agency business. 

This is going to be particularly relevant if you're working in healthcare communications, because Richard currently works for an independent healthcare digital agency, but was also working for a management consultancy where he was setting up the life science arm. 

Richard shares insight into:

- how management consulting consultancies operate
- what a land and expand approach looks like
- and how you can differentiate yourself from any management consultancy that might be posing a threat to your client business. 

He also shared some top tips from his many years working in account management. I hope you enjoy this chat with Richard.

If you're working in an agency account management role at any level, and you'd like a non salesy approach, to add more value to your clients and grow those existing accounts, then check out my Account Accelerator programme, starting again on 23rd September. If you'd like more details, drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com and we can see whether it's right for you.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 45. Today's chat with Richard Long, Director of Strategy &amp; Communications at earthware will be particularly interesting for you if you're curious to understand how management consultancies operate versus agencies, and why they could potentially be posing a threat to your agency business. 

This is going to be particularly relevant if you're working in healthcare communications, because Richard currently works for an independent healthcare digital agency, but was also working for a management consultancy where he was setting up the life science arm. 

Richard shares insight into:

- how management consulting consultancies operate
- what a land and expand approach looks like
- and how you can differentiate yourself from any management consultancy that might be posing a threat to your client business. 

He also shared some top tips from his many years working in account management. I hope you enjoy this chat with Richard.

If you're working in an agency account management role at any level, and you'd like a non salesy approach, to add more value to your clients and grow those existing accounts, then check out my Account Accelerator programme, starting again on 23rd September. If you'd like more details, drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com and we can see whether it's right for you.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to systemise account management in your agency, with Alex Raymond</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/0njvjx2n</link>
      <itunes:title>How to systemise account management in your agency, with Alex Raymond</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>44</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">40pynp41</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 44. In this episode, I talk to Alex Raymond from Kapta about everything to do with account management processes. Not project management systems, not CRM systems, but having a dedicated system to guide the agency account management team, when it comes to managing and delve developing existing client relationships. Kapta is a key account management platform. 

We chatted about:
- the importance of having a client development plan
- the value of running quarterly business reviews
- how to avoid client churn
- and also how account management's going to evolve over the next three to five years. 

I hope you enjoy my chat with Alex and you can check out the details for KAMCon on the website which is https://kapta.com/kamcon 

A reminder also that my next Account Accelerator programme starts on 23rd of September. This is a transformational programme for agency account managers and account directors to take your agency from unpredictable project revenue to more predictable account growth. It's a playbook for growing existing business, a step by step process and a toolbox of strategies that you can take back to your agency and apply. 
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training  On this page you'll also find testimonials from account directors and account managers who've been through the programme.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 44. In this episode, I talk to Alex Raymond from Kapta about everything to do with account management processes. Not project management systems, not CRM systems, but having a dedicated system to guide the agency account management team, when it comes to managing and delve developing existing client relationships. Kapta is a key account management platform.&nbsp;<br><br>We chatted about:<br>- the importance of having a client development plan<br>- the value of running quarterly business reviews<br>- how to avoid client churn<br>- and also how account management's going to evolve over the next three to five years.&nbsp;<br><br>I hope you enjoy my chat with Alex and you can check out the details for KAMCon on the website which is https://kapta.com/kamcon&nbsp;<br><br>A reminder also that my next Account Accelerator programme starts on 23rd of September. This is a transformational programme for agency account managers and account directors to take your agency from unpredictable project revenue to more predictable account growth. It's a playbook for growing existing business, a step by step process and a toolbox of strategies that you can take back to your agency and apply.&nbsp;<br>https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training&nbsp; On this page you'll also find testimonials from account directors and account managers who've been through the programme.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 24 Aug 2021 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/lw410l38.mp3" length="60686022" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/6a513ad0-03ed-11ec-8187-ebfdf3eec16d/6a513c20-03ed-11ec-9054-3da868a81d4b.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3034</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 44. In this episode, I talk to Alex Raymond from Kapta about everything to do with account management processes. Not project management systems, not CRM systems, but having a dedicated system to guide the agency account management team, when it comes to managing and delve developing existing client relationships. Kapta is a key account management platform. 

We chatted about:
- the importance of having a client development plan
- the value of running quarterly business reviews
- how to avoid client churn
- and also how account management's going to evolve over the next three to five years. 

I hope you enjoy my chat with Alex and you can check out the details for KAMCon on the website which is https://kapta.com/kamcon 

A reminder also that my next Account Accelerator programme starts on 23rd of September. This is a transformational programme for agency account managers and account directors to take your agency from unpredictable project revenue to more predictable account growth. It's a playbook for growing existing business, a step by step process and a toolbox of strategies that you can take back to your agency and apply. 
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training  On this page you'll also find testimonials from account directors and account managers who've been through the programme.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 44. In this episode, I talk to Alex Raymond from Kapta about everything to do with account management processes. Not project management systems, not CRM systems, but having a dedicated system to guide the agency account management team, when it comes to managing and delve developing existing client relationships. Kapta is a key account management platform. 

We chatted about:
- the importance of having a client development plan
- the value of running quarterly business reviews
- how to avoid client churn
- and also how account management's going to evolve over the next three to five years. 

I hope you enjoy my chat with Alex and you can check out the details for KAMCon on the website which is https://kapta.com/kamcon 

A reminder also that my next Account Accelerator programme starts on 23rd of September. This is a transformational programme for agency account managers and account directors to take your agency from unpredictable project revenue to more predictable account growth. It's a playbook for growing existing business, a step by step process and a toolbox of strategies that you can take back to your agency and apply. 
https://www.accountmanagementskills.com/training  On this page you'll also find testimonials from account directors and account managers who've been through the programme.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What's the role of Client Services Director in a copywriting agency, with Nina Whittaker</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/rnk2j4k8</link>
      <itunes:title>What's the role of Client Services Director in a copywriting agency, with Nina Whittaker</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>43</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">70wr93z1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 43. This episode is for you if you're interested in the role of agency Client Services Director, or maybe you're just curious to see how our copywriting and content marketing agency works. Nina Whittaker is CSD for Stratton Craig, and she talked about everything to do with the CSD role:

- the skills you need
- the challenges you might find
- and how she also adds value to her clients and keeps ahead of her clients' changing needs.


I hope you enjoy the chat with Nina and have come away with a few ideas.

A quick message about my Account Accelerator Programme. Designed for agency account managers and account directors, it kicks off again on 23rd September 2021. If you're interested, then go over to accountmanagementskills.com/training where you can find out more information about the programme. It's designed to take your agency from unpredictable project revenue to more predictable account growth.  </description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:</strong><br>&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>00:03</div><div>Today, I'm delighted to introduce Nina Whittaker to the show. She's the Client Services Director for Stratton Craig and Stratton Craig is a copywriting, copywriting and content agency. And I had the pleasure of working with Nina and her team pretty recently. And I was particularly struck a by Nina's leadership style,&nbsp; and also the cohesiveness of her team. So it was a really lovely feeling to work with her and her colleagues. So I was really keen to get her on the show to talk about her role as CSD. She's also kind of like deputy Managing Director. So I think it's really interesting for others maybe who are interested in getting into the role themselves, or you aspire to do that in the future to have a little bit of an insight, a window into her life, her role, and just get some thoughts on agency life in general. So welcome, Nina. &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>00:57</div><div>Thank you for having me, Jenny, really pleased to be here.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>01:00</div><div>Well, I'm delighted. Would you mind starting off just by giving us a little bit of background on you? And how you got to be a CSD? &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>01:12</div><div>Of course, no problem, I thought I'd actually start with a bit of a confession, always a good way to start a podcast. And so I was a student many years ago at Exeter University. And coming into my third year, I was thinking about careers. And I saw that there's an event for advertising, someone talking about advertising, I thought, that is the career for me. That's what I want to do. So I went along eager to find out more and what I should be doing to get into the industry. And it just so happened that a former director of Stratton Craig was presenting on copywriting. Before that day, I didn't really realise that there was such a career path, such a huge industry in this space. And so I took it upon myself to ask for work experience, because really the description of what she was doing, as the Client Services Director herself at the time, really matched my interest as a business management student, but also, my love of writing and essay writing, whatever writing I could get my hands on, I was doing it. So I asked for work experience and probably to say, I haven't looked back 13 years later is probably an understatement because I went from there and worked my way up through the ranks Stratton Craig really.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>02:27</div><div>Wow. I never knew that story. How amazing is that? It's interesting Nina you say that you didn't know much about it. Because this is a little bit of a pattern I'm seeing that a lot of people don't understand what does it mean to be in this industry? &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>02:45</div><div>Yeah,&nbsp; it was fascinating, because you do hear you hear about all sorts of careers as a student and to come up through school and University. And I think advertising is perhaps the closest that you would commonly hear about, certainly when I was at university anyway. But in terms of copywriting, and it's a really broad industr, to be honest, there's so much so many formats that you write for, whether it's reporting, social media copy, blog posts, articles etc. There's so many different avenues that a career in copywriting, or the industry can take is really super varied. So for me,&nbsp; that was the exciting part was knowing that I could merge my kind of passion for writing and editing with probably more of a business management mindset as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>03:30</div><div>So what did you start off doing? You started off with work experience?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>03:35</div><div>Anything and everything, anything and everything. So when I joined, it was a very small team, there was just three of us. So I joined I was doing various bits and bobs, admin tasks. And it also started to get involved in things like costing projects, understanding what it was the clients wanted from us, briefing writers,&nbsp; being a shadow to others in the team at the time. So I did that work experience for about three weeks and I think it was and then it wasn't long after that I was offered the role as accounting exec. And I moved into that kind of more formal role of really helping to keep projects running and ticking along, and keeping clients and writers happy and on track. And then obviously working my way up through the ranks from there.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>04:26</div><div>Wow. Tell us a bit about Stratton Craig because you've probably seen during those 13 years an evolution not only of your own role, but obviously if the company and what they offer. So how has that changed and what were you offering before and what are you offering now?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>04:41</div><div>So when I joined Stratton Craig, actually just before I joined it, just been bought by Darren who is the owner of Stratton Craig now and our MD and probably before Darren bought it, it was more of a collective of copywriters and so particularly focused in the legal and Financial industries, and they were doing a lot of writing in that space. And they started to build that agency structure with account managers as well. But Darren also had another agency at the time. So he really kind of accelerated that process in terms of building teams and growth around that kind of agency structure. And so we went from mainly offering copywriting on an ad hoc project basis, and through to adding services like tone of voice consultancy, content strategy. And obviously&nbsp; a huge amount of what we were doing went digital as well. So that opened up loads of new avenues of formats and channels that we needed to write for. And so really helping to support that growth has been a key part of my role, definitely. And the other key thing that happened is we opened our London office about three years into my role is Stratton Craig. So that then took me to London for six years, I spent my time there and did my stint in London and the team grew hugely in London. And then I now I'm back in Bristol, building the team here again. So it's been quite a journey. And at times, it's felt like, probably, I'd say, over the years, like two or three different roles, and two or three different businesses or based attention to grace that we've experienced.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>06:22</div><div>I mean, I don't want to put words in your mouth. But given that you have worked so closely with the business for so long, there's probably not one area of the business that you don't know something about.&nbsp; I mean, you do get involved in every area of the business.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>06:35</div><div>Yeah, I think that's probably fair to say, definitely. I think I'm fortunate, we've got a fantastic team. So I'm certainly not responsible for all those areas. But I think part of the Client Services Director role, but also generally of being a director in a smaller business is that you do have an eye on everything and an opinion on everything is also really important to have and to be asked for as well.&nbsp; I've definitely tried my hand at a fair few different things in the business and also continue to have kind of sight as those things as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>07:10</div><div>So along that theme, what do you think is the real value of the CSD role in an agency?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>07:17</div><div>I was thinking about this actually, because I think probably the really specific and biggest value probably varies from agency to agency because as a client services director, you have site across, obviously, all of the clients, you have a site of a lot of the operations within the agency that you're working for. And for me, certainly at Stratton Craig, that means I have sight of a lot of industries and types of projects. And so I'm constantly learning from one project, what might help with another project and so forth. And being able to have that bird's eye view of things, I think is so important to the client services director role. And I think it allows you to add value in the way that your agency needs iyou to. And so I personally, I'm always looking out for and considering how do we need to adapt to meet the needs of our clients who are also evolving and adapting, and those needs are always changing. So I think having that person who is always keeping their eye on the future, forward looking, okay, this is what our clients are going through, this is what the industries we work in are going through. And so that probably means that we need to position ourselves here to make sure that we are able to support them in the future. And so seeing what it is and then obviously putting in place the structures, the resources that are needed to deliver on that and to be able to meet those expectations that run your agency.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>08:39</div><div>You've also again hit on something that I think I completely agree with what you've just said. Clients buy into us, because we do have that bird's eye view over different industries, different types of clients, sometimes in the same sector, sometimes not. And funnily enough, one of my previous guests, Carey Evans, from relationship audit said that 100% of clients that they interviewed say that they want agencies to leverage their understanding and knowledge of other industries, other clients to bring to the clients, but only 25% of agencies do it. So I mean, you're obviously in that 25%, which is fantastic.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>09:16</div><div>I think it's so important. Different industries can learn from one another, but it's also just different ways of working. There are so many ways you can tackle the same problems. And as a client services, anyone in Client Services, you see the different approaches organisations take and how they they work and don't work sometime, you can bring that to other clients too.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>09:36</div><div>Really good insight. And can you describe a little bit about your role. What are the key elements that you get involved in, so we have an insight into a day in the life of Nina.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>09:48</div><div>Oh, goodness, no two days are the same, that's for sure. I think probably the best way to describe it is driving that full lifecycle of a client. So really&nbsp; from the first inquiry or referral, or however they've come to us, and I will often be their first point of contact. And at the start, a lot of it is about hearing what it is that they're looking for. And firstly, qualifying, you know, do we really think we can add value to this client? Is this the client for us? And are we the agency for them? And then trying to take that forward into shaping some kind of brief and diagnosing, what are their pain points and what value can we add, and how do we add that value. And so initially, understanding their needs and making sure that we're the right people, but then also bringing together the right people to be on that pitch, whether it's a pitch or a proposal, or however we're approaching the client, and the task and making sure&nbsp; I've got the right team around me to show them what we can do and I'm certainly not a single person in terms of the success that we've had at Stratton Craig. And that's so important to bring the team to life for our clients, I think. And so through the proposal pitch process, and once the clients then won really, that's when I bring on board another member of the Client Services team, and they probably have already been involved in the pitch themselves as well. They will then take the day to day running as the account over. And I will then tend to be involved more in key meetings, like project kickoff meetings, or quarterly business reviews, and anything where I guess it goes beyond just, okay, what are we delivering and how are we going to get there? What perhaps are the pain points that we're facing at the moment? And what opportunities have we as an agency seen that we want to tell that client about and taking that more strategic again, that forward looking view on things, and bringing that to the right kinds of meetings with the client on a regular basis. And you're obviously also, of course, senior point of escalation, if there's any issues. And thankfully, that doesn't happen too much. And I think that's a testament to the team that we built at Stratton Craig, but certainly if there's awkward conversations to be had they fall to you. So you kind of have to be prepared for those. And beyond that at Stratton Craig, there's also the people management aspect of the role. And so I will be supporting our client services team and our writers with their own their own roles, their accounts, but also their career development and helping them go in the direction that I've been fortunate to go in myself. Whether it's because we're a small agency, I don't know, but I'm very closely involved with the strategic direction of our own agency as well. So having my eye on so many things, allows me to offer that client perspective, when we're talking about what services we should be offering or even our own rebrand or whatever it might be. It's&nbsp; bringing that perspective to Stratton Craig's own growth and development as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>12:54</div><div>It sounds like you get involved into so much like, how do you prioritise?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>13:00</div><div>That's a good question. I think that's a key skill that I have learned, particularly in the last few years of my role. &nbsp; I think prioritisation comes hand in hand with delegation, and really understanding the skills of those around you. Because everyone wants to be exposed to growth development anyway. So, if I've got 10 tasks to do and only time to do three of them,&nbsp; there are definitely people who can help me with them and support me on them. So partly, I look at who can help me with certain tasks, and who would benefit from being involved in certain projects and tasks. And then in terms of prioritisation, I'm a big fan of to do lists and writing things down and capturing what it is I've got to do and how long each thing should take me and asking myself regularly, am I the right person to do this? Is this the right time to do this? Does it have to be done today, this morning, this hour, whatever it might be. And it's kind of constantly shifting that to do list&nbsp; to to allow for reaction as well as proactivity.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>14:09</div><div>I think you're on the money as well. I mean, choosing the tasks that are really going to move the needle and move things forward is sometimes difficult, isn't it? Because we get caught out putting out fires and things like. Was it difficult for you because you started off so early in the company, and you were doing everything? Was it difficult to transition into that role where you're letting go and letting others take the lead? How did you find that?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>14:37</div><div>It was difficult, I would say it was counterintuitive because until, at each stage of my career development, the things you're letting go of are the things in your previous role you were so closely held accountable for. And it feels really counterintuitive to be like actually, I don't need to know about that. I just need to know about the outcome of that or whatever it might be and and it was definitely difficult. And I think again, particularly in my role as CSD it's been one of my challenges that I've probably taken my time to get used to and to master. I don't know, even if I've mastered it yet. But I think, again, it's building the team around you, I've been really fortunate to be involved in the recruitment of the majority of the team at Stratton Craig. So I've really, from their first days with us been able to understand their strengths, their ambitions, and what it is that they want out of their role, so that I can build that, help them build that, but also know what to send their way, what not send their way and to really trust them in their capacity is as my team as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>15:47</div><div>That's kind of gold standard lead leadership, isn't it, right there, you know, find out what it's gonna motivate them? Because we're all intrinsically motivated by different things, and then help them with their own ambition.&nbsp; Tell us a bit about recruitment, because we discuss recruitment on the podcast recently. What's your recruitment process? How do you go about selecting the right people for you?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>16:12</div><div>We have a few stages of our process, we try not to make it too laborious. But there's kind of, for us, just an initial informal chat with potential candidates who have shown an interest in a role and just really kind of, is this the right fit for you? And are you the right fit for us, equal kind of footing really, because I think you can write the best job description, and you can write the best CV, but it's always the things in between the line that really create the magic. And so telling them a bit more about the role and hearing from them, some of that stuff we just talked about, their ambitions, and what it is that they want from their next role and everything. And then taking that through to something a bit more of a traditional interview process with competency questions, and so forth. Because it is great to hear, really useful to hear, real examples of things that they've done and challenges or opportunities that they faced and how they've worked with them. And as a writing agency, we also involve some elements of writing in our interview process as well, or editing. And then we at Stratton Craig have found that our most successful recruits, we just had a feeling and that sounds so unscientific, but you can do all the personality tests and everything else. But I think that from those early conversations, you often start to get a feeling whether this person is going to fit into the fabric of our agency, and how we work and how we act and behave, I think is key. And so we talk a lot, and we try to talk a lot outside of interview as well and really just get to know, these candidates as professionals and as people in their own right, not just as candidates for the role that we're interviewing them for.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>18:01</div><div>Interesting. How has your business model evolved? Do you have a structure in place where it gives you the flexibility to scale up when needed? Because I know how you've been through a growth spurt, you've got some fantastic blue chip clients, how do you manage to resource effectively?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>18:26</div><div>Stratton Craig has always had a mixture of writers in house and a freelance network as well as specialist writers, and many who have actually worked with Stratton Craig longer than I have, so very much part of our team,&nbsp; Senior Specialist writers who have chosen the freelance route for their careers. And so in terms of the writing side of our business, I would say that that has always been very scalable and it continues to be we we have experts across all the sectors and formats that we work with. And we build teams around our clients needs. And that's something that I think we've really managed to perfect the art of doing that and knowing the right people for the projects. I think, what we probably have seen more of a challenge with is the Client Services team, because obviously, as growth occurs, that's more clients to manage, and more clients to develop as well, really importantly, and making sure that our teams have the freedom to do that means making sure that we've got enough Client Services people on board to really grasp these opportunities. And so we have been through a bit of a growth spurt in the past year or so. In addition to that, we also have some project managers for example. So we do see a difference between account managers and project managers. So we can bring project managers in to manage certain projects for a client or a few clients projects at a time. But in terms of the actual client management and account management, that's the people that we want in house and the people that we build up in the team internally. So I think the easiest way to be scalable is to see that separation between the two.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>20:08</div><div>So ease of scaling, because I agree with you separating the role, and I think, I know we've had this conversation in the past, but sometimes the account managers who are also doing the project managing it can impede those who are particularly good at expanding and developing those accounts. So just to reiterate, is that a deliberate thought on your part to keep them separate so that they could do those roles?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>20:35</div><div>I think there is certainly still an element of project management involved for account managers. But in those times when we've seen a real pinch in resources, or a sudden influx of work that we need to deliver that's when we've really been able to showcase the project management that we can get some support on here. The clients need to have their regular contact and dedicated account manager, having the picky conversations with them. But actually, what is it that you account manager can just give to someone else, because it's essentially the project management part of your role. So it's not it's not completely separate all the time. But in the moments of squeeze, we can separate it quite quickly.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>21:21</div><div>&nbsp;We talked a bit about Stratton Craig offering strategic support for clients, and really having that bigger picture and umbrella view. Tell me a bit about your strategic department. Do you expect the account managers to have that strategic head? Or do you see that as somebody else's role?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>21:44</div><div>I think there's, it's an interesting question, because I think there's&nbsp; two parts to it, really. Some of our clients come to us commissioning strategy&nbsp; projects. So they might want to content strategy or just a messaging framework or an a part of what's going to become their comms strategy for them as a business. So we have our content strategists and comms consultants, they're doing that. And those people also do get involved in our client account management as well and our account development, but certainly our account managers are looking at all of their clients from a strategic perspective in terms of really understanding their pain points, and diagnosing, you know, what does that mean for you as the individual in your business? How is that causing you trouble every day? And what can we as an agency do to help you solve that? So constantly kind of asking those slightly deeper questions rather than just what's the next brief that we can do for you&nbsp; but also, certainly for our top tier clients, helping them to look forward to look ahead at the opportunities that are coming their way. What could they be communicating about next, what might be a challenge that's on the horizon that communications could help them solve, etc, etc. So there's kind of strategic viewpoints on both sides. And we are lucky that we have our content strategists, because they can really help inform. They're fantastic researchers and have a fantastic eye for spotting these kind of opportunities and challenges but equally the account managers are learning from them and taking those processes into their own hands as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>23:26</div><div>Great point,&nbsp; it's good to have that mentorship internally, isn't it? You mentioned earlier that you have quarterly business reviews,&nbsp; QBRs,&nbsp; with your clients. Do you find that generally clients are open to your suggestion for having QBRs?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>23:40</div><div>Yeah, I think so. I think we've seen a variety. Some clients want them monthly, to be honest, sometimes really they find that the more regular, the better, whereas some clients actually have their own cadence already of meetings, and there's just one particular type of meeting that we fit into. So rather than adding another one to the list, we might be invited to something that already exists. And so that could be bi-monthly or even just twice a year, something like that. So I think suggesting them always leads to something, it might not always be a quarterly business review. But whether it becomes a monthly or twice yearly, and it allows you to kind of hear how you can best fit into that strategic decision making that they're already doing themselves.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>24:26</div><div>I think that's a really golden tip right there for anyone that's not currently doing it. In my experience of working with different types of agencies, sometimes, if the perception is oh, we only do this, it's a service that's a little bit probably downstream, then how could we offer this kind of more upstream service? So as you say, just suggest it, because presumably, how has that helped your relationships with clients being earlier in their planning process?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>24:56</div><div>I think it brings focus to that proactive tasks that we like to do with our clients, and it gives them a moment in time when they can expect it from us as well. And they prepare for it as much as we do to make sure that these sessions are really, really useful. So they will share stuff with us in advance,&nbsp; sometimes, voluntarily or sometimes, because we've requested it, but things that are really going to help us make the most of an hour or two together. And almost always, we need more time, because everything that we've discussed throws up more questions or more ideas etc, etc. So it allows us to have that kind of brainstorming moment that actually then leads to many more of those types of conversations in the weeks after as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>25:43</div><div>Fantastic. You've mentioned quite a few of them so far, but what do you believe are some of the essential skills for the CSD role?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>25:51</div><div>I think there's some that are common to every client services role, of course. So organisation and time management are crucial and only intensify as you become more senior in that kind of space. And I think the one that I always hone in on is listening, and listening to clients and to your own team as well, I think is absolutely crucial, because it's only really through the listening that you can spot those opportunities, read between the lines or hear between the lines, and&nbsp; spot the challenges that you you're there to help your clients face. I think my tip would be listening is the one to hone and to really focus on. And then with that comes also empathy and once you've listened understanding and truly, truly feeling what it is that your clients are thinking or your team are thinking, so that you can offer them the help that they need in that moment. I think the worst thing you can do is go in with assumptions as to the position they're in and, and not hear what it is that they're really saying to you about what they want or need from you.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>27:02</div><div>Great advice. Anything else?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>27:06</div><div>Definitely problem solving is the other aspect is the role. And problems not always being a bad thing. You know, this is opportunity solving in some cases as well. I think there's this constant need to adapt and shift and be ready to pivot at any time, depending on what it is, comes through the inbox through the client inquiry, you know, through the website, and so forth. And making sure that you're always kind of ready to think on your feet as well. &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>27:40</div><div>I think this is really good advice because the agency life is very much like that, isn't it? No day, as you said at the beginning, is the same. And you have to have that kind of mindset, growth mindset and flexible approach to most things to survive.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>27:59</div><div>One of my mentors, a coach that I've worked with once described my role, and it was just as I was going into the CSD role. And I was&nbsp; having a bit of trouble moving with, with the role and making sure that I was always changing direction if I needed to. And she was like, You are essentially the football manager on the side of the pitch, the ball is always moving, your players are always moving, their players are always moving, and you need to look to watch all of it. And just keep moving with it all and adapting your steer and your direction, based on where the ball was going next. And that's probably, I haven't done her analogy justice, but I remember at the time thinking,&nbsp; finding some peace in that understanding of actually, that's my job now, my job isn't just to follow the project plan and just to keep going and deliver my my job is to steer everyone around as everything keeps on shifting and moving. So I found that a very useful way of looking at it</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>28:59</div><div>It's a fantastic analogy, and I'm going to steal it. That's a brilliant- actually anyone who's even thinking about going into the CSD role that's a fantastic kind of vision, a very easy way of of kind of understanding what it's all about. So thank you for sharing that one. You've talked about you're working at a more strategic level with clients generally. Can you share some examples of some of the most effective ways that at Stratton Craig you've been able to help your clients businesses grow?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>29:36</div><div>At a very fundamental kind of level&nbsp; Stratton Craig works with clients in a lot of technical sectors. The past kind of five years or so I would say that there's been a real awakening as to the need to communicate clearly and accessibly with audiences. Even in those most technical sectors, you're still really communicating with people and so something that we really focus on is that clarity and accessibility of the content we write those kinds of industries, which I think in itself fosters understanding and engagement and loyalty that delivers growth for your clients, almost immediately, really compared to&nbsp; perhaps how they have been communicating in the past. And then also&nbsp; through our strategy services, we are helping clients to explore new formats and new channels. Every other day, there's a new way that you could communicate with your audiences and actually helping them to explore and experiment with those. And crucially, to measure the success of those experiments is also helping our clients to reach wider audiences, new audiences,&nbsp; or just to reach their current audience in new ways as well. And the other thing that we do is produce a lot of annual and sustainability reports. So for me, that's about laying the foundations for growth. So, these are the things investors and analysts and everyone are looking at. So before you've even thought about your end audience, we're actually helping with the setting and making those solid foundations on which to grow as well. And that's a huge part, and certainly, increasingly growing in terms of the advice and support that our clients needs, you know, these regulated industries have to report on these things, and ESG, and so forth, it is becoming a huge topic for them. And without those, the ability to grow is hampered, so certainly that as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>31:30</div><div>I bet you've seen a huge growth in requests for that support?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>31:34</div><div>We have, as I said, ESG has been, certainly past couple of years a real influx, based on various regulations but also, kind of alongside that is a general need for tying together everything a business is already saying into a more cohesive narrative as well. So we're working with clients to look at everything they're currently saying, and bring it together to kind of a single source of truth, because global businesses have so many versions of the same story, in all these different contexts that actually having, again, that external bird's eye perspective on it can really help see quite how in cohesive they can be at times and bringing that together can be can be really helpful, I think.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>32:24</div><div>Absolutely. Your thoughts about measuring success? How easy is it to measure success in the world of copywriting and content strategy?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>32:32</div><div>That's a question we are asked so often, and it's certainly not easy. And it is possible, though, I think the thing to remember is that rarely does anything stand on its own in terms of the success that you get. So alongside copy, you also have design, and I think those two things work together to deliver the results that you get. So we would never claim success purely based on copy but there are ways that you can, you can understand and evaluate the success of what you do. So, particularly if it's online, there's all sorts of metrics, things like Google Analytics, where you can see are people engaging for longer with our blogs, for example? Or are we driving more traffic, because actually, we're talking about more relevant things so we're appearing in more search results, etc, etc. There's some fundamental pieces like that, but we also do things like social listening, or focus groups as well, for our clients, where we just understand what, how their audiences perceives them. And that's a much softer measure of things. But if a client has struggled with how it's being perceived, or they're going through a rebrand and want to be shifting their position in the market, that's such a useful way of hearing from clients based on your tone of voice was this and it's now this, read those two statements and tell us which company you prefer the sound of. So there are definitely ways to do it. What we tend to do in those early stages of any strategic project is identify what are the relevant KPIs that we can use with this project that are going to get us closest to understanding the ROI?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>34:16</div><div>It sounds like you play the role of really steering the client through this. Do you work with every type of business from kind of startup to global companies? I mean, I know a handful mostly are global. But do you qualify which types of companies you can help the most?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>34:40</div><div>We do we work with all types of businesses to be honest, a lot of our clients are global and international companies, but there are definitely startups and smaller companies in there as well. And I think that the common thread between them is that they have a need, they understand their need to communicate clearly, consistently and engagingly with their audience, they value their communications. So we work across all sectors as well. So in some sectors, it's that they are really struggling to stand out and that's the kind of challenge that they come to us with. But in others, it really is, actually, no one understands what the hell we do so can you help us articulate it better than we can ourselves because we're way too into detail. So it varies so much but I think it's just that recognition that the words they're using really matter.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>35:32</div><div>Very, very powerful. And let's go back, going back to your role, talk me through some of the challenges that you face, give us some examples of things that you really have to be prepared for.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>35:46</div><div>So I think, I think that football match analogy is a good one, because the day never stands still really, there's so many things going on within the team and the clients that you have that actually,&nbsp; there are constant surprises, and some of them are good, and some of them aren't good. But it's just always being, putting yourself in a mindset where you're ready to shift direction and reprioritise as you need to. Sure. And because you are pulled in a lot of different directions. And I would say it's not unusual that all of those things require attention at the same time, you get that perfect storm quite regularly. And so I think prioritising, delegating and managing expectations as well. I think, over my years and Client Services, probably my biggest learning is that when I'm honest with my clients, and I share this is what we're able to do, but this is what we're not able to do right now. That's what really I find strengthens the relationship and moves it forward when you're facing a challenging period. So managing expectations, and making sure that clients and teams are always communicated with clearly and aware of the state of play really is super important. And then in terms of other challenges, I think, moving into the CSD role, as I said, is a challenge because you're having to let go of things that have always been part of your role. And so, certainly for me&nbsp; that was the challenge of moving into the role. And then beyond that, I think it's perhaps something around the fact that as a CSD, you need to kind of allow your team the freedom to fail. And that comes to me very unnaturally, because I just want to support my team and help them do the very best possible. But I know that I've had learnings along throughout my career, and they've been some of the biggest turning points of my career. And so it's so important to kind of advise and guide people but also to step back and not micromanage them through to success, because actually, that's not really success on their own terms. So for me, that's a big part is kind of allowing them freedom, and being there to support them, should something go wrong. But certainly not micromanaging, or babysitting.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>38:21</div><div>I've seen how your team have responded to that, and the way you manage and I think you're an absolute natural. And that's probably why your team is so loyal. And you build that trust. I'm just saying that honestly, through an external observation. So what you are doing that really well. I'm just curious to know, do you have any kind of insight into how you manage people. How would you, if you had to train another person in how to manage others? Is there any kind of thing that you would say, you mentioned, don't be a micromanager? I think that's clear, find out what their their ambitions are, so that you can help them progress. Anything else that you think would be useful?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>39:07</div><div>I imagine a lot of Client Services Directors are in a similar position to me where they have been in the role that they're managing themselves. So for me, I quite regularly refer back to things that I experienced in the role when I'm talking to my team and trying to help them understand how to manage a situation or, you know, just guiding them on a particular task that they're having to do. And I will share the learnings that I had when I was in a similar situation, which I think the benefit of that is that it brings me kind of into the room with them and not&nbsp; someone who's telling them how to do it and oh, you should do it that way, because that's the right way. It's actually I did it and I learned this so you can decide what you do with that, but that's my experience of this challenge that you're facing or this opportunity that you're facing. So being honest about the challenges that I had when I was at that stage I think, helps to humanise the kind of the relationship between you, really. And I also have invested quite a lot of time and getting to know my team as people and outside of work. We are sociable bunch, so I know lots about them, and they know lots about me. And that doesn't work for everyone but I find particularly in a small business it has fostered a real sense of cohesion and support within the workplace. And I think it's that genuinely understanding that you've got each other's backs. And for me as a manager, that's really important when I'm having to deliver some bad or difficult news or having to work through a challenge with someone is actually, I think that belief that I've got their best interests at heart comes from knowing them as more than just my account management team.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>41:04</div><div>Lovely. I think that's fantastic. I'm interested in your view on this. And one of the biggest questions I get asked most frequently is, what do I have to do to get promoted from account manager to account director. And similarly, for those that are maybe at a senior account director level, looking to step up to CSD and I'd be really interested in your view on what is it for both of those steps? I personally think it is a step. But I would love to just hear you're having been through all of that and seen it with your team.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>41:38</div><div>I'm not surprised that it's a common question because it's something I struggled with when I was going through those stages. And I think I particularly struggled with the concept of the difference between account manager and account director. Because actually, when you describe many elements of the role and even when you see the people in action, they're often working on similar tasks, or the same tasks together quite often and they probably are responsible individually for certain clients, etc, etc. So it's hard to distinguish what it is that makes you an account director versus an AM.&nbsp; I think certainly at Stratton Craig and my understanding generally is, it's probably more about how you do what you do than what you're doing.&nbsp; I think it's stepping into having a more strategic focus,&nbsp; as you become the account director, you really are responsible for steering your client in the direction that you as an agency believes they should go in. And so it's about always bringing, and being prepared to share your independent opinion of a situation, a challenge, an opportunity, a trend, whatever it might be, being well researched into what it is that your client does, their industry and the opportunities that they have ahead of them. And bringing that to meetings and articulating in a persuasive way, and taking them on that journey with you and building that kind of authority and trust that they're kind of like yeah, Nina really knows what she's talking about in this topic. She's clearly been speaking to others, or she's seen a really interesting article, or whatever it might be.&nbsp; I didn't know that and I think she can help me with that kind of thing. So for me, I think, moving into that account director role, that's a big part of where you start to do a lot more of that. And I think that was the hardest thing for me to grasp was like, but I am putting ideas on the table, etc, etc. But actually, once you're doing that, you see that taking that slightly more forward looking approach is&nbsp; actually quite a big difference to what you were doing as an account manager.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>43:47</div><div>I love the way you explained that. Thank you. . And what about this leap?&nbsp; Maybe you've got someone listening, that's thinking, well, I'm senior account director. I know I'm ready for CSD. What do you think that big jump is about?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>44:07</div><div>&nbsp;I mentioned earlier that part of the key to the role is being able to understand strengths of others around you and building teams and using the skill sets that are within your team. And I think demonstrating that you can do that. I think you have opportunities to do that in any client services role,&nbsp; but demonstrating that as the senior account director is certainly very important. And I think also, from my experience, a big difference was showing and demonstrating my interest and my affinity for the strategy of Stratton Craig as an agency as well, because obviously, as the Client Services Director, you then are brought into many different conversations about actually where are we going as an agency and where should we be going as an agency and so in the run up to becoming Client Services Director, I was actively looking for processes that I thought actually I think we can improve that and or services that others are offering that we aren't, but I think we should be. Looking for opportunities to develop and improve the ways we work and the things we do as an agency and I'm taking those to Darren, my boss, and showing him you know, I really care about Stratton Craig and this is my idea, and open to the feedback on that, and then actually driving that forward. I think driving is key, rather than just giving someone an idea and hoping someone else does it.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>45:37</div><div>Again, really nicely put,&nbsp; two things really bringing the best out of others because let's face it, not everybody can, not everybody finds it easy to do. So, you know, it's not to say you can't learn how to do it,&nbsp; and then being that real, commercial business leader, with that view of I'm passionate about where this business is going. I'm obviously passionate about the clients businesses and how we can help but also where we go.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>46:08</div><div>You've just reminded me something on leadership in any industry, that's certainly something I've experienced is increasing my self awareness has, I think been really key to becoming a client services director. Understanding what it is that motivates me, truly, and what it is that triggers me when I'm stressed or under pressure, and&nbsp; shifting my perspective on stress versus pressure as well. And that's a whole other conversation but, and certainly, I had a coach who helped me to better understand how I was coming across to both my seniors and the more junior members of the team and how I could adapt the way I communicated when I was under pressure to better support others and each other up and things. There's definitely something in building your self awareness to become a better leader. I think it's crucial.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>47:03</div><div>That is such a good tip, Nina. Can you share what actually was the feedback to you? What was the lightbulb moment. Do you mind sharing?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>47:13</div><div>Of course. So I think the time came, when Stratton Craig, I'd been in London for six, seven years. And we decided actually, we're going to&nbsp; reopen the Bristol office, and that I was going to lead that reopening, and the building of the team in Bristol. And so I think I think I had a bit of the weight of the world on my shoulders at the time. And I was managing my own personal life move to Bristol, and also trying to recruit and train a number of new team members in Bristol, and keep all of those London clients happy and make sure that everyone was still on track there as well. So it was a big task. This was when I was put in touch with this coach, because we talked about it and she had been in the office with me at times. We'd had feedback from the team and I think that when the world was on my shoulders, it all came out through my face and I'd be sat at my desk&nbsp; frowning like this, and it would make some of these new members of staff not feel like they could come and ask me a question because they were like, Nina's so stressed out, I can't go over, and it was simple things like a post it note on my screen to tell me to remember to look up and just breathe or whatever it was. But that was one of the, for me, one of the simple pieces of feedback that I got. And that I've really tried to work since, is just not holding all that stress within because it does show, even if you're trying really hard not to bother everyone else, there are ways that it shows. So share the load with your manager or whatever it might be, and it will naturally kind of play out for you. Another thing that I really learned was the ways others communicate as well. Some people communicate completely, they hear things or some people feel things and it was listening out for what others say, so that I could adapt how I was talking to them at the time to deliver the message better or&nbsp; in a way that would make them feel more listened to and to show that they were listened to as well.There was various things we worked through, and I still talk to her now. So it was a fantastic experience. But there was definitely a kind of a big shift at that point for me in terms of self awareness.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>49:31</div><div>Brilliant, brilliant tips. Thank you so much for sharing. I'm sure those little insights and the story around it will be really helpful to others. I had something similar happened to me. I've my face said it all.As you say, as a leader, you set the tone energetically for the rest of the team. You know, if you walk into the office with a face like thunder having had a bad weekend, you just it reverberates doesn't it round the office and everyone kind of feels this tension? So thank you for sharing that's really, really useful. So let me just talking about the future, I'm just conscious of time as well, how do you see things evolving for your clients? How do you see the services you offer, matching the ever changing needs of your clients?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>50:22</div><div>I think something we are seeing is that, in the long distant past, as I said, we did a lot of projects with our clients. And what we're now seeing is the clients actually require entire programmes of content. And that's really across all the industries we work with. And, within those programmes, there is a need for so many different formats and channels and requirements, that it's not just one writer, to work with a client, it's actually a team of maybe 10 writers working together, and also individuals on certain projects within that programme and bringing a real range of skill sets together to actually cover all the bases and to make sure that those communications are really successful. So, certainly, we're seeing a trend away from, we need to create a website towards actually, we're rebranding, and these are all the things we need to do and we need to make sure that we're threading the same story throughout all of them. So I think definitely, clients are joining up their own things, which is then obviously, filtering through to the work that we're doing with them as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>51:30</div><div>Are they becoming more open minded to having project teams working remotely in different places? Are you seeing a shift in that as well?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>51:40</div><div>Yeah. And I actually have seen that they value that they value knowing that, we have writers who many are based in the UK, but many aren't so actually having writers who perhaps work in different jurisdictions for legal clients and, or who understand the cultural nuances and how certain language is going to be received in a certain market. There's definitely a want, particularly from our global clients, to have a team that reflects their globalness.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>52:15</div><div>Amazing. Nina, this has been fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing so much value. It's been really, really insightful. And it's great for me to get to know you on a different level as well. So this has been brilliant. I'm just keen for you to share your contact details. First of all, who would you like to be contacted by and how can they get hold of you?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>52:37</div><div>So firstly, if anyone, if anything, I said things resonated with anyone, I'd be happy to hear from anyone who has got ambitions in the industry in terms of account management,&nbsp; I've benefited from mentors and advice throughout my career. So I'd be really happy to chat to anyone. And, and then in terms of clients, we do work across lots of sectors and performance, so I won't bore you with those, but I think clients who are looking for a partner, a partner that specialises in writing and words, so perhaps, to work in collaboration with the other agencies they might have on their roster, and who are clients who are really happy to open up their strategy to us because I think that's when we can really add the most value and build the best relationships when we really fully understand what are their pain points, and what really are their objectives, their business objectives that we are part of meeting. And so for us, that's Nirvana is having clients where we really do become that seamless extension of their team and can support them in strategic discussions as well as delivery of their projects.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>53:48</div><div>Amazing. And is the best way to get hold of you on LinkedIn or your website.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>53:53</div><div>I'm on LinkedIn, Nina Whittaker and also you can just drop me an email nina@strattoncraig.co.uk as well. &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>54:01</div><div>Thank you so much Nina, again. I really appreciate it.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nina&nbsp; </strong>54:03</div><div>No problem. Thank you for having me.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>54:05</div><div>Pleasure.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2021 07:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/58r2q3n8.mp3" length="59155246" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/6f2aa870-ff2f-11eb-9265-15ed6b635d8c/6f2aa9e0-ff2f-11eb-9430-e5164bf2ec89.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2957</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 43. This episode is for you if you're interested in the role of agency Client Services Director, or maybe you're just curious to see how our copywriting and content marketing agency works. Nina Whittaker is CSD for Stratton Craig, and she talked about everything to do with the CSD role:

- the skills you need
- the challenges you might find
- and how she also adds value to her clients and keeps ahead of her clients' changing needs.


I hope you enjoy the chat with Nina and have come away with a few ideas.

A quick message about my Account Accelerator Programme. Designed for agency account managers and account directors, it kicks off again on 23rd September 2021. If you're interested, then go over to accountmanagementskills.com/training where you can find out more information about the programme. It's designed to take your agency from unpredictable project revenue to more predictable account growth.  </itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 43. This episode is for you if you're interested in the role of agency Client Services Director, or maybe you're just curious to see how our copywriting and content marketing agency works. Nina Whittaker is CSD for Stratton Craig, and she talked about everything to do with the CSD role:

- the skills you need
- the challenges you might find
- and how she also adds value to her clients and keeps ahead of her clients' changing needs.


I hope you enjoy the chat with Nina and have come away with a few ideas.

A quick message about my Account Accelerator Programme. Designed for agency account managers and account directors, it kicks off again on 23rd September 2021. If you're interested, then go over to accountmanagementskills.com/training where you can find out more information about the programme. It's designed to take your agency from unpredictable project revenue to more predictable account growth.  </itunes:subtitle>
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    <item>
      <title>Top 10 tips for getting, keeping and growing clients from podcast guests</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/08j7rz4n</link>
      <itunes:title>Top 10 tips for getting, keeping and growing clients from podcast guests</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>42</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">41pwvk70</guid>
      <description>Creative agencies live and die by their ability to get, keep and grow clients.

If you're a creative agency leader or in agency account management and want some useful insights and tips then listen to this episode.

It's a compilation of soundbites from my guests who have shared some brilliant golden nuggets during the year I have been recording the podcast.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Welcome to Episode 42.<br><br>The first ever episode of this podcast went live on August the fifth 2020.<br><br>So one year on almost to the day, and I'm reflecting on the privilege I've had of interviewing some of the most interesting and experienced people in the creative agency world.<br><br>My goal as always, for you is to come away with helpful tips, ideas, golden Nugget nuggets of wisdom, and reminders for how to keep and grow existing client relationships.<br><br>And that is whether you are in an agency account management position, an agency leadership role, or you're looking to get into the industry maybe I've spoken to agency account management teams, agency leaders, strategist and consultants to the creative industry.<br><br>So I've reached this one year milestone, and I wanted to do an episode dedicated to highlighting some of the top tips that have been shared by some of my guests for getting keeping and growing client business. So let's start off with getting business<br><br><strong>GETTING BUSINESS</strong><br><br>Tip 1: Getting business with Spencer Gallagher<br><br>And the first tip is from Episode Seven with Spencer Gallagher.<br><br>Spencer is the author of the book Agencynomics, and Co-Founder and Joint CEO of Cact.us consultants.<br><br>He built and sold his agency and now he helps other agency leaders grow their agencies. So I asked him what he would do if he started again to get new clients.<br><br>Let's listen to how Spencer replied to that question.<br><br>********<br><br>So, so if I started to get some more I'd work on my personal brand, I'd work on learning how to talk about the process to share what I'm doing to demonstrate my expertise. And I would I would start to, I would start to build a really good network of connections. Because the number one way now, around two surveys this year journey, one was the UK lead generation survey, and one was the global lead generation survey. And if you take out the number two, number three way for for agencies to get busy is always existing clients referring other clients or existing clients leaving, but if you remove those, because they've already clients, the number one way is through networking, speaking, thought leadership, and you know, and so those three areas, you need to build your connections. You need to you know, to do to set yourself some, some numbers. I mean, I used to have this thing a blue Halo where I'd meet 50 new people each month. And I think today, it doesn't, it doesn't have to be new people, but meaningful conversations on a regular basis will build your pipeline. And if you build your authority, then those two things come together. So that's what I would do.<br><br>*****<br><br>Tip 2: Getting clients with Marcus Cauchi<br><br>Tip number two for getting client business, I'm taking it from Episode Three.<br><br>I managed to have a chat with Marcus Cauchi. Marcus is my old sales trainer and he has been hugely influential in my career.<br><br>And he's probably one of the most well known UK sales trainers and salesmen, and he's also the host of the hugely successful Inquisitor podcast, I'd highly recommend you have a listen that I think there's about over 300 episodes already.<br><br>So here's what Marcus said about the skills you need to get new business. Let's hear from Marcus now.<br><br>*****<br><br>If you develop two skills, listening, and questioning, I've never listened my way out of the sale. I've talked my way out of plenty. And most people, when they're asking questions are asking questions to gather information to gain understanding if they're slightly better, but the best questions are the ones that deliver insight.<br><br>And this is where people go horrifically wrong because they don't prepare, they turn up and they prepare the pitch. But the pitch is broadcast. It's not collecting useful insight. It's not gathering the quality information.<br><br>By the time you've turned up, you should already know most of the answers to the questions you were going to ask. Because you can do www.google.com, what would Google say? It's not like that information isn't out in the public domain. And your buyers are very savvy nowadays, they've got the sum total of human knowledge with a few clicks of a mouse available to them. So they've done a lot of their research. And they're familiar, I think with their symptoms, but they're not necessarily ofay with that cause of their problems.<br><br>And it's your job to get beyond that. Because if you are making this initial sale, your job is to beat the status quo.<br><br>60% of buying cycles and up with the incumbent solution, whether it's home grown, or another agency.<br><br>Of the 40%, 74% of those will go to the company that displaces their current preferences, helps them recognise what the cost of staying stuck will be, creates enough points of difference.<br><br>And this isn't about the product necessarily. It's about what matters to the customer and creates enough white space between you and the competition and the incumbent. And most importantly here is being able to allay their anticipated fear of regret and blame. That's how you win business.<br><br>*****<br><br>Tip 3: Getting business with Nathan Anibaba<br><br>So continuing the theme of new business in Episode 31 we talked about having an agency podcast to generate leads new business leads, and Nathan Anibaba, who is the Founder and Managing Director of Agency Dealmasters provided some examples of how podcasting can help generate new business for agencies.<br><br>So here is Nathan, and what he shared about what makes a great podcast.<br><br>*******<br><br>The secret to podcasting is that it needs to be educational. So people need to come away from it, learning something. It needs to be entertaining, and it needs to be fun. You know if you can do those three things, that's the magic trifecta.<br><br>But the most important one, especially for senior decision makers is that they have to know that when they spend their time listening to your show, they're going to come out of it better off, they're going to learn something they're going to improve, they're going to be better they're going to be able to implement something in their business as a result of it.<br><br>*****<br><br>I hope you enjoyed that quote. And by the way, if you're not listening to the Agency Dealmasters podcast, you're missing out on a fantastic one.<br><br>Nathan has been doing this much longer than I have and has had some brilliant guests, including Blair Enns from Win Without Pitching and also Rory Sutherland, the Vice Chairman of Ogilvy.<br><br>Okay, so tip number four....<br><br>Tip 4: Getting clients with Mark Goulston<br><br>Tip number four comes from my chat with Mark Goulston in Episode 33.<br><br>It's not just about the tactics for generating new business, but it's also how you show up in your new business meetings and your ability to communicate and build rapport really quickly with those prospective clients.<br><br>Mark is an ex FBI hostage negotiation trainer. He's also a psychologist, a business advisor, consultant, &nbsp;speaker, and the author of the brilliant book, Just Listen, which I highly recommend.<br><br>And he reminded us about the power of empathy in your new business meetings with prospects. Let's hear what Mark says about new business meetings.<br><br>******<br><br>In my book just listen, I use a bunch of acronyms to make something easier to remember. And I said you want to be a PAL in conversations. And PAL stands for "Purposeful Agenda-less Listening".<br><br>And I think one of the reasons people don't listen is because most people have an agenda.<br><br>I wrote a blog on why people are afraid to empathise, especially in the business world. And one of the reasons people are afraid to empathise in the business world is if I really find out where the other person's coming from what's really important to them what they care about what they really need, and it doesn't match what I'm selling. If I'm going to be really showing that I'm of service and I care about them, they're not going to buy what I have.<br><br>So I'm afraid to empathise and bring up something that means I can't sell them what I have. But the problem is, you can if you're forceful, you may push something through to someone who's intimidated by that. But, boy, if it doesn't work out, and they feel that you've sold them too hard, you're not going to win many friends or influence too many people.<br><br>*****<br><br><strong>KEEPING BUSINESS</strong><br><br>So we've listened to a few quotes, sharing some tips about getting new business, but what about keeping the existing clients that you've already got?<br><br>So let's turn our attentions to a few tips about this.<br><br>Now we know that keeping business is about strengthening your position as a trusted advisor rather than just being seen as an order taker.<br><br>Be more consultative and making sure you're consistently adding value to the client's business and surprising them with new ideas.<br><br>Tip 5: Keeping clients with Andy Young and Laura Cohen<br><br>On episode 16, and this is tip number five, I had the pleasure of speaking to the account management team at Skeleton Productions.<br><br>Andy Young and Laura Cohen shared their thoughts about what it meant to be a strategic account manager. Let's hear now what Andy said...<br><br>******<br><br>When you think of account management you think of a relationship builder. That's what you are, you're there to build relationships. But I've seen myself shifting definitely more recently to a more challenger mentality. And I think that kind of shift does elevate you in your client's eyes.<br><br>It adds additional value to them and as Laura says, it allows you to get the, get the briefs and get on to the nitty gritty so that when we go back internally, we can produce the best work possible because we fully understood their business, we fully understood their aims.<br><br>And again, to reiterate what Laura said, sometimes the client says, I want an explainer video for this, I don't want it done like this. And it's like, hang on, let's look at what you're trying to achieve. Let's look at who you're talking to. And let's see if that is the right way. You're saying you want live action. Maybe animation is better?<br><br>By having that you can really get people to think and it just builds it just builds momentum and you start then to become a trusted advisor and then they kind of reach out to you saying right, we're trying to do this in 2021. We'd love to have your input on the content plan. And things like that open up a whole new avenue of conversation and whole new way to add value to that relationship.<br><br>Tip 6: Keeping clients with Steve Richards and Ryan O'Keeffe<br><br>Tip number six for keeping existing clients was on episode 36.<br><br>I had the pleasure of speaking to the delightful Steve Richards and Ryan O'Keeffe from Jago.<br><br>Jago helps agency leaders build their personal brand and Steve reminded us of how you know those in account management can also build their personal brand and establish trust with their clients.<br><br>Let's hear what Steve had to say.<br><br>*****<br><br>Recruitment's becoming more like marketing.<br><br>And one of the things that will attract talent into your business is if you have an employee branding programme.<br><br>Actually the fastest growing businesses, a large percentage of them, have employee branding as official programmes.<br><br>&nbsp;Employee branding is basically personal branding for the employees where they are pushing out the company's marketing and brand through their own social channels.<br><br>Because they get 560% more engagement than the company channels.<br><br>So actually, if you're an account manager, it makes sense for you to be investing in your personal brand for your career opportunities going forward, but also for maintaining those relationships.<br><br>Because if you're on LinkedIn (or wherever) putting out content and your clients are following you on LinkedIn, you're front of their mind and it helps you scale trust faster and quicker, and build stronger relationships, deeper, more meaningful relationships with your clients because they're not just having account management calls. They're seeing you in between the calls and totally buying into you and the value that you bring.<br><br>Tip 7: Keeping clients with Simon Rhind-Tutt<br><br>Tip number seven comes from Episode 27, I had the opportunity to chat to Simon Rhind-Tutt and Carey Evans from Relationship Audit and Management (RAM) and they shared a top tip.<br><br>RAM have interviewed hundreds of clients over a huge number of years. They basically audit the relationship between clients and suppliers.<br><br>So they work on behalf of agencies to go in and interview your clients. And they always listen for what's not being said and they ask the difficult questions.<br><br>So inevitably, they come back with these really deep insights about how your clients really think about you.<br><br>Simon had some wise words to share about tactics for us in the account management role, to improving client relationships.<br><br>Let's hear what Simon said:<br><br>*********<br><br>With the intensity of deliverables and the problems associated with remote working, one of the casualties of this are regular post project reviews.<br><br>What we're seeing is they're being sacrificed just in the charge to get everything done.<br><br>If you are holding regular post project reviews, to look at what's worked and why it's worked, particularly in terms of process, but also to look at where problems have occurred, and what the agency can be doing to prevent those problems occurring again, one of which may be forward planning, you will have a much much better client relationship.<br><br><strong>GROWING CLIENT BUSINESS</strong><br><br>I hope you're enjoying these insights and tips for getting and keeping client business.<br><br>We're now going to turn our attentions to growth of accounts.<br><br>So reflecting back on all of the interviews I've had, I wanted to pull out a couple of quotes that I thought were really relevant to this area.<br><br>At the end of 2019 Gartner conducted a piece of research among 700 business to business organisations, and account managers.<br><br>And they asked them what they thought it took to grow existing business.<br><br>And a lot of account managers said exceptional service.<br><br>But the surprising reality and the conclusion of this of this research was the actually, you have to have client improvement conversations.<br><br>And that means being hugely commercially aware, understanding your client's business, and also having the ability to offer insight and help your client grow their business.<br><br>So the starting point is having commercial acumen, understanding their business, their industry, asking great questions to uncover challenges and then pro-actively surprising the client by bringing them new ideas, and helping the client capitalise on these future business opportunities.<br><br>Or conversely helping them avoid future problems.<br><br>So for this, you need to be situationally aware, which means keeping an eye on the changes in your industry, the clients industry, and also the market in general.<br><br>So there was a lovely quote from Carey Evans from RAM which highlighted the importance of sharing your knowledge. And this was on episode 38.<br><br>So let's hear what Carey said.<br><br>*******<br><br>100% of clients want their agencies to leverage their learning with other clients to their benefit.<br><br>25% of agencies do so.<br><br>100 versus 25. It's dead easy, right?<br><br>If you're doing stuff for a certain client that works and you see an analogous situation with another client that could benefit from a similar sort of situation, then why not share? (confidentiality being prime of course), but you can certainly talk broad principles as and when you do it.<br><br>Of course, the great thing is you can also turn these things into case studies, whereby it becomes an agency library of how to reapply learning from one situation to another while making adjustments at the margin.<br><br>*****<br><br><br><br><br>Tip 9: Growing clients with David C. Baker<br><br>Tip Number nine comes from Episode 24. I had the absolute pleasure of chatting to David C. Baker, who is the author of the book "The Business of Expertise", and the co-host of the massively popular 2Bob's podcast.<br><br><br><br><br>David consults with agency leaders he has done for a number of years.<br><br>And this is what he had to say about how to grow existing business.<br><br>*******<br><br>Jenny:<br><br>So what do you advise agency leaders do when they say to you that they want to grow their accounts, what are your go to pieces of advice for them?<br><br>David:<br><br>The single thing that I think is most important there is to keep simulating the first year you work for the client.<br><br>So when you presumably, when you land a client, they were already working with somebody else. If they weren't, then they probably are not a good client.<br><br>In other words, you're not the first agency they're working with. That's a sign of a client, that's a good fit.<br><br>&nbsp;And they came to you, because something about the previous firm was stale.<br><br>They weren't reinventing things. They were just doing the minimum, whatever those things were, and you impressed them out of the gate.<br><br>And you were a little bit surprised you landed it, and now you're doing everything you can to fill those expectations that they have.<br><br>But then you slide into the same thing the other previous agency did, and you have new clients coming along all the time. And you kind of forget these and you don't every year say, All right, let's not just modify last year's plan, let's instead look at what would we do completely differently if we inherited this plan from another agency? What could we do differently.<br><br>And I think that's the biggest thing you can do to grow accounts and to keep them.<br><br>The goal isn't to keep them forever. The goal is to keep them for the right amount of time. And that could be for two years or five years. Seldom is it longer than that.<br><br>And the key to that is to there are a lot of things out of your control, obviously. But the key to that is to treat it like it's a new year every year and this is a client we're still really trying hard to impress.<br><br>*******<br><br>Tip 10: Growing clients with Sam Bridger<br><br>And finally, tip number 10. I want to give you a tip about asking for referrals, which is a great way to grow your existing client business.<br><br>I too often meet agency account managers who feel it's too pushy or too salesy to ask their clients for referrals, either to other areas of the business or to their network, even when the relationship is really, really strong.<br><br>And sometimes account managers anticipate that the client might feel that they don't want their agency to work with anybody else. So that's another reason that they don't ask for referrals.<br><br>But I spoke to Sam Bridger on episode 22. And Sam is an interim marketing director. She's worked in marketing at a high level for over 30 years and has managed a huge amount of agencies through her time.<br><br>And I asked her the question about referrals and whether in her experience working for multiple different companies and multiple different agencies, whether she'd ever been asked for a referral. And here's what she said.....<br><br>******<br><br>Jenny:<br><br>If you're if you've got an agency that's working really well with you, and you love them, it's been going on for a while and they've been performing really well and bringing you new ideas, new insights, etc. Have you ever been asked by an agency of that kind for referrals? e.g. can you refer me to other parts of the business or can you refer me to....<br><br>Sam:<br><br>That's really interesting Jenny I don't think I ever have actually. &nbsp;I have done it. I have said to other parts of the business 'you should work with this agency'.<br><br>And the example I gave earlier on about the Mercedes roster got agencies working for other parts of the business.<br><br>But I don't think anyone has ever explicitly said "Could you recommend me to someone you know", whether inside or outside the business.<br><br>So that's, that's a really good tip I think. Do that.<br><br>Jenny:<br><br>Okay, so if someone had asked you, would you have helped?<br><br>Sam:<br><br>If I thought they were a good agency, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's all about helping each other out. So, yeah, I would have no qualms in recommending it.<br><br>And I have, you know, subsequently as a client, obviously, I've gone on to, from one business to another entity. I've worked with that agent that afar but wonder if they could help us. You keep hold of the good ones.<br><br>*****<br><br>Again, I hope you're taking notes and getting some inspiration from these tips that my ex guests have shared.<br><br><br><br><br>So to finish off, I want to finish off with a little good news story from one of my account accelerator participants, Laura Cohen, she actually put into place the referral strategy that I teach, and her confidence grew as a result, the positive response that she got from her client, when she asked him for a referral.<br><br>So I want to share this little quote from Laura now:<br><br>*****<br><br>Asking for referrals at the beginning seemed a very unnatural thing before. And for the training, it made complete sense why you would do that because it also instils total confidence in what you're about to deliver to the client as well. And it's just sometimes we're very British about it. But with a client that I had in mind then I contacted them and just asked them about, you know, the referral and he was absolutely completely afraid. It was it was like a normal process. It was expected. It's that confidence to say 'this is okay, this is normal. It's okay to ask for referrals'.<br><br><br><br><br>****<br><br><br><br><br>I hope you enjoyed these top tips for getting keeping and growing client business and maybe your you'll implement one or two of them.<br><br><br><br><br>If you'd like to join my account accelerator training programme, which is for agency account management teams to help them grow existing business then the next group starts on 23rd September 2021.<br><br><br><br><br>You can find all the details at https://accountmanagementskills.com/training or drop me a line on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant, or send me an email at Jenny@accountmanagementskills.com.<br><br><br>I look forward to speaking to you</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2021 06:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/68x3rn4w.mp3" length="26990153" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/28a3ea60-f37d-11eb-978c-1789e36dfd7f/28a3eb80-f37d-11eb-b978-379f6b7662b6.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>1349</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Creative agencies live and die by their ability to get, keep and grow clients.

If you're a creative agency leader or in agency account management and want some useful insights and tips then listen to this episode.

It's a compilation of soundbites from my guests who have shared some brilliant golden nuggets during the year I have been recording the podcast.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Creative agencies live and die by their ability to get, keep and grow clients.

If you're a creative agency leader or in agency account management and want some useful insights and tips then listen to this episode.

It's a compilation of soundbites from my guests who have shared some brilliant golden nuggets during the year I have been recording the podcast.</itunes:subtitle>
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      <title>UK Creative Agency Recruitment Trends, with Phil Cookson</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/mn4m0w98</link>
      <itunes:title>UK Creative Agency Recruitment Trends, with Phil Cookson</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>41</itunes:episode>
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      <guid isPermaLink="false">x0667vm0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 41. In this episode, Phil Cookson and I talk about the current trends in the creative agency recruitment space. 

We talk about why agencies are struggling to hire right now, what they need to do differently to attract the right people, how the market is evolving. 

And there are also some tips for you if you are currently looking for a role and you want to find the right agency. I hope you enjoy this chat with Phil. I certainly did. 

A quick reminder that my next Account Accelerator Programme is starting on September 23rd 2021. This programme is all about building confidence for account managers. It's designed to take you from unpredictable project revenue to more predictable account growth. #

You can find more details on my website at accountmanagementskills.com/training or get in touch on LinkedIn Jenny Plant, or pop me an email jenny@accountmanagementskills.com</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:</strong><br>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>00:02</div><div>So on today's episode, I'm really thrilled to have <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/philcookson/">Phil Cookson</a> with me. Phil is director of <a href="http://www.creativeresource.co.uk/">Creative Resource</a>. He's also the cofounder of <a href="https://www.schoolofthought.co.uk/">School of Thought</a>, a not for profit organisation with the objective of helping to develop the creative sector in the north of England. So I'd love to dive into that bit, Phil, later. And he's got 17 years experience in the creative and marketing sectors. And that's one of the big reasons that I've invited Phil on today. He's so active online, he has a very buoyant agency, recruitment agency. And I've asked him particularly to share his observations, thoughts, and tips for recruitment, both for creative agencies and also for candidates. So Phil , a massive welcome to you.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>00:49</div><div>Thank you. Thanks for having me, Jenny. Really looking forward to it.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>00:52</div><div>Yeah, me too. I can't wait. So would you mind first of all, Phil just kicking off by spending a few minutes talking about you, your background, what you do now and who you help.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>01:02</div><div>Yeah, so as you said, 17 years in recruitment now for the creative, and marketing sector, predominantly agencies. We also do it with brands as well. We focus primarily on the north of England, really they're our heartlands that we like to stick within and really get the relationships deep, which which you can do when you've been doing it as long as I have you, you tend to have some really long standing relationships, which is really good. We're now a team of eight, hopefully soon to be a much larger team if I can find some staff for myself, which is it's not very easy. It's quite a funny thing, isn't it? Recruiters saying they're finding recruiting stuff very difficult. So, yeah, hopefully bigger team soon. And then I'm co founder School of Thought. School of Thought's been around for six years now in the North. We basically run a 12 week intensive, creative course and competition that happens every year in Manchester. And we're now in our second year in Leeds. We've had, I think, by the end of this current year, we'll have had 113 people who've gone through the School of Thought programme. Every week is hosted by a different agency in the north, they set the group a brief, and we come up with some ideas to crack it. And it's a lot of fun. And I think the creatives that do it would all probably agree they've all come out of it having learned a huge amount of skills and experience. And we think we have one of the best First Prizes of anything going as well. So the winner's prize is a trip to Cannes Lions, so which is pretty life changing for the people who've been.&nbsp; Unfortunately, with Cannes not having run for last year, initially, I've got a little backlog of people I need to send. So hopefully next year,&nbsp; I'll be very heavily involved in my travel agent duties of getting several people over to Cannes, the tickets and the accommodation and things. It's a lot of fun, School of Thought.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>03:23</div><div>It sounds like a fantastic prize. And is that open to just creatives or is it across the board? For anyone in the agency?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>03:31</div><div>Yeah, across the board. We've had quite a few account handlers do it. We've had quite a few planners, quite a few marketing people from client side as well. So but , anybody who thinks you know, ideas are important. And I think we'd all agree they are. I think anybody who wants to get better at developing ideas, recognising big ideas, pitching big ideas. Yes, it's for anybody. And we have people just coming into the industry through to senior people as well. So it's a real cross section of people from different backgrounds and different levels.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>04:10</div><div>And just briefly Phil, why did, how did that come about? Why did you start that?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>04:14</div><div>It came about with my cofounder, David is from Australia, and he had experience with the program in Australia called the <a href="https://awardonline.com/education/award-school">Award School</a>, which is run on a similar style. And when he came to Manchester, he said to me, have you got anything like this in Manchester, or even the UK? And I said, No, I don't think we have. So I said to him why don't you do something like that? He said, right I will do but you're going to help me. So I got roped in to help him because he had the idea of how it would work and I had all the connections in the agencies that we needed to get agreement to come on board and do it with us. So that was where we originally came from.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>04:59</div><div>It's actually a very shrewd move, isn't it because it's, it not only works for the individuals who are taking part in the program , but it also creates kind of an event, a program&nbsp; where you're then developing more relationships with the industry. So it's kind of a win win, isn't it?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>05:16</div><div>Yeah, it's great because I get to spend time&nbsp; with all the agencies,&nbsp; through the program. We, COVID allowing, we always have a big event at the end of it in Manchester, or Leeds, where we hopefully get as many agencies and creative people down as possible, usually 150 to 200 people there having drinks, looking at what's been produced over the 12 weeks, and it's a real celebration of what the 12 people have done. And also a chance for the industry in those cities to come together. And School of Thought is about helping the creative ecosystem, in those cities. It's by the agencies, for the agencies and I see myself as a facilitator, really, who brings it together. &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>06:08</div><div>Fantastic, fantastic. So listen, Phil, I'm really keen, and I'm sure the listeners are to get from your side, what what you're seeing in terms of the general trends in the creative agency recruitment market currently, and perhaps since the whole COVID thing's happened, and what are you seeing?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>06:29</div><div>This year, in particular, it seems like everybody's trying to hire. It really does seem like every agency that I speak to us, has really come through last year in in really fine fettle. Most conversations last year, people were saying things are okay,&nbsp; we're going along fine. And then it almost seems like at the start of this year, clients have pressed a button, and all of a sudden, everybody's snowed under. So the majority of the roles we're seen and that we're recruiting for, they're all growth, they're all new roles. There's very few replacement roles. The majority of agencies seems to be growing and getting bigger. And, certainly the agency market in the North is really vibrant at the moment.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>07:26</div><div>Is it growth within a certain type of role, or is it across the board, every type of role for agencies?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>07:33</div><div>It's really across the board, I mean, that there are huge amounts of roles in account handling and creative, but, even in niches like traffic managers, and studio managers, and you don't see many of those roles about but people are hiring them because they're getting busier. And the whole range of digital marketing roles are constantly growing, paid media, and in particular, is one that's really going up and up and up. But it's really across the whole range of types of agency roles.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>08:10</div><div>And are you finding that there are the candidates available? Or is that the balance that everyone's looking for someone but no one's available?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>08:18</div><div>At the moment the balance between supply and demand is very out of our focus. There's far more demand than supply at the moment. There's general shortages in all areas. We certainly feel from some of the conversations we're having, that there's a lot of people who have perhaps been safe in their role for the last 15 months since the pandemic started telling us that they're putting their career moves on hold, until they feel there's a bit more confidence that things are back to normal. So there is a, like I say it's wildly out of kilter between supply and demand. And I must say in all the years I've been recruiting, there aren't many years where supply and demand are equal. I can probably think of two years maybe in the last 17-18 years, where you might argue that supply and demand are equal. Very often, it's one way or the other. But I've never seen it quite so out of kilter.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>09:29</div><div>How are agencies responding? Are they putting up their salaries? Are they&nbsp; doing a mixture of coming to you as a recruitment agency, but also doing a lot of their recruitment themselves? How are they responding to the lack of candidates, because that must be hugely frustrating.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>09:47</div><div>It's difficult and I think agencies are coming to us they're doing their own networks and and their own advertising as well to try and get a shortlist and I think what we've found working with agencies that have successfully recruited this year is they've moved away from this thought that they must interview four people for a job. If they can get their head around the fact that they might only interview one person, and they need to compare that person to their own criteria, and then make a decision. Salaries, yes, they are going up. And I think people are willing to pay good money for good people. I have not seen too many examples of salaries going ridiculous, which I'm glad, because that can send the whole market flying upwards if, all of a sudden, one agency or a couple of agencies start paying 10,000 pounds more for what other agencies are paying it forces everybody up I don't think anybody wants to see that. But at the same time, if there's a good candidate available, I think you need to pay them a good wage to secure them otherwise someone else will.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>11:11</div><div>Absolutely. So I'm going to come back to this topic a little bit later, because I'd love to hear more tips and advice that you would give to agencies. I'm just interested, obviously, we've got a candidate shortage. What is the industry doing to attract new talent&nbsp; into the agency world? Are we doing a good job?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>11:30</div><div>I don't think we are. Well, I think we attract talent that wants to come into it agencies. But I think agencies generally are quite nervous about bringing people in, without any agency experience.&nbsp; It's almost like a big thing that if you haven't got agency experience, you won't be able to do the job, you won't be able to understand what we do. And I don't think it's quite that simple. And I don't think it's quite that true. I think, there are people who are&nbsp; maybe they've been in house, and they want to try agency. And there's still a nervousness about bringing them in. But I was speaking to an agency a few weeks ago, a talent manager at an agency and we were talking about this issue. And she said, well, brands are quite happy to take people from agencies who've never worked in a brand before, why aren't we happy to do the same? So there are people trying to get into agencies, but I do feel there's a bit of nervousness about people without agency experience.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>12:41</div><div>And why do you think that is?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>12:43</div><div>I think you do find most agencies, when you do talk to them about that they've probably had a bad experience at some point of somebody who's come in from an in house role and not worked out or not enjoyed it. And I think that some, in some cases, that one bad experience puts them off. You've got a bad apple, so you throw away the bunch type thing. And I feel that there is a little bit of that, in that type of thing. And also, I think sometimes we don't make enough of the fact that, particularly with account handling, there are other sectors where there are very strong B2B client services people that could probably be very well utilised by an agency and we don't, again, don't seem willing to look outside the box at people who've maybe come from a completely different type of industry, but have brilliant account handling and client services skills.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>13:45</div><div>I agree there. In a way, in my personal experience of employing people in the past that have been in-house like working as a marketing manager role, and then they come agency side, it's like a baptism of fire. And in my experience, it hasn't worked out. I can't say that. I mean, I can think of a few examples where it has so I'm not saying that this is, but I almost sympathise and empathise with the agencies that have said this, because I've seen it happen myself. I think the pace that we work in an agency is incredible. And if you're not used to that pace, or you're not used to juggling a million things,&nbsp; it can very quickly say, Oh, God, I just I'm gonna go back to, you know, do you agree? Is that the kind of feedback that you're getting?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>14:33</div><div>Yeah, and you're right. I've seen people who've who've tried to make that move, and it hasn't worked out. And you know, they haven't enjoyed it. And I think, for me, it's about like, trying to identify what type of experience they've got from an in house environment. And there's very different pace in, say, a retail brand than there would be in an engineering brand,&nbsp; and so I think sometimes you've got to try and look between the lines, what type of experience they've got and where they've been, and what are their motivations for coming to an agency, because the ones that I've seen have made it successful are the ones that have come to me and said, I look at what my agency is doing and I just wished I was there rather than here. And I don't feel the pace is enough for me in my current role, I want to get into an agency because I want the pace and I want the variety. Because I think, especially when you start your career, and I would always advise this to anyone starting a career, when you get a first job offer, you often take it, if that happens to be client side, but&nbsp; you might have the personality to suit an agency, you just didn't get, your first job offer wasn't an agency job. So sometimes and it happens the other way round, I've seen lots of people, two or three years in an agency in the first job, and they realise it's not for me, and they go the other way. And you've got to understand that sometimes people haven't been able to get that perfect job first time around. And it might be that&nbsp; they realise through working for two or three years, I'd rather be on the other side of the fence and make use of those people that want to do that.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>16:15</div><div>Yeah, that's fair enough. I mean, I suppose going back to the subject of attracting talent, I mean, are you seeing that a lot of agencies are interested in sort of graduates coming through? And do you do anything, because what occurred to me when you were talking there was the benefit of having someone involved in the recruitment process, a) because it's hugely time consuming but too that you can offer that kind of perspective on things that you can really talk about the candidate in, I don't like particularly like this word, but a holistic sense, you know, look at this, look at that, look at their motivation, so that's guiding them, is really valuable.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>16:51</div><div>Yeah, I think agencies are, you know, interested in graduate talent. And I think we do an event every year called <a href="https://creativeresource.co.uk/event/two-two-2021">Two+Two</a>, which is a full day event for marketing and creative students to work on a brief together, and we get around 50 different agencies to come down and spend the day with them, mentoring them. And lots of agencies pick up talent from that event. And also, you see a lot of the students, their eyes being open to actually what agencies do. Because I think there's definitely an issue there in terms of do graduates understand what agencies do and what roles are available. And we've we've found quite a few have gone into account handling off the back of that event, because they've met people from agencies who've talked to them about what they do, and what roles are available. And all of a sudden,&nbsp; they've said to us, we had no idea this existed,&nbsp; and I think that, and I don't know&nbsp; quite why this has changed, but certainly, if you went back 10 or 15 years, if you put an ad out for a graduate account exec, you'd get lots of people applying with relevant degrees, perhaps with placement experience, you'd get a lot of people. Now, when those same ads go out, you get virtually nothing. And I don't know quite why that graduates now don't seem to either understand or be attracted to agency life in the same way that perhaps 15, 20, 30 years ago people did. So haven't got an answer for that as such. All I know, is that a lot of the unis that talk to us they don't feel that their students know a lot about agencies. So is the industry sort of portraying itself and communicating itself as well as it could do, is probably the question.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>18:53</div><div>I think you're on the money here. I think your event sounds fantastic. And obviously, we will include a link for anyone listening that that wants to get into the industry. Absolutely. I think, from my experience, the Pharmaceutical Marketing Society, they do an event for graduates, which is hugely beneficial, because they get to see...so I think I think you're on the money there. Also, I've spoken to new graduates that have joined an agency and have said to me, I had no idea what the hell, you know, and I thought this this company, this agency had a graduate scheme. So I think there's a real gap in the market there.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>19:31</div><div>And I think, you know, as well, we see graduates coming out now, and I think graduate salary expectations have perhaps gone up in the last few years as well. And I'm not sure agency entry level salaries have gone up too match. Certainly, in the North, I think most agencies would say for an entry level grad, they'd probably looking to pay around 18k, maybe 20 if they had a placement year, but I would say most graduates, and the really good graduates, the ones that you want, they're looking for more than that. And you've got other industries, not necessarily,&nbsp; maybe client side, but even tech startups and things like that, that will pay more. And you're not just competing for salary against a talent against the agency down the road, you're competing for it against in house roles, graduate schemes, tech companies. It'd not as simple as just saying, Oh, well, they want to be in an agency. So they'll come to us, you're competing in a wider, a wider ecosystem, really, than just agencies. &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>20:43</div><div>It's so true, Phil, and I think, and that's something I've heard also in the past is that the tech sector, are attracting our talent in a better way. And, you know, maybe we should be modelling what they're doing. That would be an interesting project to look at how the companies I mean, even the likes of Facebook, Google, Twitter, the big companies who are, Apple, the companies that everyone knows about in the tech industry, and that that probably to a graduate would seem a lot more exciting. But, you know, hey, I'm not 100% sure, like you say, but I think there's a massive gap here.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>21:17</div><div>Yeah, and I think you're right, as well about saying that people who start in agencies at entry level are almost being left to their own devices, in a way, because agencies, especially small to medium sized agencies,&nbsp; and in the North, we've got a lot of agencies that you would class of that size not having a focused talent function. And your development is almost left down to whether you get a good line manager or not. And often those line managers haven't been trained, perhaps in the right way, or even trained to manage a more junior member of staff. So you're almost getting people who don't fully know&nbsp; what they're doing, managing and training somebody else. &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>22:05</div><div>It's the blind leading the blind, Phil, isn't it?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>22:07</div><div>Yeah. And that's a difficulty and say, in terms of how do you get those people when they're in,&nbsp; how do you help them to progress and develop and to grow and to feel like their career is going forward in the right direction? That's a real challenge.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>22:27</div><div>Okay. So that I think, again, you're on the money with this, because, yes, I don't know of many agencies with really comprehensive staff onboarding programmes .It's like here's the desk, this is the client, blah, blah, blah. So I like this, I think it's a good conversation to be having, because maybe it's going to bring to the agency's mind anyone listening, right, we need to focus some time here. But can you give me some examples of agencies that are attracting the talent? And why are they attracting that talent?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>22:58</div><div>Yeah, I think certainly, as I was saying not focusing on, we must have a shortlist of four people is really important. And also hhose that are willing to hire on on culture fit and potential. So one of the things I've been saying quite recently, and I think it sums up what I've been talking about with a lot of agencies is don't look for a unicorn, if you look for unicorn, you might be disappointed. But if you can find a horse, and then you can add the horn yourself when they're inside the building, and it's sort of like the way I think agencies are attracting talent, the ones that are looking at it and going, Well, we might not find somebody who ticks 10 out of 10 boxes, but if we find someone that ticks eight out of 10, and is a great culture fit,&nbsp; we can fill in those other gaps. And I think that's a really sort of clever and smart way of looking at it. At the moment, I think you've got to think in those ways.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>24:07</div><div>I like that analogy. And I think that's a great argument to say. But what are the traits that you're looking for? You know when you've been working with people, the ones who are self starters, that get stuff done, that is always asking, what else can I do now? Is this okay? What could I read behind the scenes to kind of get me up to speed with this and you can almost feel that they're going to be fantastic. And I funnily enough, I ended up talking to her a CSD yesterday who was of that ilk. And I ended up saying to he,r Can I just tell you how impressed I am with you? Yeah, she went, Oh, I feel like an imposter. I said, don't worry about it. She didn't have necessarily a lot of formal training. But my God, was she all over it. Sorry, you're the expert, I'm not.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>24:53</div><div>I think you're right,&nbsp; they're always the things that I look for and I think the agencies that I work with are looking for is , it's an attitude, isn't it as much as anything else. And if people have the right attitude, like say you can educate them in areas that you need to, and you can develop skills, but that attitude and that willingness to ask questions and to look for work. And if you go back to entry level people, the advice I always give to people at that level, when they're going for interviews or internships, I always say to them if you ask people in the agency, what can I do to help you? What can I do to make your life easier, they will love you and that rings true, probably throughout their career. If you're asking yourself, what can I do to make everybody else's life easier in the agency? How can I ease the pressure on your shoulders? They will love you and they'll want you around, won't they?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>25:55</div><div>Absolutely, I think that's a magic question. Very good tip. So these agencies that are currently attracting the talent, tell me your views on how proactive they are with their own marketing of their own agency, does that have a bearing on how the candidate sees them? What else could agencies be doing to make themselves more attractive, so that they're actually drawing them in?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>26:22</div><div>Yeah, I think we need to be more visible, I think all agencies needs to be more visible, I think it helps to have a reputation. And&nbsp; that doesn't just mean like winning awards, it can be more of a reputation about the type of culture you've got. And I'm not sure agencies do a great deal of talk about that. Some do. And I think it's a really good public portrayal to really&nbsp; show what type of culture and what type of environment you've got. And I think that really helps if you can really get that across to people. And I think as wel through working with us one of the great things we're good at is telling and crafting these stories about agencies and because I understand not every agency has the time to really do a lot of their own marketing. And sometimes&nbsp; we can tell a really good story, and a really good insight into the type of place it is to get a candidate to look at it that maybe it wouldn't have been on their radar before because there are hundreds of agencies. And over the years I've talked to a lot of candidates who say things to me, like, Well, I think I know all the agencies that I'd want to work for. And I say, Do you realise how many agencies there are?&nbsp; I'm sure I can introduce you to a few that you've never heard of that you would absolutely love. So certainly we help in that regard in terms of&nbsp; making those connections and introducing new agencies to people that they haven't heard of before.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>28:07</div><div>Great point.&nbsp; And I love the fact that you help agencies craft that story, because you're right,&nbsp; I remember recruiting before, it's like, what's the job description? Let's just get it out there. You know, there's no thought that goes into it. So having someone else to add that value, I think is key. I want to move on to the account management function specifically, because I obviously this is Creative Agency Account Manager, what value do you think a good account manager brings to the agency?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>28:37</div><div>Something stuck with me, many, many years ago, talking to an agency MD, about this. And his point to me was that a good account manager is one that will get the brief right first time, at least 95% of the time. And his point of view was that someone who could do that is worth the weight in gold, and will keep his agency's profit margin going north, and account managers that get the brief wrong more times than they get it right, you know, are going to be sending it southwards on that profit margin. And that stuck with me. And that was probably like 16 years ago, I was told that and it's always stuck with me is sort of a really good way of summing up the value of a good account manager.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>29:35</div><div>It's a good point, actually, because in order to write a good brief, you've got to have the skills behind it to be asking the right questions, to challenge the brief, to make sure that you've done your research. So a lot is encompassed in that statement, isn't it? You know, if the final brief is the right one, and everyone works to it, not only are you saving a huge amount of time and effort and money, but it demonstrates that the account manager is doing exactly what they need to do.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>30:05</div><div>&nbsp;And I think as well that ability to work successfully with the creatives and that ability to understand creativity is really important. And one of the things we enjoy with the Handle This event is it's often the first time that marketing students and creative students have worked together, because the way universities are structured, they tend to be in different departments, the marketing degrees in the business school, the creative courses are in the art school. And the way universities are structured, they can't do cross department courses and units. And often it's the first time they've ever worked together. And&nbsp; the way you see their eyes opening about what the other person does and the skills that they bring to the table is wonderful. And I think that ability to really get the best out of your creatives as an account manager and get them on your side is really important as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>31:07</div><div>Love that. Yeah, that's so so true. And so what do agencies or what else do agencies want from account managers? Get the brief right, be able to work with the creative team, obviously proactivity, as we've discussed, what else anything else that they're asking for?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>31:25</div><div>I think the dream for most agency owners is&nbsp; account handlers that can grow existing clients. And I've always felt that sales is seen as a dirty word, within agency account managers often, that they don't want to think that sales is something that they have to do but, but I think agency MDs, and chief execs would like them to be able to do it. And again, I remember a young lady many years ago, an account exec that I met, and she'd only been in the industry for 18 months. And she was telling me that she'd proactively reached out to the marketing director of one of our agencies clients with an idea, the marketing director loved it, got the agency involved on it, and she grew the client spend by 400%. And she was 18 months in and I said to her, you will go far. When you tell that story to any agenc that's hiring, they will love that. And she&nbsp; did, she's gone on to have a brilliant career, very, very successful. And you could see it from those early days. And I think that's the dream for a lot of agency leadership - people that can do that.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>32:45</div><div>I agree. And I've had that similar conversation with all the account managers, and that's why I put the Account Accelerator Program together is because of exactly what you said, most account managers don't feel that they necessarily are in sales, but they still need that skill of growing existing accounts. And you do not have to be a sleazy car salesman, in that connotation of sales, it really can be really seamless. So I'm with you. 100%.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>33:15</div><div>Yeah, and I think it's a tough job, isn't it? I think we ask a lot of the account managers in the industry, and I think the workload is growing. And I think people are putting more on account handlers, which is tough, because I always thin&nbsp; account managers get flack from every direction,it comes to left and right, and up and down. And that's a tough place to be, isn't it? It's a really tough spot to be in the agency.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>33:46</div><div>I spoke to David C. Baker about this. And he said it was the hardest job in the agency. And I think you're absolutely spot on it is, you do get flak from all directions. But if you are super ambitious, and you want to develop your career, then what better than to grow an existing account, because you will get the recognition, you'll get the career growth. And you know, and that demonstrates a huge level of productivity. So kudos to that girl that did that. So just in terms of currently, is there a big demand for account managers? Or is there a shortfall particularly?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>34:19</div><div>Yeah, the demand for account managers is huge at the moment.&nbsp; I have not known a demand like this in all the time I've been recruiting and I must counter that with what I was saying before about supply, and the supply is dwindling, of account managers. We're speaking to lots who are basically going client side or leaving the industry altogether, spoke to several you've left the industry all together to do something completely different. And I think the analogy I've been using for this is that I almost feel like the account handling recruitment market is like a game of musical chairs. And there's always some chairs empty. But there's always people moving around and sitting down on different chairs. So we've not quite noticed that there's not enough people in the game. Whereas now there's not as many people walking around, looking to sit down on a chair. So now we're noticing as an industry, there's a lot of empty chairs. And I don't know if that analogy makes sense. But that's how I've been been explaining it to people. And I think it's true that we just, we've always had a shortage, but it's been exacerbated by people leaving the industry and others may be just sitting tight in roles, because they're not confident to move yet. So there's just a demand out there that can't be satisfied at the moment.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>35:54</div><div>I love your analogies. Phil, it's really good. I'm just thinking about that. Is it like a perpetual situation where you've got a gap? You need some account managers, you haven't got them. So it puts pressure on the rest of them with extra work, and then they end up leaving. And then you get a new one in and but there's still a gap there?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>36:17</div><div>I think that's a real issue, and could be one moving forward, because you know all these agencies that have got gaps they're looking to fill you're right, they'll be putting extra pressure on&nbsp; existing staff. And that's not good in the long term. And I remember one agency many years ago&nbsp; said to me with their account handlers, they always over staffed on their account handlers. They always had at least one or two more than they felt they needed, just to make sure that the workload never got too much, they were covered for holidays, they were covered if somebody left, and I thought what a really enlightened way to run an agency, and that agency never had any problems with account handlers leaving, they kept them for years, because they were never overworked.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>37:11</div><div>Wow, I'm sure there are a lot of people thinking about this. And because a lot of the time it's down to the business model, isn't it? Because we sell hours, we're always trying to make the profit margins work, and therefore, there's no scope to have people sitting there not doing much. And so there's always that balance, isn't it? I think that's a really great example of an agency that's obviously&nbsp; probably had a different financial position that they could afford to do that. But it's worked out.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>37:41</div><div>And I think it's a case of slightly more cost on staff, but if that saves you money on losing staff, and the problems of then re recruiting to replace them and you might utilise freelancers in that period when you're looking for someone, and that's got a cost assigned to it. So I think&nbsp; it probably balanced out over time for the agency because they were investing properly in the people that they had in the building at that moment in time.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>38:16</div><div>I think you're right. So I'm thinking about agencies that might be listening to this thinking, right we need staff, it's taking ages, it's looks like it's putting pressure on the rest of the team. Can you share some tips or guidance for agencies who want to recruit the best team, you've already said have a dedicated talent manager, if you can, obviously, create a fantastic culture, and so that people are attracted. Open your vision a little bit in terms of looking at..open your mind to a candidate and not have the expectation of having four interviews, times are different,&nbsp; anything else that you haven't said that you could add to that?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>39:03</div><div>I think the flexibility angle is is really important at the moment. There's certainly, you know, applicants are looking for more flexibility than then they perhaps had in the past. That hybrid working model is really important to applicants at the moment people want that sort of two or three days in the office two or three days at home is really important. So to think about that because it can open up people that might not have ordinarily commuted to your location for five days, but they might do for two or three days. Which is a good option. I think as well there is still an issue I think with the industry being unsure about people working&nbsp; three or four days a week and not being full time and I think we miss out on a lot of talent that leaves because they can't work three or four days a week. We had an agency quite recently that was looking for somebody. And we found them a very talented account manager, who had a young child and could only work three days a week. And, you know, good on them&nbsp; they interviewed her, loved her, as said we'll make this work, because she was great, and she fitted, and they will make it work. I know of others that want to work three or four days a week and don't feel that an agency is the best place for them to do that. So I think we will lose some talent through the exit door in that situation.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>40:43</div><div>Have you had complaints from agencies who perhaps have been open to taking someone part time, and it hasn't worked out? What are they kind of saying to you? What's their nightmare scenarios that have happened? Anything?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>40:55</div><div>I think it's about not being now when a client needs you, isn't it? That's the worry, isn't it, that you know that your day off is Friday, and the client emails on a Friday and you're not there, I think that's the worry. But even going back many years, I remember an agency where I found someone who wanted three days a week and the MD said I'm just not sure Phil, but let's do it on three months contract and see how it goes. And at the end of the three months, he said Phil, I'm completely sold. The amount of work that she gets through in three days, is putting other people to shame,&nbsp; working five days, because she was so well organised on those three days, there was never a problem on the day she wasn't working. And I think we just need to, you just need to find solutions, whether that be a buddy system, a lot of people who will want to work three or four days a week will still check their emails on the days they're off. They will do it. I'm not saying it's right. But they are willing to do that for that sacrifice, to have that extra day that they might need for personal reasons.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>42:11</div><div>I suppose it comes down to, obviously, circumstances but also attitude, doesn't it? And does this fit? Will it work? And will the candidate do everything that they can to make it work plus the agency be flexible enough to kind of try to do anything they can behind the scenes to make it work? So you're right. I mean, so are you finding that any candidates are saying I want 100%? work from home?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>42:36</div><div>Not really no, very few. I think there's a general thing, people have missed the office. And I think most people who work in agencies are, enjoy working with people, we're that type of animal, I think that wants to be in a room with other people. So I think there's some great things about working from home. And I think that not having to travel for client meetings as often I think is probably a real beneficial thing, not having to spend your day on a train down to London and back just for one meeting. I think there's real benefits to that. But I think everybody wants to, to be in the office at various points and understands that creativity is better created generally thinking&nbsp; in a shared space with other people. So most people seem to want a hybrid model.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>43:31</div><div>Personally, because I started in agency so long ago, I find that actually, the positive that's come out of this pandemic is that there is more flexibility that people are being allowed to work from home some days. And even like you said, be a little bit more open about part time hours. Because I personally have seen so many of my friends, ex colleagues that have hit the childbearing age going off having babies and they're just thinking it's impossible to come back, agencies were so closed off to any kind of flexibility. Is that what you've seen?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>44:05</div><div>Yeah, over the history of my work in an industry, yes, I would say that's always been the case. And whilst I like you, I'm hoping that what's happened over the last 15 months and that more open mindedness about flexible working might mean that it doesn't happen to the next generation. But also, maybe there's&nbsp; a few people that could come back into the industry that thought they couldn't. When you've explained it like that as well. I think when you look at the the gender balance, within account handling, it's predominantly female, isn't it in most agencies as well. So it sort of enhances that problem that we've had over the years, doesn't it?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>44:54</div><div>It's such a good point. And do you think also that agencies are more flexible with age, I mean be honest, are you seeing any ageism? Because obviously, it's a young industry, isn't it? Like creativity? It's dynamic. But personally, I think, perhaps I'm giving.. you tell me first and then I'll stop ranting.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>45:16</div><div>I don't ageism is&nbsp; as big a problem as it was. I think people are far more open minded now than they were 10 to 15 years ago. I think there is more of a focus on good people who get the job done are worth the weight and gold and I think most agency owners that I speak to a far more open minded now than perhaps people were 15-20 years ago.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>45:48</div><div>I'm so glad to hear that actually. Because particularly in the current management function, if you're really super experienced account manager, you could be a huge asset. You don't have that reticence about picking up the phone to clients being a little bit more confident, opening doors. I don't know, I think it's a missed opportunity if people aren't being flexible with age.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>46:14</div><div>I think one of the other things I've noticed as well, that I'd like to see more of is, is utilising people from different types of agencies as well. In particular, if you think about people who've worked in events agencies&nbsp; have,&nbsp; they've struggled over any period of time. And the people who have been account managers in those types of agencies have got great transferable skills. If you're an integrated agency or a digital agency, why could you not utilise someone with those skills, or somebody who's perhaps focused on point of sale? Why couldn't those skills if you work with great clients, and they've managed projects, and they get things done? Why couldn't a different type of agency pick them up and very quickly bring them up to speed in, in what you as an agency deliver? Because they've got the core skills.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>47:13</div><div>I think you're spot on. I think that's great, great advice. So also, can you give any tips or guidance for candidates, maybe that are looking for the right agency for them?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>47:25</div><div>I think what you're finding at the moment, because agencies are aware of the shortage on the market, and have perhaps been looking for&nbsp; a while, the agencies are tending to, to make offers after one meeting at the moment, I think, because they're so keen to get in there. And I understand that, and&nbsp; I would encourage people to move quickly. But for from a candidate point of view, I'd always recommend going for a second meeting. You will find different things out, you will meet different people. And you'll think of more questions. So, I think rather than rushing into accepting a role,&nbsp; do your due diligence, and go through it at your speed, don't feel like you have to accept a job because it's been offered after one meeting, feel like you can ask for another one. And also, I always think anyway ask yourself, what will you learn at this agency. How will working there see your skill set develop over the next couple of years. Regardless of what money they want to pay you,&nbsp; and how they talk about&nbsp; the type of things you'd be doing and the table tennis table and the pool table and the ballpits, the beanbags. What will you learn there in the next couple of years? And I think if you can give yourself a positive answer to that question, and that you can see yourself be in two years being bigger, better, more rounded, then it's probably a good place for you. So I always think that's a good way of looking at any new role.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>49:13</div><div>Good advice. And would you suggest that they also asked to speak to, I don't know, other members of the team? Because I'm always surprised that sometimes the recruitment happens in a vacuum.&nbsp; And we certainly had a policy where I used to work that first interview was kind of a screening. But the second interview, if we thought that that was the right person, they would actually go out to lunch with the team. I went out to lunch with the team because everyone gets a say, to say, no, she's gonna fit in or I'm not sure. And actually, it makes everybody more bought into the decision.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>49:48</div><div>Yeah, I think it's good advice for agencies in terms of their process.&nbsp; Get more people involved who they'll be working with. It can just be a simple, quick coffee or a chat, but it will help your team regulate the hiring of the right people and from the candidates point of view, they'll good feel as to whether it's the type of place they want to work. So it's a win win, really, for everybody, isn't it?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>50:23</div><div>Totally agree. Anything else, any other tips for candidates?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>50:27</div><div>I think, just generally,&nbsp; salaries could be thrown at you, money could be thrown at you by certain agencies. My advice would always be don't follow the money, your criteria about where you work, and where your career goals should never ever be about money, in my opinion. Now, other people may disagree with me, and that's fine. But I would always make career decisions based on other factors. Because I believe if you're talented, and you do a good job, that you will earn good money, and you'll earn a nice living. Well, you've got to enjoy it. You've got to enjoy what you do and enjoy the people the environment you work with, otherwise, the money won't matter.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>51:15</div><div>Yeah,&nbsp; I love that philosophy. And what would those other factors be if it's not the money, what should candidates be looking for?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>51:24</div><div>I think they need to be looking for an environment where they fee their personal well being is going to be looked after, as well as their professional development. And I think if you can find somewhere where your new agency is going to really look after you in those two areas. I think you'll stay for a long time, and you'll enjoy it. You'll feel looked after in all areas as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>51:52</div><div>What kind of, I might be putting you on the spot here, but what kind of questions should a candidate be asking at interview stage to try to determine whether the agency's going to be looking after their well being?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>52:02</div><div>I think I'd be asking them do they have a policy on on well being? What's the policy on health? Do they have a mental health policy, I think is something that's growing these days that more and more agencies are having policies on mental health and personal well being. So I'd want to know what have they done so far for their people that are already there to look after their well being? What are you doing currently, that I will have access to?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>52:37</div><div>That's a killer question, actually feel that's the podcast value in gold right there so well done. How do you think, Phil, that the recruitment industry is going to be evolving over the next few years?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>52:51</div><div>The way I see it going, and there was talk last year that the recruitment industry will change, because now we're doing everything on Zoom, there was lots of talk of, well, you know, you could recruit for jobs in different countries and jobs in different areas. And I think there was people getting excited about that. Whereas I think the way it will go is is delving more into niches, and really focusing&nbsp; on the areas that you know, and that that you can add value to. And certainly that's what we're trying to do is really focusing on the types of roles and agencies we work with in the North, and really becoming that person that knows what's going on in our field, and builds deeper relationships. I think we've always tried to do that. But I think it's going to go even further, that it's going to be about relationships and knowledge. And&nbsp; that's certainly what what we're trying to do is really focused on &nbsp; building that reputation that, that as a business, we're people who are, we're not outside the industry, we're inside it, and we're part of it. And I think the things that we do like School of Thought and the Two+Two event and we run the <a href="https://creativeresource.co.uk/event/handle-this-event">Handle This</a> event for account handlers as well, which is really good and like everything we do is to really be part of the industry and not diversify, and sort of dilute what we do. I think you need to make it stronger.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>54:37</div><div>It's like Marketing 101, actually, isn't it because you've niched in an industry and you've niched in an area and you've really drilled down to, as you say, develop those long standing relationships and becoming the expert and then also you've layered upon that, events and ways of attracting a pool of new people. So I think you've got a fantastic business model there. That's a really good piece of advice for other agencies listening to this. Anything else? Because you mentioned something that I just wanted to ask you this working remotely from different countries, are you seeing that there any agencies that are being flexible with hiring people in other countries or conversely, candidates who are thinking about relocating to Spain, for example, and wanting still to work in a UK based company.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>55:29</div><div>There are one or two agencies that are open about hiring people from different countries. I think there's probably a few more that are open to hiring people within the UK in different locations. And&nbsp; just getting them into the office every few weeks when needed. Not seeing too many candidates wanting to relocate, and work remotely. But I think that might be something that might come up. And I think we have seen people relocate, say, from London to Manchester carry on working for their London agency remotely, while they find a new agency in Manchester, and that's completely new, because it was always, if you found a job in Manchester and you were working in London, you'd have to hand you notice in and relocate, and start a new job in four weeks. And so I think it's opened things up in that way definitely, we might see more people wanting to go and I don't know live in Cumbria, in the Lakes or in Cornwall, and still work for London or Manchester agency, I think agencies will probably be open to that.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>56:38</div><div>I can see this happening. I think we're at the beginning of a trend of this happening. An as you say, because of the shortage of candidates, companies having to be a little bit more flexible about this. Phil, this has been brilliant, any final pieces of advice that perhaps we haven't covered that you think would be worth sharing?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>56:56</div><div>No, the main thing I would say, though, is I'm always open to anybody who wants to reach out to me for advice, support, guidance, opinions.&nbsp; I see myself as someone who will always answer any question anybody's got,&nbsp; I'm always happy to help people. So if anybody has anything that they're struggling with, whether they be an agency that wants advice on something, or an applicant who's applying for a role and want some advice, I'll always help anybody. So people are more than welcome to get in touch.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>57:30</div><div>Oh, Phil, that's so lovely. And can you give your contact details, where's the best place to reach you?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>57:34</div><div>The best place is probably LinkedIn. I think I'm very visible. I have a very recognisable profile picture of me and the dog. And people often recognise a picture and they recognise him more than me sometimes. So if you search Phil Cookson and you'll spot me on LinkedIn, definitely the best way to get hold of me.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>57:55</div><div>Brilliant, Phil, thank you so much. This has been brilliant. And I've really enjoyed talking to you about everything to do with the recruitment industry. So thank you so much for coming.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Phil&nbsp; </strong>58:04</div><div>Thank you, Jenny. Thank you for having me. It's been brilliant. Thank you.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>58:07</div><div>Absolute pleasure.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2021 14:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/6w341298.mp3" length="61661957" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/d1ee8b70-edee-11eb-b48c-7556bc5229a0/d1ee8c80-edee-11eb-8d3a-4bc1b77f35e7.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3082</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 41. In this episode, Phil Cookson and I talk about the current trends in the creative agency recruitment space. 

We talk about why agencies are struggling to hire right now, what they need to do differently to attract the right people, how the market is evolving. 

And there are also some tips for you if you are currently looking for a role and you want to find the right agency. I hope you enjoy this chat with Phil. I certainly did. 

A quick reminder that my next Account Accelerator Programme is starting on September 23rd 2021. This programme is all about building confidence for account managers. It's designed to take you from unpredictable project revenue to more predictable account growth. #

You can find more details on my website at accountmanagementskills.com/training or get in touch on LinkedIn Jenny Plant, or pop me an email jenny@accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 41. In this episode, Phil Cookson and I talk about the current trends in the creative agency recruitment space. 

We talk about why agencies are struggling to hire right now, what they need to do differently to attract the right people, how the market is evolving. 

And there are also some tips for you if you are currently looking for a role and you want to find the right agency. I hope you enjoy this chat with Phil. I certainly did. 

A quick reminder that my next Account Accelerator Programme is starting on September 23rd 2021. This programme is all about building confidence for account managers. It's designed to take you from unpredictable project revenue to more predictable account growth. #

You can find more details on my website at accountmanagementskills.com/training or get in touch on LinkedIn Jenny Plant, or pop me an email jenny@accountmanagementskills.com</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What the fandom formula means for creators,  brands and agencies, with Zoe Scaman</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/68rl7zm8</link>
      <itunes:title>What the fandom formula means for creators,  brands and agencies, with Zoe Scaman</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>40</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">8058r4y1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 40. For this week's podcast, I was delighted to speak to Zoe Scaman. We talked about the creator economy and fandoms;  why the traditional agency business model is under threat, and we talked about her recent article called Mad Men Furious Women, in which she talks about misogyny in the ad industry. 
 
I hope you enjoy this episode with Zoe and come away as inspired as I was. If you're not already doing so, I'd highly recommend you follow Zoe on Twitter @zoescaman.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Useful Resources:<br></strong><br></div><div><a href="https://zoescaman.substack.com/">Zoe's Substack "Musings of a wandering mind" </a>where you can read all her latest posts on fandoms and her piece on misogyny in the ad industry "Mad Men Furious Women".<br><br></div><div>Coverage of Zoe's misogyny article:<br><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jul/15/advertising-sector-has-metoo-moment-as-blog-sparks-womens-anger">The Guardian</a><br><a href="https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/advertising-metoo-zoe-scaman-policy-change-b1884590.html">The Independent<br></a><br></div><div>YouTuber (mentioned during the podcast): <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd7Sf-HvhwirCnBpADqAr5A">Xanadu</a><br>LinkedIn profile for YouTuber Cory Strassburger: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/corystrassburger/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/corystrassburger/<br></a><br></div><div><br><strong>Transcript:<br><br>Transcript:<br></strong><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>00:03<br><br></div><div>So today's guest, I'm a huge fan of, her name is Zoe Scaman. She's the founder of Bodacious, a strategy studio that creates dynamic and culturally compelling brands. She's one of the most brightest strategic minds in the creative industry, and has a huge following on Twitter, where she generously shares her thoughts, observations and predictions about the ever evolving world of fandoms. She started her career as an account manager in an ad agency, which I find fascinating, moved quickly into strategy and then management consultancy. She's worked for many agencies, including Naked, Droga5 and with brands such as Adidas, Nike and Coca Cola. Before setting up Bodacious she was Global Head of strategy for Ridley Scott Creative Group. And my level of adoration for Zoe has just gone up a few notches because she's written a magnificent piece and a very moving piece on her Substack recently called Mad Men, Furious Women, all about misogyny in the ad industry. It's literally exploded. She's appeared in The Guardian, Campaign, Adweek and the Times Radio. And we will talk a little bit about that later. But Zoe welcome!<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Zoe&nbsp; </strong>01:13<br><br></div><div>Thank you very much for having me.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>01:15<br><br></div><div>Would you mind spending a few minutes talking about your career journey, particularly why you moved out of account management? And how different is working with your clients now at Bodacious versus during your time in agencies?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Zoe&nbsp; </strong>01:30<br><br></div><div>Sure, I mean, it's a long rambling journey. So I'll try and make it as succinct as possible. I started out accidentally in advertising when I was 18. So I basically went and did six months in Greece, didn't sit my A level exams, because I was going through a rebellious patch, came back, realised I couldn't go to university without the A levels and so I was like right, I need to find a job somehow. And back then you still found jobs in papers. So I went into a local paper, and I found a job. And it just said "bright enthusiastic person wanted for a startup". And it was right place right time, to be honest. So it was in Guildford in Surrey. It was a small agency that specialised in pay per click, so sort of search marketing. My first client was a pornography website, which was very interesting, because my job was to source keywords and write ads. So I learned a lot about all the different factions of pornography that were very popular! But they also had created a software which at the time was groundbreaking. So you could actually track what people did on your website after they clicked on a Google link. So that might seem really provincial now but at the time, it was a really big deal. And what that allowed me to do was to travel up to London, and basically sell this software to the bigger agencies and wear different hats while I was with them. And suddenly my eyes were just opened to this huge world, that to be totally honest, I had absolutely no idea even existed. And I was walking into agencies like Walker Media and seeing Christine Walker, who was just terrifying and formidable and incredible, and her table of women and they're all smoking in the office at that stage, and I was like, wow, I want to be like them when I grow up! So I then moved to London, got a job in an agency there, moved into kind of account management within digital advertising, which was still relatively new at the time. Then I left there and moved to Australia, where I went to Media Comm, still account management. So I was an account director at that stage, super young, probably way too young to be an account director, and leading a team. But that was kind of soon bought crashing down to earth when I realised that I was completely incapable of doing it. So then I moved into strategy. Then I moved into Australia's first social media agency, which was a little bit before its time and we went bankrupt after nine months, but it's an amazing journey. And then I ended up at Naked, which is where I really cut my teeth in understanding strategy and really getting under the table (?) of that. And I worked on Coca Cola for two years across Australia and New Zealand, we did Share a Coke which was the names on cans that originated from there, and then went up to 72 countries worldwide, which was incredible. And then I moved on to a number of different agencies. I went to Universal McCann, I moved back to London, I went to Glue and ran Kellogg's digital globally as well. Then I moved into kind of management consultancy, so I wanted to go more into the nuts and bolts in terms of how a business operated, where we were getting into barriers when it comes to socialising and sharing ideas internally. So I went to an agency or not really an agency, a consultancy called London Strategy Unit. And my first job was with Adidas. So I basically moved to Nuremberg in Bavaria, which was interesting, middle of nowhere for a few months, and rewrote, Adidas's global marketing planning process, which was just fascinating. Because for the first time, I was firmly on the other side of the table. And I was really understanding how different functions within the business communicated, how they operated, how they interacted, how the agency relationship came to be. And I realised actually how little the agencies really mattered in the grand scheme of things. It was like 5% of the brain power that the clients were thinking about the vast majority of the time, the rest of what they had to concentrate on and what they had to juggle was just vast and I think really understanding that helped me. I then moved to New York for a bit. And I went into a management consultancy there called Undercurrent because I really wanted to be at the forefront of where that space was going. So I worked with Al Gore's Climate Reality Project to work with PepsiCo and American Express, which was fascinating. Then I moved back, I did more client side work with Adidas. And then I fell into Droga5. And I'd been freelancing with Droga5 before but this was kind of more falling into it in a more full time capacity. But due to my nature, I then kind of got itchy feet. And I was like, right, I'm going to Ethiopia. And so I basically got a job doing an international development project in Ethiopia with Nike Foundation, I'd never done any of that kind of stuff before. I was a complete fool. So I was like, I've googled Ethiopia, I get it, it's fine. And I landed in Addis Ababa in the middle of a tribal warfare, national emergency with UN peacekeepers, and all this kind of stuff. And I was like, Oh, my God! What have I done? And the internet was turned off, and I couldn't get hold of my parents. And you know, we had to have safety protocols and bodyguards and all this kind of stuff. And it was just fascinating, because I think it was probably one of the most humbling experiences of my life. Because at that stage, I'd done very, very well, in my career, I was flying, I was quite cocky, to be honest. And I thought I knew everything and landing in a country like that, in that context, where all of the rules that you have learned so far in the Western world do not apply. That is not how they do business. That's not how you're going to get traction, you have to basically swallow the fact that you have no idea what you're doing. You have to get comfortable with learning and relearning all over again. And you've got to figure out a new path forward, where all of your old tricks of the trade and all of your old knowledge about how to communicate and get work done is just gone. So that was amazing. And I'm so glad that I did it at that point in my career, because I needed to be kind of knocked off my perch a little bit I think. Then I came back to Droga, stayed there for a while, totally burnt out. And then I left and kind of went back to freelancing a little bit until I started actually, kind of I think I can level this up. So I wanted to start my own thing, my own consultancy with Bodacious. So I launched it and started looking for bigger projects. Then I got headhunted by Ridley Scott, which was surprising because I was like, why do you want to hire me? I've never worked in entertainment before. And I was his Global Head of Strategy. And I agreed that I would do that about 50/50. So I'd keep Bodacious and do that 50% of the time. In reality, it was more 70/30, 80/20, obviously more towards Ridley. But it was a fascinating experience. And I got exposed to, again, a totally different world, but I had no idea about any of it. Most of the time, I'd be sitting in a meeting and it would be like listening to another language in terms of what they were talking about. But that learning curve was fascinating. I got exposed to some incredible people who I'm still connected to now. And it really started to broaden my horizons when it came to the landscape of entertainment, the future of entertainment, which then led me into kind of fandoms and the metaverse. Then I obviously pulled in the brand strategy element that I'd had previously. And that really started to shape the direction that I am in now and really started to kind of push me down a particular path, which I think I'm now kind of consolidating.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>08:20<br><br></div><div>Wow, I mean, that that is a hell of a journey, isn't it? As well, I'm just like, my jaw is just dropping as you were just explaining that. I mean, as you said, it must be hugely mind expanding to have experienced so much. And I'm just curious now, how do you end up working with clients who you can offer all of these facets to? Because like you said, when you started working in management consultancy, you realised that what an agency actually does is a small part of that, but having the bigger picture as well. So how do you attract your type of client that you want to work with at Bodacious now?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Zoe&nbsp; </strong>08:57<br><br></div><div>The type of client that normally comes to me are the ones that have got really complex questions and no clear solutions. And so because they don't really know what the solution might be, they don't know who to hire. So they can't necessarily say this is an advertising brief, or they can't necessarily say this is a CRM brief, or this is a television production brief, or something around that or this is a management consultancy brief because they just don't know. And that's where I come in. Which is, I almost kind of fit at the top with those sort of complex problems. And mostly, the problems, they come to me with just one sentence. And I can then look at it and stick with it and figure it out and kind of dive into all of the different areas around it. And then I can figure out where that needs to go next. So it might be an advertising brief, it might be that they need to start thinking about building entertainment properties. It might be that they've got their audience wrong, it might be that they need to go into new product development, it might be that the distribution strategy is wrong that they need to move into a new category. But I think that having the ability to be a bit of a Swiss Army Knife and be able to consult on all of those different levels is starting to become a skill that's more and more in demand. I call it just being a generalist. But I think a lot of people assume that a generalist is a kind of negative connotations, so it's like a jack of all trades. But obviously, the jack of all trades quote is actually a lot misunderstood. So people think it's a jack of all trades, master of none. And we forget the last piece, which is 'oftentimes better than a master of one'. And I think that really resonates with me. And so the vast majority of them, as I said, they come to me because I can look at it holistically and be like, right, I think it might be a little bit of an advertising brief. But I also think you need to look at category expansion, but I also think you need to sort packaging out. But I also think you need to start thinking about gaming development or something around that. And that tends to be where they come from.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>10:52<br><br></div><div>Amazing. You can you've got the ability to see the bigger picture, and then presumably, pull in the elements that they need later down the track once you've kind of sorted out the problem. So yeah, is that true?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Zoe&nbsp; </strong>11:04<br><br></div><div>Yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of the time as well, I will find myself in a sphere or an area where I also don't know enough about the area. And so it's brilliant for me, because I just keep learning. And I'm very open with clients that I'm not a specialist in every single one of these areas. And so I will bring specialists in to help consult on that stuff. But I also think the clients are quite open minded to the fact that there's a certain subset of things that I have no clue about, and we can learn together. And they're not scared of hiring someone that is a generalist that doesn't necessarily have deep, deep, skills or knowledge in any particular area.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>11:43<br><br></div><div>So obviously, you've talked a lot about the evolving creative economy and fandoms. I know you recently wrote a huge piece on this. And you've actually come up with a formula for fandoms. Is that because you were asked so many times, what is the fandom?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Zoe&nbsp; </strong>11:57<br><br></div><div>It is, and it's also because I think I was confusing people. So I started talking about fandoms, probably about two years ago. Then I started talking about gaming. And then I started talking about the metaverse and then I started with my cryptocurrency and especially with the cryptocurrency people were just like, 'What are you talking about? Why are you talking about blockchain? And why are you talking about currencies in this sense? It doesn't make any, there's no link?' And I was like, actually there is. It's all linked together. The creation economy is linked with fandoms, is linked with new entertainment models, is linked with blockchain. And everyone's like, no, don't see it, don't see it. You're completely off your rocker, you don't really understand what you're talking about. I was like, right, okay. I need to pull all of this together into some sort of thesis that shows people how I'm thinking and why I think it's woven together in this area. And so that's where it came from. Because I think I'd been banging on about so many bits and pieces that looked like disparate fragments. But to me, they were all perfectly glued into one central thesis and one central mega trend. And people were just not following along, probably because I was kind of static running all the time. And they didn't really see the links, and they didn't have the time to sit with it in the way that I did. So I just wanted to put something out into the world that showed them the picture that I was seeing.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>13:14<br><br></div><div>Can you give us an example where it fits together that would highlight how simple it is? Or conversely, can you talk to us about that actual formula? Would that, to simplify it so that people can get, I know that you've written a huge piece on this? But is there a way to summarise it so that people can understand it in a really simplistic form?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Zoe&nbsp; </strong>13:40<br><br></div><div>Sure. So I mean,<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>when we talk about fandoms, a lot of people think about screaming teenage girls, like Beatlemania, One Direction, maybe even think about Trekkies from Star Trek, or Star Wars fans or Comic Con or something like that. Fandoms have been around for decades and decades and decades. But what we're seeing now is an unleashing of them in a way that they are becoming a dominant, basically force within culture, within commerce, and they're starting to actually drive huge trends in terms of entertainment in terms of brands in terms of spending power, in terms of creativity. And I was looking at, how do I summarise this and a formula that kind of makes sense. And the formula that I've got is: Community times Autonomy times Equity.&nbsp;<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>So the community piece, the deep dive in there is, we are coming up with new platforms. So beyond social, so beyond kind of Facebook and Instagram and that kind of stuff. There are new platforms emerging that are all built for vertical niches. So the more kind of niche and weird your interest is, the more these platforms are catering to you so you can really find your tribe. And the interesting thing about that is the shift towards interest networks. So social networks like Facebook and Instagram, normally, when you first set up your Facebook profile, you would be friending people that you actually knew in real life. So you might friend Like the person that you went to school with 10 years ago, or you might friend your aunt, or you might friend your hairdresser or something like that. But it was people that you knew. The problem with that is that you might know them in real life, but you actually might not share any interest with them. So your aunt might be going off on a kind of a right wing nutcase job on Facebook talking about conspiracy theories, your hairdresser could be talking about a boat that she's doing up or something, but it's not necessarily your interest area. But now what we're seeing is interest networks. So TikTok is an interest network. So you can go on to TikTok and you can set up a profile, and you don't have to follow or friend anybody. What will happen is the 'for you page', your homepage, will just start to serve you content. And the algorithm that sits behind it will just learn very, very quickly the type of content that you react to depending on how long you spend with the video, how fast you swipe past it, if you follow that person after you've seen the video, that kind of stuff. And the algorithm starts to then serve you more and more content based on what you like. And then before you know it, you found yourself in some sort of deep TikTok cults or tribe, which is all around the niches that you love. And that nicheness is becoming more and more popular not just on TikTok but also on platforms like Discord and all that kind of stuff. I mean, you can go on Discord, which was set up for gamers to be able to communicate while they were gaming with World of Warcraft or Call of Duty and now you can find a channel all about reptile lovers, or knitting patterns or something like that. It's insane. So I think the fact that we're bringing together these niches and these tribes, and they're becoming more and more vibrant little communities, because they're so passionate about whatever it is that they're putting up on a pedestal. it's really, really interesting. And those platforms, as I said, we didn't have them before. And now we do so about unlocking and connecting these niches like never before, then the second part of the equation is autonomy. And the autonomy side of things is about allowing fans and allowing people who are passionate about a certain intellectual property like Marvel, for example, or music or something like that to actually create alongside the artist or alongside the IP, so they can kind of spin out their own ideas. And previously, we've had this to a certain extent, we've always had fan fiction, we've always had kind of fan stories or kind of fan spin offs, but we've never taken it seriously. It's always lived in the depths of like Reddit or something, or a deep fan forum. You know, there's there's been stories for Star Trek for ages, for example, about Spock and Captain Kirk falling in love, and getting married, and all those kinds of things. But the problem was that what the studios did is if they gained any traction with those fanfictions, the studios would send them a cease and desist letter. And fanfiction for them was fun until it got out of hand, and they didn't want it to kind of become mainstream. But now what we're seeing is it is becoming mainstream. And again,<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>these new platforms that are coming out, are enabling fan fiction, fan created songs, fan created art, fan created merchandise, to rise almost to the level of official in some capacity, which is just fascinating. And that is unleashing a new form of creativity that we've never seen before. And now what's happening is some brands who are very smart, are waking up to this, and they're actually encouraging the fans to create ideas from their existing intellectual property that they then might turn into movies and comic books and merge lines. And Lego is one of them. So Lego realised that there's lots and lots of fanfiction going on around their characters. And they were finding it on amateur Publishing platforms. And they were like, this is amazing. But we don't own this. And we can't do anything with it. If it's disparate, and it's all across these different platforms. So they've set up a platform called Lego World Builder, where they're encouraging fans to write stories to write screenplays to do designs. And then they're allowing the community within Lego World Builder to up vote or to endorse the stories that they love. And they're doing that because what they want to do is they want to use the fans in order to be able to create new ideas, new movies, new Lego sets, new worlds, and they're giving the fans who create those a share in the equity as well. So it's only been around for about six months, but they've already got two projects out of the back of it. So one of them is a short film around Ninjago. So Ninjago is a kind of ninja Lego character. And a fan wrote a short screenplay for Ninjago. And they're turning it into a production. They also had a challenge around world building, so a whole universe, for example. And somebody came up with a universe called Holiday Heroes, which is basically a little planet where all of our holiday icons live, like the Easter Bunny, and the leprechaun from St. Paddy's Day, and Santa Claus, and all this kind of stuff, and they all live together. And they're actually turning that into a new Lego set. And that then could become a movie franchise, and it could become a comic book and it could become a merch line.&nbsp;<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>And so they're starting to realise that fans are not just there to passively consume the centralised control stories that we put out there, but they are also a font of new creativity and new ideas, and we should be finding ways to tap that and unleash it in some capacity. So that's the kind of secondary piece of the formula. And then the final piece of the formula is equity. So equity basically means we really should be paying fans if they're coming up with this stuff. We can't just do it for free and then we make loads of money off the back of their ideas and their IP. And fans are starting to wake up to this as well, because what's happening with the creator of the economy, so you know, the Youtubers, the TikTokers, is that kind of stuff, during the pandemic, they started pioneering ways to pay fans back to their attention. So if you're on Patreon, for example, and you're a YouTuber, and I'm a fan, I might pay a certain access tier, which means that I get, I'm in a whatsapp group with my creative that I love. And they WhatsApp me once a week, and I pay $100 for it or something like that. But then that patronage needs to be repaid in other ways. And maybe as a result of that, I get exclusive access to much that nobody else gets, or maybe I get a share of the royalties of the song that they're creating, because I've given feedback in a closed group as to where I think the chorus should go, or something like that. And so what's happening is we're seeing the blurring of the lines between the artist and the creator and the fan, in terms of their input, but also their terms of being able to share in the financial upside as well. Because when you're a fan, say you're a teenage girl, and you're a One Direction fan, you get a warm, fuzzy feeling from advocating for that band and their music. And when you see them do well, you feel good, because you're a fan. But what if you could also turn that advocacy for the band into money? So if I had bought a token or a share, for example, in One Direction when they first came out, because I love them so much but I also believe in their power to be able to explode all over the planet, then when their success increases, and when their popularity increases and their financial value increases, so does the value of the share that I've bought. And that's what we're starting to see more and more. And that's where the crypto side of things comes in. Because we've never really had the ability to provide tokens or currencies to fans that are fully transparent in terms of their value and their upside, but also their ability to automatically do kickbacks and pay back like dividends and all that kind of stuff. We've just never had it. And now what we're seeing is we're seeing new platforms built on top of the blockchain, for this purpose so they're creating creator currencies, fan tokens. You know, there's one company called Socios, which is a fan token company, and they are reinventing sports. So now, Juventus, Man City, Real Madrid, all of those football clubs around the world are working with Socios to create fan tokens. So fans can actually buy into the club. And at the moment, it's quite basic in terms of what those tokens buy you. So they buy you like an equity share of some kind. But they also buy you, depending on how many tokens you hold, voting rights. So you know, if you're holding a certain amount of tokens, amongst other fans, you can vote for the song that the team is going to walk onto the pitch to. You can vote how they decorate their tour bus, you can vote on the next jerseys they bring out, for example for the match. And so that's kind of quite basic, but it's only because they're so new, and they're still testing the waters. So it transforms you from fan to owner or fan to investor. And you can also start to govern and make choices. And be that as I said, it could be music could be football related, could be choices in terms of a movie that someone's making, and what the ending is, or if they're multiple endings, could be game development, there's so much potential to it. And again, we have never had these tools before. And that's why it's kind of unlocking it. So when you start to kind of dive into community, as I mentioned, it's all about niches coming together really passionate groups of people that have never been able to find each other before, then you've got autonomy. So they're also able to create, they're able to come up with their own ideas, but also to push those are their own ideas into kind of mainstream acceptance. And then you've got equities, so the ability to actually reward them and help them share in the upside of whatever it is that they create, whether they actually be developing something or they're just advocating for you as well. So when you tie those three pieces together, you start to see that the way that fandom is shifting and unleashing is going to mean an entirely new landscape for brands, for creators, for IP, for games, for movies, for music, for everything. And that's why he's got me so excited about this space.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>24:16<br><br></div><div>Wow, I can see why you're so excited. It feels like the future Zoe doesn't it?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Zoe&nbsp; </strong>24:20<br><br></div><div>Yes.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>24:21<br><br></div><div>And I suppose as you said, we're at the very beginning of this. Are there, what do you see as the barriers to some companies currently kind of adopting this way of thinking?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Zoe&nbsp; </strong>24:34<br><br></div><div>So many barriers, so many. The first and probably most common barrier is fear of loss of control. We have got to such a way of thinking within brands, within entertainment, that it's all about quality control and quality control can only happen if you centralise it and if you hold on really, really tight and you perfect all of the edges and nobody messes about with your IP. And to a certain extent, that is true. So you know, when you're looking at movies like Marvel, the quality of those movies is just increasing and increasing and increasing because the core team behind them are getting into a rhythm. And that's why, every Marvel series that's been released on Disney Plus has been better than the one that came before. So that's true. But you also need to open up this idea of decentralising your IP and kind of letting go of your IP to a certain extent as well. And you don't need to do it in terms of you're never going to have well, you might I'm not going to say never, never, but you're never going to have fans creating a gigantic Hollywood blockbuster together. They're probably not going to get to that stage because they don't have the expertise. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they can't come up with interesting stories or tangents or creations that could then in some capacity feed into what it is that you do next. Or small side projects that you might explore, because it gives fans the ability to feel like they're more sticky within that particular universe or that realm because they feel like they've got the ability to create and to share. But also, creativity, I think, as we're learning, can come from everywhere. And when we first had social media talking about, crowdsourcing and that kind of stuff, we got into a way of thinking that we were just like, right, you know, people can create stuff, that's fine, but most of its going to be shit. And it was, because they didn't have the tools. But now look at what happens when you put just a really simplistic tool like TikTok into the hands of the public, and the creativity and the new trends and the ideas and the means and the cultural currency that has been birthed from allowing the general public to have their own tools for creativity and development. And the cream always rises to the top. So we're not saying that everybody has the capacity to do this. But we're saying it's so much more democratised and decentralised than you had previously imagined. So that idea of giving over a percentage of control, or letting fans play around with your IP and reimagine it in their own lens is terrifying for the vast majority of businesses, because they just don't know how to handle those conversations. And IP, you know, is surrounded by legal parameters and copyrights and all that kind of stuff as well. And they've got to be careful on that front. But there are possibilities. As I mentioned, with Lego world builder, you can do it if you open it up. But I think a lot of clients are just assuming that the quality is going to be really bad that it's not worth the hassle. And they don't really understand what they would do if they did open up their IP as well. So that kind of scares the crap out of them. I think the equity piece also terrifies them. So this idea of moving into kind of blockchain and cryptocurrency and fan tokens, and they don't really know where to start. So the vast majority of clients that come to me say I want to get into gaming, or I want to get into crypto. But gaming is huge and multifaceted. And so is crypto and so it's not just about getting into the space or getting into the technology, it's thinking about what role do we play within that space? And what role do we create for our consumers in that space as well. So I think a lot of it is uncertainty, it's uncomfortable. They feel like it's almost too futuristic. But then they're also worried about being left behind. And the pace of change is terrifying. And they also don't have the skill sets necessarily in house to be able to do this. There's very, very few people, clients that understand cryptocurrency and blockchain. There's very, very few people that understand gaming unless they're actually in a gaming studio themselves. And so that is probably the biggest barriers is lack of knowledge. And that lack of knowledge leads to a kind of head in the sand mentality. And also just clinging on to the way we've always done things because that feels like it's manageable and it feels like it's less overwhelming than trying to face this kind of barrage of new. And it's constantly coming out and trying to wrap their heads around it.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>28:37<br><br></div><div>Yeah, lots of reasons there. And I saw that recently, you shared a guy who's kind of emerging as a really interesting YouTuber who's created his own metaverse. You shared the example, I watched the video and I just thought I could not believe the quality of the production that he put together. And everyone, I read all the comments saying, this is just going to be huge. So it's almost like individuals now with the tools that are at their disposal are becoming a little bit threatening for bigger organisations that have spent, I don't know, months or years putting productions together. Do you think?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Zoe&nbsp; </strong>29:19<br><br></div><div>100%. Yes, so the guy that you're mentioning is Cory Strassburger. And Cory is an animation artist but also your works with Unreal Engine and that kind of stuff as well, which is from Epic who make Fortnight and he's created a character called Blue and Blue lives in Xanadu, which you would have seen from the YouTube, but he created all of that, every single aspect of that episode was created by one person, which is just insane because it's almost like Hollywood level production, and storytelling. And what's so fascinating is that world that he's created, that could turn into a movie franchise, it could turn into gaming, it could turn into a merch line. It could turn, he could actually birth fictional brands within that universe that then become real brands in the real world, it is just gigantic. And you know, I think<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>18 months ago, maybe a little bit more, I said on Twitter, creators will be the new brands. And I got absolutely annihilated for saying that. That I was an idiot, that I didn't understand the space, that there's no way that creators could ever rival brands that, brands had huge supply chains and infrastructure and all this kind of stuff. And I am looking at it now 18 months later, and I was like, I was right. And that's what's going to happen, because Cory can then turn Xanadu, as I said, into an entire world with the tools that he now has at his disposal, if he wants to create a merch line. So you know, hoodies, t shirts, all this kind of stuff, he can use a contact in China, and then he can do drop shipping. So he doesn't actually have to have a factory or a warehouse or anything, it just all gets automatically made online. Drop shipping has completely changed the merch landscape. That's why new Teespring is huge in that space. They've partnered with TikTok to allow all the TikTok creators to create their own merch lines. So they can actually rival the supply chains of the big brands, but they don't actually have to know what they're doing. They just have to press a couple of buttons and it's done. And it goes out to their fans.&nbsp;<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>And then I'm also saying, let's talk about teenagers. Teenagers have only got a certain amount of disposable income. And if they're going to buy three hoodies in the course of three months for example, and one of those hoodies is Xanadu and Blu and Corey, and another one is Addison Rae on TikTok, that only leaves one hoodie left for them to buy a brand. And so the actual power and the influence of the brands is shrinking, while the power and the influence of the creators is rapidly increasing. And also, these people are closer to us because we feel like we've got some sort of parasocial relationship with them. We get to know them. They're not faceless, like an Adidas or something like that. They're actually a real person. And so we feel like we've got a vested interest in supporting them. They feel like we know them in some way. And that parasocial relationship is incredibly powerful in terms of what it can actually then burst with fandoms and products spin offs. You've got YouTubers and TikTokers making coffee brands. There's too young TikTokers, I forget their names now, but between them, they've got like 20 million, 30 million followers. Red Bull approached them and said, 'We would love for you to sponsor Red Bull'. And the kids, like they're 19 and 20, turn around and they were like, 'Oh, that's a great idea, we'll just create our own energy drink'. And so they did. And so now, you know, they've got an energy drink with a distribution network of 30,000 teenagers, and they can rival you know, Red Bull. So Red Bull can no longer just basically rent them as a distribution network. Instead, they have the capability of building their own brands from scratch. There's a company called Piatra, who just got $15 million worth of funding last week. And Pietra is designed specifically to allow creators to easily make their own products, and then send them on to their fans as well. So all of these tools and infrastructures and supply chains and manufacturing, we have never had this capability before. But now, if I'm a creator, and I've never made a product in my entire life, I can press a couple of buttons on Piatra, I put a link in my TikTok profile, and voila, I'm a brand.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>33:12<br><br></div><div>It really is an exciting time. Funnily enough, a few years ago, I was teaching the private label model for a few years where you can reverse engineer what's selling on Amazon. Work out how to change the product to make it more appealing to the customer and then go and source the product from a manufacturer as a private label brand. And then you put your own brand on it create your own brand. And you can sell it back on the on the Amazon platform. So funnily enough, I was teaching that for a while. So this is like everything's coming together, isn't it? And it feels like a long time coming for the creator. Because it wasn't that many years ago that suddenly all of their music was being downloaded for free. And then they had to start gigging, didn't they, to actually earn money? So it feels like it's the rise of the creator, as you say, the rise of the creator economy. So how does the traditional agency fit currently Zoe? I mean, it sounds like this is a massive movement, it's obviously going to evolve and change and grow. Do you have any examples of agencies that are helping their clients navigate this? Or how do you think the agency model is faring in this quickly changing world?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Zoe&nbsp; </strong>34:28<br><br></div><div>I think it's terrifying. For them, I would be terrified. Because the way that the vast majority of business models are set up, doesn't work in this space. It's too expensive. It's too slow. It's too heavy in terms of overheads. And it's like tunimg around an oil tanker. And that's incredibly challenging. I'm not saying that's all agency, some agencies are a bit more nimble, and they can figure out this space. But the vast majority of agencies are incentivized to continue to feed the conveyor belt and the sausage factory that they've set up, which means, big long kind of pitch processes, there's very few retainers these days so you actually can't really track your cash flow, in terms of knowing that a client's going to be with you for a year or two years or something like that, because most of the projects are project based. And so you pitch and you put all of this effort and energy, which is normally free, into getting a client who's only going to be a project, then you throw a big team against it, and you over inflate the prices of the team because you have to, because there's no other way to try and make that money back. And then they all work quite slowly, that's what happens when you've got lots and lots of people trying to work together in an agency field. So you're less nimble. Then you create a kind of more traditional ad product, so be that film or something like that, which you then put out into the world. And given the speed of culture, it's forgotten in 24, or 48 hours. And I'm not saying that doesn't necessarily work in some cases. People do, obviously, still watch television. If you make a 32 second ad, and you can chuck it on television, over the course of six months, that's still going to work to a certain extent on brand building, but it's not going to get you the kind of cultural aspects that you need, it's not going to help you really build relationships with creators, it's not going to help you explore fandoms, it's not going to help you explore new business models and they just don't have these capabilities in house right now. And so I think they need to build those pretty quickly if they can. I'm not convinced that the vast majority of them actually can, I think it's too late. And you just have to look at the market caps of the big agency groups, which are shrinking, and it just shows you potentially where it's going to go to next. I think what could be quite exciting is the renaissance around Indie shops. So a lot of people are leaving agencies, there was a piece in Ad Age, I think that was published two weeks ago, it was more US centric, but I think it's applicable globally, basically saying that people are leaving that advertising agency jobs in droves after the pandemic, because they're first of all, like, fuck this, I'm exhausted, I've been getting paid absolutely nothing, what do I actually do this for? It's just an ad, I'm not saving lives here. And the the culture of overwork, is just relentless. So I think a lot of them are going right, after the pandemic, I need to look at my life again, and really think about what it is that I want here and how I want to be, and then leaving. And with that loss of talent, what we're going to see is we're going to see the freelance market explode, we're going to see little pods of people start to gravitate towards each other and little collectives, we're going to see the birth of lots of new smaller shops and smaller agencies. And I think that's really exciting, because I actually think that there's going to be new forms of creativity born off the back of that. And for me, personally, I love this idea of a kind of Avengers Assemble model, where you bring together the right partners and the right collectors for the right projects, you work together for a period of time, you get that project done, and then you disband. And it gives you so much more flexibility in terms of&nbsp; squaring up talent, in terms of working with lots of interesting people, the ability to learn as you go, actually being connected to partners that maybe you've not done anything in that sphere that area before. And I think that, for me feels much more exciting. But I think the bigger agencies, the ones that are quote, unquote, more established, and it's going to be a really, really rocky period for them.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>38:04<br><br></div><div>I think you're absolutely right. Because also, during this period, a lot of people have worked from home. And I suppose they've thought, well, I can do this all from home, I've got my client, and I'm doing everything. It's not like, hey, what do I need? And I think that's probably some agency owners and the management, senior management are kind of threatened by that, probably. But I think I think you're right. Let's talk a bit about the agency culture as well, because I don't want to leave this interview without kind of touching on the the article that you wrote a while ago. And personally, I felt very triggered by it. Because with a few of your own examples, I resonated with it. So do you mind sort of talking about why you wrote that piece about misogony in the in the ad industry?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Zoe&nbsp; </strong>38:50<br><br></div><div>So I was having a coffee with a female strategist over from New York, and we've not met before, and we were just having a bit of a chat. And we were very, very quickly into this space of warning each other about who to work with, who not to work with, where was slightly safer, where was not. We were sharing some horror stories. And then we kind of woke up to that fact. And we were just oh my god, this is not normal. Like, why are we having this conversation? Why are we now, as women in our mid 30s, warning each other about how to stay safe in a workplace and who to avoid. This is insane. And then we started talking about just how deep rooted sexism and misogyny is in the culture and the business. And that post Me too, we didn't think that that much had changed. We felt like there was less overt sexual kind of harassment and that kind of stuff, because you knew that you couldn't get away with it. But that didn't mean that it had gone anywhere. It just meant that it was kind of buried and coming out in other facets. And we basically said something needs to be written about this. And so I went home and I started writing and I went on to Twitter. And I said, Look, I'm going to write this piece. If anybody wants to share their stories with me, please do so, you can be anonymous if you like. But I do think that using the stories brings it to life, so much more so than just stats and a kind of more generic piece. And I was absolutely inundated. And the stories that you see in the piece are about 10% of what I actually got. And then obviously, once I published it, it just exploded. So I think now I'm sitting on like, 700 stories roughly, and they're all around the world. They're Australia, Germany, they're France, they're the Philippines. They're Hong Kong, they're North America, absolutely everywhere. And it's just happening all the time. And again, a lot of people think that, that's advertising in the 80s and 90s, or it's the Mad Men era and that can't possibly happen anymore. But the vast majority of the stories that I got happened in the last few years. And you know, some of them actually happened last year, for example, like some horrific stories, but in the middle of the pandemic as well, which is crazy. And I think we just need to open up that conversation again, and realise that we are not done and dusted. And after the last #Metoo movement, some symbolic heads rolled, which was fine, but the management teams that enabled them and protected them did not, and they are still in place. And so we did what we had to do to get rid of that spotlight. And we did some lovely pledges. And we talked about #feminism, and time's up, and all this kind of stuff, we didn't do anything, there was no policy change. And so that behaviour is still very much happening. And I wanted to shine a gigantic floodlight on the fact that we may think that we're progressive and liberal and innovative and #diversity and Black Lives Matter and all of that kind of stuff. But it is just lipstick on a pig. And we need to do so much better when it comes to real policy change with teeth. But we're very, very good at over communication. We're very, very good at lovely words. We're very good at pledges, we're very good at codes of conduct, but we don't enforce any of that in a way that matters.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>41:57<br><br></div><div>And you've become an accidental hero, haven't you? Because I mean, I think like myself, so many women just feel so, finally, someone's actually making this public. And, I know that the likes of Cindy Gallup have talked about it in the past, but it just feels like it's fresh again. And personally, when I read that article, things like that were happening in the early 90s. And I was absolutely shocked to see that it was still happening. So I know a number of people feel furious. But what actually can people do now? I know that you've said that several things need to change. But obviously, you're not, you don't particularly want to be the one leading this charge, do you?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Zoe&nbsp; </strong>42:39<br><br></div><div>Not really. It's not that I don't want to. It's that I can't. I don't work in HR, I don't work in law. I'm not a professional DNI person. I don't work in lobbying or anything like that. What I saw my role as is the ability to write in such a way that I let them match. And just as you said, this work has been going on for years and years and years, way before I came along. The likes of Cindy, as you mentioned, she's been fighting this fight for decades arguably. Kat Gordon, from the 3% conference, there's so many other women who have been pushing in the right direction for change. And the difficulty is that, again, because of the speed of culture, because of the cyclical nature of the way that advertising culture works, is we get really excited, really outraged for like two days, and then we just forget, and we drop the ball and nothing happens. And that happened with the first Meteor movement, happened with Black Lives Matter, it's probably going to happen with my piece as well. And so, I think what we need to keep doing is we need to keep lighting those matches. And so that was all I did, is just light another one. And we need to keep doing that to make sure that the energy and the focus is remaining on this space. But we also need to support the programmes and the incentives that are already happening. And you know, when we first had the 3% conference, there was a big hoo ha about how amazing it was. And then people just kind of dropped off. And they didn't support Kat and her mission and the way that they should have. And that was very hard for her because it's such uphill work. And it's exhausting as well, because this change is incremental, it's generational, we are not going to see a gigantic change in our lifetimes, it's not going to happen. That doesn't mean we give up. That means we keep pushing, and we keep trying to change things for the next generation that comes after us. But that is tiring. And so you need to be able to rest. You need to be able to recuperate your energy. And then you need to light the match again, and kind of off you go. And I think, I'm trying to not lose the momentum of the piece that I wrote. And there's a couple of things that I'm pushing with. So I know I've pulled together some industry bodies, most specifically in the UK, who work, in women's initiatives and LGBTQIA initiatives. And we're trying to come together to see if we can all push in the right direction on NDAs, for example. The government committed in the middle of 2019. They were going to pass some legislation on the inappropriate use of MBAs in the cases of sexual harassment, bullying and discrimination. And they said they would pass that legislation but there's not been a date as to when that's going to happen. But the fact that it's coming, that's precedent for the fact that it is, and it will be a thing. So we could actually write an overview of what agencies should do and what they shouldn't do in preparation for that. And actually, ahead of that legislation being passed, the BBC, the NHS and the House of Commons, have already signed up to its ideals, and so that they will never use NDAs in those cases. So again, there's no reason why the agencies can't sign up to that. So we're pushing in that direction at the moment. I'm also talking to some female political leaders to talk about how they might be able to push the legislation a bit faster, but also other things that we can put in place. And then some people are starting to rally, which is amazing around this idea of unionising, or having an ombudsman of some kind in the advertising industry that allows for a third party to be able to be created. So where women and/or men can go, if they need to escalate claims, which are not necessarily going to work. They escalate them within their own agencies, because a lot of HR departments have their to shut that stuff down. And they don't necessarily trust the system. And that's why, the research that came out was that 83% of women don't report this stuff, because they're scared of the consequences. But if they had an external escalation point, they may well actually do that. And then we can really start to track and see this problem and fix it faster. So there's a couple of different things that I'm trying to push. But again, as I said, I'm not a legal expert, I'm not an HR expert. So I need to pull in real experts to help me with this, but also, I can't do this as a one woman band, and I need support. And we've also got incredible professionals, as I said, who work in this space, they just needed the additional energy and outrage that the pieces created to then get the ball rolling again.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>46:37<br><br></div><div>And so fantastic, well done just for carrying on and doing actually, trying to make bigger changes. In the meantime, if there is someone listening to this, and they are struggling, I'm going to put a link to all of the things that we've talked about. But this piece as well, if anyone reads your piece and feels like they need somewhere to go, what bodies would you say? Or who who should they talk to in the meantime while we're waiting for these big changes to happen?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Zoe&nbsp; </strong>47:05<br><br></div><div>I think if you are in a media or creative industries, the best thing to do is to call NABS. It is a helpline that is set up specifically for this industry that has people that you can talk to who are very experienced in their space, so there are therapists, there are HR professionals, there are lawyers. And if you go to them and explain what it is that's happened to you, they're very understanding. It's kind of like a Samaritans type of hotline, and they will point you in the right direction in terms of getting some help, which I think is the right thing for you to do in the short term.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>47:35<br><br></div><div>Brilliant, brilliant, great advice. Thank you so much Zoe. I really appreciate you coming on. I know that you've had 1,000,001 invitations to join different podcasts. So I'm really grateful that you chose mine. But also, I noticed that you've got an event coming up on the 15th of September. I don't know if you wanted to mention that.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Zoe&nbsp; </strong>47:54<br><br></div><div>Yes. So I'm going to do a two hour deep dive into the new founding formula document that I produced a couple of weeks ago. A lot of it is locked in unless you actually buy it. But I'm going to do an unlocked presentation and a Q&amp;A at the end. There's only 100 tickets. So it's kind of first come first serve. I think I put it out late last night and there's 30 tickets gone already. So yes, if anyone's interested, then go to my twitter and you'll be able to see the link.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>48:18<br><br></div><div>Great. Okay, fantastic. And just finally, Zoe, who would you like to be contacted by? And do you have any final kind of pieces of advice for anyone working in an agency and walking up their career journey now, in terms of how to get involved with what you've been talking about?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Zoe&nbsp; </strong>48:39<br><br></div><div>I think the best thing to do is to keep your mind as open as possible. I think sometimes we get trapped in terms of what we should and shouldn't be looking at and interested in based on our career or based on the position that we're in right now. But I would encourage you to be curious, I'd encourage you to fall down rabbit holes. I'd encourage you to Google and read and all this kind of stuff if there's anything that's interesting to you, even if you don't work in that space. One of the big things that I found is, when I first started writing about fandoms, and cryptocurrency, I wasn't really working on those projects. But the more I started looking into them, the more I started connecting with the right people, the more I started writing about that space, and suddenly those projects found me. So I think that if you are interested in something, you can kind of read or write or connect your way into that space, you've just got to go for it.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>49:24<br><br></div><div>Brilliant. So once again, thank you so much. I'm going to put the links. If anyone's not following Zoe I would highly recommend you do so because she really keeps you up to date. And she's shared so many stories and examples of what's changing. And I think what's most important for agencies, like you said is to keep an open mind and to keep learning. So thank you so much Zoe.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Zoe&nbsp; </strong>49:47<br><br></div><div>No problem. Thank you.<br><br></div><div><strong><br></strong><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2021 06:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
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      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/c3f97020-e8a0-11eb-956c-77b3a5de4d1f/c3f97130-e8a0-11eb-b1b3-ff862ed8d17d.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2884</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 40. For this week's podcast, I was delighted to speak to Zoe Scaman. We talked about the creator economy and fandoms;  why the traditional agency business model is under threat, and we talked about her recent article called Mad Men Furious Women, in which she talks about misogyny in the ad industry. 
 
I hope you enjoy this episode with Zoe and come away as inspired as I was. If you're not already doing so, I'd highly recommend you follow Zoe on Twitter @zoescaman.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 40. For this week's podcast, I was delighted to speak to Zoe Scaman. We talked about the creator economy and fandoms;  why the traditional agency business model is under threat, and we talked about her recent article called Mad Men Furious Women, in which she talks about misogyny in the ad industry. 
 
I hope you enjoy this episode with Zoe and come away as inspired as I was. If you're not already doing so, I'd highly recommend you follow Zoe on Twitter @zoescaman.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Leading client meetings, with Jenny Plant</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/1831m6q8</link>
      <itunes:title>Leading client meetings, with Jenny Plant</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>39</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">m0j82740</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 39. This episode's for you if you're an account manager managing client relationships on a day to day basis. In this episode, I'm going to share with you three key steps to leading a client meeting.

One of the many roles of an account manager is to lead meetings where you may have several clients involved, and also several members of the agency team. This might be a presentation of your new ideas, or it could be campaign results, or even you might be conducting a post project review: anything where there's meetings of several individuals from both the clients side and the agency side. As the main point of client contact, you're the one that needs to be seen to be facilitating and leading a meeting such as this.

So I want to share with you three key steps you can take to make sure that you're covering all bases when you turn up at meetings.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:<br></strong>&nbsp;In this episode, I'm going to share with you three key steps to leading a client meeting. One of the many roles of an account manager is to lead meetings where you may have several clients involved, and also several members of the agency team. So this might be a presentation of your new ideas, or it could be campaign results, or even you might be conducting a post project review: anything where there's meetings of several individuals from both the clients side and the agency side. And actually, as main point of client contact, you're the one that needs to be seen to be facilitating and leading a meeting such as this. So I want to share with you three key steps you can take to make sure that you're covering all bases when you turn up at meetings. <strong><br></strong><br></div><div>And the reason I'm doing this is<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>many participants on my Account Accelerator programme tell me that sometimes they struggle, leading client meetings where there are several agency colleagues involved. And one of the reasons is, perhaps the agency colleagues that are attending the meeting are more senior, or maybe they're more extroverted, or maybe they just have more to say. But what happens is sometimes the account manager feels, hang on a minute, I should be sort of being seen to lead this, this call or this meeting and actually, what I'm beginning to feel like is, I'm not being the main person here, and I just don't look like I'm in control.&nbsp;<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>So it could be that there's another character in the room that's a stronger character, or they just simply know more about this particular topic, and are kind of an extroverted character where they like to talk a lot, but for whatever reason, really, if you follow these three key steps, I think you're going to set yourself up for success.<br><br></div><div>So the first step is to <strong>reconfirm</strong>. And they will begin with Rs because I love a model. So to Reconfirm the meeting with the client, so perhaps you've set a date with the client for two weeks time, where you're going to be presenting your ideas back. Now, the smart thing to do is before you turn up at the meeting, is to call in advance to make sure, maybe it's a several days in advance to reconfirm the time, reconfirm how you're going to connect, and also to go through the agenda. Now, this is also an opportunity to ask the client, what their expectations are for that meeting. For example, you could ask something like for this meeting to be successful, what for you needs to have happen by the end, and then you go really quiet, and you wait for the client to tell you. So you might be surprised, you might be surprised that they will say something like, Well, actually, my business unit director is going to be there. And actually, it's really important to me that you shine in front of him, because he doesn't know you, he's never met you and he might have another agency that he'd like to work with. Now, this is great background knowledge for you. So obviously, another important point of this is reconfirming who's going to be at that meeting. And like I just intimated perhaps there are going to be other people from the client side that you've never met before. So it would be really in your interest to understand who they are, how experienced they are, how up to date they are with the project, or what you're going to be presenting, and more importantly, what their expectations of that meeting are. So you know, you can ask your client contact, tell me who's going to be there? And can you spend a few minutes telling me a bit about the background to these people? And perhaps can you introduce me in advance, so perhaps I can introduce myself and just double check what their expectations are of the meeting. So this means that you are going to understand who's going to be there, and what they want. Now, a little tip, if you are given the names of those client individuals that you have met, then you can go over to LinkedIn and see if you can find their profile, look at their background experience. And also, you could download an app called C<a href="https://www.crystalknows.com/">rystal Knows</a> and Crystal Knows tells you the type of kind of communication style this individual has. It's really fascinating. I was a bit sceptical at the beginning, but I have to say having tested the app with several profiles of people that I know, I can honestly say that it's quite accurate. So this is obviously useful information for you because that will give you context for what kind of character they are, and perhaps what they're looking for. So for example, if you know from looking at their profile and looking at the app, maybe, that they tend to be very analytical, not particularly outgoing, they like the detail, they love spreadsheets, then you can then have that in mind, when you're presenting. You can maybe take a little information pack that they can then take away and have a look at in their own time. Similarly, if you find out that the characters that are going to be there are extroverted or expressive, or drivers, you know, get to the point, I want the outcomes, don't give me waffle, you know, just be sure to make to keep in mind that you need to adapt your style in the meeting to who's in the room. So that's the first thing, call in advance to reconfirm the meeting with the client. And also, sometimes when you do this, the client might say something like, Oh, I'm glad you called, because things have changed a little bit our side, or something actually else has come up that I need to brief you on. So perhaps we can put aside 20 minutes at the end of the call so I can brief you. You never know. So why is this important? Well, you don't want any surprises at the meeting. You want to look professional and buttoned up. You also want to know if the meeting could be any shorter. You know, if you've put aside 90 minutes for a huge presentation, but actually, the client tells you 90 minutes is a long time. How come? Let's talk about that. Could we do it in 15 minutes or something like that. Also, you want to do a bit of research on the company. You know, what's happening at the company level is anything that you should be aware of. Have a look at their client website for the latest company news, perhaps downloads the transcripts from the the investor relations meetings, if it's a big enterprise client, perhaps look on LinkedIn for the CEO and see if there's any latest news he shared. So yeah, reconvene the meeting, do a bit of background reading.<br><br></div><div>And then the next step is to <strong>Rehearse</strong>. So the other R is rehearse. And that's where you want to pull the agency team members together, to talk them through your pre meeting plan. And that is essentially briefing them on who's going to be there, what their expectations are, go through the agenda, and agree roles and responsibilities. And this will prevent anyone talking over you, for example, if you agree that you're going to be the one leading the meeting, facilitating the meeting, opening up the meeting. It's also an open opportunity to think about and anticipate any questions that you think might come up in the meeting, so that you can agree as a team, how you're going to respond to those questions. You may have some questions yourself that you'd like to ask. Also agreeing,&nbsp; how you're going to interact with the team? Who's going to go first, who's going to go second? What's going to happen at the end? Maybe you have a Q&amp;A session, and who's going to lead that and maybe direct the questions. So, getting the team together is a real lovely way for the rest of the agency team members who perhaps don't have that regular contact with your client, to feel included, to feel updated, to feel prepared, and part of your team. So rehearse get together and make sure that, you know, by the time you get in front of the client, you are a well oiled machine, and you've anticipated different things that can happen.<br><br></div><div>The third step of leading a meeting is to be <strong>Ready</strong> to lead. So this is the third R,&nbsp; ready to lead. And essentially, it's where your job is to at the beginning of the meeting for everyone there, restate the meeting agenda, talk about timings of the meeting, and what's going to happen at the end. So for example, you might might say that, at the end, my job is going to be to take note of the key action points. And what I'll do at the end of this meeting, is go through those key actions to get them agreed. And then I will within 24 hours of the meeting ending I will circulate a contact report with those key actions document documented. So that's always a good thing to do. Also, if there are any breaks in the meeting, just make sure that you've told everyone, look, we're going to be pausing for 10 minutes for a refreshment break, so that everyone knows in advance that they can maybe take a call that they need to or send an email. And then facilitate the discussion.<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>Make sure that you're the one leading the meeting pulling people in and looking for those signals from from the client side, particularly, if they are, you know, maybe losing their concentration, getting distracted looking bored, look for members of your team, maybe that may be waffling a little bit too long, or going off agenda points, make sure you bring everyone back to the key objective of why you're there. And then at the end of the call, you can then wrap up, summarise the key points that have been covered in the meeting, and talk about next steps.&nbsp;<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>So let's just recap. So the three R's so<strong> Reconfirm</strong> the meeting in advance, <strong>Rehearse</strong> the meeting internally, and then be <strong>Ready</strong> to lead the meeting with the client. So I hope you found that useful. I hope there was a couple of reminders there for what you can do. But it's always good to have a process that you follow for every meeting, so that everyone knows the protocol, particularly for big meetings where you only get one chance.<br><br></div><div>There's another episode of the podcast where I talk about how to overcome status quo bias. And this is where you may be presenting new ideas and perhaps the client is potentially resistant to those ideas, and how you can overcome them. So you can certainly have a have a look back at that episode, I'll include the<a href="https://accountmanagementskills.com/how-to-present-new-ideas-to-clients-with-behavioural-science-in-mind/"> link in the show notes</a>. And this will give you a reminder of the checklist that you can go through to make sure you cover all of those points to overcome the client status quo bias.<br><br></div><div>I hope you enjoyed that episode. And if you have any questions about leading meetings, then please look me up on LinkedIn, Jenny Plant, send me an email <a href="mailto:jenny@accountmanagementskills.com">jenny@accountmanagementskills.com</a>.<br><br></div><div>And just to let you know, I'm running my next Account Accelerator programme on the 23rd of September. This is going to be a nine week programme with five 90 minute coaching sessions every two weeks. And it's where I talk you through a systematic approach and a client centric approach to client growth. So it's to take you from unpredictable project revenue to more predictable account growth. And it is for you if you've been in an account management role for at least two years managing managing client relationships and you are responsible for account growth. Then come over to my website on the training hub, and you can find out more. It's <a href="https://accountmanagementskills.com/training/">accountmanagementskills.com/training</a>.&nbsp;<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2021 06:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/08mvqj0w.mp3" length="13577320" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/15f7c060-e2f8-11eb-9c4e-73acb452d3a6/15f7c180-e2f8-11eb-aa95-b5ed8fef1e1b.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>678</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 39. This episode's for you if you're an account manager managing client relationships on a day to day basis. In this episode, I'm going to share with you three key steps to leading a client meeting.

One of the many roles of an account manager is to lead meetings where you may have several clients involved, and also several members of the agency team. This might be a presentation of your new ideas, or it could be campaign results, or even you might be conducting a post project review: anything where there's meetings of several individuals from both the clients side and the agency side. As the main point of client contact, you're the one that needs to be seen to be facilitating and leading a meeting such as this.

So I want to share with you three key steps you can take to make sure that you're covering all bases when you turn up at meetings.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 39. This episode's for you if you're an account manager managing client relationships on a day to day basis. In this episode, I'm going to share with you three key steps to leading a client meeting.

One of the many roles of an account manager is to lead meetings where you may have several clients involved, and also several members of the agency team. This might be a presentation of your new ideas, or it could be campaign results, or even you might be conducting a post project review: anything where there's meetings of several individuals from both the clients side and the agency side. As the main point of client contact, you're the one that needs to be seen to be facilitating and leading a meeting such as this.

So I want to share with you three key steps you can take to make sure that you're covering all bases when you turn up at meetings.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>Client Insights Report 2021, part two, with Carey Evans &amp; Simon Rhind-Tutt</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/lnq10jmn</link>
      <itunes:title>Client Insights Report 2021, part two, with Carey Evans &amp; Simon Rhind-Tutt</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>38</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">81np4z61</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 38. This is part two of a two part interview with Simon Rhind-Tutt and Carey Evans from Relationship Audits and Management. 

If you didn't catch the first part, I would urge you to go back to Episode 37 and make sure that you listen to that one, because we covered the three themes of their interviews with hundreds of clients over the last year:

- Is your agency fit for purpose? 
- Are you nimble enough? 
- Are you communicating in the best way? 

This episode, we're going to cover three new themes:
- Are you sharing learnings from other clients? 
- Are you better or worse a tech? 
- And did you realise that what drives perception of value for money has changed. 

I hope you enjoy this final part of the interview with Simon and Carey and come away with some ideas for what you could perhaps be doing differently with your agency right now, as a result of the insights that they both shared. 

If you have been listening to this podcast for a while, I would really love you to go and leave a review on Apple podcasts so that more people can get to hear it. I would love your review to be very honest.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:</strong><br><br><strong><br></strong><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>00:00<br><br></div><div>So I want to move on to the next theme, if that's okay, which particularly stood out for me, is all about the question around 'Are you sharing learnings from other clients?' So can you tell me the background to this question and some of your recommendations?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey&nbsp; </strong>00:15<br><br></div><div>Yeah. I mean, it's fascinating. Whenever there's uncertainty, people want to know what the best thing to do is. And if you're an agency, you've got loads of clients generally, or at least you've got more than one. And so if you're working with different clients, you may be coming across different ways of dealing with things like the pandemic. Now, this of course, is not just about the pandemic, this is something that's we've noticed over the years, has been around for a long time, where a client will say to an agency, 'I tell you what, what are you doing for others of your clients that I can use and reapply to my business?' And they just go 'Oh, yeah. Okay'. And then if asked, the agency will think about it and go to them. But the real opportunity here is to just turn that round. You know, 25%, sorry, 100% of clients want their agencies to leverage their learning with other clients to their benefit. 25% of agencies do so. 100 versus 25. It's dead easy, right? If you're doing stuff for a certain client that works, and you see an analogous situation with another client that could benefit from a similar sort of situation, then why not share, confidentiality being prime of course, but you can certainly talk broad principles as and when you do it. And of course, the great thing is you can also turn these things into case studies, whereby it becomes an agency library of how to apply, reapply learning from one situation to another one while making adjustments at the margin. Now, all clients want, everybody wants the inside track right? Now, this is such an easy thing for agencies to do. It's true of service providers in every market we've looked at, the clients want them to leverage their learning.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>02:19<br><br></div><div>I absolutely agree and I love that you're making this point. And I just hope everyone takes it on board, because it's such an easy win. But do you know what? One agency account manager told me, I talk about this in my programme, and we talk about using client stories and talking about what other clients are benefiting from and what you're seeing, the trends, the patterns. And you know what she said? I've always been told in client service, you shouldn't be talking about other clients, because the client you're with wants to feel like the only client. So up until that point, she hadn't ever referred to what she's doing with other clients. So that's a little bit inside the mind. Now what she actually did, was she did tell the client a story about what she was doing with other clients. And because this particular client, he was ambitious, he wanted to look good within the company, he started leaning in and saying, 'So tell me, what else are you doing for the other clients? Yes, I want to know that and send me a proposal to this and what else what else?' She came away from that meeting, no word of a lie because I've got it recorded, for a proposal to write for £150,000 worth of new business. So what you're saying, when I read that in your report, I just thought yes, finally, kind of it's official!<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey&nbsp; </strong>03:38<br><br></div><div>Yeah. And, there's a great example, two months ago, I was interviewing a lady client of one of my clients. And she said that when she had gone into this role, they had two B2B agencies and the split was roughly 50/50. Six months in, the split is now 65/35 in favour of the agency that employed us last year, took our advice and started sharing learning. So they've increased their share. And the other thing that agencies kind of get very nervous about and very timid about, is the concept that the clients of the agencies should in fact meet in some way. Club clients together, what they might say?! Clients love it! Clients want to do it because they want an opportunity to network, they want an opportunity to learn and reapply. It's all about learn and reapply. Get the shortcut, get the journey.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>04:50<br><br></div><div>I don't know whether we mentioned this last time, but it's probably worth telling the story again. There is an agency we work with in the States who want to bring thought leadership and added value to the client relationships. And what they do every quarter is they invite I think, four or five, let's say other marketing managers or marketing directors to a meeting, where they bring the creative director and the strategic planning director, and generally the managing director of the agency And the client is asked to bring one business challenge or problem that they are facing. Prior to the meeting, everybody has signed an NDA. And so the way it works is, let's say client 'A'&nbsp; has 10 minutes to talk about the background and the issue that they are facing. And then either 20 minutes or half an hour, the group then discuss different views on how that problem might be addressed. But the idea is that people come with problems and it's basically brainstormed not just with the agency, but with their peers. Now, obviously, their peers don't come from the similar categories or similar markets. But everybody walks out with something. The agency has a better view of the issues that's driving the business. And those clients have actually also met some peers and contacts that they can keep in contact with. And that is a very different mechanism but from everything that we hear with this agency, it works really, really well.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>06:28<br><br></div><div>Wow, that shows a level of confidence that also demonstrates that you are a true trusted advisor, aren't you? Because you're helping them ultimately solve their business problem.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>06:38<br><br></div><div>It does, it does. You know, one of the things that staggers me is, Carey and I have been running relationship audits for over 20 years now. And what Carey said is absolutely true that, agencies seem to be fearful of introducing their clients to each other. It beats me why agencies don't do conferences, and actually bring all their clients together, because clients like to meet other clients. And it's one thing in the old sales promotion industry, now the activation industry or whatever, it used to be fantastic at partnering and bringing people together. And you know, it's one of the things that we're seeing particularly in the professional services arena, we work for a number of big law firms, one of the big added value areas, is making pertinent introductions. Introducing one client to another, or other people that they have contact with within an industry. It adds an enormous amount of value. And also, it also shows how confident the agency or the firm is. Something to possibly think about.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>06:43<br><br></div><div>I think it's a great, great tip. Is there any kind of watch outs for doing that though? For example, is the reason that that's so pertinent is because the majority of your clients tend to have the title of Marketing Director? And therefore, of course they're going to be interested in meeting other marketers from other industries to share learnings. Is it necessary that they have the same category background or not category, but title?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>08:20<br><br></div><div>Yes, the two big watch outs are nobody in the faintest way could be considered conflicts. Point one. And point two is you have people at the same level. So there wouldn't be any problem of having marketing directors and marketing managers, but you wouldn't invite let's say, a managing director from one company, and a product manager from another. And then thirdly, it's the same when we're doing interviews, be they online, or deep dive interviews, you invite everybody from the same level, you just don't pick one or two. And, you know what, again it's something you can learn from the professional services firms, we're talking about a conference, but in a sense it's kind of training and adding value through some form of thought leadership. It's a fantastic way to not only embed yourself with the clients that you actually currently work with, but also to get attendance from other people that may never have heard of the agency. It's something that the social agencies and the digital agencies, a few have done well, a few haven't really taken the opportunity because it's something that anybody, particularly in marketing management, needs to actually know about. And those agencies that have offered training and thought leadership have become, in many, many cases, the trusted advisors and experts to their client on that subject.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>10:02<br><br></div><div>Brilliant tips. The other thing I'm seeing, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, but to that idea about training, some agencies do it and have been doing it during the sort of COVID era, running sort of educational webinars, but they tend to just do it for prospective clients rather than their existing clients. Are you seeing that trend as well?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>10:24<br><br></div><div>No, but that's just utter, utter, utter madness.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey&nbsp; </strong>10:26<br><br></div><div>I couldn't agree more.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>10:30<br><br></div><div>And that really says a lot about agencies like that, that they undervalue their clients hugely. And you know, as what we said last time, their clients are other people's new business prospects. And particularly areas like training are a great way, obviously, to actually get clients, but also to actually add value to existing relationships. I mean, frankly, if you think about it, if you've got moderately happy, or very happy clients, and you're inviting a few new business prospects, you will find that your existing clients will be doing the selling of the agency to your prospective clients.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>11:16<br><br></div><div>Perfect point. Absolutely. So I'm just conscious of time, and I know that I could talk to you two all day, we know that already. I want to cover these themes, because you've got six themes. And so far, we've covered four. Theme five was all about, 'Are you better or worse at technology?'<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey&nbsp; </strong>11:35<br><br></div><div>I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this, because I think this is a pretty kind of black and white situation. Technology, as Simon said, people were talking about our use of technology and technology has changed business, more in five weeks than 8 or 10 weeks, and in 10 years. So technology was a big theme last year. And we've got some examples of where people get that right, and where they get it wrong. So, a lot of companies, 70% of companies say technology is important, but it's around about 40%/ 42% of clients who say they really understand the technological competencies of their agencies. And that technology thing is important. We're working with a company, for example, for whom we create reports in fine detail. But we also have a dashboard, and this is for our radar product. We expose the dashboard, a new bunch of people at the client hadn't been exposed to the dashboard previously. We exposed them to the dashboard and they went, 'Wow, this can make our life so much easier. Wow!' And they said, 'Well, why didn't you tell us ' and we said, 'Well, we did tell you, but the people we told have moved on, and the people that are still there haven't bothered to tell you'.&nbsp; You know, it was one of these things. So you never assume. And then the two examples I wanted to bring, was that we came across one example last year, an agency that had developed a fantastic intranet. And what they were able to do is a global relationship. And they were able to use that intranet to provide access to clients on a local basis, to the library of assets that had been created, and make it really easy for them to download it on a local basis, and so on and so forth. So made the process simpler. And&nbsp; something that will withstand and go past the whole pandemic thing because it's just a good idea. And now the other side of the technology is when you when you haven't really thought it through. And there's a great example we heard last year of our of an agency that was down to the sort of the final stages of a pitch for a big UK grocery retailer. And when it came to the sort of the technological audit, the process people were wanting to put in place, what they found was that the agency's capabilities and technology could not deliver what the client wanted, because there was so much, more re-engineering would be needed. And so the agency lost, even though they were in the final shortlist, they lost out because they did not have the competence and capabilities to be able to deliver what that particular client wanted. So, the whole thing about technology, I can go on and on about this, but the reality is, you need to understand whether your technological process and systems and capabilities is fit for the purpose of what your clients want, and are there any ways in which you can leverage your technology to actually gain competitive advantage?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>14:51<br><br></div><div>Wow.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>14:53<br><br></div><div>And Carey, can I just add to that? In the same way that Diversity and Inclusion it used to be a tick box on a RFP but now it's switched to rather than a nod, unless you can prove it you won't get through to the shortlist or won't get appointed. It is worth checking out the clients expectations in terms of technological capabilities before you decide to pitch.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey&nbsp; </strong>15:23<br><br></div><div>There's another bit to that too, which is that, if you've got a client and the client works with different agencies in different organisations, one of things you can do quite simply is ask the client, 'Can you give us an example of another supplier with whom you work, that has a fantastic technological solution to a problem that you may have had in the past?' That gives you, 'Aha, we should go and talk to those people'. So that's, again, that's a simple thing you can do.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>15:53<br><br></div><div>Jenny could just add one other thing. I think that there will be a lot of account managers, account directors listening to this podcast and the analogy I would give is understanding what a car can do rather than how the engine works. Understand what technology you have within your agency and the benefits it can bring. Because also, we find with a lot of agencies and service providers, the people that are representing the agency aren't communicating the technology that the agency actually has, to the client. And you never know, you may have competitive points of advantage in terms of the technology you use, and how you do it over and above the competitive set.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>16:46<br><br></div><div>Great advice again. I've got so many more questions, but I do want to get through the themes. I'm just jotting them down, so if we have time. The theme number six was 'Do you realise what drives perception of value?' I mean now, do you realise what's changed?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>17:06<br><br></div><div>I mean, the simple thing is that value for money appears to becoming less transactional. And what I mean by that is, less transactional in terms of what's paid, versus the deliverables that are given to the client. What we're seeing is soft factors. And by soft factors, what I mean is the quality of staff, people's attitude. As Carey said earlier, flexibility and agility and going the extra mile, are becoming increasingly more valued. And for many clients, this is reflecting the growing desire for true business partnerships in these uncertain times. And that's probably why our data suggests that value for money is highly correlated with a propensity to award more business alongside the quality of the team. So this is really, really important. The more you can be showing and demonstrating value for money with the hard as well as the soft factors, the more likely you are to actually win more business from an existing client. So there are a couple of points coming out of this. Again, this is a recurring theme from what I've been saying, which is take the time to ask your clients. And in this case, what they take into account when they judge value for money. Obviously continue to work on the hard factors such as delivering on brief, on budget and on time, but also consider&nbsp; these soft measures, such as the quality of the business relationships and going the extra mile. Be able to demonstrate the value that you bring against your clients defined criteria. One of the things that we often find is that agencies have a clear view of what they believe value for money is. Well I can tell you, 9 times out of 10 that that won't accurately measure up against what a client's definition of value for money is. So ask. And then thirdly, and probably in passing, even before the pandemic, we heard almost on a weekly basis, our own clients talking about the dearth of quality talent, at junior and middle management level, and clients often airing their frustrations about the churn of staff. The thing to say is that clients put a huge value on the retention of staff, and there is a definite straight line towards the quality of the business relationship and the continuity of the staff. A lot of agencies are going through an awful lot of churn at the moment and one of the ways you can differentiate yourself and your agencies is to have happy, motivated people continuing to work on and know the client's business.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>20:01<br><br></div><div>Where do you see agencies that do particularly well, in retaining their existing staff?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey&nbsp; </strong>20:09<br><br></div><div>It's an attitude of mind. I think it's an attitude of mind, it's about being inclusive. So for example, we do an annual client evaluation audit for one Pharma agency. And what we did this year was, we came out with a whole bunch of kind of conclusions, recommendations. And then what we did was we got involved with the leadership team, but with the whole agency. And we said, so these are the things that you're doing really well. These are the things that you need to be thinking more deeply about and think about ways of enhancing this. And these are the issues, these are the problems. And&nbsp; what we did, it was fantastic, everybody in the agency was embroiled in this. They developed different cohorts, with each cohort was given a part of these things to review, come up with potential suggestions, and then kind of report back to the group. So the point about all this was that the problems and the issues and the opportunities were all if you like, fed up from the bottom. So everybody in the business, felt they knew what the issues were the clients had, what the clients thought, what the misperceptions were, where they had concerns. And the point is, the agency involved everybody in being part of the solution. That's a cracking way of doing it.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>21:39<br><br></div><div>It's such a fantastic example of superb leadership isn't it, to get everyone empowered to feel they're part of the solution? Because that's part of it, isn't it, to make people feel they have some control?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey&nbsp; </strong>21:52<br><br></div><div>I think that the other thing, building on what Simon said too, is that one of the things that comes out when people say, 'Oh, the agency is expensive, are they worth it?' 'Yeah'. 'Well why they worth it?' Well, because, for those people who do, because they leverage their learning? Or because they give a regular once a month or once a quarter, they give us a proactive idea. So the point about it is that what you're doing is, as Simon said, the value for money has got more elements coming into it in terms of expression. But there are some simple things that you can do. If you are being more proactive and regularly coming up with an idea, you don't have to be proactive every single day of the week it's nonsense, but if you can come back, maybe once a quarter, or you can go and say, 'You know what, we just kind of took a look at your competition and what they're saying. And we put it as a presentation for you. Would you like to see that?' That builds a perception of getting more bang for your buck.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>22:58<br><br></div><div>But, and I know we're tight for time, but it's making things simple. It's also bringing people on, and particularly the junior people and giving them experience. Carey, why don't you just talk briefly about when you came into advertising with Y&amp;R, what you were set up to do?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey&nbsp; </strong>23:15<br><br></div><div>I worked in Young and Rubicam and I was the junior oik on a beer account. And somebody said to me, 'What you've got to do Evans, you've got to make yourself somebody that you want to go to for something.' And so I decided I was going to make myself the expert on the beer advertising, on the competitive beer advertising. So I did a whole bunch of work on that. Did analysis of spend and this, that and the other. And did what we used to call copy evaluations and evaluate the strategy, the communication and all that stuff. And it was great because I built a reputation of being 'Hang on, we're talking with a competition, let's get Evans in here'. So you start to build yourself a perceived competence within the agency. So if you are the go to person on something that helps build your business, your own business and your profile within the agency. And of course, with the client as well.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>23:28<br><br></div><div>Actually Carey, I haven't told you this story, but at the same time when we were in different agencies, I saw that the marketing director of one of the big breweries was talking at a conference and I got myself a ticket and went one lunchtime and took notes. And I came back, and I wrote up those notes and sent them to the account director, the head of new business. That immediately went to the MD, that immediately went to the chairman and it was then sent as a new business mailer and I'd actually made my name just by doing that. And it's just showing that bit of hunger and&nbsp; understanding. And the ironic thing was it was Carey's client,&nbsp; so I was just trying to nick Carey's client at the time. But anyway!<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>24:28<br><br></div><div>Oh, that's so funny. Talking of hunger, I've been talking to agencies recently about their approach to gathering feedback from their clients. Many agencies tell me, 'Oh yeah, we're going to do the survey'. And they always assume and default to some kind of survey, whether it be online or, so you made the point Simon, just before we joined the call, that you're being asked to do so many more deep dive conversations with clients? Why do you think businesses and agencies are concluding that that's what they want to invest their time in?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>25:52<br><br></div><div>Because if money was no object and time was no object, talking to people on a one to one basis is the most valuable sort of feedback you can get. Business relationships are getting more complicated. And to be able to if you like, to get the colour rather than just the black of white, through deep dives, in depth interviews, is absolutely now more valuable than it ever has been. Just to fill the picture, our business originally started just in doing deep dive, depth interviews. Then, about 10 years ago it shifted hugely in terms of online. One year, I think we did over 30,000 online interviews with individuals. It now seems to be coming back and a lot of our programmes are if you like, a blend between deep dive interviews with the most important or biggest clients or key decision makers, and then covering everybody else off in terms of online. And obviously, there are common questions for both, but I think the main message is that people are now taking it very, very seriously. And to your point, Jenny, when you opened to say that when we worked with you, we were able to bring back intelligence which kept that client with you for another two years, which I think was a seven figure in terms of fees, it's got to be worth the investment.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey&nbsp; </strong>27:42<br><br></div><div>It's a great thing, it's that moment, and Simon and I both have this, when you're doing an interview, I think that the reason more people wanted interviews last year is again, based on the uncertainty, they wanted a clear picture of what was going on and they felt the best way of doing that was to ask questions. But there's that fabulous moment when you've been doing an interview, you've built a bridge of rapport, the client's telling you all kinds of stuff, some of which you know already, because the agency told you, and then says that immortal line, and kind of looks at you and looks away and, 'Shouldn't tell you this, but blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.' Yes, that's a 'kerching' moment. That is, you've built the trust and you've pulled and squeezed that little nugget out, which can make all the difference.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>28:38<br><br></div><div>Absolutely.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>28:39<br><br></div><div>I'm willing to be very biased, but it's just not tipping up and going, 'Oh, I've got 10 questions to go through with you. So the first question is, for our creative standards like...' It's not like that. There is, believe me a real art to actually doing this. And the art is that you actually see the benefit if you like, with the art and the experience in those 'kerching' moments.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey&nbsp; </strong>29:08<br><br></div><div>The other important thing is here, we've been doing this a long time, right? I know, we don't look very old, but we've been doing it a long time. And so what we've learned over the over the years is, which questions to ask, which questions work. You won't get the right answers unless you ask the right questions.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>29:28<br><br></div><div>But you're also hugely intuitive about responding and knowing when to stop, hold back, knowing when to push. And you read people. I think this is what your years of experience of just, it's listening for what's not being said.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey&nbsp; </strong>29:44<br><br></div><div>Yeah, it is. And we have an expression that we've got - 'going off piste'. So if the client wants to go off somewhere and talk about something else, you just kind of go with them when we do the interviews because you never know what's going to come out the other way, which could be valuable and which you hadn't intended to even look for. So the interviews are, it's a way of adding colour. And the other thing that's important is that, I'll never forget, again another one last example for me, I was once had to do an interview for agency, and I said to the agency people beforehand, are there any issues I should be aware of, and they said no we're pretty good. There was a little issue on planning but you know, that's gone away, years ago. So I went to see this guy and the guy actually was a guy who used to be my client, when I worked for an agency. I said, 'Tell me about blah agency. What's the big picture here?' And he said, 'Ah, planning, bloody planning, planning, bloody planning!' Now, I'd been told that the issue was a minor issue that had been resolved six months ago or a year ago. And that's the benefit of the of the deep dive interview where you sit down in front of someone, you look at their body language, and you get the right volume level. It's the volume level that matters.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>30:57<br><br></div><div>Totally. Listen, I want to ask you one more thing, because I would love to ask you both about the trends that you're seeing right now and your advice for agencies to equip them. One of the things you mentioned Simon before was, there's a lot of acquisition going on, like agencies acquiring other agencies. And I know that you're involved in that. So I'd love you to maybe speak to that, a little bit about some of the trends that you're seeing currently.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>31:26<br><br></div><div>Well, undoubtedly, the M&amp;A sector is very, very busy. Certainly all the mergers and acquisitions consultants that we know and work with say that they've frankly never known it busier. What is interesting though, is that some of the some of the work we do, we call relationship diligence, which is working for a buyer to check out somebody that wants to sell their agencies quality of their client relationships. What we've seen is a significant growth on behalf of agencies that are looking to sell probably between two and five years time, and putting in place regular independent assessments, so that they will be able to show to their clients that they have a rigorous process. As one of our clients said, 'Well, the reason I'm working with you guys is because I can't mark my own homework.' So that's certainly something that's very, very busy. Secondly pitching, we've talked about, it's interesting that looking at many professional services firms, I wouldn't say automate the pitch process, but certainly in terms of RFIs, they have certain templates ready to go that are actually tweaked on a case by case basis. Thirdly for me, I'm sure Carey's got some more, the better agencies are doing proportionally a lot better than agencies that really haven't got their act together. So if things are very, very quiet for you, for those of you listening at the moment, then you've got to ask yourself, well are we really positioned as well as we possibly can be? Carey, do you want to add anything to that?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey&nbsp; </strong>33:20<br><br></div><div>Not really, I mean one of the themes that came out and we've talked about this before, in when the whole lockdown thing started, clients were saying, there's the people who work with us through this whole pandemic issue, those are the people if they do it well, that will benefit when the pandemic has moved on. And as we moving out of the pandemic now, I think we'll see the same thing, which is those people who did these things that we've been talking about today, leverage learning, being flexible, being sensitive to communication needs, all that kind of stuff, those people who did that are benefiting. That's important.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>33:59<br><br></div><div>And actually, one final thing from me Jenny, we've talked about lots of initiatives such as post project reviews, competitive reviews, etc. I can imagine the people listening to this going, 'Oh, I haven't got the time to do my day job, let alone the extra!' And I absolutely get that. The one thing that clients really appreciate, as we all do, is&nbsp; brevity and keeping things short. Trying to do whatever you're going to do, on one page. And so to have a good one page document, I'm not undermining how difficult that is and how much thought that actually goes into it, but please rest assured, what you can do to add value and build better client relationships doesn't have to be long.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>34:53<br><br></div><div>Great point to finish on, thank you so much, because I've been hearing exactly the same thing. Listen, both of you thank you so much for joining me again. As usual, you've delivered a huge amount of value, loads of insights. And I'm sure people have been furiously taking notes and have got lots of ideas to go away with. And how can people get hold of you if they want to have a conversation around how you could perhaps help them with their business and auditing relationships?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>35:18<br><br></div><div>Well, you can get a hold of us at <a href="http://www.relationshipaudits.com">relationshipaudits.com</a>. And that's probably the easiest way to do that and go on to the contact page. And why don't we also Jenny, when you post this, put our email addresses both Carey, if you think Carey's better looking than me!<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey&nbsp; </strong>35:40<br><br></div><div>Obviously let's not go down to looks, we'll just get down to hair, shall we?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>35:44<br><br></div><div>All right, okay. So you've got a choice, you've got either/or so the switch sell.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>35:52<br><br></div><div>Fantastic, I will make sure to include both your email addresses and the link to the website. So thank you so much again, I really appreciate it.<br><a href="mailto:carey.evans@relationshipaudits.com"><strong>carey.evans@relationshipaudits.com</strong></a><strong> <br></strong><a href="mailto:simon@relationshipaudits.com"><strong>simon@relationshipaudits.com</strong></a></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>36:02<br><br></div><div>Our pleasure.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey&nbsp; </strong>36:03<br><br></div><div>Our pleasure. Thanks.<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2021 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/28kp7r5w.mp3" length="40341336" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/9d9ff430-db34-11eb-9694-8ffc3e760629/9d9ff530-db34-11eb-8d3e-bfb11284c9b8.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2016</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 38. This is part two of a two part interview with Simon Rhind-Tutt and Carey Evans from Relationship Audits and Management. 

If you didn't catch the first part, I would urge you to go back to Episode 37 and make sure that you listen to that one, because we covered the three themes of their interviews with hundreds of clients over the last year:

- Is your agency fit for purpose? 
- Are you nimble enough? 
- Are you communicating in the best way? 

This episode, we're going to cover three new themes:
- Are you sharing learnings from other clients? 
- Are you better or worse a tech? 
- And did you realise that what drives perception of value for money has changed. 

I hope you enjoy this final part of the interview with Simon and Carey and come away with some ideas for what you could perhaps be doing differently with your agency right now, as a result of the insights that they both shared. 

If you have been listening to this podcast for a while, I would really love you to go and leave a review on Apple podcasts so that more people can get to hear it. I would love your review to be very honest.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 38. This is part two of a two part interview with Simon Rhind-Tutt and Carey Evans from Relationship Audits and Management. 

If you didn't catch the first part, I would urge you to go back to Episode 37 and make sure that you listen to that one, because we covered the three themes of their interviews with hundreds of clients over the last year:

- Is your agency fit for purpose? 
- Are you nimble enough? 
- Are you communicating in the best way? 

This episode, we're going to cover three new themes:
- Are you sharing learnings from other clients? 
- Are you better or worse a tech? 
- And did you realise that what drives perception of value for money has changed. 

I hope you enjoy this final part of the interview with Simon and Carey and come away with some ideas for what you could perhaps be doing differently with your agency right now, as a result of the insights that they both shared. 

If you have been listening to this podcast for a while, I would really love you to go and leave a review on Apple podcasts so that more people can get to hear it. I would love your review to be very honest.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Client Insights Report 2021, part one, with Carey Evans &amp; Simon Rhind-Tutt</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/p8ly3yqn</link>
      <itunes:title>Client Insights Report 2021, part one, with Carey Evans &amp; Simon Rhind-Tutt</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>37</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">x1lr4r51</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 37. This is part one of a two part interview with Simon Rhind-Tutt and Carey Evans from Relationship Audits and Management. They've put together a report summarising what clients are telling them about agencies.

They've taken this data from hundreds of interviews that they've conducted with clients over the last year. There are six themes in total, and they talk us through each theme, share some insights, share some quotes from clients, and then, most importantly, what they believe agencies need to do about it. What actions do we need to take?

Part one covers three key themes:

Is your agency fit for purpose?
Are you nimble enough?
Are you communicating in the best way?

I would urge you to tune in to the part two, next week where we're going to follow the theme and cover three more topics - are you sharing learnings from other clients; are you better or worse at tech; and did you realise that what drives perception of value for money has changed.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:<br></strong><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>00:03<br><br></div><div>So I'm absolutely thrilled to have Simon and Carey back from <a href="https://www.relationshipaudits.com">Relationship Audits</a>. As many of the listeners are probably aware, as are the participants on my programmes, I'm a huge fan of relationship audits and what they've done. What they did for me when I was working at publicists, which was to come in, audit a relationship that wasn't going particularly well for the agency, and managed to extend that relationship by two years by finding out what was really going on with the client. So relationship audits and management, essentially, listen for what's not being said, with your clients. And I recommend them to every agency that I work with, because they are phenomenal. And not only that, but they have a huge amount of benchmarking data across many different industries, particularly in the creative space. So I'm delighted to have them back. So Carey, can I come over to you just to give a short intro to who you are and what you do?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey&nbsp; </strong>00:56<br><br></div><div>Thank you Jenny, your cheque's in the post!<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>00:59<br><br></div><div>Great!<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey&nbsp; </strong>01:02<br><br></div><div>So for those who don't know us, and I'm sure there's quite a few people who don't know who we are, the clue to what we do is in the name. So Relationship Audits, we audit relationships amongst commercial organisations who either provide a service or buy a service. So if you're a client, you might evaluate your agency or if you're an agency, you might evaluate your relationships with your clients. And we do that in the UK, we do it globally, we've got partners in different countries of the world. And we gather our intelligence by either talking to people with in depth interviews, or by using our award winning online assessment tools, prime of which is Relationship Radar. So that's what we do.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>01:50<br><br></div><div>Brilliant. Thank you so much for that lovely, succinct intro. So one of the big reasons I've invited Simon and Carey on is that they've developed recently a really insightful report about their findings, having worked with clients over the last couple of years. And this obviously spans COVID. So in 2020 and 2021. And actually, the insight that they've gathered from clients talking about their relationship with service providers, can provide us with some actions, some activities and recommendations for what we should be doing differently now. So Simon, would you mind spending a couple of minutes just talking about the context behind this report that you've put together?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>02:36<br><br></div><div>Yes Jenny, thank you very much indeed and hello, everybody. One of the things that we often say to our clients, or indeed their clients often say to us, is that agencies are pretty poor leveraging their collective learning. So we, in a sense, decided to take our own advice and actually look at the themes that clients have been saying to us about their agency relationships over the last 12 months. And what we've done is we've put this together in a series about half a dozen themes of the key and regular things that people are actually talking to us about.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>03:16<br><br></div><div>Fantastic. Okay, fantastic. So I'm going to start us off by talking about theme one, which is, I love the way you've titled these, because it's a question, and actually people listening might be thinking, hmm, good question. So the first question is, 'Is your agency fit for purpose?' So can you talk me through a little bit about what you discovered?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>03:35<br><br></div><div>Yeah, sure. It's amazing to think that it's now over a year since COVID hit and many countries all around the world went into lockdown. And, you know, especially for the business services sectors, such as marketing services, most clients, not all but most, cut their spending and agencies had to rapidly adapt be it furloughing staff or putting other staff on to reduced days per week. And undoubtedly, there was a real shakeout. And what our research consistently shows, is those that had the best service, the best client relationships are undoubtedly the ones that have performed better. It's interesting that some of our clients say to us, what's happening out there? It's all a bit quiet. And I don't think it's any coincidence that those are the agencies that tend to have the poorest client relationship scores. The best ones, certainly, that we've seen over the last few months have been, if they've been complaining about anything, it's the amount of pitch opportunities. So there's undoubtedly been a real shakeout. And what we've also seen is that time poor and insecure clients have really reverted to placing their work with those that they really considered to be what you call trusted advisors. In fact, probably about two thirds told us that supply and performance during lockdown was likely to impact their intentions to work with them in the future. And that we're certainly seeing is the case. Now, clearly, there have been a number of challenges there. The agencies that put their staff onto shorter working weeks, many of them face frustrations from clients, they couldn't get hold of their team when they needed them. And that from hundreds of client companies we spoken to, there hasn't been one that hasn't gone through some form of management restructure. And indeed, many of the larger clients, many of the larger corporates, seem to be on a continual journey of reorganisation. For many, the change of structure and operations has led to them re examining, if their agencies are now fit for purpose. So have a think, are you really fit for your clients purpose? So consequently, is perhaps no surprise that we're seeing in many service categories, a pitch frenzy with, as I said earlier, many agencies struggling to actually keep up with how many opportunities they have to pitch. So with this point, and the other points we're gonna make, there are two key things we'd urge you to actually think about. Simply ask yourself, 'How have your clients changed?' And if so, take a hard look at if you need to restructure the way you work with them. And secondly, confirm on a regular basis, what your clients expectations of you are, and, importantly, how you're performing against those expectations. The greatest mistake you can make is to assume your clients expectations of you have changed the same. Sorry. Let me say that, again, the biggest mistake you can make is assuming that your clients expectations of you have stayed the same. Carey.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey&nbsp; </strong>07:04<br><br></div><div>I couldn't agree more. In fact, just finishing on that point about what Simon said, you know, assuming your expectations are the same as one thing, but what clients tell us,<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>between 61 and 63%, depending on what year you're in, of our clients we speak to say that their agency has never asked them what their expectations of them are. So I'll speak to them and say, if you're asking what your client, what they want from you, you're ahead of the pack. And it's in this whole era of expectations that again, we got a interesting development over the last 12 months, when we sit down and talk to our clients, when we do deep, in depth interviews, a deep dive into this, first thing we do is we ask the client company about their expectations of their service provider, specifically, their agency. And one of the things we noticed last year was that the proportion of those people, the client, individuals with whom we spoke, who said that agility, flexibility, being able to flex was one of their expectations of the agency, had grown enormously.&nbsp;<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>So if you look back to 2019, for example, then that's been there, but it was probably, it at was at a level of around 30%. And by third quarter in 2020, that number had risen to 76%. So 76% of clients were saying to us that what they were looking for was an agency that was nimble, agile, and able to flex given the levels of uncertainty that were existing in the marketplace. In fact, one grocery retailer told us that their agency had suffered because the holding company had put in place a rule about homeworking and the the agency themselves took about three weeks to get their act together. But what that bred there was a spirit of innovation to the point where eventually the agency got itself sorted. And in fact just didn't just recover but because of the effort it went to, to innovate, actually strengthened it's relationships with this particular client, because if your grocery client and your agency can't get the answer quick enough, boy, you're going to suffer, right? But the agency got around it. They look for innovative ways of doing it, and they sorted it. So the point about this, I think is to say, if you're working with a client, when was the last time you asked them about their changing priorities, speak to them about their changing priorities? Think about how well you're structured to help them deal with those priorities and those changes, and go to the client with your suggestions before they come to you with the questions.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>10:23<br><br></div><div>Okay, I just want to pick up on a couple of points you've said so far, particularly for the role of account manager that's listening to this. Because I think this provides a bit of a checklist, doesn't it, of things to do? Like, are we asking our clients for their expectations? You know, asking the question like, 'For you to come back to me in six months time and tell me this has been the best experience ever', or, 'I'm so glad we chose you as a partner what needs to have happened?' and then being quiet and letting them fill the gap? That's the first thing. The second thing to your point Simon, I think about the changing corporate structure, why is that key now, because for example, I've come across agencies where there has been a CEO change, or there has been a reorganisation at the top level. And that filters down to the supplier relationships. And it could be that you're, however good you've been, you might get given an RFI to fill in again. So you have to re pitch the business, which is fine and dandy if that particular client is less than, say, 20% of your overall revenue. But if it's anything greater then that presents a massive risk to the business. So I think this is great tip so far. The thing about nimbleness Carey, I just wanted to pick up, can you give me any examples of perhaps agencies that haven't been able to respond? Well, I mean, we talked about the working from home policy that maybe was put out there too quickly. Any other examples of agencies where they're not being nimble enough?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>11:56<br><br></div><div>Can I jump in, because literally,<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>I was speaking to a client a couple of days ago about this and one particular agency has its workload meeting on a Wednesday. And apparently, the account manager from the agency said, 'Well, I'm going to have to wait until we have the workload meeting in a couple of days time until I can get back to you, and tell you when you can have the piece of work'. Now, this caused major, major problems with that client because the client needed the work really within 48 hours not to have to wait 48 hours until he he could be told when he actually got it. But also, I think this also raises something that occasionally comes up but Carey and I know, it's very, very true. The quality of an account manager, the quality of an accounts director, is partly judged by clients in that their ability to actually short circuit agency internal processes, that when something is urgent or needed very, very quickly, to be able to bend the rules and to actually get that work done. And what clients don't want to do, rather like this particular agency I've just talked about, is feel that they are in a set process that they have to abide by when things are really, really urgent. I would also add that a great account manager, a great account director, actually knows how their clients work, how they think, how they plan. And so lots of examples of non agility are also related in many cases to the agency, not thinking one step ahead. What is likely to be coming down the line from the client? And can we be preparing for that?<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey&nbsp; </strong>13:57<br><br></div><div>I absolutely agree entirely with that. And I want to build on that one. Flexibility is not just about what you do, it's about the process right. And so, we recently sent interviews for an agency whose clients, at the bottom of this agency is that they've got a financial system of one size fits all. I work with them in my particular country and I don't benefit from working, I don't benefit from local rates when I want to adapt a piece of internationally developed work. So what that does is I have to pay huge amounts of money for this creative work, which upsets the relative percentage that I'm allowed to spend media versus production. So my business is completely compromised by the fact that they won't be more flexible in terms of the pricing. And to build on Simon's point, another interview that I did, the guy said essentially terrific at operationally. But the other agency with whom they work, was far better at anticipating problems. And if you anticipate problems and go to the client with a solution, before the problem actually develops and manifest itself, and boy, you're on the front foot and the client's on the front foot. So anticipate and be flexible with your financial structures where you need to be.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>15:34<br><br></div><div>I love that.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>15:35<br><br></div><div>And can I just add one build on this? Is that with the intensity of work,<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>with the intensity of deliverables and the problems associated with remote working, one of the casualties of this are regular post project reviews. What we're seeing is they're being sacrificed, just in the charge to get everything done. If you are holding regular post project reviews, to look at what's worked and why it's worked, particularly in terms of process, but also to look at where problems have occurred, and what the agency can be doing to prevent those problems occurring again, one of which may be forward planning, you will have a much, much, much better client relationship.<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>16:24<br><br></div><div>And it's also another excuse to get in front of the client to build that relationship, isn't it? A post product project review, you could argue that it's less for the client and more for the agency. But it's so valuable. We're getting the feedback from the client so we're being able to anticipate anything that goes wrong, like Carey's point and also, it's our chance to build upon that relationship, and also anticipate future problems, because inevitably, that post project review will lead on to a future focus conversation about what's next. The other thing that you said, Carey there, which I think is again was super key, is defining value for your client from the outset. You know, what does value mean to you? Because it will mean something different. So this is all fantastic. So, we've talked about 'Is your agency fit for purpose?' we've talked about 'Is the agency nimble enough?' The third theme coming out of this report was, 'Are you communicating in the best way?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>17:30<br><br></div><div>I think everybody listening to this will have seen, and let's say suffered from the explosion in Zoom, Teams, Bluejeans, whatever, video meetings and I suppose in the absence of being able to meet in person, it was inevitable that people switched to wanting to have virtual face time. However, the consequences have been that many managers, both on the agency and the client side, are spending huge amounts of their time on calls, and really suffering real fatigue. Many enterprise clients and their service providers are saying to us, that they believe that this has resulted in just frankly, too many meetings. And there's almost a paralysis about attending meetings versus getting work done. And it's interesting that we've seen a growing number of companies such as Citigroup, I think is one, HSBC certainly another, starting to come to trial the concept of Zoom free Fridays. I don't know whether it's going to work or not, but I think it's probably a step in the right direction. And you know, furthermore, at the start of this year, we ran a number of our relationship radar online surveys where we asked about clients intentions of going back to their offices, and also visiting their agencies. What was fascinating was by the end of February, the results were showing that 69%, nearly 70% of clients envisage going to their office this year, only three days a week or less. And 9% saying that they were going to work permanently from home. Furthermore, when asked about their anticipated intentions of visiting their agencies, approximately a third said it was too early to say. Fair enough. A third though, said it was unlikely they'd want to travel. And the other third said that they would travel, but certainly a lot less. Now interestingly, those people that said that they would travel but maybe a lot less, said they'd also like the ability to work and to meet their other colleagues in their agencies offices. Now, I think to be fair, that was the research we did in February. We sense since February, there might be a little more optimism about travelling to meetings. Nonetheless though, we're seeing agencies downsizing their office space, and reconfiguring their offices to make them more collaborative spaces. And we're also seeing a number of agencies who are hedging their bets. We know of a number who have given up long term leases and move to rented shorter term, flexible office spaces. And they're encouraging longer term working from their staff. So it's a mixture. This is a huge degree of volatility we're seeing. So, in terms of action, what would we recommend out of this? Well,<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>firstly, don't assume that everybody wants a Zoom call. Secondly, we'd suggest it's worth resetting with your clients, asking them what communication methods they prefer. And indeed, if you're going to have those Teams and video type calls, reevaluating just how many people do you really need on that call. And thirdly, recognise that in person meetings, certainly for the immediate future, are now a precious commodity. Particularly within marketing services. Face to face meetings have been absolutely crucial to establish and maintaining enduring business relationships. And clearly there will be opportunities, sorry, clearly that there will be less opportunities to meet your clients in person, certainly over the next year. So therefore, you need to think carefully about how your agency and you can get to meet your client in person, be it creating those collaborative working spaces that clients will want to safely visit, workspaces for them to actually hot desk from and also importantly, if you're going to do all of that, have a think about when those clients are going to be in the office and make sure that you're in the office on the same day with them. Even if you haven't got a meeting. Key message is face to face meetings are precious.<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>22:06<br><br></div><div>Such great advice there. Just a couple of points I wanted to kind of pick up on. I think a lot of this for an agency account manager that might be listening to this thinking how do I incorporate all these questions and make sure I cover all of this? What we're talking about is having a really thorough onboarding checklist, isn't it? Have I asked what the value the client wants to see from me? Have I asked, what's the best way for you and me to communicate? I had an example of an account manager the other day that said, I can't get hold on my client. I actually wrote a post on LinkedIn about it. And I said, 'So what have you done so far?' And he said, 'I've sent three emails'. And I said, 'Have you have you called?' 'No, no, they don't pick up the phone anyway'. 'Okay, fair enough. What else have you tried? Have you tried WhatsApp? Have you tried a video message? Have you tried calling someone else in the client organisation?' But I think a lot of account managers sometimes are a bit stuck in the email, just going to keep emailing. So in that instance, Simon, for example, during the onboarding process, you could ask in an emergency, let's discuss, which is the best communication vehicle for you? What would suit you? What times of the day? How is it best? And the other thing I wanted to ask you actually was, which came up in a conversation today about this face to face with clients. It's at a premium you suggested, a collaborative office space, which I think brilliant clients are showing an interest in that. What's your view on corporate entertainment? You know, is it too early to say? Are you seeing any trends? What are agencies kind of doing?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>23:47<br><br></div><div>Okay, can I just pick up on probably three points from what you just said. I'll just answer the last one first. We are seeing only very limited amount of corporate entertainment. And those tend to be outside the marketing services sector. I think one needs, certainly until let's say the end of September, to be very, very, very careful about this. There will be clients that would like, and I would include corporate entertainment, as much as going down the pub for a drink or going out for a meal. I think one needs to be very, very careful about this in the near, certainly in the near future. In terms of meeting clients face to face, it's going to be well over a year since most of the people listening to this will have had face to face meetings with their clients. I'm a great, and I know Carey is as well, a great believer in first impressions. It's almost a chance for a new first impression. And what I mean by that is that meetings run like clockwork, there are agendas, all the points have been properly prepped. Don't just treat it as 'Hello, it's nice to actually see you again and let's carry on'. There is an opportunity to actually reset. And to that point, Jenny, you talked about the onboarding process. And we've got a number of clients that have good relationships with new clients that they've won during the pandemic. But even they recognise they're not as close as they actually should be. And that has been a challenge for those agencies. But also, when you were talking about onboarding Jenny, it actually made me think of actually, what we're talking about here is reboarding. Asking clients what their expectations are. Asking about flexibility. Actually resetting a whole number of things with your clients, as you get back into pseudo normal working.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>25:54<br><br></div><div>I can see a Simon Rhind-Tutt blog post coming up!<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>25:59<br><br></div><div>Yeah, maybe. And the final thing was, maybe Jenny, Carey you and I could collaborate, and maybe the listeners could also add to it, but actually, I think it would be interesting if we put our heads together, and actually drew up a list of the things you can do if you can't get hold of your client. Because I just wonder how many ideas we would actually have.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>26:23<br><br></div><div>A great idea. I love it. And Carey, did you want to add anything to the theme of communication? Before we move on?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey&nbsp; </strong>26:31<br><br></div><div>I mean, it's interesting, isn't it? You know that if you talk about face to face communication right,now what happened last week in Carbis Bay, G7 alll met face to face. And I think, I may be wrong, but I think Trudeau said it was one of the most productive G7 conferences he's ever been to. The power of meeting people when you can do it in the right way.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon&nbsp; </strong>26:54<br><br></div><div>Well, I don't want to date this cast, but was speaking and recording this the day after Joe Biden met President Putin. And one of the things that Biden said last night, which we would absolutely agree with. 'There is no substitute for actually meeting somebody in person'.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>27:18<br><br></div><div>Without a doubt, without a doubt.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2021 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/98npyx28.mp3" length="31309761" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/7f23b8a0-d7ec-11eb-bc6e-d71f5c2d0c4e/7f23ba00-d7ec-11eb-8d04-25cbddbadc70.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>1565</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 37. This is part one of a two part interview with Simon Rhind-Tutt and Carey Evans from Relationship Audits and Management. They've put together a report summarising what clients are telling them about agencies.

They've taken this data from hundreds of interviews that they've conducted with clients over the last year. There are six themes in total, and they talk us through each theme, share some insights, share some quotes from clients, and then, most importantly, what they believe agencies need to do about it. What actions do we need to take?

Part one covers three key themes:

Is your agency fit for purpose?
Are you nimble enough?
Are you communicating in the best way?

I would urge you to tune in to the part two, next week where we're going to follow the theme and cover three more topics - are you sharing learnings from other clients; are you better or worse at tech; and did you realise that what drives perception of value for money has changed.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 37. This is part one of a two part interview with Simon Rhind-Tutt and Carey Evans from Relationship Audits and Management. They've put together a report summarising what clients are telling them about agencies.

They've taken this data from hundreds of interviews that they've conducted with clients over the last year. There are six themes in total, and they talk us through each theme, share some insights, share some quotes from clients, and then, most importantly, what they believe agencies need to do about it. What actions do we need to take?

Part one covers three key themes:

Is your agency fit for purpose?
Are you nimble enough?
Are you communicating in the best way?

I would urge you to tune in to the part two, next week where we're going to follow the theme and cover three more topics - are you sharing learnings from other clients; are you better or worse at tech; and did you realise that what drives perception of value for money has changed.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to develop your personal brand for agency leaders with Steve Richards and Ryan O’Keeffe</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/pnlyw708</link>
      <itunes:title>How to develop your personal brand for agency leaders with Steve Richards and Ryan O’Keeffe</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>36</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">x0lr38q0</guid>
      <description>Episode 36 is all about personal branding. I spoke to experts in this area, Ryan O'Keeffe, and Steve Richards from Jago. They work with entrepreneurs, business leaders and employees and they've done a lot of work with agencies and agency owners particularly. They share some really powerful insights and tips, not only how personal branding works for agency owners, but also how it can benefit agency account managers. We cover:

What is personal branding?
Why is it important to pay attention to your personal brand
The impact of focusing time on your personal brand
Where to start with personal branding.

They also shared some really insightful examples of how it can transform your agency business. I hope like me, you come away inspired by this episode and with some 'aha' moments. I would highly recommend you follow Steven and Richard on LinkedIn. They share some brilliant content and they really are super, super guys.

A quick reminder, if you are an agency account manager and you're listening to this, you'll find lots of resources here on my website at www.accountmanagementskills.com. There's a quiz you can take on the Home page in which you evaluate how good you are at developing client business. You can also sign up for my newsletter, where I share weekly tips and podcast episodes and information specifically for the agency world.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:<br></strong><br></div><div>Jenny 00:03<br>So today, I'm really thrilled to have had the opportunity of speaking to both <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-richards-/">Steve Richards </a>and <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-okeeffe/">Ryan O'Keeffe</a>. Their agency is called <a href="http://www.wearejago.com">Jago</a>. And it's all about personal branding, they're B Corp as well, which I would love to ask them about as well. But today, the reason I've invited them on is, A. I don't know a lot about personal branding, from a professional point of view, so I'm really keen to pick their brains, but also most importantly, how this relates to both agency leaders and account managers. So before I carry on, can I hand over to either one of you, just to give me a bit of background on who you are, why you started Jago and what actually Jago is and how you help?<br><br></div><div>Ryan 00:48<br>You take the show, Steve.<br><br></div><div>Steve 00:51<br>So I'm an anthropologist with a passion for storytelling, and my heart is really around helping people to realise that they've got an important story to tell. And by putting themselves stepping up and stepping out that they will create more opportunities to develop more meaningful relationships and commercial opportunities. So for us,<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>we like to ask people to imagine determining their own reputation, and building trust at scale. And that's what we're here to do really is to help people to find out who their real true self is. Gain a sense of direction, and purpose and confidence and clarity in who they are, and what value that they bring. And it's amazing how many people we work with don't know how to clearly articulate their strengths. And it's actually your strengths is where your value is and that's what you trade off. So if you don't know your strengths, and you're not really clear on what commercial value you bring, what value you bring. And so we do a lot of work, helping people come to that realisation and then supporting them to put themselves out there.<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>Jenny 02:24<br>It's really inspiring Steve, to hear you describe it in that way. I love it. Because I mean, what I didn't mention at the begining is I've been following you guys for a long time. First of all, your content is phenomenal. So it's clear that you're dedicated to this area. But also, it's how people talk about you. Like I'm working with a couple of agencies that you also are working with, and they just sing your praises. And they use the word transformational. So I'm really keen to sort of dive into that. And actually, on that point, when I visited your website, Ryan, I looked at your values. That was one of the really things that stood out to me. Can you explain what your company values are and why you chose that to be so?<br><br></div><div>Ryan 03:06<br>Absolutely. We were at a crossroads of the business, when was it three or four years ago, and we were trying to do everything, as a full service agency. And through some personal issues, and quite significant health issues with family and everything else, we kind of drew a line in the sand and said, what are we doing here? You know, what's our purpose? And what do we want to align to? And so for us, one of the major game changes was building our values. Building our values to say, how do we expect ourselves to behave? And what do we expect our people to behave like? Because that underpinned all of our conversations, all of our reviews, all of our interactions with others. And, even Steve and I have had a conversation at times and said, does that align to our values, actually are we behaving in the right way? So, even Steve and I, as the leaders and co founders, we hold each other accountable. So yeah, our number one value is people first. And interesting enough, we had that value even before we started to work with the personal branding. So it's like, we got drawn into that every time we were working with our clients, even though we were working with their brands per se, rather than the personal branding. It was always the people that that had our hearts we're always people promoter and so for us, that's been our focus, our number one value when it comes to service, what we offer, how we act, how we behave.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 04:39<br>There's a golden nugget right there actually, in what you've said, because anyone listening to this, who perhaps haven't formed their values, or maybe they're thinking, you know, we've got values, but they're kind of written on a wall somewhere that we don't even look at anymore. The questions you just asked, how do we expect ourselves to behave? I think that's fantastic. And as you said, it kind of creates this benchmark for future actions and activities from the company doesn't it?<br><br></div><div>Ryan 05:03<br>Absolutely. Like, even when I worked in the big corporate before I set up my own business. One of the things even before developing my awareness on how I behave, and enhancing the consciousness around behaviour and how it plays out and how it affects our interactions with others, just a simple thought around how I want people to feel when they speak to me, I never wanted people to feel negative after speaking to me. I've never joined the fag breaks where everyone was slating the management and everything else, because that just wasn't me. And I knew that I was almost seen as the outsider at times, because I wouldn't get involved with those negative conversations. And that's not to say I didn't have negative thoughts and wouldn't want to do things differently. But actually, the difference between me wasting energy on those thoughts and bringing people down potentially with my negative conversations wasn't going to serve me. And so I just wanted to go through the the corporate world knowing that actually, I could leave a positive impact through the conversations that I would have. And so that's where the sort of the first reflections really around behaviour and how actually this thing that I was doing was helping me progress within this larger business.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 06:22<br>It's so super important what you've just described, isn't it? That's real leadership quality, how you affect other people, how people feel when they've had that interaction with you. And to that point, Steve, if there's someone listening, thinking, okay, so I can see it's about values, perhaps leadership? How would you define personal branding for someone that maybe hasn't paid any attention to personal branding before?<br><br></div><div>Steve 06:44<br>So in one sentence is like the intersection of perception and reality? So, for example, tell Jenny about the story of one of our clients, that was questioning my suitability for for the company.<br><br></div><div>Ryan 07:07<br>Steve's background is in the third sector, he's worked in the charity world for most of his life. And he's made the unusual move from that sector to the corporate world. Usually, its corporate, had enough of that and will go back into the third sector. So Steve came and joined Jago full time, and one of our clients at the time saw a video that Steve had done in the early days. And he kind of said to me, oh, I'm not sure that guy's right for your brand, not sure he quite looks the part or not sure he fits your brand. I was like, Whoa, okay, cheeky, take a pause. And obviously, me being me, I protect Steve, don't judge a book by its cover. And if you've got those own judgments, that's because of you not because of him, and I intentionally sent Steve over to work with him in Amsterdam.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 08:02<br>Brilliant.<br><br></div><div>Ryan 08:03<br>And Steve went over there. And what happened, as I thought, he would see Steve's value, he would get past what he thought wasn't the right look and feel for our business. And really felt the quality that Steve could add in terms of his thinking, and execution, and they became very connected. And I think his opinion changed with that, because that's what we do, we change people's perception. And Steve done that. So kudos to him.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 08:32<br>No doubt about that. Steve, how did you feel when you were going into that interaction, you got to meet that guy for the first time?<br><br></div><div>Steve 08:37<br>It's a challenge, right, that come across by having dreadlocks and living with that style for many, many a year, that you're going to get different perceptions. And people are going to make judgments. It's a very natural thing to do. Judge not and be not the judge. I mean, it's like you, I don't hold it against people, it's a challenge to rise up to but actually having a personal brand activated out there in the public domain, it means I can determine my own reputation. I've got a personal branded website. I'm putting out content every day. That means that people can think what they want, but actually when they start to look deeper, and they go into my LinkedIn profile, they see my recommendations and the high calibre people that are backing me, all of those preconceptions where it's like, who's this long haired hippie in the commercial space, or you know, this kind of flip flop wearing humanitarian worker or, smokes weed all day or whatever that is, I can't leave it up for other people to make their opinion or thinking about me and that's what I mean is, actually you can determine your own reputation. And I was able to build trust and switch the narrative. I personally love that because it's disrupting how people are thinking. It's challenging, it's saying it's actually changing how people think and how people behave. And that's what we mean in terms of transformation, whether it's with our clients, or whether it's with our audience of people that we're not working with yet. We all play a role, I suppose we all have value to bring. And it's very easy to box people off or dismiss people. And one of the things that like frustrates us most is seeing amazing people go under the radar. And so many people are like, there's various things that we've discovered hold people back, but recently, I put a poll out. And it was well responded to. And<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>the number one thing people said were holding them back from putting themselves out there was fear of judgement. And a lot of the time, this battlefield is in the mind, and it's perceived and not necessarily real. And so we meet amazing leaders that are hidden within their company brands that are almost like paralysed by fear. Or it could be like, self doubt, or low self regard. And that's why we do emotional intelligence a lot. Because, actually, and we start off with doing development, because sometimes we need to get to the point where we're ready to put ourselves out there. And there's a gap to close for a lot of people. And a lot of the time, it's the story they tell themselves, it's not necessarily the reality. And so when we can then get people on the radar, showing their gifts and talent, creating value for their audiences, and it generating new business for them, that's where we get our big excitement.<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>Jenny 12:16<br>And particularly, I suppose, if people are resistant at the beginning, and they say, I've got this fear of people judging me. So you say that, because I was thinking about that fear. And I think I don't know whether I'm just saying, speaking for myself here but I've got that as well. And I think a lot of people must have that. So you've mentioned emotion that you work on the emotional intelligence, do you feel that that exploration helps them to overcome that particular fear?<br><br></div><div>Ryan 12:41<br>I think it's a combination of things. I think that's one part of it. I think I can bring balance to certain emotions and give you the impetus to give something a go. Just going back to what Steve was saying around, going under the radar, I think it's circumstantial as well because we can all change in different roles. So take an account manager, they could be in one business, and they could be thriving. And they could join a new business and feel like they're the newbie and not recognised and suddenly the fear and the self doubt creeps in. And suddenly, they might not be performing as they used to. I'll give you a real example of that, Jenny. I worked in the corporate world for 12 years as an account manager at Yellow Pages. Yes. Don't ask me any tips or hints because it was a long time ago, but I'll try. But I was very successful, went from selling ads at £79 when I first started to looking after the largest portfolio, and at the time, it was one of the largest marketing companies in the UK pre Google. But when I left the business and set up my own company overnight, I felt different. Imposter syndrome kicked in, negative self talk kicked in, I wasn't known by anyone, I had no network, had no recognition. And the big corporate had all these people recognise me as the top player. And that felt good because there was a sense of value that I was bringing to them. And then when I've set up my businesses, like, I'm nobody, no one knows me. So I had to work hard again, to build up that reputation that I once had. And suddenly you question your value, your skills, your strengths. And so you really have to draw upon your resilience to be mindful that actually I can get back to that place. I can get to the place where I feel like I can arrive and add value to the people that I work with and serve. So yeah, going back to eradicating or helping with the confidence and imposter syndrome, I think most people suffer it to a certain degree, right? If you're an entrepreneur or you're a successful person, you want to deliver excellence and an element of perfectionism creeps in to that and so for me, it was about that always trying to be the best and at the top of my game, and so therefore anything less than that is going to feel like unsettling. So even now on this call, slightly nervous if I'm honest if the audience are looking, and that's cool. Other people might be looking at it and going, those guys are never gonna get nervous. So I want people to know, however much you do it, there can always be some element of nerves and thinking towards what you're about to do, whether it's public speaking, a podcast, or going into a client meeting. Understanding your value, your strengths, knowing what they really are, because you've assessed them, you've developed them, the truth of your makeup and your identity and your character in your gifts and talents, through the assessments we do with strengths and introspection about going back and looking at your life and what makes you tick and bringing out some of those key points that give you that strength and essence that people know you for and remember you for, as well as the emotional intelligence to bring balance to that and consistency, can really help the fog start to disappear when it comes to those nerves and barriers to stepping up and putting yourself out there.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 16:13<br>Lovely Ryan, lovely. I love how you both go so deep and so insightful on things because I think a lot of people listening, maybe if they're making a transition themselves out of a job, and they're going to set up on their own for example. I agree with you and I love publicists, you're very much defined by what's on your business card, aren't you? Because you have this reputation, and you have people talking to you because of what you're doing rather than who you are. So I think a lot of people listening, if they've ever done that, can identify with exactly what you're saying. I think that's so spot on. So, obviously one of the things holding us back, as we've said, is this fear of being judged by others. What other resistances do you encounter from people, when you start talking to them about personal branding?<br><br></div><div>Steve 17:00<br>So for some people, it's feeling like they've not got anything of value to say or not being clear on what to say. Some people don't fully understand what personal branding really is, and what sort of commercial opportunities it can bring. So they're not really getting what the motivation is for doing it. Sometimes people are drawing comparisons feeling like inadequate or not being able to live up to the standards of like commercial successful brands, or they compare themselves like apples and pears against people like, I don't know, thinking that personal branding is around being an influencer or something like this. I would say personal branding is about having influence, but it's not a drive to become a celebrity and sell their posts for like loads of dollars or anything like that. And what are the other reasons? Not having a budget line. Ryan, maybe you can talk about that because that's a big one because it's fairly new, right to a lot of businesses?<br><br></div><div>Ryan 18:19<br>Sure. Look, putting the word personal in front of everything kind of takes that budget and focus away from the corporate brand. So if you've got a couple of founders and one wants to put investment into the personal brand, there's some conflict often in terms of, where are you going to find that budget from? Hang about why are you doing it not me and so we try to reset that and reframe it to say,the term we call it is personal brand, but actually, it's going to help support your branding, your company, your marketing, it should be part of your marketing budget now. You should be putting a percentage of your marketing budget towards your own activity and activation and development to put yourself out there because we know that people buy from people.<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>We know when we ask the question, what brings in the most business to this agency? The founders, nine times out of 10. So would it be a good investment to scale that and to generate more conversations, okay, how we're going to do it? We're going to do it by promoting you, and adding value, get you to promote yourself in a way that feels authentic, truthful, honest, and attract those people that want to work with you. And so that's the justification around budget. It shouldn't be seen now as a brand new budget line. Although if that's the case, that's fine. But actually the resistance around budget should be answered with, it needs to come out your marketing budget, to factor in a percentage of that.<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>Jenny 19:55<br>Didn't even think about that. So that's a really good point. So fear of things that I'm going to say because I don't have anything to say, fear of being judged, not having the budget. What other reasons do people think that personal branding isn't perhaps a priority for them?<br><br></div><div>Ryan 20:12<br>Look, some people just don't want the feeling of trying to be a celebrity, or feeling like their mates are gonna think they're stupid for stepping up and putting content out there. We've got clients that actually said, Oh, I'm scared of what my mates are gonna say, you know, what are they gonna say when I put out a piece of content or put out a video? I'm like, well, that's why 99% of people don't do it. But the ones who step up and step over the line, they're the ones that usually receive the rewards, which is a commercial gain, and an opportunity to influence people. And so for us, we can overcome that with understanding the link between that and what they do, what their responsibilities are, as a leader for their business. And we believe it is a responsibility for every leader to be out there, spreading the vision of their company.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 21:06<br>And like you said Ryan, not just to attract potential clients, but also employees, because they'll get a flavour for what the culture is of stuff. And so we talked about leaders, and it kind of makes total sense for leaders. What about the staff? Particularly because I've got a lot of account managers that are listening. You're an employee, should they be paying attention to personal branding?<br><br></div><div>Steve 21:29<br>100%, 100%. If you look at the youth of today, the under 25s, most of them have got a personal brand. They are way ahead, because they're going to blow people sort of our age, 40 plus out of the water soon, you know. So there is an argument to say that if you don't shape up and wise up quickly to this, you're going to be blown away, because the whole recruitment is changing right.<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>Recruitment's becoming more like marketing. And one of the things that will attract talent into your businesses, if you have like an employee branding programme, and actually, the fastest growing businesses, a large percentage of them, have like employee branding as official programmes. Employee branding is basically personal branding for the employees where they are pushing out the company's marketing and brand through their own social channels, because they get 560% more engagement than the company channels. So actually, if you're an account manager, it makes sense for you to be invested in your personal brand for your career opportunities going forward, but also for maintaining those relationships. Because if you're on LinkedIn, or wherever, putting out content and your clients are following you on LinkedIn, you're front of their mind, and it helps to scale trust faster and quicker, and build stronger relationships, deeper and more meaningful relationships with your clients, because they're not just having account management calls, they're seeing you in between the calls, and totally buying into you and the value that you bring.<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>Jenny 23:22<br>I feel like clapping right now, just so you know, because I've been banging on about this for so long. And I want to know from you because you talk about the younger generation, I totally get that, like they're so much more proficient online, they're taking selfies left, right and centre, which was never part of our background when I was growing up. So there's less of a barrier I feel. So why do I still see that the account managers don't pay a lot of attention to their online personal branding? Are you seeing something different that I'm perhaps not seeing?<br><br></div><div>Steve 23:59<br>Let me think about that question. So are you saying some of the account managers are not stepping up to build their personal brands?<br><br></div><div>Jenny 24:08<br>Yeah, not really paying attention. I mean, I suppose in fairness, I say to account managers, if your clients for example, if your existing clients, if you're responsible for growing existing business and your clients are online, and they're pretty active, it makes total sense for you to be online, update your profile as a minimum, just so they know who they're dealing with, and also follow what they're doing and interact with them. It's an opportunity to kind of continue that relationship in between projects. But I still see, I don't know whether it's resistance so much as not just not paying attention to it or not putting the energy there, so I was just interested from the work that you've done with other companies, where there perhaps is an employee programme in place, do you encounter any resistance from the employees, from the staff or what kinds of conversations do you have with them about stepping up a little bit?<br><br></div><div>Ryan 24:59<br>Let me let me take the first bit if I may, and connect it with the real world that I know from account management. First of all, everyone has a brand, whether they like it or not. You've seen in big companies there'll be a group of people or management team will think a certain way about an account manager - she's brilliant. Look at the clients, they absolutely love her, any new leads that come into the business, please give it to this person, because we can guarantee they are going to love the experience. Or they'll be someone else where, oh, they're constant letting someone down, they're not stepping up, or whatever it might be. Or they're slightly quieter, but they're brilliant at the detail the clients love the detail. So we'll have an essence of people's behaviour and what we feel about them already. They might not be activating it as in the terms that we think about, but actually within that business, the account manager, they'll have a brand and their clients will feel a certain way about them. And even in the early days of my account management career, when social media wasn't that big, and Facebook was just coming out, I would create a Facebook and I would connect with my clients and Facebook. Why? Because I wanted them to see that I was pretty consistent when they met me in my personal life. That's me. And I felt that that gave me the upper hand because they could see that I wasn't this raving lunatic at the weekends, versus who I was. And that was okay. I wanted them to see some of my fun side. But actually that built more trust, that they got an insight into my personal life, my personality, not just the transactions through what I was there to do, which was to to offer them the services that we were there to sell them at the time. So everyone has a brand. I think at the moment, there's a a big question around employee branding, and the risks involved with that. I think some employees are nervous about that, because they can control what they say but if they're leaders who like control, and they're managers who want to control everything, then there's a big question around risk and risk to the corporate brand if they let their employees loose on social media. I would reverse that, I would say if you empower your team, if you educate them, train them, give them the skills, develop their emotional intelligence, make sure that they understand what they say, and the impact that it's gonna have on both them and the business that they serve, then there's a huge opportunity to draw more people into that organisation, awareness of the business and therefore empower that individual and give them the autonomy to create that personal relationship, even though they might work for a bigger brand.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 27:46<br>That's just so genius, really, isn't it? Because they are mini ambassadors, which is going to spread the word even further. Fantastic. I'm so glad you're saying this, because it really supports what I've been saying for a while, but I haven't been able to articulate it in the same way. So Steve, tell me, what are some of the steps that you start to follow when you work with people from the outset on their personal brand? You've mentioned a few, the emotional intelligence testing, how do you start?<br><br></div><div>Steve 28:17<br>We start with an assessment. So we've got a personal brand health check that we've put on our, we've both got personal websites. And interestingly, when we post our content, we often put it in our comments. And we drive people to our personal sites more than our company site, actually, which is quite interesting that they link off into our company sites. But on all of our sites, we have a health check. And the reason why we put that there is we want to have a clear understanding about where people are currently strong and where there needs to be improvement. And it's remarkable, because a lot of people they rate themselves at less than 40% on on our health check. And so that's really useful, because then we can start to understand what needs to happen to close the gap. But we don't encourage people to be in a rush to nowhere. And so we're big on having strategic intent. And so we do, if you like, it's more like really akin to leadership development. So coming back to that point around budgets, like we see leveraging people's budgets around development in order to do the development work with us, which helps them in their communication skills, but also within their own understanding of what value that they have to bring. So once they do the assessment, we have a programme called Deeply Human and it's DPLY like it's missing the Es. So the concept behind that sub brand is to search for what's missing. And so we dig deep with people in the beginning through development. And we have three modules, which is basically around creating an identity platform. And that's in a confidential, very personal, what we go through, but the amazing thing about creating an identity platform is you use it as a resource pool, to do storytelling fun, because you get loads of idea starters for content. So it generates, like, a lot of stories. And some of that just helps people to work through some personal stuff for themselves, which they don't use for, if you like, activate in their personal brand, and then other elements, it starts to become clear on positioning. So going through that identity platform. Because coming back to another objection, some people don't want to do personal branding, because they feel it's about manufacturing something, where is what we believe is being is revealing true self and those elements around your beliefs, your outlook, your values, your competence, all the things that the people that love you Jenny, that know you and like you for, and love you for, it's about packaging that up and putting it out there so people can feel the same way. And so we get to the heart of that through doing this development stage. And then we we have something called a Pathfinder, which is really about nailing your positioning, and then coming up with with a critical pathway of recommendations to say, here are your gaps. If you do X, Y, Z then this is going to help get you into a place where you're going to start scaling, being known, liked and trusted. And that's where the ROA starts coming in. Because, you know, you start doing more speaking gigs, you might start doing a podcast, write a book, whatever it is, there's many different things that you can do. And then it comes to subscriptions, which is the storytelling part, the activation, what are we going to do now going forward? You've done your development, you're really clear on who you are and what you have to offer, you've got your strategy, so you know where you're going, now is about activating that. And that's an ongoing process. And it's a mixture of formats of supporting people with their writing, and supporting people with their video content. And that might be as doing professional filming of people, or it might be as training people how to take amazing video themselves. And then we do post production for them. So it's a real end to end, very methodical, research based, very thorough process. And people have different start points, some people have already written books and already have an established podcast. So it depends where people are in their journey, but they will go through development, they will go through strategy, and they will go through storytelling.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 33:37<br>It's just sounds so brilliant, it's so exciting, and so comprehensive. I'm sure anyone listening to this is thinking, wow, you know I would defy anyone not to want to go through that kind of process. Because you're not forcing anyone to do anything are you? I mean whatever the execution is, in the end, it's down to how they feel. But I love that you go so deep, and understanding, you know, the real person inside and their history is just very, very inspiring. So, to that point, can you share some stories, maybe of some of the biggest transformations you've seen? Perhaps, I don't know, examples of people that are pretty resistant at the beginning or, you know, or very small. And then yeah, just give us a flavour of some people that you've worked with.<br><br></div><div>Ryan 34:22<br>I'll take one. Not sure if I can give names. Maybe I can, maybe I won't. We've got one client and they run a big digital marketing agency. And we met them at the start of lockdown last year. And he said to us boys, I'm going to go with the development but I'm never going to do video. So let's let's not go there. After we finished the development, probably three months later started to work with him on his storytelling. He started to give the video work a go. Start to say okay, let's give the video a go and we were like really encouraging him and he was going for it. And then he was producing more and more videos, more and more videos. Brilliant. And they start publishing them and getting engagement and getting traction. And a couple of weeks ago, he sent us a message. And he said, guys, I just want to thank you for all of the inspiration, training, development, encouragement, because I've just been asked to do a full proposal for my dream client. And I've submitted the proposal. But over and above that, I've sent them a video of why I think our agency is the best agency and the best fit for your company. And I thought, wow, how courageous is that? And tenacious, and guess what? He won the business. So for us, that was like, we've jumped out of our seats, and we were throwing our arms up in the air, because for us, not only did he win his dream client, but to see the transformational journey that they that guy went on, and he said to himself, I'll never do it. But then through process, through understanding, through practice, reflection and through the confidence that he built, it just shows you what can be done with the power of the mind and some encouragement with others. So we are super pleased with that outcome. And he done all the work, he had the choice whether he wanted to step up or not, we just done the part that we were there to play, which is to support him in developing and encouraging. So super happy with that one.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 36:32<br>That is absolutely amazing. And a huge ROI from his perspective.<br><br></div><div>Ryan 36:36<br>Massive.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 36:37<br>I mean, there's no better example than that. That's fantastic. And Steve, can you share another one, anyone that comes to mind? I know that you've got so many it's probably difficult to choose?<br><br></div><div>Steve 36:50<br>One that I could relate to, because I was bullied quite badly when I was in primary school, and one of our clients they suffered a lot of bullying in their childhood, and their self esteem and self regard was really low. And they've just got so much confidence and increased self belief, and they understand their value. And so on a personal level for them, it's been transformative, because they're starting to appreciate themselves and loving themselves and recognising what they have to bring. So that for me is amazing. And then I've got to slip in a cultural one, because I love culture. And I think one of the most exciting things about working with leaders is that, and we're talking about values as well, often a business's values are an extension of the founders values. And likewise, the culture and so through working with leaders and then going through a personal transformation, it can at times have a cultural transformation as well. And so if you're getting leaders to think and act differently, change their behaviour in a positive way, then they start treating and acting differently with their people. And so, we had one client that they sent me a video saying, on a Sunday after doing their run, when they're all like sweaty, not looking at their best. And I was like, this is amazing. This is how vulnerable people are willing to get with us! And he said, look, and there was something from our coaching session and it's basically changed how I'm doing recruitment, and I was recruiting someone and I used the phrase that you used with me. And now I'm taking a completely different change. They started writing new policies. And they've gone on a massive, like growth spurt and hiring spurt and it's transformed how they look after their people and how they go about how they communicate. They've adopted a more empowering style, and leading from behind to actually give their staff an opportunity to be more autonomous, to contribute and step up to be leaders rather than that leader was dominating and not creating space for people to contribute. And now the business is flourishing and over a very short amount of time. So there's, and that person was one of the toughest nuts to crack, because all the time, like in a reassuringly disruptive way, we're trying to break people down to then build them back up again. And changing behaviour is a really difficult thing to do. And it starts off with the mindset. So we have to do a lot of work around mindsets. And that's why we don't just jump into activation and we go through this research based process to take people through. So those two examples, and actually quite a lot of the people we've worked with have been bullied and have suffered. And I think that has, that feeds fear. And it feeds that sense of being judged, because a lot of the time people are being bullied through people judging them and forming an opinion on them. And so it gives us great satisfaction to help people overcome and flourish.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 40:54<br>You see it's testament to how, obviously, you work with people, because you're such good listeners, that you go deep into their backgrounds to uncover what is driving their behaviours. And this could be like you say, something that's happened years ago, and it often is, isn't it? They call it trauma. You know, some people have experienced all sorts of nasty things in their backgrounds, and they carry it with them today. And it's only a matter of triggering it out again. So I love that, and obviously it's testament to your work. And actually, I spoke to someone the other day that had just started working with you. And he's very introverted, is quite an introverted character. And he just shook his head like this really quietly and went, they're phenomenal. And I really didn't expect him to say that. So he was obviously feeling the benefits already of going deep and sort of, I don't know, maybe for many people, it's like putting a mirror up to yourself and actually getting you to think about you and your values and your history and your past and everything.<br><br></div><div>Ryan 41:53<br>We like to take people on face value, right? We don't make assumptions. And I think that's the key thing. When you make assumptions, you don't get the insights, and you don't get the understanding. And so for us, I speak for Steve here, we ask questions, we want to get to know people for who they really are and what they think not what we think so that's important to us.<br><br></div><div>Steve 42:15<br>I think catalysing introspection. It's amazing how little time people dedicate to the introspection of self. And it's linked to self awareness as well. I think we're so often caught up in being run by our personal lives and our professional lives. And especially for a lot of leaders, leadership can be a very, very lonely place. And a lot of people don't have the opportunity to have open and honest conversations where they can make themselves vulnerable. And we believe that vulnerability is our strength. It's not a weakness, we believe asking questions is a strength, it's not a weakness. And so creating those safe spaces for people to be able to have honest conversations is where you get breakthroughs. Because you can really face up to some difficult truths. And I think, from that you can build on that and then come up with mechanisms or solutions or approaches to move on from that.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 43:29<br>Do you think we're at the tipping, like at the start of this sort of movement in terms of personal branding? I know it's been around for a while, but I can't help but think everything that you've said is so true. And look in the last year, everything's kind of, we've advanced in technology, 10 years haven't we? Everyone's online, and you kind of have to put some thought into your online persona and what you want it to say so where do you think we are in this evolution? What do you think the future of personal branding holds?<br><br></div><div>Ryan 44:03<br>I don't think it's changed. I think the vehicle has changed. I don't think the principles have changed or people doing business with people. I think it becomes more important when everything becomes digitalized. And AI comes in one thing, that we have an advantage over all of that tech, emerging tech is emotion. So picking up on emotions and kind of connecting with people on the human level, I think is really key. And<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>I think bigger brands now are trying to humanise their storytelling through people. And I think it's linked with the trust leap. Trust is changing. You know, we used to trust big institutions, the big banks, we all bank or most of us bank with a challenger bank. We're trying new things. We're trusting new people, getting into taxis that aren't run by taxis they're just people off the street that have a car and I think it just goes full circle. But big businesses have always done business through, usually two human beings transacting at some point, there's a look in the eye to say, I'm going to trust you, shake hands and let's sign the contract, whether it's a multi million pound business, or whether it's a very small business, I think that still happens. And even if you look at some of the larger brands that are doing very, very well, and we buy their brands, but usually they've got key people. Whether it's a Musk for Tesla, or Jobs for Apple back in the day, they have these people spearheading it.&nbsp;<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>So I don't know what the tech side looks like and Steve can talk a bit more about the metaverse. I've not gone as deep as Steve has on that and he can talk about that in a second. But for me,<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>the vehicle is at the moment social, it might be something else going forward. But I still think finding your point of difference through your truth will always give you the edge.<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>Jenny 45:55<br>So true. So true. Steve, the metaverse?<br><br></div><div>Steve 46:04<br>I do like to look into the future. And I have been sort of wondering what personal branding looks like within the metaverse, which is the combination of new technology or old technologies that do new things when they're combined with other technologies. And so you get, with the rise of NFTs and digital art and gaming just being absolutely huge. There are swathes of people that are spending a fortune on digital sneakers for their avatars. So like limited edition NFT sneakers for their avatars, which is their personal brand. So it's really interesting to think around identity image, how people are connecting in that gaming world, and there's a huge commercial opportunity in that that space as well. I think, really what we're talking about is reputation management. And you know, we've seen recently, this cricketer that got, people that are getting held accountable for their 17 year old self. I'm thinking, gosh, I'm so glad the internet wasn't around like in my youth, because I was an idiot on so many levels and if that was recorded on the internet, then you know, it's Woah!<br><br></div><div>Jenny 47:42<br>That's so true we used to have to take out a Polaroid camera if we wanted to take any photos on a night out. Someone had to carry it in their handbag. So sorry, carry on.<br><br></div><div>Ryan 47:51<br>I love that. Yeah, we lost a few in Ibiza. Thank God.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 47:57<br>So right, Steve, carry on.<br><br></div><div>Steve 47:59<br>Yeah, so it is interesting. Like I said before, what we want to be able to do is determine our own reputation. And you've got to be really careful with personal branding, because a lot of people, there are different people out there that have got their take on it that are coming from PR. So you've got to look and make sure you get the right match of the people that are going to back you. We come from a transformation background like me, personally, I've been working in community and personal transformation for 20 years as a humanitarian worker around the world. So that obviously influences what our approach is because we're qualified coaches we've been, whereas if you're a personal branding agency that's come from a PR background, or a marketing background where you're used to hacking the system and gaming the system is you know, those people tend to be like, don't overthink it, just start putting yourself out there activate, activate! And from what we know of going deep with people, if we did that with some of our clients, they would fall on their face and get a very nasty accident by or it could damage their reputation. So you've got to, if you're thinking about it, pick the right people to guide you through it. And then the other thing to watch out for as well is a lot of people, if you want to be good at something, it requires time and effort. And the problem, one of the major problems of contemporary society, most parts of the world, is desire for immediate gratification. And so with our method, we can see positive results within six months. And if you really go at it and make a big investment up front, you can see it within three months. The people want it like that, but they're not willing to build an audience and say, well, you're not going to get results without building an audience. So you need to, you do need to commit, you need to have a level of commitment, and put some effort in. And then you'll get results from it. But the trend that we see with some people is they don't want to put the time and effort. And so they hire people to create the content for them. And if the people creating the content on their behalf, are not getting, if they don't really know that person deeply, and they don't get the positioning properly, and they don't understand the tone of voice, it can actually undermine you when you meet them offline. So if somebody's writing my content for me, this is why I think video is so important, by the way, because there's no hiding, it's like, that's you if this is a podcast it's so good because that's you like, particularly a podcast, because we make mistakes, we're thinking on our feet. It's not, it's like a dance we're dancing. Now, we don't know if I'm going to step on your feet by mistake when I try a fancy move that I've never tried before. So, and I like that, I like that sense of discomfort at times. But what am I trying to say here, I'm trying to say that if you get other people to write posts and they don't get it right, when they meet you in real life, and it doesn't match, you erode the trust rapidly. And the thing about trust is, it's one of the hardest things to gain and it's one of the easiest things to lose, it can be gone like that, and take ages to build up. So just be aware. And don't be like chasing, don't be too greedy for the results too quickly and expect other people to do it. Because that's not personal branding is? It's not personal.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 51:59<br>It's such a good point. It really is, like, be consistent, but really think about what you're going to do first. I mean, it goes back to the point about strategy, doesn't it? And going deep and I just think, people are obsessed by automation nowadays aren't they - quicker, faster, cheaper. But actually, when it comes to your personal brand, that's not the way to go. So listen, I want to be respectful of your time, we're coming up to the hour, this has been absolutely amazing. Oh, you've just got me spell struck all the way through, spell bound, spell struck. Any kind of final words of advice for anyone listening to this thinking, you know what, they've got a massive point, I really need to do something. And also, if they do want to get in touch, how can they get hold of you?<br><br></div><div>Ryan 52:47<br>Advice, wow, there's so much I could give. Believe in yourself. Compete with yourself, not anyone else. And don't take anything personally.<br><br></div><div>Steve 53:02<br>I would say, to add to that, for a start point, comment on other people's posts and make sure you add value on it. Don't just put 'That's a great post Jenny!' Actually engage with it and read it thoroughly and think of an engaging question to ask or think about building on it. And I think that will help build your confidence if you're at that stage where you're not posting yourself. And it will help you to build your audience. And then yeah, build your audience. So when it comes to the point of activating and putting your stories out there, then you've got an audience to to engage with your content. And then the other point is, you have an important story to tell. And everyone has got a reason why they're here on this planet, and they've got some gifts and talent to give to the world. Believe in what you have to bring, and there are audiences out there waiting for that value that you can bring to them.<br><br></div><div>Ryan 54:12<br>Yeah, we say don't conform. It's easy to conform to what other people are doing and to copy and think it's going to help you win. Be yourself. You be you. And before we close can I just say thank you. Thank you for your content because actually from being a previous account manager to being a little bit unpracticed in that, it's been really helpful to follow your content. It's top class, it's on the money and really appreciate your insights and your value add.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 54:45<br>Thank you so much Ryan. Coming from you guys that means a massive load. And thank you so much. And thank you so much for coming on the podcast this has been absolutely delightful. And just finally, who is the best person that you want to hear from and how can they get hold of you?<br><br></div><div>Ryan 55:02<br>We're working with leaders and entrepreneurs at the moment. We are at the moment serving majority of agency owners. So that's where we work. So if you're an agency owner, and you're thinking about scaling up, and you're not sure quite how to do that and you want some support, then then we're happy to hear from you. Drop us a line, send us a DM on LinkedIn, Steve or me, and we can have a chat and see how we might be able to help you.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 55:30<br>Brilliant. I'll put the links to your LinkedIn profiles and the website on the show notes. Thank you so much. This has been amazing. Thank you.<br><br></div><div>Steve 55:38<br>Absolute pleasure. Thank you for having us.<br><br></div><div>Ryan 55:40<br>Thanks, Jenny. Thank you.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2021 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/zw6r2k9w.mp3" length="62695361" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/d368f550-cf4b-11eb-aab1-5f052f0428e9/d368f840-cf4b-11eb-a68c-17f3f63ab23f.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3134</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Episode 36 is all about personal branding. I spoke to experts in this area, Ryan O'Keeffe, and Steve Richards from Jago. They work with entrepreneurs, business leaders and employees and they've done a lot of work with agencies and agency owners particularly. They share some really powerful insights and tips, not only how personal branding works for agency owners, but also how it can benefit agency account managers. We cover:

What is personal branding?
Why is it important to pay attention to your personal brand
The impact of focusing time on your personal brand
Where to start with personal branding.

They also shared some really insightful examples of how it can transform your agency business. I hope like me, you come away inspired by this episode and with some 'aha' moments. I would highly recommend you follow Steven and Richard on LinkedIn. They share some brilliant content and they really are super, super guys.

A quick reminder, if you are an agency account manager and you're listening to this, you'll find lots of resources here on my website at www.accountmanagementskills.com. There's a quiz you can take on the Home page in which you evaluate how good you are at developing client business. You can also sign up for my newsletter, where I share weekly tips and podcast episodes and information specifically for the agency world.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Episode 36 is all about personal branding. I spoke to experts in this area, Ryan O'Keeffe, and Steve Richards from Jago. They work with entrepreneurs, business leaders and employees and they've done a lot of work with agencies and agency owners particularly. They share some really powerful insights and tips, not only how personal branding works for agency owners, but also how it can benefit agency account managers. We cover:

What is personal branding?
Why is it important to pay attention to your personal brand
The impact of focusing time on your personal brand
Where to start with personal branding.

They also shared some really insightful examples of how it can transform your agency business. I hope like me, you come away inspired by this episode and with some 'aha' moments. I would highly recommend you follow Steven and Richard on LinkedIn. They share some brilliant content and they really are super, super guys.

A quick reminder, if you are an agency account manager and you're listening to this, you'll find lots of resources here on my website at www.accountmanagementskills.com. There's a quiz you can take on the Home page in which you evaluate how good you are at developing client business. You can also sign up for my newsletter, where I share weekly tips and podcast episodes and information specifically for the agency world.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Why every agency account manager needs to be good at brief writing, with Ceylan Boyce</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/0nj7qr08</link>
      <itunes:title>Why every agency account manager needs to be good at brief writing, with Ceylan Boyce</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>35</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">40pwxvm1</guid>
      <description>This week I invited my good friend, Ceylan Boyce to talk to us about strategic thinking and getting brief writing right. We talked about:

Why it's so important for an agency account manager to have that important skill of writing briefs
Why it's important to agencies and clients to get the writing of the brief right
What's the implication of having a shitty brief
Where briefs go wrong
and some of the important elements to include in a good brief.

I'm also asked J to share some experiences that she's had, where the agency has written a brief and challenged the brief with their client. And it's proven very, very fruitful.

I hope you enjoy the episode with Ceylan, and you come away with a few ideas about brief writing. Now, if you are interested in the brief writing workshop that we're running, please visit my Training hub at www.accountmanagementskills.com/training.  You can reach out to me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant, or send me an email at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:<br></strong><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>00:03<br><br></div><div>So on today's episode, I'm delighted to talk to my good friend Ceylan Boyce. The reason I've invited J onto the show is that a lot of people have been contacting me recently to ask me about 'brief' writing. Now, it's a really fundamental part of an account manager's role is to write a really good brief. And because J has a huge amount of experience in the agency world,&nbsp; I'm going to pass over to her in a minute to introduce her thoroughly, but she's one of the clearest, most strategic minds that I know and she has run a training on 'brief' writing, with many companies very successfully. So we are getting together to offer this training for the account management community. So I want to talk to J today about first of all her background, what she's doing now, but also to go into a little bit of detail about why we should be writing great briefs, a little bit about J's experience of working with different companies on brief writing, and I'm sure the conversation will go in lots of different directions. So J, would you mind if I hand it over to you? Welcome to the show, would you mind spending a couple of minutes talking about you, your background, who you help, and just give us a flavour of Ceylan.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>01:21<br><br></div><div>Yes sure Jenny, thank you so much for inviting me on the podcast. So a little bit about me, as you know, my background is pretty eclectic with a couple of backbone areas that led my decisions over the years. So I started my career in the advertising world as an account handler so I know very well the pain points of account handling. I guess from the start, I was lucky enough to be coached and guided by great managers, who spotted my interest in strategy, which also helped me climb the agency ladder quite fast. And within five, six years of the agency life, I actually became CSD to one of the leading pharmaceutical agencies, here in London. Then I opened my own strategic consultancy in 2012, and worked for major healthcare companies, and health or wellbeing related companies. In 2017, I got trained in Cambridge University as an executive coach, and trainer, professional trainer. And since then I have kind of been combining my strategic background, and all these coaching and training qualities to basically train businesses of all size in many areas that are linked to strategy. Currently, I'm also leading a new startup as you know, called <a href="https://academyforwomenentrepreneurs.com/">Academy for Women Entrepreneurs</a> where I am passionately training women business owners to think strategically about their businesses. So kind of probably, you know, when I said backbone areas, business and strategy are all ways, have always been these backbone areas and I added on top of it, the human development sides, and then I'm kind of combining all this. That's me.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>03:23<br><br></div><div>Honestly, you are a firecracker. And when I introduce you to people, I say she's a firecracker because I've never met anyone with so much energy and focus. I've seen J work on pitch presentations, you know, for several days, do you remember? Like, it was just phenomenal? And a couple of things that you said that I want to pick up on one? It was 2012 did you say that you started J stratejy? And the interesting thing about that is that model, that virtual model that you started up your strategic consultancy, was exactly what has transpired now, for many agencies starting up with the virtual model, but at the time, you had some fantastic clients on your roster. But it was a difficult sell wasn't?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>04:02<br><br></div><div>Oh, it was such a difficult sell, because they were just seeing us as a bunch of kind of freelance, like, I remember going to speak at the Novartis pitch, and Novartis was choosing their main agencies for three years. So it was either you were in or out. And I remember like, they were saying, 'Well, how are we going to trust her?' And I was like, 'Why it is so different to you, what you're doing with the agencies not changing is just our modality, which actually brings a lot of agility and probably, cost cut as well'. So, but hey! Hey ho!<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>04:47<br><br></div><div>It's just amazing, isn't it, how things have transpired? The other thing that you said that was super relevant was, you're now helping businesses of all sizes, including the entrepreneurial community of kind of micro business owners, and one of the most successful projects, or products that you sell, is your strategic planning workshop. And I've just noticed so many testimonials coming up from business owners saying, ''Oh my God, this was incredible, it's really cleared the fog'. So well done you, amazing. So tell me, J, why are you so passionate about strategy?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>05:22<br><br></div><div>This question, like I keep asking myself as well, why do I always get pulled there? Listen, I think I'm a naturally curious person, which was one of the characteristics that kind of made me interested in strategy. You know, strategy is all about asking more questions.<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>But my passion came when I started to experience and witness the impact of strategic thinking on life, business and career. You know, I guess there are two real main driving forces in success. Well, this is kind of me believing in this. The first one is definitely consistency. So it's like the power of showing up doing things in a disciplined way. Right. And we both experienced the result of a compound effect. And the second one is the ability to take perspective and analyse and shift or continue, which is, to me, is the power of the right questions and to do the right things. So the first one is do the things consistently. The second one is do the right things.&nbsp;<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>And essentially, the second one is basically be able to think strategically for me, and that's probably why I'm so passionate about it. It's like my wish to do the right thing and ask the right questions.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>06:49<br><br></div><div>I think this, particularly for the agency, account manager community is key. I think one of the things that comes up time and time again, is I want to be more of a strategic thinker. I want to add value to the client business in a more strategic way. Or I'm not strategic enough. There's always that word strategy. And sometimes, you know, people use it as a mythical kind of you're not strategic enough but what does that actually mean? And sometimes, the way the agency's structured is that they might have a strategic planning department, which means the account management team don't necessarily get as big a role in the strategy sometimes. So there's that fight as well. So I'd love you to sort of talk me through what your observations have been of the account management community, when it comes to strategic ability and strategic input.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>07:42<br><br></div><div>Okay, so this is a great question. And I would say, when I started, so this goes back to beginning of 2000s. And when I started in the advertising, especially in the healthcare advertising, there wasn't that much of 'Oh you are strategic or you're this'. Account handling was a thing of strategy, you need it to understand your clients business, to be able to help them grow it. And that is all about strategy. So you needed to know the market dynamics, you needed to know the content of what you're selling basically. It wasn't just a classically viewed sales job or project management job, it was much more than that. And slowly, slowly, what is more applied in the consumer advertising world, which is that most strategic planners are different and then accountants are different and creatives are different, project managers are different, all of that started to filter also med comm and healthcare advertising or any agency world. My take on on this is it takes the power out of the client relationship management, because the person who holds that relationship has to have the intelligence to be able to empower that relationship to grow. And I think it's really very key for the growth, personal growth of the account handling community members as well. So I believe it's a really key skill. And I wish more agencies were actually behind their account handlers to gain that kind of skill, have space and time.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>09:43<br><br></div><div>I'm going to repeat this anecdotally, really, but one of the biggest complaints that I hear from the client community is that account managers don't have enough commercial acumen. Meaning, as to your point, they don't understand my business, they don't understand the market environment, my competitors, my customers, and they're not bringing me proactively, ideas based on that knowledge. So let's talk about specifically, where account managers tend to get involved, which is the brief writing process. So A, they're taking the brief from the client, and potentially challenging the brief, and then having to interpret the brief. So why do you believe that brief writing is so important for agencies?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>10:29<br><br></div><div>Okay, so there are many reasons. There is a quote, and I'm going to a little bit mess it about, but basically it says behind every masterpiece, whether it's a project creative brief or product brief, there's a great brief. So<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>great briefs ensure excellence. Bad briefs, cost in time, productivity, money, client relationships to agencies, or bad briefs create bad synergy and team problems. So I mean, this is the big thing about the polarity of creatives and account handlers, because all creatives didn't understand the brief or you didn't apply the brief, whatever, it's always this kind of like, touchy thing. And brief writing is probably one of the most strategic activities of account handling. So you got to have that, you got to have that little muscle ticking to be able to write excellent briefs to get to the excellent results, basically.<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>11:43<br><br></div><div>I think it's, you're so right, with everything that you've just said, I mean, when time is money, often many agencies are not necessarily value based pricing, they're not basing their pricing on outcomes. It's more about inputs and hours. So if every minute counts, and you write a bad brief, or you don't do the research behind the good brief, or you've got your thinking wrong, then the implications is huge, isn't it? The cost, as you said, to the team morale, the profitability of the agency, the client satisfaction, etc. so it's huge. But like you say, it's that key point to get it right. So, where in your experience, do agencies get it wrong with briefs?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>12:28<br><br></div><div>Yes, there are two main reasons. So the first one is they do a quick and dirty job. Right, so you are the account handling queen. You tell me how many jobs an account handler juggles in the day?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>12:43<br><br></div><div>Yeah, it varies, doesn't it? I mean, some account managers have multiple clients with multiple projects, and they're just trying to keep their head above water.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>12:51<br><br></div><div>Exactly.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>12:52<br><br></div><div>Depending on how the agencies, like how their model is, because, as you said before, sometimes the project management function is separate, so the account manager theoretically has more scope to really add the time and effort that's needed. But some, as you say, have that combined role where they're doing project management and account management.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>13:16<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>So in my experience, what I have seen is, it's always urgent. And the brief writing is squeezed between two calls and three mails and two projects so it's always a squeeze thing. I used to always say to my team, there's always time to do it again and again and again but there is never time to do it right at the first round. So that's kind of the main problem. And the second problem is, I think, to my knowledge, and you correct me, none of the account handlers that I came across, were properly trained on brief writing. So it is a skill, but you want your team to kind of be born with it, or come up with it so they're not trained and it is a skill to be trained up.<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>14:13<br><br></div><div>I think if you're very, very lucky, and I think things have changed since I started out, which was like a long, long, long time ago, I mean, if you're really, really lucky, you will have an internal training session where the creative director will kind of talk you through the agency's proprietary strategic tool, and how to write a brief. I mean, we've both worked in both micro agencies, independents and networked agencies, where systems are a lot more established and processes are a lot more established. But yeah, absolutely. I mean, the implication of doing, sorry we're you going to say something there?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>14:55<br><br></div><div>Yeah, I will just say something because like this is a really good point that you're making. So there are processes and people are trained on processes. Let's talk about these processes on a brief, but probably 99% of the briefs are going to ask one key question, right? It's 'What's the objective?' So the thing is, if you're not trained to think about what's the objective in a right way, here are the types of things that I came across in my career is something like, 'Create a series of newsletter'. Okay, so that can be an objective written on the brief, right? Or, I came across these briefs that are like literally, the objectives that are a paragraph long, 'Become the market leaders, create impact. stay top of mind'. So like you put a list of all the marketing jargon that you know, so that, maybe it will hit one of them? So this is it, it's not about just processes, because processes exist, okay, great. But it's about making people think correctly about those questions and processes and that brief. That the content of that brief, that's the training that we are missing, I guess.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>15:24<br><br></div><div>I love that you've made that point, actually, because I think that's where you're different in that you train people in how to think strategically. And to put that down in a brief, and I think that's the key difference. You're right. I mean, anyone can come up with a template with headings, but it's how you then fill out those sections. So, and I've seen the feedback from your previous sessions, and it's just, it's phenomenal. So the implications of writing a shitty brief, are?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>16:54<br><br></div><div>Well, I mean, like, at the end of the day, it's a business outcome. It impacts directly the business outcome, which is money, which then transforms into the account handlers life as less bonus, okay. So if everyone needs to take their kind of shitty impact, there's shit impact for everyone. For the client who was managing it, he's not going to hit their target, do you know, that's the shit impact. For the agency in general, probably they're not going to be able to retain that client that long, or they're not going to have more of the projects, they're not going to be able to grow their projects. For the people who are working in the agency, they're going to have a really kind of dodgy relationship within the team, because everybody will kind of give the hot potato to others. So I think it's everyone is impacted when the key strategic activity, often account handler, is badly done.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>18:06<br><br></div><div>I absolutely agree with you, I think you get a lot more respect within your agency, if you know how to write a really good brief. And actually, from my experience, you are going to stand out a mile from the pack if you can, because it's a skill, as you say, it's almost like a muscle that you develop, and then you can repeat and repeat and repeat. But you do no need to know the fundamentals. And on that point, what are the important elements that go into a really good brief?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>18:33<br><br></div><div>There are many, but just to give it a quick kind of thing, so first of all, is really understanding the end audience, right? The end user of that piece or product or app, whatever that brief will result into, whoever is going to be exposed to that end result, you need to understand that person. You need to clarify the objective, and there is a really simple tool to be able to clarify the objective. And when I train people, I say, 'Becoming the top of mind', is the last time that you're using those words. No more marketing jargon, or if you're going to use it, you got to explain to me, what do you mean again, so really clarifying the objective. Defining the key messages and again, it's not the classical way of defining the key messages, but impactful messages, this is going to actually hit the objective. This message will hit the objective, this information, this data helps this objective to move forward. And then, there are some simple steps to follow, key steps of writing, reading, editing a brief. You don't just write a brief in 10 minutes and then shove it in front of the creative team because they will understand it. So you need head space and time to be able to perfect it. And I'm not a perfectionist, but that brief writing needs to be excellent. So that the result is excellent, basically.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>20:18<br><br></div><div>Okay, love it. And what else goes into that brief? I mean, what other elements do you think should be important in your experience of training this with loads of different people? What points do they need to understand more than others?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>20:36<br><br></div><div>The three points that I mentioned. So audience, objective and key message and then after that, it's all about also giving the right amount of information. So, for example, you ask, what is the background information? And then they put everything and anything? Yes, but why am I supposed to read all this information, does it really help my brief? So, for example, if the brief is about a brand that has a long presence in the market, and actually you are celebrating their 20th year in the market, and it's a big campaign, right, I'm just like literally making it up right now. Then it makes sense to talk about heritage of this brand, and how it came. But if actually, the brief is about refreshing an old brand and giving them a punchy look, a newer look, then maybe you should not talk about that whole heritage and give that information or keep it only in one sentence. Yes, this is an old brand but actually, you want to renew it. So the information that you're choosing in the background has to be conditioned by your objective, and by the end results that you want to get. This is one thing, avoiding all the jargon and general sentences is another thing because it creates confusion. So really being precise, concise, is the key. And there are tools to be able to actually make it like that.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>22:22<br><br></div><div>I love that you're sharing this because what's becoming clear is this is not just about brief writing is it? This is about a skill in communication. Because to your point about, and sometimes maybe it's a lack of confidence thing, I'm just going to cut and paste all this background info because it looks like you know, to Seth Godin's point, it's got the 'thud factor', there's a lot in there so that means I've done a good job. But actually the reverse is true, isn't it? You know, what are the key points that I really need to communicate? And how much can I cut out? Because I noticed J, with all of your communications, everything is very succinct. And onpoint. Can you speak to a little bit on that?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>23:00<br><br></div><div>Yeah, sure and I really want to also jump on what you said. It's not just yes, the brief writing, when you get it right, it's not just about brief writing. It's a skill that you can apply into any parts of communication, it's a skill that you can apply in presentation, it's a skill that you can apply in email writing. It's a very transferable life skill basically. It's a skill that you can apply in how to manage a meeting, how to define those key points that are important for your audience it's really a life skill. Right. So in that sense, repeat again your previous question, I just got lost!<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>23:48<br><br></div><div>Don't worry, I think I'm lost as well! I'm really enjoying the conversation. Just go with the flow. Just carry on. I've got another question up my sleeve, though.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>23:58<br><br></div><div>All right. So this is kind of what I was gonna say.<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>It's not just about brief writing, when you get good at brief writing, you get good at communicating, which is probably the most important life skill that you can gain.<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>24:13<br><br></div><div>Agreed. Just going back to the confidence thing. I remember you, and I don't know whether you can remember this, but you gave me an example where you challenged the brief, because I think the skill that you're talking about now about writing a good brief, is actually relevant for both clients and agencies. So it could be, and this is why you help companies in general with briefing, it could be a client that gives you a brief that's not on point and the same implications happen, or it could be an agency account manager writing a brief for their internal team, I think the principles are the same. So if in the scenario of when a client comes to you with a brief that maybe is very quickly written, not a lot of thought in it, not a lot of context, maybe no data to support anything, no evidence, etc. And can you talk to us about the importance of sort of challenging the brief and really helping that process to make it to even better output?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>25:17<br><br></div><div>Sure. And thank you very much for asking this question. Because right now, we're putting everything on the shoulders of account handlers.<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>But actually account handlers receive, most of the time, very bad briefs. Very, very bad briefs, because clients are not trained in brief writing either. And especially a marketing side of the client, so a marketing person from the client side, oh, my God, the things that they need to juggle between. So brief writing is the lowest importance on their to do list, and they just like chuck some information and send it to their agency. And then the account handler finds himself or herself in front of the thing that is called 'brief'. And there's a choice to make. It's either, I'm gonna take ownership and be able to push back or at least, I'm not saying pushing back in a irrespectful way, it's just asking the questions to actually refine that brief. Or you're going to become a post office, and then you're just going to pass the baby to, again, the hot potato, to the creative team, who will struggle, not understand, and then they will just create something.&nbsp;<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>Creative team or a product team or whoever is the production team in your scenario. So in that case, yes, you have to 1, manage the expectation of the clients, in terms of brief writing, and make them understand that this is important to you, this is important to the agency and to them as an end result, and probably manage that expectation upfront within the relationship management, which you would do much better than me, but it's all about saying, look, when we send you a brief template, if you didn't have time to fill it that much, why don't we go through it together? And then you have some questions that you can ask because you know what you're talking about, and you can get the right information and then you write it. It happened to me in my career, like years, years, years ago, a client came said it was about HIV, it was an HIV client and they wanted to do a campaign on women HIV. And they just came in, they said, 'Oh, we want to do a brochure on this'. And I was just like, 'Why a brochure? Why are you even doing a campaign on this?' and actually, their objective was so much bigger than a brochure could meet up. Then the 80k client, so they had 80k budget to do this mini campaign became 400k client within six months. So this is the good impact on the agency, of course, but also the impact on the client, it was that they started to be recognised literally as the leaders in that sector for dealing with woman HIV and how to prevent HIV in women. So that's the, I guess, power of being able to, as you said, trust yourself, trust your guts, and just go, 'Why?'<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>28:59<br><br></div><div>That seems to be like a key question. And I'm not sure it's done enough. Partly because maybe the lack of, I don't know, confidence or not wanting to disrespect someone, but actually, what you've just explained is the reason we should be asking why. And in fairness, the clients like you said, they're short of time, they haven't necessarily received the training, it's a tick boxing exercise, where they say, 'Well, this is the brief, let's just go and do something executionly'. But actually, the co-creation of that brief session is key, isn't it? And maybe that should be in every agency's repertoire in terms of service that they provide?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>29:36<br><br></div><div>100% I mean, I remember like,<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>you make your client sign a brief right, and the client will sign a brief, okay, they will correct some minor stuff and they will sign a brief and then you are there. You're feeling empowered because because you can hold them accountable. That's, I'm sorry the expression, but it's bullshit because whenever that project goes wrong, even if you tell them oh you signed the brief that's it, it actually damaged the relationship. So that's where I actually like owning that relationship and nurturing it from the start by saying, hang on, this is a really key moment, let's spare an hour of your time and my time, let's hop on a call, a zoom call and let's go through all these questions together. And that's it, one hour.<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>30:29<br><br></div><div>It shows massive proactivity, massive professionalism, it shows that you're adding value that you're helping, that you're interested in this success. You know, it's the part of your partnership in terms of working with the client that you are committed to the shared success. So I think it's a great example. And just out of interest, that HIV client, the brief originally was a brochure and what did the end kind of programme look like?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>30:57<br><br></div><div>Oh it was a massive Medcomm MedEd programme. It became something massive, and it was a repeat programme, they created an award, like Research Award with them, so they were able to give awards, etc. So it became, and it still is going on, it's still something that they are continuing now, not as the format that we had created in 2007, or something, but it became a heritage programme for them. So yeah, and that's the moment where you just say no, this is not sounding right. There's something weird in this.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>31:36<br><br></div><div>Yeah, so it's totally the opportunity for the account manager to shine, for the agency to shine. And it really is one of those absolute key moments to get it right, to add the most value, isn't it? Because once that ball is in motion, and people are executing on it, then it just becomes a project that's just not going to get any better is it? You're not going to come back from that. Yeah, I love this. This is this is so important. So let's talk a little bit about this brief writing training that we're going to put on for the agency community because I'm super passionate about this, because I really think it's needed. And I think everyone should have that skill. So can you talk me through a bit about how it works and some of the benefits?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>32:18<br><br></div><div>Sure. So first of all, let's follow our kind of our own brief writing format, right. So, Who is it for? Who are the people? So I guess the simplest way to say is whoever is exposed to either brief writing or being the gatekeeper of the briefs, or standard bearer of the good briefs, so whoever is exposed to that, so it can be from client side, as I said, I have delivered this training to very, very technical people who had to write briefs and who had no idea about what does an objective, what is a marketing objective? What does this you know? So it really helped them understand certain parameters of good brief. And in an agency context, it's mostly account handlers but also creatives because they have to also fight their corner, right? So they need to say, hang on, this doesn't make sense. You're saying this in the objective now you're coming with this key message? Why? It doesn't even follow. What's this about? So anybody who has to actually work with that brief, can benefit from this training. So what is the objective of the training? The training not only gives the skills but also gives a very clear format of brief, and also as I said, it's not just about 'What's the objective?, it's 'How am I going to think about the objective and all the questions within that question?' So that you actually come up with a very clear idea on each part of the brief. And basically, when when you go through those questions, because there's much more sub questions and sub questions, you know, it's the why, why, why, why? And at the end, there is nothing left but the barebone important information. So you end up by gaining that skill of writing a good brief and you get out of it with the tools. So you are a good brief writer, that's the objective of it. And my key message is 1, I seriously didn't come across any account handler who were able to write good briefs because they were not trained. So I believe account handlers can massively benefit from this. I believe agencies can massively benefit from this because it will actually save them time, money, productivity and it will regenerate the team synergy between their account teams and creative teams. That's it!<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>35:11<br><br></div><div>Love it, I have to agree with everything. The only thing I'm thinking is if there is an agency that's not traditional creative agency, but there might be maybe a website development agency or a video production agency an app development agency or video production agency, any type of agency where there's a client, and there's an agency, right?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>35:33<br><br></div><div>Oh, 100%, there's a client, an agency, or there is two teams where there is a project management team and more technical production team. And when there is those different skill sets that are not actually working on a end product, there is always a communication and there is always lost in translation. So this always helps them to set those bridges between teams.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>36:07<br><br></div><div>Great. And how do you run this session J? Is this virtual? Is this face to face? How long is it? What's the kind of format?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>36:14<br><br></div><div>Both. Well, in our world right now, it's mostly virtual. So it's three hours with a little break. It's highly interactive, I really do three minutes talk and then it's all about them working on the show, it's really they are working. And it's only three hours, it's pretty easy, pretty simple to gather people, it can be just the morning and then they go off to lunch or afternoon. It can be also delivered in person, when we're allowed to and then I just say half a day, because there's more social networking components in it as well. But yeah, it's really, really interactive. And I don't just lecture, it's not about lecturing, it's all about making people do stuff.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>37:13<br><br></div><div>Yeah. And your latest client, I know that you told me this the other day, and I had to say it, they were so impressed with what you did for them, that they've invited you back to repeat it six times.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>37:24<br><br></div><div>Yes. exactly. So they had trained I think, at the beginning six, nine people. And then they just came back saying we want to train 45 people in the company, is it possible? I said, well, we need to chop them into groups but definitely, we can do it. So yeah.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>37:49<br><br></div><div>I've just so excited about putting this out. And I know that there's a few agencies that spring to mind that particularly have been asking me about this. So I'm really super excited. I've got the right person, the right person partnering, so I'm going to include all of the details for, if anyone's listening, and they're interested in knowing more about it. The key contact will be me on on LinkedIn or jenny@accountmanagementskills.com and I can give them more information. But any final advice J, for agency account managers who are listening to you and thinking, Oh, my God, I know what she's saying is true. Have you got any final words of wisdom or advice for them?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>38:32<br><br></div><div>I guess I think, slow down. I know what agency life is like, I have done those hours - 4am, 7am. I have done that and slow down. No one is dying. And it's only communications and when you slow down, answers come to you. So slow down, especially brief writing, it's not a rushed thing. Create space, create time and take your time to really reflect on those questions of your brief template.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>39:12<br><br></div><div>Love that. Love that. And the point that we were talking about before, I think it's important to invest in your career and yourself, don't you? I mean, you and I've spent a fortune on masterclasses, education etc. And I think you've only got, your career is one of the most valuable assets. And the other thing I was going to ask you was because you are such a sharp, creative and strategic thinker, what are your sources of inspiration? Can you recommend any books, podcasts, sources that you go to to get inspired with thinking the way you think?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>39:49<br><br></div><div>So I'm a little bit of a geek and that's why my sources are quite eclectic. I mean, I can go into big encyclopaedia of neuropsychology or neuroplasticity as much as I can also go into a yoga book that will inspire me. But within the strategic thinking or learning or being curious, probably my number one podcast for everyone is, as you know, I'm passionate about that is <a href="https://fs.blog/knowledge-project/">The Knowledge Project</a> because the host Shane Parrish has been running Farnam Street so his blog for years and years and Knowledge Project hosted, like the biggest name in every and any sector. So you just like can listen from parenting, to marketing, to investment to whatever the topic that he had in mind. So it's really, it's really inspiring, that's one of the things. Others I would say, kind of sector of reading or knowledge that I am really interested in is mental models. So any book around mental models would help you. Shane Parrish has made two books are on <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shane-Parrish/e/B07PN7PQ21?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1&amp;qid=1623340376&amp;sr=8-1">mental models</a>. And there is a book called<a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Super-Thinking-Upgrade-Reasoning-Decisions-ebook/dp/B07FRXC3KN/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&amp;keywords=super+thinking&amp;qid=1623340423&amp;s=books&amp;sr=1-1"> Super Thinking</a>, which also is all about kind of applying different mental models into your daily life. And finally, another book is <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Loserthink-Untrained-Brains-Ruining-America/dp/B07VQLF8M9/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&amp;keywords=loser+think&amp;qid=1623340447&amp;s=books&amp;sr=1-2">Loser Think</a> and that is the book where how some type of thinking can actually lead you into into wrong areas.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>41:37<br><br></div><div>Wow, thank you so much for sharing that. I mean, I listen to The Knowledge Project and the Farnam Street blog, but the other recommendations, wonderful. Thank you so much J. I just want to say a huge thank you. And if anyone's listening and they want to reach out to either me or J, then you can hit us up on LinkedIn. And I would highly recommend following you because you're doing some amazing things. I watch and see so much activity and just, you're always inspiring me. So thank you so much for coming on J. This has been brilliant.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Ceylan&nbsp; </strong>42:11<br><br></div><div>Thank you very much for inviting me.<br><br></div><div><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2021 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/l890344w.mp3" length="47307671" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/22ed58d0-c9e8-11eb-b5a6-6573f63a9ef6/22ed5a10-c9e8-11eb-a571-a78b94be21bb.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2365</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>This week I invited my good friend, Ceylan Boyce to talk to us about strategic thinking and getting brief writing right. We talked about:

Why it's so important for an agency account manager to have that important skill of writing briefs
Why it's important to agencies and clients to get the writing of the brief right
What's the implication of having a shitty brief
Where briefs go wrong
and some of the important elements to include in a good brief.

I'm also asked J to share some experiences that she's had, where the agency has written a brief and challenged the brief with their client. And it's proven very, very fruitful.

I hope you enjoy the episode with Ceylan, and you come away with a few ideas about brief writing. Now, if you are interested in the brief writing workshop that we're running, please visit my Training hub at www.accountmanagementskills.com/training.  You can reach out to me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant, or send me an email at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>This week I invited my good friend, Ceylan Boyce to talk to us about strategic thinking and getting brief writing right. We talked about:

Why it's so important for an agency account manager to have that important skill of writing briefs
Why it's important to agencies and clients to get the writing of the brief right
What's the implication of having a shitty brief
Where briefs go wrong
and some of the important elements to include in a good brief.

I'm also asked J to share some experiences that she's had, where the agency has written a brief and challenged the brief with their client. And it's proven very, very fruitful.

I hope you enjoy the episode with Ceylan, and you come away with a few ideas about brief writing. Now, if you are interested in the brief writing workshop that we're running, please visit my Training hub at www.accountmanagementskills.com/training.  You can reach out to me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant, or send me an email at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to reach more senior clients, with Jenny Plant</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/28x9rr4n</link>
      <itunes:title>How to reach more senior clients, with Jenny Plant</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>34</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">60mxqqr1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 34. One of the things that account managers who come on my Account Accelerator programme tell me is that they have a barrier to growing existing business, because they don't feel like they're talking to the decision maker. They say that their client contact is not senior enough, or a major decision maker, and therefore, are not really going to be open to new thoughts, new ideas, and have any authority to open the door to other people within the organisation, or to say yes or no to new ideas that they're presenting. So today's episode is all about how do we reach more senior people within the same organisation, without upsetting your key contact.

I hope this episode gives you a few ideas to consider when thinking about trying to establish relationships with more senior clients. There are a few more ideas, which we cover in the Account Accelerator programme. So if you're interested in finding out more, it's all about creating a client centric plan to increase your revenue from your existing clients. And I will be running that in September 2021 again, so if you're interested in more details, please get in contact. It's Jenny Plant on LinkedIn, or jenny@accountmanagementskills.com.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:</strong><br>Account managers tell me that their day to day contact at the client side is too junior. And they really need to be speaking to more senior people at the client side in order to get any decisions made about expansion of the account. So I want to break it down and talk through some ideas for you. And I've got five ideas for how you can navigate the organisation and reach more senior clients without upsetting your key contact. So before we get into the five different ways, the key thing to do when wanting to speak to more senior clients at the agency side is to really understand their business. Now, it kind of is obvious, but the more senior you are at a client organisation, the more close you are to the business challenges, the business objectives. And therefore before you go and present yourself or try and speak to these more senior people in the client company, you want to really do your research. What is the company doing? What is their strategy for the year? Do we have a copy of their marketing plan? Do we really understand their objectives, and actually, who are the individuals that we want to reach? Now, if you're dealing with an enterprise level client, then if you go on to seekingalpha.com, you can download a transcript of the C suite conversations and the presentations on a quarterly basis to the investors. And this is where you can literally read from the words of the CEO, the CFO, what their plans are, where they're focusing their energy and time in the coming quarter, or the coming year. Are there any new products coming down the pipeline? Are they expanding into new territories, what's happening at a macro level in the organisation, and also go onto their website, download the latest report and accounts, read the chairman's statement. And really find out about who the company are, who their key competitors are, what brands or what products or services drive their business, so that when you try to reach these more senior people, you have that background understanding of the client business. One of the biggest complaints that clients typically have about agency account managers is that they don't have business acumen, they don't understand the client business well enough. So don't fall foul of that and make sure that you do that research to start with.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>So let's talk about the different ways that you can get access to more senior people. So the <strong>first suggestion</strong> I have is to conduct a client listening study. And this is where you would invite as well as your key contact, more senior people within that organisation to give you feedback on your agency performance. Typically, more senior marketers are often at the pitch process initially when they're choosing an agency but then over time, they might disappear, while the more junior staff take over with the more tactical implementation of projects. So first of all, we may have lost contact with those senior people, but they are aware of us, they do know that we are their supplier, or you may see them now and again, at different types of meetings, but they're not really day to day contacts and you want to speak to them, you want to reach them, but you really don't want to upset the person that you're dealing with on a day to day basis. So if you conduct a yearly client listening study, you can invite these people to give you feedback. And&nbsp; I always recommend using first of all, if you want to carry this out, internally, then maybe it's this senior member of your senior leadership team who could conduct those interviews with these senior client leads, and ask them for feedback, what's going well, what have been some of the challenges? What can we do better? But also use that opportunity of interviewing them to talk about their business. What are your future plans? What do you have coming up in the future? What can we help with? How can we help more? And how can we add value?&nbsp; Alternatively, if you don't have someone internally that has the capacity to do that, or, or perhaps isn't in a position to do that, then I would always recommend using an external consultancy, like Relationship Audit &amp; Management, they are hugely experienced in carrying out client audits. They have a huge amount of benchmarking data, they have a question set that is very, very well established. And these guys really know their stuff. They sit down with your client, and they listen for what's not being said. They ask the difficult questions, and they will squeeze the information from the client, and they will come back with some gold. And so you're getting a perspective on how the client sees you. And what what success looks like for them, maybe some of the areas that they see are your development areas. And that will give you the information you need to decide what is going to be the right approach. And it sets the ball in motion for you to do a follow up meeting with that senior person to thank them for participating in the study. And in my experience of dealing with Relationship Audits &amp; Management, I invited them in to audit a relationship that I had at while I was at Publicis and that the information that they shared with me after that audit, which was really painful, by the way, because it wasn't particularly glowing. And then the action points that we took as a result of that feedback that we got really allowed us to extend that relationship by at least two years. It was massively valuable exercise and hugely valuable to the company. And that's why when I left Publicis, I went to work for the consultancy, Relationship Audits &amp; Management for about nine months. And I was carrying out these audits myself. And I was quite surprised at how clients really open up to an external third party. And they tell you stuff that they might not be telling you to your face in the agency. So regardless of whether you want to reach more senior people, I just think carrying out yearly audits of your relationships is really good practice. So that's the first one.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>The second one</strong> is to decide whether you have a good relationship with the procurement department. So some of your clients, particularly the large clients, will have a procurement function. And, you know, it's really procurement are the linchpins, within any organisation, they have access to all of the decision makers, and they're really great to get on board to help you navigate the organisation. Now this might not be relevant for you if your client organisation isn't big enough to have a dedicated procurement team. But certainly, if you are looking at how to reach more senior people, then make sure that you establish a relationship with procurement. And I do have a podcast episode dedicated exclusively to how to navigate procurement,&nbsp; how to establish relationships with procurement. <a href="https://accountmanagementskills.com/how-to-approach-develop-relationships-with-procurement/">So I will include that link to that episode in the show notes</a>. But certainly procurement are people who could open doors to more senior clients.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>The third way</strong> is to conduct a quarterly business review, if you're not already doing it,&nbsp; and I'm not talking about a weekly status meeting on the status of the project. I'm talking about creating opportunity to sit down with your client and their senior team on a quarterly basis so that not only is can you evaluate how far you've come with the current scope of work, to make sure everything's on track, maybe review metrics, but also for it to be forward focused, you know, what, what projects do they have coming up in the future. And also, it's an opportunity for us to be proactive and bring some insights, market trends, maybe customer insights, competitor information, things that are changing in the external environment that will be valuable to our clients. So it's certainly not a passive meeting. It's very much about future focus, and most quarterly business review meetings and it doesn't have to be called the quarterly business review it could be a, you know, a quarterly strategy session. But essentially, it's where you would have more senior leaders. And also, if you've made changes to the agency, maybe you've acquired another agency yourself or you've hired a new team, and you're now offering a new service, it's an opportunity to update the client on what you're doing. So again, a quarterly business review is typically attended by the senior clients. And therefore, that could be an idea for you to propose to the client, that you conduct one on a quarterly basis. And also going back to the previous point, procurement are often facilitating these types of meetings. So that's idea number three.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Number four</strong>, is to create something of value for their senior clients. And it could be a senior executive briefing around future trends that you've spotted, industry changes, legal implications coming up that you want the client to be prepared for, again, external environment focused, future value creation focus. And you could create a webinar, a round table event. And you could say to your client contact, you know, we're offering this senior briefing session and this is typically attended by more senior clients. So, you know, who would that be from your, from your side, I can give you a quick executive briefing now to give you the highlights of what we'll be covering on that. And then you are equipping your key contact to then find out on their side who those most relevant clients would be, and who would be most interested in attending that.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>And then finally, number five</strong> is to consider who do you have on your team at a more senior level, that could be introduced via your contact to a more senior level client on the client side. So let's suppose you're dealing with a marketing manager, and you want to really understand who the Chief Marketing Officer is, you'd like to create contact with them, then instead of you being that point of contact, perhaps you ask for your CEO or your managing director to be introduced to their Chief Marketing Officer. And then they can have a peer to peer relationship. And then you maintain the peer to peer relationship with the marketing manager. It goes without saying that you want to do your research online beforehand to understand who all the individuals are, you can always ask for an organigram to understand the names of people and contacts. You can also look on LinkedIn, to find out who the individuals are that you need to establish a relationship with, and also consider connecting with them on LinkedIn.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>So I hope that's given you a few ideas to consider when thinking about trying to establish relationships with more senior clients. There are a few more ideas, which we cover in the <a href="https://accountmanagementskills.com/training/">Account Accelerator</a> programme. So if you're interested in finding out more, it's all about creating a plan, a client centric plan, to increase your revenue from your existing clients. And I will be running that in September 2021 again, so if you're interested in more details, please get in contact. It's Jenny Plant on LinkedIn, or <a href="mailto:jenny@accountmanagementskills.com">jenny@accountmanagementskills.com</a>. Until the next time, see you soon.<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 08 Jun 2021 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/58rzvq28.mp3" length="14328079" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/82b42380-c6d9-11eb-81dc-cb4e17be633a/82b424a0-c6d9-11eb-af5d-af96d83e170b.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>716</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 34. One of the things that account managers who come on my Account Accelerator programme tell me is that they have a barrier to growing existing business, because they don't feel like they're talking to the decision maker. They say that their client contact is not senior enough, or a major decision maker, and therefore, are not really going to be open to new thoughts, new ideas, and have any authority to open the door to other people within the organisation, or to say yes or no to new ideas that they're presenting. So today's episode is all about how do we reach more senior people within the same organisation, without upsetting your key contact.

I hope this episode gives you a few ideas to consider when thinking about trying to establish relationships with more senior clients. There are a few more ideas, which we cover in the Account Accelerator programme. So if you're interested in finding out more, it's all about creating a client centric plan to increase your revenue from your existing clients. And I will be running that in September 2021 again, so if you're interested in more details, please get in contact. It's Jenny Plant on LinkedIn, or jenny@accountmanagementskills.com.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 34. One of the things that account managers who come on my Account Accelerator programme tell me is that they have a barrier to growing existing business, because they don't feel like they're talking to the decision maker. They say that their client contact is not senior enough, or a major decision maker, and therefore, are not really going to be open to new thoughts, new ideas, and have any authority to open the door to other people within the organisation, or to say yes or no to new ideas that they're presenting. So today's episode is all about how do we reach more senior people within the same organisation, without upsetting your key contact.

I hope this episode gives you a few ideas to consider when thinking about trying to establish relationships with more senior clients. There are a few more ideas, which we cover in the Account Accelerator programme. So if you're interested in finding out more, it's all about creating a client centric plan to increase your revenue from your existing clients. And I will be running that in September 2021 again, so if you're interested in more details, please get in contact. It's Jenny Plant on LinkedIn, or jenny@accountmanagementskills.com.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
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    <item>
      <title>How to deal with difficult clients, with Dr Mark Goulston</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/2nx95kq8</link>
      <itunes:title>How to deal with difficult clients, with Dr Mark Goulston</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>33</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">61mxw730</guid>
      <description>This episode's for you if you have a difficult client situation to manage. At some point or other as an agency account manager, we have to manage difficult clients. It's kind of part of the job. And in this interview, I love how Dr. Mark Goulston weaves some practical tips and examples of how to manage difficult people into his engaging stories. If you're old enough to remember the OJ Simpson case, like I am, he also shares how he was subpoenaed to appear at the trial, and how he handled the moment the lawyer tried to bully him. I highly recommend Mark's book, 'Just Listen', it really does include loads of tips for managing difficult clients.
(NB: This episode was recorded and published before the death of F Lee Bailey on 3rd June 2021)

If you're in an agency account management role, or maybe you have a team of account managers, and you want to have a roadmap and a playbook to grow those existing accounts by adding more value, expanding the relationships and also being comfortable asking for referrals, then check out my account accelerator programme. It starts again in September 2021. And you can find out more details by going to my website, www.accountmanagementskills.com/training or drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:<br></strong><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>00:00<br><br></div><div>So I am delighted that <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/markgoulston/">Dr. Mark Goulston</a> has decided to join me again, I'm absolutely thrilled to have him on the show. I had such a great response from the last interview. So I'm really excited about diving into this one. So a little bit of background on Mark. Dr. Mark Goulston was a UCLA professor of psychiatry for over 25 years, and a former FBI and police hostage negotiation trainer. He's a popular speaker and the author of several best best selling books, including '<a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Just-Listen-Discover-Getting-Absolutely/dp/B083JJT7SL/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&amp;keywords=just+listen+goulston&amp;qid=1621955509&amp;s=books&amp;sr=1-1">Just Listen</a>', which I have in my hands here, which I'm reading for the second time, which is still blowing me away today. '<a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Talking-Crazy-Irrational-Impossible-People/dp/0814436366">Talking to Crazy</a>', which is on my next reading list, '<a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Real-Influence-Persuade-Without-Pushing/dp/B083JLBQXV/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&amp;keywords=real+influence+goulston&amp;qid=1621955536&amp;s=books&amp;sr=1-1">Real Influence</a>' and '<a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Get-Out-Your-Own-Self-Defeating-ebook/dp/B093GPT7HB/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3C9DJ40INHZB6&amp;dchild=1&amp;keywords=get+out+of+your+own+way&amp;qid=1621955562&amp;s=books&amp;sprefix=get+out+of+your+own%2Cstripbooks%2C553&amp;sr=1-1">Get Out of Your Own Way</a>'. And Mark, 'Get Out of Your Own Way', am I right in thinking, it's been in the market for 25 years. And it's now currently in the top 10 bestselling books on the Wall Street Journal?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>00:54<br><br></div><div>Right, it made the top 10 this past week for non fiction ebooks. And it was 10. But it squeezed its way in there. Hey, top 10 is top 10.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>01:06<br><br></div><div>Well, that is unbelievable after being out there for so long. And Mark hosts the extremely popular podcast '<a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/my-wakeup-call-with-dr-mark-goulston/id1439752757">My Wakeup Call with Dr. Mark Goulston</a>', where he's interviewed prominent figures like radio and TV host, Larry King, who was also a good friend of Mark's, and leadership guru, Ken Blanchard. He also has a regular LinkedIn live stream called 'No Strings Attached'. He's the inventor of Surgical Empathy, a process for getting through to anyone by going to their psychological core, and unlocking what's holding them back. His unique background has made him an indispensable and sought after expert and change facilitator to Fortune 500 leaders, entrepreneurs and educators. I'm really honoured to dive in today to my questions to Mark. So Mark, welcome to the show.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>01:55<br><br></div><div>That is so much to live up to.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>01:59<br><br></div><div>But I haven't even mentioned other things that you're doing. You just sound... And I know that you have a course which I would really love to talk about later if that's okay.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>02:07<br><br></div><div>Absolutely.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>02:08<br><br></div><div>Great. So Mark, my audience is principally agency account managers. They're managing client relationships on a day to day basis. And one of the big things that agency account managers tell me is they struggle with difficult clients sometimes. And I know that you've got so many different strategies and advice and stories to share where you can help. So I would love to dive into some questions. Is that okay with you?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>02:37<br><br></div><div>Can I give a tip that right out of the gate?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>02:41<br><br></div><div>Sure.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>02:42<br><br></div><div>So I've been doing a presentation to some accelerators and accelerators, these have about 15 startup companies. And recently, I've been speaking to them about how do you pitch to an investor? But this could also be the challenge for your agencies when they're talking or pitching something to a difficult person. So, you'll have to adapt this but one of the things I said to these start-ups is I said when you're pitching your company to an investor and they smile, do you think it's a yes? And they say "yes". Well how often does this smile turn into, "what's our next step, where do we begin?" And the start-ups said "never". I said that's because investors do not smile. Now, your difficult client, in all likelihood, don't smile. But if you get a sense that you're having a conversation and it's getting worse, what you say, but you have to say this with some confidence, you say, "Can we press pause right now?" Don't say it, say it assertively, but not... And they're going to go "What?" "Yeah, can we press pause?" And that's going to disarm them. And what I said to the startups in the accelerator, they said when you're talking to an investor, but you might be able to use this with a difficult client, I say, when they pause, you could say "when we started this conversation, we were like this. You're an investor, you have money. I'm a company that needs money or if you're selling to client from agencies. You're a client that needs marketing or advertising or something to get your name out. And I'm one of those companies that can do that for you. And we started like this unless you were just being polite, which I am sure you're too busy for that. And guess what? Our conversation has gone like this". And this is you the investor, this is me the company, this is you the potential client, me, the agency. And "what's happened is we started off like this, and you were listening for something or looking for something and we didn't cover it". And they're gonna go" What?" "Yeah, yeah, I think we started out equal, otherwise, you would have cancelled the appointment. But you were listening for something or looking for something, and we didn't cover it. Now, obviously, when I prepared for this, I tried to sense what your needs and wants are. And you know, what's most important to you? But I didn't get it right, so can you fill me in and tell me what that is?" And you have to practice this. And you get, and what's going to happen is you have confidence. And they're going to go "what?", you could say, "Yeah, what are you looking for and listening for?" Now, if it's a client, you can pause and say, "Can I tell you what other potential clients have said to me when I asked them this question?" And by this, what's happened is you have disarmed them. They're a little bit discombobulated and they go "Yeah". "Like, I don't know if you can relate to this. But what some of my other clients have said, is, when they buy a service, it really needs to exceed expectations. Because when they bring in a service, and it doesn't work out their boss is on them. Why did you buy that? Why did you get us into that? And so I don't know if you've ever been through that, you know, potential client. But can you understand how someone would be thinking that, that what they're listening for? Is this going to be something that if I say yes to, I won't regret it?" Is this and can I tell you something else that the client's say, and by this time, if you practice this, they are hypnotised. They may even lean in&nbsp; and say "give me a little more".&nbsp; What they're really listening for, looking for is they're bringing in a service that does so well, that they get a promotion. They're listening for something that at their next performance review, their boss says, you know, that service that you brought in, you got for our company, sales have exploded, and I'm getting a raise, and so are you. So can you understand how they might be listening for that? Can you see how this changes things?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>08:02<br><br></div><div>I love that for so many reasons. I think it interrupts the pattern to start with, doesn't it you, you grab their attention? Because one way or another, you've lost their attention, then you're talking about what other clients are doing. And in my experience, people lean in, say, well, what's everybody else doing? So and it shows assertiveness, I think that's the key thing, Mark. I love that. That's a great pattern interrupt. And it reminds me actually of you, you refer to your in your book, 'Just Listen', you refer to the Stipulation Gambit. And in your book you described a boy that had a stutter, who was going for a job interview, and job interviews weren't going so well. And he wasn't getting the jobs. And I don't know if you remember this story, because I know you wrote the book so long ago. But you suggested that rather than letting people pick up the fact he had a stutter, during the interview, that at the beginning of the interview, he said, Listen, you know, I have this problem. I stutter. And sometimes I don't know when it's gonna happen. And what you're describing there, is this pattern interrupt, isn't it kind of tapping the brakes? Do you mind if we pause things? And do you think, I can imagine someone listening to this Mark and thinking, wow, have I got the confidence to say, Can we just pause for a minute? Do you think that there might be people out there that would? Well I only because I know so many account managers that might be worried about doing that.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>09:38<br><br></div><div>Well, you have to practice it because it's not so much the words, it's the tone. There's something that I talk about, I believe, in 'Just Listen', and in 'Talking To Crazy'. It's called the 'wince confrontation'. And what that means is when you're going to confront someone with something that they may not want to hear or may not like to hear, you want to wince as if 'it pains me to have to say this', so the wince confrontation would be instead of being overly confrontational you wince and you go, can we pause for a second? And that's what I call, I have all these terms assertive vulnerability, when you say, "Can we pause for a second?" One of the best examples of assertive vulnerability, and I've coached leaders, many places. And there's a phrase that I say, is the best expression of assertive vulnerability with your people, with your investors, if they're getting a little bit nervous, how, because of stock price, and you say, with this tone, I need your help with something. It's not like waah, waah, I need your help. It's, I need your help with something. And when you, or, I'd like your help with something? And can you see that when you say it that way, it's going to generally cause the other person at least to be curious. At the very least, they're not going to be afraid of you, because you're not assaulting them. You're saying, I'd like your help with something.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>11:23<br><br></div><div>It plays into someone's feeling of helping to lean in, doesn't it? And so you're making yourself slightly vulnerable by inviting them to help you. So again, I think that's a fantastic way of managing the client relationship. Mark, tell me you also just happened to drop in the book, that you were at the OJ Simpson murder trial, as a kind of psychiatrist there, that had been asked to be there. And this story, specifically related to bullying. Can you remember the story? Because I'd love to hear it from you. When you were effectively being bullied by one of the lawyers, I think he was trying to bully you.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>12:06<br><br></div><div>Yeah, so I'm not sure how many people in your area followed the trial. But most people seem to follow the trial, at least in America. And I was an advisor to the prosecution. And so that meant that I would come to the court probably 25-30 times during the whole trial. And I would make observations that to me were hidden in plain sight. And they said, We don't want you in our strategy sessions, because you just see things we don't see. So I faxed them probably 220 pages, but it was a double murder. I'm not someone who's going to turn it into a book, what I faxed to the OJ Simpson trial, people say you're crazy. Everybody else wrote one. But, you know, being somewhat empathic, this was a double murder. This is not a circus. In fact, when I leave the courtroom, I would go out the side door, because there were other advisors who would go out the front door and wave off the press. And I said, this is, there's something wrong about this. And so there was one day, September 5 1995, in which 80% of what I know about dealing with difficult people I learned. And on that day, there was a participant in the OJ Simpson trial, a Detective Mark Fuhrman. And during the middle of the trial, he came off like John Wayne, and there was a famous lawyer F Lee Bailey, who had promised the world that he was going to break him. And he didn't break them during the cross examine in the middle of the trial. And they subpoenaed me during the middle of the trial. But the building I worked in conveniently fell down in the earthquake, and there was no building. So I never got the subpoena. I have it on my wall somewhere, but it never came to me. And so the trial moved on, and they couldn't find me. And so it was the end of the trial. And if any of you remembered, I know it's really old. This police officer Detective Mark Fuhrman and was associated with having never saying he'd never said the N word, that awful word, it's still awful when you hear it. And so what happened on that date, he was downstairs in the courtroom, and I was sequestered upstairs. So I didn't know what was going on. The rest of the world was watching him take the Fifth Amendment because he didn't want to incriminate himself. And I didn't know that was going on because if he hadn't incriminated himself,F Lee Bailey was going to question me about, you know, if I'd coached him if I'd done anything, I didn't do anything. I did send faxes to the prosecution, but they never really told me what they use.&nbsp; And so it's 7pm. And F Lee Bailey and one of Johnnie Cochran associates, Carl Douglas come in. And I am being accompanied by Bill Hodgman. He was one of the prosecutors who started off in the trial with Marcia Clark. And an interesting thing happened about 4pm. You know, I'm there all alone, you know, sequestered. And I got a little paranoid, I thought, they're setting me up, what's going on down there. And so I didn't know what was going to go on. And I don't even know why he came up to interview me because&nbsp; after Detective Fuhrman took the Fifth Amendment, there was no reason to ask me anything. But he came up anyway. So what happened between four and 5pm. And I think I have a little crazy something in my head, I push myself into situations that scare me. And I never panic, I get smarter. I mean, I must have a screw loose in my head. And one of these days, I'm going to discover the secret to peace on earth. And I'm gonna have a stroke and die with a smile on my face. I mean, it's crazy. But anyway, so I figured out F Lee Bailey, and in that time, I figured out 80%, of what difficult people do. And so F Lee Bailey comes in around 7pm with Carl Douglas. And there's Bill Hodgman. And what I realised is all difficult people. And these are not only the bullies and the venters. These are the whiners, these are the people who are sullen. These are the people that drive you crazy. Which is why I wrote 'Talking to Crazy'. So,&nbsp; he comes in. And what I did is like sort of fiddled around with my paperwork. And because I wanted to lull him into a false sense of security. So he's seated across the table from me, and he says Dr. Goulston, Dr. Goulston, and I'm kind of fuddling like this. And Bill Hodgman says, "Mark, Mr. Bailey's here to ask you some questions". And then I swear, I looked up at him, and I grabbed on to his eyes, the way I'm looking at your eyes See, when I look and grab onto someone's eyes, I can take them anywhere, like I'm doing with you. And so I held on to his eyes. And I learned that by the way by because I was a suicide prevention specialist. And I would grab on to the eyes of someone who is wanting to kill themselves. And I'd hold on to their eyes with this thing called surgical empathy. And I would say, you're not going anywhere. So it came from a good place that I learned to, to hold on to people's eyes. So picture this, I'm holding on to his eyes. And then he says "Dr. Goulston, we don't exactly know your role. We know you've been here through different times in the trial, and we're here to ask you about things about Detective Mark Fuhrman". And here's something else I learned. When people use innuendo. He wasn't asking me a question. What they do is they say something and they try to get you to go Uh huh. Uh huh, huh. And innuendo is like putting a hook in your neck and reeling you in. And so he says those things, but instead of saying, haha, I had this eye contact, I go. And so instead of going, aha, I blink. He does this for a few minutes. And Bill Hodgman looks at me. And he says, "Mark, you haven't said anything". And I looked at Bill and I said "he hasn't asked me a question". I mean, I really figure this whole thing up. And so F Lee Bailey, at that point kind of flinched a little bit, because, you know, I guess he thought, Oh, this is a different kind of conversation. And I kept holding on to his eyes. And when I looked in his eyes, my thought was, I'm not perfect, but I'm not protecting a double murderer. What's your story? So that's exactly what I was thinking the whole time. And then what happens is all difficult people&nbsp; they push us from frustration, to anger, to outrage, because if they can push us into outrage, we will do whatever we can to keep from getting enraged, unless you're happy with being enraged, but a lot of people are uncomfortable getting enraged. And so when you're using all this energy to keep down how enraged you feel. And this can be someone who's whining, this could be someone who's sullen. So he's escalating. And there's a point at which he says, as he said in the trial, "so you're here to say", as he said, with Detective Furhman earlier in the trial, he said to him, "so you're here to say that you never said the N word". And those were the famous part of the trial. And during the cross exam that's what Detective Fuhrman said. So F Lee Bailey looks at me and says, "so you're here to say that you never coached, medicated or did anything to affect Detective Furhman's testimony?". So he's pushing me, you know, into my rage, because he picked up speed. So are you tracking with me on this?&nbsp; And so he reaches that point, where I'm supposed to be provoked. And I look at his eyes. And I pause for seven seconds. And I haven't let go of his eyes for the entire time. And it's seven seconds. I can see the people in the room are all waiting for me to answer. It's like this EF Hutton commercial, what's Mark going to say? And I go 'ahem', and everyone leans in, oh, he's going to talk. And I think to myself, this is going so well. I count to seven again. And then I said, and then I used innuendo. I said, "Mr. Bailey", he goes, "Uh huh?".<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>21:38<br><br></div><div>You were reeling him in.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>21:42<br><br></div><div>I said "my mind wandered the last five minutes. And it sounded important what you were talking about? Can you repeat everything you said?"<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>21:57<br><br></div><div>You knew he was being a bully, and trying to manipulate you. But you knew what his game was?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>22:02<br><br></div><div>Yeah, which is to provoke me off balance and go for the jugular, which is what difficult people do. And he goes, "huh?" I said, "Yeah, my mind wandered, my car is parked in a lot. And it's locked. And I don't know if I can get it out. But it sounded important what you were talking about. You want to run it by me the last five, six minutes". So he looks over at Carl Douglas, as if to say what did I say? Because if you're a bully, and we won't mention certain political leaders in the world, when you bully people, and you get them so upset and angry and off balance, you didn't have to have substance because they're so busy trying to protect themselves. And then you just go and push them off balance. So that's that was his M.O. and this is the M.O. of a lot of difficult people. And then after a couple of minutes, he looked at Bill Hodgman and says "I don't think we have any questions to ask. Dr. Goulston, I don't think we need to bring him on the stand". And then as he gets up to leave, I said, "Mr. Bailey, I have a question for you". And Bill Hodgman says "Mark, Mark, it's the end of the trial. It's okay". And,&nbsp; I said, and he looks at me. And then he looked at Bill Hodgman, like, Who's your little friend? And I said, "You know in the trial, they said, you know, you can't unring a bell that once the N word came out, that's what was on people's minds?" And he goes, "Yeah", I said, "Well, yesterday, you accused me of having a relationship with Detective Mark Fuhrman. You know, that's out in the news". And I didn't have any relationship with him. And he is probably the most despised racist cop in America today. And Bill Hodgman says "Mark, Mark, they didn't spell your name, right. It's okay. Just let it go." And I said, "just like you can't unring a bell, you slurred my name yesterday, do you have any idea how we could unslur a slur?" And he looks at me like, like, what the heck is going on? And so he leaves the room. And I gather my little papers together and he comes back and he looks at me and he says," I will trade you a retraction in tomorrow's newspaper, if you tell me what you figured out about me".<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>24:27<br><br></div><div>What did he say?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>24:30<br><br></div><div>I shrug my shoulders because, you know, I didn't care. You know, I? I didn't tell them what I figured out about him. But what's the lesson from this and thank you for your rapt attention. I guess it's a decent story. But you know what it teaches is all difficult people get to us. Because if we have trouble really feeling enraged, they can do things that are so appalling, are so exasperating, that they push us into wanting to say cruel things mean things. And we're uncomfortable with that. Plus, we're afraid that if we say that it'll really provoke them further. So here's how you deal with difficult people. And if you're listening, I have an exercise for you. And I don't know if you can do this on your, on your phone. But the exercise is take out a piece of paper,&nbsp; draw a line down the middle of it. And on the left side, write down all the people that are difficult in your life. And on the right side, write down the list of all the people that are wonderful. First thing you have to do is make a commitment to thank those people who are wonderful in your life. Because a lot of times we just focus on the people that are difficult. But if we shortchange the people that are wonderful by failing to thank them, failing to be grateful to them, it's letting the bad people win. Now, with all those people on the left side, when you interact with them, never expect them not to be difficult. If they are fine, then consider that gravy. But always expect them to do something, say something, push back and hold a little bit of yourself back. And when they say that, let them say it because they're doing it to manipulate you or bully you. And you can say to them. "Could you repeat that again? Or you could say, could you say that over to me? Because the way you said it and got my mind all triggered? I couldn't even listen". Or you can say "it sounded important it,&nbsp; could you try that with a calmer voice so I could listen to what you said, because it sounded important." And I like using the word important because it flatters people. And almost no one tells people they're important. So you can try those things. Probably the easiest thing to do is when they do that, or say that, especially if they're venting is to go, Huh, just tilt your head and go Huh. But what will happen is they will, they may escalate. And, if they do, you could say "yeah, and that sounded important, too. Can you repeat that again?"<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>27:40<br><br></div><div>Wouldn't that enrage them more if you say, because I'm thinking in a client scenario, if the client is coming at me, is bullying me? You know, maybe they're being aggressive? Or, you know, directive? How would I do that in a polite way?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>27:56<br><br></div><div>Well, you want to, if someone's bullying you, what you have to do is you need to make a commitment to yourself that you will not be bullied. If you lose the account, you're going to have to say to your boss, you know, I know you want me to close this deal. But the person is a bully. And if you're, if your boss says I don't care, you know, they're a customer, a client. Well, then your boss is being a little bit of a bully. But then you can say to your boss, you can say okay, I get it's a big client, coach me through it. When they say such and such and such and such. So here are some other things you can do that are disarming, that might be easier to do. And when they say whatever they say, you can say to them, again, pause for at least two seconds. Because if you get provoked, they have the better view. And you can look at them and say "what's that about?" And they're gonna say "what?" "Yeah, that to. What do you mean?" And they're going to be disarmed because they didn't succeed. You could say "what, what happened? What happened to you, you know that you're getting it off your chest in this conversation. Something must have happened to you that you're getting it off the chest in this conversation, because we don't even know each other. You know, and can you tell me what that might be?"<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>29:43<br><br></div><div>So you're calling it out, you're calling out their behaviour, rather than just sucking it up and trying to respond. You first of all, refuse to be bullied and then second, call out the behaviour straightaway. Because the bully doesn't like to be you know, they'll choose somebody else probably wouldn't they?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>30:01<br><br></div><div>That's what they'll do. They'll exactly do that. And it's interesting. Oprah Winfrey has a brand new book out with a Dr. Bruce Perry. And if you go to <a href="https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oprah-winfrey-treating-childhood-trauma/">60 Minutes Overtime</a> - Oprah Winfrey - trauma informed treatment. So I think she did a book with Dr. Bruce Perry because she did a story on his programme. And in 60 Minutes Overtime, a reporter asked her about it. And she said, it was the most game changing and life changing story I've ever done now apparently was because she just wrote a book with them. And it's in the New York Times bestseller list. And when the person asked Oprah, "what was so game changing about?" She said that," you know, when you do trauma informed therapy, your approach to people is that when they act out or act up as kids do, something happened to them to cause that?"&nbsp; So unless a person is dyed in the wool, evil, and really angry people are not necessarily evil, something happened to them to trigger it. So Oprah Winfrey's whole approach now is what happened to you? What happened to you to cause that? And apparently, she was owning up to the fact that that was something that when people acted up, she wasn't that pleasant.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>31:34<br><br></div><div>Wow. And this concept of trauma? Can you give me some examples of what might have been a triggering a triggering trauma to for someone to start behaving in a way that they become a bully? Like what could have happened to them?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>31:51<br><br></div><div>Well, you know, abused children become abusers. And a lot of times what happens is when they're children they were the target of abuse, or they watch one parent abuse the other. And they felt a combination of fear, terror, fragile, and inside, they said to themselves, when I get older, no one's going to do this to me. Or what they noticed is that the bully in the family if it wasn't bullying them, if one parent bullied the other, they may grow up and say, Well, I guess the way you get your way is to bully people. And so what happened is they probably noticed it going on in their life. And, and again, we make a promise to ourselves unconsciously when I get older, I'm not going to do that. In fact, I want to make a segue, because you did mention, I have a course out if you go to himalaya.com/defeat. And actually, if you put in a promo code 'defeat', you'll be able to see this audio class that recently launched called 'Defeating self defeat'. And in it I give 12 episodes. And so here's an example of what we're talking about childhood and trauma. In the first episode is about procrastinating. And when I talk about two procrastinators, is we procrastinate not because we're disorganised or lazy, we procrastinate because we're lonely. And the reason for that is when we were young children, we often did things that we didn't want to do that was really painful. And we made a promise to ourselves, when I get older, and I get out of the house, I'm not going to do something that's painful. I'm not going to feel powerless to not do it. And here's my proof that we procrastinate when we're lonely. All the AA programmes work because there's a community, you're not lonely in talking about things that have gone wrong. If you live on a college campus, and the fraternity or the dormitory, the sorority is really a pigsty. If you all say, Let's clean it up this Saturday, you'll do it. And here's something I think you'll find interesting. I was being interviewed by a radio host, lovely woman. And I said,"What is something you're procrastinating on?" She said, "Well, everybody says I should write a book. I've had a lot of interesting things in life." I said, "Well, how long have you been putting it off?" "Couple years." I said "Really?" I said, "here's what we're going to do. I said when would be the best time to write for half an hour?" She said "6:30 in the morning". So we're doing this on the air. And I said "here's what we're gonna do. I'm going to call you every morning at 6:30 in the morning, which is 3:30 in the morning, my time. And I'm going to say, No excuses, it's 3:30, I probably won't get back to sleep, I want you to get in front of your computer boot it up and tell me the question I should ask you to get you writing." So we did that for a month, I took the weekends off. And she told her listeners, you know, that crazy psychiatrist, he's doing it. Six months later, she says, "Where can I send the book?" But can you see how so there's different see how our childhood affects us. And,&nbsp; 'Defeating Self Defeat' <a href="http://www.himalaya.com/defeat">himalaya.com/defeat</a>. It's all filled with those kinds of, you know, kind of off the wall views of things that you might find helpful.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>36:00<br><br></div><div>I will include that link in the show notes. Thank you, that sounds really, and I would encourage everyone to do it. Because everything I read that you you put out into the world is just so thought provoking, and so practical as well. And in fact, I wanted to ask you another question, based on, you know, again, the account managers role managing the client relationship, you gave another story about your daughter, actually, she was going for a job interview. And you know, typically in a job interview, they ask you loads of questions. And then they say, Have you got a question for us? And you coached her to ask a question that left everybody dumbfounded. And I love the way you describe the story. Because you just you said, you can talk in a transactional way, you know, or you can talk in a transformational way, ask a transformational question. Do you remember the question that you? Could you tell the story?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>36:54<br><br></div><div>As long as you're in a transactional conversation, at the very best, you're a commodity, they're going to squeeze you on price. You're never going to get to where you're showing them value. But one of the ways to break a transactional conversation is to focus it into the future. Or actually, you can break it by going into their core, which we talked about, but what I did with my daughter, she said, Oh, I'm going to be having an informal conversation with someone from one of the big banking firms. It's not a formal interview, but we'll be you know, I get to meet him. And I guess we're going to sort of walk along the corridor or something. She said, "you always have these interesting questions". And I said, ask him, when he says, Do you have any questions? You know, in the conversation, she said, "I'd like you to imagine it six months from now, and you're meeting with your boss. And your boss says, Get us more people like you just hired. Because it was one of the best hires we've had in years. And so you, then imagine what the hire would need to look like, so that your boss would say that to you." So maybe what you say to a client, you can say, "Can I ask you a hypothetical question?" And hopefully, you know, even the difficult ones will be intrigued, or can I ask you a question you've never heard before? Okay. "Well, I'd like you to imagine, you know, you're having a performance review, like I have performance reviews. And, your boss says, you know, that agency that you brought in? They've done more for us than any agency we've had in years. Bring in more like that and I'm going to get a promotion, you're going to get a promotion." So you're asking your client, what would you need to accomplish? So that's what your boss tells you what your next performance review, what does the agency do? How do they do it? Is it just numbers? Is it that they the customer service is amazing? I mean, what exactly would that agency that you hire look like? So that your boss would say, That's amazing.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>36:56<br><br></div><div>It's a such a powerful question, Mark. And I think you're right, it's taking them to a future state, and then saying what needs to have happened? So one of my account managers, this is what I I talked to them about is if you're starting with a new client for the first time, you can say something like for you to turn around to me in six months time and say, do you know what, I'm so glad you took over this account, what needs to have happened. And I think the trick here is to go quiet, isn't it and to listen, and allow them to paint a picture of what they see is successful. Because they might draw up all sorts of old problems that they've had with previous agencies, you know, I just want you to get it right, get it accurate. Or I need you to make sure that, you know, you're keeping me informed, whatever is important to them, they will tell you, and then that becomes the benchmark for your relationship success.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>40:39<br><br></div><div>I would build on what they say. So one of the things that we talked about in 'Just Listen' about how to open people up, is focus on hyperbole. When they say amazing, awful terrible, or they raise their voice. That's the tip of the iceberg. And if you can get them to open up more, they're going to want more of you. So when they say, well, the last agency did this, and it was really horrible. Say, let them say that you say, say more about the horrible. So in other words, be sensitive to what they're saying that has some emotional juice on it. Because normally, they're expecting you to get defensive, or we won't do that. Or, you must have been frustrated. Now you say, say more about? What what made it horrible. And then when they say that, keep them talking. Here's another thing, but this is you got to take this with a grain of salt, because I'm a psychiatrist. When they say what was horrible? Look at them, you could say, did you, what did you feel more frustrated, angry or disappointed? Because when you get someone to say, an emotional word that's accurate, and they attach it to an event, they calm down. And they're grateful to you for asking.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>42:20<br><br></div><div>Mark, do you think we are losing the art of conversation with everyone corresponding by email? Because in my training courses, I often have scenarios, and I'm literally giving them the words that they could use. And that becomes a lot of what we end up talking about. So what's your view? I mean, you know, having worked with so many people and so many successful people, do you think the younger generation particularly are transacting a lot via the written word rather than these communication skills? I'm really curious to know your view.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>42:58<br><br></div><div>I think what's happened, but again, you got to take what I say with a grain of baby boomer. I think what's happened is that algorithms have replaced empathy. And what's happened is, empathy takes too much effort. People don't have the skills to actually communicate empathically everybody seems to be in a rush. And yet, what will happen is, you know, if you read the newspaper, everyone's in a rush, and then you read the newspaper, loneliness is up, depression is up, anxiety is up. And by the way, one of the reasons they're all up and what I'm trying to push out into the world. And this is just the taste of neuroscience when our stress is up and we feel anxious and depressed, or stressed that our cortisol is up. Cortisol is a stress hormone. And, you can lower cortisol by by meditation, mindfulness, but what really lowers it is someone caring about your feelings. Because when you, when someone cares about your feelings, it releases oxytocin and oxytocin counteracts high cortisol. So if you can fit into a conversation, and they're upset about a prior agency could say, just curious, were you more frustrated, angry or disappointed? Whatever they say. And you just hear it. Now you can't go transactionally and then go back to selling them. When they say that, you could say,&nbsp; that must have been really stressful. Oh, it was. I actually have an article out there just came out in Newsweek. I'm part of the, I'm a founding member of the news week expert forum. And I think you'll especially like this, so I hope you'll put a link to it. It's called '<a href="https://www.newsweek.com/teaching-transactional-people-power-empathy-1593834">Teaching transactional people the power of empathy</a>'.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>45:11<br><br></div><div>Wow. That sounds fantastic. I definitely will include that link. And can you give us one tip from that article?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>45:22<br><br></div><div>Well, I can, I can. Well, your time is my time or my time is your time. So what I basically said, because I believe people listen to stories, you know, hopefully, the OJ Simpson story was interesting enough that people didn't tune out, Now there'll be some people who are transactional and say, I don't even know who OJ Simpson is. But in that story on Newsweek, what I talk about is imagine that you have a pushy boss in sales, and they're on you. And they basically say, Don't bring me excuses, bring me results. Or I'm depending on you, and everything you've used, doesn't work. Every sales approach doesn't work. You ask people, they don't know what to do. And your boss, probably because someone's pressuring him or her is still on your back. You don't want to yell at work, because you'll get into trouble. You don't want to yell at home, because you know, you'll create a ruckus in the family. And then what I talk about is, but there's one point where you go home, and you lose that in you vent. So imagine your spouse reacting unempathically and saying, "You can't talk to me that way". You know, "how dare you" and then they, and they then they sort of huff off. Now you might calm down after that. But imagine if they said in instead, like, "Oh my god, what happened to you? What happened? This is not who I believe, this is not who you are, what happened to you?" And then you start to vent, and imagine they get you to open up and you vent more? What's going to happen? And again, they don't get into a transactional escalation is you get to vent and your spouse pulls it out of you. "Wow, what was the worst part of that? Oh, my god, did you get scared?" "Well, I don't know. I don't know if I'm gonna be able to make this". But can you see how you calm down with empathy? So that's the story. It's a short article. And then afterwards, I talk about how you can apply that to your customers and clients.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>47:38<br><br></div><div>Sounds spot on, thank you so much for sharing. Mark, I want to be respectful of your time, you've been so generous to give me your time. So thank you so much. I think I was spellbound, particularly about the OJ Simpson case, I literally picked that up in the book and I just thought, are there no ends to what Mark is doing? So we will certainly include a link to the course. And it was himalaya.com/defeat. And I'm going to include a link to that. And is there anything else that you'd like to include in the show notes or anything else you've got coming up that we could plug?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>48:14<br><br></div><div>Well, my podcast, 'My Wakeup Call' is actually picking up speed. I interviewed Jordan Peterson.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>48:21<br><br></div><div>I love Jordan Peterson.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>48:24<br><br></div><div>It's a great interview, when you listen to it. You know, he's very busy. And he's a little,&nbsp; kind of polite at first. And then after 40 minutes, I thanked him for his time. And it went so well he said, I have more time asked me another question. So we went another 30 minutes. So we had him on. And I'm going to be interviewing the Chief Marketing Officer of Deloitte. I just interviewed the CEO of the Philadelphia 76ers NBA team. So and I'm posting two a week and I just have too many lined up. But if you go to 'My Wakeup Call', Wakeup is one word. Hopefully you find them interesting. And it would really help you know, if you share them with other people, if you like them. And if you go to Apple podcasts and put up a review that seems to help the algorithm.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>49:25<br><br></div><div>Fantastic, Mark. I certainly will. And particularly for our audience, the CMO of Deloitte. Absolutely, that's another interview to listen to. So thank you for sharing so much value as always, Mark it's been an absolute pleasure. And I feel very honoured that you've spent more time with me, so thank you so much.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark&nbsp; </strong>49:42<br><br></div><div>Well, you know, there's a movie that's really old and your listeners won't know it but you might not because you're not old, but there was a movie called 'As Good As It Gets' with Jack Nicholson and Helen Hunt. And there's a famous scene in there, where Jack Nicholson says to Helen Hunt, who he so respects, like I respect you, he says, "You make me want to be a better man." And that's what you do.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>50:07<br><br></div><div>Oh Mark that's really heart melting. Thank you. And wow, what a blast from the past as well, I have seen it, I am old enough. So thank you so much, Mark. Absolutely fantastic.<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 01 Jun 2021 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/1wpp6m1w.mp3" length="56858038" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/6e458e60-bec1-11eb-96cd-3339eb77ebd2/6e458fa0-bec1-11eb-9ca5-2ff86e2d65e5.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2842</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>This episode's for you if you have a difficult client situation to manage. At some point or other as an agency account manager, we have to manage difficult clients. It's kind of part of the job. And in this interview, I love how Dr. Mark Goulston weaves some practical tips and examples of how to manage difficult people into his engaging stories. If you're old enough to remember the OJ Simpson case, like I am, he also shares how he was subpoenaed to appear at the trial, and how he handled the moment the lawyer tried to bully him. I highly recommend Mark's book, 'Just Listen', it really does include loads of tips for managing difficult clients.
(NB: This episode was recorded and published before the death of F Lee Bailey on 3rd June 2021)

If you're in an agency account management role, or maybe you have a team of account managers, and you want to have a roadmap and a playbook to grow those existing accounts by adding more value, expanding the relationships and also being comfortable asking for referrals, then check out my account accelerator programme. It starts again in September 2021. And you can find out more details by going to my website, www.accountmanagementskills.com/training or drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>This episode's for you if you have a difficult client situation to manage. At some point or other as an agency account manager, we have to manage difficult clients. It's kind of part of the job. And in this interview, I love how Dr. Mark Goulston weaves some practical tips and examples of how to manage difficult people into his engaging stories. If you're old enough to remember the OJ Simpson case, like I am, he also shares how he was subpoenaed to appear at the trial, and how he handled the moment the lawyer tried to bully him. I highly recommend Mark's book, 'Just Listen', it really does include loads of tips for managing difficult clients.
(NB: This episode was recorded and published before the death of F Lee Bailey on 3rd June 2021)

If you're in an agency account management role, or maybe you have a team of account managers, and you want to have a roadmap and a playbook to grow those existing accounts by adding more value, expanding the relationships and also being comfortable asking for referrals, then check out my account accelerator programme. It starts again in September 2021. And you can find out more details by going to my website, www.accountmanagementskills.com/training or drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to account manage in an independent full service agency, with Emma Blaken &amp; Matt Bonser</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/0nj7v118</link>
      <itunes:title>How to account manage in an independent full service agency, with Emma Blaken &amp; Matt Bonser</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>32</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">40pwy221</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 32. In this episode, I chat to Matt and Emma in the account management team at Purpose Media. They've shared with us their tips and insights into their role. And they've shared:

- how they approach client management
- how they run their discovery workshops 
- the key questions they asked their clients at the beginning of the relationship
- and how they always aim to position themselves as trusted advisors to their clients from the start. 

There's lots more. I think this chat will be particularly interesting for you if you are looking to get into the role of account manager or senior account manager in a full service independent agency. Or maybe you're already in that role, and you're curious to see how other account managers operate. 

Now, if you are an ambitious agency account manager and you really want to accelerate your career by improving your agency account management skills, then check out my Account Accelerator programme. The next cohort starts in September 21. You'll meet your peers and go through a 12 week programme, which is a clear roadmap and plan to add value to your existing accounts and increase revenue in 90 days. So if you want more information about that programme, then go over to www.accountmanagementskills.com/training.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:<br></strong><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>00:00<br><br></div><div>So today I'm delighted to have<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-bonser-90355653/"> Matt Bonser</a> and <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-blaken-099625122/">Emma Blaken</a> from <a href="https://www.purposemedia.co.uk/">Purpose Media</a>. Matt is a senior account manager there, and Emma is an account manager. And I've asked them to come on today to just share a day in the life, their experience and sort of share some of the processes they use at their agency. So Matt maybe I could pass over to you, first of all and ask the first question, can you tell me a bit about your role at Purpose Media?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>00:29<br><br></div><div>Yeah, certainly. So I suppose I head up the account management client services team, I suppose. Between myself and the rest of the team, we look after a selection of retainer clients that are probably split the team digital for service and it's my job between looking after the retainer and project clients that we deliver everything to the client brief, client expectation, and essentially be the client voice internally if you like, so it's my job to I guess, orchestrate all of that, work closely with the production team and actual specialists that are in house and make sure everything's up on brief and to standards as such. So that's it in a nutshell.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>01:11<br><br></div><div>And Emma, would you mind sharing, what does Purpose Media do?<br><br></div><div><strong>Emma&nbsp; </strong>01:17<br><br></div><div>So we are a full service marketing agency. So we do creative, digital, web, and video. And we've been full service now for the past five years. So prior to that we specialised in websites specifically, with a specialism in e-commerce. So a lot of our background is sort of centred around sort of the technical elements. And yeah, so certainly in the last year and a half, we've had a really heavy focus on digital and digital transformation. Given the kind of the current circumstances that are unfortunately still ongoing and you know, digital marketing has been a real big boom. And so that has been a great area of growth for us recently. And it's been great.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>02:06<br><br></div><div>Great. And Emma, you've got quite an interesting background, because you've not actually come up through the account management route in an agency, have you? So could you just share with us what your background is?<br><br></div><div><strong>Emma&nbsp; </strong>02:16<br><br></div><div>Yeah, absolutely. So, quite a colourful background. So I actually started, I have a broadcast journalism degree. And I then went into an agency for my first six months at a university as an internal marketing exec. I then actually took an in house marketing role at a manufacturing firm. So that was a three and a half year position. And during that time, I also had a year of product management as maternity leave cover. And then kind of my experience and knowledge of the solutions that this particular company offered, I then transitioned into an account manager. So I became the manager for certain key accounts that were my specialties. And then I also did my marketing qualification as I went through that time, as well. And that's when I made the decision to jump ship and take a role at a creative agency, because it was a combination of the skills that I'd acquired from my previous position, combining that with my general interests in my recent education in marketing and my communications and creative degree.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>03:29<br><br></div><div>And would you say that insight into the world of the client side, working has helped you in your current role?<br><br></div><div><strong>Emma&nbsp; </strong>03:35<br><br></div><div>Absolutely. Because I think that it's really helped from my kind of empathetic point of view. So I can understand how internal triggers and internal deadlines can create a strain, and putting that out to an external resource. So now that I'm sat on the other side of that, I can understand and take note of those requirements and see how it's visualised and how we can sit comfortably within that as an extension of their marketing team.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>04:07<br><br></div><div>Amazing. So, Matt from your perspective, how did you find yourself in the account management role?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>04:15<br><br></div><div>I suppose, I studied at university, marketing and advertising, base degree. So I went straight into I guess, a client side marketing role. Quite diverse, B2B, lots of internal comms, lots of exposure to lots of really cool stuff that straight out of uni you want to get your teeth into. And I moved on to a couple of different roles, retail, e-commerce, sort of background, and between then in the time of going, well, it's now like, I need to specialise in something or what's next for yourself, really. So what appealed to me about I suppose account management was the sort of level of, I don't necessarily want to go down a specialist route. So I found myself in a position where I wanted to just know a little bit about everything. That's my way of doing it. So that was the route that I decided to take. And that's why account management sort of fit the mould for me. I really liked the relationship side of the marketing and advertising, I had been on the receiving end of that, and obviously, previous roles. So, for me in my career, it's sort of a natural best fit. And I love marketing. And this was sort of felt right. And yeah, so I jumped at it.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>05:28<br><br></div><div>Great. I think this is really interesting for people who might be listening, that are thinking about getting into the account management role, because it's always interesting to see how other people actually find themselves in the position. So Matt, let me ask you, what do you think makes a really great account manager?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>05:41<br><br></div><div>Sure, yeah. I think there's a probably a selection of like, traits, I suppose that's come to light more recently, where I think that you need to be almost a hybrid in person of, you're in quite a unique position. But I think really to make a great sort of account manager having the foundations and the ability to understand and sympathise with all this, have that level of, I suppose emotional intelligence that others may not already have, say put you in quite a unique perspective, because you're the link between all your clients and prospective clients and the agency. So I think having traits such as that are really, really important. And I think, actually, when you're delivering in the role, I think, giving clients something that they've not necessarily asked for or asked about, so adding that little bit of benefit and value to why they should work with an agency, whether it's a creative idea, or or something else. And I think, being in the position in the role, I think it's really important trait to be able to sort of lead and nurture from the position you're in as well, that's internally as well as externally, you're not in a position where you need to be telling people what they should be doing. But you can certainly back that up with knowledge and experience, but you certainly need to lead the client to say, this is what's worked and this is what we believe works, what do you think? And sort of nurture the client along that journey with you.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>07:17<br><br></div><div>I'm glad you mentioned the bit about giving the client something they weren't expecting. Because I think that sort of speaks to the fact that we need to be proactive in our roles, don't we, there's that constant, how are we going to surprise the client? How are we going to bring new value? Is there anything that you would add to that, Emma?<br><br></div><div><strong>Emma&nbsp; </strong>07:37<br><br></div><div>I think from that point, in particular, I think that what makes the difference between, a creative person in a marketing agency, is that you want to make that transition from a transactional relationship to a consultative based relationship. We're not here for you to tell us what to do, we're here to advise you on what you can do to better benefit your business and reach those business objectives. And so it's really important as an account manager to be able to take that lead and take that initiative. Because you have a range of clients that have different ideas, you have some that come to you completely want to be handheld and taken through the process. And you have some accounts, some clients that may have more knowledge, and may have their own agenda of what they feel may work for their business. And so it's navigating that and understanding the best method of approach for those. And always taking that empathetic kind of strategic approach with them so that you're working in the best way that you can for them, and always ensuring that what you do for them offers them that value. Because I think what can be missed when you do have a more transactional relationship is that value added, you know, results. And you can take a step back and think, okay, well we've done X amount of activities, but what has that actually achieved? Whereas if we can take much more of a strategic approach, which is the responsibility of the account managers to facilitate and to manage, we can then be more accountable of what happens, we can track things much more clearly. And it also helps us with that nurturing process to get them on board with kind of how things work, and really build that relationship with the wider team as well.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>09:37<br><br></div><div>Great points. And what other value do you think the account manager brings to the client Matt? We've talked about helping them achieve their business outcomes. What other value do you think that the agency account manager brings?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>09:52<br><br></div><div>Yes, it's an interesting one that isn't it? I think a lot of it's asking the right questions as well. I think to really, from somebody using an agency such as ourselves, I think to really get to the nitty gritty and get the value out of it, we need to be able to diagnose and resolve the client problem. And that's the reason why they come to us in the first place because they've got some problem that they need sorting out. So I think being able to help them diagnose and understand what the limitations are, that I think really plays into the value that an account manager can bring, and being able to understand, empathise, offer solutions. I think another interesting point, to add value, from an account manager's point of view is certainly helping clients grow so they can actually directly see the returns that they're getting for their investment with the agency. And that allows the client to grow against their business goals, as well as letting the agency flourish as well. And so almost like grow in tandem, there's a benefit to doing these approaches.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>11:04<br><br></div><div>I'm so glad you said that. Because actually, in order to help, we're only going to grow our business as an agency if we help the client succeed and grow themselves. So really well put. Emma, just explain kind of what are the typical types of projects that you get involved in?<br><br></div><div><strong>Emma&nbsp; </strong>11:21<br><br></div><div>Sure. So we are a full service agency. So as mentioned, we have a plethora of different kinds of projects that come through. But particular projects that we get asked for regularly and I will consider to be our strengths, are websites. So that's both sort of brochure and e-com, brand identity realisation with the design team and digital transformation projects as well. And so with the project side, so with kind of the websites and the brand identity realisation, these tend to be sort of one off larger projects for businesses that we would then work with them to perhaps look at what they want to do with the next steps, which is where the digital transformation from a retainer point of view often comes in. So we as account managers will be on board with project work quite early on, we will take the time to assess the client, understand what their requirements are, take them through that process and understand opportunities to talk to them about future work from a digital point of view as well. So that's one of our, I guess, core sort of strategy drivers as a business is to look at opportunities to have, that added value. And that's really where the digital side of the business comes in and where that growth is.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>12:46<br><br></div><div>Okay, so fantastic. So a client might come to you with a one off website projects, but you like to see the bigger picture and how that fits into the wider kind of digital strategy of the company.<br><br></div><div><strong>Emma&nbsp; </strong>12:57<br><br></div><div>Absolutely. I think, and I will probably talk about this a little bit more later on, but I think one of the core questions that we need to ask at the beginning is, what actually is the reason that you're coming and asking for this project? Give us a bit of an understanding of what your overarching business objectives are. And actually, we might be able to take a step back and say, that might not be the best route for you. Let's have an audit, let's have a wider view at what we think. And we could actually provide something that's much more concrete that could give you the long term solutions that you're looking for. I mean, for example, we had a client that came to us from a video inquiry, so he was interested in having some video testimonials created. And we actually took the time it, took a step back and said, Okay, well, what do you want this for? And his answer was, well, I've seen a competitor have them, so I think we should have them. And I'm like, Okay, well, let's actually have a think about what other things we could do to benefit the brand without just jumping straight into the tactics, because that can be quite easily done, certainly in project. And, and so we then did a full audit, and came to realise that actually, he would benefit from a digital transformation project. So that was the creation of a new website, new brand identity and we've now moved on to a retainer style where we're now doing SEO work and content work with them. And that's the kind of structure and the kind of approach that we like to take. It's not necessarily to say that you need to move on to a retainer. And it's not to say that you need that longevity. But it's to say that we want to take a step back and look at the full picture and not do the work because you're willing to pay for it. We want to make sure that you're getting the best benefit out of what we can offer. And we're doing the best that we can wholeheartedly to fit your business objectives.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>14:55<br><br></div><div>Great and I suppose working with someone on a retainer basis means that you can kind of see how what you're doing is impact impacting their business making the adjustments as you go, presumably?<br><br></div><div><strong>Emma&nbsp; </strong>15:07<br><br></div><div>Absolutely, absolutely. It's almost like live time reactions. It's fantastic. There's obviously&nbsp; certain KPIs that are quite tricky to monitor on a month to month basis. But certainly with our e-com clients, being able to see that from a quantitative, growth and development is really great. And it gives us initiatives to continue with the retainers and to continue to develop work, because we've taken that time at the beginning to fully understand the requirements, it's meant that we have a full understanding of what the next step should be. And we have almost an equal investment as our clients do in those results as well. And I think that in particular is a really, a strength of an account manager - is that you want to be seen as an extension of their team, you want to be seen as somebody that is equally as invested in achieving results for them as they are. And it's not about agency impact, it's about impact for your client, and always putting them first. I think that's where having an account manager involved at such a level, so early on, creates that advantage and creates that long term relationship with that project work.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>16:25<br><br></div><div>Great. Matt, just talk us through from a logistics point of view, so you have these fantastic upfront meetings with the client, to really get under the skin of their business to work out why they want to do something, so that you can see the bigger picture from a business perspective before you then start providing solutions. So logistically, is it the account manager that leads that meeting? If so, who else is in the meeting? And typically, what level of client do you like to have in those meetings? And maybe the length as well?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>16:56<br><br></div><div>Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I think the most important thing for us when we're onboarding or beginning to work with anybody, even on a longer term, partnership basis, or even a project basis, as we just talked about, is really opening up their business to deliver a successful project. So typically, when we run what we call a discovery workshop, which essentially allows us to ask all the right questions, it fits into our methodology and way of approaching things working, and then as I say, really lets us then open the client up to our way of thinking. So typically, in these meetings, we can have everything from managing directors, to marketing managers, to the wider marketing team, we tend to invite those in for that session. Anybody that's going to touch this or be involved in this is really important to having there, even if it's the sales guys as well for instance, anybody that's using this as a tool to better their own lives in the workplace, really. And so we'll run, say these discovery workshops, typically couple of hours, and you really just get into the nitty gritty of the business. And you know, who buys from you? What are the personas? What's the sales journey? What's the outreach? How are you going to get these people onto this website or watching this video or whatever it might be? So yeah, what are the routes to market? We'll talk about competitors as well, it's really important to diagnose and look at the wider marketplace, including the competitors, we'll often look at some of the sort of top level things as well. So we'll go on a bit of a workshop where we'll look at, like do a SWOT analysis for example, or really sort of dive deeply into, what's the strengths or weaknesses of the organisation? What is your opportunities to improve? Things like that, so it's a real nitty gritty sort of workshop really and you get down deep to the where the issues are, and what the organisation is good at.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>18:50<br><br></div><div>And do you find that the clients are very generally sort of open to having those deep dive discussions with you up front?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>19:00<br><br></div><div>You know what, very much so,&nbsp; often you'll find yourself in a situation where you think, I haven't got time for that guys, come on. But as you know, if we stop and take five minutes and actually do this exercise, you'd probably be quite surprised by the outcome of it. And often, it's always the case where you'll do that session and go, I know it's a couple of hours, but honestly, you always sit down after then go, right, did you actually find that useful? Yeah, we've never really thought of it like that especially some of the tools and videos and all the things like that we use in these sessions. It really sort of, takes them back to what this is all about, rather than just making making money. So yeah, definitely some surprises at the end of those sessions.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>19:42<br><br></div><div>Brilliant. And what are those tools and videos? Emma?<br><br></div><div><strong>Emma&nbsp; </strong>19:46<br><br></div><div>So we've got a range of different cues that we use to help assist the conversation. So for example, we use for example, I don't know if you've ever seen it before, but the Dollar Shave Club advertisement.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>20:00<br><br></div><div>Yeah, yeah.<br><br></div><div><strong>Emma&nbsp; </strong>20:01<br><br></div><div>We use that as an example of a business that's really taken the time to understand their audience, understand the messaging. So they're talking to a particular audience. The channels in which they tend to, where their route to market is, so they did it fully online, because they were aiming, you know, for 17 to 30 year old men that didn't want to spend the time or the money, sourcing their grooming equipment, they just, you know, one pack, one pound razor sorted. And so to really kind of emphasise that they really nailed the kind of the why, how, what, and who they were looking to target, most importantly, in such a natural way. And actually, when you diagnose that, and actually break it down, it's really interesting to talk about. And another thing that we tend to use as a tool, and it's really thought provoking actually, and we often find that clients go away to want to think about it a little bit further, is that Why, How, What? So you know, why do you do what you do as part of your business? How do you do it? And what is it? I think, certainly the Why is the his most thought provoking thing, it's quite difficult to put that together. And so what we do to try and support that further is we use a TED talk called the Golden Circle. And where I can't remember his name now, but he basically goes through the relevancy of... Simon Sinek. Yes. So he runs through the theory of Why, How, What, so understanding the micro environments, the macro environments that impact that and actually, taking that time to step back with a client and putting them in that firing line position almost to ask answer that question, is really what starts to open up the conversation and really helps us to understand the business much more clearly. Because I think certainly, when we have an initial project brief, it's very tactic focused, it's very simple, straightforward. But actually, by putting these guys in this position to open up a little bit further, by using these cues, asking them questions about their audiences, asking them about their routes to market, and asking them about their overarching business objectives and where they see themselves, even from a personal job point of view, where they see their position progressing and what benefits they want to achieve out of working with us, you really start to get that opened up and for us to ask those questions, really demonstrates to them that we are vested, invested in what they are looking to achieve, and we want to take the time to understand them, and puts that trust in us, which is the most important thing.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>23:03<br><br></div><div>Yeah, and I can really imagine that you're going to be positioned more as a trusted adviser from the outset, particularly when you're talking quite, this emotive language, I suppose a lot of the time. And I can imagine, they probably say, Oh, no one's ever asked me that, or we've never even thought about it as a team, things like that. Just out of interest, what are some of the most surprising revelations during that process?<br><br></div><div><strong>Emma&nbsp; </strong>23:27<br><br></div><div>I think I can give a really good example, actually. I had a discovery just a couple of weeks ago, and this client in particular, had come with a very, I guess, sort of blunt brief of, this is what we want to do, do it. And I was a bit hmmm, I mean we can, we can, but you're not really giving us a lot of information to go off here. So I broached the conversation regarding a Discovery and they were a bit like, Oh, well, we haven't really got time to sit down for two hours and do this. And I said, well, the benefit that you'll get off of the back of this is my team will be able to run with this project much more smoothly if we just take the time to sit down and the main guy was like, Okay, I've got 20 minutes. We ended up on that call for two and a half hours. And he had the time and&nbsp; as soon as you broke that barrier it made all the difference. And I think what's so important and is so important in account management and in agencies, is to keep that conversation client focused. A client loves nothing more than to be able to talk about themselves and talk about their business because they're proud of it, as they should be. And so by allowing them the time to speak, and demonstrating that we can listen and absorb and understand, it really made all the difference. And it was quite interesting because as they were talking about the businesses as a concept,&nbsp; as this is a start-up, so they actually started talking to each other and thinking, well actually, maybe we should do this a little bit differently, maybe we should take a different approach. And even they were sort of organising themselves, in this conversation. So it was almost like we were helping them sort their side of the of the deal out as well as organising ours. So it made everything much more fluid and controlled. And it was all done in an afternoon.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>25:30<br><br></div><div>Wow, that's a brilliant story. Thank you for sharing. I love the fact that you were adding value in a different way. You were facilitating an internal discussion that they probably should have had at some point. But you know, you were helping them in that way as well. That's fantastic. Matt, generally, with this timing thing, are you finding that clients don't have any time for you? Are you getting pushback generally on, I've only got 20 minutes or because actually, the world's changed in the last year and I suppose the reason I'm asking you is because there's been a shift, hasn't there, people are working from home and I don't know about you, and I'd love to get both of your perspectives on this, but initially, when we started the pandemic and everyone went into lockdown, clients were a little bit more available, because they were working at home finding their feet. Where time has gone on, people seem to be working harder at home, and working really efficiently and having less time. But what's your view? Have you found this?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>26:23<br><br></div><div>Yeah, I think, in all honesty, Jenny, I think it's just become part of the new normal, hasn't it at the moment. Unfortunately it's just one of those things, I think that we, I suppose the approach that we take, we're exactly the same, you know, there's all these other organisations and everybody that is working from home, or that's sort of half back in the office or whatever, is saying, you can't cut corners with your marketing it's important to, if you're going to spend the time to invest in it, and not be a casualty of COVID, of which this unfortunately has been a lot of that, over the past year, year and a half of the casualties of COVID that have unfortunately knocked up, maybe more serious approach to marketing, I think that's fair to say. It's not something that you should be cutting back or, considering losing, you need to be top of minds, you need to be out there and not fall by the wayside, so to speak. But yeah, certainly, the way we approached it is very much from that, let's push on, let's get more from what you're doing, let's get more results. And let's capitalise on what we can that's out there, let's change tact, and people are being, still very susceptible to giving us their time and availability, because I think the way that we approach things here, and the way that we are very results and ROI driven, is the fact that they're right, I need to spend some time thinking about that, because actually, it's important and affects the bottom line nd ultimately, what the business is going to achieve this year and next. So yeah, it's been a bit of a weird one for everybody hasn't it, how it's been, even conducting all these things over Teams, or Zoom or whichever you use.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>28:15<br><br></div><div>And navigating between all of the different platforms yourself, that's been a big learning curve hasn't it?<br><br></div><div><strong>Emma&nbsp; </strong>28:19<br><br></div><div>Absolutely, it's a really interesting note, actually. I've been working with a client recently, and we've been looking at the concept of hybrid working and the impacts that it has on efficiency of business and how we communicate to each other. And there's obviously been such a forced boost in hybrid working in recent times and it's looking to be, I think it was a statistic that I saw the other day, it's around 77% of people embrace the idea of hybrid working now. So at least sort of one to two days, sort of working from home a week just to try and achieve that balance. Because I do think with the pandemic and working from home, it's quite sad really, that accessibility to the laptop, and that means that people are working longer hours, because you're not taking that natural break of travelling to work, travelling home from work, having to have that switch off. And I've certainly seen that with clients where I've had emails at like seven or eight o'clock in the evening where they're still, plugging away. And Matt and I've been praying to that as well so I can't be judgmental.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>29:36<br><br></div><div>I think we all have!<br><br></div><div><strong>Emma&nbsp; </strong>29:39<br><br></div><div>But I definitely think that there's been a shift in, certainly the productivity of our clients. So they're finding that, whereas before they were perhaps going through things more with us, they are now relying on us to sort of, get on with it if you like. Still more than happy to give us their time, but they are, I'm finding that things are being sat on less, if that makes sense. So we're having to trust the process and trust that things will get completed, and that things will move forward. And that's, as Matt said, that's where the benefit of our kind of strategic trusted adviser approach comes into play and is an advantage. Because we can manage that for them, and kind of take that responsibility away almost and retain that communication regularly to give them the transparency that things are moving forward.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>30:36<br><br></div><div>Love it. So I think you guys really do a great job in setting up from the outset, this kind of strategic advisor position, where you're really, helping your clients with their strategy and reaching their outcomes. What other things for you, Matt, make a successful client agency relationship?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>30:55<br><br></div><div>Sure, yeah. I mean, there's probably quite a few things that come to mind. I mean, I think that definitely the long term future focus and partnership approach is so, so important. I think we're really good at being upfront about that in the way that we onboard clients here, and even the new business team approaches and questions clients. We're all about, and even the work that myself and Emma do here, it's all about future focus. And that's where we really think the client, agency relationship is best served. I think having, all the stuff that we've already mentioned today on this, has all been about assessing things as they are, let's do things better,&nbsp; let's take a step back. And having that longer term view and partnership is all like, what's next, what's the ultimate goal here? And so I think that's super important to the long term longevity of working with a client agency. And I think, again, it's about setting those expectations up front, the accountability on both parts, and that's how these things work well. We can both work with a marketing manager, a managing director, and we know, straight off the bat, who's accountable for what and what we're here to do. And it always takes a&nbsp; bit of give and take on both parts, it always takes two to tango in that regard. But I think the way, in probably in our opinion anway with that client agency's relationship works really well, is to give things a future focus and approach things as a partner.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>32:35<br><br></div><div>Spot on amazing. Emma, from your perspective, if an account manager's listening to this, and thinking about getting into a full service agency, what do you think is really important for the account manager to know about the role, because it'll be great to get a flavour of the kinds of things that you get involved in on a day to day basis because I'm sure every day is not the same?<br><br></div><div><strong>Emma&nbsp; </strong>32:59<br><br></div><div>No, absolutely. And, Matt, and I were just talking before this, about how working in a full service agency works, potentially compared to others that are more single service, be prepared for it to be very fast moving, it's a very dynamic job, because there are so many moving parts. We have retainers that are multi service within themselves. So I can give an example of some clients that have five or six different practices as part of one single retainer. And so what I would recommend, as something to consider is if you do go into a full service, is take the time to talk to the individual departments, understand how each of them operate, and take any advice away, any support that they can offer, that will assist when you're talking to your clients. Get as many tools as you can as an opportunity to talk to your clients about them as well. But what I think's important to remember, and I think this is maybe something that we've said before is, don't set a high expectation that you need to understand absolutely everything that each of these departments do. A basic level of understanding is really important, so that you can talk to a client about it, but you have specialists within the business and within those teams for a reason, so rely on these guys as support, lean on them, get them involved. And,&nbsp; plus that way as well, you've got the transparency with the client that these are the people, this is your core team, this is a project team that's going to be working with you. And let those guys, do the talking for you. I think from a project management point of view, it's just something to bear in mind, I would recommend that you have a structure in place as to how you would deal with the different departments, so ensure that you have good communication channels where you can talk to the relevant people that you need to, a good countdown system so that you can look at, progress on particular projects and yeah, just regular communication. And it's really fun, because there's so many different departments and so many different outputs that we can offer, it really means that you get to see the full shebang, if you like in one go. You know, for example, I think myself and Matt always do a little jump when we realise that we've got a video project or some video work as part of a retainer, because it is something so refreshing in something so different. And you know the benefit is, you have all of these different departments in your artillery. And they all know the client, because they were involved in those early stages, which means we have all of those touch points and all of those opportunities to further develop those departments and those relationships with the client as well.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>36:14<br><br></div><div>Brilliant, this is really good tips. Can you share some of your tools that you use or the names of the systems that you tend to prefer?<br><br></div><div><strong>Emma&nbsp; </strong>36:23<br><br></div><div>Yeah, sure. So for our kind of countdown project management system, we use a platform called Trello. And so that's kind of got, it's cards within lists approach. So you can create individual boards for your clients, or you can have your own personal board, where you put individual tasks on cards. And the great thing about that is that you can invite people to be on those boards, you can tag people responsible within those individual cards as well. You can put deadlines, checklists, and you can also invite clients to those as well. Which means they have full transparency of the project process as it's going through, which is really beneficial, and certainly helps those conversations at the end of the month. From a scheduling point of view, so from an internal kind of project management, we use a system called Accelo which is essentially a scheduling and time sheeting system where we can also monitor the progress, the profitability of accounts as well. It proves really useful when we have conversations with clients to say, this is what we've done for you this month. And it helps us take more of a service based approach as opposed to a task by task approach because we can look at it as a kind of an overall retainer, as opposed to looking at it piecemeal, which is really good. And then in terms of day to day communication, we have Teams channels, so Microsoft Teams. So we have Teams channels that are specific to clients. So we'll have individual channel streams within those for say, retainer work, website work, general and then we also have Teams channels that are specific to the departments. And then of course, we can talk to people individually, sort of as and when we need to. And we also, just in the interest of keeping momentum and keeping an eye on everything, we also have a daily catch up. So we'll have a half an hour call with the project managers, with the heads of department and with the account managers, just to check in on everything, make them aware of any red flags, anything that needs to be sorted today or this week as a matter of urgency, just so that everybody's up to speed with everything.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>38:48<br><br></div><div>Amazing. Gosh, thank you for sharing all of that. That's really, really useful. Matt, from your perspective, you know, what other elements? Because it sounds maybe from someone who's thinking about getting into account management, sounds like a lot. You know, you're juggling a lot, you're doing a lot you have to know a lot. And what other kind of things would you say, what other pieces of advice would you have for someone who's considering either joining a full service agency or getting into the account management role in a creative agency?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>39:17<br><br></div><div>I think, firstly, do it. If you're thinking about it, you're probably already half suited to the role itself. I think, as I mentioned before, it's really sort of unique role in a way. But I think if you are considering it, certainly just take that leap, do a little bit of research online, what does it actually involve? Watch a little bit of Madmen if you can't see it, I think we've all dabbled in that. But I think, as you've already said, it's, if you want something that's certainly different every day and you'll get a real eclectic mix of things to deal with week on week, month on month and a way to develop yourself and learn lots more about marketing and advertising and the account management role is really suitable for that. Not only do you get to work with a huge array of different clients, you don't necessarily have to box yourself industry to working with one that you would say if you were client side. And as we said before, it's not a case of you need to know, everything up front, it's a very experienced base role as an account manager, and I feel it's a very much, you're always learning on the job. So if that's the environment you probably prefer or are attracted to, the account management function, and Client Services as a whole is really well suited to that. If you're the kind of person that likes to plan, shedule, think ahead, you'd be really suited to the position itself if, agencies that have all these different ways of working, for example, I mean, ourselves, we're sort of transitioning out of the hybrid account manager, where we were lucky enough to the project management as well as the client services, but it's very much those those sorts of roles where in you'll be considered to do a little bit of both of those elements, which is, again, it's really important to understand the processes of how things work, people other moving parts, 'Time, People and Places' to quote somebody else atour agency. And so, again, I think it's personally, I think it's a super exciting, attractive career to get into.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>41:44<br><br></div><div>And by separating the project management function to the account management function, for you Matt, what do you think that's going to enable you to do differently?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>41:52<br><br></div><div>Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think personally as well, separating out the client services function to the project management function will allow our team of account managers to then further add more value to all the longer term retainer clients that we're working with. In addition to that, all the projects, all the video work we do, it allows that extra time to invest our time into getting more for those clients that we're working with, which is so, so important, not just for the client, but also for other people to work with, there's a reason we're working together, and have been able to invest that time further, and be that sort of angel on the shoulder for the clients and making, people look good at different organisations and things like that. That's why we're here and that's what makes it work.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>42:47<br><br></div><div>Great point. Emma, anything that you would add to that, any kind of final words of advice?<br><br></div><div><strong>Emma&nbsp; </strong>42:53<br><br></div><div>Yeah, I think all I would add, I guess, to what Matt has said there, is, if this is an environment that you are considering, I think it's a great opportunity if you want to move away from just working in one particular sector, if you're wanting to look at all of these different facets of marketing and the applications in which, they can fall into, I think it's absolutely, brilliant. I also think it gives you an opportunity, if you are sort of at the beginning of your career, and you're maybe thinking, exactly like what Matt was saying before, you're not sure whether you want to specialise in anything, account management is a fantastic way to dabble in all of those areas, be a touch point in each of those areas, and offer your insight and your opinion. And I think that's something that, certainly I really appreciate, because I can appreciate all of the different areas of the business that we do, but you won't catch me designing any logos anytime soon! I can put in my input without having to actually do it. But yeah, I think in terms of honest advice, it is a very fast moving environment. And I think that something that you would need to consider is whether you are suited to an environment that is so fast paced, and is, so I guess not pressurised, but because you have the expectation of both the client and the agency to consider, think it's more a case of feeling comfortable with managing that on either side, I think it's really important. And, finding a methodology in your own psyche of how to manage that. And I think again, this was something that myself and Matt were saying before we came on the call, it's so important to find your own way of almost effectively project managing yourself because there are so many moving parts, much like with the business itself, it's so important to do that for your own work as well. And I think in account management that makes such a positive difference, if you allow yourself to have a structure because that means that you can compartmentalise and you can manage the different departments in a way that you feel comfortable with. Because otherwise, I think it can be quite tricky to not have your head in the sand or be&nbsp; focused in one area at any one given time if you have problems. And so having that structure allows you to take yourself above the situation, have more of a level headed approach to it. And you know, take things in in bite sized pieces because it gets very busy.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>45:57<br><br></div><div>Great advice. Great advice. And Matt, just finally, and thank you both so much for sharing so much of your life and what you're doing in your roles, it's been really, really valuable. Matt, if someone is interested in finding out more about Purpose Media, what's the best way to to reach you?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>46:15<br><br></div><div>Yeah, if you want to find out a little bit more about Purpose Media, just head on to our website, find out and submit your inquiry through there, whether it's digital, creative or video.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>46:25<br><br></div><div>Fantastic. Well, thank you both so much for coming on. I really, really appreciate it.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>46:29<br><br></div><div>Thank you. Thanks for having us, Jenny.<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2021 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/l8490v6w.mp3" length="49803410" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/f8d8b330-b945-11eb-a197-a729430ad329/f8d8b4c0-b945-11eb-ba35-8fb1441660a0.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2489</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 32. In this episode, I chat to Matt and Emma in the account management team at Purpose Media. They've shared with us their tips and insights into their role. And they've shared:

- how they approach client management
- how they run their discovery workshops 
- the key questions they asked their clients at the beginning of the relationship
- and how they always aim to position themselves as trusted advisors to their clients from the start. 

There's lots more. I think this chat will be particularly interesting for you if you are looking to get into the role of account manager or senior account manager in a full service independent agency. Or maybe you're already in that role, and you're curious to see how other account managers operate. 

Now, if you are an ambitious agency account manager and you really want to accelerate your career by improving your agency account management skills, then check out my Account Accelerator programme. The next cohort starts in September 21. You'll meet your peers and go through a 12 week programme, which is a clear roadmap and plan to add value to your existing accounts and increase revenue in 90 days. So if you want more information about that programme, then go over to www.accountmanagementskills.com/training.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 32. In this episode, I chat to Matt and Emma in the account management team at Purpose Media. They've shared with us their tips and insights into their role. And they've shared:

- how they approach client management
- how they run their discovery workshops 
- the key questions they asked their clients at the beginning of the relationship
- and how they always aim to position themselves as trusted advisors to their clients from the start. 

There's lots more. I think this chat will be particularly interesting for you if you are looking to get into the role of account manager or senior account manager in a full service independent agency. Or maybe you're already in that role, and you're curious to see how other account managers operate. 

Now, if you are an ambitious agency account manager and you really want to accelerate your career by improving your agency account management skills, then check out my Account Accelerator programme. The next cohort starts in September 21. You'll meet your peers and go through a 12 week programme, which is a clear roadmap and plan to add value to your existing accounts and increase revenue in 90 days. So if you want more information about that programme, then go over to www.accountmanagementskills.com/training.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How can a podcast help an agency's new business strategy? with Nathan Anibaba</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/p8lyrw9n</link>
      <itunes:title>How can a podcast help an agency's new business strategy? with Nathan Anibaba</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>31</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">x1lrw3v1</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 31. This episode's for you if you're interested in the idea of podcasting becoming part of your new business strategy.

Perhaps you've been considering having podcast for a while. Or maybe you've got one already, and you're looking for some tips to make it even better. Or maybe you're just simply open to the idea of having a podcast or maybe you're dead against it.

Hopefully, Nathan Anibaba is going to shed some light on this. He is an expert in this area, having hosted his own podcast, and he's now at 140 episodes, Agency Dealmasters. He shared with us lots of tips, lots of insight into the world of podcasting. He explains why it's so beneficial to businesses for generating new leads, where people go wrong with podcasting and the key steps to consider.

I really hope you find this valuable. 

If you haven't done so already, please come over to my website and check out all of the information I've got there for agency account managers. You can take a quiz, which is all about agency growth. You can also sign up for my weekly news newsletter where I share advice and tips for agency account managers and all of the episodes of the podcast. I look forward to speaking to you on the next one.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:</strong></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny 00:03<br>So today I'm delighted to welcome <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathananibaba/">Nathan Anibaba</a> to the show. He is founder, managing director and host of the very popular <a href="https://www.agencydealmasters.com/">Agency Dealmasters</a>, which is probably one of the most popular B2B podcasts for both agencies and brands. And I was super impressed when I found the podcast, because he's had guests, including people like Blair Enns the author of 'Win Without Pitching' and 'Pricing Creativity', and also the New York Times best selling author Greg McKeown, and his book was 'Essentialism', and many, many more guests. So super impressive Nathan. I know you're usually more kind of comfortable this side of the mic, but today, it's my turn. So Nathan, welcome to the show.<br><br></div><div>Nathan 00:49<br>Thank you very much, Jenny. Very scary, being on this side of the mic. I'm going to do my best to answer your questions. I'm usually the one asking the questions. So let's see how this goes.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 01:01<br>Okay, so listen, let's start off by, could you spend a couple of minutes just talking about you, your background and actually what you do now? Who are you helping and how?<br><br></div><div>Nathan 01:12<br>Great questions. So we help agency owners create and run podcasts to generate new leads, win new business and build their brands. B2B, podcasting is massively underutilised as a way of starting new conversations with prospects that you want to speak to, as a way of building relationships with existing customers.<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>People think that podcasting is saturated because there are 2 million podcasts out there. But I'm here to say that there is still a lot of opportunity in podcasting, especially in the niches, which is where the opportunities lie. And if you're selling a high ticket, high value item, creating a podcast, creating a show, and using that as your entry point into a brand is massively underutilised&nbsp;<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>and that's what we help brands and agencies to do. As far as my background is concerned, sales is my background really so coming out of university selling water coolers at Nestle water powwow over the phone to people who didn't really want to speak to me to be honest. And then I've sold recruitment, I say sold, I've never really done a very good job doing these things, I was very good at getting the job, sales jobs, I was never good at really keeping them! And I've sold all sorts of things from graduate recruitment, advertising to graduate recruitment, to you know, magazine advertising in financial sort of magazines. But I only really started getting good at sales, I would say, when I moved into the agency world, in around 2012, where I worked, I was I became sort of a sales executive for inbound marketing agency called Tomorrow People. And I worked there on the phones, following up with inbound leads, and converting people who have downloaded content and got very used to talking to people about the value, the reason why they had engaged in a piece of content. And I was very fortunate to sort of learn under an amazing Sales Director, Alison Norman, who was the managing director there at the time, who had come from a sales background, a software SaaS background, and I just learned how to sell high value consultatively through his tutelage over the next five years, the agency grew pretty quickly from about four or five people when I joined upwards to about 50 people. So I sort of went through that journey and sort of saw what that growth of an agency was like. And then I started having conversation with other agencies, who I didn't know, struggled when it came to sales, I thought, all agencies were like us, who were able to convert two out of three deals online, nine out of 10, our conversion rate was really, really good because we had this amazing sales process that he'd taken from SaaS, the SaaS B2B world and brought that into the agency land. I just thought that was table stakes for agencies until I started meeting other agency owners who were like, Hmm, we don't convert that high at all or We don't get that sort of success in new business pitches. In fact, we don't do any sort of direct outbound. We were very active and we would react to inbound calls and RFPs and all the rest of it, which is good when it comes but it's not very good if you don't have any inbound calls coming. So you have to have a combination of kind of being proactive and being reactive at the same time. And that's when I sort of started reaching out to agencies offering consultancy sales services, did that for a couple of years, and then decided, Hmm, maybe I could get introduced to larger agencies if I started a podcast. If I start a podcast, I can invite them on the show. We can talk about sales and that might lead to work, as a very loose plan a very, very loose plan. Very hard to find the first guests everyone said no. Until by accident Kingpin Communications a really big B2B tech agency in London said yes, completely accidentally, he thought he was saying yes to something else. That's another story completely, recorded the interview and then we had then something to go out to other people with and had a very clear idea about what kind of podcast it would be about - it would be about sales and sales only and new business. But then agency owners came on the show and they wanted to talk about culture, and hiring and profitability and all the things I had no clue about Jenny, I had no clue about any of these things, but very quickly had to learn. And, 140 episodes later we've interviewed as you said, not only marketing authors, agency owners, but b2b brand marketeers and kind of everyone else in between. Anyone that sort of is responsible or touches the how agencies grow, mature, how they professionalise, how they win new business, how they build culture, that is able to attract talent, how they, how they run successful, profitable agencies in a nutshell, and we learn from the best and the brightest, all over the world. And I've been just been fortunate to have free consultancy over the last two and a half years to give me the opportunity and build great relationships off the back of it and it's created, it's generated a business off the back of it, which I had no idea would materialise. And that process is the same process that I'm in now, using it with my clients. I'm saying right guys use this podcast as a vehicle to open new opportunities with huge brands that you would never really get the opportunity to be able to speak to and interact with. We've got an opportunity on the table right now with a huge bank. And that's come directly off the back of having a guest on the show. And yeah, so podcasting is massively underutilised. And I'm banging the podcast drum, Jenny!<br><br></div><div>Jenny 07:40<br>I'm glad you are. This is fascinating, though, then is the first time I've heard this. So throughout that 140 episode journey, your whole kind of, it was an education in itself. So you were learning from the best. And this in your mind was changing the way you thought about what business you were going to ultimately offer. So you started out offering sort of sales consultancy. And then now, so it's morphed through your journey. And now are you dedicated to helping agencies and brands with podcasting is that is that your niche now or you're still...?<br><br></div><div>Nathan 08:16<br>That's the niche. The niche is helping agencies and brands win business, using podcasting as the vehicle as the entry point. I'm fortunate because my background is B2B sales. And my background is content marketing and thought leadership. So I'm using the skills that I've developed, working in agencies that have done that, to be able to create podcasts that are able to appeal to senior decision makers. So it's a podcast that is,<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>the secret to podcasting is, it needs to be educational, so people need to come away from it learning something, it needs to be entertaining and it needs to be fun. If you can do those three things, that's the magic trisector. But the most important one, especially for senior decision makers is that they have to know that when they spend their time listening to your show, they're going to come out of it better off, they're going to learn something, they're going to improve, they're going to be better, they're going to be able to implement something in their business as a result of it.&nbsp;<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>So number one is the product has to be credible, and it needs to be worthy of their time. And that comes from getting amazing guests, (God knows why you got me on the show Jenny), but that comes from getting really good guests, the best guests that you can find, asking good questions and then getting out of the way and then letting the guests do the work. And we've been fortunate to build a brand accidentally using that process, but because I've got a background in B2B sales and content marketing and thought leadership, we kind of understand how to create the sort of content that will be appealing to senior decision makers.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 10:10<br>So this is brilliant. So can you share some examples of creative agencies who have done this successfully? Because I'm sure there are agency owners listening or even agency account managers, anyone working in an agency space thinking, maybe this is a strategy for us? Maybe this is something that we could invest time in, if they haven't already. So who have you seen doing this really, really well?<br><br></div><div>Nathan 10:36<br>So there's an agency called Red-Fern Media, who specialise in manufacturing. So they made the shift to focusing on manufacturing, the manufacturing niche, probably relatively recently, about 18 months ago. Before then they were sort of one of a generalist agency, they had a couple of manufacturing clients, but they've worked with an external consultant, Robert Leaf, I think his name is, who said, 'Look, you need to specialise' and we know this, right. If you listen to anything Blair Enns says, or any of the agency consultants out there, specialising is the thing to do. And so they've gone super deep into manufacturing into the manufacturing niche. And they've said, right, we want to have a podcast that's all about manufacturing, it's all about the people who have come up with an idea to create something new in the worlds who are able to create the processes, the Lean, the Six Sigma who are the people behind some of the best manufacturing processes and businesses in the country. And they've been able to, they've only recently sort of started on their journey, but already, they've had maybe seven or eight episodes out there already, but already, they've started a handful of conversations with really big manufacturers. It would have been so difficult to get on their radar in any other way. How else are you going to do it? Are you going to use email, LinkedIn, you're getting a million different messages on that platform? Events are off the table now, because we're all in this pandemic, how else are you going to get an audience with the CEO or the managing director of a large manufacturing organisation? If not, for inviting them onto a show, developing a relationship with them, asking them good questions, building rapport, demonstrating expertise. And I'm not saying that that should be, you don't want to do it in a way that is sort of crass or overly salesy because no one wants to be sold to in that way. You want to build a relationship, you want to start a relationship. And Red-Fern Media have done that, even though it's really early days, have done that really, really well.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 13:11<br>Okay, so this is fantastic. So is it important to really be a specialist agency for the podcast to be successful? Or would it equally work well if you are narrow in a certain kind of specialism? Say that I'm, an app development agency? You know, we go deep in apps, would it have worked equally as well? Do you think? So that's the first question.<br><br></div><div>Nathan 13:37<br>Yeah. I think that when it comes to podcasting, the nicher you are the better. So I don't think it matters whether or not you're an agency that specialises in a niche. I think you can be a generalist agency, but your podcast needs to be niche in order for your podcast to stand out. Because how are you going to attract new listeners and an audience to the show, are going to create a marketing podcast? There are million different marketing podcasts, generalist marketing podcasts, but you want to create a marketing podcast that is about app development, and the trends that are happening in Asia in 2021. You know what I mean? You need something that really is going to stand out. And for those people that app development in Asia this year is crucial, you are going to stand out. Why would they listen to anything else, but that?<br><br></div><div>Jenny 14:35<br>There's a real strong strategic part, first of all, to get your angle right on the podcast, on the theme. And also, do you think that, you said that, inviting the type of customer that you want to work with ultimately, is a brilliant way to develop that relationship, to understand their specialist area of expertise and I suppose what happens after that typically? Like you invite the guest and generally the door is open because the CEO is flattered that he's been asked? How does that work?<br><br></div><div>Nathan 15:13<br>So, you mean, how does it then convert into an opportunity or business? So this is where you want to be a little bit careful, because nobody wants to be invited on to a show, or given an opportunity only to realise that actually, it's a secret way of selling to me or trying to get some new business. But ultimately, that's what we're all trying to do. It's the way that you go about then doing that. So the clients that I've been working with so far, we haven't proactively gone back to any of the guests on the show to say, Hey, how about a new website? We haven't done that. Those conversations have happened organically, they've come back to us and actually, so you guys, so you do, so, in Fox's case, for instance, 'Oh, so you helped put on virtual events in COVID? So we're putting on a virtual event at the moment. But we've had a couple of problems. Is that the kind of thing that you guys can do?' I think it comes back to, again, one of the reasons why the podcast is so good is because in sales, it's all about demonstrating your credibility and demonstrating your expertise by the questions that you ask, how consultative you are, how thoughtful you are about the client's business and their challenges and off the back of that the client responds. The client says, actually, this is someone that understands my business, understands where I am, knows my context, actually knows a little bit more about it than me, actually about one or two things. Maybe I should ask him a couple of questions about how to do this right. So there's a part of the podcasting process, which is about understanding, sales and how to sell because I guess that's one of the reasons why I've been able to take to podcasting quite easily. I say easily, it's been really hard journey. But one of the reasons why podcasting has kind of played to my skill set is because I'm good at asking questions. As a salesperson, that's what you do, that is your that's your main skill set. So how you ask consultative, thoughtful questions that probe, that elicit a response that gets the client thinking, 'Hmm, I actually don't know the answer to that question. Maybe this person does'. Do you know what I mean?<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>Asking questions is so fundamental in sales, you know this. But when you ask a question, and someone doesn't know the answer to the question, they assume that you do, even if you don't know the answer to the question, but they assume that you do, number one. Number two, it demonstrates, no one likes to be told anything, regardless of how knowledgeable someone is, but by asking a question, demonstrates your expertise. It tells someone that you know what you're talking about, without telling them that you know what you're talking about. So question asking does so many things and the art of a great podcast is asking great questions.<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>Jenny 18:33<br>This is making so much sense now, because when I listen to your episodes, I can see you are demonstrating your knowledge of sales. You throw in examples, that kind of build on the story that your guest is telling. So it makes total sense. And I was wondering why you were so proficient in the B2B selling space? And, obviously now I know Anthony Iannarino's been on a couple of times, as well and he's like a sales guru, so yeah, this is making total sense now. And so this is brilliant. So if an agency is listening to this thinking, wow, okay, this is something definitely that we could explore, because we have quite a niche, we understand who our customer is. If they came to you and said, Nathan, we're in your hands, help us go through this process, because we can see that the investment would be something, investing, our time in this area will be well spent. Where do you start? How do you start working with a company from the start of the thought about having a podcast?<br><br></div><div>Nathan 19:41<br>Well, the first thing is about being, as you said, really clear on who your customer is, and what purpose the podcast would serve in their lives. Why would they listen to this? What value are they going to get from this show? Based on that, once you've understood, okay, I want to work with large manufacturers in the northeast, let's say. And the reason why they will listen to the show is because we'll have other large manufacturers in the northeast talking about, you know, because we know that these people like to learn from from each other, they'd like to learn from their peers. They're quite well networked anyway but because of COVID, they're not been able to maybe get to as many events as they would like to, let's find out who are the really interesting people that have great stories to tell, that have built successful enterprises themselves, that other large manufacturers in the northeast would like to hear from. So it's being really clear on, like any other sort of marketing strategy right, it's who is the target audience, what is the value proposition, what is the reason why they would listen to your show? How do we actually get this podcast in front of them? And then how do we make it predictable? You know, the, the other reason I think that people shy away from podcasts is because they know that it's a commitment, and it is a commitment, it's not something you can just turn on and go, 'Okay, I'm done with that now', and turn it off. Once you start it, you need to stick with it. And the vast majority of those 2 million podcasts that I talked about earlier, they only had about 10 episodes. So people get to about 10 episodes and realise, actually, this is harder than I thought it was. Let me stop this. So the vast majority of podcasts that are out there, and they're gaining audiences and they're able to grow is because they've got some regularity. And you know, the regularity thing is a is a huge thing, whether it's once a week or twice a month, or once a month, which I disagree that you should do that I think it's a bit too far away, but the regularity is important, because it shows people that you show up, you turn up and there's a huge amount of trust and credibility that is communicated through being regular and showing up on time, every time. Anthony Iannarino is great with that with his Sunday newsletter, which you and I geeked out over a couple of weeks ago, he has had this Sunday newsletter for years, come rain or shine. You know Sunday morning in your inbox Anthony Iannarino has a new newsletter for you. And it's great content. It's fantastic content. And so through that process you're like, Oh my God, Anthony Iannarino, he's trustworthy, he's credible, he shows up, there are so many things that you infer from being predictable in that way. And so that's a huge thing when it comes to podcasting that I've been really trying to stick to as much as possible. Once a week, every Tuesday, a new episode comes out, and it's hard. But it's something that I think has helped build the audience. And I forget the question now.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 23:27<br>It's about the process. This is fantastic. And I can see why you're well placed to offer that advice. Because your background is sales, agency sales, you understand, get the audience right, understand why they would listen, speak, be committed. And then what's later, what are the other things to consider? You know, you said before, a month is a little bit too infrequent. What do you think the optimum kind of frequency is? And also length? And does it have to be, is it better to have guests or can you do some solo episodes? What's your views on that?<br><br></div><div>Nathan 24:05<br>Good, good point. So the first question was regularity. Yeah, I would say once a month is too infrequent. I think there's so much content out there that if you allow a month between episodes, people forget you really quickly, and then replace it with something else. And you want to kind of become that go to, you know, you want to always have episodes in there that people fit you into their routine in some way. In some way, they're like, okay, on Tuesdays, I go for a walk between this time and this time, I'm gonna listen to agency account skill, you know what I mean? Like you're fitted into their day, or their week in some way, shape, or form. And I think every month, it's harder to do that. So I would say a minimum twice a month. So every two weeks release an episode at a minimum. If you can do once a week even better. Length wise, it comes down to your audience and who you're targeting and the level of seniority. You know, senior people don't have a lot of time, I've been criticised a couple of times, for having a podcast that's over an hour long, every week. But you know, we have Joe Rogan, who has three hour episodes. And I think the people that want to stay around and listen to the entire show can, and others that want to get 20 minutes half an hour out of it can also get what they want to get from it as well. For us, a shorter 20 minute show wouldn't work, just because of the format of what we're going for. They're long form deep interviews with thought leaders, it's very hard to get under the under the skin of someone like that in 20 minutes. However, I do know that shorter form episodes for the podcast do tend to work quite well, because it fits into a decision makers schedule. So again, it comes back down to who is the persona that you're going after? And what are their problems and pains? And how do you help solve them with this format, this new format, this new content that you're creating?<br><br></div><div>Jenny 26:18<br>And would you say that putting in some solo episodes where you're sharing something might be still relevant? Or is it? I'm probably getting a bit granular here, but I'm just...<br><br></div><div>Nathan 26:30<br>This is this is good. I think that again, it comes back down to the persona targeting. But having a show, so our show for instance, it's one on one guests, one on one interviews, long form with a single guest. There are episodes, there are podcasts I listen to whereby you never really know what you're going to get, it's like it's roulette. And I think that's fun and interesting, because you're like, actually, I'm going to be surprised by the content this week. It may be one person that they interview, it may be a couple it may be, but I think, and this is just I don't have any evidence or data to support this, but I think that the favourite episode, the podcast that people like to listen to, are the ones that have a predictable structure that people are used to, or get used to. So if you are going to have an episode where it's just you, or you and somebody else, bake that into the predictability of it, don't do it just as you know, as a random thing, because people could get turned off by the fact that they're looking forward to a particular format and then suddenly, you're presenting something else. But if they know that it's what you do, it's what the show does, it's how the show is structured, then I think you have a better chance of, you know, making it stick. I don't have any data to support that. That's just my anecdotal, from listening to podcasts myself over the years. But I don't know, what do you what do you think on that Jenny?<br><br></div><div>Jenny 28:21<br>I feel the same. I mean, everything that you've shared so far I agree with and I was just curious if there's any other kind of things that you've seen where people get it wrong with podcasting. You've mentioned quite a few like talking over someone, not kind of taking the time to choose the right guests. Maybe not being narrow enough, not being informative enough, because I'm the same, I want to listen to a podcast and come away with some tips. You know, just little nuggets of wisdom. I learn at least one thing from every podcast I listen to, or even if it just brings something top of mind that you hadn't thought about for a while. So what other kind of things do you think happen where people get it wrong?<br><br></div><div>Nathan 29:05<br>Sometimes they try and be the star of the show, the host. That's a big No, No. You know, you're excellent at this Jenny. Your show, it's so, you do such a great job introducing the guests, setting the scene, letting us know why we should be listening to this person what they're all about. And then you let them do their thing. And then you jump in every now and again with a question to prod and let them allow them to open up. And then you you allow them to do their thing. And that's such, it's very hard to do when you are as knowledgeable as you are Jenny and know as much as you, because it's very easy, because<br><br></div><blockquote><strong>I've listened to a lot of podcasts and I'm sure you have as well where the host is extremely knowledgeable and they've got amazing experience and they can't wait to tell you all about their experience. And it's like, Okay, well, great, but I'm here to listen to the guests, so can we hear the guest. And I think the best interviewers, the best hosts are the ones that are able to ask the question, to be able to still demonstrate their expertise, but do it in a way that allows the guest to shine. Because at the end of the day, if the guest shines, they make the interview better. They make the podcast, the episode better. They are more likely to share it off the back of it, because they're like, I love this episode, I want to tell the world about it. So there's so much value in being a good facilitator of a conversation without, you know, dominating it. It's hard to do. It's not easy.<br></strong><br></blockquote><div>Jenny 30:54<br>It's not and actually, I feel quite uncomfortable sometimes listening to interviewers who keep butting in all the time, it's just like oh let the poor guy finish. So I agree with you, I think, my God, I've learnt a lot from you, Nathan, because, I listened to quite a few episodes before I came on the show, and I just thought, wow, this guy's so good. Like, I haven't listened to someone that's quite so good. And now, you're telling me your story I can see why. Where do you see this going in the future Nathan, is this saturated because I know that's what maybe some people are thinking? So where do you see podcasting going?<br><br></div><div>Nathan 31:33<br>Hmm. I mean, look, podcasting's been around for a very long time. It's only in the last couple of years that it seems to have gone mainstream. But back to like 2004/ 2005 people were, Kara Swisher and people like that were podcasting. And I think there's always going to be space for creating great thought leadership content that people are into, whatever form that takes, whether that is video, or audio, or texts, or what have you there's always going to be a need for people to you know, we're all lifelong learners now, now that we're all kind of these knowledge workers these days There's this ongoing need for personal and professional development. We all have to educate ourselves all the time. So whether that is audiobooks and my audible subscription is, they're now saying there are tiers, I'm one of the tiers! So I listened to a hell of a lot of Audible, I listened to a hell of a lot of podcasts. I subscribed to far too many, haven't got the hours in the day. And for me, there's a need for me to constantly be learning and growing and improving my skills. And whether that form takes the shape of an audio podcast, which is what we have today, or whether it is some combination of maybe one of these club houses or Twitter's got a new sort of format now, there's this insatiable need for people to upskill. And I think as long as you are able to put on, create content that is interesting and different and differentiated and gets really good speakers with great stories, it doesn't even have to be sort of big names, as long as they've got a great story to tell, people will always be interested in consuming that sort of content.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 33:45<br>Can you share a few of your favourite podcasts for the listeners?<br><br></div><div>Nathan 33:49<br>Oh, now that you've reminded me of <a href="https://www.agencydealmasters.com/episode/greg-mckeown-discusses-how-to-become-an-essentialist/">Greg McKeown</a> and <a href="https://www.agencydealmasters.com/episode/blair-enns-discusses-how-creative-businesses-win-without-pitching/">Blair Enns</a> I mean, those are some of my favourite. Greg McKeown was great, because it's Greg McKeown, you know, the author of Essentialism. And just one of the books that had such a profound fundamental effect on my life. And you read the book, and it's like, of course, of course. But it takes someone like that to really kind of just show it to you. So when I spoke to him, I was just, I mean butterflies and just like nervousness, had to have a sip of brandy! But he was just so nice and down to earth and accommodating. And we had this great chat about books. We had totally off script, because I had a whole thing planned of look, I'm talking to Greg McKeown, I need to be scripted, I need to know what I'm saying, when I'm saying but as soon as the conversation started, it went in a completely opposite direction and we just started riffing and talking, yeah, our influences and favourite books and stuff like that. So that was a great podcast. Rory Sutherland was great for a different reason. We only said that we would record for half an hour, I think he said initially, it went on into a two and a half hour podcast.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 35:14<br>Wow!<br><br></div><div>Nathan 35:15<br>I was like, okay, I'm sure you have other things to do Rory! So we had to break it up into three different episodes. It was just a monster of a conversation. And Rory is brilliant for every second of that two and a half hours. He was brilliant. He talks a million miles a minute. But everything that he says is just so true. And he's just a fountain of knowledge. That was a great conversation. I really loved that one. And there have been so many, so many Jenny.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 35:49<br>Well, you've had some fantastic guests. And thank you for pointing out those two, because I haven't listened to either one yet.<br><br></div><div>Nathan 35:55<br>All right. Okay.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 35:56<br>I've listened to quite a few, but I haven't. And what are the ones that you're actually listening to yourself? Like, any go to, particularly in the, obviously the sales space that you like?<br><br></div><div>Nathan 36:09<br>In sales? And I'm thinking of a really good one called, I can't remember the name of it now, but if you search <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/anthony-iannarino-gives-only-sales-guide-youll-ever/id655310847?i=1000380027947">Anthony Iannarino</a> podcast, it'll come up. He's just great. Anyway, so whatever he does, a book or magazine or tweets, right, Anthony Iannarino, I'm just consuming all of it. But I tend not to, I don't listen to that many sales podcasts actually. I listen to general business podcasts. I listen to, there's a great one that I listen to called<a href="https://hbr.org/2018/10/podcast-after-hours"> After Hours</a>, which is HBR so three Harvard Business Review professors talking about the economy and business and politics, but just from the perspective of educators, and Harvard Business School educators. So it's Youngme Moon, Felix and Mihir, they've all written books. Youngme Moon has written a great book called 'Difference' a few years ago. I've never really read a book like it. It's all about the power of differentiation. And that was just, I was like, I'm consuming everything that this woman does. She's amazing. So Youngme Moon, she's one of the main hosts on the show. The <a href="https://podcasts.voxmedia.com/show/pivot">Pivot Podcasts</a> is great, but obviously a lot of people know that. What else am I listening to? I really like <a href="https://www.marketplace.org/shows/">Market Place</a>, it's like a kind of a economics podcast. It's kind of a 30 minute daily, I have no idea how these people do it, but it's packed, it's economics, but for every man. So it's looking at trends, macro and micro trends and what it means to everyday people. But it's done, you know what I said earlier about if you can make a podcast educational, fun, and entertaining at the same time, like that does that, every day for 30 minutes. It's brilliant Marketplace podcast is fantastic. What else am I listening to? Creative Agency Account Manager podcast!<br><br></div><div>Jenny 38:26<br>I've heard that's really good.<br><br></div><div>Nathan 38:30<br>Of course, that is essential listening!<br><br></div><div>Jenny 38:34<br>These are great tips go on, did you have another one there?<br><br></div><div>Nathan 38:38<br>So I'll give you one more. That's the <a href="https://nav.al/">Naval</a> podcast, the happiness podcast. It's a fantastic one if you get a chance.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 38:45<br>Obviously, these are new to me so thank you so much. And they sound exactly the ones that I kind of like to listen to generally so thank you. Nathan, this has been absolutely fantastic. If there's an agency listening and thinking, I love what Nathan said, I would love to have a chat with him about what we could do as an agency or a brand for that matter. What's the best way that people can get hold of you, how can people reach you?<br><br></div><div>Nathan 39:11<br>So nathan@agencydealmasters.com is the email. Listen to the podcast, let us know what you think, I always like getting listener feedback on LinkedIn and email. So it's just nathananibaba on LinkedIn. Yeah, the entry point is the podcast. Listen to one that you like the look of and let me know what you think. They're not all great by the way! Some of them are better than others. I'm my harshest critic.<br><br></div><div>Jenny 39:41<br>Nathan honest, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for sharing so much value. So many tips. Very, very enlightening. I've learnt loads. So thank you so much. And I'll put all the notes and the links in the show notes. So thank you once again for coming on.<br><br></div><div>Nathan 39:56<br>You're very welcome. Thank you for having me, Jenny.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2021 06:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/xw7lrv28.mp3" length="44454577" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/0127e7e0-b650-11eb-816e-ed9c744d7954/0127e8f0-b650-11eb-8c4c-a1c96db32954.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2222</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 31. This episode's for you if you're interested in the idea of podcasting becoming part of your new business strategy.

Perhaps you've been considering having podcast for a while. Or maybe you've got one already, and you're looking for some tips to make it even better. Or maybe you're just simply open to the idea of having a podcast or maybe you're dead against it.

Hopefully, Nathan Anibaba is going to shed some light on this. He is an expert in this area, having hosted his own podcast, and he's now at 140 episodes, Agency Dealmasters. He shared with us lots of tips, lots of insight into the world of podcasting. He explains why it's so beneficial to businesses for generating new leads, where people go wrong with podcasting and the key steps to consider.

I really hope you find this valuable. 

If you haven't done so already, please come over to my website and check out all of the information I've got there for agency account managers. You can take a quiz, which is all about agency growth. You can also sign up for my weekly news newsletter where I share advice and tips for agency account managers and all of the episodes of the podcast. I look forward to speaking to you on the next one.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 31. This episode's for you if you're interested in the idea of podcasting becoming part of your new business strategy.

Perhaps you've been considering having podcast for a while. Or maybe you've got one already, and you're looking for some tips to make it even better. Or maybe you're just simply open to the idea of having a podcast or maybe you're dead against it.

Hopefully, Nathan Anibaba is going to shed some light on this. He is an expert in this area, having hosted his own podcast, and he's now at 140 episodes, Agency Dealmasters. He shared with us lots of tips, lots of insight into the world of podcasting. He explains why it's so beneficial to businesses for generating new leads, where people go wrong with podcasting and the key steps to consider.

I really hope you find this valuable. 

If you haven't done so already, please come over to my website and check out all of the information I've got there for agency account managers. You can take a quiz, which is all about agency growth. You can also sign up for my weekly news newsletter where I share advice and tips for agency account managers and all of the episodes of the podcast. I look forward to speaking to you on the next one.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What are the financial metrics &amp; best operational model for a fast growth agency?, with Mark Probert</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/mn4my3q8</link>
      <itunes:title>What are the financial metrics &amp; best operational model for a fast growth agency?, with Mark Probert</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>30</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">x066n820</guid>
      <description>This episode is for you if you're interested in the finance and operations side of the agency business. Mark Probert is an expert in helping agencies scale fast. In this episode, he shares with me some of the most useful financial benchmarks that high growth agencies use, such as what a healthy financial position looks like in terms of liquidity, typical revenue, target per staff member, average billable rates, and lots more. 

He also shares why agencies are hiring ahead of the business need currently, and also shares his thoughts on the most conducive agency business model for growth. I learned loads in this episode, and I really hope you do too. 

If you're an account manager with two to three years experience working in an agency, and you really want to 
- fast track your career
- be recognised for adding more value to your existing accounts, and growing the existing business

then the next Account Accelerator Programme starts on 2nd September 2021. This is a 12 week programme, where I help you create a client centric plan to add value to your existing accounts and increase the revenue from those existing accounts in 90 days. Places are limited on this course and I'm taking enquiries now. So if this sounds like you then drop me a line. It's jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or find me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:<br></strong><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 00:02</strong><br>So I'm delighted today that I've managed to get some time in the diary with Mark Probert. Mark is managing partner of Cact.us, the leading UK agency growth consultancy, and also managing partner of Agencynomics, a social enterprise and the largest free of charge community in the UK for agency founders. Welcome, Mark.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 00:23</strong><br>Hi Jenny. Thanks for having me on. I feel honoured with the guests you've had on this.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 00:28</strong><br>No, honestly I've wanted to have you on for ages. So I'm really excited about diving into this topic. Would you mind spending a couple of minutes first of all, Mark, just talking about you, your background, a bit of your experience and how you help agencies?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 00:42</strong><br>Okay, do you want the short story or the long story?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 00:44</strong><br>However it comes.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 00:46</strong><br>Okay, well, maybe it's helpful to go back a few years. So whilst I was at school in Hampshire, I had a variety of different jobs. And as somebody that never really wanted to go to university I had this thing in me where I wanted to go and work and I had various things going on, a car wash business, run a cigarette kiosk of all things, stuff like that, and went into went into college, kind of enjoyed my business studies, thought actually Maths might be the thing for me, I was quite good with numbers at the time, maybe not so much now that this technology to do these things for you. So I went into accountancy practice. And I went in at the age of 18, had a couple of other jobs on the side of the weekends and so on. And I probably then spent about the next 18 years trying to get out of accountancy practice, so 18 to 18 even I can add that 36. So basically I went into different accountancy, doing audits, tax, a bit of M&amp;A work, business advisory. And what I always loved doing was working with SMEs. Absolutely loved it. I love seeing somebody come up with an idea, run with that idea and either make it or not make and we can try and help them a little bit along the way with what we we could advise on. But when I said about trying to escape, I got to the point where I moved up to Scotland probably 19, 20 years ago, with my wife, now wife, Kirsty and joined a variety of firms up here, tried a different couple of different ones, went to Grant Thornton, which is my last one, obviously big, big multinational. And I'd got to the point then really where I was trying to get out of doing accounts and audit and tax and so I wanted to do something a bit different. But perhaps naively, what I ended up doing there was working on some big global brand, you know, audits, accounts, and so on. But I also learned quite a lot at that time in that environment in Scotland in Grant Thornton, about marketing and the value of marketing. So for once, the first time ever in my life, I kind of took a step back and thought hang on a minute. I dabbled into industry once upon a time before, didn't like it, went into a company that was too big came back out into practice. I thought it's probably time to be a bit selfish and go, well forget this party route that everybody kind of steps into in accountancy where you're a trainee, and you progress up the rungs and so on. And I thought it's probably time to try something a bit different. I took time to think about what that was. And that ended up being Cact.us. So I knew Pete, a really good friend of mine that I've known since I was four or five. So there's a whole backstory there which is a different podcast, there's a few stories in there! And he was up in Edinburgh one weekend, we were sat in my living room for a glass of wine catching up, and he said are you okay? And I was, uh, you know what, I just need to do something different. I'm fed up doing what I'm doing, doesn't mean anything, I don't feel like I'm helping anybody, I've kind of lost the sort of buzz. So anyway, he went away, give me a call the next night when he got home and said, you should come and join us. Totally out of the blue, you know, what does that mean? And what Cact.us was at that time, and that was probably seven or eight years ago, nearly now, Cact.us was eight people, Spencer Gallagher, my colleagues, ex agency owners who have grown and sold their agency, their designer build agency. And they'd set up Cact.us and Cact.us was consulting to independent agencies in the kind of 6/ 700,000 turnover up to about four or 5 million space. And they were helping them holistically around, you know, all the areas of the business finance ops - marketing, sales culture, and trying to help people get to what their vision, you know, wherever their vision was, they're trying to help them on that journey. Pete very much helping on the finance and ops, Spencer, very much the tech sales marketing. So, again, long story short, I joined six and a half years, sort of probably about that time now ago and over the time, I've partnered with other ex agency owners. I do very similar to what Pete does, helping very much on the financial and operational side of businesses. That can be getting my hands dirty on some of the stuff up to helping people hire in their finance teams or their operation teams up to M&amp;A work, which last year Cact.us I think we did 12 deals with different varieties. So that's what I now do. And I don't ever call it a job now. I think I ended up when I looked for that role seven years ago, who I had various other opportunities but this one sort of stood out because it was helping SMEs, entrepreneurial people with an idea. And yeah, I love what I do now, it's is not really a job.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 05:19</strong><br>It shows!<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 05:21</strong><br>There's a long story, Jenny?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 05:23</strong><br>I didn't really know half of that. So it is really valuable already for me. So I know how many agencies you work with and it's very difficult to actually get a time with you to work with you. But when an agency comes to you and says, right, an agency owner says I want to grow. What are the very first things that you do with that business? What do you look at first?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 05:44</strong><br>Well the very first thing I do is spend some time getting to know them. Because you know, everyone knows about The Four Fs, as they call them - Fun, Fame, Fortune, Future kind of thing. And what I always want to do is feel like I get to know the person. For me, I did a poll on LinkedIn a few weeks ago, I think I know which way you answered this one, actually similar to me, where is what is the one sort of area of the business you'd really want to, you want to monitor a KPI on? And for me, people thought I'd have said finance, and I said clients. Clients are key to me, like, absolutely, fundamentally, it's about client care to me, always has been. And that for me is, you've got to enjoy working with somebody. And I suppose my motto is, it's got to be bloody hard work for me, but it's got to be enjoyable. And that, for me is get to know the person first and foremost. And then there's all the usual stuff isn't there, funnels of how you get them to work with you, and so on. And suddenly, we implemented a while ago was we put in a health check for the business, where what's really useful for that is, I have a lot of kind of new business, if you want to call them that, calls with people that have completed their health check on our website at Cact.us. And it identifies areas of business where they don't see themselves scoring very highly. So it might be, I don't know, they might not have a cash flow projection, or it might be they have no marketing strategy, bizarrely, even though they're a marketing agency. And these things often root out quite quickly for us what their problems are. And so for me, it's get to know the person first and foremost on, at the moment obviously, a lot of calls, get to really feel like you know them and starting to get a bit friendlier with them. Over time building up a friendship more than a working relationship, I think is really important. And then there's the work side, identifying quickly what their problems are, so that you can help them quickly. Because a lot of people think they need help, like yesterday. But it's trying to identify what the real issues are. Because they might think it's one thing and it might not be that thing.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 07:41</strong><br>Okay, perfect. So I'll include a link to the health check on this podcast as that sounds really, really valuable. And absolutely, you would imagine that it would be some kind of audit. So that sounds like it's super.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 07:52</strong><br>It is like an audit, yeah.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 07:54</strong><br>So I know that your specialism is the financial and operation side. So can you talk us through some of the kind of standard financial benchmarks and parameters that you believe would help an agency grow?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 08:09</strong><br>Okay. For me, there's huge worries around staff costs, obviously, at the current time as well, that can be a bit difficult for some people to monitor, we've still got all the furlough stuff and that going on, but for me, this is one of the, what's the word for this, this is a confusion in the market. There are other advisors that look at staff costs in a different way that we do at Cact.us. So the biggest thing for us really is staff cost, the gross profits. So that for me is the biggest metric to watch, or one of the big five, as I call them I suppose. So what I mean by us different to others is, a lot of the big networks would treat their gross profit differently to how an independent would. So they will do sales, but lots of terminology now when people call them different things generally, but sales, less cost of sales, equals gross profit. A lot of people will put advisors will put staff costs into the cost of sale. So if somebody, if a web developers working specifically on a on a web project for a client, they might attribute some of their time to cost of sale, to the cost of making that sale. We wouldn't do that. So what we do is very much try and keep a lot of what we do at Cact.us, believe it or not, is try and keep it very simple. So we're quite aware that in the independent space, people don't often have resource, okay, so they don't want to buy in the non fee earners like the finance people, maybe the marketeers or whatever. Project managers, you'll know this, this is what you do in your account management, project management stuff. So for me, the staff cost, the gross profit ratio is we keep sales, the sales, we put pretty much nothing in cost of sales. So it might be a bit of a hosting of a website, might be a licence, you know if you're reselling it to a client, but all people costs are in overheads. So in our view, all people are overheads. As soon as you hire them there are fixed costs. Yep. But a lot of other people completely change that, do it differently, split the employee costs and so on. Some of the big networks do it that way. When I did a deal last year with an agency in Bristol and we sold them to McCann's, McCann's did it that way, you know, but that's because they've got a whole team of finance people doing their numbers and analysis. So what we say is, an agency of a million pound might not even have a full time finance person, more often than not, they don't. So what they should do is another question, but you know what, why make it complicated? You know, why make it complicated?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 10:38</strong><br>Okay. So it simplifies it, from an accountancy perspective or more from an understanding?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 10:45</strong><br>I think, by the way, there's no right or wrong way in accountancy. I mean, I can say that I suppose with my accountancy degree hat on or whatever, that you can do it either way, it's up to you. But for us, it's about that day to day, month to month internal reporting. Why make it really complex and take my salary and put some up there, some down the bottom? And then go, Oh hang on, what are my staff costs to my revenue? I'm going to do this funny calculation to work it all out? Or why waste all that time? What we would say is, if you're operating in between 55, it used to be 55 to 65% of your, let's say, gross profit figure, which is nearly a sales figure in the capitalist world. Yeah. Then you are about right, you're running an agency that's about the right kind of staffing level. Although I would say at the moment, a lot of people are edging towards say 70% regularly because they're investing a little bit ahead of sales a little bit. A number of agencies, probably the ones that are faster growing.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 11:43</strong><br>Oh right. Why are they doing that? Just so that they've got people ready to kind of hit the ground?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 11:48</strong><br>People ready to hit the ground, they've got the buffer of the government money. So a lot of agencies, believe it or not, are quite buoyant, in terms of cash reserves at the moment, still are, even though it's what, it's 5th May sort of time, they've still got a buffer of reserves. So they're thinking, well actually, we're quite confident at the moment, it's hard to get people, so let's go on hiring, let's try and hire some people in, it's hard to get them. There's still a lot of people, some people moving, some aren't and so on. Why not invest some of that money in people? Because that's ultimately what we're going to be trying to get our value in going forward.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 12:25</strong><br>That makes total sense. Have you got any other benchmarks that you can share with us?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 12:30</strong><br>Yeah, yeah. So we tend to say, well I tend to say, that three times somebody's salary is what they should be earning an agency, you might have heard that before? So somebody on 40 grand, they should be doing 120 grand billable work. Lots of the bigger agencies have that number down to a fine, you know, 3.2, or whatever. We would say, the Cact.us fag packet here, it's three. Times 3, is the revenue kind of target for everybody. Liquidity is always one, some people ask me often how much money should we have in the bank, and then they pull out their mobile phone, and then it all goes wrong! You go, it's not about what you've got today. It's about what you've got covering your costs. And so some people work to six times their overheads. So if their overheads 100 grand a month, they can actually have 600 grand in the bank. I think I'm quite a cautious finance person in some respects. I think that's, that's an awful lot of headroom to give yourself if you're trying to scale something quite quickly. And all this I suppose, depends on vision and so on as to what you're doing. But, you know, a couple of months is enough. A couple of months in the bank is enough. So there's a ratio, I do Pete hates this one, I call it, he always calls me Horatio Probert as in Horatio Nelson! This is the current ratio where you do your assets on your balance sheet, bank and cash and your debtors, who owes you money, divided by your liabilities. You know, you owe the VAT man, you are HMRC your payroll, you owe your suppliers if you've got any. That VAT, if that's more than three to one- three pounds to one pound, you're in quite healthy position for a lot of even project based agencies. You know, if it's two to one, you're fine. If it's less than one, you've got problems.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 14:12</strong><br>Some poor agency leader listening to this somewhere thinking, Oh, no!<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 14:16</strong><br>Well, maybe, maybe!<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 14:18</strong><br>And this is fascinating, and what about billable percentages? Do you have any benchmarks around that?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 14:26</strong><br>Yeah, yeah. I suppose the minimum for us is 64%. So what I mean by that is, so if somebody has capacity, if they're 80% available to work, they've got holidays, and so on and then nobody is super efficient nobody's a machine or though sometimes I think you might be with all these podcasts Jenny, you're amazing! Nobody's a machine. So that's 80% against 80% of 80% is 64. So what I mean by that is the minimum number, somebody should be able to do that's a billable resource is 64% of their time, and you'll you'll find that you know, in a dev agency, maybe web developers 80 or 90% kind of thing in creative, maybe not as high, then different job roles, not as much obviously account management very different and so on. So we would tend to work on, somebody should be doing about 64% if they're mostly a billable resource, and you tend to find, I think, in some of the industry reports that have been done in the last couple of years that you know, some people ,you will know this well, it works out, I think the average is about 63/65, something like that. So our starting figure is about right usually.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 15:31</strong><br>Perfect. What about your views on account management? Should account management be billable or non billable?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 15:43</strong><br>Should it be sorry, billable or non billable did you say? And should it be split up in terms of job roles?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 15:48</strong><br>No. Well, just in terms of the account management role, should it be billable or not? What's your view? Or does it vary? Or is it just, from your perspective?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 15:58</strong><br>I think most people tend to say it's not billable. But I still think there is elements of it that could be billable. And it just depends how you're packaging up your offering to your client, isn't it? Really, at the end of the day. If your value based pricing, then you can wrap all that up, and there's no issue is there? This is your price and that's what we create and you know somebody that you and I work with that does kind of thing and so on. So maybe it's chargeable, maybe it has been billed, but that has not been identified to the client as such.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 16:27</strong><br>I have to ask you, because you've mentioned it, how many agencies do you come across that do actually manage to do value based pricing?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 16:33</strong><br>Oh limited. I know, it's the utopia, isn't it, people want to try it and, and so on. One that you and I work with, another one that I work with, I work in a pair, I probably should have said this earlier on actually, I work in a partnership with a guy called Danny Turnbull who you'll know, most of the time now. But I also have a number of clients of my own that I've had for years in different guises of support to them and I would say there's probably two of those that do it. One very, very well. But that's mainly because they've got a couple of big clients, and they've had them for quite a few years and I think they've always sold on that basis. And, and one that's been trying it recently, and it's been working. I think that the other thing is, people worry too much about pricing about changing their prices, how do they find out what the competition is doing? And I know that's not that's a hot topic for you and other people. But why don't you just try things? I mean, it's I just don't get it sometimes. I think people overanalyse it all and they overanalyse finance too much, numbers, and it's just like, just try it. What have you got to lose kind of thing?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 17:40</strong><br>That's really good advice, actually. Yeah, absolutely. Well, this has been so valuable already. Mark, thank you for sharing so many benchmarks. I'm sure that's been a few lightbulb moments going off. I'm interested to know about your thoughts on the most conducive agency business model that you've found has worked the best if someone wants fast growth?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 18:02</strong><br>Interesting. You'll probably imagine I'll say Pods here?. And I will say Pods, but what I won't say who but, I helped somebody last year, I've worked for them for quite a few years, and helped them sell their agency. And they've gone into a much bigger thing now, I think it's 160 people, a company bought them from overseas. And I asked the owner of that, while I was there working with them and still supporting them and so on, so I asked the owner, I think it was a couple of weeks ago on the on the board call, 'How did you scale your agency?' and I'm thinking, well he's got to have done this by the Pod style, I'll come onto the Pods in a minute, but got it done this via some kind of Pod. And he's just basically, and he's a development agency making the main, and he's just he was just like, so we just made sure we got the best people we could get. And I said yeah, but you must have had a structure. And he said not really. People that are doing the development also sell to the client. And I'm going, how does this happen that you know, struggling with this concept, like quite a bit. And he just said it's just all about getting the best people and training them. And eventually if they go off to say, I want to just be a developer and I don't want to do any kind of account management or sales, whatever it is, then that's fine. We're fine with that. But we give them a lot of training around different areas. And I know you said to me before you had sales training many years ago, you found that like game changing almost. And this guy had done that with people that you wouldn't anticipate would have had sales training. You'd necessarily be giving sales training to the development team and so on. But he said let them try it, let them see how they get on and they might not be able to do it and they probably can't do it all but let's just see. And his point was very much about getting the superstar people in the first place, spending a lot of time on the recruitment side of things. So that's the one I've heard that's a bit different. The Pod stuff, I mean, that for me usually works if you do it right.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 20:02</strong><br>For those listening, who perhaps haven't come across the concept of a Pod structure, what what actually is a Pod structure?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 20:09</strong><br>Okay, so you kind of got three bits to the agency, I did it the other way around, you've got the kind of management almost, I mean, that may be the CEO, and maybe the finance director, whatever, as you scale up, obviously a million pounds, you probably, the owners kind of over here. In the middle you've got the core team servicing the client and what I mean by that is a project, we all call it different terminology obviously, but a project, different types of agency, a project manager, an account manager, and then the specialists, it might be a real data specialist specialist or strategists maybe in that role. And then it might be, a mobile and web agency I work with, they just hired a scrum master to go into that sort of PM role. So that they can do the all the efficiency and operational stuff and the management of the work scheduling and so on. The account manager hopefully then is more freed up to service the client properly, the stuff you advice on, obviously expertly, and sells a little bit in the right way to the client, have the right meetings, the quarterly meetings or whatever, talk about the strategy with the client, not be worried about, bogged down with how the team going to service it all. It's the PMs role, and then you've got the specialists to come into the meetings, obviously with the accounts person and hopefully get better ideas out of the client, which the agency can then deliver on. That's the kind of the core bit and that Pods in so many variables to that. That Pod, we tend to say might do 650 revenue up to about a million. But that could be a couple of big clients, can be multiple, multiple small ones, or a mixture of both. Obviously, there is no definitive numbers on these because, as you know, you could have had one client that had the Pods that had 1.8 million going through, it only had two clients, because one of them was a huge client for the agency, the account management team couldn't have coped with five or six other clients, it just wouldn't have been feasible. So that's that, and then you've almost got, and this is no derogatory term, the bench, the bench is the people doing the work. So it might be the development team, it might be, sometimes search agencies I think, don't maybe adopt this model and they see they don't see how it works for them, when they might have an SCO head, a PPC heads, whatever, a social media head and they think, how can this work? But actually it can work, and we've put it into some search agencies before and it does work, but it takes time, the Pod thing probably takes six to eight months to properly put in. Because you're trying to map out what you are now, where you want to go and show people their career opportunities. So you've got to get all that out clear first and understand it before you can go anywhere near doing it.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 22:50</strong><br>And if you get above million pound revenue per pod, how does that pod grow? Or doesn't it? Do you just set up another pod?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 22:58</strong><br>Yeah. That's a good question. So I suppose the logical, I say the logical thing, in reality, what happens is you might have, you might have, people bring in a lot of account people don't they, you always want to be hiring the account manager and account exec or whatever and they're not really thinking about the role. So if you've got it clarified, you go well, okay, I've got one Pod, I might start another one and start putting some clients into there, I might have this PM role kind of floating between the two. Then as it gets bigger, you hire in another, or you bring on another account exec into a more CSD, however big the agency is they manage the other Pod, and eventually, I say CSD they're probably the person overseeing. It's a little bit like our friends that we work with, where they've got a CSD character haven't they, overseeing various Pod leads.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 23:49</strong><br>Gotcha, that makes sense. And you found that actually, that's the most conducive, because obviously, different agencies that you start working with, have probably got all different structures. But do you tend to kind of try to formulate that structure? Or give them the benefits of doing that? And do you find that they say, Oh, yes, that's fine, or do you get any resistance?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 24:09</strong><br>There's always, there is a lot, obviously, it's pretty, I mean, this is the person's, people's company, you're sort of. And they've got a history of trying to grow the company to a certain stage, and then they're looking for somebody to help and, nobody has, we have no magic wands. We just have, I suppose between us a lot of experience. Yeah. And people do resist it. Absolutely they do. And sometimes it doesn't work. And I've worked with somebody before where they almost took it by the words of the book and tried to implement it really quickly. And they didn't really I think, from stepping back and looking at third party sort of in, they didn't really do what we just said- say What are we now? What do we want to be, in might be this posture and how are we going to evolve to? That can't just change overnight. This is people's lives, careers and so on. You're sort of messing with. They didn't take the time. So you do get a lot of resistance, but actually, they go back to their health check question, I think most agencies we end up working with, the biggest issue is the structure isn't right. So they think it's lots of other things, that actually, when you sit back and answer, go through it all and think of like, it's often the structure is not right. And I don't think there is, I don't think there is another model we've put in somewhere that's really worked better than this pod system. When it's worked well, it's worked really well.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 25:29</strong><br>So Mark that's really fascinating. So what's a symptom that they come with? And then you unpick it and realise it's a structure?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 25:37</strong><br>Sometimes, the debate we've had once upon a time actually, often it's that AM/PM sort of split and I know that's obvious to say, but one of the exercises we often do is say, let's say financial budgeting? Yeah. So we're doing I don't know, let's just say we're doing 100 grand a month revenue this year at the moment, it's okay. Well, let's have a high level stab at next year's budget. Okay, where are we going to start? And some people go, well, the sales gonna go up in line like this, or the cost of this, we need to make this much at the top, and then you go, okay, well, let's take it another way. What clients have you got, what you're going to get from those clients? You know, it's just, it sounds obvious to some, but it's not obvious. I know, to lots of people. What are you going to get from those clients, what do you think you could get, all that usual stuff? And then you go, okay, and then they go, but we can't get that and you go, why can't you get it? And I guess our account management team aren't good enough. And you go, okay, well, what do the account managers do then? And then you start to, oh right, so that person's a project manager, then? No, they're an account, you know, and then you start getting into that debate. And that's why I say often, it's the structure. It really is. And always, I think most of the time you find agencies have too many people for the revenue they're doing. Because they're because the structure isn't right. So they're throwing people at it, not fixing processes and systems. And I could go on about this all day, and I probably am.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 27:00</strong><br>You've treated me with this discussion. Because yeah, being an account manager, myself, most of my life, I was a marketing manager for a few years, but most of my life, I've been in account management, and most of that tenure has been in hybrid roles. So I am the project manager, and I am the account manager. And I've only, it's one of those things that I've realised later in my career now, I'm consulting with agencies, how nuts that really is.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 27:28</strong><br>It's interesting.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 27:29</strong><br>It just really fights. I mean, I'm sure there are people out there that just can, convinced that it works, and it has worked. But I just see really, really talented, commercially minded account managers coming on my course, this is I suppose this is my day to day experience, and yet they're kind of really bogged down by admin resourcing, scopes of work, of financial reconciliations. And you think, my God, they should be out there selling, growing, adding value to the business, you know, talking to clients and helping.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 28:01</strong><br>Yeah, yeah, exactly.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 28:03</strong><br>And just carry on really...<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 28:08</strong><br>Some people, I hope a few have people listen to this eventually, and some people won't know me or whatever, and they'll think, how does this guy profess to know about this stuff, when he's never worked in an agency, he's only been here six years. And actually, people don't often, but if they asked me what my previous experiences were, then accountancy practices bizarrely, are not that different to an agency. They're not as creative. I'll give you I'll give you that. I'll give you that. But they have account management roles. They have project management roles, they have delivery roles, they have graduate trainees that take up a lot of time for the senior people and that comes resent, you know, all these things very similar. And an often and I think, what did I have in many roles? I had far too many things going on, I was trying to manage 35 clients, a team of 40 people, win new business, up-sell to a client and work with a marketing team, and be head of client satisfaction. So you're like, well, how can you do all those things? Many years ago, I saw somebody I know actually up here in Scotland and went into a role as a new business director in an accountancy. Everyone was like, oh, my goodness, how can you have that completely non fee earning, just just just like going out like schmoozing all the time? Absolutely you could because they got their structure right. They had the right people doing the jobs, the work, doing the technical bits, you know, project managing it for one of the better words. So, it's a very similar industry in a lot of ways that people often overlook.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 29:41</strong><br>And how would you if someone's listening to this, and it's really resonating with them and thinking, actually, we could look at separating these two roles. Where would you advise an agency owner start with that process?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 29:52</strong><br>I think the thing for me would be to not necessarily write down what that person's doing, although sometimes that's a good place to start, because then you might identify, is to write down what you think account managers should be doing, and what you think project managers should be doing. And then sitting and looking at the team you've got and going well, okay, well, if the if these are the right people, right seat, if these are the right people, then do they fit into these roles? If they don't fit into these roles, you've got a slight issue, obviously, they need to deal with overtime. But, you know, there might be other roles that they go into. I think you've got to clearly identify what you think the roles are. And then if it's not quite right, you've got to be honest and transparent with your team about that. And so I've got a client at the moment where one of the team doesn't really know what they want to do in their career, but is pivotal at the moment to the agency given the size of it. And really, the agency needs both. It needs AM and it needs a PM. And it really does need these roles separated out, it scores in too many inefficiencies. So what we've done is we've basically job specked out those two roles, and said absolutely, you're the right person to grow with this agency. Absolutely you are. And it's up to you, you go whichever way you want. But we support you, it might be Jenny Plants training on account management, it might be getting somebody else for your project management, training, specialists support around you might be sales training, but you can have all the training you want. But in this agencies opinion, this person needs to choose which role they go. And I think that can sound a bit harsh, but actually, I've worked with many people over the years before I did this, and some people do need that bit of a steer on their career path, they need a bit of help, because they are a bit kind of lost often.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 31:51</strong><br>I agree, Mark. And I also think there's a bit of what do you have a natural tendency for, like, what's your natural default, because having worked with so many different kind of hybrid account managers, and also, project managers, project managers are really good at process, getting things done, being transactional, and kind of their very good with clients. But account managers are, pure account managers tend to be different, they're very, they're kind of, they're looking at account growth, they're looking at business strategy, they're looking at adding value, and you can kind of put them in the middle of a room and by the end of the night, they'll know everyone. The more and more I see these different types of, I think people have a natural tendency towards one or the other. And I think if you ask anyone, I think they'd probably, if they're really honest, it's probably quite obvious from the outside. But asking someone as well, I think would be a good way of...<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 32:49</strong><br>Do you personality test people then?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 32:51</strong><br>I don't, but, I'm thinking about starting to do it.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 32:53</strong><br>Yeah, I know a few people that do that. And it's quite interesting. But then I sometimes think that it's about, it's like you just said actually, if you've got the right people on board, and that in itself is a huge thing, take your time to get the right people and so on. And you want them to grow with you. So why not offer them opportunity? You know, why not go this is us today, and it's almost that visionary piece, and this is a lot of what we would do, is work with, What are you today? Where do you want to go? And now you need to be articulating that clearly to the team. Because if you don't, people will leave, that's proven without a doubt. I mean, there's a lot of surveys out at the moment around this, its lack of communication, lack of clarity of company, which is understandable given the year we've just been on. But what we try and what I'm certainly trying to get our clients to do at the moment is spend time working on what the agency is, where it's going and speaking to the team about it regularly keeping everybody informed.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 33:11</strong><br>Great idea because then everyone feels like they're coming with you rather than fighting against you.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 33:52</strong><br>Yeah, hopefully, yeah.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 33:55</strong><br>I think that bit like, just from personal experience, looking back on my career, I was bogged down with spreadsheets. And you know, I was much better at being with people, my communication skills are much better than actually sitting there poring over financial reconciliations, etc. So I just think that this topic is huge, as you say, get the right people. And if they're in the right seats, then the business has a fighting chance of of growing really well. I'm just curious, what types of questions should agency owners be asking you that they don't?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 34:31</strong><br>What should they be asking? Oh, goodness. Okay, I've done a lot of pitches over my time before this, before Cact.us and I don't ever get asked about that. I think people think oh he was the accountant and like, you couldn't be creative and so on. And a lot of qualifying out opportunities and working out whether it was right for our firm and for all the rest of it, but people never ask us about if we came up with many innovative ways of pitching or, or even innovative, I suppose upsell sort of opportunities. And what I mean by that is, we came up with this thing, at Grant Thornton actually, I think it was, where we called it the CEO room, because we're not good at branding obviously, you know as accountants, but the CEO room was basically a concept where if you think we were working with mostly some big organisations in Scotland, but also global organisations that happen to have a presence in Scotland, so one for example, had offices I think in Dubai, New York and so on. And so what we came up with, this concept where we get the senior leaders in that company into a room with us, and we would get the top people from audit, tax, whatever it is, M&amp;A, you know, advisory work, and we would just sit and listen and brainstorm, not always sit, but brainstorm around where that company was going. So the company they would tell us like, well, we're in, I don't know, Africa at the moment, and we're thinking of going to Brazil, and so on and blah, blah, blah. And the idea was that, was that we could then sit and listen about all the opportunities that would be for tax planning, or overseas branches. And you know, duty was in most countries in the world. So that in itself bought quite a lot of fee income back to the company, I think that concept.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 36:20</strong><br>Absolutely great idea. And anything else?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 36:24</strong><br>Anything else? That they should be asking me that they don't? I can't think of anything else. I can't Jenny.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 36:33</strong><br>No, that's okay. This is so good. And you're delivering some knowledge bombs. And how much visibility of the agency numbers do you think the whole team should have versus just the agency owner?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 36:48</strong><br>Okay, so I work with a couple of people. One particular, and I've done some sort of strategy work with the other one is, and they let their team see everything. So like, salaries for everybody, self regulate a little bit. Like, have you read Maverick, the book by Ricardo?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 37:11</strong><br>No.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 37:11</strong><br>Oh, you must, that book is a, I'll get it right now. I think it was a family business in Brazil. And the business wasn't doing too well, I think it was a manufacturing business. Anyway, so the son took it on. And he came in with a complete unique way of looking at things. So for example, everybody knew what everybody was getting paid. And this was a big, big company, by the way, they would do a little thing on the door where they would, this is going back quite a few years where they would, you would go in and you would colour tag against your name. So it told everybody going in when they went to clock in, what mood you're in. which I thought was genius. We did a similar thing, once at GT where we did personality profiling, and we had everybody's colours up on their name tag around the office. So when you go round, you could see, all right well, I know Mark's a headcase so I'm not going to speak to him, then. So that was one of the first times I've ever read about this self regulating the pay and so on. And I know two agencies that do that and it seems to work for them. One of them's got, constantly wins, like best culture in the sort of small business section of different things. Very, very open agency. The other one and they're in the UK, the other one is a dispersed agency, a development house where they, they've got people in, I can't remember how many countries around the world, it's not that big, it's probably 15 to 20 people. But again, imagine that one where somebody in the UK could be paid 50 grand versus somebody somewhere else in a different society that's maybe pay 20 for the same job. But it works for them, because they understand that UK living, the cost of living is so much more different, so vice versa, whatever. So it works. Would I do it? I don't know, if I would!<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 39:00</strong><br>You've got some good case studies though where it's worked so would you say that you would recommend it?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 39:06</strong><br>I don't think I would possibly go to the extremes with the cash flow. Because the cash flow sometimes, although as I said early on, a lot are pretty okay at the moment, that can be a complete stress. And I think that unless you were 100% transparent about everything and everybody understood the commercials and the impact of those and actually, in one of those agencies, they train people on financial the financials as well. So that's probably why it helps, you know, then I don't think I would go personally to that extreme, because I think there are a couple of things you perhaps don't need to share and that pressure almost maybe doesn't, although some people would say that pressure is a good thing, but you can't drive the sales if that's not, you know, is it a good thing? But what I would say is other than maybe the cash flow and probably wouldn't do the salaries, although I've worked, and I've got this sort of gone with a couple of clients at the moment, we're looking at salary bandings, and so and I've worked in places where that's where that's worked and hasn't really caused too many issues at all really. Would I go salaries? Probably not. Would I share everything else? Probably. Because I think the more you hide, the less the team feel they're part of something don't they?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 40:17</strong><br>I agree, yeah, absolutely. Okay, that's good advice. Look, I'm conscious of time. But I do have another couple of questions. In terms of the changes we've seen happening, Mark, I know you were really active on LinkedIn, sharing some fantastic information that you're interpreting really quickly from what the government was talking about in terms of furlough schemes, etc, and grants and aid for agencies. So I know that you've done a lot of work in this area, but what do you see sort of happening now and in the agency landscape in the near future?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 40:49</strong><br>Okay. I think there's a few things actually. M&amp;As, obviously, on a lot of people's lips, you're probably hearing that in some of them, if you follow other podcasts, or talks or whatever. But it goes back to what I said earlier on in quite a few agencies and I've got some of these at the moment, I'm doing two deals at the moment where we're probably selling the agencies actually, and another one might be doing a kind of management buyout, which I'm helping on, but people have got money. Some agencies have got a pile of money they've had a CBIL (Coronavirus Business Interruption Loan). They might have just topped that up as well, with a recovery loan that they've been able to get, to get whether it's right on or not, I'm not going to say on this, because it's up to the people individually. But people have got money to spend. And although what I would say on the flip side is, a lot of agencies are doing quite well. So their prices are not going down and a couple we sold towards the end of last year were good good prices, so it's not like you're gonna get necessarily a cheap deal. And if you were I'd probably be thinking, well, why are we buying that? You know, is it the right thing? That's one thing. I think a lot of pipelines at the moment that I see, because we have our own pipeline tool that we've tried to put into agencies and so on, that usually really helps and quite quickly, a lot of opportunities at the specialist agencies, that seems to be coming to the fore a lot more. So if you're a PPC only agency, you know, there's a lot of opportunities to become a dedicated to that. I think the more full service, it's probably a bit trickier sometimes at the moment than the specialists. So that's definitely something I think is changing. And then team, I think this goes back to the vision bit again, there's a lot of turnover of people at the moment. And that's not just people hiring, because there are lots hiring, but actually quite a lot of people leaving. And I think that's, I was doing some reading for a research report meeting last week and it was a Deloitte survey, I think it was last year, saying two out of three people in the marketing space, two out of three people feel that they don't get clear communication on where the agency's going. So for me, it goes back to that, What are we now? Where are we going in the roadmap? Articulate it, you know, quarterly stand ups, monthly emails, or or a quick check in everybody, this is how we're going. And this is your career path. Because there has been quite a lot of churn this year to SaaS businesses that are well funded. Other agencies, people going, well I've had enough of the last year, it's made me think about my career, I'm coming out of the agency game. So as much as this recruitment it's also quite a lot of people leaving, I think that's a challenge at the moment.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 43:19</strong><br>Wow. So that's really useful, what you've just shared actually, the reason for the churn or one of the contributing factors, is the fact that they don't feel communicated with. And it absolutely goes back to what you were saying before about being transparent.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 43:32</strong><br>I think it's been, you know, obviously, last year was hard, because I think most owners were like, you know, I got asked on this M&amp;A stuff I'm doing at the moment, can we give them the budgets we did for last year? And the actual results we did. Well to be honest, we were budgeting every three weeks, you know, it was a pain, what's the point, we're changing it every week, because the new scheme is coming in, whatever other clients search, some of the search clients have one of their users working with were coming off a cliff causing all their projects, you know, retainers, so all of that is, it's just created uncertainty. So it was hard, it is hard, isn't it for people to articulate but I think just quickly, the other thing that we've been doing, we've run this mastermind thing recently, we've had 16 agencies as a cohort, we've got five groups go in, we're just about sold out the next one. And what we tried to do for the pre work for that is get everybody to do a Pecha Kucha, if you know what a Pecha Kucha is Jenny?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 44:27</strong><br>Well explain for everybody listening.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 44:29</strong><br>So 20 slides, 20 seconds a slide, what is that, I'm the maths person! That's six and a half minutes or whatever. And they're supposed to articulate who they are, what they're trying to do themselves personally, but also their business, where they want the business to go. And we always think that's a critical thing for anybody on this mastermind and we've actually started to do with the clients now because they're weaving it into their creds decks and so on, as quite a quick visual, snappy thing. So a Pecha Kucha for me is if you haven't done one, look it up it's a whole, Japanese for chit chat I think isn't it? Look it up, probably do one because it makes you think about where you'll go in your business. And it's great for the creds. It's great for the creds deck.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 45:08</strong><br>Amazing. Any other final words of advice for an agency leader that we haven't talked about that you think, you know, it's critical to understand if you want to grow your agencies?<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 45:17</strong><br>Yeah, yeah, actually. So there's two things, I would say. It's one, most people don't have clarity on their pipeline. And I don't mean they don't know what leads a company. They don't have a tool or a process. They have some in the owners email inbox, they have some with the account managers inbox, they have some on the spreadsheet, then they have a SAAS tool that doesn't really tell them it just asks for them to tell you about the stages of how each opportunity is. Doesn't really tell you what's coming in the next couple of months with clarity. So I think a pipe line tool is fundamental. And we've built one over many years, we've evolved over agencies, anybody we work with, we show them now on like day one, or on the strategy day with them straight away or on the mastermind, because it's, to me, it's like the most fundamental tool that they should have in place first. And I think the other bit is, is the vision bit is, is again, we work quite a bit on that with, you asked me earlier on about what we do at the beginning, that to me is a lot of people don't really ever, they don't need to have a three or five year plan, but they need at least a year plan otherwise, what are you trying to go towards? So having that kind of step back and get away from the screens or the office when we're in offices and thinking about where they actually want to go, to a bit around the vision and putting a couple of numbers around that? What's the revenue going to be, what are the number of people? You can guarantee most people will have too many people on it, but then it's a starting point isn't it, is something to aim for.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 46:53</strong><br>You've been talking to me actually, Mark, I'm thinking I need to do that. So that was a real moment of Wow. So I'm really glad you shared that because I'm sure people listening will be thinking the same thing. So Mark, thank you, first of all, for sharing so much value. This has been really sort of eye opening for me. How can people reach you? And who would you like to be contacted by? And what's the best way because I know you've got, it's difficult because you've got so many clients on the go. So I know that your time is limited.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 47:27</strong><br>That is fine. So I love speaking to people and hearing their stories like this. So you can email me at mark@cact.us. Funny ending, and, or you can hit me up on LinkedIn. I tend not to accept connections on LinkedIn, I just if people message me, that's just my way of doing LinkedIn, I'm a bit weird. So whether that works or not, Jenny, I have no idea. But I just try to keep it to people I kind of know or have met, but you can send me a message and that's fine, a cover call or whatever. But I'm happy to have a call with anybody and and really, yep, agency owners are often, I've supported quite a lot of finance people in agencies over the years. I probably don't say that enough, actually. So if there's any finance people that think actually I'd be quite interested ito chew the fat over x, y and z if they're whatever, FM or FD or finance controller, whatever, then I'm happy to have a call as well to see if we can help in any way.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny 48:22</strong><br>Amazing. Thank you so much, Mark. We'll include those links in the show notes so people can find you straightaway. So thank you so much, Mark. Really appreciate your time.<br><br></div><div><strong>Mark 48:31</strong><br>All right, cheers, Jenny. Take care.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2021 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/kw56q1k8.mp3" length="54676291" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/c00822e0-af3a-11eb-9105-e3269c0bd3b4/c0082410-af3a-11eb-bd27-9b3f32df3a4a.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2733</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>This episode is for you if you're interested in the finance and operations side of the agency business. Mark Probert is an expert in helping agencies scale fast. In this episode, he shares with me some of the most useful financial benchmarks that high growth agencies use, such as what a healthy financial position looks like in terms of liquidity, typical revenue, target per staff member, average billable rates, and lots more. 

He also shares why agencies are hiring ahead of the business need currently, and also shares his thoughts on the most conducive agency business model for growth. I learned loads in this episode, and I really hope you do too. 

If you're an account manager with two to three years experience working in an agency, and you really want to 
- fast track your career
- be recognised for adding more value to your existing accounts, and growing the existing business

then the next Account Accelerator Programme starts on 2nd September 2021. This is a 12 week programme, where I help you create a client centric plan to add value to your existing accounts and increase the revenue from those existing accounts in 90 days. Places are limited on this course and I'm taking enquiries now. So if this sounds like you then drop me a line. It's jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or find me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>This episode is for you if you're interested in the finance and operations side of the agency business. Mark Probert is an expert in helping agencies scale fast. In this episode, he shares with me some of the most useful financial benchmarks that high growth agencies use, such as what a healthy financial position looks like in terms of liquidity, typical revenue, target per staff member, average billable rates, and lots more. 

He also shares why agencies are hiring ahead of the business need currently, and also shares his thoughts on the most conducive agency business model for growth. I learned loads in this episode, and I really hope you do too. 

If you're an account manager with two to three years experience working in an agency, and you really want to 
- fast track your career
- be recognised for adding more value to your existing accounts, and growing the existing business

then the next Account Accelerator Programme starts on 2nd September 2021. This is a 12 week programme, where I help you create a client centric plan to add value to your existing accounts and increase the revenue from those existing accounts in 90 days. Places are limited on this course and I'm taking enquiries now. So if this sounds like you then drop me a line. It's jenny@accountmanagementskills.com or find me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to account manage in an app development agency with Tim Moore</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/v8w0zjln</link>
      <itunes:title>How to account manage in an app development agency with Tim Moore</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>29</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">80xwyv81</guid>
      <description>This episode is for you if you're interested in the role of account management within an app development company. Tim Moore, account director at Sonin joined me. He shared his experience of working in an app development agency; what he believes makes a successful account manager in his agency, the typical types of projects he gets to work on, and he also talked through the process that they follow from initial concept all the way through to final app development. 

This is a fascinating episode, I really enjoyed my chat with Tim, and I hope you get some value from it.  Now if you've been listening to the podcast for a while, I'd love to ask you a huge favour. Would you please go and leave me a review on Apple podcasts? That means that the podcast gets seen by more people, and I'm able to help more people in the account management role in the creative agency.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:<br></strong>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>00:01</div><div>So I'm delighted to welcome <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsmoore/">Tim Moore</a> to the show. Tim works for a company called Sonin, and he's gonna talk to you in a minute about what Sonin does. But the reason I invited him onto the show today was, I want to do a series of interviews with account managers and directors who have specific expertise and specific areas of specialism within the creative field. So today, I've chosen to speak to Tim because he has a lot of digital understanding. He's been in the area for a long time, and I've asked him specifically to focus on app development. So Tim, welcome.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>00:36</div><div>Thanks. Thank you.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>00:37</div><div>So would you mind spending a few minutes just talking about you, Tim, your experience? How long you've been at Sonin and what you do at Sonin and also what Sonin actually does?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>00:46</div><div>Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So my experience was actually sales. I kind of, I left University went into sales roles, various different things, started my own company. I ran a company in something completely different, in clothing, actually, yes, in ski and snowboard wear. And I sold that about 11 years ago, 10 years ago. And I came on board because I knew with Simon, because I knew the founder and he knew my background in sales. And so about nine years, I've been with Sonin for nine years now. And I came on board initially for a short period of time to do a bit of sales. I thought six months and set a few things up, for a startup. And then nine years later, I'm still here. Apparantly I'm not allowed to leave now!</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>01:39</div><div>I can imagine, I didn't even know that about your background, that's really fascinating. So in terms of the evolution of what you've seen over the years with Sonin, in those nine years, what did the company start doing? And what does it look like now?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>01:52</div><div>Yeah, it's interesting, actually, because we started, we were born out of a web consultancy, so websites. My MD, Paul, he saw an opportunity in apps. This was pre iPhone, though so the first apps we built were in a Nokia phone, and it was a, first app we built was a Nokia dating app that required Bluetooth, which is a bloody awful idea. You have to be within about a yard of someone and then you got a notification on your Nokia phone. So someone within a yard lights, you know, because they'd be standing next to you. So the iPhone came along and saved us as a business really, and an app development was a good path. But in the early days, we were in all honesty, we were unsure what we were, there was an argument say we were a digital marketing company and a website developer. And over the years, we've just focused and focused, niche, niche, niched. And now we can categorically say for the last few years, we are an app development agency. That's what we do.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>02:47</div><div>Love it, very clear, very, very specific. And have you helped, before I dive into the rest of questions, have you found that that niche positioning has actually accelerated the business? Has it helped? And if so, how has it helped?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>03:00</div><div>Yeah, yeah, dramatically helped. And it was something that I was completely wrong about. Because we do also build big web based systems, we do quite often the back end of an app. An apps very thin client, doesn't do a lot. And there's some really powerful stuff going on, on some servers somewhere. And we also get really heavily involved in ITand AR and VR and machine learning, all these exciting things. But in terms of how we present ourselves, we're an app development agency and that's a starting point for our clients. And I say I was wrong, I say to them we can't be that focused with our messaging, people won't contact us, that was absolutely wrong. The more we refined our message and who we were, the easier it became to to market us.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>03:50</div><div>Amazing. Well done. Okay, so I'm gonna probably pick up on the conversation around app development, beacause I'm eager to pick your brains on that. But first of all, let me ask you the question, what do you think makes a great account manager particularly in an in an agency like yours?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>04:05</div><div>Yeah. For us, I know, you obviously wanted to talk to me specifically about app development? I can't help thinking it's kind of universal. It's understanding business. It's understanding the client, their business, what they're trying to do. All we're trying to do is find value in what we do. Gone are the days, early days, people could call us because they needed an app. I remember a big pharma company, you'll know well probably, called and said, 'We need an app'. We said, 'Great, what do you want it to do?' And they'd say, 'It doesn't matter! We need an app!'&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>04:34</div><div>Classic.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>04:35</div><div>But those days are long gone, and everyone wants a return and we want to provide it. So that's what keeps our clients coming back. And so the key for account management is understanding the business, their roadmap, their objectives, what they want, what they want to see by the end of the year, what we're gonna see by the end of a project, understanding the business, understanding value. Those things are integral. I can't imagine that's much different from many other industries as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>04:57</div><div>I agree totally with what you said there Tim. I absolutely agree. It's all about having that business acumen, that commercial understanding. And quite frankly, it doesn't matter what you're actually delivering at the end, as long as the problem that you're solving is the right problem. So in order to do that, you have to have an understanding of the business, so you're talking my language completely. So like, to your point about, you know, they used to come to us and say, 'I want an app, I don't quite know why, just do it'. What kinds of problems to clients come to you with now? Like, how do you, what did they see in your offer? What's the conversation that's had at that stage?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>05:35</div><div>Yeah, I'd say why people come to us is quite varied. But the problems they have, they're trying to solve, are universal. I read something a while ago, there's only nine unique business problems, and I can't list them but it was interesting to me. Yeah, I can't remember who it was, but I remember thinking at the time, that's true, you know, we get a lot of people come in. The type of products we build fall into two categories are either enterprise, back end, staff focused apps. So for big, big company, and you've got some logistics problems, or operational problems, or whatever it may be, and you're looking for technology, you're looking to technology solve that. Or they are customer facing ones, they're marketing exercise to a point, they're trying to increase sales or increase revenue. So we internally we say, make money or save money, there's the two categories that people are looking to do. And so they'll come to us because, we work with every type of industry, and they come to us, because they can't communicate well enough. Most recently, a good example, everybody needs a way to communicate that isn't in person. So they need to build in video chat functions into products or live chat, text chat things.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>06:56</div><div>Okay, amazing. And I love the way you've described that actually, this internal focused- saving you money, for external customer focus -making you money. I love that. That's just so clear. So going back to the account manager role. So the key thing that an account manager has to have is an understanding of the client's business, the commercial acumen. And then what value do you think the account management role can have within the agency?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>07:21</div><div>Within the agency, well I see it very much is a bridge between the two. I did a talk a while ago on what I called the Bow Tie method, essentially, historically, account manager is sat with account manager. So you've got an agency behind you one side, all these people working away, and you've got a client all and you just communicate&nbsp; through one point. And I said, I like to flip it on its head and open lines of communication across the board and we do. Project managers talk to project managers. In our case, developers talking to client side development teams as well. More communication, the better. The value I see the account management bringing is an understanding, is essentially a representative on both sides with the client it's a representative of the agency and with the agency, it's representative of the client. So if I'm doing my job well, I understand the business objectives, what the client wants to achieve, where the return is going to be. And I also understand the technology to a point. I'm not technical, haven't been, you know, a bit of a crash course nine years ago when I joined, but I understand what technology can do and how you can leverage it. And so somewhere in the middle of those two things, and being the conduit for both.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>08:33</div><div>You know, that's a great point and I'd love to kind of pick your brain on this one. Because some agencies try to make a decision of whether they should have account management or not. And I know that depending on who you talk to, some people say, well, the account manager, they don't have the technical understanding so how could they possibly hold a conversation with the clients? So I'd love to get your view on that. Because you said, I've got enough technical understanding, I did a crash course. So that's obviously clearly important to an account manager in your industry, particularly. But talk to me about that kind of scenario. What are your thoughts on that?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>09:08</div><div>Yeah, I mean, my clients aren't technical generally. And they want real world solutions they want it described in a real world way, I've got this problem, how are we going to solve it? And I can, I just had a call just now with a new client and they were saying, here's the problem we want to solve, we want to up communication and this is a problem. And the fact that I understand the technology say, 'Okay, well, we could build a function that does this', because I understand the capability and what we can achieve, I couldn't go and build it for them. And I couldn't advise our developers, and we've got blooming great devs that I can put in contact with their development team. That's why I say I like to open the lines of communication. So everyone's talking, they're not trying to, I'm not passing on information and then passing it back and things get lost in the process. Their lead Dev, our lead Dev will have a long chat, and will cover any security questions, any technology, stack questions, any of that that I don't fully understand that will happen anyway. But because I understand what we can do and understand the client, then that's for us.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>10:17</div><div>That's a great understanding, you've just explained it so well. I mean, so your skills are in the communication skills. And for someone perhaps thinking about getting into an app development company, in the account management role, it's actually quite reassuring to think, well yeah, ofcourse, the people that you initially talk to, at the client side, don't have that deep level of expertise, or experience in technical understanding. But as the project progresses, you can then open up the lines of communication, as you say, introducing your Dev to their kind of technical person, etc.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>10:52</div><div>Yeah, one of the big things I think I learned early on, because I came into the role and a big worry was I don't know enough about technology and I said I went on a crash course, I just read for weeks and weeks before I started the role. I actually found an old notebook, which was reasonably embarrassing, because the type of things I was writing down with, were a little bit up in the air.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>11:11</div><div>Could you share something?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>11:14</div><div>It was just wrong. In all honesty, it was just stuff I'd read and got backwards. We've got a great team here. That helped me early on. And in fact, I haven't had to use a lot of it. And I think, now that you asked about values, I think a real good value in an account manager, is understanding people and understanding how to pitch things. I've got clients that will actively avoid technology discussions. It upsets them, in all honesty, and they don't want to know, they just want to know solution based real world results. And I've got some, we just had a new client, join a startup who has got a background in development. And he's fascinated in it and really wants to know, and we're doing some clever stuff with the new serverless technology and he's really interested in. Great, but I'm not the man, so I set up a call with our lead Dev and him, and they're happy that we've got it covered. You know, I don't need to know it. I'm sure you say people coming in... I don't see it as a barrier. It certainly hasn't been for me.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>12:22</div><div>So it's in your people understanding as well, that your ability to communicate well, I mean, you're a fantastic communicator, but also to diagnose what's needed. You know, let me do an assessment, let me gauge what kind of person we're dealing with. And then you make it happen. So, again, fantastic skills for an account manager.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>12:41</div><div>Yeah, I hope so. That's what I aim to do yeah, facilitate. That's largely it.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>12:46</div><div>So when you do start, talk us through. What happens at the beginning, like, where do you even start when you are going into an app project?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>13:00</div><div>Yeah, it's a huge amount of questions in all honesty, learning. So our process that we have developed over years, and things have changed quite dramatically, you know, in the way you build technology now, when we started 9, 10 years ago, we were still running projects, from a project management point of view, in a Waterfall method, a lot of research upfront, a lot of documentation, six, nine month builds where the client wouldn't see anything until the end, all this stuff. And now, of course, we're fully agile and it's all about collaborative process and understanding. And so we start all of our our projects with a workshop that although is run from our head of project management, our head of design, and it's about, but it's focused on two things. It's understanding business, understanding users, there are two parts to it. And for me, as an account manager it is fantastically useful, because I sit in a room, we invite stakeholders, anyone that wants a say in the product, and that normally is the group of directors, and they sit for a day and they tell us what the business is trying to achieve, how they're trying to get there. And then we do some research, we do some focus groups so we understand the users whether that's internal or external, because you face the same challenges. If it's staff and you deliver a product they don't want to use, they'll find a way around it, they go back to WhatsApp or whatever it is, the process has to be the same. So when we start a project, it's all about, the more understanding we can get the better. A little while ago, we've done a lot of work over the years in understanding where our value is, what our what our company values are, and we came to the conclusion that we want to build the right product. That's our focus. And that sounds a little bit obvious maybe but there are a lot of agencies that will aim to build the most amazing thing you can imagine or the quickest thing or the cheapest thing, we want to do the right thing. So the right thing for the business and the right thing for the users. And the only way you're going to start that process is questions and understanding. The more we understand the better, we can pitch your idea. And the better it is because the next part is then pitching a solution. And if we understand the user completely, that solution is going to end up at the right product, or certainly we hope.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>15:26</div><div>Great, so you start with the workshop, then you do some, user kind of investigation. And then you pitch the kind of, the idea, the initial idea, and presumably to your point about it's an agile process, what does that first step, that first stage look like?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>15:44</div><div>So the workshop results in the prioritisation of features into a product, into an app. Here are the features that are going to get you the most value and we look to a release point as early as possible. So the business can start getting value back in all honesty. There might be a nine month development road plan but within the first four sprint's there is a deliverable that you could put out and they could start getting value from it and why not? So after the workshop, and we deliver that prioritise sprint plan, commission it, the project managers start work with their project managers, some wireframing, some design bits and pieces before then into sprints. And we don't even anymore design the whole product from start to end, we design the things that are going to affect the first few sprints because businesses change, that's why the agile and working that way is so good, is that if in three months time the business has different requirements, something&nbsp; changes in the market, we've seen a few changes over the last couple of years, something changes, we can react immediately. The next sprint, which is in 10 days time, can now be this feature that's more important. And the first part of that sprint is a wireframing session and some design work. So yeah.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>17:04</div><div>Love it, love it. This is really educational for me actually just to understand what your thinking is. Can you give me an example of what might change for the client in terms of, you know, hang on a sec, we've made a change or the business needs something else? What's an example of something that would change?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>17:22</div><div>Yeah, a good example is, a client that I'm working with at the moment, was working for a number of years, and they do repossession of cars, which doesn't sound very romantic. But it's an interesting business they have. And over the last year, the FCA, for example, came out said we can't repossess cars this year. It's COVID, people aren't earning, you can't now repossess cars. So the roadmap that we had, was very much&nbsp; there, they have a lot of process and protocol, it has to be quite, they don't want to come to somebody house and steal their car away, it's a very soft approach that they take. And they want their staff who repossess those cars to do it in a certain way. So the app that we're building for them was about walking them through that process and a kind of smooth transition. Most of them are not contentious anyway. You've come to an end of an agreement with the bank, they're employed by the bank, and someone's coming to pick up the car that you don't want anymore. So it's fine. But there's a really good example of it. Well, this is happening. But we know, we're up for a tender for a couple of new banks that want to use us. So could we add these features in and spend the next few months building these features that will help us win those tenders you see. Now if we'd been on a six, nine month plan and it had all been planned, we said, well, we can't really we were in build, we've designed the whole thing we know what we're doing and where we are going. Tough. They came to us, we can't repossess cars, can you pivot? Yeah. Within five days, we're now working on the thing that they need.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>19:02</div><div>Amazing What a great example as well. Well done for bringing that out. That was&nbsp; fantastic. Do the clients ask you for measurement? Like, is it clear from the beginning of developing an app typically, that you have measures of success or measurable outcomes? Can you predict that far or is it really difficult?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>19:23</div><div>It's absolutely our aim, as I say about delivering value and delivering the right product is what we aim to do. So we build in what we call as a packaged product success. So from those early days, those workshops, we're identifying a user journey. And we're saying here are the pain points in your current user journey and here how we're going to improve them. And we kind of come up with a hypothesis. This is what we think is going to improve, more people are going to be able to move from point A to point B, that's going to reduce this cost. And that could be for a company recently that do industrial floor paints, for example, which doesn't sound exciting, but it was really interesting product, it was about end customers getting quotes that they wanted and getting the support, they wanted to get to those quotes. Currently, it's a manual, pick up the phone, and they wanted to do it through an app. So that's, you know, we can really identify, currently you produce this many quotes, this many sign offs, this many things. With the app, we can monitor the same thing, how many can we get through. And we get so much more analytics, because in an app, your whole journey can be reviewed. How many times you've logged in, how many times you come back, how many times you press a certain button, all of those metrics are there to be gathered. So we do and then we produce a report monthly after the after the products go live to try and prove our hypothesis, we thought we're gonna save you X amount. A good example is a student housing company. They came to us for something slightly different. If you thought about adding rent payments into the app and I said, I'm not sure people are going to use an app to pay their rent. We did some user research and students said, 'Yeah, be happy to, it'd be be easier'. And I think that the first weekend that it went out there was over six figures went through the app in the first weekend of rent payments being available on an app, because there's was an easy solution for them. So we aim to measurable.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>21:15</div><div>Amazing, can I ask a really silly question, and it's just totally my lack of understanding, so if a company has already got a website, say that student housing, they're already taking the payments on the website? Is it just the natural evolution that they would, you know, want the app as well? I mean, are there companies that just say that they want it web based? Or is it most companies nowadays, always have an app? If they've got any kind of processing?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>21:41</div><div>It's not silly, it's a good question actually because sometimes the solution is web based. And we are open to that solution. And our aim to build the right product might mean no product at all. And we're kind of okay with that because if we, in all honesty, our focus has always been about long term relationships. We've still got some clients we had from when I started nine years ago. That's our focus. And if I build you something that isn't going to give you a return, you're not going to turn into a long term relationship, you're going to go. So apps are really good at task orientated things, get in, get out, do a thing, check your bank balance, book a ticket - really good, because they focus, and they can also hold a lot of data about you. So they know where you are in the world, they know who you are, because you're probably still logged in, all of those things are really handy. What they're not so good at is things like browsing. So if you sell shoes, for example, you're unlikely to go back to an app to browse to buy new shoes, you'll probably go to Google and you'll start a bit of a search, and you'll go on to someone's website. So it very much depends on what you're trying to achieve, again, bit of a broken record, where the value is. And yes, sometimes it's not.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>22:55</div><div>Interesting. Okay, so it wasn't such a silly question, after all. So that's, that's really interesting. So again, it comes back to what you said at the beginning about understanding the client's business, wanting to make sure that the solution is spot on for them. So that all makes sense. I had another question. It's just gone out of my mind. Are you finding, I mean, you must have seen such an explosion in the number of apps we've seen in the last nine years? Are you finding it that more and more, it becomes more difficult for a client to actually get their users to use an app? Because I'm just thinking about my own experience of my iPhone? And how many apps I've got and I often find myself deleting the ones I haven't used for ages. So I have my kind of go tos, like, I don't know, the banking app or Amazon app, but it gets to a point depending on what the size of your phone's like, that you're trying to just, you know, filter them out? Have you found that you have to work harder nowadays to get an app to be actually used?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>23:59</div><div>Not harder to be used, harder to be seen. When we started, you could put an app in the app store and it would get downloaded, guaranteed, now it gets lost. So harder for that. We have more data now to know that abandonment rates are quite high. And if you do get deleted, you're very unlikely to get re installed. People won't download again and try again. So you know something we preach a fair bit when we're talking to clients that the initial experience has to be a good one. If it's not the right thing people will delete and they won't come back so that's true. And and again, that's why half of our workshop's dedicated to that user, is there value for them? If there isn't, you probably shouldn't spend your money on building it because they'll delete it and it will never come back</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>24:43</div><div>A point about the users actually because you said that you do some user testing. And then once you have like, not the prototype but the the kind of phase one version with the minimal features, do you always have some kind of beta testing stage where you'll choose a group to try it out or not?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>25:02</div><div>Yeah, yeah, that's absolutely the aim, it largely depends on our clients and what they want to do. The focus is always to try and test it. And we will take, ideally, and often the case, if we've done a focus group on the initial features and what we're trying to build, once it's built, we take it back to the focus group and check off that it is what they want, and they are going to use it. Some projects, we've been lucky enough to do some really quite large scale beta testing. We built an app for a insurance company, for a big car insurance company that was around, when you've had an accident, you open the app, and it walks you through the process of what you now need to do. And so it kind of hold's your hand at what is the most stressful time, a really interesting discovery session for us because, we spoke to people, it is one of the most stressful times, you've just crashed your car. How do you want to be presented with information? And that was fantastic, because we actually got to set up some fake car crashes with the insurance company. So there's a scene and you put someone in the car essentially, and said, right, you've just had this accident, here's your phone, the app to the insurance company on the phone, go, what do you do next? And we got to run a full scale test for a couple of days and get the results out of that and see how they used it. That was a particularly good one.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>26:24</div><div>That must be quite exciting. So you get involved in all different types of industries and scenarios.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>26:30</div><div>Yeah.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>26:30</div><div>Amazing. And in your role as account director, how much of it do you get involved in? You know, you said at the beginning, you're very much there at the front end, you're there at the workshop with the project manager and the head of design I think you said, but how does the role work?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>26:51</div><div>I mean, I'm there throughout. I don't know whether I'm slightly different because when I came on board with Sonin there was only a few of us, and so I've kind of moved through different roles within the company, always with the sales and looking after our accounts as the main part of it but putting in a project management function, and then employing people that could actually do project management, which is not me. So I'm potentially involved more than another account manager would be in certain things but because we work in an agile way, because we're delivering, we aim to deliver something every 10 days, whether it's some screenshots or a video walkthrough, whatever it may be, so our clients consistently see that we're building what they want. And so I, as an account manager, I get to see that every 10 days, so from the workshop, post live with all of that success stuff I talked about, about how we monitor performance, it's kind of the whole thing, really.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>27:53</div><div>Amazing. Okay, and to that point about continuing to catch up with clients, do you have any kind of quarterly business reviews or ongoing strategy sessions? Like, how does that work?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>28:05</div><div>Yeah, absolutely. Contact is key. The more contact I have with clients the more I understand them. People are, in general, quite polite. And if they're not sure about something, they've seen something they don't quite like they probably won't say anything. And if they see it again, again they probably won't. And then by the third time, they're really angry, and they're going to, you know, burn the house down. So if I've spoken to them within that period of time, then they'll probably say 'Oh that thing' and we get to solve the solution together and it doesn't escalate. So I do two things, I try and stay in contact as much as possible, and then put in some, essentially quarterly business review. Some clients, it's more like a monthly and then it's an update on more high level things. Again, back to business objectives. In the meantime, I try to take away their business objectives, look at the market, look at competitors, see what they're doing, and provide some some value back to them. So that on those reviews, we're kind of pointing to where they should go. That's the aim.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>29:19</div><div>Some great value bombs there that you've just shared for other account managers in terms of Yeah, because you're right, I mean, the more frequent you have those touch points, the more opportunity the client has to share any grievances or feed back to you. And then again, those ongoing forums that you have with those clients enable you to continue shining in their eyes, you know, because you are at the cutting edge of what's changing, and all of that insight that you can provide not only about your industry, but also the client's industry and other competitors, etc. So fantastic tips for account managers that might be listening thinking how do I you know, keep giving ongoing value, and what for you Tim, makes a really successful client, agency relationship?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>30:05</div><div>I might repeat myself again really here, it's the understanding piece. I think it was the marketing director of Kellogg's and it was, he was speaking at an event, and you may have seen it actually, but it was about new business. And someone said, as a salesperson, 'How do I get to you, you're the marketing director of Kellogg's, I want to sell to you. How do I get to you?' and he said, 'Know more about my industry than I do. Know about my business as much as I do and have a fresh idea, have an add'. And that really stuck. And I kind of think the same for our clients is, know about their industry, know about their business and come with new ideas they haven't thought of that will help them. And if I keep doing that, they'll probably keep working with us.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>30:55</div><div>Love that and that guy that asked that question in the audience, he probably felt crushed at that moment, didn't he? Because actually, the question was wrong. You know, how can I sell to you? How can I get to you? But actually, it's more about what value can I bring to you?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>31:09</div><div>Yeah, it was a really good lesson for me, because I think occasionally you get lazy and you think I could, you know, we've just done some interesting work in AR, I could go and pitch an AR app design. So I could call them up they'd want to do something in AR. Do I understand, have I spent the time, have I put the work in? Do I know their business? Do I know what they're trying to do this year? Because you can burn relationships an awful lot quicker than you can make them.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>31:33</div><div>Absolutely 100% agree, because people buy for their reasons, not yours. You know, if you're going in with your story, your your creds deck your ideas, but actually you haven't diagnosed first, then you absolutely run that risk I think, I totally agree with you. So what advice would you give Tim, if someone's listening to this and thinking, I love the sound of what Tim's working on? How would I, what advice would you give to someone trying to get into the app development space, from an account management point of view?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>32:05</div><div>For a company like ours that doesn't specialise in an industry, some do, most I don't think, I would say read as much as you can, understand business, how businesses work, what their objectives are. A CEO will release a statement at the beginning of the year, and tell everyone what they're trying to do quite often, you can find the information out and the more you can understand business problems and how people are solving them, the better place you are to help solve them in a business like ours. Definitely read about technology, you have to love technology, I do. I love it. I love new technology, I love reading about new technology. Like I said, I'm not technical, I can't do the work but I can see an opportunity in something. You know, over the years, a lot of things have been released, the Apple Watch came out and instantly you can see 10 things you could deliver for a client to help them, because you sit there and watch the cheesy Apple developer conference, reading and learning, reading about businesses, learning about technology, that's the place I'd start.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>33:06</div><div>Brilliant. So do you typically attract the people that are kind of those early adopters to new technology? Can you say that most people that work there are of that kind of mindset?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>33:17</div><div>Yeah, we employ for it. We employ, we want to see some people, some passion, you know, from our development team. If they've built their own thing somewhere, and they've got passion for it. Love it. And we have days throughout the year where we close the agency every day and do a Sonin Create where we give them a brief and they can go and build what they like. And the whole team's involved, not just the Devs. So where if you thought, I'd be really interesting if you could do something with Bluetooth that, well we have, where when you get in the lift the coffee machine starts because they know who you are, because the app on your phone and the Bluetooth device, so a passion for technologies is quite key.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>34:04</div><div>Amazing. Do you have anything else like that? That sounds quite space age to me right now. But what other things do you have typically in your agency that kind of highlights how much you love the technology?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>34:17</div><div>Well, the guys are always building their own products and bringing them in. So you know when when machine learning, artificial intelligence kind of started cropping up in a more achievable manner so you didn't have to write your own AI. You could use IBM released Watson, which was their kind of off the shelf option. We've got a client that has the print design, so they're a company that sell websites essentially to print designers so everything you buy is probably done by a design company that they then sell to the company that print it on that bit of fabric, another strange client. And they list 10s of 1000s of images weekly and people sit there and they press buttons. So you know, that is a floral print and it's a this type of print. And the guy said, you know, we could do something with AI and we gave them a few days leeway. And they used IBM Watson and you sent it a bunch of images, and it sent you back those images tagged to say that is a floral print, because the machine learnt what it what we fed it, all the data we had, and it learned. And then we get to go back to clients who've haven't done a thing, potentially save you hours and hours and hours.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>35:30</div><div>Wow, wow, wow, this is very compelling stuff, isn't it? I mean, would you say that for most businesses, if they said to you, you know, Tim, help us kind of save money or make money, there would be some technological solution that would enable them to do that.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>35:46</div><div>Yeah, yeah. I believe so. Yeah. I mean, sometimes, you know, we're prepared that it might not be an app, which is largely what we do, like I said, and potentially something they could do in house you know, and we're not averse to that either if they could develop whatever they have further. But, I said, there's some core business problems, I think, if you have them, then I think, I believe you can fix them with technology.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>36:14</div><div>Great point. And what other trends have you seen in the app space?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>36:19</div><div>Trends in the app space? Well, I say most recently has been all about reducing human&nbsp; contact. So face to face interactions phasing out, with a video call now not in person and that's been everything. That's staff, people not in offices. So just in the last year, there's been, everything we do has had a tinge of that, somewhere where people aren't meeting, so now we have to, so that's big. The other areas that we work in, that've come up over the last nine years that I've been doing it, is things like FinTech. So open banking has become a thing, you can now get access to your account data. So you can do some really cool things with that. We're working in prop tech space as well. A lot of&nbsp; historical kind of industry is now looking to technology, looking to apps to help them because you got a whole host of residents in a property and you want to manage that, then an app where you open lines of communication, where you get to send images and text and communicate better is massively advantageous nesting that. So it's in the digitalization of those historical kind of businesses, we're seeing a lot of the moment Everyone thinks that every client I speak to says, 'We're so far behind'. But every industry is really, there's a couple that are leading the way and the rest aren't.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>37:50</div><div>Amazing. Yeah, I can imagine because they probably think, oh, we should have done this years ago or something. But you know, and actually, right, the pandemic has just accelerated everything, isn't it? I mean, it would you say that you haven't slowed down during this time, because out of most agencies, your services, particularly are...</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>38:10</div><div>Last year, in all honesty, when everyone kind of left their offices we did, and things slowed down. And then towards the end of last year, and certainly since vaccination things, and this year, it's gone bananas, it really has. Everybody coming back realising that maybe they've lost the best part of the year. And as a business, they still need to achieve the same targets as they ever had. So yeah, all of our clients have been wanting to do more and our new clients coming in at a faster rate than we've seen before. And to try and use technology to solve some of the problems.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>38:43</div><div>I can believe that actually, in what you do. So this has been amazing, Tim, you've shared so many tips and values. So have you got any final words of wisdom for someone who's in the account management role? And they are, thinking about working in the area of app development, any kind of thing that we haven't covered that you think might be useful for them to know?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>39:04</div><div>I don't think anything I haven't covered. I think, learning technology and learning the business. I think reading people is important. And I think observing people and understanding the different types of people is equally important. And I find technology is an odd one. It's not something, you said that, it might be a silly question and you were kind of nervous to ask, and that is absolutely what I see all day. People are a bit scared and they don't want to seem silly, and they think they should probably know it although they shouldn't. So understanding people and trying to second guess the questions they want to ask that they're not asking, seems quite important. People work with us on commission things if they trust us, of course and if they understand what we're trying to achieve and if you can understand this objective, understand the technology, pitch the best thing in the world if people don't quite understand it, and don't really trust it, and they're probably not going to sign off on it. So identifying what type of person you're talking to, where your commonalities are, and how to present something to them is, I think it's probably the third part of what I try and do. I'm certainly not an expert at it but I try and teach things at the level of someone I'm talking to.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>40:26</div><div>Do you know what, I'm so glad you finished off on that point because you're so right. And I'm sure like me, you know, there's that nervousness for looking silly and not being up to date enough. And what you just said was so funny. I see this all the time. So we're not different. So for you to be in that position of first of all, spotting something and then tailoring your approach and making people feel really comfortable because I think that's what you're talking about really isn't it, making people feel safe and understood. And absolutely, yeah, love it. Thank you so much, Tim. This has been brilliant. How people get hold of you if they're interested in learning more about Sonin and what you do?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>41:05</div><div>Yeah. Our website is <a href="https://www.sonin.agency">sonin.agency</a>. That's us. Jump on there. And everything's on there, all our contact details are there. And you can see some of the work we've done as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>41:16</div><div>Fantastic. All right. Thanks so much again, this has been absolutely brilliant. So maybe we can do a part two at some point.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Tim&nbsp; </strong>41:23</div><div>I'd love to. I really enjoyed that. Thank you.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Mon, 03 May 2021 12:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/2wklzl78.mp3" length="44132749" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/5b99ec50-a9a6-11eb-a527-19e861966d2e/5b99ed70-a9a6-11eb-a9f1-c7e57a914d8a.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2206</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>This episode is for you if you're interested in the role of account management within an app development company. Tim Moore, account director at Sonin joined me. He shared his experience of working in an app development agency; what he believes makes a successful account manager in his agency, the typical types of projects he gets to work on, and he also talked through the process that they follow from initial concept all the way through to final app development. 

This is a fascinating episode, I really enjoyed my chat with Tim, and I hope you get some value from it.  Now if you've been listening to the podcast for a while, I'd love to ask you a huge favour. Would you please go and leave me a review on Apple podcasts? That means that the podcast gets seen by more people, and I'm able to help more people in the account management role in the creative agency.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>This episode is for you if you're interested in the role of account management within an app development company. Tim Moore, account director at Sonin joined me. He shared his experience of working in an app development agency; what he believes makes a successful account manager in his agency, the typical types of projects he gets to work on, and he also talked through the process that they follow from initial concept all the way through to final app development. 

This is a fascinating episode, I really enjoyed my chat with Tim, and I hope you get some value from it.  Now if you've been listening to the podcast for a while, I'd love to ask you a huge favour. Would you please go and leave me a review on Apple podcasts? That means that the podcast gets seen by more people, and I'm able to help more people in the account management role in the creative agency.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>App development, account management, digital agency</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to manage others for agency account managers, with Matt Plant</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/5nzp44kn</link>
      <itunes:title>How to manage others for agency account managers, with Matt Plant</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>28</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">80zr66x0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 28. This episode's for you if you're interested in managing other people. Maybe you're in an account manager role now and you're thinking that the next step up for you is going to be an account director role, where you're going to be responsible for a team. And you're wondering what skills you need and how you should prepare yourself for the role. So I persuaded an expert to come and talk to us. We talked all about

how to manage other people,  and what skills you need to do the job effectively.
the biggest changes people have to make when transitioning to managing others, and some of the biggest mistakes people make when managing others for the first time.
the top three things people should consider when wanting to make that move, and some examples of the most successful people in manage managerial roles.

Lots of value here and lots of tips and takeaways for you if you are thinking about this role. You may also notice that I'm quite familiar with the guest. This is because it's my brother, Matt Plant. He's been in training for over 20 years, working with with training companies like Hemsley Fraser, Virgin Atlantic, and he was in the training department for Energy Development Oman in the Middle East. He's worked with clients such as Rolls-Royce, Cancer Research, the Bank of England, and many, many other organisations, helping them with training and general learning interventions for lots of different topics. So he's probably the most expert person that I know. And whilst I do have many years managing others, I was never officially trained. So I hope you come away with some ideas for yourself when it comes to managing other people.

And please do get in contact with Matt, to find out more details about his course that's coming up for managing others for new managers. </description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:<br></strong><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>00:04<br><br></div><div>So today, I'm delighted to have my brother Matt, to talk about managing others for the first time. And the reason I've invited him on to talk to me about this subject is twofold really. One, because agency account managers have been asking me about this for a long time. So I'm teaching them how to grow an account. But there's this other skill that they need, which is, as as they get more senior in the agency, they need to be able to manage people well. And they often question whether they're doing the right things. So it's a skill that I think's missing. I'm not the expert in this area. But my brother Matt is and he's been training people for 20 years. And the second reason is, that I'm going to feel more relaxed asking him questions because I, whilst I've been managing people for years, I've never actually had formal training. So I think during this session, it might turn into a bit of a therapy session of the things that I should have done better, being a people manager. So Matt, can we start off just talking a bit about you briefly, your experience and how you help new managers?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>01:12<br><br></div><div>Yeah, thank you. Nice to be here. Hopefully, it doesn't get into a therapy session, people are going to switch off. But yeah, so I've been in manager or leadership trainer for around about 20 years now. So what I do is offer a lot of different courses, mainly around management and leadership. But some of them kind of drift into interpersonal skills as well. And so what I do is I coach some new managers in their kind of transition to being a manager. And also, when we had face to face training, I did a lot of face-to-face training with new managers and new leaders and some senior leaders as well. Now it's more online so I'm in online virtual world now. So I've worked in a lot of different companies as well.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>02:03<br><br></div><div>Okay, brilliant. So let's start off because I really would love this episode, to be lots of takeaways for people who are listening to this thinking they're either in managing position, or they're thinking about transitioning. So what are some of the biggest changes that people have to make when they transition into a position where they have to manage other people?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>02:24<br><br></div><div>Yeah, I think sometimes, people think they have to have a personality change. I have to change my personality, because now I've got this role. But I think it's the opposite is true. It's being yourself, because if other people see that you've changed, you've got that kind of phrase where people 'You've changed', and you get that kind of stigma attached to you. So you don't need to change. But I think one of the things that I found with a lot of questions I have in courses, is now that they are now managing their friends, how does that work? And I always think it's good to have some kind of informal chat with people. And just to say, how have you found this change now, and try to address the elephant in the room really, because sometimes, we don't. And when it comes to giving feedback later on down the line, it can be awkward. So if you've already addressed it and said, 'Look, there's going to be times when I'm going to give you feedback, and you've got to give me feedback, I don't want it to be awkward. So let's, when it comes to it, hopefully that helps'. But I think changing your personality or feeling that you should, is the wrong way to go with it.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>03:47<br><br></div><div>That's really good advice, because I'm just thinking of the experiences I've had in the past where you're in a team, and then one of you gets promoted above the team. And there might be resentment, mightn’t there, from the team members thinking, 'Well, I wanted to get promoted'. So how do you even begin to tackle that one?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>04:10<br><br></div><div>Yeah, exactly. I do think if you're open and you're supportive to those people, maybe they went for the job as well. So if you're supportive of them, and you're open to talking with them, not having a pen and paper in front of you recording what they're saying, it's just an off the cuff, maybe in a coffee shop, just to have a catch up, one to one and see how they're getting on. And hopefully, that will help build rebuild the relationship.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>04:39<br><br></div><div>Do you know what, that is such good advice. And I remember kind of giving other people similar advice, just go and have a coffee, sit down and just have an informal chat about it. And then that kind of relaxes everybody doesn't it? You know, just having that one on one, 'How are you feeling about this' and 'How are we going to manage this moving forward?' maybe, I don't know. But that's great advice.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>05:00<br><br></div><div>Yeah, just make sure that the channels of communications are open. I think that's the first thing. I was just gonna mention, it can be quite tricky for people who, you've just been working on your own, and you're very task focused or project focused. But now you have this responsibility of dealing with a team and dealing with all the different, maybe issues and problems with each person, can be quite overwhelming. So it's just to be aware that there's going to be some time when you're going to have to be spending more time with people, it's getting that balance of, okay, where do I spend my time? Is it on task? Or is it on people? And this should be a balance there. And I think when you first become a manager, that's difficult.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>05:48<br><br></div><div>That's such a good point. Did you have people asking you the question like, what is the right balance are people that specific, they want to know what percentage of their day should be task? And what...?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>05:58<br><br></div><div>Yeah, I do. And that's a tricky one to answer. Someone on my last course, said, how much time do I need to spend all this management stuff? And that's really difficult to answer because it depends on how many people you have in the team. And it also depends what industry you're working in as well. Yeah, that's a tricky one to answer.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>06:22<br><br></div><div>What do you see are the biggest mistakes that people make when they're transitioning to managing other people for the first time?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>06:31<br><br></div><div>I think one thing is, a new manager wants to do a good job, and they want to hit the targets, they want to get to the objectives. And what I see from people is that they take on too much. And they become overwhelmed. And one of the reasons I feel that's behind that is that they want to be able to answer questions, they want to be able to deal with situations and problems. And what that can lead to is a habit that the team come to them for the answers to everything. So if you're getting that as a habit, if you're getting people coming to you all the time, you will be overwhelmed. And people expect that from you. So you almost become the guru. Unbeknown to you.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>07:20<br><br></div><div>I am going to confess something here. Because I think I fell into that trap myself, right. And it wasn't until I was being coached by someone else that they pointed that out. Because I had this open door policy when I was like leading publicists and quite frankly, I loved helping. And I still love helping people. But what I didn't realise was that having this open-door policy meant that I was always receiving questions and being dragged into situations where I didn't need to be. So I was kind of involving myself involuntarily. And it wasn't until my coach pointed out, because, like you said, I got overwhelmed, I was frazzled and ended up staying there really late to catch up on my work in the evenings. And that was a downward spiral. And my coach said to me, 'Well, you're getting your needs met'. And I was kind of slightly horrified at that thinking, 'Oh, my God', it was like a bit of a shot in the stomach, but he was right. You know, I love helping, so I'm putting myself in a position where I'm being able to help people. But as a result, I'm not doing my job. And he was harsh, but true.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>08:29<br><br></div><div>You can fall into that rescuer position, where you want to rescue everybody. And you see other people as the victim almost, 'Oh you've got too much work, give it to me'. And sometimes that satisfies our needs, our needs of the knight in shining armour - I can rescue you. And also it's love. Love as well comes into it. You know, because you feel loved. Because people need you. It's like that needing.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>08:57<br><br></div><div>I'm feeling more bad about myself the more we talk about it. And what other mistakes do you see people making when they're managing other people?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>09:06<br><br></div><div>I was just gonna say also you know you said about an open-door policy and when you say that to the team, 'I've got an open-door policy', how many people actually come through the door or get in contact with you? Do you go out and approach them? That's what I'm getting at. So it's not like, oh, guys come to me, it's open door. But then waiting for them to come to you can be tricky, because they might not come to you.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>09:36<br><br></div><div>Or the same people come to you, like the same people.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>09:40<br><br></div><div>Just in general, the whole team really. You know, sometimes people say I've got an open- door policy, come and see me whenever you need me. And then a lot of managers leave it at that. But then why not get out and see them?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>09:56<br><br></div><div>I was thinking where you going with this? So basically what you're saying is, it's wrong to say that. I mean, nowadays most often, no one has an office nowadays it's all open plan. But what you're saying is, and this is something I read in a book about management, was where the leader would always come in and talk to everybody in the room, you know, acknowledge them and know their name or ask out and it was just that personal touch. And I just think that's really important, when you're managing other people, just to be that kind of, I'm not saying all day, every day chatting to people in the office, but certainly to be approachable and have that personal touch.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>10:37<br><br></div><div>Yeah, definitely. And I think it does feed into making people feel comfortable with you and the environment they're working in. You know, one thing that we were talking about was, if you have people that are different from you, they might be more perhaps introverted, and you're perhaps more extroverted. And it's appreciating that they bring different things to the party. The other way around as well, if you're more the extroverted person, and you're in the team, then the manager should allow for that, because you have different qualities that you can bring to the team as well. You know, it shouldn't be that if I'm introverted, and everyone else should be introverted, you know, don't don't make a noise, that kind of thing, you know, if we work in an office environment that is, but I think the whole essence of what we're talking about is being appreciative of other people's strengths and what they bring.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>11:29<br><br></div><div>That's so true. And are you saying that it's better to adapt your own style to suit? Because, you've got to be a bit of a chameleon, haven't you when you're managing different types of characters, different kinds of personalities? And I am just conjuring up ideas of being managed in the past when, you can think about a manager that only respected people that were like them, that had their style. And didn't spend time with the ones that were, I don't know, less, extroverted, for example.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>12:04<br><br></div><div>Yeah, it's like, having an appreciation of maybe adapting slightly. I'm not saying you have to change completely, because that's unreasonable. And also, you're going to spend a lot of energy doing that. And it's not, that's not sustainable. So it's having an appreciation about how other people work as well. So some people, if you look at communication styles, perhaps everyone's heard of communication styles, some people need more detail, some people need less detail. Some people need to just run with something. Some people need a bit more direction maybe. Just moving on from communication styles, you could think about leadership styles as well. If you have somebody that's new in your team, what do they need from you? And certainly, if you leave them alone, and don't really give them any direction, they're going to perhaps fail. So you know, this is like a guy called Ken Blanchard, he came up with situational leadership. And this is basically what we're talking about, if you have somebody else who's got a lot of experience, maybe as good competency levels, I may perhaps approach them differently, may give them a bit more autonomy or hands off approach to them. So it's having an appreciation of who you have in your team as well.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>13:22<br><br></div><div>So how do you make that assessment as to which style you choose to manage someone else?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>13:28<br><br></div><div>Yeah, there's different styles. Obviously, without some kind of visuals, it's difficult for people to take in. But he talks about motivation levels and competency levels. And you can perhaps have an indication about where people are, and also, how do I approach them? So it talks about direction, coaching, supportive style and delegation style, which is a bit more hands off.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>13:56<br><br></div><div>Okay, so you've got to assess kind of how competent are they in this particular task? And therefore, what's required here of me? Do I have to be a little bit more direction? You know, give him a bit more direction? Or can I just coach? So that's a really interesting, and I think a great takeaway is to think about how competent that person is in that particular task.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>14:17<br><br></div><div>Yeah. And the other thing is ask them as well, where do they think they are? You know, because you could, if we are just guessing, that's not gonna be great. If you can ask them as well, you might be able to get some kind of 'What you need from me?' You know, some kind of assessment of where they are, and then you'll know, so ask them as well don't just observe.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>14:37<br><br></div><div>And I suppose again, from my own experience, if you then start giving too much direct direction to someone who's actually quite competent in that task, then you're micromanaging, aren't you?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>14:49<br><br></div><div>Yeah, they're gonna feel like they're being micromanaged. And we all know what that feels like.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>14:55<br><br></div><div>And similarly on the other end of the spectrum, leaving someone to just kind of fail, not setting them up for success, saying, okay, so it's the first time you've worked on a pitch, for example, do this, this and this, go and do it. And then they come back and haven't been able to do it because they've never done it before. And then you get sort of irritated with them or something that, again, setting, not choosing the right style is it?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>15:20<br><br></div><div>Yes, exactly. And also people can regress as well. So they may lose a bit of competence. And the problem there is that the manager is treating them exactly the same as they treated them before. But they, the person has changed. And we need to have that in the back of our mind as well.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>15:35<br><br></div><div>So it's like, a new face?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>15:37<br><br></div><div>Yeah, exactly. It's a lot of adapting.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>15:39<br><br></div><div>So when people come to your course, they want to be managing other people for the first time, what kinds of questions do they have for you typically?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>15:58<br><br></div><div>A lot of people come to the course, one of the most common questions is that they've started as a manager, they're doing the managerial things. And also, they're trying to cover some of the work they were doing before, which is obviously tricky, and they're going to become overwhelmed by that. And I guess one of the things is to have a conversation with a senior, whoever that is, to understand priorities, and put it on their radar. But I do think that a lot of people miss out on using some coaching skills, the basic coaching skills. In coaching, we talk about push and pull. So push is giving information. And then pull is asking good questions for that person to think about the answers, and if they've thought about the answer, they're more than likely to perhaps do it. So as we spoke about earlier, the person who becomes overwhelmed because they are now the guru, this is another good way of, of perhaps just asking a few questions, and letting that person go with it. If they've been trained, and they kind of know the answer, you're teasing it out of them, rather than them coming to you all the time. So it kind of feeds into the to the other question as well.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>17:13<br><br></div><div>So can you give us an example of a push question and a pull question?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>17:19<br><br></div><div>Okay, so what I mean by push is you're giving information.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>17:26<br><br></div><div>Oh, sorry.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>17:26<br><br></div><div>So, if someone comes to you and says, 'When does that report have to be in by?' then you're just giving the answer. Right? You give me the deadline, that's it. Or 'What's the kind of structure that you would want for this report?' And I give them the answer. But if it's something that's coming up all the time, I may ask them, 'What what do you think?' So what I mean, so our natural impulse, maybe that's not a great example, but our natural impulse is to give answers to people. And we've got to try and counteract that a little bit by asking questions, to draw it out of others, because that people grow, and they learn for themselves if we can do that. And I know probably what you're thinking there's, maybe, there's no time for it. See what I mean, so because people say I haven't got time for that, I haven't got time for a quick conversation. It doesn't have to be quick. It doesn't really doesn't have to be quick. And there are times where you can you just give an answer. Because it's time critical or something. But we have to try and think about well, how can I start asking questions and getting other people to feel empowered to come up with his answers.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>18:44<br><br></div><div>So it doesn't have to take a long time you mean, it doesn't have to be a huge conversation. And one of the things, I don't know if this is helpful, but often when I speak to account managers who maybe have a problem in the agency, and maybe it just means that they have to have a conversation with their boss, for example, I say, think of it in three columns. Just think about like, 'What's the problem?' in one column, like 'What's the challenge you've got? what's the what's the issue you have?' And the next column I say, 'How's that impacting? What's the impact on the business maybe or impact on others or impact on you? Like, what's the impact?' And then 'What are your suggestions?' next column. So what's your ideas to resolve it? Because that way, you're going in more of an empowered way to your boss, so that they don't have to think about this from scratch. And in a way if, and I suppose I got this years ago when a boss said to all of us, said you know, we're already busy when you come with a problem. Think of a couple of solutions for me, so we can quickly discuss the solutions that you see, that could work, rather than me having to think about the problem for the first time. Then try to come up with a solution. So I think that's good practice. What do you think?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>20:04<br><br></div><div>You know, it's absolutely, they have that in hospitals. And nurses use it. When the nurse has to report something, they have a structure. And this is, I mean, I can't remember off the top of my head now, but they do have a structure. And I think it's really good to have that. And so that person knows, you know, if I do come to you, I've got something here ready. Ready, prepared. Yeah. And maybe I can put that in a link or something?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>20:33<br><br></div><div>That would be great. Yeah, that'd be really useful. So what do you think like the top three things that you should consider, when you want to be managing other people? Like the essential skills that you should have?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>20:49<br><br></div><div>I think, first of all, it's the impact you are making through your behaviour. So the perception of you, you have start to become self aware, like, what am I putting across to people, because some behaviours are almost a green light for others to have the same behaviour. Yeah, so I've got to be aware of what I'm doing basically and become more self aware. I was coaching somebody a few months ago and they were telling me a story about, they used to have this feedback of when they looked up, or they were on a zoom call, or, or trying to talk to other people, their facial expression was really quite harsh. And the perception was that they were angry. And it wasn't that, it was like they were concentrating. So when when you think about what you give out, it's really important. And there was a really interesting study that was done by a guy called SG Basade, I believe, I have to be careful how to say that. But he did a study around mood and how mood translates to other people, and particularly managers. And through his research, he found that if the manager had a really kind of a good mood, I don't want to say you know, they're positive...<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>22:31<br><br></div><div>That they're juggling..<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>22:35<br><br></div><div>Comes in on stilts, juggling at the same time! Yeah, but no, he found that that boosted productivity, basically, the team felt a bit more comfortable. And the opposite was true, if they come in with a low mood, maybe a little bit negative. And they found that that there was a link to productivity came down. I mean, it sounds very obvious. I know.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>22:59<br><br></div><div>But it doesn't in a way, because when you're managing other people, you don't even think about these things. It's almost like getting yourself into a different state. And being aware that like, put your woes and worries to one side, because your mood is just gonna infiltrate someone else's day, frankly, isn't it? And, two things, I think another confession time, I think I was guilty of that, again, because I was so stressed out and busy myself. And I was managing other people. So for example, I was typing on my computer, someone would come up to my desk, and I'd look up and go, 'Yes!' you know, like not angry, angry, but I would kind of look up with not a happy face. And people would sort of go 'Whoa!' you know, and you don't want to inflict that on people. And the second thing I say is a bit of a tip that you've just shared, is because we are in the virtual world, there is a there is an opportunity to record yourself on Zoom. And I said this to a group the other day, and because I do it almost all the time because most of my sessions are recorded, I played it back and I did not crack a smile for the first 45 minutes. And I looked like I was not angry, but I just looked a bit serious. And I wasn't feeling serious. But that mood, you know, God knows how it kind of infiltrated the group. But I think that's a really good tip. Really good tip.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>24:24<br><br></div><div>Now I'm really paranoid that I haven't smiled.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>24:26<br><br></div><div>Yeah, exactly. Miserable git!<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>24:32<br><br></div><div>Yeah, the other thing I wanted to say is, making sure that you create an environment where people can come to you, and that feeds into your mood as well, but that's, you know, that's another thing. But there's a lot of talk around psychological safety now. And this originates from a study that Google did on their most successful teams. It's all out there. If you Google this, it's out in the internet. But they found that people who had psychological safety in a team were more likely to give ideas, they're more likely to bring up things which perhaps are a little bit uncomfortable, and maybe, say what was on their mind or how they felt about something. And in a positive way that can help the company and the manager because you know what's actually happening in the undercurrent of the team, rather than everything going underground. You know, everybody after work, bitching about what's going on at work,<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>25:39<br><br></div><div>Which happens, right, let's be honest, which happens all too often doesn't it, frequently? I mean, I even get it myself, like the confidentiality is, really important to me. But I end up working with account managers, who will share with me how they're really feeling about the leadership team, for example, and the leadership team have no idea that this is the impact that they're having. And you're right, it's like these two kind of worlds going on in one company. There's the reality of how everybody's sort of, 'Oh God, here he goes again', and what the perception is from the leadership team like, how do you stop that happening? How do you make sure that the whole company has psychological safety and they feel encouraged to speak their minds and maybe fail? I mean, I think one of those findings wasn't it from that study, that you could&nbsp; admit you made a mistake and not feel you were going to be you know, ridiculed?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>26:37<br><br></div><div>Yeah, I think it's the fear of the repercussion of something happening. And it's a really difficult one. I mean, I think it starts with the manager, really. I mean it does, let's face it, it does start from above, the likelihood of that, starting from above, I'm not too sure about but for definitely, the new managers, they can really think about, well how do I set this out? How do I make sure people feel comfortable. And a lot of people think it's quite soft, but it's not soft, it's actually dealing with maybe more sensitive things as well, you know, things that need to be said, so giving feedback to other people. But making that to be quite comfortable, and quite normal to give feedback and receive feedback as well. But for the manager, you have to be quite vulnerable really, you have to show a bit of vulnerability. And that's not to mean that you come in and you say, 'Guys, I'm completely rubbish all the time', because that's going to have a real effect on you. But you know, if you've made a mistake, then you admit, 'I've made a mistake, I've been in the same position as you'. See what I mean? So you're showing a bit of vulnerability.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>27:53<br><br></div><div>Right, which gives people more of a feeling that they can feel comfortable doing the same thing. So setting the lead, setting the tone and do the behaviours that you want to see in your team.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>28:05<br><br></div><div>Yeah, and the other thing is, like having shared values as well, within the team. You know, what do you expect from your team members? What can you expect from me? So you've got some kind of working behaviours that people can adhere to. You know, that's a little exercise you can do.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>28:24<br><br></div><div>That's a great idea. Would you suggest that that's done in a kind of workshop environment?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>28:28<br><br></div><div>I mean, ideally, yeah. But, you know, in this virtual...<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>28:34<br><br></div><div>...virtual workshop...<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>28:35<br><br></div><div>Yeah, absolutely. And it doesn't need to be hours and hours. It's just, what do you expect from each other, what you expect from me? What are things that are blockers that we can perhaps, identify, and work on?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>28:48<br><br></div><div>I'm almost thinking about doing the session, because I did a very similar session once, years ago, in an office, and we had loads of post it notes. And there were three or four columns and there were questions. And it was such a brilliant exercise, everyone was really engaged, and I think it was, I think you helped me with that one. And it was like, 'What are the behaviours that we want to see in our team?' And oh, my goodness, there was so many ideas and you can use Miro, couldn't you now, in a virtual environment to do the same thing? So that's a brilliant tip.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>29:23<br><br></div><div>The other one I was going to say is like being comfortable giving feedback, because that can be really awkward.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>29:30<br><br></div><div>How do you even go about giving feedback? Because I'm sure everyone's leaning in thinking, I need to give someone some feedback. How do I even start?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>29:38<br><br></div><div>Well there are structures out there that you can get prepared to give the feedback. I mean, this is a big session in one of the courses that we do, it's really thinking about, think about the person. So, some people are quite sensitive to feedback and some people are, bring it on, that's their kind of attitude, doesn't really matter what it is. But I think a little bit of preparation needs to happen. And there's a few structures, obviously, as I mentioned. But I do think it's got to be done in like a way, which is a care way, a supportive way. But also take into consideration that you're taking responsibility for it as well. So a guy called Marcus Buckingham, he talks about this, he says, a lot of feedback is quite subjective. So you've got to show or say that it's coming from you. Things like, 'Here's how I see it, here's how I see it'. You're not saying, 'Here's how we see it'. So there's a difference. And making it factual. If it's pinned to a process, or something that the company has as a policy, then that's easier to give, because it's there, it's written down. But being, other things are more subjective. I do think we obviously have to give a balance, you know, we have to make sure that get people get praise. But the constructive stuff, you can't dodge it. Because, a lot of people will actually save up constructive feedback for the kind of one off performance review once a year. Which is pretty horrendous. You know, when you get into that review and all of a sudden, you've got somebody saying that last March, you did this. When was that? You can't remember yesterday! And so it kind of depletes the impact of the feedback.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>31:48<br><br></div><div>So can I just pause for a bit because I just want to summarise, this is really useful. So when you're giving feedback use 'I' rather than 'We'. And absolutely, when you really think about it, otherwise, the person's going to think 'Who is this We?' Like, who are all these people that have kind of been talking about me and corners and whispering? And they might get some feelings of paranoia, wouldn't they? So that's a really good tip,&nbsp; just that tip alone And then sort of, carry on.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>32:15<br><br></div><div>Yeah, the obvious ones are, not in front of other people. Every time I say that, I just feel it's so obvious. But I do hear other people say that that actually happens to me!&nbsp; It's not obvious. Okay. Let me, another confession. Well, it's my boss. Like we had an internal meeting, I remember it to this day. And he asked a question to the room, and I thought I might have an answer. And&nbsp; I was quite Junior, I'd never spoken up in my life in a meeting, internal meeting. I was totally intimidated. Even thinking about what I wanted to say my face, glow hot red, but I thought Nope, go on Jen. Do it. Do it. Put your suggestion forward. Anyway, so I gave my suggestion. He turned to me and said, 'That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard'. On my life. He said that, right? Honestly, my face was burning. My heart rate was right up. I felt awful. Like talk about someone pulling the rug from underneath your feet. I mean, in hindsight, obviously, that was awful, shitty thing for him to do. But what did it encourage? It encouraged my future behaviour, never to speak up in a meeting, never to put forward an idea, because you're going to feel awful and it was humiliating, quite frankly, in front of everybody. Exactly. And then what he's doing really, is conveying the message that that is okay to do that as well. You know, to other people. So then you're kind of building a culture of well never say anything, because you're going to get the same treatment as Jenny got. So yeah, you're building that culture, which is quite negative thing. Okay, where do we get to? Oh, yeah. The other thing I wanted to mention is being aware of the feedback sandwich. I mean, this can be, I'm not gonna say to completely dismiss it because in some situations, like, if you've got a specialist who's working and been experienced, they just say, 'Okay, well give me the feedback. What is it good or bad? What is it?' But that's okay for some people, but the feedback sandwich most people know about. So if your boss says to you, I need to talk to you a minute and all of a sudden they launch into 'Look, you're doing really, really well. You're doing excellent'. You know, we're not stupid. We're waiting for the next bit to come in. And we all know that when you hear that word, 'But', you know that the negative bit's coming in, and what do we all kind of focus on? We all focus on the negatives, normally, we don't really hear the praise So, you know, the feedback sandwiches, the praise, the negatives and the praise. What we end up doing is we don't hear about the praise; we just are left with those negatives. And that's what we dwell on for the whole of the weekend, perhaps, if it's done on a Friday. So yeah, just to make sure we're aware that people know that. And I do think, yes, we need a balance. Yes, people need to know, perhaps what their what they're doing right. But be aware of that one, be aware of it and just to be balanced in it.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>35:38<br><br></div><div>Okay, so you said something earlier on that I wanted to just bring back in, that you said, don't save up all of the praise or the negativity for the annual meeting. You know, this is what you did last March. So what you're saying is give feedback on a regular basis, but you're saying don't use that typical structure of, you know, praise, shit in the middle, and praise at the end, because...<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>36:05<br><br></div><div>I wouldn't take it!<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>36:05<br><br></div><div>I would, because it's my podcast!&nbsp; So what's the alternative? Can you just share something that like, what's the alternative?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>36:12<br><br></div><div>Yeah, okay. So there's a structure, which is like, okay, what's the action or behaviour? What actually happened and be specific with that? And then give the impact of it. Or ask for the impact of that. So this happened, or I've noticed this, the impact for me was this. Or, you could say in a non patronising way, what do you think is the impact of that? And a simple one is to then get into is, well what can we do about it? What's next? Almost.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>36:47<br><br></div><div>Nice.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>36:48<br><br></div><div>So it's like the action, the impact and then what do we do next about it? I mean, there are a lot out there. And without launching into the course right now, there's a lot more around it that we could talk about, but it's just to get a flavour.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>37:01<br><br></div><div>That's really helpful as well. I think, honestly, I think, as I said before, I never had any training into to how to do it properly. So a lot of people are finding their way with managing others and hoping that they're doing a good job.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>37:13<br><br></div><div>Yeah, of course. And I think, you know, especially on a course, if you give too much information, people become like 'What, what, where are we with this?' And if you can just make it very simplified with a few principles around it, that's what people take away.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>37:32<br><br></div><div>Can you give us an example, maybe of someone that you've met in your life that you think of as one of the most successful people managers that you've seen?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>37:42<br><br></div><div>I've had a lot of really good people, managers, myself, and I've also in the past had a lot of really, really bad ones. And this is why I love this subject so much&nbsp; because I can see the effects that managers have on people and their development. And I was a manager years ago, made all the mistakes and realised that it's not an easy job. But there are some things that we can do to make it a little bit easier, and to help other people because that's what you're doing. You're affecting other people and their lives. The person that I think you're talking about is I used to work for Richard Branson.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>38:35<br><br></div><div>Virgin Atlantic.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>38:35<br><br></div><div>Yeah, but Richard Branson. So I mean, I think, obviously, I don't know the guy personally, but what he for people was usually he had a people first kind of attitude, I thought. And I think it's just about being human. And, you know, treating people equally and inclusively as well.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>38:57<br><br></div><div>Let me tell the story, because I know you're too, you feel like it's, you know, you shouldn't say it, but you've spent time with it because you how many years did you work at Virgin Atlantic in the training?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>39:09<br><br></div><div>Seven or eight years.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>39:10<br><br></div><div>Yes. And he was very accessible wasn't he, I mean you spent like, I don't know, half a day once, you had to spend with him. So you were observing? And also you did end up staying at his house. Come on!<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>39:25<br><br></div><div>You were gonna say that!<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>39:28<br><br></div><div>I was amazed, like, I couldn't believe you. And you said, you didn't even say this recently, but I remember you told me years ago that he got everyone sitting around his kitchen table and was having a chat. Do you remember you told me that?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>39:42<br><br></div><div>Yeah. Yeah.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>39:43<br><br></div><div>And he asked you for feedback, didn't he?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>39:47<br><br></div><div>Yeah. I won't go into the details. But he was what he was doing was trying to get opinions and ideas of a certain situation that they were having in the airline at that time. And that just tells you that he was open to other people's ideas, and I wasn't anybody special at all, you know, I was a trainer. And that's what I liked about him. He was, he didn't have that hierarchical kind of feel, you know, 'I'm the chairman of this company'. It's kind of just human to human.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>40:21<br><br></div><div>And I think that's the takeaway from that story really isn't it? He was asking for feedback, which I think is a really good thing in itself. You know, what do you all think? Because then people that are in your team feel more empowered to make the answer, rather than you imposing your views or imposing how you think it should be.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>40:42<br><br></div><div>So yeah, exactly.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>40:44<br><br></div><div>He's always struck me, I mean I've never even met him, but he's always struck me as a personality in the public eye that just looks like a great person to work for.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>40:53<br><br></div><div>Yeah, yeah, for sure. I'm sure other people have had bad experiences. But I think in general, for mine, it was good. But and also he kind of empowered people to make decisions as well, and also to not always be the one that's kind of making a decision, but asking first, before you make a decision as a manager, or, you know, leader of the company, let's say. But yeah, inclusivity, I think was the major thing.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>41:24<br><br></div><div>Are any questions that people should be asking you about managing other people that they that they don't ask?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>41:33<br><br></div><div>I think, understanding differences in others is one thing. And, making sure that, we all have differences in terms of how we're motivated, we're all motivated by different things. And some of the mistakes that I think managers can make is, they try and manage, sorry, try and motivate in the same way that they're motivated. And it just doesn't work. So it's trying to get underneath what drives the person and knowing a little bit more about them. I mean, there's been loads of books written about it, a guy called Patrick Lencioni, one of my favourites, and he talks about three signs of a miserable job. He had a book that was called that, and he was saying that anonymity is being, is quite a miserable thing, right? If people don't know you, within your business, or the manager doesn't know you, how miserable is that going to be? But it's not, it's not kind of being poking, you know, how many times you've been divorced and stuff like that, it's about knowing a little bit about the person. So if they've got kids, maybe they have difficulties, they might need a bit of time to pick up the kids, you know, it's the nuances. That's what I'm getting at.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>42:50<br><br></div><div>Do you know what, this is such a good insight, it's to understand what's important to other people. And because of this remote way of working, for example, I know that some agencies, for example, recognise that everyone's Zoomed out. And they're really, really busy. So they've made a policy that they don't have any internal meetings scheduled for Friday's, for example. Because, unfortunately, you're working a million miles an hour often in agency. And if suddenly you look at your diary, and it's just meeting and meeting and meeting, you don't get anything done. And I don't know what you've been hearing from different businesses you're working with, but everyone seems to be working harder and more intensely in this remote environment from home because you don't have that wind downtime from driving the car going home and things. So that understanding of everyone's individual scenario, like&nbsp; homeschooling, all the parents that I feel so sorry for, well, you included, that had to homeschool, whilst you're trying to have a full time job that's really busy.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>43:53<br><br></div><div>Yeah, exactly. And one thing that's come up a few times on courses is, having clear channels of how do I communicate when I need to? And what kind of software are we using for what, and someone suddenly said this, like, a couple of weeks ago, they said, 'Look, we don't we don't know, when we're doing a piece of work, where do I add that? Is it in Microsoft? Is it in a meeting on Zoom?' So I think those kind of norms need to be clear. You know, when you're communicating if you need to get hold of me for an emergency, Whatsapp is the best one, you know, whatever it is for you. And so make sure that your team know how to communicate to you, and what kind of contribution they have to make and where they make that. Does that make sense? So, you know, is it on Microsoft Teams?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>44:50<br><br></div><div>Is it on Slack?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>44:53<br><br></div><div>Is it on email? What's the best thing and this is a couple of questions I had, but that's quite a common question. So, for a manager to be able to get that across, I think it's really important.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>45:03<br><br></div><div>You see, this comes back to the point about time management. Time management, everyone's struggling with time to get anything done. And what I've noticed on Zoom, when people are talking to me that there's these pop up sounds 'Bing, bing, bing!' I don't know what's going on, but it probably an email that's come through, and their attention is distracted. And there's this fascinating study that it says, if you're concentrating on a task, and you're distracted, it takes up to 25 minutes to get back to the task that you were focusing on. Now, can you imagine how unproductive your day is if you've got pop ups, and you need that deep time to work on things that lend themselves to more concentration, like proposal writing or generating ideas? But everyone seems to be in this pop up world- WhatsApp, email, and you don't, it's almost like we don't help ourselves do we?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>45:56<br><br></div><div>No, exactly. There's a book about it. And the guy's name is <a href="https://www.calnewport.com/books/deep-work/">Cal Newport</a>, I think his name is, and he talks about deep work. And, he's saying that it's just making the point that we don't really have time to do some really concentrated quality work at times, because we've got so many other things going on. There's so many people talking about the distraction kind of world that we're living in. And, you know, even on courses, you know, sometimes on courses, you get somebody who's like this side, that they're, they're not facing the camera, but they're obviously doing some work, at the same time. It's just impossible. You can't concentrate on more than one thing at a time really.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>46:41<br><br></div><div>I agree, and probably a completely separate podcast about it. But to your point about if you are then in a leadership position, or managing others, it's almost like telling your team, look for these hours or these blocks of time, I'm not going to be available on email. But if you need me in an emergency, like call my phone, so to have one agreed way that they can interrupt you if really, really necessary.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>47:06<br><br></div><div>Yeah, yeah.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>47:08<br><br></div><div>Okay.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>47:10<br><br></div><div>I was always impressed with one manager I used to work with, he used to record a message every single day to say what he was doing. So, he would say that I'm in meetings from two to four, if you need me, you can get hold of me at this point. So it was for clients as well. But I just thought it was a really nice touch, he would record it every single day.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>47:30<br><br></div><div>That's really good, that's a good tip.&nbsp; It was Ian by the way.&nbsp; Oh, was it? Okay, what books or sources of inspiration would you recommend people read if they're interested in learning more about managing others?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>47:42<br><br></div><div>I'm a bit of a hoarder when it comes to management books, I always kind of think, what's new and shiny?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>47:48<br><br></div><div>Don't read them, just put them on the shelves so it looks like you very well read.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>47:52<br><br></div><div>Yeah, look how many things I read. But sometimes you dip in and out of them because there's certain things about them that you say, I'm interested in that bit. But there's a few, I mean, <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Five-Dysfunctions-Team-Leadership-Lencioni/dp/0787960756">Five Dysfunctions Of a Team</a> is really good - Patrick Lencioni. He makes the point in that, that conflict is quite good. Not particularly between people, disliking people, but it's about ideas, it's about ways forward. Rather than thinking, oh, gosh, you know, Jenny hasn't got the same kind of view as me and that being a problem, it should be a positive, it should be a good thing that we are discussing ways forwards and tasks. So I do think Patrick Lencioni is really good and he's got about five or six management books. And they're great, I really like them. <a href="https://www.adamgrant.net/">Adam Grant</a> is really good. He covers a lot to do with management, but also things outside of management as well that make you think. If I had the titles with me now, I would give them to you.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>49:04<br><br></div><div>I think the author's name is fine. as good.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>49:07<br><br></div><div>Okay. And I would also look at emotional intelligence as well. You know, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbradberry/">Travis Bradberry</a>, and <a href="https://www.danielgoleman.info/">Daniel Goleman</a>. It's about, a big part of it is self awareness. You know, and how your emotions, you can think about when you are what they call emotionally hijacked. And there's another phrase for it, which, which is the Amygdala Hijack, where certain things will make you respond in a way perhaps, which you didn't want to respond. So there are triggers and I think, as a manager, to have a view on what your triggers are, and how you deal and manage those triggers is really important. So that's another area I would definitely get you to look at as well.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>49:58<br><br></div><div>That's really useful.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>49:59<br><br></div><div>There's a new one, which is called <a href="https://www.foyles.co.uk/witem/business/the-evolved-leader,stephen-young-9781260010831">The Evolved Leader</a> as well. I'd look at that and a few coaching books, which I was...<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>50:06<br><br></div><div>I'm going to be spending a lot of time on Amazon!<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>50:12<br><br></div><div>I know I could go on and on here. I could give some recommendations in the notes if you'd like?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>50:17<br><br></div><div>Fantastic. We'll do that, Matt. That's great. So just finally, can you tell us a bit more about your course? And if people are interested in coming on this, 'Managing others for new managers', how can people book?<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>50:31<br><br></div><div>Yeah, I've got various different ways. If you want to contact me, contact me on matt@bottledlearning.com, and then I can give you the dates of what's coming up next. So probably the easiest way.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; </strong>50:42<br><br></div><div>All right, fantastic. Well, thank you so much. That was I think, hopefully, that was really going to give a lot of food for thought for people who are maybe in the position that they're going to be managing someone or they're already managing someone and hoping to get it right. So thank you so much for sharing so much. It's been brilliant.<br><br></div><div><strong>Matt&nbsp; </strong>50:59<br><br></div><div>Thanks. I’ve enjoyed it. Thank you.<br><br></div><div><br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 27 Apr 2021 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/6w3xkjz8.mp3" length="57053434" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/76376110-a67e-11eb-8f1d-61034929e144/76376230-a67e-11eb-96fa-9b2390281e70.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2852</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 28. This episode's for you if you're interested in managing other people. Maybe you're in an account manager role now and you're thinking that the next step up for you is going to be an account director role, where you're going to be responsible for a team. And you're wondering what skills you need and how you should prepare yourself for the role. So I persuaded an expert to come and talk to us. We talked all about

how to manage other people,  and what skills you need to do the job effectively.
the biggest changes people have to make when transitioning to managing others, and some of the biggest mistakes people make when managing others for the first time.
the top three things people should consider when wanting to make that move, and some examples of the most successful people in manage managerial roles.

Lots of value here and lots of tips and takeaways for you if you are thinking about this role. You may also notice that I'm quite familiar with the guest. This is because it's my brother, Matt Plant. He's been in training for over 20 years, working with with training companies like Hemsley Fraser, Virgin Atlantic, and he was in the training department for Energy Development Oman in the Middle East. He's worked with clients such as Rolls-Royce, Cancer Research, the Bank of England, and many, many other organisations, helping them with training and general learning interventions for lots of different topics. So he's probably the most expert person that I know. And whilst I do have many years managing others, I was never officially trained. So I hope you come away with some ideas for yourself when it comes to managing other people.

And please do get in contact with Matt, to find out more details about his course that's coming up for managing others for new managers. </itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 28. This episode's for you if you're interested in managing other people. Maybe you're in an account manager role now and you're thinking that the next step up for you is going to be an account director role, where you're going to be responsible for a team. And you're wondering what skills you need and how you should prepare yourself for the role. So I persuaded an expert to come and talk to us. We talked all about

how to manage other people,  and what skills you need to do the job effectively.
the biggest changes people have to make when transitioning to managing others, and some of the biggest mistakes people make when managing others for the first time.
the top three things people should consider when wanting to make that move, and some examples of the most successful people in manage managerial roles.

Lots of value here and lots of tips and takeaways for you if you are thinking about this role. You may also notice that I'm quite familiar with the guest. This is because it's my brother, Matt Plant. He's been in training for over 20 years, working with with training companies like Hemsley Fraser, Virgin Atlantic, and he was in the training department for Energy Development Oman in the Middle East. He's worked with clients such as Rolls-Royce, Cancer Research, the Bank of England, and many, many other organisations, helping them with training and general learning interventions for lots of different topics. So he's probably the most expert person that I know. And whilst I do have many years managing others, I was never officially trained. So I hope you come away with some ideas for yourself when it comes to managing other people.

And please do get in contact with Matt, to find out more details about his course that's coming up for managing others for new managers. </itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>Managing others</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>10 top tips to be successful in agency account management, with Jenny Plant</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/1npj529n</link>
      <itunes:title>10 top tips to be successful in agency account management, with Jenny Plant</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>27</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">z0rnj7w0</guid>
      <description>Welcome to Episode 27. This is the top 10 tips to be successful in agency account management. And the reason that I'm giving you top 10 tips is because we've now passed 26 episodes on this podcast, and we've had some fantastic guests sharing really, really brilliant advice for agency account managers to up their game, to be more proficient in what they do, and to be much more successful in their role. So I thought what I'd do is reflect back on some of those interviews, and pull out some of the best tips that I think have been shared on the podcast. So this episode is highlighting all of the top tips that are going to help you in your role.

A quick reminder if you are interested in knowing who's coming up on the next podcast, and also listening and hearing new tips and advice for agency account managers, then come over to my website, accountmanagementskills.com and sign up for my newsletter. The newsletter goes out every week, or two weeks, and I try to include as many tips as I can, new tips that I've learned through listening to someone on the podcast myself, or things that I'm reading and sharing. And I can let you know about forthcoming trainings.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:</strong><br>&nbsp;</div><div>00:01</div><div>Welcome to Episode 27. This is the top 10 tips to be successful in agency account management. And the reason that I'm giving you top 10 tips is because we've now passed 26 episodes on this podcast, and we've had some fantastic guests sharing really, really brilliant advice for agency account managers to up their game, to be more proficient in what they do, and to be much more successful in their role. So I thought what I'd do is reflect back on some of those interviews, and pull out some of the best tips that I think have been shared on the podcast. So this episode is highlighting all of the top tips that are going to help you in your role.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>00:48</div><div>The first piece of advice that I'd like to pull out is from episode number one. This was with Kate Whittaker, Kate has 30 years as a marketing client. She's dealt with hundreds of agencies through her time. And she said, good account management makes everything run smoothly. But great account management is what transforms the relationship from a client supplier to one of a real partnership. And she said, we're quite specialist in what we do. And industry knowledge is really important to me. So the account director I work with in our current agency will often just drop me an email with information, snippets of news, industry news, and competitor activity that she thinks I might have missed. So I think that was a great tip. Always make sure that your client knows that you're thinking about them, and keeping them top of mind. So if you're not doing this on a regular basis, then make sure you set up Google Alerts and send a piece of information that you think is relevant, but not only send it, also tell them why you're sending it and why you think it's relevant to them. And perhaps any action that you believe needs to be taken as a result. So, great piece of advice from Kate.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>02:05</div><div>Quite a similar piece of advice taken from Episode Two of the podcast with Tina Fegent. Tina has 25 years working in marketing procurement. Again, she's really competent dealing with agencies. She's actually worked agency side as a commercial director many years ago. But she spent a lot of time dealing with agencies from a marketing procurement perspective. And she says that the, when asked about the most important skills of an account manager is for her all about being proactive. And she said, 'I think being able to hold senior level discussions are really important, and being financially aware.' And she said, I think that it's an area that could be really improved in terms of having those 'why are we all here?' conversations. And what she's referring to, is why is the client actually investing their money in that PR campaign, that digital asset, that event, ultimately is because they need to drive sales. So having a business acumen, being commercially aware, is really, really important. Because she says at the end of the day, the key one is being focused on the client's business. That's what is top of their mind. And that's what we've got to keep top of ours. Fantastic advice from Tina.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>03:25</div><div>The next top tip is taken from episode number three. And this was with Marcus Cauchi, it was called 'How to sell to existing and prospective clients'. It was probably one of the most popular podcasts. And during this interview, Marcus shared some really straight talking advice. And I've just picked out a couple of things that he said on the podcast, which I'd love to share again. He said your job is to always make sure your customer is the hero of the story. Stop talking about you, your agency, your past glories, no one cares. That's like showing photos of your ugly children to strangers. Focus on the how you helped a client achieve their strategic objective, how they benefited from it, what they learned, what journey they went through the ups and the downs. Because I think that's what makes a real story. So I think, some fantastic advice from Marcus about making sure that when you have a conversation with a client, it's about how you can help them but not focusing on what you do. So tell a story, be really proficient in understanding your past case studies and how you've helped other clients that are similar to your client achieve their strategic imperative. So that was a fantastic piece of advice. He also went on to share another piece of advice that I wanted to share with you because again, I thought it was spot on. He says establish right from the outset, what their vision is for the next 6, 12, 18, 24 months. And looking at that direction, they're trying to take their business, so that you can stay ahead of where they are making sure that you're co-developing a plan. So if resource is required, identify what those resources will be, when they will be required, what the trigger points are, and identify what budget is going to be required in order to be able to recruit them, and make sure that you understand the client's competitive landscape. So I think, again, what all three of these podcasts really keep reminding us about, is to stand in the shoes of the client, and to really understand their world, their business, their challenges, their opportunities, where they're investing their money next year. And a little tip for you, if you go to seekingalpha.com and you have a huge enterprise client, then you may be able to download the transcripts from the investor relations discussions. And these typically are where CEO, CFOs and generally the C suite present their plans to the company's investors. So it's a great source of information to understand where their focus for their business is going to be for the coming years. So, brilliant advice from Marcus, if you want to, if you haven't yet listened to that podcast, then I would urge you to go back and have a listen.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>06:32</div><div>Tip number four is from episode number four. And it was an interview I did with Phil Lancaster. Phil spent 20 years working in a very senior role at JWT. And he worked on some amazing global brands. And he shared some fantastic advice on this podcast. And I want to pull out a couple of things he said, because now he is actually helping agencies develop relationships with the C suite. He says, I think the brilliant skills required of account management is that you have got to have an understanding and an innate interest and curiosity around two things, one of which is the broad business world. How do clients make money, for example? How can I help them make more money? And how can I grow their business? But equally, you've got to have the qualitative skills, the EQ, the genuine intuition and desire to be interested in anything creative. So I thought that was a fantastic summary of, again, what is so important&nbsp; in the role of account management. And he also sort of warned us he said, I'm working with a lot of agencies right now to whom a relationship with the C suite at their clients organisation does not exist. And he believes they're really, really vulnerable. Because decisions can be made, no matter how good the agency's work has been, or is at the moment, decisions can be made, which have no bearing whatsoever on the current relationship, and output and now suddenly mean that the business is gone. So again, I hope this is a reminder for you to establish relationships with the most senior level clients in the client organisations you're dealing with, because Phil's absolutely on the money here. If anything happens at a change of senior leadership at your client side, then this will inevitably one way or another trickle down the organisation and you will be affected. So make sure that you're keeping an eye on who the C suite are, and also have a plan to connect with them and develop relationships.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>08:55</div><div>Tip number five is taken from episode number five called the fundamentals of successful client management with Carey Evans, and Simon Rhind-Tutt. They have a company called Relationship Audis and Management. And they go in and audit relationships. And the reason I'm so supportive of the company is because when I was working at Publicis, I invited them in to audit a relationship that we had with one of our biggest customers that was worth £700,000 a year. We were struggling a little bit with this relationship, to be honest. And they, as they do, they organised face to face evaluations, interviews with key members of the client organisation, both very senior and quite junior, and what we discovered about that relationship and the feedback that they were able to garner for us, enabled us to put an action plan in place to address all of the concerns and complaints. And I think as a result of what they did for us, we extended that relationship by two years. So that account ended up, we kept it. So it was worth £1.4 million and quite frankly, it, we could have lost it. So I was so impressed with what Simon and Carey's business did, I actually when I left Publicis, I went to work for them for a little while, about nine months. And I conducted interviews on their behalf with client organisations on behalf of different agencies. And it was just fascinating what clients will share with you, when you really are able to ask the questions in a way that helps them to open up. So if you're listening to this, and perhaps you have a big, important client relationship that isn't maybe going so well, and you really want to understand, you know, from the client's perspective, what's going well, where the areas of development and improvement need to happen, but also to have that opportunity to talk about their future needs in the business, then Simon and Carey are the people to contact. And on my interview with them, again, it was just tip after tip after tip about how agency account managers can get better. And they shared with us a couple of statistics that I want to share with you that may be food for thought. So they said, because they carry out lots of surveys, they have lots of benchmarking data, that 63% of clients claim that their agency has never asked them about their expectations of the agency, which, as I say, is not setting off on the right foot really. And if you don't know what your clients expectations are, it's a damn sight easier to deliver them and beat them. Sorry, if you do know what they are, as opposed to simply assuming you know what they are. And this is emphasised, they said even further, when you've got an existing relationship and your client leaves, and a new client joins, and you maybe are assuming that they're gonna want everything in the same way, the same size, the same job, the same package. And of course, they're not. So making sure that from the outset of a really key relationship, that you're asking really great questions, you know, things like for you to turn around to me in six months time and say, 'do you know what, this was the best decision I ever met made, was bringing you in, or continuing our relationship'. And for you to say that to me , what needs to have happened between now and then. And then just going quiet, and letting the client tell you what success looks like for them.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>12:45</div><div>So great piece of advice there. Another tip that they shared is, you know, they asked the question, what proportion of time does a marketing manager on average, in their working week spend working with all of their agencies. And most agencies believe that typically, a marketing manager, their client, spends between 30 and 70%, working with their agencies. But the reality is, it's 7%. So just let that sink in a moment, if you think that your client, they've got an inordinate amount of things to do in their role, lots of different things, demands on their time. Actually, what you do with it with your client is just a tiny, tiny fraction of their day. Because if they have 7% of their working week spending with all of their suppliers, all of their relationships, then you just form a very, very small part. And I think the takeaway here is to really make sure that every interaction with your client matters, so that you're prepared, but you also have that understanding of where the clients at. And Carey and Simon went on to give a piece of advice, saying, you know, ask your client to put in a diary session, just half an hour over a coffee, so that you can ask them questions about their working week. How do they spend their time, what other challenges are they facing, and that really is going to give you some insight into the world of your clients, so that you can understand them better.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>14:21</div><div>Tip number six is taken from an absolutely stunning podcast interview I had with David C. Baker, called 'Agency Leaders Guide to Account Management'. This is Episode 24. And David just quite frankly, shared tip, after tip, after tip, and I just was so blown away by all of the value he shared. But I've picked out one tip that David gave in his interview, which I think was very, very insightful. And I would really encourage you to look into this because he said this is going to strike people as pretty strange and that already made me kind of lean in further to what he was about to say. But, and this was in response to him being asked what makes a great account manager, he said, go to Google and look up 'theory of change', or 'model of change'. And then flip to the image tab and see the 1000s of theories of change. And peruse those someday and come up with a model that's unique to your agency, about how your agency interact with your clients,&nbsp; how you bring them along, what's your theory of change? And he said, it's an area that not a lot of people have experienced. And we just innately know, at least we think we know how to present a new idea to someone and convince them of it. But if you spend a little bit more time, more like a scientist, and think about what is your perspective on theory, or models of change, it would really help you as an account manager too. So I thought that was a really, really, very unique piece of advice, which I've never heard anyone say, but he's absolutely right here. Because often, we are in a position to present new ideas to clients, which represent a huge change for that client. And there's something called status quo bias, where clients often just want to follow the status quo, they don't want to make big changes. So only by understanding those changes, are we able to address that in our presentation. So I would really urge you to take David's advice up and have a look for yourself, and see if you can come up with a model for your agency.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>16:51</div><div>Tip number seven, this was taken from Episode 20, called 'How to improve the way you work with a marketing director'. We had Sam Bridger on, and Sam again shared some fantastic advice for agencies and agency account managers in how to work better with your clients. And again, a bit like Kate Whitaker, Sam has been in the industry for over 25 years, working with various agencies. And now she works as interim marketing director. And for her, she has to go into a new company, as probably head of marketing, and really hit the ground running. And the first thing she likes to do is to understand how many different agencies the marketing department are dealing with, because she likes to quickly understand who they are, and then bring them all together so that she can benefit from their collective thinking. And again, I thought that was a fantastic piece of advice, that it's beneficial often for your marketing directors, or the people that you're dealing with, to get all of the agencies together. And who thinks about doing that? And her piece of advice was try and find ways yourself to bring the agencies together. And that would be really beneficial and helpful to your clients. So she suggested perhaps run an afternoon workshop, where you all where you invite all the agencies together and talk about an issue that the clients facing maybe in the sector, for example, or with a particular customer, or a particular brand, or whatever it might be. And then she said, do it in the afternoon, have a couple of hours workshopping, and then a couple of hours of going out for a drink maybe and getting to know each other. And she said it really sets the ball rolling, and it demonstrates a way to add value. And that's a great way that the client can see that you're being proactive. So, again, she said, don't be afraid of the competition, because often other agencies you bring together, may be offering something similar to you. She said just embrace it, and use it as an opportunity to come together collectively to give the client the best value. So again, a fantastic tip that you might want to take on board from Sam.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>19:08</div><div>Tip number eight I've chosen from Episode 23. And that was with Simon Barbato, who is the CEO of Mr. B &amp; Friends, and it's called 'How to move from agency employee to agency owner'. Simon started his career in the early 90s. He was actually in client service to start with and quickly moved into a planning role. So his agency now that he went on to form is a very successful, fast growing agency. And he sees the value in the strategic planning role and has a planning department in his agency which is a really key differentiator. And his advice for agency account managers was curiosity is one of the key drivers of great account managers, the ability to show interest, to ask questions, dig deep to unearth the background to a client's business or business problem, for example. And I think all of these things provide a really great canvas in which they can then build creative briefs or build project briefs. So if you don't have that innate ability to drive into the client's business, I think that you'll operate on a very surface level, and therefore probably have a transactional type relationship with your client, rather than a deep relational engagement. So drive into the clients business, dive further into their sector, understand their customer, their market, and where they're going, so that you can be much more informed and provide a lot more value to help them grow their business. So brilliant advice there from Simon.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>20:51</div><div>Tip number nine is taken from Episode 26. With Dr. Laura Janusik, called 'What account managers can learn from the science of listening'. And Laura is a specialist in listening, she has been studying it for years, she has a PhD in communication with a specialisation in listening. And I learned a ton from her chat. And one of the things that she said was listening is a brain based activity. So you can't actually tell if someone is actually listening to you through the what she calls the 'non verbals'. So even if, for example, someone is leaning forward, nodding, smiling, making eye contact, actually, that doesn't mean they're listening to you. And the only way you can tell if someone is listening, is by how they speak, how they respond. Now, why that's important for account managers is the following. She said account managers particularly need to do a lot more listening than they do speaking. So being able to bite their tongue and allow the client to talk. And then doing those things like confirming, which is paraphrasing, and then asking if you're right. So she gave an example, if your client says something, rather than just going on to the next topic, you can say something like so if I heard you correctly, you said this, this and this. Did I get that right? So you're playing back what your client just said to you, or what you think your client just said to you. Because then it gives the client the opportunity to say, well, you almost have it right, but I forgot to say this, for example. And that really does happen quite a lot. Or they can just simply say yes, spot on. You've got it absolutely right. Which is always the ideal, obviously. But if you've paraphrased it wrong, and you've clarified it incorrectly, then that gives them the immediate opportunity to say, Oh, no, no, no, that's not what I meant. What I meant was this. So this is all really good tips for us, as account managers, to make sure that you are playing back to the client, what you believe you've heard that they've just said, because that's the only way we're going to be crystal clear about what the client said, because time is money. If we get that brief wrong, and we go away too quickly, and start working on a proposal that takes two weeks, then that's wasted effort, wasted time, because you don't want to go back to the client with your proposal and they say, well, that's not really what I wanted. So make sure you get super clear from the outset and play back to the client what you think you heard. Brilliant advice from Laura.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>23:36</div><div>Tip number 10. And the final piece of advice was taken from Episode 25, 'How to use the power of surgical empathy with your clients', with Dr. Mark Goulston. This was a fascinating episode for me from someone that I've been following for years. He is just a fantastic fountain of knowledge. And he wrote one of his most popular books called 'Just Listen'. And he said that he uses acronyms in his book to make something easier to remember. And he says you want to be a PAL in conversations. And pal means purposeful, agendaless listening, purposeful, agendaless listening. He says one of the reasons people don't listen is because people have an agenda. So if you've got an agenda in your head, and you go into a meeting, you struggle to really listen, to be really present. And he believes that people are afraid to empathise, particularly in the business world. Because he says if I really find out where the other person's coming from, what's really important to them, what they care about what they really need, and it doesn't match what I'm selling, then I can't sell them what I have. And you know, it's an amazing way of looking at it because if we go in there thinking about what I want them to buy from me, then it clouds our conversation. We're not really listening authentically, and empathising, really openly. So, fantastic piece of advice, go into meetings, and really be present. Listen to what the client is actually telling you. Because like Relationship Audits and Management that go into client situations, they're listening for what's not being said. And often they say that the things that, you're reading between the lines of what the client is actually saying, and in order to do that, you have to stop thinking about your agenda, and be purposeful, agendaless, and listening. So using that acronym to really help you improve your listening skills. So I hope those 10 top tips were useful for you and served as a bit of a reminder for perhaps what you could be doing in your role as an account manager.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>26:02</div><div>A quick reminder if you are interested in knowing who's coming up on the next podcast, and also listening and hearing new tips and advice for agency account managers, then come over to my website, accountmanagementskills.com and sign up for my newsletter. The newsletter goes out every week, or two weeks and I try to include as many tips as I can, new tips that I've learned through listening to someone on the podcast myself, or things that I'm reading and sharing. And also I can let you know forthcoming trainings. So until the next time, have a great week.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/6w2z9z5w.mp3" length="29758610" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/093f74d0-a110-11eb-8418-0761cc934568/093f7750-a110-11eb-a795-176a3107b5c3.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>1487</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Welcome to Episode 27. This is the top 10 tips to be successful in agency account management. And the reason that I'm giving you top 10 tips is because we've now passed 26 episodes on this podcast, and we've had some fantastic guests sharing really, really brilliant advice for agency account managers to up their game, to be more proficient in what they do, and to be much more successful in their role. So I thought what I'd do is reflect back on some of those interviews, and pull out some of the best tips that I think have been shared on the podcast. So this episode is highlighting all of the top tips that are going to help you in your role.

A quick reminder if you are interested in knowing who's coming up on the next podcast, and also listening and hearing new tips and advice for agency account managers, then come over to my website, accountmanagementskills.com and sign up for my newsletter. The newsletter goes out every week, or two weeks, and I try to include as many tips as I can, new tips that I've learned through listening to someone on the podcast myself, or things that I'm reading and sharing. And I can let you know about forthcoming trainings.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Welcome to Episode 27. This is the top 10 tips to be successful in agency account management. And the reason that I'm giving you top 10 tips is because we've now passed 26 episodes on this podcast, and we've had some fantastic guests sharing really, really brilliant advice for agency account managers to up their game, to be more proficient in what they do, and to be much more successful in their role. So I thought what I'd do is reflect back on some of those interviews, and pull out some of the best tips that I think have been shared on the podcast. So this episode is highlighting all of the top tips that are going to help you in your role.

A quick reminder if you are interested in knowing who's coming up on the next podcast, and also listening and hearing new tips and advice for agency account managers, then come over to my website, accountmanagementskills.com and sign up for my newsletter. The newsletter goes out every week, or two weeks, and I try to include as many tips as I can, new tips that I've learned through listening to someone on the podcast myself, or things that I'm reading and sharing. And I can let you know about forthcoming trainings.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>account management</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What account managers can learn about the science of listening, with Dr Laura Janusik</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/2n67l7v8</link>
      <itunes:title>What account managers can learn about the science of listening, with Dr Laura Janusik</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>26</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">j02mlm31</guid>
      <description>This episode is for you, if you're interested in improving your listening. You're going to learn why listening is a strategy and not skill; the only way we can tell if someone's listening to us, which I found really fascinating; some great tips for training yourself to listen better; and also why there are four listening habits, and how you can assess which listening dominance you have, and how that can help you connect better with others. 

I think there are loads of tips here for account managers who are dealing with their clients. And listening is such an important thing to do well. I hope you enjoy the chat with Dr Laura Janusik and you come away with lots of tips and ideas to improve your listening. And I hope that you'll go ahead and take the Echo profile test which Laura mentions, to see which dominance you have and how that can help you in your communication with your clients. A quick reminder also that if you are interested in more tips and ideas for your role in creative agency account management, then come over to my website. It's accountmanagementskills.com, where there are lots of information and resources for agency account managers. I look forward to seeing you on the next one.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Okay, today I'm delighted to speak to <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurajanusikphd/">Dr. Laura Janusik</a>. She is regarded as one of the world's top researchers and educators in the field of listening. She has a PhD in communication with a specialisation in listening and an MBA. Her company <a href="http://www.listeningtochange.com">Listening to Change</a> offers training, coaching and consultancy services for both individuals and teams and organisations to really help them transform by using listening as a strategy. So a very warm welcome Laura.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Thank you, Jenny. I'm very excited to be here.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Not as much as I am!</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I don't know on a scale of one to 10, how excited are you?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Before I ask you to fill in a few of the gaps, listening is the most important skill for any account manager and I've been wanting to get an expert in the field of listening. So I am absolutely thrilled and delighted to dive into these questions, because I know you're going to deliver so much value. So on that note, would you mind spending a couple of minutes just filling in some of the gaps about you, your background and also why you decided to spend so long studying listening?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>That's a great question. Where I am currently right now is I'm leveraging my over 20 years in academia, to bring listening to a more general audience. Specifically, through coaching and training. The way that I got into listening was purely by accident. To be honest with you, I had a career that I call, I was a millennial before millennials were born, which is a way of saying that I've had a number of different careers in my past. I was in human resources for a number of years. And I did all the different areas of human resources for about 12 to 15 years. And I sold some things and just did many, many different things. But when I was in my early 30s, I decided to go to graduate school to get my master's degree because I wasn't feeling that I was as smart as my friends. And I wanted to feel smarter. I decided to major in communication. And what I had wanted to do at that point Jenny, was just develop interpersonal curriculum for companies. They paired me with a world leading expert in listening, Andrew Wolvin, as my advisor, and I told him within the first two to three weeks of meeting him that I was not going to become a listening person. I didn't know what a listening person was, but it didn't sound like something I would want to be. And he was very gracious, he said, Laurie, you can be whatever you want to be. So fast forward, I'm entering my final semester of my master's programme. And I thought, you know what, he's going to be writing my letters of recommendation, I should show a little bit of interest in his passion. So I signed up for his listening course. And within two weeks, it totally changed my life. I thought this is what listening is, why don't people understand what listening is, it is so important. And there's so much more research out there that needs to be done, that I totally changed my career trajectory and decided to stay on to get my PhD so I could really focus in listening and help build the research in that area. So I didn't choose listening as much as the universe chose listening for me.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Can you remember back during those two weeks? What was the crux thing that you leart that really shifted you from interpersonal curriculum to, I'm going to specialise in listening?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I do totally remember that Jenny. He had us read an article that was about listening processes, and listening models and it included, probably about eight different listening models. And I did not understand that listening was a process or listening could be modelled until I read that article. And I thought, you mean there's more to listening than just sitting there looking like you were listening! You know, there are actually these steps that go on in our brain. And prior to that I had never really thought about listening as being a brain based activity. It was just something we did kind of like breathing. You didn't have to understand the intricacies of it because your body just did it anyway. But in listening our body doesn't always just do it anyway, of course. And that's one of the things I think that we begin to stumble upon and go, wow, I'm not such a great listener after all.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>To that last point, why do you think we all think that we don't need any listening training? Because we're great listeners?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think there are a couple of reasons. Number one, because we're born with the ability to listen. And number two, I think that, well I know that, most elementary schools and Junior High's and High Schools do not cover listening as an area to be learned. So if we don't have to learn about something in K through 12, we generally don't think it's important because if it were important enough, it would be in the curriculum somewhere. And until we start unpacking what something really is, we just don't think that it's important because we're doing it already. And we're doing it at a certain level. But we could do it so much better, if we understood it.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>How can you tell if someone's listening to you or not?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, the crux is you can't really. You can't tell by looking at them. This is always the piece of information that really blows people's minds. There is absolutely no non verbal that we associate with listening, like eye contact, head nodding, body leaning. None of those things correlate in any way, shape, or form with what's going on in our brain. Listening is really about understanding or making meaning. That's the goal, or crux of listening. And that all takes place in our brain. And even though I can look in your eyes, I can't see past them to your brain, to really see the words that are going on in there to know if you're listening to me or not. So what we often do in communication is we perceive listening behaviorally. So we do look for the eye contact, we do look for the head nods. And when we get those symbols from people, those nonverbal behaviours, then we make the assumption that they were listening to us. However, it's a very dangerous assumption, because as you well know, we've all learned how to 'fake listen'. We learned that in school too, on our own. We wanted to look really interested and we looked like we were taking notes, but we were actually writing a letter to a friend. Or we established eye contact, because we knew that the teacher or professor would expect that, but we were actually thinking about the party that we would be attending on Saturday. And to complicate this even more Jenny, is cultures have different acceptable listening behaviours. So every listening behaviour that we can think of is actually a cultural norm. And those norms vary from culture to culture. So to give you an example, there are two cultures where when you nod your head up and down, that actually means No. And when you shake it side to side, that means Yes. Can you imagine going to that culture, because I'm in the opposite culture, that the head nod is Yes and the shake is No. So I would go to that culture and I would be reading those nonverbals absolutely, incorrectly. And I would be thinking, when they were shaking their head, oh they don't like this at all, but maybe they were trying to show me that they liked it. So we have to be so careful with those things.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>That is so fascinating. Can I ask you, because in my past, in my youth, I spent years working in Greece, and I don't know if that's actually one of the countries but actually, when they say no, they kind of lean their head back, you know.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So you totally get this right. You it's because you've actually seen it. And what was your perception of that when you were there?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I thought he was quite rude because they tut at the same time. This is not everybody, but there is this, you know, like that. It means no. So cultural differences, isn't it? It's just getting used to it.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It is and we oftentimes think that people who do things different than us, in those nonverbal ways, are rude and they're not being rude. They're being very appropriate to their culture, and we're the ones being rude because we didn't learn their culture well enough to communicate with people appropriately within it.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I'm just thinking of my audience now, account managers, you know, maybe many of them are working on global accounts, and therefore are dealing with different cultures. So this is a good topic to kind of understand. But thinking more about, so you can't tell if someone's really listening?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>You can't tell through the nonverbals. You have to listen to how they're responding. Are they responding on topic to you? Are they asking you questions on topic? Are they doing those strategies like confirming, to show that they actually understand or not? So that's the only way you can really tell if somebody has listened to you. And if you've created shared meaning with them.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So that's really important for account managers to realise isn't it, that if I want my clients to know that I'm actually listening, then repeat back what they've just said or clarify or ask continuous questions on the topic?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yes, exactly. And account managers particularly need to do a lot more listening than they do speaking. So being able to bite their tongue and allow the client to talk, and then doing those things like confirming, which is paraphrasing, and then somehow asking if you're right. So Jenny, if I heard you correctly, you said this, this, this and that, did I get that right? Because then it gives the client the opportunity to go, 'Oh, well, you almost have it right but I forgot to say this'. And oftentimes that happens. Or, 'Yes, you have it, right'. Which is always the ideal or, 'No, no, that's not what I meant when I said that, this is what I actually meant'. And all of those are equally valuable.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Very valuable. You just mentioned biting your tongue. I remember you mentioned that to me when we were planning this podcast. Tell me a bit about that because I think that's a fantastic tip.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah. In the UK, and in the United States, it seems like the average time between speakers is about a half a seconds, so point five seconds. What I recommend that we do as listeners is after the other person finishes speaking, so the client finishes speaking, I recommend that an account manager bite their tongue for a minimum of three seconds. When you bite your tongue, there's that physical sensation so you know you can't speak. It's a little bit awkward in the beginning, but it does keep you from speaking. And what I know about both of those cultures is people become a little bit more uncomfortable with silence. And so they like to fill the silence. And that is a strategy then to get the client to speak more. Because as an account manager, I know what I know. But I don't know if what my company can provide is really exactly what this client needs or wants. And I need to get as much information from that client as I can to make sure that we are match. So the more information I can get through them talking, the better off we're both going to be.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>A slight side note, but to that point, is there some kind of science behind how someone feels when they are speaking?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Ask that in a different way so I understand that better.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Okay. So the rule of thumb, and I agree that we want to get the client speaking 70% of the time because they have the insight really, it's our job to uncover it. And so listening and asking really great questions. And I think in general, people like to talk about themselves, don't they? They enjoy sharing, many, or would you disagree with that?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I agree with your qualifier, many people enjoy talking about themselves. There are different types of people in terms of how much they feel sharing, in terms of personal lives, or particularly when they're in a sales type information they don't want to give too much, it's almost like going to a fortune teller. You don't want to give too much because you don't trust that this person is really a fortune teller. And so you don't want to give the account manager too much information because then they will just tell you what you want to hear. So I think that we do sometimes have people like that. But the brain research in terms of the neuroscience does talk about our brain synchronising together And when we can speak and listen in a way that, so it's called dialogic listening, so you speak in a way that the other can listen to you and you listen in a way so the other can speak to you. Then our brains synchronise more so and when we have more synchrony, there's more understanding, and there's more likeability. And the really interesting thing to me is, there's also an element of agreement. So, we can listen to people that we disagree with, but still synchronise with them. So what I often say is, it's our job to listen to understand, not to respond. And understanding doesn't mean agreement. I can understand somebody who's at the opposite political end of the spectrum than I'm at. I can understand and not agree with them, but I can understand them.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Fascinating. What else did you learn through your research that really stood out for you? What other surprises did you find?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think one of the big ones, I was one of those women who went into it thinking that women were much better listeners than men were. And you're shaking your head thinking? Well, there's a caveat here. So, from a brain perspective, the comprehension, the amount of understanding, there is no significant difference between men and women. However, there is a significant difference in those nonverbal behaviours that we like to attribute to listening, like the head nodding and the body orientation. So women significantly show more of those behaviours than men do, which is why women get the perception of being better listeners.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Fascinating. That is fascinating, that's another one that I'm going to be re-quoting.&nbsp; Now something that you said, that has really stuck with me, is that you call listening a strategy, not a skill. I think that's a genius thing to say. What made you say that? Why is that true?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>The more I got into the listening research, the more I understood that we had different goals and could have different goals with how we listened. And many of us understand this implicitly, because we have learned to shift the way we listen in different contexts. So for example, how I listen at work might be very different than how I listen at home or how I listen with my friends. And so I'm listening for different things, and to different things, depending upon the context. I'm sorry, I started talking there, and I forgot the question!</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>No, it's fine. The strategy, the fact that...</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>The strategy. So it goes back to what do I want to get out of this interaction, because if I can identify what I'm listening to and for, then there's a goal involved, and I have a much better chance of meeting that goal, if I've identified that goal. But if I haven't identified that goal, then I listen habitually for what I always listen for. And I might not get what I needed out of that conversation. Or I might think that it was a useless conversation, when in actuality it was because I was not listening appropriately.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Now, this also speaks to helping account managers go into client interactions. Because what happens in our world Laura, sometimes it's quite difficult to get airtime with the client, because they're busy doing a million other things. And actually, the one thing that we're working on for them is a small part of their day. So we want to make sure that small part of their day actually, is significant. So it's kind of a little bit of a performance. So when we turn up, it's good practice to, prepare, have a pre-meeting plan. And actually, what you've just suggested is a good strategy for account managing in general, to kind of pre think about what are the questions that I want to ask? Or what are the answers that I need to gather from this client interaction that are going to be most helpful? And does that form part of your training as well?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yes, it does. And Jenny, what you're also speaking to, well, two things actually. Number one, an account manager is actually, I guess I would view an account manager more as a liaison. So this is the person who is the point central between the client and between the creatives. And it's quite likely that the way that both of those groups of people process information in their brains is very different. Creatives process information, and habitually are thinking creatively...?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Creatively.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>That's the word, I could not find that one, yes creatively! Where as, as you said, with a potential client, their meeting with the account manager is a very small part of their day, and they're doing all of these other things as well. So they're not necessarily in the habit of meeting with account managers on a routine basis. And so being this liaison between the two, and understanding that they may be approaching you with a way of listening that works more effectively for them within their organisation, but doesn't necessarily work for this conversation. Because it gets into the four listening habits, which have been identified in the research that was published early last year, in March of last year actually, that identified not only listening as a habit, and that is really important, because a habit is something we do routinely, but we can change. And how can we change it? They have found that there are four different, I like to use the analogy of a strainer, ways that we strain information or filter information. And how we filter information really talks about what we're listening to and what we're listening for. So we can listen connectively for people, and how information is going to affect people. We can listen and strain through reflective, which is our past experience, asking questions like, 'Have I ever been in a situation like this before? Have I ever seen an ad like this before? How did it turn out? You know, what didn't work about that?' We can listen analytically and analytically is all about the details of today. So I'm going to be thinking and asking questions like, 'Well, my deadline is this, can you meet this deadline? And here's my budget, are you going to stay within my budget?' So those types of questions. Or we can think and filter through conceptual, which is the possibilities of tomorrow and beyond? So the what ifs, so I just have the big idea or the big picture. And I don't really want to nail it down now because I want to explore all of the other possibilities before I nail anything down.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So these are the four listening habits?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Correct.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And do we all fall into one of these default habits that we do mostly?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yes. And I say that with a little bit of hesitance because people can have more than one dominant habit. And since listening is a habit, we can choose different habits in different context. And that's where I think the whole listening is a strategy and not a skill. Understanding how to adjust what we're listening to and what we're listening for, based on the context, is really important because then it increases the chance of us getting what we need or want. And identifying how the client is listening. There's evidence that how we think, how we listen and how we speak are all connected. I can't see your brain so I can't see how you think, I can't see how you're listening. But I can listen to how you speak. And if I can really understand how you're speaking, then I can understand how you're thinking and listening, which means as an account manager, I can better align my communication to yours to give you what you want and need more quickly. So we can then cover other things as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Wow. So is the ideal scenario to go into a client interaction as an account manager, identify the client's listening habits and adjust our approach accordingly? Or is it to anticipate what this interaction requires from us and go in with our listening habit that's most conducive to the context? I don't know if I've overcomplicated it!</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, no, no, you've asked a great question. The more we get educated in this, the more I would say we could do both. So for example, if I am going in, because I know that I'm going to be presenting a proposal, and I'm going to ideally get a signature on the bottom line there, then I know what my goal is. And I know that that goal is going to require some analytical thinking and listening and speaking, because we've got bottom line numbers here. However, there are some listeners who might be listening conceptually, who don't focus as much on the bottom line. But the possibilities, what's this going to make me look like in the future? Is this going to be a slam dunk for me? Is this going to help me climb the corporate ladder if I can land this account? So those are the conceptual what ifs of the future. And so both and there is, I need to go in and get this signed, because it's potentially a big contract for me. However, I need to be able to assess what the client needs to hear as well before the client will sign because I need to speak into what the client needs to hear before the client will sign.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>You gave me an assessment to do before we spoke. Is that assessment assessing what habit you kind of tend to have when it comes to listening?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>The Echo Profile which you took, asked you to think of a particular context. And so within that context, that's primarily how you think then.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Okay. Because I'm thinking for account managers now, how valuable it would be if we were to give that test to our clients and take the test ourselves!</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah. You may or may not get your client to be able to take it. But if you take it yourself, and you get just a little bit of training and listening, then you're better able to identify what the client's thinking and listening style might be, based on listening to how they speak.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Amazing. Go on Laura.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I was going to say, so your results, Jenny....</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I don't know whether I want to listen!&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Go ahead. Do you have your results handy?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>No, I didn't find the results.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Oh, you don't have them? Oh, I apologise to you. Actually, do you want to take a break for a second? Because I can go grab them?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Okay, so I've taken your your test Laura, and you're sharing with me the results. And I see that you have Connective, Reflective, Analytical, and Conceptual. And you've gone straight to this slide to show the dominance. So can you talk us through what you can see. Just generally when you approach this.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yes, and you are a fascinating profile.There are 41 different profiles that exist. You are an Experimenter, it's called, which means that you have a triple dominance Jenny! You are triple dominant in Connective, which is the people and how things affect people. Analytical - the details, and Conceptual the big picture and possibilities of the future. Where you were relatively low would be Reflective. So that's learning from your past experience or bringing your past experience into things. So what this suggests is when you listen as a triple dominant, you actually do a really nice job. The only thing that you might want to do to improve if you want all of these four cylinders firing at the same time so to speak, is take a little note card in with you that says, 'What about my past experiences'. So just bringing in your past experiences to something. But as a triple dominant, that is minimal work compared to somebody who might be single dominant. So for example, I've seen people who are single dominant in Analytical, and they didn't understand, they hated to go in and small talk, because they just did not understand the value of small talk with a client. But if you're speaking with a potential client who is highly Connective, they are totally into that small talk. So small talking is an avenue of respect that you have to approach further. If the client is highly connected, and you're highly analytical, if you go in there and give deadlines and budgets and details like that, that's not what they're interested in at all. They're interested in how this solution is going to feel to the people who are using it. How are they going to like it? How is it making their lives better? So they're looking for those types of things. How does it solve the problems that they're currently having, as opposed to how much it cost or when it could be built by. So you're not aligning your communication well, but once you get a little bit of education in these four different habits, then you can assess by listening to the client or the potential client, you can assess what their style might be, and then begin speaking into that style. So for example, I was saying that I did coach an individual who is just highly Analytical. And what I had to help this client do, was really learn how to small talk, first of all, potentially, when he was with Connective possibilities, but also how to assess what the other person is. And then I have a little cheat sheet of different questions and statements that align with each of these four, and really worked with this client to be able to remember to ask questions like this, as opposed to the questions that he just felt most comfortable with being Analytical.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>This is so fundamental, because the the account managers job really, is to build that rapport. And what you're talking about here is adapting your communication style to be more conducive to the client style, so that you build that rapport. Because ultimately, people like to do business with people like themselves. And and you're absolutely right, if you have someone with Analytical dominance and that the client wants to small talk, then that's going to be a struggle. And even more so, if they're lacking awareness, I mean, at least the individual that you were coaching, has gone through this test to understand that.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yes, and did some some private coaching with me, and just felt so different afterwards. He understood his wife much better because his wife's dominance was not Analytical! So yeah, there are just so many transformations that occur with just a couple hours of education in this.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I mean, it's a natural question about, this is an Echo Listening test, is this something that you have developed? Or you're an ambassador for this programme? How? And also, how can people do it? Because I'm sure a lot of account managers are kind of leaning in right now thinking, wow, I want to know what I have here.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>This is magic. It really is magic. And I align this with listening intelligence, because the more we recognise about listening, the better off we can be with it, and use it. I did not have a hand in developing the Echo Listening profile, though some of my research does support it. So research builds upon research. So some of my research is reflected in the development of it, of which I'm very proud. But one needs to be a certified listening ambassador guide to the Echo, and I am a certified practitioner in this. So any of your individuals, if they're interested could reach out to me through my website Listening to Change, and I could order them a profile and then do a reading with them. Another thing that I have coming out that might be of interest to account managers, particularly at an entry level point, is I'm doing an online course for the 10 listening tips for leaders. And that will include this Echo Listening profile as well. And that will be a link from my website within the next month.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Amazing. That sounds fantastic. We'll include the links in the notes Laura for sure. Cheeky question? Can you share one tip or any more tips that you think account managers could benefit from?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Sure, sure, actually, I will give you three of my favourite. So two of them, I think I've already given you. The first one is biting your tongue for at least three seconds. And then to add on to that after that three seconds, if the client has not broken the silence, then you want to ask a question such as, 'What else?' or, 'Can you tell me more about that?' So a question that would continue the client speaking and continue you gaining that helpful information? The second skill is that skill of confirming, (and confirming again, is paraphrasing plus somehow asking if you're right), if I understood you correctly, you said this, this this and that. Did I get that right? And the third potential skill. I think actually the third potential skill that would be most powerful, most useful for account managers, because they're the liaisons between people is really learning these four listening dominances, learning how to speak into each of the dominances and learning how to assess others dominances by how they speak.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think this will be hugely powerful. And given that it's always quoted as the most important skill for an account manager, I think it's worth the time investing in understanding because, speak to me about some of the results that you've had Laura, from working with organisations, individuals, like, it's certainly going to transform, but could you maybe give a couple of examples of how you've seen the impact of doing this training?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yes, absolutely. One of my favourite ideal clients is actually working with small companies. And I just had the pleasure of working with a small company in Kansas of the United States that had 24 employees. And they're a relatively new company and they're very proud of their company culture. And it sounds like I'm going away but I'm really going to bring this all back. When you think about culture Jenny, culture occurs because of repeated patterns of something. That's how we create culture. So whether we talk about culture from a larger, 'We're going to celebrate this holiday. And this is what we do with these holidays', to family cultures, to company cultures. And they wanted to become a culture that was known for listening. And so I took them through approximately 10 hours of training together. And not only did we get into a lot of what I call listening solutions, the verbal listening skills that you can do, but we actually identified different places within their company, where they could implement these solutions on a routine basis. So that any new employee entering the culture, entered recognising that they're supposed to do these skills, because everybody around them were doing these skills. So it was a way to enculturate the new people into the skills. So in terms of transforming a company, they're in the process of very much transforming because they're implementing listening in so many of the different routine areas of their company. So I have a very specific example on this. At the end of every meeting, when they're making decisions, they go through that cheat sheet that I had mentioned before that asks the 12 different questions, three in each of these areas, to make sure that they haven't left out any of these areas, because there's no guarantee that the people in that meeting are going to represent all four areas. So it's really important to continually ask yourself if you're representing all of those areas. I also worked with a female who was, she was promoted to be a communication manager at a company. And she was now at the leadership level and definitely not quite as confident as the other leaders who were there, she was the only female leader. And so not only did we work on some of the gender differences, but we worked on the listening differences, and were able to identify the different dominances of the other leaders in the company, and develop the different types of questions and statements she could use with them individually and in group. And the perception of her then, in the other's eyes, just grew exponentially, which of course, gave her much more confidence in what she was doing as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Wow. Sorry, go on.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And then there are other times there are just, there are the 'Ah ha's' that individuals have, when they find that they have been the square peg in the round hole, so to speak. So I love working with groups. And when I do a group profile, we can see what everybody's dominance is. And sometimes you see there's only one Analytical person and the rest are Connective conceptual, which could happen a lot, particularly in the very creative fields like marketing and sales, particularly marketing there. And so that person who is Analytical who has always felt like the odd person, and everybody else has treated that person as the odd person, because said person is the one always saying, 'But what's the budget? We're not going to get this done in that deadline'. And everybody else is just, you know, having fun brainstorming, they recognise the value that this analytical person is really bringing to them, because he or she is bringing information that they hadn't considered. And that analytical person can then value more the Connective conceptual. And it also gives them a way to talk about what's happening in the room, and what should be happening in the room. So let's all put our conceptual hats on right now, we're not going to worry about anything analytical, no details here. But let's brainstorm for the next five minutes, you know, or now we need to get really analytical because we have to talk about whether we have the funds to be able to build this better mousetrap. And we have to talk about whether we're going to be able to get it done by the clients deadline here. So it gives us a different way to talk about what we're doing. And that talking about it then changes the way that we do it in our brains. And it takes us back to that synchrony, which is part of collective intelligence for the group.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Absolutely fascinating. For so many different benefits, you know, because up until this point we've been discussing how it affected the client and the account manager and the confidence levels and the rapport building. But actually, there's a huge piece here about internal efficiencies, culture, people working and gelling together, understanding one another, feeling part of it, being perceived as more effective or feeling more, you know, efficient and effective. So, there's just no end to the benefits really, is there? I just think this is so, it's should be part of everybody's training actually.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I definitely would agree with you. I would love to take this back to primary education, really start listening there. But since we haven't, yes, this is a way for people to have a superpower.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And you're absolutely right, that it isn't taught in schools. And perhaps that's the mission, isn't it? That's where we should be starting all of this and this awareness. Wow. This has been absolutely fascinating. Laura. There was one other thing that you shared with me that I would love to just mention before we finish, which is the different cultures again. You mentioned in the States, there's a general kind of half a second pause between conversations, but you also gave examples of other areas of the world where it was up to six or seven.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Can you talk to us about that?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Sure. So the three examples that I like to use, The States - which is approximately a half a second between speakers, and then we've got some of the Asian cultures where there's up to seven to eight seconds between speakers. And then we have the Italian culture and the New York Jewish culture, where there is no time between speakers because the speakers are actually overlapping each other, interrupting each other. And the interesting element to all of this, is the reason that all of the cultures do it differently, is that's how they show respect in their culture. So in the Asian culture, I am going to pause for seven to eight seconds to show you that i'm really considering and honouring the information that you've shared with me and think about it before I respond to it but in the Italian culture where they're actually interrupting each other, which you know would be extremely rude to other cultures, the reason that it's respectful there is because it shows that you want to co-create the conversation with them. You want to create the story together. So with account managers who are working with clients from around the world, definitely understanding how respect is shown in the culture through simple things like pauses or non pauses is really important.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I wish I'd taken your training before I went to live in Spain for three years because I used to have to excuse myself from dinner parties and go and sit in the other room because my head was exploding! And you know in hindsight, it was the difference in how they communicate, everyone talks at once and you know! So this is absolutely fascinating. Laura thank you so much for coming on. I think this has opened up so much possibility for account managers. I think it's lovely to know that there is a tool that they can capitalise on to help them get better at listening. So can you just tell us the best way of reaching you and ideally, who would you like to be contacted by?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>The best way to reach me is either through my website Listening to Change, and there's a place where you can actually then link to me on there and send me a question. So you can do it that way, or you can link with me on LinkedIn, so it's laurajanusik. And then my ideal client? Individuals who are interested in improving their individual listening. Teams - so whether it's the team leader or somebody on the team. I love to help teams better align their communication and understand this, not only to work more productively internally but work more efficiently with external stakeholders as well. And then I love working with small companies to help build their culture to be a listening culture.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Amazing. Okay, fantastic. We'll include all of those links Laura and once again I really appreciate you coming on. Thank you so much for your time.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Thanks Jenny, it was my pleasure, very much.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2021 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/28kj4jnw.mp3" length="55358087" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/9a94d1a0-9bb0-11eb-9ce2-6992f75efe52/9a94d2d0-9bb0-11eb-9889-1b8ff5debe7f.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2767</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>This episode is for you, if you're interested in improving your listening. You're going to learn why listening is a strategy and not skill; the only way we can tell if someone's listening to us, which I found really fascinating; some great tips for training yourself to listen better; and also why there are four listening habits, and how you can assess which listening dominance you have, and how that can help you connect better with others. 

I think there are loads of tips here for account managers who are dealing with their clients. And listening is such an important thing to do well. I hope you enjoy the chat with Dr Laura Janusik and you come away with lots of tips and ideas to improve your listening. And I hope that you'll go ahead and take the Echo profile test which Laura mentions, to see which dominance you have and how that can help you in your communication with your clients. A quick reminder also that if you are interested in more tips and ideas for your role in creative agency account management, then come over to my website. It's accountmanagementskills.com, where there are lots of information and resources for agency account managers. I look forward to seeing you on the next one.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>This episode is for you, if you're interested in improving your listening. You're going to learn why listening is a strategy and not skill; the only way we can tell if someone's listening to us, which I found really fascinating; some great tips for training yourself to listen better; and also why there are four listening habits, and how you can assess which listening dominance you have, and how that can help you connect better with others. 

I think there are loads of tips here for account managers who are dealing with their clients. And listening is such an important thing to do well. I hope you enjoy the chat with Dr Laura Janusik and you come away with lots of tips and ideas to improve your listening. And I hope that you'll go ahead and take the Echo profile test which Laura mentions, to see which dominance you have and how that can help you in your communication with your clients. A quick reminder also that if you are interested in more tips and ideas for your role in creative agency account management, then come over to my website. It's accountmanagementskills.com, where there are lots of information and resources for agency account managers. I look forward to seeing you on the next one.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to use the power of 'surgical empathy' with your clients, with Dr Mark Goulston</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/lnq9rv5n</link>
      <itunes:title>How to use the power of 'surgical empathy' with your clients, with Dr Mark Goulston</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>25</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">81nljr31</guid>
      <description>This episode's for you if you are looking to create more rapport with your clients and build trust. Dr Mark Goulston explains why empathy is so powerful and why people are afraid to empathise in business.

He talked about how you can get your clients to trust you and you'll be asking yourself are you a plus-er or a minus-er or a topper?

I hope you enjoy the chat with Mark and come away with a few ideas for how you could perhaps empathise more with your clients.

If you would like to receive a weekly newsletter with tips for account managers and sound bites from podcasts, and news and events then come over to my website accountmanagementskills.com and you can sign up to receive a weekly newsletter.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:</strong><br><br></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, today, I'm absolutely thrilled that Dr. Mark Goulston has joined me. He is a very sought after business advisor, consultant, coach, speaker and psychiatrist. He has such an impressive background. He's the author of several best selling books including 'Just Listen', that I'm holding in my hand here, and in the background with Mark, 'Talking to Crazy' and 'Real Influence' and 'Get Out Of Your Own Way', all bestselling books. He hosts the extremely popular podcast 'My Wake Up Call with Dr. Mark Goulston', where he's interviewed some prominent figures like radio and TV host, Larry King, leadership guru, Ken Blanchard. He's also a regular LinkedIn live host called 'No Strings Attached' and he's written for Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, Business Insider, Huffington Post, Psychology Today and many more. He's the inventor of Surgical Empathy and this is a process for getting through to anyone, by going to their psychological core, and unlocking what's holding them back. He was a UCLA professor of psychiatry for over 25 years, and a former FBI and police hostage negotiation trainer. So I'm honoured to have him on the show today. I'm very grateful to Marcus Cauchi, our mutual friend who's put us in contact. Mark, welcome to the show.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Mark &nbsp;</strong></div><div>That's a lot to live up to.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It certainly is very impressive Mark! Can you help me fill in some gaps there? Tell me a bit more about yourself in your own words, and how you became an expert in listening and getting through to others?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Mark &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, I think it started because after my training, I was really fortunate, I trained at UCLA in psychiatry, and I had a mentor who was one of the pioneers in the area of suicide prevention, a fella named Dr. Ed Shneidman. And if you look him up, you'll see&nbsp; they're almost synonymous. And he was a main referral source for me when I started out. And something that was my good fortune is that I had applied for a fellowship and just before I finished training, the fellowship was cancelled. So I just shrugged my shoulders thought, well, I'll go out there and see if anyone will come and see me. But I had the good fortune because when I would be with patients, yes I had a protocol, but I didn't necessarily have to report to anyone. And what I noticed in my suicidal patients, and I had a fair number of them because Dr. Schneider would refer them to me is, I learned to not just look into their eyes, but listen into their eyes. And increasingly, I got this feeling that what they were saying in their eyes is you're checking boxes, and I'm running out of time. And if you look basically, if you have a loved one, or a teenager or a spouse, and you look into their eyes, they're all screaming out, this hurts so much I can't take it anymore. But what happens is they scare people. And what I realised is when I was checking boxes, it was really a way to protect myself. And what I realised is if I listened into their eyes, if they couldn't come to me, I had to go to where they were. So I'll share one anecdote, which really was one of many, but this was probably the most dramatic one. When I was early in my practice, I used to moonlight at a psychiatric hospital, which means I'd cover for other psychiatrists. Over the weekend I'd meet patients, I'd go up to the wards and I'd medicate and I'd write prescriptions. But sometimes you'd be awake for 24/36 hours and so on one weekend that happened and on a Monday I came in to my office to see someone, I'll call Nancy. Nancy had made three or four suicide attempts before I was seeing her. She'd been in the hospital at times one month, two months, back then you could stay in the hospital a long time. And I'd been seeing her for six months and I didn't think I was helping her. She'd come in, that was the longest she'd gone without an attempt or hospitalisation, but when she'd come into the office, if you're me, this would be Nancy. She wasn't exactly catatonic, but she was disconnected. So on this Monday, after not sleeping, there's Nancy, you know, characteristic pose, and I'm looking out of the room and all the colour turns to black and white. So I'm looking at a room and it's black and white and I thought well, this is interesting. And then I got these chills, and I got cold. And I thought I'm having a stroke or a seizure. So I'm a medical doctor, I'm a psychiatrist. So it wasn't rude, because she was looking at me, so I did a neurologic exam on myself. So I'm going like this, I'm looking at my fingers, I'm tapping my elbows, I'm going to see if I'm having a stroke or a seizure. And then I realised I wasn't. And then I had this crazy idea that I was looking out at the world through her eyes. And that the world felt black and white and cold to her. So I just leaned into it. And the more I leaned into it, the worse it got. And because I was sleep deprived, I blurted something out, that normally I wouldn't. I said, Nancy, I didn't know it was so bad. And I can't help you kill yourself. But if you do, I will still think well of you. I'll miss you. And maybe I'll understand why you had to to get out of the pain. And I thought, did I think that? Or did I say that? And I thought I just gave her permission. I thought I just blew it. And then she hesitantly looked at me. And then she grabbed on to my eyes. I mean, she grabbed onto my eyes with her eyes. And I thought she was going to say, 'Thank you, I'm overdue'. And I said, 'What are you thinking?' And she looked at me, and she said, 'If you can really understand why I might have to kill myself to get out of my pain, maybe I won't need to'. And then the colour came back. The coldness went away. And I kept looking into her eyes. And I said, 'I'll tell you what we're going to do. I'm not going to give you treatments, and programmes that you've already been through unless you ask for them. Because if I give you all those things, you'll nod politely, and then you won't do them. And you'll come back and you'll tell me, you weren't able to do them? Would that be okay?' And she kept looking at me with a look that said, 'Keep talking. Keep talking, I'm intrigued'. And I said, 'What I'm going to do instead is, I'm going to find you wherever you are. And I'm going to keep you company there. Because you've been there alone, too long at the worst times. Would that be okay?' And then her eyes started to tear up. And she started to heal. So you'd mentioned something called Surgical Empathy. And I just gave you an example of kind of what it looks like and what it feels like. And here's something I discovered about suicide. And if you're watching or listening in, you might relate to this, and other people don't get it. Death is compassionate to psychological pain that's unbearable. So death is compassionate to hopelessness, that won't go away. Which is why people who are feeling hopeless, helpless, worthless, useless, they attach to death as something to take the pain away. And what I've discovered with Surgical Empathy, what I did with Nancy, and what I'm now training people around the world to do, is if they can feel 'felt by' you, and if you've read my book, just listen, you'll know it's about how do you get people to feel 'felt by', it's great to feel understood versus misunderstood. But boy, when someone feels 'felt', and they feel safe, they lean into it, because they don't feel safe or felt by anyone. And so, I think what happens with Surgical Empathy, is they let go of death as the way to relieve their pain, and they grab on to feeling 'felt'. So is any of this making any sense because you've been so patiently listening to me.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I'm very conscious, because I'm reading the book, Mark I want to pick up on a couple of things. You say that you blurted it out. For me, in that moment, it obviously came very naturally to you what you needed to do with her to make that change, and obviously it impacted hugely, and that was a turning point for her. And I'm sure probably the first time that anyone's spoken to her like that. That she felt 'felt'. So that was the first thing that I kind of picked up on. I also want to tell you that I've been listening to a lot of other podcasts. I've watched your LinkedIn Live, and you have this way, with your voice, that it's very soothing. And I actually felt quite emotional listening to your voice. So does that have a part to play when you want to get through to someone?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Mark &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Absolutely, in fact, something I will share with you and your viewers and listeners. I do a a version of mediation and conflict resolution that uses Surgical Empathy. And tell me if you can picture this? Picture a group of people, a group of executives or Board of Directors, and I actually developed this working with couples who just hated each other. So picture this, there is a group or a couple individuals, they're in conflict. And what I do with them, is I will say, 'Pick three topics that you can't talk about without getting into an argument, that need to be talked about and resolved'. So they can usually come up with those. And then I'll say, kind of tongue in cheek, 'Well, it looks like we have agreement. We have agreement that you can't talk about those without arguing and that's a good start'. And I make sure, 'Are we in agreement that those three topics need to be resolved?' And&nbsp; they say 'Yes', they say, 'Great'. Now, would you also agree that when people are talking to and with people, we are making progress towards resolving those problems? Would you agree, when people are talking to and with each other? Yes. Would you also agree that when anyone is talking over, down or at another person, the progress stops. And what happens is, whoever you're talking over, down or at at, starts to tense up, and starts to want to react? Would you agree to that? Most people agree with that. And I say, great. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to pick those topics that you can't talk about. And I'm going to ask you, you parties, show me the way you need to talk about it so we can solve it. And that means show me how to talk to and with each other. And at the first sign someone is talking over, down or at another person, I'm going to call a timeout, because progress has stopped. And I'm going to take that person into another room, or if it's a Zoom&nbsp; we'll do a breakout session, and I'm going to find out what's going on with that person. You know, and I'm going to talk them down from DEFCON 1 to DEFCON 5. And often they'll vent, but I'll let them vent,&nbsp; and I'll say 'What's really going on? Now I understand that. But what's really going on? Why does it so matter to you that you have to get your way, and you can't agree?' And so they open up and they open up. And then I will coach them. I'll say, 'So show me when you go back, the way you want to talk about it so you don't push people away. Because, do you think the way you're talking about it is going to make anyone want to agree with you? Even if you're right, who's going to want to agree with that? You know, you're reminding people of their abusive mom or their abusive dad, no one's gonna want to agree with you. So let's practice that'. And then we'll give it a try and do the best you can. Because you know, if you get agitated, I'll bring you back here and we'll refine it. We have all day. But can you see that approach?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I love the approach. It's the 'how' isn't it? It's having agreement upfront, 'how' are we going to address it? And over, at or down, that's the rules. So I love that because everyone understands the rules, and then they can self regulate, can't they, or maybe? So I love that. Why do you think that we are so bad at listening, and yet everyone thinks they're great listeners? Because the story you described before, with the suicidal lady, was, you were first of all listening enough. And then you started meeting her where she was, empathising. So why do you think, we all think we're good listeners, but really, we're not.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Mark &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, one of my favourite quotes comes from a British psychoanalyst named Wilfred Bion. And he talked about listening and one of his quotes, and I think he was talking about presence. And basically his quote was, 'The purest form of listening is to listen without memory or desire'. Because when you listen with memory, you have an old agenda that you're trying to plug the person into. When you listen with desire, you have a present or future agenda that you're trying to plug them into. But in either case, are you listening to where they're coming from, or their agenda? And in my book, Just Listen, I use a bunch of acronyms to make something easier to remember, and I say you want to be a PAL in conversations. And PAL stands for Purposeful, Agendaless, Listening. Purposeful, Agendaless, Listening. And I think one of the reasons people don't listen is because most people have an agenda. I wrote a blog on why people are afraid to empathise, especially in the business world. And one of the reasons people are afraid to empathise in the business world is, if I really find out where the other person's coming from, what's really important to them, what they care about, what they really need, and it doesn't match what I'm selling, if I'm going to be really showing that I'm of service, and I care about them, they're not going to buy what I have. So I'm afraid to empathise and bring up something that means I can't sell them what I have. But the problem is, if you're forceful, you maybe can push something through to someone who's intimidated by that. But, boy, if it doesn't work out, or they feel that you've sold them too hard, you're not going to win many friends or influence too many people.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>No, and I completely agree with you. I mean, my audience is principally those managing client relationships on a day to day basis. It's their job, first and foremost, to listen to the client to understand their needs, their business challenges, their problems. And whilst they don't have a selling agenda, it's certainly an agenda in their minds to want to help. How can I add value to this relationship? Regardless whether it's with my products and services, or maybe, I could introduce them to someone in my network, or provide a piece of information that they will find useful, any trend or market insight? So what advice would you give to those account managers that are managing those client relationships, that are going into a client meeting, trying not to have a specific agenda, but being really present? Do you think, I mean this is the feedback that I get, is in order to do that proficiently, you have to be flexible, and sometimes account managers lack the confidence to go in there without some set questions or some set agenda of some type. So what advice would you give to those maybe who are in that position?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Mark &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, here's something I'll share with you. Five of my books are bestsellers, pretty big bestsellers in Russia. And about a year and a half ago, I gave a presentation along with a Nobel Prize winner named Daniel Kahneman, he wrote a book called Thinking Fast and Slow, and it was he and a fella named Joseph Pine, who wrote I think The Experience Economy. Great people, and we all headlined. And my talk to about 1000 Russian managers, probably account managers, leaders, a whole bunch of people, the title of my talk was 'Change everything you know about communication'. And what I said to them, and there's actually a video clip, (I'll send that to you, if you want to add a link to it), I said to the audience, if I focus on what you're listening to, you're listening to me. And if I respond by giving you a bunch of bullet points, you will write them down. You'll try some of them. Most of them won't work. You'll say it'll work for him, he's an expert. Maybe one or two will work. But if I have good stories, and I am a good communicator, you'll give me your mind for now. And they're looking at me like I'm a little bit crazy. Maybe I am a little bit. And then I switched the tone of my voice. So they heard my tone, even though I was translated into Russian in real time. And I said, but if instead of focusing on what you're listening to, and you're giving me your mind for an hour, if I focused on what you're listening for. And I got it right, without you telling me and I delivered on it. You'll give me everything. And then I said, 'This is what I do, when I make presentations to some of your listeners or their companies, because it's often the same three questions. Let me see if I get what you're listening for. You're listening for something that will get you better, measurable results. Because that's what you're judged on is measurable results. And if you get better ones, you might get a promotion or a raise. And what you're also listening for is a way to get those results, that's less stressful, and more effective, because the way you're doing it now is stressful. You're all drinking too much. Your people are drinking too much. It's really out of control. And I asked them, 'Is that true? And he went 'Da, da'. And then I said, 'And I think what you're most listening for, is that I can give you tips that are tactics that are immediately doable by you. And you don't have to buy a book because I haven't written this book yet. Still haven't. And there's no course that I'm trying to sell you into. So you're listening for tips and tactics that I can give you to accomplish that, so you can get better measurable results that are less stressful. And if we do that, it will be worth the more than $500 in a day of your time that you gave to be here. Is that true? And they went 'Da da'. I said, Come on, sit down, sit down, calm down. But that was focusing on what they were listening for. So if you're an account manager, and you get a sense that the other person is smiling, but it's not a Yes, they're being polite. They're smiling. They may not want to say they don't understand what you're talking about because you're using too much jargon. They're just smiling politely. But if you're more of a seasoned account manager, you'll know that smile is not a yes. It's trying to be polite, because they've checked out. They just haven't gotten up and left. And then at the end you might say, 'Do you have any questions?' And they might say, 'No, no, I think I heard what you say' or and then you might get anxious, well, 'Can I share some of the other things we're doing?' and that's really going to drive them away even more. And, and so here's a tactic and tip that you can use from our podcast today. So picture that scenario, you're talking to them, and they're smiling, but you can tell they're not engaged. And what you say to them is, 'I'd like to pause for a minute'. And they're gonna wake up because it's like you called on the kid in the back of the class who was sleeping, 'What, what what?' I'd like to pause from it. And then you say, 'I went to the beginning of our conversation'. And you're listening, because they've never heard this before. They'll go 'Ha'. 'I went to the beginning of our conversation. And it was kind of like this. You came here looking for something and whatever, I came here wanting to sell you something. And you were looking for and listening for something that we haven't covered? And can you tell me what it was when you came here, when you were listening for something or looking for something that we haven't covered? Because we have a little time left. And we might be able to address it. If I can't handle it, yeah, there may be people I know who can help you.'</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Excellent question.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Mark &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And so you get them to open up. And what you then want to do is get them from being withdrawn into riveted in attachment to you. And then when they tell you whatever it is, you say 'I'm so glad you said that. I wish we had started with that at the beginning. Can you tell me why that's important to you?' And then they're opening up further. And you said, 'Oh, I'm so glad you're telling me that it all makes sense.' Then here's a question. You have to get advanced in this to be comfortable. I'm comfortable with it. But I'm a psychiatrist. And the next question is 'Jeez, you've told me what you were listening for why it's important, you know, between you and me, what's really going on? And they're going to go, 'What?' And then you say, 'Yeah, between you and me, why are we doing this? Because you and I have much more in common than either of us have with our CEOs. Our CEOs, they go to another company, they're going to get a parachute. You and I just trying to make a living. I'm trying to sell stuff, you have to buy stuff, that doesn't backfire. We're like, we're peers. So what's really going on?' And they may pause, but they've never heard a conversation like this, they're going to be intrigued. And then you say, 'Can I share with you the answer I get from other people in your position?' They're going to be curious. And then you say, 'I don't know if you can relate to this, but I've spoken to others, and when they opened up to me, and it was clear that we were peers, both of us just trying to make a living, more than a couple of them have said, 'I need a win'. And when I've asked them, 'Wha't does that mean?' They said, 'You know, you get paid for selling things. I get paid according to my judgement and what I buy. And I bought some things that didn't really work out and my boss kind of questioned my judgement. What I need are some wins, where my boss doesn't question my judgement'. And then what I suggest to people, and you may lose the sale, but within a relationship for life what I'd suggest you say to the person is, 'Let's forget what I'm selling. Tell me not only what a wind would look like, tell me what would cause your boss to get a promotion and then give you one? What? Think of what's going to get your boss a promotion, or a raise. And if you're instrumental in helping them get a promotion or raise in there, someone who shares their good fortune, they're going to give one to you. So let's brainstorm what that might be.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Mark, this is this is gold, it really is. I mean, a lot of what you've just said, it's about breaking down those barriers, isn't it? And you can see when you when you play out that scenario, the depth of connection that you would then establish with the client. And I feel that more and more I'm seeing account managers communicating with their clients, through email, for example. Too much through email, and not enough verbal. Obviously, we're in a remote working situation currently, but still on video and on telephone. I don't know why they don't approach conversations more in that in that way? And I suppose on going back to confidence levels, and whether that's experience, confidence or worrying about the outcome? Are there any tips or strategies you can share around how you would overcome the internal, maybe dialogue you have? You know, they're not interested in that. How dare you speak to them like that, that kind of voice?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Mark &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I live truly to be of service to other people. I don't sell anything. And when I'm with people, they quickly realise that I am here to help them be as successful, have the best life possible. And, I'm not about money. And I'll tell you what happens, at least in my stratosphere, but it's taken years to develop this kind of trust from people. I've discovered that when you give value, true value to people who are very wealthy, and you don't hit on them for anything, they appreciate you because they were able to lower their guard because you weren't grabbing at them. And then they'll come back because I don't ask for anything. And they'll say, how can I compensate you? And something that I learned from my good friend Marshall Goldsmith, a big executive coach in the world, is well, you can pay me what you think it's worth. Or you can donate to a foundation that I'm connected to stop teen suicides? It's up to you. I understand when you're young, I can't do that, I got to get my numbers, and I'm not at that level. But I'm throwing a lob into your future about what you might evolve into.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>That's really good advice. And your point of coming 100% from service is a good philosophy no matter what level of experience you have, isn't it? Because if you go in there with the agenda lists, no agenda, and just think I want to help, how can I help? And then you're fixed on solving the client's problem, to understand it first, and then think about how you can help. I think that's a general good philosophy, to put your mindset into more of a kind of structured and focused way.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Mark &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Why I'll tell you something, you know, we hear this term, the Imposter Syndrome. And what I've noticed is social workers, nurses, most doctors don't have the Imposter Syndrome. Because they're not selling something to their patients. They're trying to get them well, they have this higher calling. And I think the Imposter Syndrome in business, is if you're selling something, you know you have to get your numbers. And so down deep, you know, I care more about getting my numbers than really being of service to them. And so I'm an Imposter because when I say the words, and when I say some of these lines, which if I hear it again, I'm going to tell the person lose the line, 'What keeps you up at night?' I think that's a line that has come and gone. And what happens is people see through it that you've one to some training that teaches you to ask certain questions, that sound like you care when you don't. And I'll share something with you that I used to call the Miracle on 34th Street Sale. So some years ago, I would meet with people and sometimes it would take me, sometimes I would fly to meet them, or take me several hours to drive there, and pretty quickly, I would focus on what's truly important to them, and critical to their success. And then when we surface that I would sometimes say to these prospects, I'd say my advice to you is don't hire me or buy my product or service. This is after taking three hours to get there and they go 'What?'&nbsp; I said, I just focused on what will get you a raise or make you successful. And there's at least two or three things that come to mind for me, and they're not what I do, and they're not my product or service. But I know two or three people. Now, if you don't have them internally, I know two or three people, you know, you probably should talk to and get those things taken care of. And an account manager said, 'Let me get this straight. You drove all the way here. We had a pretty good conversation. And I might have hired you and you told me not to hire you'. And I said 'That's right'. He said, 'Why did you do that?' I said 'Because as I got a clear idea of what would get you a promotion or a raise, but I realised you needed to do other stuff before you use me. And I just sold you on something much, much bigger than my service or product'. And he said, 'What's that?' 'I just sold you on a unicorn. I just sold you on trusting me. Which means I can call you back at any time as I continue to be focused on your success and come up with things that might help it'.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Lovely, that's such good advice. And I think it's really sort of setting the tone for what's going to make you successful in an account management role. Really. You describe in the book, the four levels of talking and listening, which I thought was a lovely way to understand the different levels. Do you mind spending a couple of minutes talking about that part?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Mark &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Sure. When we're in a conversation with another person, we can talk over them, at them, to them or with them. Over, at, to or with. And the way you know you're speaking to them is when you talk over them, they're insulted. If I gave a talk to a group and they weren't martyrs, and there was a break and I was talking over all of them, if there's a break in the middle of my talk, they shouldn't come back and hear the rest of it. If you're talking at them, people will either be scared, and they'll hunker down because you're reminding them of some bully in their life, or they'll stick their chin out at you, like, you can talk at me that way. If you're talking to them, they'll nod, this is business as usual, you've addressed their needs, and it looks like it's gonna go forward. But the gold standard is when you talk with them. And when you talk with them, you'll see that they relax their shoulders, because they can lower their guard and they feel safe. And it's when you talk with people, that things get done, as we mentioned earlier about the mediation approach of talking to and with, people lean towards each other. I'll share another exercise, which you haven't heard about. I've been rather busy and in COVID I've written two books. So one of them. One of them is called 'Why cope when you can heal?' about how to heal from trauma and not just recover from it. And the second one, which is coming out tomorrow is called 'Trauma to Triumph, a roadmap for leading through disruption and thriving on the other side'. And in that book, I talked about the huva technique. And if you practice this once a day, with one conversation that you want to go well, if you practice it for a week and make it a habit, it will change all your relationships. And you've done a very good job, by the way. So Hoover stands for, what you do is you have a conversation with someone. And afterwards you rate yourself from their point of view, on a scale of one to 10. One being lousy, 10 being great. H - is from their point of view, how much did they feel heard out by you? Did you interrupt them? Did you try to top them? Did you try to one up them? How much do they feel heard out? U - How much did they feel understood? In the way you show you understood them as you ask them say more about that. You're curious about what they're saying? V - How much did they feel that you value what they said? They remark and they see the application of it and how it could be valuable. And then A - is how much do they feel you added value to what they said. And I will tell you, you get a 10, 10, 10, 10 score.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Thank you.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Mark &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Beacause I felt heard out. These are not short answers and you're letting me go. I felt understood by you. Because you dipped in and you made sense of what I was saying back from me and your viewers and listeners. I certainly felt valued by what you said. And then you certainly added value by being able to pause and genuinely see the application of it. So you got a good score.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Thank you so much. Coming from you, that's massive praise for me. Thank you so much. I want to pick up on the You. You said, 'I rate myself on being understood'.&nbsp; Did I say things like, 'Tell me more about that. What else? What else?' I'm finding, Mark, that when I have, personally have conversations sometimes, say for example, I say, 'Oh, I went to Greece on holiday last year'. The person I'm speaking to said, 'I went to Greece as well. And we went here and we went to this taverna and it was great'. And all of a sudden, I'm talking about their holiday. Now, I've used this example, but I'm sure the person that wants to empathise with me and say, 'Me too. I went to Greece'. But can you give us maybe...</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Mark &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So what's happening is, I was fortunate, I've had eight mentors. Unfortunately, they've all died. The last one was Larry King. I had breakfast with him for two years before COVID every morning with a group of our breakfast group. And I was a student of Larry King. And he was just busy being Larry King. He's an incredibly curious person. And I said, 'Larry, I just discovered your magic', because I like to deconstruct how people do things so other people can do it. I said, 'Larry, when you do interviews, you're a plus-er,&nbsp; you're not a minus-er and you're not a topper. So you're plus-er, meaning you're always adding to what the other person's saying, not your own personal anything. You don't give opinions. You don't give advice, but you're always having them go deeper. You're very curious. And that's a way of being a plus-er. So why did you do that? Why the green hair. Without judgement, you do it without judgement. 'You shot a lot of kids, why did you do that?' No judgement. And you're not a minus-er. You don't jump down their throat. You don't hit them with a gotcha. So people love to be interviewed by Larry King, and you're not a topper. And see, what you were mentioning is, you'll say, 'I went to Greece'. And someone else will say, 'Oh, we did, too and we saw all the islands plus we took a cruise and we made it over to such and such'. So that's being a topper. And so that's another exercise you can ask yourself. Was I a plus-er? Which is valuing and adding value? Was I a plus-er? Or was I a minus-er? Or was I a topper?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I love how you create models for everything. I do that too. And I think it's a way for everyone to remember these things, these principles. So thank you for this. This is amazing. I've been taking a million notes. Mark, tell me in your career, what has touched you the most? Because you've helped, I mean, literally hundreds and hundreds of people throughout your life. Can you talk to us about a scenario where it really has impacted you personally the most. Getting through to someone?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Mark &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, I think I shared this scenario with Nancy. I mean, that was kind of a watershed thing. I knew it was helpful, listening into people's eyes. But I listened into her heart, which which had grown cold from depression and suicide. But I'll tell you, there is a backstory. One of the things that caused me to look into people's eyes, and I'll share this story and then we're probably going to have to start to close it up, I got it back to back interviews here. But before Nancy, I remembered when I was in training, I was called to see a patient who had been put into restraints. And I was called to okay the restraints on their arms and legs and put them on anti-psychotic medication because they were pulling at their IVs, they pulled at a respirator too, but that was on them. And they were kicking. And the doctor said, 'Just go up there and okay the order'. So I go up there, we'll call him Mr. Jones, and I go into the room, and he can't talk because he has a tube in his throat. He's going 'Ah, ah, ah', and I said, 'What is it?' and his eyes are like saucers. And I said, 'What is it?' And they said, 'He's just psychotic'. And I kept talking, and I gave him a pencil to write something and his hands were tied down. And he just scribbled. And I thought, well, maybe they're right. And I said, 'Look, you're pulling at the IVs, you're kicking, you're pulling at the respirator, and we had to put your arms and legs down. And I'm going to give you something to help you sleep. And then when when you're rested, we'll take everything off'. So a day later, the doctors page me and they said 'Mr. Jones is up, he's sitting in bed, he's off the respirator. And he told us to page you'. So I go into his room. And he looked into my eyes. And he said, 'Pull up a chair'. So I pull up a chair. And then he kept looking at me and he said, 'What I was trying to tell you, is that a piece of the respirator tubing was broken and was stuck in my throat. And you do know that I will kill myself before I go through that again. Do you understand me?' My eyes just watered up. And I said 'I'm so sorry. So sorry. I understand'. So it's events like that, that caused me to say I've to do more than checkboxes and make sure I'm asking all the appropriate questions. And what I've shared with you, when you're talking to an account manager, and it doesn't look like it's going well, my version for you who are listening in, they're listening for and looking for something that you haven't covered. And so give them the chance to bring it up.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Love it. Thank you so much. Honestly, Mark, this has been revelatory and absolutely so valuable for people out there thinking about evaluating how well they are listening and getting through to other people. So I want to be respectful of your time. How can people reach you Mark and learn more about you and read your books? What's the best place to go?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Mark &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, if you go to Amazon, you'll see I have nine books there now, so you have Amazon UK. If you go to markgoulston.com, I blog a lot and I'm just sort of a content maniac. I have a podcast called 'My Wakeup Call' (wakeups one word), and I speak to thought leaders, change agents from around the world. I spoke with Margaret Heffernan. She's in the UK. She's one of the top TEDx speakers. She was wonderful. And then I have something on LinkedIn called 'No Strings Attached', where I interview my guests, and I say, 'Just give nuggets and tips with no strings attached, that meet these criteria for my viewers and listeners. I never would have thought of that. That could work. I could do that today'.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Such a lovely concept. Honestly, I'm going to include all of those links in the podcast notes. So Mark, thank you again so much. I'm absolutely honoured that you came on. And I've really, really enjoyed it. You've had me riveted for an hour now. So thank you so much.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Mark &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, well, you could sell HUVA vacuum cleaners - HUVA. You did a great job. Thank you.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Honestly, that was amazing.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 06 Apr 2021 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/r8jk4ypw.mp3" length="51480993" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/526f1cb0-93c1-11eb-8df7-69fa954105c6/526f1de0-93c1-11eb-a2c5-25eca27ede2d.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2573</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>This episode's for you if you are looking to create more rapport with your clients and build trust. Dr Mark Goulston explains why empathy is so powerful and why people are afraid to empathise in business.

He talked about how you can get your clients to trust you and you'll be asking yourself are you a plus-er or a minus-er or a topper?

I hope you enjoy the chat with Mark and come away with a few ideas for how you could perhaps empathise more with your clients.

If you would like to receive a weekly newsletter with tips for account managers and sound bites from podcasts, and news and events then come over to my website accountmanagementskills.com and you can sign up to receive a weekly newsletter.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>This episode's for you if you are looking to create more rapport with your clients and build trust. Dr Mark Goulston explains why empathy is so powerful and why people are afraid to empathise in business.

He talked about how you can get your clients to trust you and you'll be asking yourself are you a plus-er or a minus-er or a topper?

I hope you enjoy the chat with Mark and come away with a few ideas for how you could perhaps empathise more with your clients.

If you would like to receive a weekly newsletter with tips for account managers and sound bites from podcasts, and news and events then come over to my website accountmanagementskills.com and you can sign up to receive a weekly newsletter.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>An agency leader's guide to account management, with David C Baker</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/18pjy4q8</link>
      <itunes:title>An agency leader's guide to account management, with David C Baker</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>24</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
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      <description>Today's episode was a real treat. For me, I have the pleasure of talking to David C. Baker, who is a legend in the agency world. We discussed everything to do with account management, including why David thinks the account management role is the most difficult role in the whole agency. Also the problem with account managers doing project management tasks, where he sees performance deficiencies in account management, and some brilliant advice for how to address those deficiencies, and also up your account management game. Why he suggests agencies asked their clients to take personality profile tests, why account management don't receive guidance from agency owners, and so many more topics. I really enjoyed this chat, and I know you're going to come away with some value.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>I hope you come away with lots of new ideas about the account management role. Now if you are an account manager, and you want to raise your value,&nbsp; increase your confidence, improve your consultancy skills, and grow your existing accounts, then come and join me at the Account Accelerator Programme. The next one starts on 15th April. It's for three months, and I take your agency from unpredictable project revenue to more predictable account growth. If you want some more details, please contact me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant or drop me an email at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com. I'll see you on the next episode.<br><br><strong>Transcript:<br><br>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>So, I'm beyond thrilled today to have David C. Baker with me today. David is a leading authority on positioning, reinventing and selling firms in the creative and digital space. He's author of five books, including <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Business-Expertise-Entrepreneurial-Experts-Convert/dp/1605440604">The Business of Expertise</a>, a book Dan Pink described as essential reading for entrepreneurs in any space. And he's considered the experts expert. David describes himself as part researcher, part scientist and part educator. He's advised over 900 agencies and co hosts probably one of the most well known podcasts in the agency world <a href="https://2bobs.com/">2Bobs </a>with Blair Enns. He also happens to be a lifetime member of Mensa which is incredible. I'm honoured to have him on the show today to talk about everything to do with account management. So David, a big warm welcome.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Thank you, it's really good to be here. Account management, now 80% of the people just left, except for the day to day- they tune in to you because of account management, right? But if anybody else said that we're going talk about account management today, zoom, everybody's gone!<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>That is so true! I know that you've written a lot about this. I'm a massive fan, I've followed your work for a long time. And I know that you have a really strong point of view on many things. And I often find myself listening to your podcast, and kind of nodding and saying, yes, so there were several where I just felt, 'Yes, David's actually said things that I've been thinking'. So I'm so excited about this interview. So, would you mind by starting off by, I know you are a legend in the industry, so many people know you. But just giving a little bit more detail about how you work with agencies.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Sure. So I had my own firm for, I can't remember, it was five or six years. And through a strange set of circumstances, I started advising my peers. And so, I do that, I've worked in 30 countries. I only work with the smaller, independent firms. So, I don't work for the ones that are a part of holding companies and so on. And now I only help them with how to make better business decisions around their positioning, around staffing, merger, acquisition, succession stuff. I'm not qualified to help them do better work, there's lots of good help for that. So one of the strange, I never would have predicted this, but one of the strange areas where they seem to really soak up whatever sort of insight I and others can give, is around roles, particularly account management and project management. So, when you invited me to come on your podcast, I was eager to do that, because I just think it's such an interesting topic. To me it is and it should be more interesting to other people. But it's also so much more relevant than some of the things that we spend a lot of time worrying about. In other words, your clients will notice poor account management long before they notice work that isn't up to your standards. But we focus on the work more than we focus on how it's delivered and how we lead clients. So that's sort of why this is important to me.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>You've described the agency account management role as the most difficult job in the agency. Can you tell me a bit more about why you think that?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Yeah, and the last thing they need is a bigger head, right! So, account management people are strange, power hungry, very persuasive. The last thing they need is to hear that, but it's true, because it's the only role, well, I guess the principal has a little bit of this, but it's the only role where they have one foot firmly planted on both sides of the fence. I think of it as sort of like an ambassador, but it's even worse. So if I'm the US ambassador to China, then my allegiance is to the US. But I still have to see things through China's eyes. But then an account person has to be a lot more balanced than that. They can't give away the firm, but they have to be the clients advocate within the agency. And so that's why it's the most, I don't think it's the most important role, I think that's a PM, but I think it's the most difficult role for sure. And it's very few people who can do that role well. Let me just insert something, this strikes me every time I say this, I think, if somebody else were saying this, I'm not sure I would believe it, and it's that, everybody who is a great account person, is a failed something else. That's because you don't go to school to be an account person. You don't.&nbsp; And nobody says when I grow up, I want to be an account person. They always went to school for something else. We know that because there is no schooling, I mean there's training and so on, but there's no schooling for it like formal schooling. So they've tried something else and discovered that they were really good at account management and they adopted that life. So it's strange, it's so important and yet we don't have a formal educational track for it. Isn't that strange, like we do for design and advertising?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>It's so true. And what do you think are those magic skills that an account manager discovers that they're good at?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Listening for sure. I think that's really critical. The ability to push back on a client without causing unnecessary offence. So, I think of it as sending a client to hell and helping them enjoy the trip, so to speak. So we're not losing the client, but we're definitely communicating something that needs to be said. I think also, the ability to grow an account, which I'm sure we'll talk more about at some point. So the client will have questions and you try to answer them, and then you ask questions. But the ability to ask really smart questions is, I don't think anybody is better at that than account people. Those would be probably the core skills, I think. And there are some core skills that don't exist in account people. That's great organisation, it's very rare to find a great account person who doesn't also need somebody following around behind them to clean up the mess, just honestly.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>You made me chuckle with this. What do you think the problem is with expecting account managers to also do the project management role? Because when I work with agency account managers, they come to me with the title of account manager, but actually what they're doing is this hybrid role of managing projects and having to grow the account.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Right? Well, part of the challenge there is simply ability to do both of those things. And this was a complete surprise to me in that when I was doing research around this, in the early 2000s, I wanted to see if there was a pattern, a personality profile pattern, that match certain roles at firms. And I started out because I had a conference in San Francisco for 50 creative directors. And I thought, all right, I have all these victims in one place, I'll just give them all this personality profile. And there was no pattern whatsoever. And it was kind of an expensive process, it cost me about 4000 bucks. So I thought, well, I'll just drop this, or maybe I should try one more thing. And I had an event coming up in Dallas with 40 account people. And I decided to give them all a personality profile again. And the difference was staggeringly different. I think it was 85/ 86%, whatever, that almost all, but two or three people, had the same personality profile. And that personality profile was not, it didn't indicate strengths around organisation, or objectivity, or process orientation. What it indicated was an ability to communicate well, to know where to push back, to take a relationship over forcefully to lead it. So, there are some people, maybe 20% of account people who are really good at PMing as well. But in most cases, what makes you a great AM, makes you a pretty terrible PM. To take this a little bit further, when you have an AM who's functioning in the role of a PM, often things get dropped, that's kind of obvious, but they also have a propensity to give away too much of the shop because they get lost in this desire to make the client happy, sometimes at the expense of the firm. And that's where that role gets a little bit weird where they're trying to straddle both sides of the fence. So when you have an AM doing a PM role, sometimes the work isn't as organised or buttoned up. And also they need the PM to be a balancing force so that we don't give away too much to the client.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>I'm nodding because this is so true, and I think it's going to come as a really big food for thought for many agency owners who are actually thinking about this role. So, I mean, what happens for an agency that has the PM leading that client relationship?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>And that's particularly true with newer firms that are more slanted towards digital work for sure. But what happens there is two things. And the first could happen at any point and it tends to happen sooner rather than later. And that's that a PM will miss some cues that maybe the relationship is slightly off course. Their focus is on competence and objectivity and delivery, and they don't read some of the signals that the client is needing a slightly different treatment, they need a little bit more coddling and so on, a little bit more wrapped in relationship, that's the first thing that happens. The second thing that happens, and this doesn't show up for quite a while, it could be a year or a year and a half, but it's that the client typically doesn't grow as much as it could have if it was being managed by an AM. So a PMs perspective is to do great work and to not mess up. It's not to take risks and grow the account. The account person's job, the way they view it, is to constantly take risks and see what else we could do for the client. Not in a way that is a misuse of client funds, but like they just see opportunity in there. And&nbsp; they're not worried about messing up from time to time, because they have enough confidence in their abilities to sort of save the account, and most of the time, that actually does happen. But they have this outlook of always wanting to grow an account. So that's what happens when you have a PM, functioning as an AM, is that they miss some personal cues sometimes, and in other cases, they don't grow the account. I want to mention, though, that we can't just rely on the fact that somebody is called a PM or an AM because people use those phrases. There are a lot of people called PMs who are actually functioning as AMs. And the opposite is true as well, there's quite a bit of confusion in this space I think.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>I agree, absolutely. I agree. Was there anything in your findings, in your research, to show that the pure account manager enjoyed more the client interactions? Because sometimes when I've met the role of an account manager, but actually it's a PM role, they like to be very transactional, I've done that tick off the list. They're not the ones that naturally want to speak to the client or engage as much. Have you found anything in your research to show that that's true?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Yes, it's absolutely true. And in DISC language, that's the personality profile that I use, that would be somebody typically, with a low 'I'. They don't need a lot of social interaction to be satisfied. And what they're doing is motivated by a genuine desire to serve and please the client, but they don't see the need for all of the relationship side, to them that's inefficient, and it's also not all that welcome. It takes energy for them to do that. Whereas the best account people are not always energetically from a relationship standpoint. What they do is they are really good at seeing how the individual client on the other end of the line wants to be interacted with. And then they adapt their style to that. So if the client prefers a brief email with two choices, that's what they get. If they prefer a long lunch or a drink to discuss a tough topic, then that's what they do. Relationship driven people are really good at seeing what other folks need and want and they deliver in that way. Somebody with a PM profile will default to less relationship management. Now the best ones can adapt a little bit, but they find it exhausting to have to pretend to be like an AM when in their hearts, they're PMs.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>I just love this so much. During COVID, you ran multiple free webinars, and I know you attracted hundreds and hundreds of people from the agency space. During those webinars, you advised firms to keep the AMs and PMs and flex with the skill players. Can you tell me a little bit more about why you why you advise that?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Yeah, it doesn't make sense on the surface. It doesn't seem obvious to me that that would be the right thing to do. It seems to me like we're in the business of doing advertising or creative or digital. So we got to keep those people and that the AMs and PMs are sort of redundant. And I don't believe that at all. I think that the core in American football, we call it role players and skill players. So the role players in this example are AMs PMs, and in some cases some strategists and also new business people. Those are the ones that make the core of your firm. And if that strikes you as odd, it's because you don't believe that that contribution is as billable as the other things, but like I said before, clients notice deficiencies in AMing and PMing long before they notice deficiencies in the work. They also won't notice much in their experience if you're working with a contractor who's a writer, as opposed to an account person who is a writer. So the core staff, the people that are with you all the time, the ones that they get used to are the AM and the PM roles, and then new business and in some cases strategy. And then all the skill players are the ones that you can assemble for a particular team at a certain time. Ideally, I think a client wants all those people full time and on staff. But when that's not possible, it's better to flex with the skill players and not the role players.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Lovely, thank you for explaining that. So when you start working with an agency, where do you typically see deficiencies in the performance of the account management team?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Well, it always starts with having the right people in those seats. So if you're working with a firm, and they don't believe in account management, and this comes because they worked at an agency, for instance, and they wondered what they did, and they called them suits, and they thought they just needed expense accounts and ate up the budget. Right? That's a perspective that still lingers in this field. And it's, and that's because it, there are a lot of cases where that's actually true. So in that world, they diminish the role of an account manager, and they don't have one, that's one thing I see frequently. Another thing I think I see, and this just blows my mind, is the occasional firm where they don't think account management or project management is billable. Really, that's crazy. And there were a couple firms in the US, especially around the packaging side, where their clients wouldn't allow them to charge for it. So they discharged $400 an hour for design or something right, and those days are gone. I'm talking about modern firms who don't think that it's billable, or they just tack on some percentage on top of it. The other that I see, is assigning PMs to AMs and in that scenario, AMs are more powerful and persuasive. And so the PMs don't typically have as much power as they need in those relationships. And so the AM is sort of ordering the PM around and in my world AMs and PMs are exactly equivalent and need to create this healthy joint tension. Another area I see pretty frequently is, and this one makes me really angry honestly, and it's that we don't see separate career paths for PMs and AMs. Instead, we think that you start out as kind of an assistant to an AM, and then eventually, maybe we'll let you talk with a client every once in a while. And then when you're really good, you get to talk with a client. And that just diminishes the role of PMs. I think PMs are just as important as AMs and their career paths are completely different because, now you may start out as a PM and discover that wasn't the right fit for you and you bounce to an AM or vice versa, but the roles and the personalities and the outlooks are very different. That's one thing I see very frequently.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Where do you see it working really well? Have you got an example of where you've witnessed a PM and AM working seamlessly together? Because this is something that often a lot of people talk to me about, how do we actually establish roles and responsibilities? And who's going to speak to the client, who's going to lead the meeting? Where does one stop, start and the other one finish, etc.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>I think the aim should be the primary interface with the client all the time. Not because we're trying to protect the client from anybody else. In fact, the PM should be the primary backup contact and we're not trying to keep the PM from interfacing with the client at all, it's fine. But nothing should happen with the client that the AM doesn't know about. That's one of the basic ways to divide labour. I think one of the things that I'm hoping that people will get, is how to work better together and to create sort of that healthy tension. 30 years ago, before I was in the advisory business, I remember I won't mention his name but he used to say this all the time, that, and this was before there was much research about what made a great PM, and he would say, if you like your PM, you've got the wrong one. That's what he would say. And the idea was, that the very best PMs are sort of like taxi cab dispatchers, they're short, abrupt, to the point, matter of fact, and to some extent they are, but in the best scenarios, the AMs feel like, I could never get my job done without great PMs behind me. And PMs are so grateful that they're not AMs because that's not what they want to do. So there's this healthy tension that comes about between them. But it's not just about AMs and PMs working really well together, there are other systemic issues that can get in the way. So for instance, if you have an AM, who's having to manage a lot of accounts, they can't give the right attention to that, they can't be expected to grow those. I found that kind of the ideal number is one to four, one to five accounts. Or if, the salespeople are consistently delivering clients who are not a great fit, who don't trust the firm, they aren't spending enough money, they can't corral the decision makers, then as an AM you can't be responsible for those results, right. So it really is a picture of teamwork all working together. And, moving the firm forward, together, I have a lot of respect for both AMs and PMs. But I would say that, between those two, the one that needs more respect in our field than they get now is the PM side. The AM's are going to be okay on their own. They amass respect, that's part of what makes them good at what they do. The PMs don't, they're labouring in the background doing great work. And we notice them when something fails, but we don't necessarily notice something when things are great.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Have you seen evidence of how it affects a PM then, if they're not given the right attention, or they're not being recognised? What have you seen from firms that have that scenario playing out?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Well, fortunately, PMs are often self motivated. And they're going to do a great job regardless until they just leave the firm. AM's get their feelings hurt, and you'll know if they're unhappy, right, a PM will just keep doing their job! But if you're going to stand out in this marketplace, first of all you've got to have a really brilliant positioning that sets you apart, I'm just assuming that, but after that, once you land a client, what clients really notice is brilliant account management and brilliant PMing, and the better, you can manage that with both of those branches, then the better off you'll be, it'll really give you a leg up in the marketplace.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>I've got a little side question. You mentioned the sales team earlier on. Just curious, in your experience, where have you seen a good pass-over between the sales team and the account management team? Where do you see that?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>A lot sooner than it is?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>I was expecting you were going to say that!<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>This is such a mistake we make. So I view sales, not marketing, but sales as essentially assessing fit, and answering objections, and so on and setting the table. Once it looks like that prospect is going to begin working with the firm, then sales continue, but those sales are led by the account person. So the account person needs to be introduced very early in the process. If you don't do that, then these are the problems that occur. One is that the client will get attached or will bond with the salesperson who needs to leave the cave and go kill something else and drag it back. They can't afford to get dragged into being the account person. So that's one problem. The second problem is you don't want to count people to feel like they're inheriting all these promises that a salesperson made, right? It's just resentful. And a salesperson has no incentive not to make crazy promises just to close an account, right. And the third reason is that we really want to let the salesperson focus on what they're great at. So I'm a firm believer in introducing an account person very early in the process, and they actually close the first project with the client. And then the salesperson should never be seen by the client again. Now the only time you have a salesperson who feels obligated to insert themselves into the relationship is if the account person is not a capable seller or grower of that account, in which case they have to rely on the salesperson. That's a fault with the AM. That's not the way sales should work. Sales should only be about new business, not existing business.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Thank you. I'm sure a lot of agency leaders listening to this, we'll be thinking about that. That's great advice. And so, something that I read on one of your blogs, you said that you suggest agencies ask their clients to take a personality test, which I think is absolute genius idea. Can you tell me a bit more about that?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Yeah. And if there's any qualms about it, you just give them yours and say, 'Hey, we're really big at this firm in trying to match up how we work with you based on what you prefer'. And so I don't know you well enough to know what those preferences are. But if you would be interested in taking this, then I'd love to set you up. And you might enjoy it. Here's mine, if you want to look it over and see what it says, And invariably, they'll take it. And then they'll say, 'Hey, could I get one of those for my partner too, I mean life partner...' And then there's lots of fun discussion. But even if you don't want to do that, there are some very simple two question sort of quizzes that you can ask yourself without ever talking to them to see what kind of personality profile they are. That way you'll know how to manage conflict, you'll know how to be efficient, but also give them the attention that they want. Are they somebody who likes to be in charge, and they want to have options? Is it somebody who wants to see all the details? Or maybe it's somebody who wants to see all the process step by step? Or it could be somebody that just wants to be inspired? You know, so it's important to understand how each client is different, and then treat them differently. You're not in the service business, you're in the expertise business, but there isn't any reason to not make the process as smooth as possible for clients, to whatever extent you can.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>You mentioned earlier on that you use the DISC profile, do you recommend that one for clients as well? Is that your go to recommendation?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>It's not the most accurate one, the most accurate one is Kolbe or PI. But DISC is very accessible and inexpensive. It's where I did most of my research. There's some other pretty good ones too, like Myers Briggs, Indra. There's five or six that are really, very accurate scientifically, the rest are kind of not. But even some of those will be sort of useful, if nothing else it will be interesting.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Great, okay, thank you for that. So one of the observations that I've made from training account managers, is the lack of coaching and guidance from the agency leadership team. Can you tell me if you've experienced the same?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Yeah, I have. And I would say, it's not just a failure in coaching, it's that they just don't know what they're doing. You know, they don't have anything to add to it right? That's not something that's common across all successful principals. The only thing that's common across all successful principals is that they are risk takers. Some of them are great account people, and a lot of them are not. They feel like, in the early days that their firm is successful because of their account management, which is not true at all. It's more because of their strategic insight. And so when they finally give that up and let somebody else do the account management, they discover how good that person is. And it's beyond what they ever could have imagined themselves. So I don't think it's so much a failure of leadership, I think it's just simply not having a lot to add to it. A lot of principals are really bad at account management, and they're even worse at project management. So it doesn't surprise me that it happens. I think that's why advisory practices like yours have so much opportunity out there, because there are principals who care about this, but they don't know what to do. And so they rely on an outside expert to help.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>I think it's definitely a big gap. And that's why my programmes are at least three months, because I like to work with that manager over a period of time. So going back to the account management role, what would be your advice for someone listening, thinking, I really want to up my game, I really want to develop my career in account management. What's your advice for how they should do that to be successful in account management?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Well, I think having an articulated point of view around, and this would be a lot easier if if, as an account manager you're working with firms who consistently are in the same space, whether that's vertical or horizontal positioning, if you're working for seven clients, and none of them have anything in common then I think it's very difficult for you to be a great account person. But if there's some commonality between them, then learning their field as much as possible, staying in touch with what's happening around it would be critical. And then learning great communication skills, maybe even signing up for some personal therapy, understanding yourself, understanding what your hot buttons are and how to talk yourself down off the ledge. I think networking with other account people is really good. Widely read as well, get feedback from right after a meeting, get feedbacks- anybody else from your team that was in there- like what went well there? What didn't go well? That's one of the difficulties with this field is that there's not just one very specific body of knowledge you go learn, it's really about being a better human more than anything. There's no role that's more human than the account person. And, so being self aware, learning how to read, learning how to de-escalate, those are all really critical. And I'm not even talking about like, understanding the particular nuances of your of your client work, which is big enough, right?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>This is such good advice. I wish in my career, I'd started reading and seeking external counsel much, much earlier in my career. You know, I feel that much of my career, I started in the early 90s, in an account management role, and you feel like you're being pulled from pillar to post, not really having any commercial guidance as to what your role is. And so that's fantastic advice. And also understanding yourself because we are the principal communicators and that's our currency.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Right. Something else I would add would be, and this is going to strike people as pretty strange, but go to Google and look up Theory of Change or Model of Change, and then flip to the image tab and see the 1000s of theories of change. And peruse those someday and come up with a model that's unique to your firm, about how you as a firm interact with your clients. How you bring them along, what's your theory of change. It's an area that not a lot of people have experienced, and we just innately know, at least we think we know, how to present a new idea to somebody and convince them of it. But if you spend a little bit more time, more like a scientist, and think about what is your own perspective on theory or models of change, it would help you as an account manager too.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>That's great advice. I recently read a book, and there was some research that came out at the end of last year, about how we should bear that in mind when we're presenting ideas to clients. And they they use the principle of status quo bias. And they broke it down into what actually constitutes status quo bias. And some, examples of how you can overcome status quo bias. So you're saying exactly the same thing? I think that's brilliant, brilliant advice. So, what do you advise agency leaders do when they say to you that they want to grow their accounts? What are your go to pieces of advice for them?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>The single thing that I think is most important there is to keep simulating the first year you work for the client. So presumably, when you land a client, they were already working with somebody else. If they weren't, then they probably are not a good client. In other words, you're not the first agency they're working with. That's a sign of a client, that's a good fit. And they came to you because something about the previous firm was stale. They weren't reinventing things, they were just doing the minimum, whatever those things were, and you impressed them out of the gate. And you were a little bit surprised you landed it, and now you're doing everything you can to fill those expectations that they have. But then you slide into the same thing that the other previous agency did, and you have new clients coming along all the time. And you kind of forget these and you don't every year say, 'All right, let's not just modify last year's plan. Let's instead look at what would we do completely differently if we inherited this plan from another agency? What could we do differently?'&nbsp; And I think that's the biggest thing you can do to grow accounts and to keep them. The goal isn't to keep them forever. The goal is to keep them for the right amount of time. And that could be for two years or five years, seldom is it longer than that. And the key to that, there are things out of your control obviously, but the key to that is to treat it like it's a new year every year and this is a client we're still really trying hard to impress.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>That's great advice. And it's something that we talk about in the account accelerator programme, being proactive, coming up with new ideas. I read a study, and one of the questions to clients in this study was, 'When you change agencies, what are some of the primary reasons why?' And the top answer was 'Because they never gave us anything that we didn't ask for.' So it sums up what you're saying, don't rest on your laurels. You mentioned that typically on average, an agency would keep a client between two and five years. Just curious, what do you think happens after five years? Where do you see the problems occurring agencies have very long client relationships?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>So in the early days of a relationship, they're more likely to listen to you and they're more likely to pay you some sort of a premium. That tails off in time. It always does, it's just a matter of how long it takes to happen. I think agencies, especially agencies that are growing, and whose capabilities are changing faster than their client needs are changing, I think a healthy turnover of your client ratio is a really good thing. And it's not the way it is in the field though, you hear people bragging all the time about how we have our first client still 11 years later. And I think, if you have them for the right reasons, that's great. But it could be that neither of you is all that ambitious, I don't know. I think you want to have an episodic relationship with your clients. The more it's just a steady presence, the less they're going to listen to you carefully, or pay you much money. You don't want to be the occupying force that moves into people's farmhouses and eats their crops and dates their daughters, that's not what we want. We want the deliberating force that falls from the sky to cheers and fixes things and then moves out. That's more the relationship we should have with our clients. There's exceptions to that. But in general, we're too in love with long clients. And that's part long term relationships with clients and that's partly because we suck at new business, and we're terrified of losing clients.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>It's so true. Do you think those ones that get stuck are just disrespected? The respect is somehow diminished if you've got the client for too long?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Well that's the default for sure. Now, if you are really good at consistently, over time, looking for ways to grow that clients presence in their marketplace, then that's very different, right. But it's not that many firms that do that. Most firms sort of slide into this old couple routine, where I know where I'm supposed to sit on the couch, and like what I'm supposed to do after dinner, and it's not all that exciting. It's just what we do, this is not my marriage, this is somebody else, but we're not taking the risks, it's not like a dating relationship. And so you don't want the client relationship to get into the old couple thing where you're just doing, because nobody wants to pay a lot of money for that. And people aren't listening too carefully to each other at that point.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Interesting because, you said, unless you're helping them grow their own presence, which is so true, but in order to do that, you have to have an understanding of their business, and what their challenges are, and what their problems are, so that you can help. And then it comes back to your previous point about, if you're not specialised enough, and you're spread so thinly across so many different clients, both in volume, but also in industry, and how you're going to get to that point where you do have the expertise to offer the right value?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Yeah, exactly. In the end, you're kind of cheating your clients, if you aren't setting this up in a way that really serves them well. And that's why I'm such a believer, here's one thing that just leads to everything I do, and that's let's be better business people, there's a lot of people helping you do better work. I want you to be a better business person, not just for your sake, but for their sake. I want you to force your clients to listen to you, not because of some power trip, but because you know what you're talking about and it's in their best interest to do that. You need to amass this sort of power, and then use it for good, not use it for evil (and that's probably some Bible verse, I don't mean it in the Bible sense), but there's something about, we're an unregulated marketplace. And the barrier to entry is non existent. Tomorrow I could be whatever I want to be in this field. And because of that, there's this sloppiness around how we do this work. And it's no wonder that we're kind of later in the process, we're not paid as well as other professional service providers. I want to change that because there are a lot of people in this field who are really good at what they do, and they deserve to feel that spotlight of the impact that they're having on their clients. And that is often mediated through great account management. You don't find many really successful firms who don't have great account people as well.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>I so agree, and I want to up the quality of what we do. I mean, I know you did a whole episode on this, but you talked about the consulting firms, and I was looking at a chart the other day about how much these consulting firms are kind of taking over so many different creative agencies. You've got the likes of Accenture, Deloitte, and I can't help but think it's only a matter of time before those more proficient consulting skills they have, sort of blend seamlessly with the creative agency component. You know, I can't believe that. And I don't know what's going on behind the scenes with that. But I think we do need to up our game.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Yeah, absolutely. The only thing they can't do is this wild, insane, essential creativity, that they they have not figured out how to do that. That's the only trump card we have. I need to think of another word than trump card. Right? It's the only thing we have, and and they keep buying firms. But if we get our act together, and are really good at delivering strategy, in the right context of account management, then we can win that game. I really do believe there's something this industry has that the consulting industry doesn't have.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>How many independent firms that you work with have a planner?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>An account&nbsp; So you're coming from the UK, only the agencies here call them account planners. In my structural model, I call them planners and people look at me, like what are you talking about? Because you guys, you guys invented account planning. So they would typically call them strategists, or researchers. And I would say that probably, maybe a third to 40% of them have somebody who is specifically dedicated to that. Otherwise, they kind of throw it into the account management side or they may have a contractor on the outside. So that's an area where an agency could beef up their offering significantly.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Yes Do you advise people to consider having a strategist?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Yeah, absolutely. A strategist should be a part of that role player staff that isn't a contractor and it needs to be an essential part of your offering, it needs to be the first thing you do at the outset of a new client relationship.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Fantastic. How do you think the agency business model, David, is going to evolve in the future?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Well, we haven't typically lead much evolution there, we've typically more responded to what's happening. The shakeout from 2020 is a little bit unclear to me. I do think agencies got more comfortable using remote folks. And so there'll probably be more contractor relationships that they'll get comfortable using and assembling a team. I do think that's probably the biggest change that's coming, in that there'll be core teams and then it'll be more like the Hollywood movie studio model where we assemble a team for a year and a half with this client project and then we disassemble or we go to the next thing or something like that. I think that's one thing that will be different. You have a lot of young people coming along who don't have any experience in this field. And so there's a lot of things they need to learn. But I love the fact that they're not coming with a lot of assumptions. And so they're thinking very differently around pricing, and around delivery and mix of services. So I think that's going to be really good for our industry. I wouldn't want to be running the firm, having done so for 30 years and doing things the way I was 30 years ago. I think that's probably a recipe for disaster. I do think software is going to take over more and more of what we do from the bottom and from the top, these consulting firms are going to take more and more what we do. I think we're going to have to get more into the advisory space and less into the implementation space. And all of those things are really good pressures to have because I'm not sure we would change without those pressures.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>I agree. Have you noticed a trend in the US as there is here in the UK? I was on a Beamer roundtable and there was a discussion around titles of account managers, and lots of agencies were taking the decision to change the title to consultant. Are you seeing the same trend in the US?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Yeah, and it's a little empty frankly. As if this is really going to change things. For one thing, people don't want to be consultants when they grew up, trust me on that one! That's just window dressing, it's just one of those silly little things we're doing telling ourselves that we're really making a difference. I don't think it matters to clients all that much. You want to act like a consultant for sure. But whatever you call yourself, I don't think matters. We've gone through all kinds of different titles. And to me, that's all window dressing. I'd concentrate on more the essence of what somebody's doing.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Are you seeing any trend for employees of the agency having the confidence now to set up on their own?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Oh, sure. Yeah, whenever you have a widespread disruption, like 2020 was and before that a little bit, and 2011 a lot, 2008 a lot in 2001, people are let go, and they just are forced to essentially work on their own, and they discover they enjoy it, and it goes really well. And so we'll look back on this time, last half of 2020, and the first half of 2021 and see lots of new firms founded, and that's good. That's really good. I think that's the kind of fresh blood that we need. There'll be a real distinction though, between, you're not going to find a lot of people starting firms who weren't already in this space, so there won't be quite as much learning as has happened in other high response economic times. So they're going to bring some bad habits with them because of where they were. The other thing that's happening is that on the later end of things is that principles are not staying in this space, as long as they did before. It used to be a life sentence, you did this and then then you didn't do it, and then you didn't work anywhere else, that's not the case at all anymore. People are discovering in their 40s, that there's one or two more careers after this, and they're leaving the field. So there's a lot more churn in the space, it's a lot more to keep up with, a lot more interesting, a lot more change overall I think it's good.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Are you seeing principals, kind of building and selling and then building again, and selling quite quickly.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Some of them are, but they're usually not building on the second run, they're not building another agency like this. It's not a great investment to build an agency like this if you already have one and you run it well, there's a good chance you can sell it if you do things, right, but it's not the easiest kind of place to sell. So what they're building instead is like a software company or a product company. They've learned how to do those things around the edges, and it's a lot more interesting to them, it's a lot more scalable to them. One of the things that they discovered in running the firm is that there are a lot of things that come with it that they just don't enjoy. And so they're trying to get out of that requirement, and they're trying to build a company that is more scalable to them.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>What kind of things do they tell you that they don't enjoy?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Managing people is top of the list. Nobody got into this field wanting to manage people, nor did they think about what gross would mean. Gross for them means doing less of something that they enjoy, and more of something they don't in many cases, and that's managing people. That's the biggest thing, and especially if you are conflict averse, and you don't like coaching people, then the staff is just a consistent daily pain in the neck. If you're really good at those things, and there are a lot of people who are really good at that stuff, they don't necessarily enjoy the process as much as they enjoy seeing somebody's career really take off and see how somebody leaves. That's the other thing that's happening too is you'll have more boomerang employees. So somebody who works someplace, goes somewhere else, often for the money or because a family member is moving, and then they come back and they work at the same place that's happening a lot more than before too. And that's satisfying, because it gives the principal this sense of how much impact they're having.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Do you see a big impact for those agencies that really establish culture very well in their agency? Really genuinely, putting people first?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>There's a really significant benefit to the employees and to their job as a leader. Not so much in terms of the client experience or the effectiveness of the work, and that's where I think we mix things up. You need to do great from a cultural standpoint, because it's the right thing to do because your employees deserve it. Not because it's a point of differentiation in the marketplace. We're talking about culture way too much publicly instead of just doing it.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Totally agree. David, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for sharing so many insights. I've made loads and loads of notes, and I know everyone listening here is going to get some a-ha moments! So thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today. I really appreciate it.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>David&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>You're welcome, Jenny. Thank you for having me.<br><br></div><div><strong><br><br></strong><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2021 16:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/zw6myy08.mp3" length="57740455" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/4bb73980-8d47-11eb-bdee-db90ab6cd6e3/4bb73aa0-8d47-11eb-a76e-eb378eeadf52.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2886</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Today's episode was a real treat. For me, I have the pleasure of talking to David C. Baker, who is a legend in the agency world. We discussed everything to do with account management, including why David thinks the account management role is the most difficult role in the whole agency. Also the problem with account managers doing project management tasks, where he sees performance deficiencies in account management, and some brilliant advice for how to address those deficiencies, and also up your account management game. Why he suggests agencies asked their clients to take personality profile tests, why account management don't receive guidance from agency owners, and so many more topics. I really enjoyed this chat, and I know you're going to come away with some value.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Today's episode was a real treat. For me, I have the pleasure of talking to David C. Baker, who is a legend in the agency world. We discussed everything to do with account management, including why David thinks the account management role is the most difficult role in the whole agency. Also the problem with account managers doing project management tasks, where he sees performance deficiencies in account management, and some brilliant advice for how to address those deficiencies, and also up your account management game. Why he suggests agencies asked their clients to take personality profile tests, why account management don't receive guidance from agency owners, and so many more topics. I really enjoyed this chat, and I know you're going to come away with some value.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to move from agency employee to agency owner, with Simon Barbato</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/m84ypqln</link>
      <itunes:title>How to move from agency employee to agency owner, with Simon Barbato</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>23</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">x16ny2r1</guid>
      <description>This episode is for you if you're working for a creative/digital agency and are thinking about becoming an agency owner.

It's also one to listen to if you're in a planning role (sometimes referred to an agency strategist) or are wondering whether your talents might be suited to this role.

Simon Barbato is the founder of Mr. B and Friends.  Like me he started his career in advertising in the 1990s in client service. 

He quickly then transitioned into a strategist/planner role and then eventually became an agency owner. 

In this episode, he is going to share his journey, the ups the downs, and also his advice for you if you're considering something similar. He's also going to share why he believes now is a great time to make that leap. 

I've asked Simon to share with us a little bit more about the role of a planner in an agency, how they work with the account management team, how it adds value to clients and leads to client retention and at what point an agency should consider having one.

Enjoy.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:</strong></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So Simon, would you mind spending a couple of minutes talking about you, your background, and how you made that transition from agency account management through to agency planning, and then eventually, agency owner?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah. Hi, Jenny. Thanks for having me on. I'm actually a really big fan of the podcasts I've being listening to it since you started. So, I'm quite, I feel quite honoured to be asked to come and come and talk to you today. So, um, my background is classic agency sorts of management. I started in London in the early 90s and I worked at a part of the Abbott Mead Vickers group, then part of the Ogilvy group, and then I went to work in a brand consultancy called Light and Coley who don't unfortunately exist any longer. And my role was, in my very first job, was an account exec. I learnt very much how to do client service, I was looking after advertising and integrated marketing accounts. And then as I started to progress through my career, I started to become a little bit more interested in the business side of things. And as I got to my last role, which was with Light and Coley, which was an international brand consultancy, I started to want to have a deeper conversation with clients. And I started to become more and more curious about how organisations operated, about how you position brands, about how you develop organisational culture and things like that. So, I started to become extremely curious. I was always really inquisitive as a child, and never ever had any shortage of questions for people. And it was at that point, I started to work with internal planners and external consultants as well, and started to&nbsp; learn the frameworks of brand planning. And it was at that point that I took the leap from managing clients to&nbsp; consulting with clients.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It's funny, actually, because when you describe the account management role that you had, and your curiosity in the client’s business, do you feel that that is actually a prerequisite for the account management role?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think curiosity is one of the key drivers of great account managers, the ability to show interest, ask questions, dig deep to unearth the background to a client's business or business problem for example. I think all of these things provide a really great canvas in which then you can then build creative briefs or build project briefs. So if you don't have that innate ability to drive into the clients business, I think that you'll you will operate on the very surface, and therefore probably have a transactional relationship with your client rather than a deep relational engagement.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I totally agree. So how do you think that having the role of agency account manager, agency planner, do you think that that fundamentally set you up for success as an agency owner?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, I would say that all of those experiences provided the framework for running a business really, I can't think of a better grounding to start a creative business than the client services area. I mean, if you think about it, it's so deep, and it's so broad, you’ve got, the first thing is managing people, managing clients, , in providing levels of service, which, , delight, your client portfolio on a daily basis. I mean, that's such an important principle to learn in business. The second thing about account managers is that by their very nature, they're there to help grow accounts. So therefore, they have an ability to work with clients to grow their business to provide betterment to their customers, rather than just deliver against projects. So therefore, there's a bit of a new business angle to client service as well. Then you've got project management, which is obviously about being really super organised, great communication skills, all those sorts of things, resource management in terms of people and then finally and really, really super important, of course, is budget management. And it was at Light and Coley actually, strangely that we were taught how to run a micro P&amp;L for our client portfolio. So, I learned about how to , what was the difference between revenue, what was the cost of goods sold, what was , gross profit, what would the internal cost be and therefore, what would be profit before tax and, and net net? So, it gave me a really great source of understanding of how to, , forecast, from a financial point of view, how my small portfolio of clients would actually make the agency money. And taking all of those experiences forward. I started my first agency back in 1998, which was called The Field.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Wow, I didn't realise that you had another agency beforehand. Just stepping back one step, I think that's phenomenal. And that's the first time I've ever heard any agency providing training around a profit and loss account. I mean, yeah, I think that should be mandatory, really, isn't it? Because if we're going to be in front of clients, having business level conversations, , and we're looking for business challenges, business outcomes, you need to speak the language of business. And the fundamentals of business is the P&amp;L. So I think that's phenomenal. The other question before we talk a little bit more about The Field, do you think for someone listening, who is in a client service role, that's thinking about starting their own agency, do you think it's necessary to have to do the planning role first? Because obviously, in your role as a planner, you are getting deeper into the client's business, won't you and being very consultative Do you think that's important to do before you make the leap to do your own agency?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>No, not? Not really, I think that it depends on what type of business you want to be. There are some really good creative businesses out there that are not strategically oriented. A lot of businesses will claim to be strategically oriented, but there are a lot of really great businesses, which just do great creative work or great digital work. So having a planning capability is not necessary for success. It was just that I wanted to, rather than focus on advertising and integrated marketing, which is where I started my career, I wanted to focus on brand, brand strategy, and therefore this gave me a competitive advantage. And it was through trial and error of my first few forays into doing actual brand strategy. I look back now, and I cringe at how naive and basic some of my solutions were, but it was, it was my determination to learn and determination to&nbsp; keep practising keep getting better, and that really&nbsp; drove it forward. So I don't think that you need to have a planning background. There are also many great planners, who you can go out and employ if you can afford it. And at the moment within our agency, Mr B and Friends, we've got&nbsp; three outstanding planners who are far better at the job than I was ever. So, it's always great to be able to do that.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So tell me, take me back to that moment where you were employed in the agency as a planner, what was the moment or what happened for you to start to think I'm going to start my own agency? What was the spark?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So I was working on a relatively well known retail bank. And I was an account director. And I started to work with the planning team on the positioning of this well-known retail bank. And the information that I was exposed to from the planning team was information I've never seen about a business before. And it got me really interested. And the more and more I dug, the more and more I thought that's exactly what I wanted to do. And I started to shadow the planning teams, started to move into the role. I started to form opinions, have conversations, I started to position myself up the client chain from the marketing department into the senior leadership team. And it was at that moment that I knew that that's what I wanted to do. So I was given opportunities within that agency to work on other brand strategy work. And it was at the point of, it was around 1998 that I thought, I'm going to give this a go and I left my job without any clients, just with some contacts and some confidence and it worked. It was great. And what was interesting was, it was because of the reputation that I generated as a relatively decent Client Services person that enabled me to have a relatively good network of clients, and it was those clients that became The Field's first clients.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Wow. So you'd done the groundwork?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Groundwork was done,</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Just taking you back a tiny step. What was that information that the planning team exposed you to? That you hadn't been exposed to? I'm just curious.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah. So it was information about how the bank made money. It was distribution strategies, it was internal culture, it was positioning within the competitive landscape, all of these sorts of things. When I was in Client Services, I would probably get surface level of information rather than that deep level of, of source of information. I wouldn't read an annual report, for example, but the annual report is absolutely where , you find out everything about your client, or your prospects business, . It's information like that, that I suppose I just wasn't exposed to.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And I suppose, having gone through that journey yourself, do you now, I know we're jumping forward and back because we're at The Field, but now I want to talk about Mr. B. I'm thinking as having gone through that journey, and realised that was a massive revelation, realising how useful that information was, and how much it sparked you to think, wow, this is actually what I should have been knowing about the business? How do you now run your team? Do you make sure that everyone's exposed to that, or kind of set the task of looking for that type of information about the business?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, I think that there's a slight difference, though, because when you are in a planning context, your role is very, very different to what say, an AD, Account Director might be, and therefore the client will see you in a slightly different way, because you're there to solve a different problem. And I think that as an natural consequence of the client's perception, they will provide you with the information that they feel is necessary for you to get the job done. And so therefore, it's not always, I mean, the amount of NDA's I have to sign for example, is a really great example of the difference between a planner and an AD. Planners are exposed to business sensitive information, your client services, generally speaking, are exposed to information about the project. And I see that there is a difference there. So within Mr B and Friends, we have a fantastic planning department, we encourage all of our client services people to learn as much about the business as the planners are learning. But of course, we have to also respect the fact that they are doing two different roles. And you can do the role together because I did it. , when I started my first business, I did the role I was the AM plus I was the planner, as well, I was also the chief cook, bottle washer and everything else! But the point being, you can do it, but you can't do it at scale. And that's the point, , you cannot, it takes a lot of mental availability for a planner to immerse himself into a business and have that time to immerse themselves to research, to have those stakeholder conversations, to think, to come up with solutions. And then to provide the platform for everybody else to do their job brilliantly. Imagine trying to do that over three or four accounts. It's really, really difficult. And that's why the planning role and the AM role at scale has to be separate.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So tell me about, again, going back, you started The Field, you were everything to everybody - there's my account management hat, there's my agency owner hat, there's my planner hat. How did you then scale it? Because I'm sure there are people listening also that maybe are in the early stages of starting their agency thinking, this is all becoming quite unmanageable, but I don't quite know how to then grow. So how did you do that transition?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Oh, it was just really incredible hard work, long hours. And the first thing that I did was to build up a war chest, a cash war chest. So, I try to make everything profitable from day one so I could put some money in the bank. And that will enable me to bring people in to share the heavy lifting, so to speak. And so it was, I mean, in those days when I was running The Field, this is when I was starting out and the planning, the projects weren't as big, the clients weren't as important and things like that. So, it was much more The Field is much more of a comms, brand comms agency than it was a strategy sorts of business. But yes, so all of those different things, it was just about a lot of hard work, a lot of application, running through walls and just trying to keep the quality high and the clients happy. And then it scaled. And The Field was only a very small business when you got to 11 people, sub 1 million pounds in fee income, but it was a really successful little agency, and I learned so much running that business, good stuff and bad stuff.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I can imagine. What happened, did you sell the agency? Or did you close the agency? What happened?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, here is an incredible coincidence, because we specialised in the adventure travel market. And when SARS hit in 2003, most of our clients stopped spending money. So we had leveraged the business, painted ourselves into a corner, and revenue just really slowed down. And so I couldn't believe that we would have another source of respiratory problem that would really kill a load of other agencies, nearly 20 years later. But, so I managed to sell the business to a larger marketing services group that was looking to put a brand offer into their comms offer. And so we became the branding department of that larger business.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>You must be Simon, one of the only people that could actually put up their hands and say, I've been here before with the Coronavirus, because you were there with SARS. And you built the agency, the niche that was going to be most affected. I mean, because it has been, , exceptional what we've been through. But, so tell us about what were the biggest challenges for you? So, okay, so you sold Mr. B? Sorry, you sold The Field? And then you started, Mr. B. Were you, how did that transition happen?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So, I had to stay around for a couple of years, with the company that acquired The Field and I always knew I would go back into agency ownership. One of the interesting pieces of advice I got was, a long time ago, was that people in profit, sometimes they don't work well together. And so when I started Mr B and Friends, I'd learned a lot of lessons about creating overhead, during the days of The Field, and I was keen to try to go into the market again as a consultant. So on my business card, when it said Mr B and Friends, it just simply said 'Brand and Creative Consultants'. And that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to take what I'd learnt over the years and go in and help to unravel the plate spaghetti that is often a client's business, and to provide simplicity and clarity around brand strategy, positioning, brand architecture, and all those sorts of things. And the Friends, all of these guys, were freelance contractors that I had generated my black book of, great people who could then come in and work with me on implementation programmes so identity, comms, digital and things like that. And what happened after a couple of years, it just got a massive head of steam again, and all of a sudden, I was working 16 hours a day and I could see burnout happening. But the biggest thing for me really was the fact that I could see the quality was slipping, and I really needed a partner in the business. And so I reached out to my good friend and ex colleague, Steve Richardson, who was then in Auckland, and he was the creative director of DDB Interbrand. And I sold him the idea of coming back to the UK and partnering up. And so that's what he did. And he put his family on a plane and all of his goods and chattels in a container, sent it back. And we said, right, let's build this thing. Because we had the foundation of outstanding clients. We had really good reputation. We had opportunities, and we just needed to get on and do it. So that's what we did.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So looking back on that moment, again, for anyone listening, thinking of doing the transition, would you advise people to really consider it earlier? Because it sounds to me like you thought you were going to be a consultant, then you started getting freelancers to support you, then you made that transition of having employees and then you thought, well, I actually need a partner, do you think it's imperative to have a partner? Or I'm sorry, I'm asking so many questions. But talk to me about that moment because I think it'll be useful for people to maybe consider different ways of doing this.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, I think it depends, you've got to ask yourself what type of business you want to develop, I mean, when you take on a partner, you certainly lighten the load, and you can get complementary skills, there's just no way that one person can have all the skills needed to develop a really successful creative business. So, I knew that Steve, because we'd worked together, he was at The Field, I knew that Steve was, had the right metal to be a business owner, that, I mean, level of craft in his work, good at people management, great sorts of alignment with my worldviews and values and things. But most importantly, that run through the wall commitment to just get the job done. And, until whatever, , until it's done thing. And I think that's what was interesting. Was it, do I want to have a 100% of&nbsp; something very small, that was all about me and so therefore, was a lifestyle business, or did I want to have an equal share in something that could grow and scale and bring other people on board? And&nbsp; eventually, if we wanted to have an event, that might be a possibility? So, I don't think I would ever regret bringing a partner on board is just helped so much. And I think it's a really positive thing, but it's about finding the right partner. And I do know people that have selected the wrong partners. So it's important that there is an affinity or some knowledge of that person's working pattern, what they believe in, what they value, all those different things.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And it sounded like you had experience of working together with Steve, so you to kind of you knew what it was going to be like. Okay, so, just to finish off this story about the agency. So Steve, joined you? And then did you just find from that moment onwards, that the journey was easier for you personally? Or was it new challenges, new types of problems to face?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>New opportunities more than problems. I think that that's, that was the motivating thing, it was two very seasoned&nbsp; practitioners, in that hilarious moment that they're almost like a bootstrap startup mode. I mean, I remember, our first office,&nbsp; there was sewage coming up through the floor. And, we were networking our computers, by sticking two sorts of&nbsp; cables into the back of each computer. It was brilliant, it was exhilarating. And all we were focused on was building great relationships with clients, doing great work and getting fair compensation. And so it was it was a moment. And then Steve had the requisite skill in terms of understanding what would be a great employee for a studio that he was going to build, or who would be a great friend to do that piece of work over there, if we needed to continue using the friends network. So it was an exhilarating time, and&nbsp; full of energy, making&nbsp; great decisions and bad decisions. But, we were doing something together.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Love it, love it. And you said that you focused primarily on relationships? Can you share any tips around what did that actually look like? How did you create those strong relationships?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah so, and I believe that this is where the planning part of my career helped massively, because we weren't ever a transactional type of business, we have never been a transactional type of business. And I think that the only way that you can build deep, long standing relationships with your clients is to really get under the skin and to be seen as a trusted advisor. And so therefore, you have to have the vernacular, you have to have the understanding, you have to learn the technical parts of your client’s business, no matter what their business is. I mean, some of our some of our clients are pretty, pretty dry. I think, I mean, we've got clients in the pension space for example. But what I couldn't tell you about self-invested personal pension isn't worth knowing, because I put the hard yards in to learn the client's business, even understanding their jargon, their lingo, and everything else because then you become an active participant in the conversation. And when you have that level of depth, you become a trusted adviser, because you're not thinking just about the brief at hand, you've got a more 360 view. And that is for me, which was the really powerful thing. And then with Steve, like, also being a very much a strategic thinker, we were able to deliver brand, comms positioning sorts of advice to our clients, as well as wonderful, inspiring creativity and execution. So it became, it was, that was our whole focus, but , build those great relationships really have them cemented. And the other thing I would say about that, is that my word, the equity that that gives you, because when things go wrong, invariably they do, the client will remember the investments that you've made into their business. So I have a saying about giving without the expectation of receiving. I've always thought that that is a really important trait, no matter what you're doing in in the agency world. And I am still receiving now, inquiries for major, major pieces of work from people that I worked with 25 years ago.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Wow. So Simon, as your agency grew, and you weren't, you and Steve weren't the key people who were getting under the skin of the business, and really understanding the language that the clients were using and understanding their environments, and really micro level, and I can see why that, , developed really strong relationships. What happened when you started employing more people? Did you feel a sense of 'Oh, they're not gonna be able to do it as deeply as me?' Or was there any moment that you felt a little bit of loss of control? And how did you kind of cope with that? If you did?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>You can read my mind! So, absolutely, absolutely. Because we had a certain quality that we would just refuse to dip below. And I think that when the agency got to about 15/20, people, I certainly started to become a blocking point, because I was still doing a lot of the brand work, the brand planning work, then. And I certainly started to become a blocking point. And, when you bring new people in, obviously, they have their own processes and perceptions of what quality looks like and things like that. So, I think that there was a point, when we started to get worried that the magic that we'd created in the early years, was starting to get watered down a little bit. And so therefore, that was when we decided it was really important to re-energise the business with some pretty senior hires. And we've made a number of senior hires. Two really amazing hires one in Kate Gorringe, who's our creative director, who basically is Steve's 2IC. And Kate bought in such a level of experience into the team, not just from a creative point of view, but also from a studio management point of view as well. And that freed up Steve up to develop, to continue developing the creative products of the agency. And from my point of view, I, we bought in Adam Partridge, who's our planning and strategy director. Adam has taken what I was doing, and really accelerated it and made it significantly better. And that enabled me to then start to grow the business in other ways, as well. So, I think that having that humility to be able to accept that you need people better than you, is a really fantastic trait for a leader to have. And, and yeah, they came in, and they started to build their own departments and take what we had done and just make it better.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Did you, was there any I mean, Adam was obviously very experienced anyway. But did you have any kind of training for Adam in the way that you were doing things with clients? Or did you have a&nbsp; coming together and sharing your approaches?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yes, definitely. So what was fantastic was I, I shared with Adam, our process that we like to do and what and what, how we define brand, strategy and brand frameworks. And he came in, he really liked what we had done already, but he identified areas in which we could improve it. And that's exactly what he did. So effectively, the thread of what I had started is still there, but you can just see that it's supercharged. Now it's much better,</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Do you I mean, now you've freed yourself up to run the agency and have more of the vision and the strategy, do you position your agency in terms of favouring a certain sector of the market? Have you got quite a narrow focus with your positioning?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So that is a really an amazing question because agency positioning is the hot topic. How do you create a hugely highly differentiated agency? One of the fears, of course, is that by going through the positioning, the true positioning process, you end up actually reducing your addressable market to the point of even one or two&nbsp; sectors and things like that. So what we've done is that we, if you go to our website, you'll just see it says brand expertise. Okay, that's what we do. And brand is a transferable and scalable business discipline. And so that's what you will see from the outside, but when we actually go to market, we will talk about brand expertise in and we have two really core sectors. The first is the financial services sector. And the second is technology, media and telecom. So we do work outside of those. But those areas are the founding sectors of the agency and still the two verticals that we have got the strongest portfolio in, and the most reputation. So yeah, we have a broad positioning around what we do. But we also tried to create distinction for our brand, by talking about no added nonsense, we try to just get to the point, we talk in very straight terms, we do not sell clients something that they do not need. If a client comes to us with a business problem, the answer is not always a brand strategy solution, , we might actually send them away and ask them to go and speak to another friend or another agency. So what we're trying to do is create an identity for the business on how we do things. And brand expertise is what we do.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I love that. I mean, you said this earlier on but I think the sign of a good plan for me is simplification, the ability to simplify. So I love the no added nonsense. And I've been through your website, I think it's fantastic. And also sometimes, presumably, for clients that come to you with a problem, it's defining whether that is the problem that you need to deal with, right?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, of course. I mean, you should never prescribe until you've diagnosed. And to borrow a term from Blair Enns, actually, but it's interesting, we spend a lot of time in the immersion phase in order to help the clients to understand the business problem. And the types of conversations that we have are so wide and varied. I mean, that's why I love working in the agency world, I don't think I could ever be client side, because I don't think I would have the discipline just to work on one brand. But so we have loads of different clients coming to us with different problems. And what we're really good at is getting to what matters most and actually helping the clients to either confirm, validate or change their opinion as to what's needed to be done. And that's where the strategic nature of brand planning becomes so exciting because you are effecting change at an organisational level, not just at a marketing level, we're talking about, we're talking about the fortunes of organisations, we're talking about people's jobs and the role, the culture in which they operate in. And then of course how the world sees that organisation. It's a really exciting business to be in. And it's the thing that the agency is set up to do and it's the bit that motivates people more than anything else.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>What is that skill that you have, that allows you to do that, because not everybody can go into a client's business and look at, to use your words, the spaghetti, the - we've got this, we're doing this and another and make some sense of it? And then also to simplify it enough, so that you identify the key problem and then start addressing it. So tell me about, if someone's listening to this, maybe they're thinking about going into the planning role, or maybe an account manager wants to transition over to the planning role. What are the skills that you think someone that's really good at the role has?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Okay, I think that a core skill is to understand how business works okay. So I think it's really important that you understand how your client makes money and what prevents them from moving forward. And I think that once you actually can start to picture, the different departments of an organisation, you can then start to understand each individual&nbsp; part on how it all sits together, it's that, , I'd never say that Mr. B and Friends is a business consultancy, but there is a level of business consultancy in what we do. And so having the frameworks in which to , I suppose segment business problems, having the confidence and I suppose the parameters that question and to dive deep into an organisation is really, really important. Having past experience because we work on, well, how many, how many clients have I worked with over the years, , probably hundreds. And you've probably seen all of the problems in common sorts of problems that other businesses in other sectors have had. So, drawing on that like, huge resource of , within your&nbsp; memory in your experience. And then breaking things down into smaller bite sized chunks. Somebody once said to me that&nbsp; if you try to eat a salami in one go, you'll choke on it. So slice it up into small parts, and work on each part, and then put it back together. So I think that the ability to step back, see the big picture, and break up the problems into small bite sized chunks, and then start to elegantly put them back together in a logical way that will enable the client to also move forward, unblock a problem that might may exist, because the problem may be in the market, or maybe internal. And to then move forward.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Really, really good. I think not enough agencies actually have that level of business consultancy acumen. And I think, our industry, there are so many management consultancies that are taking over, buying up creative agencies left, right and centre, you've got the Accenture's of the world, you've got the PwC. And that trend, I mean, I use one of the charts, the trend that's happening, it's only a matter of time before that traditional management consultancy skill blends quite nicely with the creative skill, and then they have something really powerful. I mean, I don't know what it's like behind the scenes and internally, whether that's all joining up, but certainly, I've noticed a trend of agencies starting to change the title of account director into consultant. So I think there's definitely a trend. I mean, can you say, Simon, I know you've probably worked with hundreds of businesses, but can you say that there's like top three business problems, broadly, that businesses come to you with?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, definitely. So I think the top three challenges that we get will be around positioning. So an organisation is unsure of the value that it delivers in to their consumers and in relationship to their competitive landscape. So their positioning may be set up in the past and not fit for the future. The second, I think, is probably brand architecture. So there's a lot of consolidation going on in many vertical sectors. There's a lot of money, private equity money, and VC money and everything swirling around. So there's a lot of companies who are on the acquisition trail, and that prevents that presents itself a distinctive problem because, , how do you integrate an organisation into a larger and swallow it up? What do you do? Do you kill it? Do you track transition it? What's the migration programme? So we do a lot of consulting around that. And then the third is about creating distinction around visual and verbal identity where, it's just not connecting with people, it's not motivating. And when you've actually got a really exciting positioning statement, how do you then bring that to life? And how do you make it connect externally and internally? And I think that when you combine, I mean, we sometimes we get briefs, which have all three elements of that going on, and those are the really exciting brand programmes that we run. But sometimes the work's done internally sometimes and we validate and sometimes the work, , is done with us. There was a fourth one I'd like to just add, if that's okay, it's around organisational culture as well. And we are doing so much work around EBP at the moment, employer brand and setting, really inspiring&nbsp; internal culture, in order that people can really understand that the business is brand and brand is business and,&nbsp; , what we hoping to do when we do internal work is that we're creating an army of ambassadors for the brand and at least, at the very least they can articulate what their organisation stands for and what it's all about. That's the hygiene factor. But actually, some of the work that we've done is about helping to retain talent, helping to attract the very best talent, creating an employer reputation, which is outstanding. And we've been doing that since day one.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Wow. Do you work with external consultants also, so where your work finishes, and then perhaps, I can just see that, is there a cultural specialist that trains the team in making sure everyone is, , talking about the company in the same way? I mean, do you have a network of different companies that you bring in at certain points that you work with?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, certainly. But we also have the experience and talent with the internal team as well. So yeah, so we've got that internally organised and there will obviously be certain people who are specialist in the area of talent, HR law, and things like that, so that's important. And I know of a lot of internal comms consultants that are available, and they operate with us on a friends basis as well. So yeah, but we do have that talent in house, it's become really important to our own proposition.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think there must be agency leaders thinking we don't currently have a planning function within our business. You mentioned before that it was a big hire for you, your first ever kind of Director of Planning? At what point in an agency's development would you say that having a full-time planning person is essential?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, earlier than we invested, I can tell you, but I'll just say that we waited and got the very best, so it was great. I think that when you get to some critical mass within the business and the conversations with clients are oriented around their organisational strategy or brand and things like that, I think you'll get a know, I mean, we should have brought a Head of Planning in when I was getting swamped, which would have been around that 15&nbsp; head counts really. We did work with freelancers, and brought them in, but they just weren't invested in that they were hired guns, , they'd come into a great job and everything but then they'd go off. And what you need, when you have that long term account with a client, is that you need the planning capability there all the time. It's like a corporate memory bank, and you don't get that when a freelancer has done the work. So I would have said around 15 people, I mean, at our height, the agency got about 42 people, and we have 4 or 5 in the planning team.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Would you say that's the reason why you managed to have these long-term relationships with your clients, because you have that planning function, is that a big contributing factor?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think is a contributing factor. And it keeps the agency relevant, it helps to do, it should fuel the account growth plans and things like that. It's not always the case, I have to say, but I think that it provides a different level of depth to the relationship beyond the brilliant work that the client services team are doing. And it's that intelligence and 360 vision, which unlocks future opportunities. And therefore, I think that you move into a trusted adviser status when you have that within your stable.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>How does it work internally Simon, with your account management team and your planning team? How did the account management team know when to bring in the planning team and when not to and who leads the relationship? And how does that kind of work?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So client services, our client services team, they will know when we're talking about something that has a strategic nature to it. I also encourage them not to boil the ocean as well. Not every single discussion needs to have a plan out. It just needs to have a really good Client Services person asking the right questions and writing great briefs. But, if we're talking about brand strategy, are we talking about major projects and things like that, we tend to just make sure, check in with the planning team, just double check that, , they believe that they should be present. But the Client Services team own the relationship, and that is crucial, absolutely crucial that there's no ambiguity there.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Agreed. So I'm just conscious of time. I didn't realise that, I could talk to you all day, especially reminiscing about advertising in the early 90s. I'm sure there's lots of stories that we could swap. And I'm just curious about someone listening to this thinking, wow, this sounds really exciting. And perhaps they are in a planning role. And they think, well, I've got all the skills like Simon, it really helped him, then going to an agency owner role. Are there any tips or advice that you could share, anything that we haven't discussed already, that you think would be valuable to keep in mind?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, yeah, I think the first question is, what's your motivation to moving from employment to self-employment, and then to the employer status. If it's like me, you’re impatient, and you want to, I suppose do something on your own and prove that to yourself, you can do it, then I think that's a great thing. And I love meeting people that are entrepreneurial, and people that have that confidence in their own ability to go for it. But I think the things that, some tips, I think, is that never forget that it's all about clients, okay? Never forget, if you don't have clients, you don't have a business, and therefore, you have to be client centric all the time. And that's in terms of winning clients, servicing clients and helping clients out and being that&nbsp; go to person when the client needs you. Understanding how, planners may not know how the commercial side of the business works. So for example, there's a lot of planners that I've met, and we've employed, and it's the first time that they've ever been exposed to the machinations of agency. Learn that. How does an agency stay afloat, make money and, that's really important to learn. And then I think, knowing your value, and how to price, for the long term, not for the short term. And that's another judgement that you have to make. And once you have that going, as I said earlier , build up a bit of a war chest of money on balance sheets. Use the Friends model, make everything a cost of sale, not a fixed overhead to start with. You don't need to employ people, we're now in this incredibly agile environment, where it's the gig economy, work from anywhere, , this is the perfect environment for somebody to set up an agency. And once you have that critical mass in the business, you start to hire and then bring in some experts to help you with legals and employment and infrastructure, even an office if you do decide to go for it. So I mean, loads, the journey that I went on was, , stumbling from mistake to mistake and things like that. And eventually you just get it right. And, and once you've got those foundations, right, everything can then just accelerate.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Some great tips there. I love the thing about the war chest. I think that's so practical. Lots of really great tips for anyone listening and quite inspiring as well. So how do you see the future for agencies? And maybe planning and account management? Is there anything that you see coming, that you think is significant for the agency world in general? Any kind of trends or things you're saying?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Hmm. So I think, I've just got a view on this, which other leaders may not agree, but I see that clients are wanting to choose expert agencies in particular roles. So therefore, I think full-service agencies are going to really struggle to keep themselves relevant. And therefore, niching down actually is quite an interesting strategy and something that we've very much done over the last few years where we have decided what we are absolutely brilliant at and we decided what we don't want to do as well. So I think that's an interesting one. I think that client services becoming so important to the client environment. There was the Up to the Light report that came out just recently again, which demonstrated the importance of client service, great client service, in the client and client agency relationship. And I think that we have to move people to a trusted adviser position where they, consultancy actually is interesting because as you say, , if you look at the&nbsp; management consultants, , they drive up the value of their services, they provide a significant amount of value to the client beyond the job in hand. And I think that us creative businesses, we need to start pushing our client services team up that value chain. So the perception that's held of the team by the client organisation is much greater. The last thing I ever want is for a client services person to be the person just taking notes, that's not where we need to be. And from a, from a planning point of view, I think that the opportunity to bring some really great skills into the mid-market is a great opportunity as well. I'm seeing a lot of organisations that, outside of the FTSE 300, and all that stuff. Now, thinking brand is a really valuable business tool. And therefore, there's an opportunity for us to apply that strategic thought to smaller businesses and to start to help companies become more brand led than branded. And there's a real distinction there. And that's something that we're very active in so. Yeah, so I think that's a really exciting moment.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Amazing. Thank you. That was brilliant. Brilliant advice for agency owners, account managers and planners. So this has been amazing. Simon, if someone wants to find out about you, more about you, or almost a billion friends, how can they get hold of you? How can they reach you?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Okay, so I'm on LinkedIn, of course. So you can connect me on LinkedIn - Simon Barbato. If anybody wants to reach out my email addresses is on our website, mrbandfriends.co.uk. And I sometimes muck around on Twitter, but I'm trying to do that less and less.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Another distraction!</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I just don't have time for anything.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Exactly!&nbsp; Simon, thank you so, so much for sharing so many valuable tips. I think this is going to be really a great episode for many people who are thinking about possibly moving from account manager to planner, or a planner to an agency owner. I think this is hugely inspiring. So thank you so much for joining me and thank you so much for everything you've shared.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Thank you. It's been lovely to have a walk down memory lane, actually. So yeah, I look forward to listening back. Thanks a lot for having me.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Lovely. It's a pleasure.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Simon &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Cheers.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2021 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/jwy5m6zw.mp3" length="56320438" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/5ab0aa40-87ce-11eb-a47c-b53ce7c01e2b/5ab0ab80-87ce-11eb-813a-85772dff523d.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2815</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>This episode is for you if you're working for a creative/digital agency and are thinking about becoming an agency owner.

It's also one to listen to if you're in a planning role (sometimes referred to an agency strategist) or are wondering whether your talents might be suited to this role.

Simon Barbato is the founder of Mr. B and Friends.  Like me he started his career in advertising in the 1990s in client service. 

He quickly then transitioned into a strategist/planner role and then eventually became an agency owner. 

In this episode, he is going to share his journey, the ups the downs, and also his advice for you if you're considering something similar. He's also going to share why he believes now is a great time to make that leap. 

I've asked Simon to share with us a little bit more about the role of a planner in an agency, how they work with the account management team, how it adds value to clients and leads to client retention and at what point an agency should consider having one.

Enjoy.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>This episode is for you if you're working for a creative/digital agency and are thinking about becoming an agency owner.

It's also one to listen to if you're in a planning role (sometimes referred to an agency strategist) or are wondering whether your talents might be suited to this role.

Simon Barbato is the founder of Mr. B and Friends.  Like me he started his career in advertising in the 1990s in client service. 

He quickly then transitioned into a strategist/planner role and then eventually became an agency owner. 

In this episode, he is going to share his journey, the ups the downs, and also his advice for you if you're considering something similar. He's also going to share why he believes now is a great time to make that leap. 

I've asked Simon to share with us a little bit more about the role of a planner in an agency, how they work with the account management team, how it adds value to clients and leads to client retention and at what point an agency should consider having one.

Enjoy.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Why 98% of online ads don't work - and what to do about it, with Martin Lucas</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/l8q9yzk8</link>
      <itunes:title>Why 98% of online ads don't work - and what to do about it, with Martin Lucas</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>22</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">80nl5n70</guid>
      <description>In this episode Martin Lucas, Mathematical Psychologist and Founder of the company Gap In the Matrix is about to blow the lid off many of the sacred cows in the agency world.

He has spent four years studying why humans don't understand humans and how brands are missing a trick when it comes to engaging their customers and understanding why they make purchasing decisions.

Rory Sutherland, Vice Chairman of Ogilvy said this about Martin's company:

"Gap In the Matrix is one of a tiny number of people in the world who understands that it is psychology which offers the greatest potential to revolutionise marketing in the next ten years and beyond.”

In this fascinating episode he shares the results of his four year study and drops bombshells like:

* Why $265bn of online ads don't get interacted with and the average Facebook ad click through rate is a tiny 1.61%, Google display ad 1.91% and programmatic 0.035% 
* Why measuring impressions isn't useful
* Why brand strategy is stuck in its ways and should be called "performance branding"
* Why defining "personas" for a brand isn't helpful
* Why the attribution model for measuring online ad performance is wrong
* How he is now helping global FMCG brands increase certainty in their marketing spend and save on average 18-21% of their advertising, increasing their profit margins by 3-21% and achieving 70-120% above industry average for open rates and click through rates.

I hope you find this episode as intriguing and eye opening as I did.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:</strong><br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So today I'm thrilled to have on the show Martin Lucas. Martin is the, he calls himself a mathematical psychologist, which we're gonna dive into a little bit more. But he's the founder of a company called Gap in the Matrix. And they specialise in cognitive data science. And Martin has spent the last four years looking at human decision making and actually what drives those decisions. And the reason I wanted to invite him on today is because he's working with big global brands, and agencies, to really unpick the messaging that brands are putting out into the world to their consumers, why it's not working and how they can do it better. He's got some very interesting and very impressive statistics about the impact that his company has made on those brands. And before I kind of hand over to you, Martin to sort of fill in the gaps, I wanted to read a testimonial given by Rory Sutherland for the work that Gap in the Matrix do. So Rory basically said, 'Gap in the Matrix is one of the tiny number of people in the world who understands that it's psychology, which offers the greatest potential to revolutionise marketing in the next 10 years and beyond'. So that's pretty impressive because Rory is very, very well known in our industry. So, Martin, over to you, would you mind spending a couple of minutes just talking about you, your background? And why you decided to do this research?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, well, thanks for having me on. First of all, Jenny, and I'm glad that you picked out the Rory quote because that meant a lot to me. That was a nice piece of validation. So just to give everybody a little bit of background in 2015 or so the business that I had the sort of investment property there had I did that entrepreneurial bet, just bet the house right. And I conducted a four year research and development project examining 'Why don't humans understand one another?' That was that was my main problem statement write everything from 'Why does Facebook not work when it explores all this data about your life that's invading your life? I predicted Cambridge analytical before it happens, all the way through to every consumer, in various different guises is very frustrated with how they're treated. Right? Simple questions. Genuine, when was the last time you got an email that really excited you or touched a personal need for you? Or you saw an advert on Facebook where you're like 'Oh, wow, I really need that, you know'. It's a very broken system. Right? Yeah. And that's what we wanted to pick apart - was not just to, you know, stand on a box and say there's issues, right, everybody knows those issues. We want to understand why. And we wanted to do it from the consumer perspective. So we harvested from 24 academic disciplines, taking the most relevant components to do with consumer decision making. We turned it into algebra, because algebra is problem solving. And from there, we were able to figure out how you should communicate to different groups, and all kinds of different weird, but very practical things like skills of desire, for example, or why somebody absolutely adores and craves and collects pink umbrellas and why other people don't care about it at all. So it's about as much of giving people more of what they want, and less what they don't in a very simple way. And one of the things that I think is very true and even further true today, and I think that's why a lot of global brands are working with us, is a lot of people are caught stuck in that top down architecture, right, which never accounted for the digital age. So what I mean by that is, here's a brand and a logo, we want to sell this product. So we shoved this product to everybody. So it tends to be much more logo orientated, not consumer oriented. And that's one of the key things of what we looked at about why don't humans understand one another. And it's a very kind of capitalist, selfish kind of build, and it's not working.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So this is, I mean, it's very, very powerful stuff. And you're absolutely right. I mean, you know, engagement is key, and every brand wants to, but this model is obviously it needs some work. So, I mean, can you share with us, because I know that you were talking about statistics of click through rates or engagement rates. Tell me a bit about those findings. From your analysis?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, I mean, this is a key anchor that we use in a lot of situations with agencies, brand sales, and our own sales activity, our own marketing activity. So is it's as true in 2015 as it was in 2021. The average click through rate on Facebook is 1.61%. On Google display ads, it's 1.91%, on Programmatic, which are called stalker ads, it's 0.035%. If you just combine three of those things together, which are just three minor parts of a much larger ecosystem of advertising and marketing, and that's $265 billion worth of ads that don't get interacted with and it's 4.82 trillion ads being sent to consumers where it's not just consumers don't like them. It's actually costing people loyalty and actually pushing people away from brands, because you could love a brand, that's how it works within the brain, like you have a predilection for, I like, Jenny, give me a brand that you love. Like if you're gonna shop and what's brand that you love?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Okay, so I'm into Trinny makeup.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Okay. And Trinny makeup, do you like every product that they do? Or is it just foundation? Is it face masks? Like, what comes to mind?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Interesting. I like their eye products, their eye shadows and lipstick, actually, they're best for cheek to lip.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Right, cool. So what happens is that we assume, this is me talking about the architecture in most brands, we assume that because you're interested in this brand, we can show you this product. Right? And that's what often happens is that because you've got an interest in it, we'll just show you a advert, what your brain does in a microsecond. 98% of your decisions are unconscious, right? That's your database of life and experience, right? What your brain does in a microsecond says, 'Do we like that brand?' Yes, or no? Yes, we do. Oh, but it's not for the type of product that we like, and then we're going to reject it. So even though you should be engaging with the Trinny products, you don't because of what they show you. And that's how the brain optimises what to do in any given moment. And that's like the microsecond of decision making.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Wow, it's so true. Because actually, for a mascara, for example, I don't know why this is all become about me, but I will go to Mac, which is a completely different brand. So tell me more about that 98% of what's driving our decisions,</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Right, so we humans are chemically driven creatures, right? So let's do a really quick download of we're going to do neuroscience, neurobiology and the psychology of meaning in the quickest way without it being all those things that made it sound like scientifically, BS, right. And I try to avoid any kind of BS with it. Because that was one of the things that I knew in 2015, you can't come to market talking about emotions and psychology and stuff, you have to give them driven outcomes, right. So here's the data of decision making. 95% of all of our decisions are based on emotions. Decisions only become conscious, in only 2% of the things that we experience. So we make 35,000 decisions a day. Most of them are unconscious, I'm not in the mood, I've already eaten,&nbsp; I don't like that. Or I like training, but it's the wrong type of stuff for me, right? Like, all of that happens is the unconscious. The conscious ones are the 2%, which is your emotional games, right. And the reason why humans are so driven by emotions, and we deal with 108 different types of emotions, we're so driven by emotions, because emotions connected into the reward centre in our brain. So we've all got a friend who thinks way, way, way too positively, right? Like the positive all the time, and most of the time, it's great, but sometimes you just like, just ease up, right? And then you've got a friend, that's that stuck thinking negatively, the glass is half empty all the time, right? Both of those people are getting the same chemical treatment within the brain. Right. So it's not about whether the unhappy person is having a good life, and the happy person is having a good life, right? They're both getting, they've got an architecture in their brain to get chemicals based on feeling good and feeling bad. And that's the system of how it operates. So that's what we humans are looking for. The reason that we're so driven by emotions is that motion gives us chemical releases. And it's perfectly natural. It's nature for us to be chemical kind of balanced machines, right?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>This is fascinating. I mean, I kind of want to know how you got all of this data like, you know, the statistics that you just shared a moment ago before you just said that data was, you know, 1.61%, 1.91%? How did you actually find out that, was that just because you said that you're a mathematical psychologist, which I don't know 100% what that means, but is it crunching those numbers? And how do you access that type of number?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yes, so mathematical psychology is a specialism within psychology. And it's actually a research capability. And luckily enough for me, it was built about decision making. So obviously, when I when I discovered it, for my purposes, I was like jackpot. This is exactly it, right. And basically, is not just a pure psychology field, it is actually research. So it gives you the capabilities to go and research in different dimensions and things right, combined with that, and I've got a very unusual skill for algebra. So I can connect lots of disparate dots and stuff and do it in quite a fast way. I wanted to train myself to make it more accurate. So how did I find those stats, a lot of hard work and perseverance. We spent six months hacking the Facebook advertising system. So we could figure out the back end of the number of adverts, versus their cost, versus Facebook's profit versus what people spend the money on. And then that got us into what larger brands were doing. And then you know, it's all just been a very progressive iterative thing, which is why give up four years of my life. Two years to do the builds and two years to do all the case study and testing and stuff, you know, and that included as well, because it's not just about data or data architecture or thinking or anything like that. I spent time with sixty five different agencies around the world. And what I was trying to figure out was what don't they know? What is the thinking model taught to marketeers and advertisers? Right? Because we're all conditioned to think in a certain way, right, depending on our cultural environment, conditioning or education. So of course, advertising marketing is currently following a model. And I wanted to understand whether that model worked and what the gaps were within it, because I believe that there were gaps and that I think that's where we sit today in quite a powerful position, just because of the number of global brands that we're working with. It's working well. It took us a while to figure out how to message that, but is working well, you know,</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I so want to dive into the 65 agencies and what you discovered, you know, in terms of importance, what was the first thing that you realise that really, you thought, wow, I had no idea that that was the case, because you've actually referred to it as a house of cards, and the broker model. So I want to dive into that, tell me more about the research specifically around how agencies are working.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And what I found is that you've got a system that's very much generated by the whim. The whim of the CMO, the whim of the creative director and just the whim of people, right. And I don't mean to call it the creative director, I'm not, I'm not criticising individual rules, I'm just saying in the agency model, you've got a lot of whim activity. And just today, I had to, I had to climb one of my business partners off a shelf of anger, because we did some analysis for a global business, right. And we're looking at the research that they've done. And it's a combination of survey data and sentiment research, right. And this is quite common for any brand, any agency, but what you end up with is a partial truth. And then you look at, so we've got 16 different decks from this client, because we're at the research stage, right? And the first deck has an assumption within it. The next step takes that assumption and sees our customers want this 'likely because' and the 'likely because' is based on the assumption, and then the decks progress and progress and by the time you get to the sixth deck, this is now a truth. And their entire system is now being anchored around this truth, which was never actually true in the first place.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Okay, so some people listening to this, because there's a lot of creative agencies that tune in, they'll say, but hold on a sec. You know, when we develop concepts and ideas,&nbsp; a lot of it is based on research, we do, you know, focus groups, we do, you know, observation techniques to see how people react. So a lot of kind of work goes in behind the scenes. So, tell me what you discovered about that part of the the way that the creative agency works.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So what we find is not creative agencies just, right, but looking at global brands and things as well, there was one example where they'd bought all the gear and got the testing done, via the creative agency, actually, where they, you know, you put on the headgear, and you measure the customer's emotional reaction to the advert, right. And they got all positives, but they didn't get sales when the car was launched. And what we've pointed out to them is that triggering them an emotion within somebody is not a decision, it's not relevance. It's just triggering an emotion in that moment. So the point about this is that when you look at market research, one of the world's largest advertising agencies, their Chairman, told me that he had a doubt about market research. And he went out and recruited four people and got a budget to recruit those four people, really just to find out, was the market research valid? Or was it just coming from a library and an assumption, and he found that it was coming from a library and an assumption. And that's not me saying that, that's like what the chairman of one of the largest advertising groups and I find consistent evidence of things like that. So it's not really criticising the creative agency model. It's more criticising the fact that if research is not based on why the consumer buys, then you're into a problem. And then in turn, that got us into modelling how different industries actually operate. So for example, we know in the automotive space, the vast majority of automotive companies are caught in a model of car, metal, engine, right? Think about every TV advert car, metal, engine, then once in a while price, car, metal, engine, price, right? That's your consistent model. That's not why people buy cars.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>When you say car, model, price, you know, when you see a car advert, for example, it's very sort of emotionally led in the fact that someone's speeding along and the wind's blowing through your hair to kind of want for a better term, but just describe to me what you mean by this, this bit about model, metal?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, you've kind of nailed it really, right. Most car adverts and campaigns are driven round somebody driving the car, right? The speed of that car, and the price of that car. Right? So basically, it's the look and feel and how somebody uses that car, right? And it works on that basis.When's the last time you sat in a car journey and were like, 'Oh my God, I feel so exhilarated because I'm sitting in my car?'. Right?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Never, this is my car right?!&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So what you've got is a model where people are trying to drive emotion. But emotion is not decision making. Emotion is a byproduct that either triggers engagement, or happens because of it. Whereas if you look at as an example, when we've done car launches, with the most recent car launch, we did, we had 453, actionable insights split up by various different biotypes. Right. And I'll give you two really key pieces of insight that break this car, metal engine model. Number one, is that the car is second only, and to some first, behind the bedroom, for what you would term as the psychological layer. Right. So if you think about your bedroom, generally you share it with others, sometimes people don't, whatever, right, and the car you might share with family and others. But generally, it's a space that you get to yourself, you can blare your music, you can throw your rubbish on the ground, or you can be really OCD and put it into a bin and you just organise it the way you want. Right. So it's very private, it's a closed door space, very similar to the bedroom. So the reasons and things that we want from a car run a lot deeper. And we've won a lot of business by saying to people that for some people, the main reason they buy a car is the cup holder. Right? It's not the only reason, but knowing, they've got a cup holder, because they're busy doing conference calls to and from work all the time they need a place to put their coffee, if you don't put that in the experience, they're less likely to do it. Right. So that's one version of it. Number two, we did a recent piece of work, we were looking at 27 European markets for a brand, and one of the markets, we identified that 67% of females, if they don't get an affirmation that they can do parallel parking, they're not going to consider that car. Right. And that's got nothing to do with the car, the size of the car or anything like that. And the reason for that is that cars are designed by men. And women generally tend to be slightly shorter than, than men, right? So parallel parking is the thing that bothers a significant amount of women. And so if they can't get affirmation of it, they're not going to feel as secure and they're not going to consider your car. If you don't mention the cup holder or the parallel parking, people are just left to their own devices. And that's the consumer issue. It's you're not addressing things that they actually want. Does that mean we do a TV advert with a cup holder in parallel parking? No, no. But, it does mean that we can do more things with other communication channels, which is what the automotive industry doesn't do like a lot of industries that stuck with big TV advert. And then it's just selling things on price, in the other channels.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I'm glad you said that. Because I was just thinking, as you said, you know, what you're talking about is features, which obviously have that ability to make the person want to buy it. Because as you said, like you're triggering engagement with the ad. And advertising is a one message medium, so you don't want to be crowding it with lots of different messages. So you're absolutely right. But that doesn't mean to say that you've got the right engagement trigger, to then translate into a buying decision. Right? And that's essentially what you're saying. This is absolutely fascinating. So I'm kind of thinking if I'm an agency, listening to this and thinking, okay, I see what you're saying, did you in your research of 65 agencies find any agency that came close to, you know, acknowledging this or working in a way that was a lot more powerful?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Oh, my work with Rory Sutherland was obviously quite key, right? Because I was attracted to him. I saw him talking at an event, right. And I didn't come from the industry. I came from the algebra world, right. And he stood up on stage and talked about why Uber won based on human control, and I'd written the same paper about this. So I went up to this chap that I didn't know and that's how I ended up meeting him. And then we just ran with our relationship from there. Up until that point, I didn't know about Ogilvy change, actually. And I found Ogilvy change was before Ogilvy did its reorganisation, I thought that they were moving towards that kind of capability, because they had more of the behavioural science and the behavioural economics component of it. But in the general sense, I think that to be super clear, I'm not criticising, particularly the creative agency or the advertising agency model, where we are more coming from when I think about what we do with agencies, is we're giving them more accurate truth based consumer knowledge, right, so that they can then create based on that truth. That's that difference, that we're giving actionable, truth based knowledge of the consumer.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I heard you interviewed in another podcast, Martin, and you mentioned the way that agencies used to work. Can you tell us a bit about that?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, it's my favourite thing actually, it's amazing that you brought that up! So when, of course you're trying to find out over the years I've been trying to find out 'How does thinking work in a consumer context', right? 'What made advertising great, what's made it's more challenging? How much has the digital world affected it?' Right? And one of the coolest things that I found was that the golden age of advertising from the 30s to the 50s, market research was done by an employee inside the agency, and they were a psychologist. So market research was based on that deep truth. And it was based on focusing on the boss of the operation, which I still believe is the case is the female. And I think that the more that the advertising and marketing world has specialised, it's over specialised. So again, a different chairman from a different advertising group, but it's still one of the big houses, said to me that you felt the biggest issue is when they separated media and advertising. Because once they did, that, they lost the connection to be able to control how to communicate to people at the right moment, and the part that sits round it as well. So I think that the golden age of advertising has got a really positive component to it. And why did they fire the psychologists? It was actually when, you know, in the 50s, the advertising body said, 'You've got to stop saying that smoking is good for you because we now know that it isn't'. In that classic way, business world overreacted and got rid of its market research, got rid of its psychologists. And then we began this path towards the more specialised capability of research that isn't inside the agency. So sometimes this capitalism efficiency can end up costing us what made us good in the first place, in my opinion.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So nowadays, because most, you know, a lot of advertising is online, and we can, everything's trackable isn't it? And tell me what your research kind of uncovered about, you know, how we are measuring the success because, you know, many agencies do have their measures in place to see what's working, what's not. And then, you know, maybe they do split testing or optimization as they go. So, tell me a bit about, like, how you've seen, you know, I think you called it the attribution model of measuring, and you didn't, tell me a bit about what you think about the attribution model.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>The problem with the attribution model, it's similar to the finance model of 'LIFO and FIFO' or 'Last in, First out' that type of stuff, right? Anytime you come across multiple models, trying to solve the same thing, it means that nobody actually knows the truth. Right. So if you're saying that 70% of our attribution model is based on first contact, and somebody else's 70 percents based on last contact, and somebody says, well, we're going to divide it equally between the eight pieces of contact, it means that you don't know what works, you don't know the impact, you don't know how decision making actually works based on your consumers. And it's a very fair reason why people don't know it, is because what we're trying to do is to create a model, which is one size fits all. And I believe that we've compounded it to make it even worse over the past 20 years, because the digital age is creating assumption, within assumption on top of research that is creating bias within bias. And you've got all that together. And it's just quite a big cluster swear word.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Thank you for not swearing you know you can by the way. That's really interesting, because obviously, the click through rate is, you know, all views, number of views, click through rate, these are the kinds of measures that many people use nowadays. So would you say that that's not an indicator? Like, what's your thoughts on that? I mean, if someone clicks on an ad, and then clicks through to the page, is that an indication of a buying signal?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I believe, it is an indication of a buying signal. It's just not an absolute. So what you've got at the moment, is Facebook salespeople are literally trained to be, and they're out there telling all kinds of large brands, don't worry about clicks, worry about impressions, because impressions mean that people will eventually come back to you. And that is like horseshit, since you gave me permission to swear, sorry. I mean, that's just not true. But it's a good sales strategy by Facebook because they're Facebook, right? So the problem that you've got today is that nobody wants to raise their hand in a very siloed, blame free society and say, I look after this particular silo and I don't think that this silo works, or do you know, I mean, it's like the architecture of it all. If you think about human behaviour, there's, in the world of psychology and the world of behavioural science in the world, the human science, there's a commonality and I always look for commonalities because that's how historians do things right if they find, you know, after a battle the king says this and a monk wrote here and a peasant that could write wrote about it, right, let's say they find out the truth. And I think the same thing applies. So humans have got five dimensions that makes them human right across all these all these areas. And it's language, it's religion, it's music, it's art, and it's tool making. And what's going on in the world today is that we've started to rely too much on the tool makers. So because the software says this or because the data says this or we can do this big data project, you can't think of somebody liking a page or visiting a page as an absolute. And that's what Facebook builds its look alike audiences from, that's why Programmatic falls on its butt because it's got a point .035% click through rate. And what people are saying is, well, if we throw enough stuff, you know, for every 1000 that we send, three and a half people are going to click it. Right? What is that actually costing you the other way around? And I think that's part of the problem, some of the stuff that we're doing with brands away from advertising and marketing, and you could debate that this is advertising and marketing in itself, is asking questions like, what does it cost you Armani, when you sell jeans, stacked high as the rafters on a plain, plastic table in Costco? What does that cost you when Armani customers actually see that? We're selling tracksuits in JD Sports, we wrote a paper about this, it's known as thin slicing. And what it basically means is that you you thin slice away somebody's perception of you, so that it changes. And the Costco one was a personal one for me, as my wife jokes I had like a little toddler tantrum about it was slamming these jeans up and down in a Costco. And I've gone from being a loyal Armani customer, and I don't think I'm a snob, I certainly didn't grow up as a snob, but I've never bought an Armani product since because it's just a minister value, you know?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Your perception of the brand?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Right.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Do you separate, because there are some agencies that focus on brand strategy? And really sort of that higher level? What, what is the meaning of this brand? What's it bringing out? And there's other agencies that focus more on the execution of the messages and the maybe more, you know, promotional side of, of advertising? So do you see any difference? Or are you seeing the same problems occurring for both?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think, brand strategy as a general rules got a little bit stuck in its ways, because the world has been overtaken by performance marketing. So everybody's looking for number based stuff. And I think and I've done this with brand strategy people, as agencies, sorry. I've said that the time for them to look at branding is performance branding, right? If you understand what that brand means, what sits underneath that what its products means why people buy it, who's interested in it, all the kind of stuff that sits around it, right? So what branding agencies should be doing, is the top down architecture that says, okay, Facebook advertisers, okay, Creative, okay, TV, okay, Mass Media, wherever you are, right? I want you to have the space to do your creative work, but I want you to follow these rules. Right? And that could be language, not storytelling structure, but certainly the essence of the story, right? And guess what happens if you do performance branding, the consumer gets continuity, in all of those channels. And that's one of the things where, you know, we get well paid for what we do. And we work with global brands, so I'm not complaining about it, but there are times pretty much every other day where I'm just like, some of the things that we do just seem so logical. Why aren't people thinking about this? But that's the structure of business, right? We're caught in silos a little bit too much.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Give me an example.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think, the persona stuff is probably one that comes to mind purely because we've been working on it today. Where you're looking at these personas, and you're like, this is not why people buy, right? If you're going to buy an engagement ring, it's got to be wrapped into either an emotional gain and a story, either an ego lead reason that you're actually doing it and how you want to be seen, or how you want to be treated with the loved one, right? So it's kind of we call it behavioural elastic. Right? So how much meaning does your purchasing go into? In this case, we're talking about an engagement ring, right? So do you want to just impress the person that you're asking? Do you actually want to impress yourself, which is really common, on the ego side? Or are you trying to impress your wider group of friends by that engagement? Right, and nothing is as pure as putting people in each of these boxes. That's the thing. It's all what we call the skills of self. Right? So desire, loyalty, categorization, preferences, all of that depends on the person the moment we did the campaign over the over Christmas, where we did CRM based on the weather. Right? So when the when the wind was above a certain level, we sent a message to people in Scotland about a winter jacket. And we sold out, this is a global brand, a billion dollar brand, sorry, in the UK, and they sold out their stock. Right? Because we made it about the real life, what we call the 2D architecture, what's going on in somebody's life, why are they doing it? If you understand all the scales, I think I've gone off a bit piste from what you asked me but...</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>No, it's fine.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It's like this. This is just all the, the thing for me is like, if you're trying to take a brand and come up with one advert that serves everybody, then you're wasting your time. And if you've got the opportunity and let's just do the basic domestic TV right, ITV has always had the opportunity for you to do localised advertising. And we just worked with one of the global top five entertainment brands, and they do a lot of children's toys, right. And one of the things that we did was code it altogether so we could see, which were the characters that people were interested in based on different regions in the UK. Right. So it means that when they do their adverts, including TV, they lead with the products that the regions are most interested to, because that's how you trigger attention and get the person looking at it. And that's your job done. That's how engagement works. It's not about the story and the feelings of the brand. It's like, show me something that's relevant to me, do it really quickly, then you can trigger my emotion because now you've got my emotion to purchase, unlike when we're talking about the car advert, just because you make me feel happy doesn't mean that I'm ever going to like your car.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So it feels like quite a comprehensive approach to making sure that we are engaging with the customer. I mean, do you think people should throw out personas altogether?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yes, I would love them to. One of the most difficult things that I have is that I was trying to be direct, but in a very civil kind of educational way, right? Because you know, babies and bath waters and all that kind of stuff. But personas is really difficult. Like, if a business is architected most of its staff around personas, and here's my biggest issue with personas, Dave, is 35, he's got an income of 38K. He likes Coventry football club. He's a big Doctor Who fan and he spends lots of time on Instagram, right? That's a persona that we came across last week, right? And and that's describing an individual. And when you do that anyone that then works on that it's over prescribed and it doesn't make any sense. And it doesn't relate to what you're trying to sell them. And one of the things that I said to again, one of the agencies and one of the really big ones, was that they'd spent two years combining seven personality tests into one, right. And it wasn't that long after Cambridge Analytica and I said, well, you've got a risk with Cambridge Analytica, and they said, but here's the actual problem is that I could understand everything, about Jenny's life, right? Just like the personality test. That's what Facebook do. I understand all these things. Jenny once liked her pink umbrella. She'd liked a Mercedes page, she likeed Doctor Who once, you like Coventry FC, right? Behind the scenes Jenny could have liked the Coventry FC page, because they got beat six nil, and she wanted to have a laugh at Coventry Football Club. Right? And she wanted a friend to see that she'd liked it on Facebook, right? And she ticked the pink umbrella because she wanted to show it to a friend, right? Or she looked at a particular car because she absolutely hated it. There's a variety of different reasons, you can't use that those things as assumptions, right? And what we said was that you combine the seven personality tests into one, right? Do you know what your biggest missing thing is? You understand all this stuff about Jenny, but you still don't know how she thinks and feels about the product you're trying to sell her? So what's the point? And that's where we've cut through a lot of stuff you know?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I want to take you back one step, because you mentioned that you gave a presentation or talk about Uber and human control. And I don't know the story. So I'd love if you could share, because I'm sure it's going to be insightful.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>You well I mean, Uber's had a lot of negative press and stuff like this. So let's go this is going back like three or four years before they got all the sexist stuff and all the workers rights and stuff like that. And what I'd identified was that we've got, we've got 300 plus algorithms, right, which is all about the mathematics of decision making, the algebra of decision making, we've got a 296 part problem solving model, right? We call it neuro strategy, because it is about thinking and stuff but really, it's a problem solving model where, as we've taken those 24 academic disciplines, the number one thing, the thing that it opens with, which is such a simple but deep question is what problem you're trying to solve. Right? Such a simple question like everything is solving a problem. A pink umbrella is not necessarily just because it's raining, the pink umbrella is because you want to look cool on your way to work. You want to stand out in the streets of London for example, right? I've don't have a pink umbrella, but I've got an umbrella that makes me stand out because I'm a show off. Right. That's it. That's why I like umbrellas. I don't think I've actually ever erected an umbrella, no matter how hard it's raining. I don't even know if that's the right word. I don't think we talk about erecting umbrellas. You see what I mean? If I buy it because I'm a dandy and I want to show off with the umbrella. But, I've lost my school of thought what are we talking about? Oh, sorry. So and what problem do you solve? This is the beauty of what Uber did. Pre Uber, Jenny and I are sitting in a pub, right? And we're supposed to be going for dinner. Jenny gives me a slightly dirty look. And I'm like, 'Oh god, I'm sorry. I'll call them again'. I call them again. Taxi company- 'Be there in five minutes'. It's like ordering a pizza. Right? I'll be there in five minutes. Come off the phone. Jenny's scowling at me a little bit and I feel bad even though what can I do? I can't control the taxi. Right? But I then start to get bothered because I don't be like being late for things even though it's just a restaurant, right? What Uber did, Martin and Jenny are sitting in exactly the same place. And I hold up my phone and I'm like, 'Look, Jenny, it's two minutes away. Do you want to do a shot?' and Jenny laughs, goes 'Okay, let's do a shot right?' Because now we've got human control. The problem that Uber solved was one of human control. We went from being frustrated and not feeling in control, even though it's just a taxi. What I said was very fair, the frustration didn't know when it was coming didn't feel in control. If you're paranoid, like how many times do you go to almost call the taxi, when you're waiting for the 6am one to go in your two weeks summer holiday, you know, I mean, these are real things. And Uber solved the human control capability. What they marketed on was the cheapness of it, and the cost of it, but actually what the problem they solved was, taking an existing market, and they just did it with more human control.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Amazing, I hadn't even thought of it like that. And, and actually now, that sort of technology of tracking how far something is away from you, it's actually becoming more mainstream, isn't it in different kind of instances? So I'm just wondering, like for, tell me a bit about who you're helping now, like you mentioned global brands. But you know, which sounds really impressive, but why were they attracted to you?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think the main thing is that we're giving them answers to questions that each of the individuals, particularly senior personnel, are frustrated about because their personnel or their suppliers, are giving them things that they know is not quite right but they don't know why. And we can answer those difficult 'why' questions? Why does our customer buy? We've even got an algorithm called the science of cool, that uses object mathematics, which sounds fancy, and it's the basis of psychoanalysis and therapy, it's the Freud method. And we've adapted that and said, right, what's the other dimensions about that pink umbrella, right? Martin's not interested in the pink umbrella. But we now know that he will never open an umbrella, he wants a dandy type of umbrella, with a little wooden monkey head on top, which is the one that I do have, right? Right, we find out all those dimensions about what that object means to people. And that's how we know how to communicate to different groups because the meaning is not just the physical product, it's the psychology, it's what it means to people, it could be an impulse product, we've got the mathematics of impulse, which fascinates me, like the average person in the UK spends £81 a week on impulse shopping. Right. And that means that the average person is going to spend that money on a Korean takeaway, on a McDonald's, on a pink umbrella or on a pair of six pairs of Armani jeans based on Costco. So the point is that it's not about how loyal they are to you, it's about whether they've got awareness that their impulse shopping should go into you. Right, because it could go into McDonald's, or it could go into jeans, or it could go into Trinny makeup. Right. It's all that kind of stuff, really?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And are you saying that this is something that only you can help with? I mean, who comes close to even helping because I can understand what you're saying there was the themes and the holes in the model? You know, how can we make sure that we have a really comprehensive approach to our messaging, our targeting or even how we then further optimise either a campaign or our messaging? You know, I can see that there are, and how do clients make decisions about what they're going to go with and what they don't? If we're kind of looking back at the market research and even questioning whether the right insight went into the development of any kind of messaging or so, who have you come across or what have you come across, that even comes close to doing this?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>The, we haven't found anything where anyone's architected decision making or combined a bunch of different disciplines to understand that right. So we do know that I believe that we're in a very strong, unique position. You've obviously got a lot of people that do specialisms on e-commerce, on optimization and things like that, they tend to be more digital focused, and we work with some of them, because it helps improve the function. But again, what we're giving them is the here's the communication, here's the data, here's the strategy to actually use, and then they can do the technical toolmaking component of it. So I do say that like completely, honestly, that I've been hunting, for years to make sure that, that I'm not just tricking myself, right. But now we're starting to see that tipping point with the large brands, I think we've got the proof that, it's only us that can do it. it's just the question of getting the word out, I think.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I mean, I know that from what we've discussed in the past, you're pushing on an open door here because a lot of brands have been inviting you in and seeking you out. So I'm sure this is just the tip of the iceberg to how popular this services is but can you share some examples of some of the results you've had so far?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, so if I was to run you through, so at the moment, we've got two global automotives. One's a car launch and one's like an entire region, re-strategization. One of the US's top retailers, one of the US has top bridal retailers, a lot of global companies like that. I'd love to have more fashion because that's why I started all of this in the first place, because that's what I'd love to do. But our mean average, across 56 case studies of big brands and things, is average save in the region of 26% on advertising and efficiencies, because if you know what people want, when they want it, you also know when not to bother them. So that's a big savings thing. Profit growth, with three to 21%. So 3% per billion dollar company with 62 million, right? So 3% is significant. And then metrics, we average 70 to 120% above industry for like, open rates, click through rates, that kind of stuff.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Wow, that's pretty impressive. And just explain Martin, like how, at what point brands tend to invite you in?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>One of two ways, what we've done is that we're obviously like everybody looking for long term partners and stuff. And if we implement our matrix software, that puts us right in the middle of being able to help them with a little bit of everything right and a little bit of automation. But we do an immediate paid test. So that because a lot of people are frustrated with having to sign up for something that they don't know whether it works or not. Right. And we're fighting against that by saying, well, let's just do an initial paid test and things like that, as well. And we find that that works super well for us as a point of engagement, you know?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And do you equally work just as well with agencies, because obviously, agencies are the conduit to working on several brands or, you know, multiple brands? And I would have thought that you're kind of like a bit of a secret weapon for an agency to, you know, partner with you in some way that they can then help their clients. So do you work in multiple ways like that?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, I mean, what we do, when we find the right agency partners, we put our USPs to be their USPs. Like sometimes they'll say, we're working with Gap in the Matrix. And sometimes we just let them white label it we don't mind. When it works super well, when we're really locked in like we did one with a global pharmaceutical, did an addressable market model and a lot of psychology stuff like solving problems that they hadn't been able to solve for years. And it meant that the agency made a lot more money than what we did. We're totally fine with that. So agencies do the markup on our cost, but it generally leads to a lot more business for them. And think about what I said about the brands, the brand strategy or performance branding, right, you don't have to be a branding agency to take positive control of an entire client. And that's what we do is just do the little segments with it. So our testing becomes their testing. And so it tends to work quite well. But, the agency world it's a little bit of shaky ground so I find this is kind of based on trust. So somebody shows us a little bit of leg and we did that in return, and it works out well, then we build a proper partnership. And if we don't, then we don't, we've got a rule inside myself, my two business partners that we don't work on back money. What we mean by that is that, I wouldn't say we're all long enough in the tooth, but probably enough wisdom from failure, which is how I define wisdom, right, the experience of mucking stuff up. If we're not comfortable, or we don't believe that the opportunity is authentic, then we'll just back out of it.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I totally understand that very, very, yeah, having people that are aligned with your values is so key to business, I think, especially nowadays. Tell me if there's an agency listening thinking, well, I've got both B2B brands that I'm working with and B2C, I mean, as you said, 95% of decision making is emotional. Would you say that, you work with both, either and it works the same?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It works. I mean, we do have more on the B2C side. Right. And that's deliberately part of our strategy. But my three previous businesses have all been B2B. We've deliberately designed our model, particularly the 296 part problem solving to be about B2B as well. So the moment we are doing some account based marketing, a lot of lead generation stuff, a lot of sales meets marketing type activity for&nbsp; B2B . So it's a very, it's a very open door. It just depends on what type of B2B it is.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Okay, perfect. And as you said before, I think that, you know, people can invite you in as early as as product idea stage right, to make sure that their strategy is solid from the beginning?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, we've got them, on our board there's Noelle Dye and Noelle, she's pretty much the godmother of design thinking like she invented it, but it's never been a field that's been credited to a person but she's done so many innovation projects, and she's just got a beautiful mind, you know, somebody that just knows so much but can say things in such a succinct way. And she invented the Swiffer for P&amp;G, which is a half billion a year product. Um, so we've got we've got that range and capability about pre design. And the reason why we created The Science of Cool, which is an offshoot of the algebra we've built, it's called The Rational Mathematics, and the Science of Cool actually allows you to know, don't create this product because you might be able to sell it but it's actually going to be really low in profitable and it's going to push other people away. So if you think about some of your favourite fashion brands, how often do they just have some really dross stuff. And the average for a retailer based on RRP, they should be selling for 83%, average, right. That's how the profit's driven, and a lot of brands are now dropping down to 67%. So you know how it feels like there's a sale on all the time, that's started to manifest itself in people's bottom line. So actually, knowing what to produce and what not to produce is obviously a very, very powerful thing, because we're moving into more of a profit driven world rather than just a revenue driven one, I think.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>On that point, you mentioned a couple of times, He psychology and She psychology? Yeah. Can you explain a little bit about that? Because I think it's a fascinating sort of interpretation of how you've seen the changes over the last few years.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So just to give a bit of background, we've looked at every variable that affects how people think. Right? And a lot of this is unconscious, right? So do we know that if you take, so we've done the culture of every country in the world, right, so there's one of the variables about how people think, so the reason why British people for non British people are difficult to deal with, is that we've got a really high individualism score and we actually map very similar to the United States. However, consciously, we think that we're conservative, and we say that we're conservative, but our actions don't match what we say. And this is why people find it difficult to deal with British people, right? That's one example of these conditions that we're not aware of. Why would we know that right? And He versus She psychology is very much a big brand issue. So we're not talking about gender, we're talking about a thinking model. Right, and He psychology is defined as lacking emotion, tends to be quite practical, trends be quite numbers focused, right? She psychology, again a thinking model, not just the gender, She psychology is more emotional intelligence, the relationship between things connecting the dots. She psychology is storytelling, is the golden age of advertising. And yet the vast majority of brands are caught in He psychology model - car, metal engine, car metal engine, right? Practical, numbers oriented, lacks emotion, right, until you get to the TV that makes people feel happy, even though they don't want to buy the car. So when we talk about equality in the world, She psychology is naturally more present in women, but it's not an absolute. And I'm really careful about how I say that, because previous things that I've done, I've actually been, I've had some negative messages from women talking about this type of stuff. And I'm actually I mean it, it's the opportunity for how brands should be behaving as a thinking model. For women that have naturally have emotional intelligence and men, you're good storytellers. And that's what the brands should be doing. We need to go back to the past with a little bit of influence, and using technology and digital in the correct ways. But it's a She psychology driven world, it always will be, we just lost touch with that a little bit. And I think it's, you know, a little bit too much capitalism. I'm all for money. But if you make that your most dominant object, you're not going to win.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>No, thank you for explaining that. This really, I had never come across that until I heard you talk about it on another on another podcast. So, Martin, I mean, what needs to change now, for brands? I mean, what would you advise? I mean, there's agencies listening to this thinking, Oh, my goodness, sounds like something that I would really, you know, I need to know more about or, but in the future, what what do you think needs to change, with the way that we are operating?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think that, I think it's about how we think about what we do. I think it's for any agency personnel to just take them back to what their, what their dreams were, you know, when they first started out, when they had that initial success when it wasn't just about awards&nbsp; or trying to be more than what they wanted to be. I think it's about understanding your customers. And what does that actually mean? If you understand your customers, you understand the decision making. And you can learn who your customers are through language, through dialect, through accent, you can speak to them clearly more directly. Think about every touchpoint that you've got with them. Rather than just trying to shove product down our necks and price down our necks. The really ironic thing is that when we focus on price and product, it ends up costing us profit and product sales. Do you think that's the kind of either needs? So I encourage any agency personnel apart from obviously hiring us, is just to go back to that, a little bit of dream state with a little bit more accuracy about who is your customer and how you're going to serve them? Because bias is the biggest problem and in everything in life, I find that time and time again.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I presumed that that was a big part of your research, wasn't it, bias?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, I mean, it's everywhere. Creative bias, assumptive bias bias within bias of research, bias within biases, sentiment analysis. You've got a lot of disciplines trying to prove that their thing is the absolute answer. And then it's picked up by the person at the brand or the agency, because that's their job, as the absolute answer. Right? And whenever you see some of the keywords like, this is likely to mean, that's when you're in trouble. Because it goes from this is likely to mean, to be in a fact, to be in a strategy.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Powerful stuff. Okay, so I'm thinking about now agencies and brand owners listening to this thinking, this all makes sense, I can see that there's an opportunity here for me to maybe look at what I'm doing to optimise. Who are the best people to contact you? And how can people contact you?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So our rule with agencies is we want to speak to people that are either heads over C level, depending on the size of the agency. And that's just being direct because we deal with big ticket brands, and we know the decision making level that we need to speak at. So that's just the reality of life, right, and from lessons that we've learned, but I'm always up for any kind of problem as a discussion. But that's fun for me, what's your problem, what you're working on? Well, here we go. Here's some insights that will help you but we can't work with you, or this would be amazing, let's work together.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Fantastic. Well, Martin, honestly, I mean, is there anything else that you can share with the creative industry, or agencies in general, any piece of advice or pieces of advice or words of wisdom before we go?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think at the end of the day, forget about the word mathematics in front of it. And even psychology in itself, right? Philosophy is like the forefather, foremother of everything, right? It's always been about how do people think and how do we define the world around us? And that's what we need to return to. And it's difficult in the modern world. It's difficult for all of us, because we're being forced to do things quicker, faster, cheaper, right? What I'm saying is when you slow down, you get things to be better, faster and quicker, right? You've just got to slow down and give yourself a moment to think about who you're serving and what you do and don't know or what you're assuming that you know.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Nice parting words, Martin, honestly, this has been fantastic. Time has just whizzed by. I'm very conscious of your time, we've we've hit the hour. So, thank you so much for coming on the show. And no doubt I'm sure, you'll get some inquiries from agencies who want you in their corner. So thank you so much.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Martin &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Thanks for having me on Jenny.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2021 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/rwjk0128.mp3" length="60507867" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/b6848b30-8574-11eb-a8be-77d24fef68b9/b6848c80-8574-11eb-adad-a5ebb2385d93.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3025</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode Martin Lucas, Mathematical Psychologist and Founder of the company Gap In the Matrix is about to blow the lid off many of the sacred cows in the agency world.

He has spent four years studying why humans don't understand humans and how brands are missing a trick when it comes to engaging their customers and understanding why they make purchasing decisions.

Rory Sutherland, Vice Chairman of Ogilvy said this about Martin's company:

"Gap In the Matrix is one of a tiny number of people in the world who understands that it is psychology which offers the greatest potential to revolutionise marketing in the next ten years and beyond.”

In this fascinating episode he shares the results of his four year study and drops bombshells like:

* Why $265bn of online ads don't get interacted with and the average Facebook ad click through rate is a tiny 1.61%, Google display ad 1.91% and programmatic 0.035% 
* Why measuring impressions isn't useful
* Why brand strategy is stuck in its ways and should be called "performance branding"
* Why defining "personas" for a brand isn't helpful
* Why the attribution model for measuring online ad performance is wrong
* How he is now helping global FMCG brands increase certainty in their marketing spend and save on average 18-21% of their advertising, increasing their profit margins by 3-21% and achieving 70-120% above industry average for open rates and click through rates.

I hope you find this episode as intriguing and eye opening as I did.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>In this episode Martin Lucas, Mathematical Psychologist and Founder of the company Gap In the Matrix is about to blow the lid off many of the sacred cows in the agency world.

He has spent four years studying why humans don't understand humans and how brands are missing a trick when it comes to engaging their customers and understanding why they make purchasing decisions.

Rory Sutherland, Vice Chairman of Ogilvy said this about Martin's company:

"Gap In the Matrix is one of a tiny number of people in the world who understands that it is psychology which offers the greatest potential to revolutionise marketing in the next ten years and beyond.”

In this fascinating episode he shares the results of his four year study and drops bombshells like:

* Why $265bn of online ads don't get interacted with and the average Facebook ad click through rate is a tiny 1.61%, Google display ad 1.91% and programmatic 0.035% 
* Why measuring impressions isn't useful
* Why brand strategy is stuck in its ways and should be called "performance branding"
* Why defining "personas" for a brand isn't helpful
* Why the attribution model for measuring online ad performance is wrong
* How he is now helping global FMCG brands increase certainty in their marketing spend and save on average 18-21% of their advertising, increasing their profit margins by 3-21% and achieving 70-120% above industry average for open rates and click through rates.

I hope you find this episode as intriguing and eye opening as I did.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What's the role of a digital agency project manager?, with Nadine Schofield</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/vnwv9zv8</link>
      <itunes:title>What's the role of a digital agency project manager?, with Nadine Schofield</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>21</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">81xzryz1</guid>
      <description>This episode is for you if you're in a digital agency project management role or are aspiring to work in project management in an agency. It's also for you if you're an agency leader who is looking to ensure the role of the project manager runs smoothly.

Nadine Schofield is the Founder of Project Management on Demand and she'll be sharing with us:

* The core (hard and soft) skills you need to be an effective project manager
* Where agencies go wrong with approaching project management
* The differences between an agile, waterfall and wagile way of working
* Differences between the role of the account manager and project manager and how they can work together efficiently
* The downsides of the hybrid role where the project management and account management function are in a combined role
* Some suggestions for how to decide which project management system to use in your agency
* How working from home has affected the project management role in agencies
* How a temporary project manager can be inserted into the agency for one off projects on an ad-hoc basis
* Some of the core processes you need for the project management role in your agency</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:<br></strong>&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So Nadine, welcome to the show. Would you mind spending a few minutes just talking about you what you do, how you help companies?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Thanks for having me. And yeah, <a href="https://www.projectmanagementod.co.uk/">Project Management On Demand</a> is a project management consultancy. We work in the digital space. And we work on all sorts of different projects within agencies, ad agencies, but also client side. The type of projects can vary from content management systems to e-learning to augmented reality to apps, so anything online digital displays also some above the line work as well. The four core areas of project management on demand are on demand project management help. So somebody may say we have a project, we've got three days a week in the budget to service that project. And then we service it Monday to Friday, nine to five, but within that budget, and then if we don't use the time, we don't bill it. Full Time project management, obviously, we also coach and mentor project managers or groups around project managers. So as I said to you previously, sometimes account managers who may be on smaller projects, but need to have an understanding of those fundamentals around running a project successfully. And we also do process consultancy where we come into businesses, and we look at how they currently run and manage their projects with regards to systems, the team, the team structure, processes, type of project, type of clients, and then we can help work with those businesses to create a roadmap to then go in and then help them over time, better run and manage projects. And for me, the core thing about that is a happy team, but also better, bigger margins within the agency.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think it's fantastic, and such a comprehensive range of services that you offer. And I'm so glad that we found each other. And I'm very grateful to Lucy Snell for introducing us because people do come to me and say, do you do project management training? And or, do you know, any project managers? So I always kind of send them your way. And what would you say is the biggest problem that companies come to you to fix?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It's not always a fix. I mean, sometimes we do get flown into crisis projects. So we just have to dive straight in and rescue which is always fun. But it's different things. It may be that it's a smaller agency, and they don't actually have any project managers. So they might kind of go, we've got big projects come in, have you got somebody that can help and just come in and sort of start helping us? And then obviously, the other thing is about process. And I think we can talk about that a bit later, what with everything that's happened recently, in the last year, people are having to work a bit smarter in different ways, but not in the office kind of going right, I'll finish that in a minute, I'll hand it over. So everybody has to be a bit smarter on the systems and processes. So a lot more of that work is coming in these days,</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I can imagine I know how busy you are. And tell me because I know your background is in project management, obviously, that's why you're so skilled and proficient in what you do now. But tell me what you think are the the core skills of a really great project manager?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well obviously to be organised is a fantastic thing. To be a really good communicator, that obviously really helps. And that's with your internal team, and with all levels within that team. And then obviously client side with stakeholders and senior management people. But also that level of just actually liking people and getting on with people. Because if you're not that sort of people person, then you're not going to be able to get the best out of your team when running a project. Good under pressure is obviously you know, a key as well. Negotiation skills that obviously come with, you know, the more years under your belt that you have, and financial acumen as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It's a lot. It's a big ask, actually for this role, isn't it? Because they are the linchpins of the agency. They're kind of the engine room, aren't they? They're making sure that everything happens. And where do you think I mean, you have agencies approaching you all the time and companies approaching you all the time. Where do you think companies get it wrong with project management? What do you kind of typically see, and you think, oh, here we go again, like what are some of the things?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, some some bad scoping. I mean bad scoping is an absolute typical one. I think it always circles background to what is your process? What's your process so if you're going in to, if you have a requirement in and they say we need this, you will probably,&nbsp; should do discovery phase to understand exactly what this is before we then go into your full scoping. Because there's always going to be things coming up that you're understanding the clients understanding might be different that could be out of the blue, or what we thought you were doing the copywriting, and you know, you think we're doing the copywriting. So scoping is fundamental. Not being firm with your clients can also cause you a bit of a cropper, of course, you have to be fair and build that relationship. And that's where we'll talk about later about how the project management and the account manager can work nicely together. And change control management. So having the experience to understand where your team is, where the project is, going back to your statement of work, which says this is what we're doing, to then say to the client, this is out of scope, now we can do it for you, but we need to make addendums to that document, and then we need to charge you more money. So that's really key, I think a lot of the time, that's about confidence as well, because the client might say we've got fixed budget. So, okay, so we've costed it to this, say we might have some contingency in it. So I think it's really key to, I mean, obviously, you have to have the experience to do that. And you have to have the competence to do that. But that's one of the really key things that needs to be kept on top as a project manager, but you would, and you should work very closely with your account manager on that.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>You said one of the key things is process. And I'm sure, like myself, you work with all different types of agencies, for example, from small just starting up to big established, and everything in between. I think process, like you say is really key, isn't it? What do you advise smaller agencies that are perhaps, you know, 2,3,4,5,6 people that are just on that growth trajectory? And they are looking to establish process like how important, is it? And maybe I'm putting you on the spot a little bit here. But if they're looking for recommendations for a good project management system, do you have like, go to systems that you say, this one,</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So, a couple of questions there. So with regards to process, every agency has a process, no matter how small or how large you are, it's just at the beginning stages, when you're 5,6,7 you might not physically written it down. But you're such a tight team, that you all know what's going on and who's doing what, when even whether you may not have a project plan or you know, but you will, you will know how you work. The key thing about process and implementing it is when that team is going to grow larger, also, because then there's too many people to just kind of say, right, I finished that, and then I send it over, I'll be ready for the next bit. But the other thing is that also, as you grow larger, you'll be taking people in who've been in other work environments and agencies, and they all have their way of doing it. So they'll kind of think that their way is the right way, or the way that it should be done. So that can then cause problems. So if you can then have you know, your playbook as such, for when people join the agency today, this is how we work. This is what we do. This is our culture, this is our process, these are the systems, then you're on the way to being able to manage projects in a more successful way without things falling down somewhat.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>&nbsp;Yeah.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Regards systems, it's, the thing is, there's so many systems out there, I got asked by a client, I think she emailed, she always emails me at the weekends, and she said, you know, we're thinking about monday.com what you think? And so we've had conflicting comments that monday.com some say it'sbrilliant, some say it's not so brilliant. And the same with all of the other programmes and systems that are out there. And it really is. I advised her to take three projects, trial that system for a month, have one key person who was going to, you know, look after that and lead it, to actually upload the information you need, start pulling reports and then to manage the team around that. And then after a month, you know, sit down what's good, what's not good, what worked, what didn't work, and then move on to the next one to see. Because different people in different agencies want different types of reports and they want different things. They want to forecast differently. They want to project differently, they want different project information out of those systems. So we do go into businesses and work with them on the how are we working, what's good, what's bad, what do you need, and then we can like help, you know, identify a system that will work. Of course then a lot of people go off and try and create their own system sometimes which is, because then they can tailor it exactly to what they want.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I can imagine that it's sort of, you know, it's dependent on the agency itself and how they want to work exactly. I mean, you mentioned as well...</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I mean, because, you know, for smaller agency, it's just six, an Excel spreadsheet's going to be fine for you, you know, but then if you want to scale and then there's 50 of you, there's no way that's going to work. So it's, it's all the different variables.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, that's interesting that you can offer advice in that area. I mean, you mentioned monday.com, I've heard monday.com sort of bandied around a lot. What are the other kind of top three systems that you hear a lot, that agencies tend to use, particularly ones that are thinking about scaling fast, and they want to set themselves up from the beginning for success?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I'd like so there's so many I wouldn't want to just say, I mean, a lot of my clients, they use JIRA, workflowmax. Asana, obviously, loads of people who work in a bit more of an agile fashion are using Trello. There's just so many out there that it's just it's, I wouldn't recommend one over the other, because they fit differently to each business.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>You're right, actually, I mean, even as a consultant myself, I started off using Asana, and couldn't quite really get the hang of it. But we've moved over to Trello and I'm running it really easy. So, I suppose it's down to the individual as well. And you mentioned before about the difference between the am and the pm role, I'd love to kind of dive in to this with you, because it's something that I've been reflecting on a lot recently, because I have a lot of account managers coming through my training programmes, most of whom actually work in that hybrid role. They're trying to manage projects and grow accounts as the traditional account management role. And I think there's upsides and downsides for both. So I'd love to kind of get your perspective on maybe differences, similarities, what's the overlap? How do they work together? You know, what, what's your experience Nadine?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I mean, I think over the years, working in, you know, ad agencies over the years and digital agencies, I think there's, there's always a big trend of, let's get rid of all project managers, we just have account managers now, then and then it's, let's get rid of all the account managers and let's have project managers now, oh let's try the two together. So and it's a, it's a trend over the years that we tend to see, isn't it? For me, I feel that an account manager and a&nbsp; project manager should really work together. And they should have a really good partnership together, because the account manager doesn't want to be getting involved in all the nitty gritty of the project. But at the same time, they're there to, you know, stroke the client be, you know, upsell with the client. Instead, they need, they do need to have that project understanding, but it's, it doesn't, I've seen it before, it doesn't work. And I think a client knows as well, if an account manager and project manager don't get on. And they fundamentally should be partnering up on on working on an account. Likewise, as I said earlier, you know, a good project manager should be able to with their team, be able to look at a project, maybe a developer would go crumbs, we could do that. That'd be amazing. I'm the project manager, if you've got a good relationship with the client could go back and go through all of this, you know, what do you think? Or, depending on how its structured, go back to the account manager with a bit of a brief and kind of a look, with all of this, you know, can you take it to the client? So, all round, it's about giving a really good client service. But it's definitely, definitely for me about working hand in hand together.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And from what you've said, like the skill set, you're kind of assuming that those roles are different, you know, the project manager role and the account manager role, which I agree is the ideal scenario. It's just that still I find agencies have this account manager that's expected to do both. And, you know, I don't know about you, but I found that you either have a leaning towards one skill set or another.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yes.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>You know, but I haven't fully formed my views on this, but I'm starting to feel quite strongly about it. And I'm quite, it's difficult when I'm training account managers that also have to do the day to day delivery, and all of that, that entails. I'm teaching them a skill to, you know, ways to understand the client's business more, to you know, see where the opportunities is to add more value. But that feels like an extra thing for them to do because quite frankly, they're just in the fire, in the weeds of projects. It's not always the case, but it can be that kind of fact.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It depends on the agency doesn't it and it depends on the size. And also it depends, all of a sudden if a project comes in and the project manager hasn't got capacity, somebody's got to run it. So maybe if it's a small one, then the account manager can run it. But sometimes, where that then becomes a problem is with an account manager is looking after that relationship, and the project manager is looking after that project, they can, you know, if a problem happens within the project, and the account manager is managing it and got to sort of flag that, and then trying to, you know, keep that relationship, brilliant, the two can butt slightly. So this is a tricky one, it is a tricky one. I mean, we do work with some agencies where we work with account managers to just give them a bit of sort of project management background and sort of training and mentoring just so they can fit in with the agency and do what they need to do properly. But, they are two different skill sets. And they are two different hats. And so I don't think all account managers even want to be project managers.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Have you seen any trends? Like when when you said earlier, I was laughing to myself, because you're right, like there are these different trends? I was approached by an agency in the last few months saying that they didn't agree with account managers. And, they they used to have these brilliant accounts, but they kind of over time lost them. And the two things, you know, and so they were looking at reinstating account management, again, as a function. So I just do think that there are trends and ebbs and flows. And do we really need these people on what really, what's the value that they're bringing? So I mean, I know that's a big topic in itself. But it's really interesting to hear your thoughts on this just another question, because a lot of the account managers are starting to separate the role. So what advice would you give to an account manager that might feel a little bit threatened by the fact that well, I've always owned the client relationship. And now I've got a project manager that's come on the scene, because we're splitting the roles, you know, yay, for me, but actually, I feel a bit threatened by the fact that are we both going to contact the client, how does that kind of work?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>No, and again, that needs to be defined. And that should be good job descriptions, and all of that kind of thing. But I think an account manager needs to understand that, number one, a project manager will be moved from account to account to account to account, probably on working on all sorts of different projects with different clients, and unless you're in a massive ad agency, and you know, you're assigned to that account, and that's who you work with. But the roles and responsibilities are very different. You know, the project manager is managing the risks log, managing a shedule, managing resourcing, doing progress reports, and, you know, creating a statement of work. So in all of those things an account manager wouldn't want to do and has no interest in doing, a project manager doesn't take client out for lunch, the account manager does!</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>We get to do the great stuff. I think it's a really big topic. And and I'm going to be speaking to a few people on the podcast about this. And I've just, it is a great topic for me just through observing, you know, the struggles, the fors, the against of this hybrid versus separation. And I don't know whether, you know, the separation is more, it was more traditional in digital agencies anyway. But the more traditional sort of offline agencies that are now fully digital, it's they're making that transition. And that's why they're suddenly separating the two.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>A panel would be good, you could do a panel of account managers and see that and see where, get the opinions from both sides and sort of have a bit of a debate about it.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>That's a really good idea. Thank you. And I'd like to talk to you about the way agencies work. So I know Agile, Waterfall, you know, people there's a lot of debate about which one's better. And then Wagile, which is something that I didn't sort of I didn't even know that was a term, but I got you know, I can see what that means. But can you talk me through maybe the the fors and against for each of those kinds of ways of working.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So Agile, you know, software development, intuitive. Solutions evolve as you go on. It's really good. I mean, it works really well on product based projects. Very much the ideal is that you have a pot of money, and you're working towards products, you have your team and you just keep iterating, iterating to make this thing better, and then you can release and then come back, release and then come back. Waterfall is a bit more I suppose, old fashioned, whereas you have to do each stage at a time and you can't start one stage until you finish the next stage. I'm a bit old fashioned, but you know, all the more younger, trendy people in my team are way over in the Agile sort of camp. Wagile is where you do some of the stages of the project in a step order. So you might do your discovery phase, if say if it's a website you might do discovery phase first, where you do your initial wireframes, and then your design and then a tech spec, and then a functional spec. And then once all of those you've got, the client can sign all of those off and say, yes, that is what I want, you can then move into an Agile fashion for your field development and new testing, you know, pushing design in there doing two week sprints, or whatever it may be. I think a lot of agencies have have taken elements of it. So they'll do daily stand ups, they will have the boards where they move things along, they'll do it in two week sprints. So I think a lot of agencies have taken elements that suit them and suit their projects, which I think is the right way to go. The one thing sometimes is that clients don't understand how to work in an Agile fashion. So it may be that you work in an Agile fashion internally, but not outwardly to the clients. And also, a lot of the time, a client has got a fixed budget, fixed deadline and a fixed idea of what it is that they want. So you can work development and testing within your Agile phase and that really suits teams and you know, I think it's great. But at the end of the day, you've got that fixed thing that needs to be delivered. So hence Wagile.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Thank you for explaining that you've explained it so, so well. I was just thinking about like costing and your right that just as you were talking, I was thinking the client usually wants to know, right, I've got this in my budget that I've got approved from my C suite. And that's what I've got. And I was just wondering, how do you even cost Agile? Or, you know, how do you cost it up and, in your experience, if you found that one is kind of easier to kind of predict what the profitability is going to be on a certain project? Have you got any kind of view on that?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>If you do a discovery phase beforehand, and you get all of those deliverables, so when it goes from sales into production, and you do you know, your wireframes safe, we just take a website, for the ease of it, of wireframes, your initial sort of design might do three designs, cut it down to one to two routes, then into one, then do your tech spec and func spec. You know, for the end of that, you should have a full idea of exactly what it is you're going to deliver. And then the basis of that when you then move into production, you do another statement of work. And then you can cost out, we know based on this design, on these amount of pages and on building those we know development wise, we're going to need this amount of time. And then there's a ratio that you then say, the amount of development days we've got here, we can do a percentage on testing and then we can put this sensitive project management. So it should be a bit clearer. I spoke to a new client the other day, I think he's probably about my age as well. So we were having exactly this conversation. And he said I keep going around and thinking is it because I'm old fashioned. It's just and I said what I just don't think that works for your agency for the projects you're running. So again, and that's why we go into places and do the process consultancy, because it's not one fits all it is based on who the people are within the agency. And if you've got a very development led agency, they will definitely want to work in a different way to a very design led agency. So it really can can change. No way's right.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>No and just as you're talking there, I'm thinking that's a really good investment of time, isn't it? To get someone like yourself that can see the bigger picture that's experienced enough to see how it's worked in different agencies and different because as you say, every agency has a different nature of the types of projects they're running, different preferences, different sort of traditions in how they run. So that sounds like a no brainer to me. That's a really good use of time I would have thought. You mentioned you touched on this earlier Nadine about remote working. And funnily enough, I was going to tell you, I've got very good friend that is a project manager and freelance project manager. And I remember like we were quite close, we talked quite a lot. And she often said to me, because I say 'Oh, someone wants some work done. Are you free?' And inevitably she wasn't because she's so popular. But the distance from her was like she's in North London and it was in South London. And the agency said no, she's too far away. And this was only like, I don't know, obviously before last year, but now things have so changed because everyone's doing you know work remotely. So what have you seen in the world of project management in terms of everyone working remotely? What have been some of the advantages and challenges?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I know everybody's happy to not be spending the money on the train fare. And home at eight o'clock at night because we live in Brighton, but I think I mean, a lot of agencies are actually, you know, they were there anyway. So they'd have that hybrid of not everybody having to be in the office every day. So I think that was it was coming anyway. But what it did was it just slammed everybody into it, didn't it? I've been on another panel and talked about this, it's so difficult. Some people, me included, I'm really sociable, I love being in an office, I love to be with people, I love to go to the pub on a Friday afternoon, you know, all of that social interactions, really, you know, I love and yet I spoken to a lot of other people saying, I just love it, I don't want to go anywhere, you know, I'm really happy with this. So I think there's going to be a hybrid of a bit of both. And I think that's great. I think what's really come out of this and we've got busy, thankfully, because of it, is because it's been realised that you really need to be solid on your communications within your team, you really need to have systems and processes really set up and everybody needs to understand them because you're not together. So people just could be doing randomly different things without even knowing that the other person doesn't know that or should be doing that. So I think that's what's really come out of it is the need for really solid communication and a re-look in some in agencies, things to look at the processes and systems that they have and do what they did have, does that now work? Because it's not in all cases now.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And maybe did you, have you found that some agencies were relying too heavily on having people in the same room talking to each other and realise suddenly, gosh, you know, that the communication isn't as fluid and therefore, oops, the system's just falling down in some way?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Massively. Yes. I mean, I listened to a talk yesterday, and it was exactly about this. And there was a creative guy on there and he said, we just miss going into that room with all those post it notes and sticking things up and bouncing ideas off each other. And he said, they have found that difficult, so they will go back in to do those things. But I think also a lot of people have a lot of people have downsized on their office, because they realise they just don't need that space now. So it's a yeah, it's a great big topic of conversation, I find it really interesting how everything's gone at the moment. But definitely, there's a definite need to be really solid on on how projects run from project management perspective because if you're on your own and you're not communicating properly, things can quickly move out of control.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It has that kind of knock on effect about you know, availability as well, doesn't it? You know, at the beginning, I think some cultures, some agency cultures where there wasn't a high level of trust, maybe, or maybe the senior managers have never worked with people working from home all the time and it's so strange. It's like, well, how am I going to know they're working? Or, you know, and how am I going to know that you're available? And that there's all of that has had to be established hasn't it? And I think there's been a bit of a mindset change from a senior leadership point of view, that's what I've seen, is that my gosh, you know, we've actually made this work. And it's absolutely fine. I remember reading a book called Drive by Dan Pink years ago, have you ever read that book, don't know if you've heard of it? And at the time of reading, it was all about this new way of working, where you give the person the task and say, 'look, I don't care, where you work from, or how you get it done, it's just got to be done by this time', and someone just does it in their own time. And I remember thinking at the time, that's so future thinking, but actually, it's becoming more of a reality, I think. And talking about kind of the future of where it's going, what do you see changing or changes coming up for the world of project management?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>&nbsp;I see us continuing on, to be honest with you. I mean, we've been going for 12 years now. The reason we're called Project Management On Demand is because initially, it was just me. I think, from a traditional standpoint, everybody used to think you need a project manager, you need one full time, but actually, hence the 'on demand', you don't always need a project manager full time. So from a cost effective way that's really good. And I think that could be said the same for account managers working in that way. And it's definitely the same for, say a designer because they may create a design it's then delivered and then the client has to review it for five days. So they've got five days free, if they're not, you know, within an agency, so they'll work on different things. So I think definitely flexibility. I think also, I think what a lot of this done, as well as made people realise that, you know, I know a lot of parents now that I like, I travelled all the time, every day, and I didn't see my kids and I didn't eat dinner with my wife, or, you know, my husband, whatever it may be. So I think there's a lot more flexibility and wanting of not just full on work, work, work work, you know. So I think that's, that's a really positive thing.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I agree with you, just as you were saying that, it struck me that when I was working full time, like I've been in the industry since the early 90s, I know you're a bit younger than me, I don't know if you've been anywhere, but lots of years. But I remember watching because I don't have kids, but I used to see some of my peers and my friends leaving the industry because they had children, and not being able to get back into the industry because it just wasn't acceptable to work part time, from home at all, and no flexibility. And I, I used to think how sad that was, because really experienced very, very good people were leaving the industry in droves, just because they'd hit that, you know, moment in time where they were gonna have a family. So I think that's a real positive.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Obviously, I set the business up because I had a child. So I was working in London in an ad agency, and I couldn't go back. So it's exactly that. And then today, I've got a lot of mums who don't want to work full time because, you know, looking after the house, they've got the school run, some of them have got, I've got some dads as well. So and then I've also got, I've got people who will really be quite entrepreneurial, so they're setting up their own businesses and they need two or three days a week to do that yet, they'll kind of say, 'Well, I need a bit of a plugin'. So then I'll say, 'Okay, well, I've got this on demand on and you could do that three days over the course of the week but still give you the time and flexibility to set up your business', or to only work part time but earn a reasonable rate, because a lot of those people like saying they've got all that experience. Yet they don't want to go into an office every day for full hours, it's just the whole thing is changing. And I love it. And I it's right.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think so too. And I'm quite excited by the prospect because funnily enough, like at the end of last year I was setting my whole business up to run remotely, because I have a vision for me working three months of the year somewhere else. But there was always that doubt in the back of my mind that people were going to accept doing training remotely. You know, I know I've been using Zoom for years, and I've seen that you have that real intimacy, with what I do in the coaching and stuff. But there's always that thing about do you actually need someone in the room training everybody, you know, physically? So I had that doubt but this pandemic is just proof, as you said, we've just accelerated forward 10 years. So it can be done. And it has been done.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think one of the people on this panel yesterday was talking, they were in a co-working, they own the co-working space in Brighton. And I know a lot of the agencies that we work with have let go of their offices, and they're using some of the co-working spaces, because they can either just have a smaller space in there, or they can, you know, meet in there for meetings and meet their clients in there. Well the co-working space is so good these days. So yeah, I'll just say the whole landscape's changed. And it's, it's exciting I think.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It is the flexibility and as you said earlier on about the overhead, you know, if you were investing in an office building, that now in the future doesn't have to be the case, you know, you can actually reduce your overhead. So, yeah, I know it's been tough, and it's still tough, but there are a lot of upsides.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It was a massive key about, you know, getting everybody together, being face to face, you know, working as a team, you know, there's nothing that can replace that.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, people have missed that and we've all done in certain ways. I know that a lot of agencies that are listening to this have, you know, micro businesses, they're very small businesses, as I said before about looking to scale. At what point in the agency's growth, do you think it's essential to have a project manager?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Again, I was thinking about this question. It depends on the makeup of the agency. And it also depends on the type of the projects. Social agencies, you know, the guys that run those projects they sell, they self run and self manage. So you might not necessarily even need a project manager but for me in a sort of a smaller agency, anywhere between six to eight people that might be the pull point to start having a project manager in because you think you know, there could be five projects ongoing in an agency at that point of about 30K each, say, for example, and that's quite a lot for the team to run, if that person is also doing the design or doing the operations in the business, so it just gets to that stretch point where the other guy's are over capacity and they need that help they need that assistance.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I can imagine once you get a good project manager in place, it really makes a difference to everything, doesn't it? And actually, that's where your services step in, really, isn't it? Because if you are on that growth point, and as you said before, most agencies run by project by project basis, the agency of record is kind of diminishing more and more. So, you do have the ability to have someone on a interim basis to see how things go, what a difference it makes to everybody else, so that they can focus on what they do well, and then take it from there.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So yeah, I mean, 10 years ago, I worked for a really cool agency they were an augmented reality agency, and I didn't know anything about augmented reality 10/11 years ago. And so they needed help. So I went into start working on the projects. And then naturally, that was, well, you haven't got a document for this, we can't run this without having that. And then that came to to well, we need to record this and we need a process for this, and we need a system for this. So I worked with them about three days a week over the course of the week and started running the projects, implementing the process. And then it was very obvious that they really liked having a project manager. So then I did a job ad for them, interviewed the first tranche of project managers for them, then said, this one is a good one, you know, you meet them now. And then the project manager started and then I handed over and I rolled myself out. And then if they were ever overcapacity, I'd go in and run the odd project here or there. But yeah, so it's a nice way of doing it because you, if you haven't taken on a project management before, you might not understand exactly what that role is, and how it's gonna benefit you. But if you can try it out, you know, that's the best way and then there's no risk to the business as such.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Fantastic. Honestly, I just think that's an absolute no brainer. Can you think of anything that we haven't covered Nadine that would be useful for anyone to know, like any tips or advice to help agencies run their projects more smoothly?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>But for any of those smaller agencies? You know, I'm happy to have a chat with anybody anyway. But for any of those smaller agencies, who may not be doing documentation as they should be to cover them, then, you know, that is something really to consider. So the statement of work - What is the project?&nbsp; Why I'm doing it? Who are the stakeholders? What's the cost? What are the risks? Progress reporting? I always bang on about that. I think it's really important. You know, what did we do last week? What are we doing this week? What are any blockers, what are any risks? I worked in an agency once and the client was a lawyer in a law firm, we're building a new website for them. And the chap in the law firm, was a bit of a junior, and I could see that he's struggling. And I kept saying to him, you know, I think we need to take this high, I think need help. And then in the end, it looked like everything had fallen down. And of course, it's my fault, isn't it as the project manager. So the account manager came knocking on the door? So I said, No. And they said, what's going on with this project. So I zipped up 20 weeks worth or 16 weeks worth of progress reports and said, this is what's going on. So that's why I'm an advocate for that and just fully, you know, need that time sheeting. Some agencies don't do it these days, I advocate that you should, how do you know whether you're hitting the budget we've put to it? How do you know how big your margin is? You know, where did you go wrong in that costing? And what could you do better next time, because the main key is you want to make a margin to make a profit, to be able to go on some nice holidays. So there's all of that. So we've also got a whole set of documentation. So all of those documents, we've got risk logs, and all of those kind of things, that for small agencies, it's not a system, you know, it's not a great big monday.com but it's a Word template, or it's an Excel spreadsheet. So if anybody wanted any of those, then I'm more than happy to send those over.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Brilliant. I think that's a fantastic offer. And I can imagine that's lots of agencies listening, thinking, oh, yeah, we really need that.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So even if they if they have one, you know, you could just take the statement of work and compare one to the other. And we're going to put that in because that's really important.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So, yes, the wording on some of this is really useful, isn't it? So let's compare what we've got and see if we've ticked all the boxes. Brilliant, Nadine. Well, thank you so much. Where can people get hold of you? How can people contact you and who are the best people to contact you?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So people reach me on my email, which is nadine@projectmanagementod.co.uk. And the website is <a href="https://www.projectmanagementod.co.uk/">Project Management OD.co.uk</a>. I'm on LinkedIn, obviously, as Nadine Schofield. The people who should contact?&nbsp; We work with, well, yesterday, I met with a chief technical officer because he needed a programme manager. So you know, he got in contact with me. Business owners, head of project management head of PMO. Project managers in general, I'm always looking for really good project managers. So I'm really keen if anybody wants to come on board, or if their circumstances change where they don't want to work full time, and then want to work on demand, and I'm always looking for good people as well. So the other end of it as well. Absolutely. And that includes Project Coordinators as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Great. Okay, well, we'll put all of those links in the show notes so that people can get hold of you quite quickly and easily. Honestly, Nadine, this has been absolutely fantastic. Thank you for sharing so many tips and advice for other agencies. And yeah, it's been an absolute pleasure. So thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2021 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/08m93mp8.mp3" length="46743949" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/40f5e890-7cfb-11eb-9286-c9d8461f3c8b/40f5e9e0-7cfb-11eb-a433-2f68466d7087.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2336</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>This episode is for you if you're in a digital agency project management role or are aspiring to work in project management in an agency. It's also for you if you're an agency leader who is looking to ensure the role of the project manager runs smoothly.

Nadine Schofield is the Founder of Project Management on Demand and she'll be sharing with us:

* The core (hard and soft) skills you need to be an effective project manager
* Where agencies go wrong with approaching project management
* The differences between an agile, waterfall and wagile way of working
* Differences between the role of the account manager and project manager and how they can work together efficiently
* The downsides of the hybrid role where the project management and account management function are in a combined role
* Some suggestions for how to decide which project management system to use in your agency
* How working from home has affected the project management role in agencies
* How a temporary project manager can be inserted into the agency for one off projects on an ad-hoc basis
* Some of the core processes you need for the project management role in your agency</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>This episode is for you if you're in a digital agency project management role or are aspiring to work in project management in an agency. It's also for you if you're an agency leader who is looking to ensure the role of the project manager runs smoothly.

Nadine Schofield is the Founder of Project Management on Demand and she'll be sharing with us:

* The core (hard and soft) skills you need to be an effective project manager
* Where agencies go wrong with approaching project management
* The differences between an agile, waterfall and wagile way of working
* Differences between the role of the account manager and project manager and how they can work together efficiently
* The downsides of the hybrid role where the project management and account management function are in a combined role
* Some suggestions for how to decide which project management system to use in your agency
* How working from home has affected the project management role in agencies
* How a temporary project manager can be inserted into the agency for one off projects on an ad-hoc basis
* Some of the core processes you need for the project management role in your agency</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to improve the way you work with a marketing director, with Sam Bridger</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/1npw7728</link>
      <itunes:title>How to improve the way you work with a marketing director, with Sam Bridger</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>20</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">z0r24470</guid>
      <description>Sam Bridger is an interim Marketing Director and consultant. 

She has worked in marketing for over 25 years, 14 of which have been spent as interim marketing director.  Throughout her career she's managed many different agencies and so is in a very good position to provide the 'client side' perspective on how agencies manage her business.

In this episode, she shares lots of tips and insights into what its like being a client and how you can improve the way you work with your client:

* How to engage with your clients when they're not responding to you
* Why you need to understand the role and associated pressures of your client
* One of the best ways to make a cold approach to a prospective client
* Why she thinks it's a great idea to ask your client for referrals where the relationship is strong
* The worst thing agencies can do during client meetings and pitches
* Why being genuine and empathetic is so important to the account management role
* Why you need to take an interest in the client's product and learn as much as you can to be credible for clients
* How to treat the client when having meetings and do your homework before meeting clients
* The importance of taking the time to do your research before client meetings and pitches
* Why she believes the traditional pitch process needs to change to a shorter term project approach before assigning all the business 
* Why helping the client deliver their objective is your key role
* Why agencies don't ask for feedback enough after a pitch and her suggestion for how you can approach this
* Why clients don't always know what needs to go into a pitch brief so asking the right questions is key</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So, Sam, a very big warm welcome to you, to the podcast. So we were introduced by a mutual friend, Tina Fegent. And I'm very grateful to her, because it's always good for me to get recommendations for who I should get on the podcast. And so I'm going to hand over to you in a moment, Sam to give you to give your background. But I just thought it was really interesting because Sam has worked predominantly on the client side, in very senior level marketing positions. And she's essentially now an interim marketing director. And I was just looking through all of your history, Sam, and you'ved worked with some fantastic brands, you know, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. There's Mercedes Benz, Whitbread, Avios, MS Society, Anglian Water. And that's just the tip of the iceberg of all the brands you've worked with. So I think this is going to be really valuable discussion for us, because I think it's really, you've come across so many agencies in your time. So getting your perspective and sharing your experiences are going to be really valuable. So welcome. And would you mind spending a couple of minutes just talking about you your background? And who you help? And maybe some, give some flavour for your experience working with agencies?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, absolutely. Hi, Jenny. So my name is Sam Bridger. I'm an interim marketing director and consultant. I think the thing to say with me is that I started agency side. So I started my career at J Walter Thompson, JWT, and Gray. And so I'm really empathetic to the agency point of view. And I've also done a stint at the AAR. So I've also done that intermediary piece, I think you've said, I've kind of been on all three sides of the pitch table, if you like. So I think that really helps me as a client to work with agencies and understand the demands that face them. You know, I've been a client for 25 years been an interrim for 14 years. So I've kind of worked with more agencies than I can remember and probably run more pitches and I've had hot dinners. And so yeah, lots of different experience. And, currently, now I'm looking for the next challenge as either a strategic consultant with an agency or with a client. So yes, it's, as we come out of furlough, it's all starting to look quite exciting again, now.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It's getting very busy, isn't it at the moment? So I love that that's quite a special background as well, given that you've worked for two, you know, both sides of the fence, as it were. And I mean, from your perspective, because a lot of debate lately, Sam has been around the value of account management, could you give me your perspective on what value you see the role of account manager bringing to maybe both the agency and the client side?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>You know, there's lots of examples of this. And it's, I think, the first thing to say is recognising that the role of account manager it's a difficult balancing act, because you're there to manage the clients expectations, but also to sell the agency product. And you know, sometimes they're very clearly caught between two stools.And it is a challenge, particularly if there is a big disagreement over a creative route, that the account manager has to walk that line. But it much like the marketing director is the voice of the client ,sorry, the voice of the customer I should say within their business, the account manager has to be the voice of client in the agency, they have to be representing the needs and the wants and the issues that the client is facing, and therefore really need to understand them. And maybe we'll talk about that a little bit more later on. So, you know, I think what clients really appreciate is to understand any kind of internal dialogue that may have gone on about a creative brief, for example, if it's being presented, we don't necessarily want the account managers to just come to us and go, you know, here it is. Everybody loves it. If that's not the case, you know, be honest with us, because it's such a subjective process creativity, that there's never a right solution. And understanding the dialogue and discussions that have gone on behind the scenes does sometimes help us go you know, what, actually,&nbsp; that's a good point. Maybe we hadn't thought of it that way, rather than well, they're selling you this, you've gotta buy this , you know, and I think&nbsp; that very old school way of working, I'm hoping it's kind of going away, but I still see it, you know, it's still it does still rear its head occasionally. And it's just it's a shame because absolutely, you know, everything that I do, and the way that I manage my own teams, the way that I manage my agency is honesty is the most important thing that you can have. And you're going to get the best work if you have that kind of discussion. And that understanding and ultimately, as an account manager, if you don't believe in the work, don't try and get someone else to buy it.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I love that. I think that's really insightful. So how do you propose that an account manager does that? Well, so you said that it was really useful to hear the internal dialogue behind the scenes of maybe giving those creative concepts and presentations more context for you, rather than saying that this is the right route and being very sort of salesy, and you know, tell me a bit more more about that.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think just rewind a step, I think, how clients manage agencies is absolutely critical to all of this. And I think I am always staggered, whenever I move into a new organisation, quite how bad so many clients are at it, the amount of times I'll go to an organisation, and the agencies are being kept separate they're at arm's length, they're only being called in when there's a brief to answer. And for me, to get the best out of an agency, they have to be part of a team that, you know, it's a team effort, marketing. it always has been, and you know, it's not down to the client, it's not down to the agency. So they are a big part of our external marketing team. And so they all need to be around that table. So one of the first things I always do is to, is to bring people together. And you know, I'm quite often have them looking at one brief and coming up with the answer together, because I think that's really important, that kind of shared knowledge and that shared expertise. And I have yet to work with an agency that hasn't appreciated that, that hasn't thought, it's really good to see what the other guys are doing. And to get that, those new sparks of insight and those new little nuggets from bits of the business that they maybe don't work on. And it was really important as well, when to keep them in the loop, particularly, the kind of work that I do is often transformational. It's about helping the business&nbsp; change directions, put new strategies in place, etc. And when the business is going through all of that particular change, you need the agencies on site, you know, you need to keep them up to date with everything that's going on. And the last big business I've worked with, which is Anglian Water, there was a dozen agencies that, you know, they hadn't seen for ages that they just worked on this little project, well it was a big project, but it was kind of over to one side. So when we kind of brought around the table and said, this is the strategic ambition of this business, they were like, really, okay, brilliant, you know, that's really exciting, and really motivating. And here's a load of ideas that I've got. And it just sparks all of that creative energy, which I absolutely love. And, you know, in this business, there's no harm in networking with your peers, let's be honest. So it's always a, you know, it's a win win for the agency as well. So I've also taken it to extreme, particularly back in, in my Smart days, where I literally said one brief one budget, and said to them, you pitch for how much you need to spend on this, because I can't sit here arbitrarily and say, Well, I'm going to give this much production and there's much, they are just kind of pulling numbers out the air. So asking the agency to collaborate not only on the strategic direction that we need to take, but also on how we're actually going to spend that money, and then which media channels and which is the best way to do it. And it's always produced really, really great results. So I think, you know, I've never understood clients who think that, you know, agencies are suppliers, not partners, and that we don't need to kind of keep them in the loop on things.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Why do you think that persists?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Laziness, possibly, and probably just a general, a genuine ignorance. And I don't mean that in a, you know, an offensive way, I just mean, that lack of understanding about what they can actually bring, I think there's a, you know, that one of the biggest issues client side as well, that I see is, is marketing directors who are appointed without classic marketing training. So it's either coming from sales roles from other general management roles, from ops from, you know, from all sorts of places who don't know about marketing. And if they're not instilling best practice on their teams, the teams are not going to learn, it's not going to, you know, it's not going to cascade its way through to the junior members of staff. And I think that's, that's a part of the problem. And also, quite simply, as well, because it is an expense, you know, you're not getting those people, if you're a good client, you're not expecting those people to come around the table for free. So you've got to think about how you're remunerating the agencies and and think about how you want to pay them for their thinking time, as well as their actual productive creative time. So it is difficult and on a tight budget, you know, there is a way to manage it. But there are ways that you can manage it without, you know, hugely increasing your agency bill.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>What do you think agencies could do differently to kind of open that door up for themselves? Because you sound like the ideal client? I'm sure there's lots of agencies kind of cheering thinking I want to work with Sam. But what could what's they're, what's the agency's role in this? How could they do anything differently, to try to open that door to the strategic table?&nbsp; &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think it's a good question, Jerry, I think what can help is just taking that initiative sometimes. So if you know that you're working with clients that does operate in that area, kind of divide and conquer kind of way, then try and find ways to bring the agencies together yourself. So perhaps, you know, run an afternoon workshop where you invite all the agencies together to talk about an issue either in the sector or with a particular client or with a particular brand or whatever it might be. Do it in the afternoon, have a couple of hours of workshopping, and then a couple of hours of you know, going out for a drink and getting to know each other. And it just set that ball rolling and just demonstrate a way to add the value because that's a good way of the client seeing that, this is probably a good idea, maybe I should do this more often. The model that I always run, which always seems to work really well is that there are weekly status meetings between the day to day team, so the account managers and the brand managers or whatever their equivalent is client side, there are monthly planning meetings with marketing directors possibly or the level below, heads of, and planners and account directors, and then quartlery all agencies and at the quarterly all agency, it's a really good opportunity to get people together to see what's happened in the last quarter to think about what's coming up in the next quarter. Review the results because I'm very much result oriented marketing director, I'm not just for that looked nice, fire and forget, let's go on to the next thing, so look at themselves, and sometimes also to bring in guest speakers if you like, guest presenters. So quite often I bring in people from other parts of the business that they've heard of, or they know the area that they look after, but they've never met them to explain the projects that they're working on and bring those to life. And it's just again, it's just a great way of getting people around the table talking. And I do it internally as well as client. So always put into in place internal comms planning processes, which involve the individual business managers in the comms planning process and make sure, I've worked with lots of businesses, where they've come to the marketing department and said, you know, do me a leaflet, or you know, give me a Facebook ad, or whatever it might be, you know, we're not the colouring in department. So tell me what your objectives are. And we'll tell you how we'll solve it for you with our agency team. So it's really important to kind of get those guys involved. And I think I remember one of my absolute best moments, Anglian Water, when there was a person from the parks and recreation team, talking to a person from essentially the wastewater sewerage team about a problem, these two people had never even met before, never been in a room before. And yet, because they were talking about shared piece of land, all of a sudden, they were like, Oh, my god, yes, you could do this. And we could do this. And then that would happen. And it was like, bing, you know, it's that kind of lightbulb moment that I really love those making those connections. &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think this is so spot on. And you're absolutely right, because the earlier you bring everybody into the process in the beginning, you get everybody's views, and everyone feels like they're part of it, you get all the buy in, and then you take them on the journey. And when those decisions are made, they very much feel like they've been part of it from the beginning. So I'm absolutely in alignment. And I love that that the fact that you've also said not only for agencies, but also internally, as well as how you, you operate. And I see that there might be some agencies thinking, this sounds quite ideal, but where you have an agency that perhaps has multiple, different offerings. You know, if you're coming together with an agency that also has multiple types of offerings, it's almost becomes a little bit competitive in terms of ooh we know what the client's strategy is, now, we're going to propose something, and we're going to propose something, and it where you don't have specialists that are very siloed, in different areas, any kind of thoughts on that, how you can sort of eliminate the competitiveness.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Sure, and competition is a good thing. So my first thing was like, don't be afraid of that. Because if you're a good agency, you'll win your share, you know, your protect your share. And if you're not, you'll learn from the others that did. So I think, you know, the days of individual specialties, as I say, are long gone. But what I've also found with clients is that if you look at you know, whenever you're running a pitch, and you start looking at the agency, they're out there, all the agencies claim they can do everything they always do, you know, we do everything from leaflets to full blown TV campaigns, you know, and very rarely are agencies, brilliant at all of them. And I'm kind of talking about the mid size to small sized ones, not the big groups that have got a solution for everything. So very rarely are those sorts of agencies good at everything, and they've all got things that they're better at, they've all got their areas of specialism even if they can deliver those other things. And with a client like Anglian Water, for example, which is my most recent one, they were using these sort of small to midsize agencies for specific projects, even though there were projects that other agencies are doing that, you know, agency A could easily have picked up as well. So that also helps us it's kind of bringing these people into the room say, Well, we've now got this project. And you know, we're going to ask you guys to pitch for it. Because even though we've appointed you to be our CRM agency, we know that you're capable of delivering this or we wanted you to be our digital agency, but you're equally capable. So it also helps us to have lots of different skills around the room and lots of different opportunities for new creative solutions. And it stops agencies getting kind of tired, you know, with that, well we always deliver the CRM, so we'll just keep delivering the CRM gives them an opportunity as well to re engage in the business in a different way.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>You're absolutely right. It provides that kind of competitive environment a little bit, doesn't it? Which is beneficial to the client because they're going to get the both of both both worlds, best of both worlds. I think also it does keep agencies on their toes and keeps them more engaged because what's the price you pay for sort of doing those mini internal pitches is the fact that you always get to see the client's strategy and you feel bought in. So it almost compounds and cements that relationship, I think which is really, really beneficial.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>From a client's point of view as well, you don't want to be doing another pitch to bring another agency on board. And this is the other thing I see is going back to my days at Mercedes, one of the challenges that we had there was that we needed to save, I think something like 130 million euros over the period of a year across across the major European markets in one year. And a large proportion of that fell to the marketing teams to try and make savings and there was so much wastage, it was crazy. And in Mercedes&nbsp; UK, which covered Mercedes, Chrysler, Maybach, and Smart, which I headed up, we had no agency roster in place at all. So I thought, well, the first thing we need to do is just see who we're working with. And I identified 130 agencies working with MB UK, which is probably not that surprising, you know, from the from the big pan brand media and creative agencies right through to specialist agencies that could put on commercial truck shows, and others that would do golf days for VIPs. So the first thing to kind of put those guys in order and say well you're Tier one, because you do everything,&nbsp; your Tier three, and then understand within that which ones we needed to have contracts and retainers with and which ones we were just using on a project basis. And once that was in place, it was just so much easier for everybody around the business to go, I need an agency that can do XYZ, so who have we got ok, brilliant, I'll go talk to them. What had been happening in the past was that every time a project came up, they were going out looking for somebody new, because they didn't know that that part of business was working with somebody who was really good. And that helped the agencies not only to generate more business, but obviously to understand the breadth of our business better and get involved in lots of different things and start making the connections on our behalf. And I think that is one thing as well, which is always a great side benefit of this, that you as a client, and particularly in some businesses can be quite siloed, you can be in your division or your team or whatever, focusing on your objectives and your projects. What we need to do, we really need to do X, Y, and Zed and we want to go to I don't know, let's pick those of the Game Fair in Hertfordshire, you know, this year to have a stand there and they go, Oh, you know what, we're already there. But it's my Maybach. So you probably want to kind of coordinate with those guys. And sometimes they help you know what's going on in your own business and stuff that you wouldn't normally kind of come across. So like I say I very rarely see it as a lose situation. But it is it takes a lot of work set it up.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I presume as always as well, you probably get resistance to it. Because I think the benefit that you have Sam is going into so many different types of organised organisations, that feels to me. So you know, so what a great starting point, collaboration, communication and getting everyone to speak to each other. But what kinds of resistance have you had to that? &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>A lot. Yeah, I know, it's the thing that I always joke with that I go into an organisation and they say we've got this strategic challenge. help us solve it. Okay. Okay, great. And then I spend my first couple of months, at least the first 10 weeks, going around asking people what the issues are really getting under the skin of the business. And having that&nbsp; my golden question, which is how can I help you do this better? And they brilliant, here's all the stuff that really annoys me. Here's the stuff that needs fixing, because they can offload on someone who is impartial and isn't there with a you know, a political agenda just there to sort something out, and I go great, and I put it all together. And kind of present that kind of along later and say Okay, so this is the strategy, this is what we need to do it's all the stuff you've told me. So this is what we now need to start changing. And I always get always, always always this 'ah'. When I said I wanted everything to change. I didn't mean me.&nbsp; So I have to work around that. And it always had to go through this like Yeah, yes, that norming, storming, performing thing of setting up new teams, you always, always get it about three months in. Yeah, sorry, that means I've got to change as well? Not sure I signed up for that. So you then persuade them, you can work with them, you then show them what we're trying to collectively achieve and how ultimate say how I'm helping to make their job easier. And make it make it much more enjoyable for the teams and make it much more easy to understand how to measure their results and you know, achieve their objectives and all that good stuff. So you will always go through that change. The only way you can do it is to tackle it head on and say I know it hurts, but this is why we're doing it. There are always some way you're going to have to push them a little bit harder and they're always some that will just jump willingly and that's just the nature of the beast. &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So not only have you got to be a good marketeer and strategist you also need to be a fantastic influencer to get anything done.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Especially as an interim, because you've got such a short space of time to do it. So there is no I'll just, if you take on permanent job, and I remember this compensation quite readily when I handed over to the permanent hire when I was brought in to set up a strategy and a team while they were looking for the permanent director, and we had our hand over meeting, and I said, Okay, the things that you just need to be aware of is A, B, and C. And he said, Well, I'll just kind of spend the first three months getting the lay of the land, getting my feet under the table before I kind of dig into those. And I thought, great, you know, you've got the luxury of doing that for me it's a complete waste of time because I just told you what's going on. But hey, but you know, you as an interim, you don't have the luxury of time to build those relationships. So you have to do them on the hoof. And you have to do the work and build&nbsp; relationships and and try and bring people on that journey with you.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Do you think your skills in your agency life helped you or help you now? &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Oh yeah, absolutely. I'm so glad I started agency side, you know. I know, the skills I have now, you know, prehistoric and, you know, the days of buyer books and spot matching by hand when I was a TV buyer with 13 different channels, and you know, but starting at JW T was just fantastic. And such an honour for me to have started there. And they had the mantra at the time, which if you can buy TV, you can buy anything, which is true, because it was the hardest negotiation, it was like, it was like being a city trader buying TV back in those days, you know, people standing up on the phone shouting in the media department. And I'm sure it's a whole lot more pleasant now. But yeah, and it was bloody hard work. But during that, working through pitches, you know, understanding lots of different clients simultaneously working from Esso to Kellogg's to Unilever to all different pitch clients, Swaddlers, which is a nappy brand, which was my first client that was my own client. Yeah, to go through all of that. Absolutely. And I think I there's something, we were talking earlier on about good account management. And for me that being in touch and&nbsp; being a really good communicator is really, really important. And the account director I worked with when I was at Anglian Water, one of the agencies there was absolutely brilliant, you know, she was always on it, she was a great communicator, she, you know, you just knew that she was on every everything, but she worked ridiculous hours. And I think that, for me, that's one of the things that needs to really change in agency life, that agencies still have rubbish work life balance, you know, you still see them pulling the 2am pitch, you know, and it's like, as a client, I've never done that, unless you've got a kind of job, which involves some kind of emergency response. So I think there is there is work to do on that side &nbsp; from the agency side definitely. I have every sympathy for it, that needs to change.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>The pace is unreal, sometimes. I want to focus in on that, what you've just said about communication skills, because I think you're absolutely spot on. The best account managers I've ever met, are the best communicators, they are, they just have this ability to make sure that everyone in the room feels that they're informed that, you know, everyone feels part of it spoken to heard, felt. And that skill of communication, I think is so key. And what I wanted to ask you was you you've written on your blog, a few pieces, which are really useful for account managers and agencies, because you've, you've kind of shown the both sides of the coin, in the context of pitching, for example, or also going to a, an agency's office as a client who's bringing the business and how you like to be treated. And you gave a few examples, which I thought was really spot on, you know, like, Don't leave me in the reception area with you know, and don't have the person that's on the reception, eating a bowl of spaghetti when I arrive , because it just gives me that impression. And I would love you to, and I don't want to put you on the spot. But because we are in a virtual world, I'm really keen to hear from you. How can account managers&nbsp; improve their communication skills when everything is on the screen?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, it's difficult, isn't it? I think we were talking to somebody the other day, and they were all kind of getting Zoom fatigue as well. And it almost seems to be the default now. And I was talking, I was setting up a meeting the other day with somebody and her PA was&nbsp; well, you know, would you like to Zoom? Would you like to FaceTime? Would you like to Skype? And I was like I'd just like to speak on the phone, actually, you know, that wrong? We've forgotten, there is this thing that you can pick up? So, you know, I think it is just about checking in and just trying to you know, we don't have to have everything as a formal meeting. And you know, don't forget that you can text, you can just give a quick buzz, you can just drop a quick email, how's everything going. Is there anything I need to do? Whatever the project is, you know, just checking in because for a client, the account manager is there to kind of take your problems away to just this is what we're trying to do. This is our challenge this is my budget, you know, help just make it happen. And whether it's, whether it's on a Zoom call, whether it's on a shoot it's about dealing with the problems that come along and not making a meal of them and just being calm, being flexible, being professional, just being able to deal with staff and take the pain away. And again, it does come down to remuneration, ultimately, you know, we are aware of that if you are, you know, up to the limit on your hours for that week, that month, then you're not going to proactively begin phoning the client, particularly if you're very busy on other client projects, and like you were saying before, running a million miles an hour, but keeping in touch, just making sure that you're not falling off the radar, I think clients also want to feel like, you know, it is a two way dialogue and they don't want to feel like you're only getting in touch when we're paying you for something, you know, just How's it going? Oh, you know, any, anything we can help with any projects, doesn't always have to be a sales pitch, it can just be, you know, we're here, do you need us.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>What do you think's the most useful way to do that? You know, one way you suggested, you know, is there anything you can help, we can help you with, you know, should we have an update on what's happening, you know, so that we can see how we can help. But if, if that's for a client is a bit, you know, I've got too much to do, I can't, I just quite frankly, don't have the time, what would be a useful way for the account manager to keep that dialogue and keep that contact?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It's really helpful, one of the the things I find really helpful is what the competition up to, you know, there are, we can see, if we take the very basic example. And we can see what ads they put on TV, for example, what we can't see is how well they've done. So anything that you can do behind the scenes to get data to get results to do any kind of analytics on their social media listening, or&nbsp; you know, did you know, I don't know if you've heard about this, but Brand X has got a real big issue because of.... and you might want to kind of take advantage of it, or Brand X are actually doing really, really well. And you think we should kind of try and up our ante somehow. So just you know, just that kind of broader as well as being another pair of specialist ears out there for us really, and just really helping us because my team is busy running their own projects and managing 1000 things, I'm busy managing them and managing families and managing upwards outputs and keeping the board happy. So to have someone out there to kind of really help us. And I think this is as a as a modern client, if you like one of my biggest moans compared to how things used to be back in the old days. It' so bloody difficult to get decent, consolidated campaign results now, because I get presented with a bunch of statistics from you know, various social media channels, which don't add up to a hill of beans normally in you know, in the real world. And I don't ever have that sense, I very rarely have that sense of was this worth doing? You know, was this worth doing? Or should I just taken that half million quid and put it on bus side, or a TV ad or whatever it might be. So help me really understand that, help&nbsp; my team understand that because ultimately, again, I've got to stand up in front of the board and justify it. And if I can't understand it, and I can't justify it, I'm not going to be able to give it to them, and therefore they're going to take the budget away next year. So really help us to make the case for why we're doing what we're doing.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It's so useful. It's such a good tip, you know, bring the client something that they didn't know, competitor information being one being really clear about your campaign results. And that's the real data that you need. An that, you know, how much do you think agencies actually understand the role of the client? Because we talked about the other way around, but you've just said, I'm the one putting my reputation on the line by standing up in front of the C suite, the board and explaining what we're doing and why. And actually, how much understandingdo you think agencies have of the pressures that you're under?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It depends, I think, it's it's very easy when your agency side to think that&nbsp; the advertising, let's call it that, for simplicity sake, is the only thing that they're dealing with. And you know, and it really isn't it for me, it's the nicest bit of job that I love the most, you know, I love working with agencies, I love the creative process. But I've also got salaries&nbsp; to review jobs, you know, job evaluations, to put forward,people to recruit boards,&nbsp; to deal with other strategic things to write, you know, I've got a million other things going on in the business that I have to deal with and stuff gets chucked at you all the time. So it's just, you know, it does help to have some sort of understanding of the context of a marketing directors day and what they are also having to deal with. And that comes back to the earlier point of help them do their job, help them take some of that stuff, if they can.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Do you think it's useful because this is brilliant tips, by the way, Sam. So thank you. What do you think there's anything else that the agency can do maybe at the beginning of the relationship or the beginning of the project, to create that dialogue to say, look, you know, just it's okay if you spend a couple of minutes just telling us telling us about your role your day, so that we can see the best way of communicating with you on an ongoing basis, or if we have a situation where we need to meet you urgently. You know, what do you prefer? How do we contact you? Do you think there's enough done at the beginning to set the relationship up for success?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Probably not. And you could you could even trace that back to the pitch, actually. So I've got you know some of my pitch horror stories. Which I have many and some quite funny? I think, for me, one of the one of the worst things is when agencies don't let the client talk, and you would, you would say, what does that even a thing? And oh, my god, yes, it's a thing. So I've been to two examples spring to mind where one great agents we walked in, and we loved what they've done with a room, they clearly have got our brand. team seemed great, they were, you know, kind of talking, seem to understand what we were there to do. They spent 50 minutes of an hour presentation talking about another brand, and not even a brand in my sector, to the point where I'm actually sitting next to Paul Phillips from the AAR and I just wrote on the page next to him - make them stop. It was just like, guys, are we ever gonna get to the point here, and they were so desperate to show off this really good, you know, award winning work that they've done for this retail client, but they completely forgotten to talk about us. And suddenly, I'm on another one. I think this is when I was at Mercedes, pitching for CRM agency. And we were sitting around the table and having a good chat. And someone said to me, so Sam, you know about the cars - asked me a question. And I literally opened my mouth to answer. And the MD of the agency jumped up and answered it for me.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yikes. Yeah, you know, the disappointing thing about that is, I always think that the best account people have a really high level of emotional intelligence, social awareness, and they can kind of read a room really well, so that they're able to kind of say, Oh, my God, you know, I would have thought that someone from the agency team would have picked up on the fact that they'd been talking at you for 50 minutes, and that you were showing some level of discomfort, you'd even leaned over to the guy next to you to write something down. I would have liked to have thought that someone would have picked that up.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It's really, as I said, in my blog, and if I look bored, I am. So yeah, absolutely. I think emotional intelligence, it's a really, really good point, Jenny and I also think it is about being genuine and being honest, because I've also worked with account managers who I'd say are quite fake, who kind of almost pretend to be your best friend. And you know, and then when you don't work them anymore, it's like you're dead to me now. I don;t want you to be my best friend, you know, I want a professional friendly relationship if we stay in touch when we stop working together great. And I have done with loads of people. But I don't want that kind of vague, invite me to a party and then leave me standing in the corner because the clients here you know, kind of nonsense, you know, it's like I am not a client. I am Sam, I'm a normal person and I'm quite nice outside of work. So you know, don't need to..well I'm quite nice in work as well. So, um, you know, I think there is that that thing about being genuine. And I'm just always reminded of, you know, going to the extreme lengths of making a client in this case, not the client making the talent happy. And I don't know if you've ever heard that great story about Sarah Gold or Sarah Golding as she now is who's the chief executive of they're called The Partners now aren't they? Yeah, and chair of the IPA and she was our account director when I was at Orange and she was at the Lowe. And yeah, for her famous story was that she was trying to keep Naomi Campbell happy on an Olympus shoot. So she took up smoking just so that she could hang out with her and like you know, for us mere mortals who aren't you know, as great as Sarah , it is about that genuine you know, be a be on side and be a support, be a great help and be friendly and let's have a let's have fun while we're doing this job. But don't be fake about it. Don't be shallow and obviously the more you find out about me and the pressures on my team and my job, the more you can do to help/</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Do you think and I don't know what view you've got on this. Do you think the best account managers just have that natural kind of interest and charm about them? Or do you think that's something that with coaching and mentoring and help you can actually help someone with?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think you need a bit of it to start with ,yeah, I think it can be it can be trained, it can be learned like most skills, but if you're not a genuinely empathetic people person, it will be hard for you to do it genuinely as we just talked about and I think that the thing is, it is a real people job because you do have you know as we were saying before, you do have lots of conflicting people and demands to deal with you know, you are kind of the centre of this storm in a lot of ways, so if you're not a people person and you don't know, you're not great at stakeholder management and engagement, then you are going to struggle</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>You're in the wrong job basically.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It's about bringing your whole self to work as well, not your fake self. So if you've if you've got an opinion on something, say so you know, by carrier, you know, you're not there to let the creatives and the planners do all the great thinking you have an opinion too. So bring it to the table, you know, I have seen account managers who've just meekly kind of sat there. And I know damn, well, they've got an opinion afterwards, they've told me and I so well say so, bring it to the table, you know, just just, it's difficult, particularly dealing with creatives. Because, you know, quite often you're dealing with creative egos. And that's sometimes hard to get a word in edgewise. But, you know, you have to, you have to be able to trust your convictions, I think.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I agree. And I think that's a great point. Because a lot of I think a lot of account managers, they don't want to be seen as an order taker, passively taking notes, and just being the person that goes from one side to the next, they want to be seen as a trusted adviser, they want to be bringing the insights, they want to be bringing the competitor information to you, and have a place at the table. It's a really, it's a tool, it's a tactic, but we use the concept of a one page pre meeting plan. Because if you've got a big client meeting going up, coming up, and you're in that meeting with bigger personalities, maybe a creative, maybe a strategist, etc. You have the ability to orchestrate that meeting by getting everyone together before and say, right, this is how it's gonna go. I'm gonna lead I'll bring you in at that point, then I will ask for questions. Because I I personally think that the client then has the perception of that person as valuable. Because if you're sitting in a meeting passively taking notes, you don't say anything, A the clients probably going to think well, what am I paying you for? But also, what value are you bringing, like you say.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Exactly, and a lot of that stems from understanding the client's product properly as well. Again, in my blog, I talk about examples again, mainly they're pitches, but it just shows how critical it's where I've had as a car client been presented with account managers that can't drive, as a client for NHS blood and transplant someone who's never given blood. And working with at Whitbread these sort of 20 something Shoreditch types who'd never even heard of Beefeater Inns let alone set foot in one because it's not a London brand is not trendy and stuff you know, mid market family brands been around for 50 years, you know. So I think it's, it's make sure you learn as much as you can about the product you live and breathe it, you know, drive it, go on it, do whatever, whatever, whatever, eat it, whatever it is, you know, experience it as much as you possibly can, and understand it, because I the one thing that that I have said in a boardroom scenario is that if I've got a seat at this table, I've got a voice at this table. Otherwise, there's no point me being here. And, you know, and I think they need to remember that they're not the note taker, you know, they're not the person to carry the bags and you know, carry the the art folder, they are the person who is there to kind of help cohesively bring, bring everything together. It's an it's an important skill.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Absolutely. And that's great advice. Do you have any other because you said you have quite a few horror stories, I'm really keen to hear them. Because you know, someone listening might think, Oh, my God, I think we're going into one of Sam's potential horror stories. And you've just actually given a lot of food for thought already. Do you have any other ones that..</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I could sum it up really with the same philosophy that Whitbread had so Whitbread obviously have Premier Inn, Costa Coffee and four more restaurant brands. And their philosophy was 'our house' when I was working there, and it was really simple, it didn't matter whether you were the chief exec, or a waitress&nbsp; in a Beefeater or a chambermaid in a Premier Inn, you treated the place as if it was your house. So if someone was coming to your house, you wouldn't give them a dirty glass to drink out of, or you wouldn't you give them dirty sheets to sleep in, you know, make sure that the room was tidy that when they finished drinking, you offered them another drink, you know, so it's just it's that bringing it down to a really simple level. And so when I go to an agency, whether it's a pitch or just a meeting, it's just like, you know, it's that welcome. If that making sure the reception is tidy, you know that that someone having a bowl of spaghetti really happened in the middle of reception and you know, copies of Campaign that were four weeks out of date and stuff like that, or being left sitting there one I remember where I was delayed because of a train and I'd phoned to say I'm really sorry, train delayed, I can't do anything about it. I'm going to be about 10 minutes late, arrived at the agency was left sitting in reception for another 10 minutes. And I'm sitting there thinking, this is the time I'm meant to be in a meeting with you. What are you doing? You know? Why are you leaving me here, or I've turned up for a meeting before my colleague, and I've just been left sitting in an empty meeting room until the colleague arrives. And it's like, I don't want to be treated like royalty, but I also would like a bit of professional courtesy and, you know, maybe you could chat to me and find out a bit about me before the official meeting starts. Back in, this is going back a while but I when I left advertising my first client job was at the RSPB, which is the bird charity. And the big joke is that I know nothing about birds, I can barely recognise a chicken, but I was there to do a commercial job for them. And we had started a search for an agency to celebrate our millionth member at the time. And I ended up running that as an ex agency person. And we went to meet some media agencies and I had obviously come from seven years as a media planner buyer. I was working with two deputy marketing directors or two assistant marketing directors, joint marketing directors, I should say, one who was ex IDB and one who was ex I think Unilever again an FMCG brand, I can't remember, in the mists of time, and the media, one of the major agencies at the pitch treated as if we were like three old ladies who worked in the gift shop. I was at the time, I was like, 28, so I wasn't even an old lady, you know, just the&nbsp; no bother to check out what our backgrounds were, what we knew. And he started to talk, one of the guys started talking the most random media bullshit at me, which I let him kind of tie himself up in a knot for about 10 minutes and then said, Well, actually, I think it's du du du du du du and the shock on his face. And I said, I'm sorry, I should have told you I was a media planner buyer for eight years. And it was like, you know, serves you bloody right mate, do your homework. So I think that's, you know, that the value of what you can understand and to have conversations where you're, you know, there is such thing as a stupid question nowadays, because the internet can tell you so much that don't ask me who the parent company is of my brand. Or don't ask me what other cars we make, or you know, whatever it might be, do your basic homework. Don't turn around to me say, this is so interesting. I didn't know anything about this until yesterday, you know, I haven't come here to talk to a bunch of interns. I've come to talk to you about your expertise and how you can help me improve what I am trying to do with my brand. So yeah, and there's all that there's all the little things that catering is always one which gets me which makes me laugh, you know, being presented wio platesth ginormous, crumbly croissants and no plates.&nbsp; On a futon. And yeah, milky tea, I'm lactose intolerant, by the way, in a chipped mug, chipped kind of freebie mug. So yeah, they're just, you know, all of those sorts of things. It's just treated me as if I'm a guest in your home. So treat, treat me in the way that you would you would treat guests in your home. And it's that conversation, you know, we're here to talk about your business and how you can help us. &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Do you think it's got worse or better? That aspect of it?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Oh, good question. I don't think it's changed enough. Actually, I don't think it's necessarily got worse, but I don't think it's got better. I think it's very easy and easy for agencies to go into pitch mode. And they, you know, deploy the same team, you always deploy approach it in the same way. And I've read lots of lots of books and lots of essays on how to break that cycle, and how to think about pitching differently, etc. and that it's worth digging those sorts of things out. But yeah, it. Unfortunately, the whole pitch process is still so mired in the same. Here's a brief, here's the long list. Here's the short list now that and what it doesn't let you do sufficiently is road test a relationship. And ultimately, that's what it's all about. And I think next time I'm looking for an agency, I'm really going to try hard to do it differently. I'm going to try and do some project based road testing, rather than the big all singing, all dancing, kind of, okay, you've got all the business based on two meetings, you know, it's like marrying somebody when you've been on two dates, isn't it?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Essentially, it is. Where do you see that? You know, what do you what would you be looking for during those kind of test projects? What kinds of behaviours and skills?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think, you know, as we've talked about it is that communication, it's about staying one step ahead. It's about being calm and professional, but taking as much crap away from my day as you can, you know, when it comes to that particular piece of work, and, and just really helping bring the whole piece together, you know,&nbsp; none of us are working in isolation, working with other agencies, you know, and and helping me deliver my objective. That's ultimately what I'm employing you to do. So however, you can help do that is always going to be appreciated, I think. I think the other thing is, in whatever type of agency contract or relationship we have, that would be like regular reviews, those relationship audits are so important. And I think for them to work in the best possible way they need to be 360. So the agency can review the client as well as the client review the agency. And it's always done anonymously, you know, so, of course, you can normally work out who said what but that's beside the point. But I think it is really important because a good client should want their agency to improve and they should want their teams to improve. And if so, you can do that like twice a year or after a big campaign or whatever it might be and having a kind of structured, for each kind of production and account management , creative, you know, you have a few structured questions. And just it really just helps to kind of bring any issues out really understand where things went right where things went wrong, what can we do more, or what should we do less of, how should we change, and also has been a big issue or with have a wash up meeting, you know, I had one recently when I was at Anglian Water where there was an issue. And it is not about apportioning blame, it shouldn't ever be that no one should ever kind of worry about going, the biggest problem was that Dave screwed up. And it was like, Alright, Dave, let's kind of understand how that happened. You know, what, what was it that led to that decision? And you know, unpick it that it doesn't happen again, it's not about what, fire Dave, I don't want to see his ugly face ever again. You know, it isn't about that, if you're a good client, you should be much more empathetic to particularly when you are this, you are loading an awful lot of pressures on the agency when this particular campaign I'm talking about was geo dependent, location dependent, weather dependent it you know, there were so many variables in it, and across so many channels, inevitably, something was gonna fall over. So we were lucky, it was only one thing. But when it did, it had a bit of an impact. So you know, okay, one thing fell over what happened? How do we make sure it doesn't happen again, you know, I've never been the kind of manager that screams and shouts at my teams, I'm not going to do that to my agency either, I just don't see the point.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Do you think agencies ask for feedback enough?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>No, they don't. They're bit scared. They're a bit like, Oh, we might find out something we don't like I'm particularly in the pitch scenario. I think the other thing is even putting, like the likes of the AAR and the intermediaries to one side, since I've been running pitches, for however many 1000s of years, only one agency has ever phoned me directly to ask me why they didn't get a business. One. You know, which is mad really , I was quite happy to tell them.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Why do you think yeah, they you said that they're scared. Any other reason that you think that might be happening?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I don't know. You know, when I worked with agencies as a pitch consultant, and you know, one of the things that is quite often said to me is, we're quite often the oh you came in really close second, and why is that? And my first question is, then what what what, what have you asked, the clients that have told you that, you know, what, have you started kind of compiling that client A said,&nbsp; it was because of this, client B, said that, you know, if there are either a theme emerging here, or that something that we can start to kind of put together. And quite often they don't, I don't know whether they rely too much on the intermediaries or they think it's an imposition to phone the client, you know, but it's again, it's like, don't be scared about doing that, you know, this, we're just normal people, like you guys, just give us a buzz. And if we can't answer you, or don't want to answer you, we will tell you, but if we're happy to, then you've got nothing to lose. So it is just about trying to get as much kind of experience together. What you know, it's like, it's like the relationship audit, you know, after the pitch, if you didn't get it wash up. Why didn't you get it, be honest? Don't be afraid to say well, actually, it was because the MD just didn't stop talking. And maybe he shouldn't be in the pitch. Or maybe he should come in at the end, you know, manage the individuals and egos is the hardest thing. But if that's what's stopping you winning business, it's something you have to face up to.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It's so true. I'm actually thinking about my early days in the agency world where we didn't get a pitch, and I know that the the MD didn't stop talking fully enough. And you can just sense that you think this isn't this seems really flat, you know, and of course, he didn't get it. But I think that's really good advice about giving, you know, asking for feedback productively.&nbsp; What do you think about clients that before the pitch, they don't give the agency enough access to them? You know, a lot of agencies complain to me that they're going into pitch for a piece of business, but the clients you know, they get the brief, a maybe they're allowed a window of half an hour&nbsp; with all the other agencies to asks a few questions. But what do you think about&nbsp; client's being more open to agencies contacting them beforehand to get some more context?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>They absolutely have to. You know, bonkers. I can't imagine trying to, you know, if we go back to the getting married scenario, you're not going to marry somebody when you've only spoken for half an hour. So if you really want to have a proper collaborative relationship, you need to get to know each other. And what I always make sure that I do is build in at least two hour long follow ups with the shortlisted team. So they'll probably be one at brief stage it might be just a half hour call to do a QA and so you you schedule that and it's&nbsp; individual it's never with all the agencies at once because that's not fair. And then for the ones that are shortlisted and then answering a brief or putting together, you know, some example creative, whatever we've asked them to do. Then there'll be another either face to face meeting or a call or, you know, currently a Zoom probably And how are you getting on? You know, is there anything you need to ask us now? Is there anything that's not working for you. And the other thing that I found in that process, almost inevitably, the agencies that you think at the beginning, are doing really badly, like in that interim stage, when you, when you have that kind of get together and think they haven't got it, they haven't cracked it. And another agency is doing really, really well, almost always, they will flip around by the time they come to present. And the agency that were doing badly wins the business and the agency that was doing brilliantly falls at the final hurdle. Don't know why it happens, but it almost always happens. So it's really important to kind of see and it helps you as well get to know them and see their thinking and how they're working through things and steer them back on course, because it's in nobody's interest if you get to pitch stage, and they've gone completely barking up the wrong tree. So you do need to make sure&nbsp; and I think it goes back to my &nbsp; thought of trying to run it differently next time. Because in the real world scenario, you wouldn't brief an agency and then go bye see you in six months, you know, three months or whatever, you would work with them on the campaign until you had something you're happy with. So why should the pitch scenario be running these very old fashioned kind of , can't possibly talk to each other during this process? Now, I realise it's time consuming. And that is the biggest thing about it. But it's a big investment. So you should be prepared to make the time and try and find and try and prioritise that time in your diary. Because if not, you're not going to get the best result. If you don't potentially.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I absolutely agree. I think it also shows commitment from the client to the agency, because many agencies just think, well, this is a huge beauty parade. There's probably at least five others, if not 10, 20. You know, there have been pitches where, you know, it's like throwing, you know, spaghetti at the wall and hoping something sticks, they seem to throw it out there to agencies, loads of different agencies. And I suppose from an agency's perspective, yes, many are good at qualifying those opportunities first. But quite frankly, if perhaps the financials aren't in the place where they need to be, they might take that opportunity, but then they go on to waste their time. And time is money, as you know, they know, unfortunately, that's the business model.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, exactly. You don't want to waste time. So I think the other thing that's really important if the&nbsp; clients don't have a beauty parade, you know, I've always been very, very certain that whoever is on that shortlist, we should be able to work with any of them. So there should be no like, Well, they've done a great job. But we, you know, we didn't like the MD becuase he didn't shut up, you know that there shouldn't be any of that, to have got to that final three, whatever, any of them should be able to win it. So I think it's not fair to have a beauty parade. Absolutely not.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>No. And sometimes they think that they're making up the numbers, you know, and you find that out afterwards. But this, Sam, I'm just conscious of your time, this has been so rich with insight, and I'm sure loads of people coming away with some thoughts and ideas for how to do different things. And I would like to just ask you a couple more questions, if that's okay. Do you get approached from a new business perspective by agencies?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, I, certainly less than I used to. When I started my career&nbsp; as an interim, I did more consultancy and agency pitch work. And it's kind of morphed into more interim marketing director work. But yes, I still do it. And I'm yeah, I get the occasional approach. But I think what would be really nice if it wasn't always the, we've got this pitch next week, and we haven't done anything about it. You know, so there's 11th hour things. So yeah, but certainly what, what I tend to do is, is help, I kind of call myself a surrogate client, because I help them think about the brief from the client's point of view. And I think one of the, the biggest tips I would give you is that the client doesn't always know what they want when they write that brief. So if you're slavishly answering it word for word, you're not necessarily bringing your best game to the table. And I think particularly as you know, as agencies, we were saying earlier on agencies are multi disciplinary now, and everyone can do everything, supposedly. So it's quite hard sometimes for the client to know what type of agency they need, or even what type of campaign activity they need to run, you know, it's just, I've just got this thing you know, that the old days of I need a media agency or I need an ad agency, are so long gone, that you you much like as I was saying, earlier on, about as an internal client, you need to come to the team going, Well, here's my problem, how can I solve it? That's why I personally really like the intermediaries because they can help you kind of sort the wheat from the chaff at that early stage. But all that said, It is about looking at the brief and thinking you know what I'm what I'm actually seeing here is the client wants this. They've expressed it in this way, but actually their challenge if I know enough about their business, and I've dug into it is this. So I do I have worked with agencies and there was one PR agency that was helping with it with a car pitch that would just went hell for leather on some fantastic stunt idea. It was like, that's a tactic, not strategy. They're looking for a strategy. No, no, no, this is what they want, this is what they want. And guess what happened, they didn't win the business because they hadn't expressed enough, you know, strategic knowledge of what the challenge was, they just focused everything on a creative idea. So I can definitely help them on fixing that way.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>That's brilliant. And if they're an agency that's trying to reach out to a prospective client, any tips on how to do that in a way that is going to make them stand out?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Oh, that's a really hard question. I think, you know, it goes back to what we're saying, just help solve their problems for them don't kind of come to them, have you got any work? And I'm using kind of really stupid terms. Of course, no one will do this. But you know, I understand that this is a challenge in your sector. This is what we think we might be able to to help or this is what we've done for another brand in your sector and look at the results or have you thought you know, so it's come with a with a challenge and a solution, you know, and just try and it's about dialogue about making yourself useful. I think that's, that's the thing. It's hard to do because everyone's busy and, you know, marketing director, you know, as a marketing director, you're so aware of being cold, called, as well, you know, the Hi, just thought I'd get in touch to you know, so you do have a screening filter on networking, you know, all of those sorts of things.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And just final question, if you're, if you've got an agency that's working really well with you, and you love them, it's been going on for a while, and they've been performing really well and bringing you new ideas, new insights, etc. Have you ever been asked by an agency of that of that kind? for referrals? Like, can you refer me to other parts of the business? Or can you refer me to other..</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It's really interesting to me, I don't think I ever have actually, I have done it. You know, I have said to other parts of the business all you know, you should work with this agency, and the example about the Mercedes roster got agencies working with other bits of business. I don't think anyone has ever explicitly said, Could you recommend me to someone, you know, if either inside or outside the business? So that's, that's a really good tip. I think do that.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Okay, so good. Because if someone had asked you would you have helped?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, I thought they were a good agency. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's all about helping each other out. So, yeah, I would have no qualms in recommending and I have, subsequently as a client, obviously, I've gone on to, from one business to another and said I've worked with that agency they're fab , I wonder if they could help us. So you know, I,&nbsp; you keep hold of the good ones.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Customer lifetime value, love it. Listen, where can people get hold of you? And who would you ideally like to approach you? Who do you work with best? And where can they find you?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>You can find me on LinkedIn, Sam Bridger, or sambridger.com is my website. So you can get hold of me through that. And I think the clients that I really like to work with, and this has really been sort of amplified over the last year or so with everything that's been going on are those that have a good sense of social responsibility. I've worked with a lot of charities, I'm not just a charity client. Anglian Water's a really good example of a business that totally oriented itself around sustainability and environmental protection. And looking after vulnerable customers, though, you know&nbsp; that meant a lot to me. So there wasn't sort of, as I like working with but also loved the hospitality sector, you know, worked in the hospitality sector quite successfully. I've worked with lots of different organisations. For me, it's just it's always about the challenges is what I always say it doesn't necessarily matter what the sector is it's like, you've got to meaty challenge, if the business is a bit stuck, or you know, your agency is a bit stuck. And you need to think about how you can pivot and do something different than yeah, I'm your woman.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Amazing. Honestly, Sam, you've provided so much value today. Thank you so much. I'm very grateful for Tina for introducing us. So thank you so much for coming,</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Sam &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Pleasure. Thank you, Jenny.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2021 15:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/nwzm62m8.mp3" length="69006544" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/5428b480-75c3-11eb-a1ab-2157884582f7/5428b620-75c3-11eb-ac9c-4b7ad3832f51.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3450</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Sam Bridger is an interim Marketing Director and consultant. 

She has worked in marketing for over 25 years, 14 of which have been spent as interim marketing director.  Throughout her career she's managed many different agencies and so is in a very good position to provide the 'client side' perspective on how agencies manage her business.

In this episode, she shares lots of tips and insights into what its like being a client and how you can improve the way you work with your client:

* How to engage with your clients when they're not responding to you
* Why you need to understand the role and associated pressures of your client
* One of the best ways to make a cold approach to a prospective client
* Why she thinks it's a great idea to ask your client for referrals where the relationship is strong
* The worst thing agencies can do during client meetings and pitches
* Why being genuine and empathetic is so important to the account management role
* Why you need to take an interest in the client's product and learn as much as you can to be credible for clients
* How to treat the client when having meetings and do your homework before meeting clients
* The importance of taking the time to do your research before client meetings and pitches
* Why she believes the traditional pitch process needs to change to a shorter term project approach before assigning all the business 
* Why helping the client deliver their objective is your key role
* Why agencies don't ask for feedback enough after a pitch and her suggestion for how you can approach this
* Why clients don't always know what needs to go into a pitch brief so asking the right questions is key</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Sam Bridger is an interim Marketing Director and consultant. 

She has worked in marketing for over 25 years, 14 of which have been spent as interim marketing director.  Throughout her career she's managed many different agencies and so is in a very good position to provide the 'client side' perspective on how agencies manage her business.

In this episode, she shares lots of tips and insights into what its like being a client and how you can improve the way you work with your client:

* How to engage with your clients when they're not responding to you
* Why you need to understand the role and associated pressures of your client
* One of the best ways to make a cold approach to a prospective client
* Why she thinks it's a great idea to ask your client for referrals where the relationship is strong
* The worst thing agencies can do during client meetings and pitches
* Why being genuine and empathetic is so important to the account management role
* Why you need to take an interest in the client's product and learn as much as you can to be credible for clients
* How to treat the client when having meetings and do your homework before meeting clients
* The importance of taking the time to do your research before client meetings and pitches
* Why she believes the traditional pitch process needs to change to a shorter term project approach before assigning all the business 
* Why helping the client deliver their objective is your key role
* Why agencies don't ask for feedback enough after a pitch and her suggestion for how you can approach this
* Why clients don't always know what needs to go into a pitch brief so asking the right questions is key</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to lead the team as agency client services director, with Paul Kirkley</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/68r6rrm8</link>
      <itunes:title>How to lead the team as agency client services director, with Paul Kirkley</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>19</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">805v66y1</guid>
      <description>Paul Kirkley has spent his entire career in agency account management. He knew from a young age he wanted to work in advertising and has certainly fulfilled his ambition.

He now works for one of the UK's top creative agencies, MadeBrave as Client Services Director and his experience includes 20 years with JWT (now Wunderman Thompson) working as Global Business Director for brands such as Nestle, Jaguar and Kenco (JDE) where he also lead a client services team of 120.

In this chat, he shares:

* Why always being curious and genuinely interested in the client's business is key to success
* How seeing the world through the eyes of each agency department and understanding their motivations sets you up for success in your account management role
* Why the best briefings come out of the best questioning and listening
* Tips for how to become a client's trusted advisor
* How to lead, inspire and set the account management team up for success
* The skills you need to be an effective client services director
* How to make sure you stay relevant and valuable to your client
* The biggest challenges faced by client services directors and how to prepare for them
* How remote working has changed the way account managers now interact with clients 
* What skills you need to work with global brands
* How to be introduced to the client's C-Suite
* How agencies will evolve in the future

and lots more...</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:<br>&nbsp;</strong></div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So I'm really excited today to be speaking to Paul Kirkley. Paul is currently Client Services Director for the fabulous agency MadeBrave. And he has such a huge amount of experience in agency life, that I think this interview is going to be fantastically rich and full of insight and tips. So, Paul, I'm going to pass over to you really, if you could spend a couple of minutes just talking about your background, your experience in agency life, that'd be fantastic.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Thanks, Jenny. Hi, there. Well, I've had about 25 years plus in the in advertising industry. And I was, I was really, really lucky because I knew from an early young age, what I wanted to do, so I never really wanted to do anything other than working in advertising in some form or other. And I was lucky enough to start at Ogilvy as a grad. And I spent about 8-9 years at Ogilvy working on numerous clients, but being really, really well trained, because the the Ogilvy at the time was a really big sort of training agency. And you had experience within all the different environments of the different departments. So you're lucky enough to get all that sort of training, I was lucky enough to get all that training from an early start. And after I'd worked at Ogilvy for a while before I joined a startup it had actually already started up, but it was quite small. It was about 30 people. And that was really, really interesting, because it was a move from the big agency into a small agency, and you sort of had to move from working between departments to being really all one department. And so you again, you learned a ton more stuff of how to really get stuff done in a in an agency. And I then spent the bulk of my career at JWT, after five years, I left that agency, the startup and joined JWT and that was fantastic. I've always been in account management, I've always loved the sort of creativity involved in the whole industry. And once I was at JWT, I was head of account management, I was head of new business for a number of years. And I worked across all the different clients that JWT had. So local domestic clients, regional clients, global clients, and for the last sort of five or six years there I was a global business director. It was fantastic experience with you know, hugely talented people that that, frankly, selfishly I never stopped learning from.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And you're very modest actually your account management team, correct me if I'm wrong, was 120 people. Is that right? So that is some feat to look after so many,</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think it was the biggest account management team in London, possibly in the country. So yeah, it was a lot of people. But again, you know, they were they were brilliant, hugely talented, all really, really interested in brands and really interested in sort of how to get the best work for their clients. So it was a joy.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So if you're one of these lucky people that knew what they wanted to do at an early stage in their career, and then presumably just pursued your path, Ogilvy fantastic training ground? What do you think that training gave to you that perhaps other account managers in different agencies don't get?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, I think it gives you a massive understanding of what motivates different people in different parts of an agency. So if you apply yourself in each of the different departments properly and sort of thoroughly throw yourself into it, and think about it through their, the different people in those departments eyes, you get a very different perspective of what actually motivates a strategist, or what motivates a creative person, or even what motivates an account person. And I think being understanding of that and respectful of that is something that you can only you can only learn if you've been exposed to it in a in that sort of way. And it really it changed how I sort of operate in an agency because you suddenly realise that all the different departments are so valuable that you , the more you can understand about what makes their lives easier and better. And frankly, what they're ultimately sort of inspired by means you can set everything up as the account person to make their lives more favourable, easier, better, but for their work. &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>What did you learn if you can remember this while back about how to work with clients? I mean, that was a really useful exercise and i think i'm sure other agency, maybe leaders are thinking, yeah, maybe we need to invest some time in the team so that they can sit in the places of different people within the agency. What did you learn at that stage about the client and working well with the client? &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I think one of the things you learn is getting it's the benefit of being in a big agency is you have a myriad of quite often quite big clients. So you're operating with, again, hugely talented marketeers who really understand the broader picture of, of what your what you can obviously offer and what they are actually after. And I think the benefits of it is, is that you just are exposed to so many different types of people, that you get just tonnes more experience. And you can perhaps in in unfortunately, in a smaller agency, it's a different kind of experience. But you're you're witnessing and being exposed to so many different problems, that the different clients have that after a certain amount of time, you feel you just have an innate confidence that builds because you're, you faced so many different problems, at least once before. And they're quite often the skills that you learn from one client or one particular brand is transferable to a completely different category, or completely different client. And I think that's, that's probably the biggest thing that you, you learn from that sort of mix of different types of clients.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And I suppose it gives you exposure to the business perspective. Because if a client has one particular challenge, and you deal with so many challenges from different clients, then you start to get a picture of the types of business problems that you are fixing for the for the clients, right?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Absolutely, yeah, there's, there's so many different problems that arise, but very quickly, you start connecting the dots. And if you if you're lucky enough to work across a variety of different clients, and even not at the same time, you just have to be able to remember those situations you faced, you faced and hopefully help them through. And then you kind of bank it. And then you can use that bank of information, bank of experience, we like to apply to anyone else who comes in the future. So quite often, you know, you after a number of years of that kind of experience, you start to almost work out that individual business problems are not that individual. There are actually things that you can learn from other clients, other brands, other campaigns, other situations that you know, people have been in.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I suppose it also arms you with the types of questions that you want to be starting to ask the clients at the briefing stage, the more that you are exposed to their different business challenges and communication challenges and problems, right.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, I think one of the things you have to be wary of if you have been through a lot of those experiences is not presuppose or prejudge those situations. So it's a very good point, I think, often the best briefings come out of the best questioning. So the ability to be someone that's open to listening, you know, everyone always talks about agencies that they never really listen. And I was, again, taught read that early age that you know, you have to really be a good listener when you're especially when you're an account person, because it's that's listening between the lines of what someone is saying and those kinds of meetings, is where you really unearth the truth, the truths if you like, and so I think it's that ability to not prejudge, or presuppose you know, the answer or jump too quickly to the answer. Is it again, a very sort of, it's an important learning to have</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I 100%. agree with you, Paul. Funnily enough, it's one of the key aspects of my training programme is how to ask questions. And we actually have a framework that can be adapted for different scenarios. And I just had an instance with a client of mine who, who had started to ask questions differently to her client. And a client actually said to her, wow I started, I was going to brief you on one project, but now we are talking about three different projects, because she'd been so good at asking questions. So I think it's kind of underrated, isn't it? Somehow, questions and listening</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It's completely underrated. And, you know, I think I think what what most people need, not just the not just clients, but I think it's what most people, whenever you meet people for the first time, or even when you're not being curious and inquisitive and asking and being interested, is often the thing that most endears people to other people. So you know, if you can do that in your work life as well, you, you often open up and numerous other doors to other situations, because they're going to be interested in if you're interested. And if you're genuinely interested, you know, even even better.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Absolutely agree. Fantastic. Okay, so that we've talked a little bit about, you know, the early years and I want this podcasts to be fuel for thought or food for thought, for people listening, who perhaps aspire to be a client services director. So you really have reached, you know, level, you know, managing 120 people in that CSD role, then going beyond to be, you know, global business director, etc. But tell me, what do you think makes a superb Client Services Director? &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well I think the role of account management firstly is is to, is to create the right environment for the best world class works be developed on behalf of your clients and your agency. So creating the right environment is the biggest sort of role for anyone in account management. And ultimately, what that means is, it's about becoming, in my opinion, a trusted advisor. So be someone that your clients view as someone they can trust, and someone whose advice they can trust, it's, it's the opposite of being a sort of transactional order taker. So it's very easy in account management to, you know, just take orders and go back and deliver what's been asked for by the client. But that means you're only ever reliant on the last project. Whereas if you can build this kind of trusted adviser status with your clients, and not, it's not a sort of something you hide behind, it's something you have to actually do, you have to be someone that that is giving advice that they can trust. So in a way, what that means is internally, you need to be able to lead and direct and encourage teams to do everything possible to create that environment. And externally with clients, it means it involves inspiring those clients to entrust you to develop that world class work. So&nbsp; it's a tricky area to get into. But if you're genuinely interested in your clients problems, and your clients business, and you genuinely can offer them some advice that's trustworthy, then you're more than 50% of the way there because that that is, in my humble opinion, what what makes the great account people and the great Client Services directors.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Brilliant answer, and I love that view. If someone's listening to this, they might be thinking, Well, what could I possibly offer them advice on? If you know, they know their business better than I do? Like, talk me through maybe some examples of how you can provide advice to the client? &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I think it's about the first thing is it's really about trying to make them and their brands successful. So there's no agency that successful when their clients aren't successful. So the first thing to think about is what could we do to make our clients and their brands more successful. And that could be just having a point of view on the current situation with their brands, it could be looking at what their competitors are doing. It could be just sharing some information about successful ideas that you've seen or work that you've seen. It's also I think about, about being, you know, massively ahead of the client curve as much as you can. So being aware of what's coming down the track for them. So again, being very close to their business. And, and thinking about what is the next thing that's coming down the track or the next three things that are coming down the track? And how could if I was in their shoes, how would I prepare for that? How would I What would I ask an agency to do? What would I want them to come and come to and to do? And then specifically in the agency, I think it's it's really about inspiring a team or the team to constantly outperform, to constantly think about what is not okay, don't settle for what's okay. Because anyone can just deliver, you know, what's what's been asked for? It's always about pushing for what is the next world class result or next world class answer.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I love that. Always thinking ahead, always looking at future trends, things that are coming down the line that are going to be relevant, because we forget sometimes don't we, the client goes deep in their business, but they don't go wide. Like we go wide with different industries. And interestingly, I did another interview with another account manager from a different industry, funnily enough, and he was saying how much he brings. He looks for trends happening in other industries, completely different industries that you can borrow, and adapt. So that's fantastic advice for anyone that's aspiring to be really good at account management. So leading this team, a CSD. How do you spend your time and what do you think are the skills you need to really be good at the role of leading the account management team?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I think that i think some of the things that you can do. I'm sorry, could you repeat a question, Jenny? &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I've got this terrible habit of asking about three questions in one question. So it's nothing to do with you for the, I'm really looking for the skills that someone needs to be a good CSD, because I'm sure there'll be people listening to this, maybe you are an account managers level, account director level, but really want to go higher and advance their career, what are the skills they should be maybe looking to acquire, in order to be very effective in the role?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think you have to be quite organised. And I think you need to be able to simplify things. So I think it's very hard when you're dealing with clients who have often got, you know, lots and lots of plates spinning off and don't have a lot of time, they also may be paying the agency quite well. And they don't, they don't really want to spend more time than they need to, you know, talking to the agency about their problems, they want the agency to go and solve them. So I think the ability to think, very, very quickly and single mindedly about how to get to a solution is a really important part of the role, then I think sort of just being fascinated by what your clients businesses is, I can't reiterate how important I think that is, I think it's the most interesting part of the job. I mean, I was always taught to learn everything you can about your clients business, so that if they were unable to go back to work for a&nbsp; bit, you could step in and take their role. Now, that's, you know, obviously hugely arrogant, but it was a sort of nice, humble horizon two aim for it was like, you know, try and try to think of yourself, what are the things that your clients are worried about, that you could help them with, so that so much so that even if they weren't able to be in work that day, you could step in and probably, you know, help them that day when they weren't there? I think also banking as much as you can of what works. So find out what works. in marketing, find out the work that works, finding out the work that you admire, and your clients admire. And ask yourself as honestly, as you can, why do you think that work works? Why? Why is it really working? What is it? Why is it engaging with people? Why is it changing people's behaviour? Why is it changing people's perspectives? What is it about that idea, or that approach that changes how people view their lives? And the more you can sort of learn about those, the more you can have an interesting sort of bank of information like that bank of ideas, if you like, the more you can apply those across your different clients. And again, you know, having that when you when you see people that are fantastically rich with insight, it's, it's usually because they've got that knowledge, they've just banked as much knowledge as they possibly can. And they've got a very honest view of it. And they've been probably honest with themselves about how, how successful that thinking is, and why it's worked that they have been able to apply it to other other areas.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>That's such good advice, actually. Keeping abreast of what's happening in the marketplace, what what work is out there, what does your client like, you know, what works? Why did it work? How did it change behaviours? Great tips there. And in terms of your role as CSD, and your previous role as CSDhow much what was your role in client meetings? For example, you know, you have a team, they're going to be the sort of delivering the work, but how do you input? Where do you input? Where do you think you bring the most value?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, good question. I think I think one of the temptations is to is to sort of suffocate people in those sorts of meetings. And, and the best, I think the best CSDs do the opposite of that. So they're much more empowering. So they they will help and mentor and coach people going into the meetings, and even during the meetings will not chair the meeting, but they'll try to sort of ensure that the meeting flows well,&nbsp; the agendas adhere to any additional thinking that might not have been covered by the team could be brought in by the CSP, just to sort of embellish that thinking. But I think it's more about you know, setting the team up for success and&nbsp; allowing them to gain from your experience because the, the you know, ultimately you want that team to succeed. So the role of the CSD is not to take over the meeting or shine or run the meeting. Quite the opposite. It's more for them to my opinion, so then to empower and inspire the other team, the rest of the team to success.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I'm glad you said that, because I've had a lot of account managers say to me that they sit in the client meeting. And unfortunately, they're, you know, more senior peer takes over. And therefore, they end up not saying anything. And the client has the impression that you're there, you know, you shouldn't even be in the meeting, let alone have an opinion or a view. So I agree with you. It's good to orchestrate. So that you are, like you said, shining the light on the team? And how much juice does the CSD role get involved in agency operations, new business, other factors? Other than kind of, except developing and growing existing clients?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, well, it's it varies. I think it varies in different agencies. And my experiences is quite a lot in those two areas. So I think if you're running a reasonably big department, and then the agencies quite rightly expecting you to have a point of view on how the agency is operating, and how the work is coming through the agency, how it's coming into the agency, you know, is it all those things that would fit with operations? And then I think on new business, I think, again, you know,&nbsp; why wouldn't you put someone who's got lots of experience of different clients, and, you know, working on your business, into that into that sort of world as well. So, in all my experience on running as a CSD, I've had a lot of, you know, exposure to operations, a lot of exposure to new business. And I think, you know, quite rightly, because I think if you've had that sort of been lucky, like, I have to have that exposure to all that work, and all those different situations, it's, it's very, very helpful to have someone in the room who's, you know, just been in a similar position and face those sorts of challenges.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Brilliant. And could you maybe show us the other side? What do you think some of the challenges are in being a CSD?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, I think I think the, one of the biggest challenges is probably when something goes wrong. So you end up being quite rightly, you end up being the person that is accountable for something going wrong within the agency. And again, quite understandably, if something goes wrong, ultimately, is it's good to have someone that is accountable for it, and the buck stops with them. But I think that you know that anything that when it does go that wrong, I think the way to view them is that the way to view those situations is there's opportunities to fix them. So, again, I I learned from someone quite an early stage where they said there's there's never a problem there's always an opportunity. And, and in fact, they used to say if they weren't, if there weren't any problems, we wouldn't have jobs, which is a really nice way to think about it really sort of inspire me to think about how, how you how your role with clients is actually really perceived. And in fact, if something goes horribly wrong, as long as you fix it quickly, and fix it well, I've actually found it to be a very, very helpful thing. And people actually remember the agency that fixed the problem for them. They, they respect the agency that and the and the team of people that acknowledged it was a mistake, were honest about it, they didn't hide it, they they were completely open about it and transparent about it. And then, you know, authentically changed it, changed how they were, you know, and resolve the problem. And that's always for me has always been seen as a big positive by clients. &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>How would you describe your leadership style, Paul, because I know, you know, you, you have a very calm, experienced kind of approach, you know, that that's very reassuring for people that you are in charge of? How important do you think that is? For the team, you're, you know, I'd love you to spend a couple of minutes just talking about your leadership style and what works.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, I think I'm quite that's a very good question. I, I think I'm quite a sort of, as you say, I'm quite calm person, I doesn't really faze me. So I don't get fazed by big problems at work or stress at work. In fact, I thrive on it and I like it. And I think that, again, it sort of comes with having been in lots of situations, not the same situations before but similar situations or face similar problems, whereas you can normally see a way through it to an art to and to an answer that's going to be a successful answer. And I think my style is to try and help people to see the same answer that I can see without telling them that that's the answer because they in that way they learn as they go along. So it's a much more of a mentoring style and coaching style. And in some respects, it's, you know, it's I think it's quite a strong leadership style, because you're constantly encouraging people to go the extra mile to do the extra step to just think beyond what's being asked. And of course, when they work it out eventually for themselves that that is the answer. They'll never forget it. And so they then repeat it. So I think that that sort of style has always worked for me, and I've never been a sort of cheerleader leadership style, it just isn't me. I'm much more, I think, considered and more sort of calm than that. And I think that, probably, because that's how I reacted to my previous bosses. I prefer that kind of a, of a boss and that lead, and I respond to that, and it, you know, inspires me. And so I've basically adapted that style. And, you know, it's been very helpful to me.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I hope there are agency leaders out there listening to this, because I agree with you, 100%, I think it's so much more, we've used the word empowering, but you make your team so much more independent, don't you? If you're you're training them to think in that way. And the only way they're going to do that, rather than you being the hero, that you become the guide. So I think it's a fantastic management style. And what what changes? I'm interested because you've been in the industry for so long, what changes have you seen throughout your time in terms of how agencies are operating?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, I think I think there's been quite a split now. So quite polarisation is possibly a little bit to do with COVID. Actually, but I think for the last sort of 10 years, there's been a split between short termism and more sort of, you know, kind of sales very sales focused, and what I was saying earlier about being a trusted advisor, and I think that's that is starting to polarise the business a little bit. And it's, I think, partly driven by, you know, that the pressure on agencies to become more profitable, if you like, in a, you know, what's a, you know, a tougher world now has forced some of the agencies into that kind of world of short term sales, rather than, you know, being a more long term partner and having a, you know, more sort of longer term view with your clients. And I think the other big changes, I mean, everyone will say this is is the understanding is the, the requirement for the whole agency, but particularly account management to understand digital, the digital revolution. So I think that, you know, in the past, I think some agencies were able to get by with not everyone embracing that. But I think that it's utterly impossible now, if you're not, you need to be interested in it, you need to be curious about it, you need to understand it, you need to genuinely embrace it. And you see the people that haven't, and then they're not, you know, they're not really working in the industry anymore, because they just haven't chosen, they haven't chosen to embrace it.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, what would you say? If anyone's listening thinking, oh, gosh, that's me, I'm not moving fast enough with the times do you feel that there's any sources of, you know, any people that you follow, or any sources of information you, you listen to or read, to keep you ahead of what's happening, what's changing so quickly.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So I'm lucky enough to have children of the age that they are sort of innately intuitively digital, so source is to talk to them, they're, they're so knowledgeable. But it's mainly other people. So I've found in the agencies without words, that that's the best source for people to, to you know, to take to to learn from, I mean, just by hanging around with those people, you just by osmosis gained so much knowledge and you know, once you connect with them, they're sharing as much as as much as you need to know they're sharing everything you mean, you don't need to be so, you know, did so involved in it. But you do need to know enough to be able to advise clients and be and frankly be trusted by clients on it. So I yeah, I mean, I do follow a lot of people on social in this sort of area, but it's there's none of that, you know, there's no one particular person I draw out but I think just having a hunger for it and being interested in it and and enjoying it is is probably the best advice.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I agree because I don't work in an agency full time I still am plugged into the agency strategists and they share a lot of their learnings and thoughts. And, and I've learned so much. I mean, I think a lot of the agency strategists look to different industries for what's changing and evolving, like gaming and sports and music in different industries, and they get their influence from there. And yeah, I think that's that's a good point. And what, what, if any challenges do you think have particularly been presented to agencies around working remotely?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, I think I think the biggest challenge is the, it is harder to build and maintain relationships. So you know, and also, I think the ability to see, body language on these calls is very, very difficult. If you're working with a client, you know it and it's not just for the agency to see whether the client likes what you're talking about, or what you're sharing, or whatever, it's the other way around as well is that everyone misses I think that kind of body language. And if you're not connecting regularly, and you're only connecting virtually through video calls, then I think that's disproportionately affecting some of the situations because of COVID. I think the ways to sort of overcome it. I don't think there's a rocket science thing for this, I think, I think you need to have, you know, regular calls with your clients. But not just when you need a call. So I think it's worth sort of establishing them. But most people are open to having a conversation or a quick coffee or beer in the evening, or whatever it is just it's just a nice way to make it as normal as you can, to normalise it as it was prior to COVID. I think regular sharing of anything you find of interest, any articles, you see any links you see, I think, you know, there's it's not again, rocket science, but I think that is something that people enjoy. I think they respect it, they like the fact that you're thinking about their business and, you know, to earlier points, that's what you should be doing all the time, you should be constantly thinking about how can I make my clients life easier? How can I make them more successful. And then I think, you know, just the small thing is, I think when you're on video calls, I think it's quite easy to miss what the action points are as a result, or what the summary of that particular video call is, because they're a slightly different experience for both parties. And I think it's, you know, a lot of a lot of agencies, I think, have sort of lost the, you know, the, the contact report, or the call report of those meetings, has sort of fallen a bit by the wayside. And I still think those are very important documents, because they're not political documents, they're just summaries of meetings, which help, you know, as people go from one call to the next to the next to the next, they just help everyone to work out what they need to do as a result of that call. And I think it just is a, again, it's another thing that you can follow up with to keep the contact going.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, keeping everything on board. Absolutely keeping everything on track and keeping it moving forward. And, Paul, you've got an awful lot of experience with global brands working on global accounts. What do you think if there is an agency listening, thinking, I want to be working more with global level accounts, rather than local? Do you have any kind of, can you explain to us, what are the key differences in terms of how the agency operates?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, I think you can only really work properly with global accounts, if you have a global outlook. So I think you have to be someone that is, you know, is&nbsp; interested in what's going on in the world. So most of the global clients that I've ever worked with are, some of them are really, really genuinely global citizens, you know, they've lived all over the world, they you almost don't know what nationality they are, because they're so global. And they are very interested in what's happening in the world, all over the world. And in fact, they can look at any part of the world and see their company or their brands challenges in that particular environment. So I think the ability to think beyond just the domestic world that you're in, as an agency person, and look for inspiration around the world, in different markets, different countries, different brands, different companies in those countries and markets is it's a bit like just being very curious about your clients business, butexploded across the world. And I think I think it's, you know, it's just really about immersing yourself in that and genuinely looking and but you have to be genuinely interested in that. You have to want to do that. You can't just go, I wish we could be more global, you have to go, I'm interested in the challenges that this particular brand is facing in this country. I wonder how we could help them in this country, and connecting the two and growing and growing from there it is, it is a different sort of mindset. That doesn't come from just having an office in another country, you have to have people on the team who have that global perspective and interest. And, it's, frankly, a sort of cultural interest in what what different different differences and similarities there are, across the world.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>There's a theme coming out of this isn't there, I mean, for in terms of behaviours and skills that you need to get far in an account management career is really continuing to have that interest, that thirst for knowledge, that curiosity, as you say, to really put yourself in the client's shoes, and to really immerse yourself in their world so that you can become more valuable. So thank you for continuing with that theme. Can you give us any examples of where you as a client services director has really added value to either your agency or the client or both? &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, I think you know, resolving conflicts within the agency, I think, is an important part of the role. So inevitably, when you've got lots and lots of bright people with very strong opinions, who think they're right, and both parties might well be right. But in the end, you often need a sort of mediation person who can bring, you know, the team back together again, accept the fact in fact, even applaud the fact that there might be a know, difference of opinion. But you know, often great creative ideas come out of, you know, very strong differences of opinion. And you kind of need to encourage that, yet treat it on a very professional basis, rather than a personal basis. So I think the Client Services Director, in those situations, you know, a big part of the role is to be able to galvanise the team, bring everyone back into the pointing in the same direction, accept the fact that nothing is personal. It's not a personal point of view, it's just a business decision or business disagreement. And, you know, and get everyone back back together and pointed in the same in the right direction, and almost agree to disagree in those situations.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Something just occurred to me while you were talking there, because you also experienced and if you are leading a team, and someone's listening to this as a CSD already, and they want to maybe get more inroads within their client companies to have C suite level conversations, do you have any kind of tips that you could share from your experience of doing so?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, again, I think, as you said, you know, a lot of them all roads tend to lead to sort of being as interested as you can, in your clients business. And the more interested you are, the more likely they are to share the issues that they're facing. They will ask, they'll, you know, open up to more situations where they think you might be able to help. And ultimately, the more the further up the sort of ladder, you can get to being a trusted adviser, you almost get to the point where you can ask, you know, I'd love to be moving up into a sort of, you know, C suite, or I'd love to meet so and so who's got this issue that you've talked about? Could you introduce me to them, and the closer that bond with yourself and the clients, the more likely they are to say, you know, what, I think, you know, A should meet B, because they've got an interesting perspective on something that we didn't realise they had a perspective on. So the more the more you can, you know, listen, and ask questions about your clients business, I mean, informed questions, you obviously are trying to get, you know, a proper perspective, a professional perspective. But the more you asked that, the more likely, in my experience, you are to sort of be introduced to a wider audience within, of clients within an organisation.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It comes down to having that valuable point of view, doesn't it? And if you're bringing external perspective, external trends, things that are happening that the client needs to be aware of, then they may spend some time with you. But if you're not kind of part of that conversation, and I call it the begging bowl approach, you know, like, can I have five minutes with no, if you want five minutes with me, you have to bring something of value, because they're busy people. And how do you think agencies just in the future are gonna continue to evolve? And how can we prepare for that?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think, I think agencies will continue to be under sort of financial pressure And I think that they will increasingly move into as many deliverables, the many areas have different sort of skill sets within the agencies. And I think that's probably potentially quite dangerous area for agencies to go into, because I feel that a lot of the sort of deliverable natures of what agencies are doing now is, is being offshored, it's being sort of pushed down the cost of it or being pushed down. Whereas the, for me the more upstream strategic thinking, for an agency is where the future for agencies lies. So I think the ability to come up with will help clients come up with powerful strategies for success, but also to be able to help them deliver what needs to be done in order to achieve that is a is a nice to have. But I think that the upstream thinking is where agencies will increasingly successful agencies will increasingly be more successful.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, that's, that's good advice. I mean, I follow I don't know if you've heard of Tim Williams from ignition Consulting Group. He always talks about pricing models. And, as does Blair Ends, but you know, how we price I think, probably needs a revamp, and I know, many agencies are doing that successfully moving to more value based pricing, etc. But I think I think you're probably right. I mean, we are, you know, a lot of the work that we do is commoditized, unless you're bringing something different unless you're adding the value that we've been discussing. So that's, that's good perspective. Do you have any tips or advice for anyone who is aspiring to be a CSD in their career? Any, any words of wisdom?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, I think, you know, I will, again, reiterate that I'd be as curious as you possibly can about your clients. And I'd be as helpful as I can, as you can to all your team members around you. So the more you've got people within the agency saying, you know, he or she is a fantastic asset to our team, they really, really bring the team together, they identify the vision that we should be heading after. They're very, very, you know, truthful, they act with integrity, they never talk behind people's backs, they they eradicate the politics that inevitably exists in some of these places. And the ending, if the same is being said by clients, then I think you know, you, you're well on your way. And then I think just you know, it's important just to enjoy it. No one likes people who look like they're in, in pain, doing their job, they really want to be surrounded by people that are enjoying it. And the more the more you surround yourself with people that are enjoying it, the better&nbsp; the job is, you know, I mean, it's a pivotal role in an agency. And I think if you're in the world of account management, I can't understand I could never understand why someone wouldn't want to be even more pivotal as the CSD and enjoy it. Because it's, it's a, you know, no day is the same. It's&nbsp; a fantastically exciting role, where you just have a different challenge every day all day.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>it really comes across that you enjoy your job pool, which is a joy to see. And I absolutely love your insight into sort of modelling the behaviour that you want to see in your team. Because if you're all stressed out, no time, a little bit aggressive, you know, you start blaming others, that just sets the tone for the whole agency, doesn't it? Yeah, and I believe I mean, I've worked like yourself since the early 90s in agencies, and I think leadership really starts at the top. So the behaviours that you have are going to filter through the agency. So enjoying your work, you know, embracing challenge, embracing change, and setting the tone, I think is that's a fabulous tip to finish on actually. Do you have anything else? Anything that I have haven't asked you that I probably should have done?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I don't think so. That was a thorough set of questions. We've covered everything. &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, saying thank you so much, Paul. And it's yeah, it's been a pleasure to chat to you. Thank you so much for spending the time with me today.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Paul &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Thank you, Jenny. Thanks a lot.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2021 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/18pllk78.mp3" length="48193744" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/bea02d40-72b7-11eb-bb3f-df8e0bb5dd1c/bea02e70-72b7-11eb-9d3a-97b1bcacb646.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2409</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Paul Kirkley has spent his entire career in agency account management. He knew from a young age he wanted to work in advertising and has certainly fulfilled his ambition.

He now works for one of the UK's top creative agencies, MadeBrave as Client Services Director and his experience includes 20 years with JWT (now Wunderman Thompson) working as Global Business Director for brands such as Nestle, Jaguar and Kenco (JDE) where he also lead a client services team of 120.

In this chat, he shares:

* Why always being curious and genuinely interested in the client's business is key to success
* How seeing the world through the eyes of each agency department and understanding their motivations sets you up for success in your account management role
* Why the best briefings come out of the best questioning and listening
* Tips for how to become a client's trusted advisor
* How to lead, inspire and set the account management team up for success
* The skills you need to be an effective client services director
* How to make sure you stay relevant and valuable to your client
* The biggest challenges faced by client services directors and how to prepare for them
* How remote working has changed the way account managers now interact with clients 
* What skills you need to work with global brands
* How to be introduced to the client's C-Suite
* How agencies will evolve in the future

and lots more...</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Paul Kirkley has spent his entire career in agency account management. He knew from a young age he wanted to work in advertising and has certainly fulfilled his ambition.

He now works for one of the UK's top creative agencies, MadeBrave as Client Services Director and his experience includes 20 years with JWT (now Wunderman Thompson) working as Global Business Director for brands such as Nestle, Jaguar and Kenco (JDE) where he also lead a client services team of 120.

In this chat, he shares:

* Why always being curious and genuinely interested in the client's business is key to success
* How seeing the world through the eyes of each agency department and understanding their motivations sets you up for success in your account management role
* Why the best briefings come out of the best questioning and listening
* Tips for how to become a client's trusted advisor
* How to lead, inspire and set the account management team up for success
* The skills you need to be an effective client services director
* How to make sure you stay relevant and valuable to your client
* The biggest challenges faced by client services directors and how to prepare for them
* How remote working has changed the way account managers now interact with clients 
* What skills you need to work with global brands
* How to be introduced to the client's C-Suite
* How agencies will evolve in the future

and lots more...</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What can creative agency account managers learn from an account manager in the software industry?, with James Aldrich</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/rn7ky64n</link>
      <itunes:title>What can creative agency account managers learn from an account manager in the software industry?, with James Aldrich</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>18</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">k18qm2y0</guid>
      <description>James Aldrich is a major account manager with over twenty years experience in both business development and account management in the software industry.

James's sector speciality is telecommunications and I invited him to share his experience to see similarities and differences between the account management role in the creative industry and software industry.

Despite starting his career wanting to be a film director or a guitarist in a band, he found himself in account management which has not only opened up many career opportunities but has also allowed him to fulfil his ambitions outside of work.

In this brilliant chat, James shares his thoughts on:

* How your own network is one of the most important aspects of your role and how it can bring value to your clients, your company and to your own career
* Why it's important to choose a company to work for that aligns with your personal values
* How and when to ask for referrals
* Why business development and account management are similar roles
* How sharing insight into how other industries work can bring value to your clients
* How 'buddy systems' enable junior account team members to get up to speed quickly 
* Why taking a 'customer first' approach to everything you do leads to success
* The importance of ensuring every client communication and touchpoint reflects your company values
* Why you should learn from how other industries operate
* Why you should always be curious and look ahead to what's changing in your industry and your client's industries

I really enjoyed this chat and I hope you come away with some reminders and inspiration for other things you could be doing in your career or role that will be valuable to you, your client and your agency.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So today's episode, I've got something a little bit different. I'm really thrilled to say that James Aldrich has joined me. And James actually works in account management, but in a completely different industry. And I thought how exciting it would be to have someone from a completely different industry to give us a perspective on account management, to see what we can learn from other industries. So James Aldrich, he works in the software industry, and he looks after accounts, in the telco space. So James, would you mind spending a few minutes just talking about your role? And how you actually got into account management?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>James &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, thanks, Jenny. So I'm in a major account director, I've been selling software and being an account manager for 21 years now. And I wanted to be in sales. And of course, you know, from business development into account management when, when you bring new clients on board. And so I've had a mix between hunting and farming the last 21 years.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And tell me, you know, the value of account management because I asked the same question to everyone. But I would love to hear it from your perspective, having been both in the business development side and the account management side, what do you think the value of the role of account management brings to both your company and also to your clients?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>James &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, I think that I don't really, honestly see a huge amount of difference between business development and account management, I think that part of what you're doing is looking after a client is to extend your network anyway, which is very similar in the way that you do with your account. And how you establish the relationship between your company and yourself. And the the client as well is, is a kind of a reflection of within the pre sales process, and how it should be within the post sales process as well. So the value I bring to my clients A is a knowledge of expertise within the platform that we support and sell for service, also within the industry, but also as a conduit into other organisations as well. A lot of my clients want to learn what other companies are doing sometimes within their own industry and outside of it as well and, and give an idea on best practice and, and opportunities that they could leverage through this kind of combined network as well. So kind of the value that I bring to my companies for that is a single point of contact, I have access to some of the best people in my industry, that work for my company, that support me, I'm very lucky in that base as well. And they are always a professional reflection upon the company. But more importantly on me as an individual, my integrity to that organisation, because ultimately, in business development people buy from people. And through account management, that trust is sort of elongated through the lifecycle of a client.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>You said something really interesting to me, before we had before we had this interview, which was your values, and you said, it's really important for me to align my personal values with the values of the company I'm working for? Can you finish off that story? Because I thought it was so, such a powerful thing to say. And you started off by saying that, but it was the most important thing for you. Why is that good?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Yeah, it is, I think, through your career, the one thing that follows you is a reflection of your behaviour through each of your clients, and the value we bring is your network. So everybody that works with me and for me on the support of my clients, I say that these are your clients, what is your contacts, you know, and how you define yourself is a reflection on the values of you in an individual, if there's a misalignment between my company values and how we behave. And me personally, that becomes an integrity issue. And it won't just sit with that company, it sits with the individual as well. So yeah, values are 70% of the reason why I work for a particular organisation are the values match between what I believe is important. And of course, you align them to the client as well. And that's why business development and account management sre not that different, because because it's a continuation of it. So the company feels that they can work with individuals. But primarily, they believe the platform that we support and sell is the best in the market and meets the requirements. And they're also going to be able to follow that through because in any project that I do, occasionally there are issues that come up. And you need, the client needs to feel as though we're approachable and we're contactable and they need to feel that we have their sustainability and success at heart. And that is really at the heart of the core values we say customer first in everything we do. We also talk about white gloves experience, you know, making sure that every point of contact within my organisation and how we engage and interact has to be a certain level of dedication, quality and it has to reflect the values of that company. Primarily authenticity for me is the most important thing you know, we talk about being your true self. You can't fake it. It's you can't fake passion. You can't fake enthusiasm. You're either enthusiastic for what you're supporting and what you're selling or you're enthusiastic to work with the client you're working with, and you're enthusiastic in the role you've got. And again, making sure that the core of that is, in your values is the most important thing for me personally. And the reason why I choose in my career who I work for,</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>There's a couple of things that I want to pull out there, which were really interesting for me, the first thing you said, which I think is gonna resonate with a lot of people listening is I also bring the value of my network. Just the first part of the question really is, how proactive were you and have you been in networking? You know, and how do you network?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Okay, yeah, honestly, everything. So my, before I joined my current company, I work for a company called Anaplan. And before that was Oracle, and for that SAP, so I work for big organisations that will already have an established brand within a particular organisation. And when you join a smaller company, and you're starting to reach out, you realise, in part that the value you had previously as being part of a big company, like Oracle doesn't exist anymore, so you really need to re establish your customer brand. And that is through the network. So there's a lot of pressure on people at the moment, especially in during the day, how do you get access? How do you reach out to people, because you can't call up an office cold calling is completely unacceptable. In my view, if you're calling someone's personal mobile that on LinkedIn, you can get access to people's mobiles, or companies that will gather people's personal mobile, but for me, it doesn't reflect the ethics of how I manage it. So I don't I do it through referrals. I do it through referrals with a partner that we work with the GSIs, or do it through other companies that I've worked with, or, or people that I know already. So these days, everybody knows everything, and everybody can find everything out. So and I think 80% of the sale is done before you even engage with the client. So how you represent your network, and how you support your network is probably the most important thing in my role, which, if I know that I'm introducing people that will add value to the clients that I'm working with. And also will support the credibility that I'm working hard to establish within that as well, then it becomes kind of a quid pro quo, we'll support each other through that journey. And the partners that I work with like Deloitte, Accenture, EY etc, they will help introduce me into different organisations because they know that I reflect a particular level of expertise within my field, which is a value to the clients that they're engaging with as well. And then again, it's completely aligned to what is the objectives of our companies collectively. And ultimately, I'm going to keep saying and sustainability of the clients because at the moment, it's not about how, what are you going to plan for what comes next is about the speed at which you react to it. So if I can help become a conduit into my organisations to support that. And people are losing their roles as well, they're losing their jobs as well. So part of what I'm doing as well as is engaging them with other companies that are looking for people because one one industry come down, another goes up. And you know, technology is being pretty, weathering exceptionally well. So if we can help support those individuals through that journey, it becomes a much longer career plan for myself and for them as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>With referrals, do you tend to organically sort of receive referrals? Or do you actually actively ask for referrals, where it benefits you? &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>James &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, every every, there's one of the things I always find at the end of every meeting is is somebody else, this will be a value to somebody else, that it'd be useful to somebody else that I could speak to as well. Nine times out of 10 or so why don't I just keep it to me that becomes quite personal. With what I do and what we do. However, there's it quite often resonates you can get, you can sort of grow that network as well. And I do that as well, with the partners we work with where we know they're engaged in different clients, you know, who can you recommend that we go speak to, can I reference you kind of reference our conversation and then try and gain access that way you got to be a lot smarter these days on how you grow it's a lot slower a hell of a lot slower to work. But I was lucky that because of the company I'm currently with and I built it up from nothing that I'm well established in that area now. And as one of my clients will tell me, there's nothing that's been thrown at us we haven't managed to deliver upon. And when you meet that expectation in any conversation, you have and any form of communication you have whether or not you put a LinkedIn post, you're doing a direct mail, you know, on any form of communication or credit or webinar, it's my time is more valuable now and my home life is more disrupted. Ensure that it's very specific to that individual. I don't think the shotgun effect that you know, we used to do back in the early 2000s it really works anymore, I think. I think it's gonna be much more tailored and much more specific and a lot gentler as well. A lot softer touch. This is of interest, if it is great. If not, is there somebody else I can, do you think it will work for?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>You see, that's, I mean, it makes total sense. And it's, it feels like a no brainer when you say it, but actually, I teach people how to ask for referrals. Because, believe it or not, one of the things people struggle with is actually how to ask. And particularly if you're an account management role, and you're asking your client for a referral, you know, you've obviously got a long standing relationship with them. And you don't want to damage that relationship. So there's a real fear sometimes with, you know, appearing too pushy, you know, saying it in the wrong way, getting a rejection, any tips or advice or words of wisdom for anyone that's maybe in that position?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>James &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think part of the, your intuition should tell you, you know, I always say go eager on everything. If you don't feel it the right time, then don't do it. And it's a pretty simple thing to do. But, but I think it's quite a British thing to do, America's much more accepting of sales. And the acceptance of the role in one of these is quite an embarrassing thing, we believe to be involved with that. But I think as soon as you accept that there should be a level of empathy. And if you've been respectful and appreciative of a person's time, they should also understand that you're doing a role and doing your job as well. And never be afraid just to say, you know, just somebody else I could talk to, and or can you put me in contact with so and so? And are you happy for me to use your name when I do it? No, okay, they'll give me their email address or whatever. Because the way that you've reflected yourself in that first conversation should set the bar of how you reflect yourself in the next conversation. Because if you're asking somebody to refer you, and you've gone in, poorly, you've gone in aggressively or too pushy, then they're not going to refer you full stop, you know, if you really want to wind up somebody in sales, then you get a call from a headhunter that's very aggressive. And you should pass the name of one of your friends or somebody you don't like and say, yeah, go get them in a conversation. But I think that and that actually, for me, for two things have really transformed everything. One is in my industry SaaS, Software as a Service, it is easier to cancel a subscription and replace something because technology is, is so agile these days, whereas when I worked at Oracle, you know, the investment level, and how complicated it was to put in place, and you're stuck. So the renewal becomes more important. And that's why if you get a win, and you get somebody that buys into it, and you make them personally successful, and you appreciate that there is something personal for them in it, then it becomes a no brainer for them to make that referral and be part of that journey as well. And I know I'm sort of jumping between that first point of contact, you know, finding the contact, reaching out getting the project, but exactly the same step throughout the process, which is whether or not business development, account management, pre/ post sales, you know, the quality and clarity of communication is what's important. And know your subject, know the industry, know the client, and reflect yourself with a with a level of credibility as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Tell me about those renewal conversations you have, like you said, that's a really important point. And particularly if you're, you know, what the average value of one of your accounts is approximately how much?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>James &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I'm not really allowed to say I'm afraid, but it is publicly available information but our earnings coming out soon. So I'm not gonna say anything about that. But let's just say, yeah, it's between high six and seven figures, it's between what I worked with as well, and but it sort of becomes it to me, the value that's realised off the back of it. So we I make a very conscious effort to work with a client and get my team to work with them to help them at certain points understand what is the value of an investment, because again, it can be lost, you invested this much, what was your, you know, not just your ROI, but what's your hard and soft touch value of it. So at the renewal point, if you're thinking, well, we're spending seven figures, but we're making 10 figures back easily, or, you know, or 10, plus, you know, spending a million you get a hundred million back, that's a pretty good level of investment. And, and we can demonstrate those kind of things. So the renewal point, it shouldn't be a point of, we want it cheaper, we want the same but for cheaper, it should be very much a point of all we getting the value we expected out of the back of it, if we've done our job right, then the renewal becomes a no brainer, but but I always say up front of my first ever meeting, the renewal is more important than the land. We don't get the land right, then we won't get the renewal and for the sustainability of my company, as a shareholder in my company, as well, that the renewal become more important. It's their long term goal. And if you get that land, then you get the opportunity to meet expectation, you get the opportunity to grow or expand through that journey, then the renewal is even bigger than when it started but but with a focus on the value to the client. Because if again, if your investment levels, a client there and the return you're getting is there, based on whatever business case you're measuring against, then yeah, it's a no brainer. Oh, by the way, if you repeat that same principle across every part of your business, then your investment level doesn't accelerate as quick as that. But the savings, the incremental value to accelerate far greater as well. And often companies like in, especially in the software industry, they don't take the time to work with a client to help them understand that. Somebody who originally invested in it leaves, somebody else comes in, we've got this stuff, we don't really understand what benefit we're getting from that. But we've always been using it. And it's such an important aspect of what we do. Because when you go on from what we used to sell, which was on premises technology, let's make a significant investment, and spend a year implementing or two years implementing it and we're stuck. Now you can make a reasonable investment. And you can get in place within a month or two. And and you get value within the fiscal year. And we need to just continually measure ourselves against a client's expectation of value and I've said values a lot and value. But yeah, my core values and value monetary or intangible or tangible benefits the client as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>That's a really good point. I've got an idea for the podcast title now. Okay. So I was thinking, actually what you said, a lot of this comes down to the metrics that you calculate at the beginning, isn't it? Like, what is the value that we're expecting to provide to this client based on the investment they're making, and what we've seen as the expected returns, and then it's about making sure that it that is visible throughout the relationship, you know, until you get to the point of renewal, because then you can prove what you've achieved for the clients. So and I think the reason I'm saying that is because sometimes in the creative industry, it's less easy to, to have those hard metrics at the beginning, or, you know, it's overlooked. So I think what you're saying is to put you in a good position, you need to reflect back at those renewal moments to say, look how much we've achieved look at what we've done so far, so that it the renewal becomes a decision that they make, very easily. &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>James &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Through the journey, just some of the products I do, they're looking for hard benefits, but a lot of the products also get intangible or soft benefits off the back of it, and they should never be ignored. I mean, in my view of productivity and efficiency gains, what can you do, what better decisions you have you made after using what we're doing? How do you better support your customer. And ultimately, within the industry, I support Intel telco, it's all about the customer journey. So the same way that I try and ensure that every touchpoint I have with my client is a certain pedigree, the best we can or honesty to say honesty is probably better, because there's things we can do and things we can't do. And it's better that the client knows that as early as possible, as well, in the same way that they try and do the same thing as well for their customers. But if you've got 32 million or 54 million customers, that's a lot to manage and support that way, but they try and reflect every project they try and do is how does it impact the customer? Does it give us one version of the customer, so that there may not be an instantly recognisable, tangible benefit to a hard metric against that, you know, a lot of that's realised after you've done it. And actually is one thing, I do see that the Americans do very, very well in their products, they'll, they'll, if they got 10 projects, they'll kick off 10 projects, two of them won't work, but the other 8 will be great. A lot of the again, the cultural difference over here is they're much more much more conservative with what we're going to do. If it already works, why why fix it? And you'll say, well, it doesn't need fixing, it needs improving. And there's something else that COVID has really transformed as well, it's given company, the opportunity now to think about where they're going to be in three years, and focus very much on what the outcome is going to be everything's about the outcome, how are we going to be able to put ourselves in a position to come out of this quickly. And not just within what I do, but everything around supply chain and supporting networks as well, are built around this, as well and intelligent, you know, individuals that I work with that are really thinking, well, I already understand what we do within our industry. Tell me what that industry is doing. What can we learn from that industry? And the thing about software companies are they're kind of a conduit between different industries, you know, we're like a central point that we work with oil and gas, work with travel and transpor,t work with the banks, you know, and and there's not that many other industries that do cover such a wide spectrum of knowledge base as well. And, again, that's the network value is, you know, would you be interested in learning what such and such does, you know, and yeah, can you put me in contact with the CFO of HSBC or something and and that's really what we're trying to add value for when I just ended up becoming a conduit. Mainly the most important thing for me is that is a it's a, it's a well used quote, but Steve Jobs said about having people that are better than him working for him. And it's the same thing I try and do with in my team as well. I understand that there are things that they do a hell of a lot better than me in different areas. And then just making sure they're able to do it. And I know we talked about this previously. And that's a sense of fun, it can be really tough, when you are under a lot of pressure to deliver something within a particular timeframe. And you've done everything you can you try to control as much as you can, and you get to the point there's nothing else you can control it is up to the client there. And then it could be out of their control as well. And you have to accept that. But through that whole through the whole journey, the way you motivate internally is important as to how you motivate externally as well. And that's the sense of passion, enthusiasm. And I go back to values. And my team know that because I'm speak so passionately about the values they're collected, they know that no decision I'm going to make is going to be counterproductive to the client. Because they don't have the targets that I have. They're interested purely in the client, My interest is my customer or my company as well, I made sure we meet our number. And, you know, I try my best to reflect that. And you know, I've been very lucky, very successful in doing so. But I always say that, especially now, we may need to make decisions in the short term that are in the client's interest more than they're in our interest. So we need to balance the scales a little bit more in their favour, make them sustainable, and we'll see the benefit in the long term.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I'd like to focus in on that on the targets that you set by your company. And also perhaps this could be tied into how you grow an account. You know, so you've got a really good client, it's huge. You've got a team working on it. Presumably those touch points throughout the relationship are what do they do like quarterly business reviews or kind of strategic meetings that you're having on an ongoing basis reflecting on the metrics on progress? Or do you get invited to client planning meetings? Or C suite conversations?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>James &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, all of the above pretty much. Yeah. So it depends basically, where they are within a cycle. So they're seasonal, in part that they're are more important periods than others. It depends on whether or not , sorry to use the word again, that whether or not we add value in joining that meeting, and doing so we have a role and a purpose to play. If we don't don't do it, there's, you know, things that be more important to do. I'm dead against meetings for the sake of meetings, even more now that I'm at home, and you can see your day via slot, a 30 minute meetings with no lunch break or anything, it becomes impossible and managing hours worked longer. So what we try and do is really reflect, you know, get an agenda really tight on what we're doing and why we're doing it. But the other other, we call them 'art of the possible' sessions that we do quite often with C suite, which is, again, you know, what could else we'd be doing, let's use our imagination to come up with something else we could be doing. And then we pull in the relevant people from our external companies that have an expertise within a particular field to support that. The cadence is important internally as well. Because I don't feel the need to be on every call that I have, that my company has with a client, I just made sure they're all aligned to the same strategy within there as well. And I trust the people that manage that and support that as well. So but that can, that can be reflected throughout the year. But a lot of what we do is we get pulled into, we want to do this, can Anaplan do it? And you know, the thing about what I, what we sell into the service we have in the platform that was built is that yeah, it pretty much can do anything. And it's pretty unique in the marketplace, which is why we've been very successful. But ultimately it comes, we drive it right back to education, make sure the client knows how the expectation what they're going to deliver. And that's when we set up the project plan, in effect of, you know, when are we going to do the sprints, when we're going to have the reviews, you know, the scrum reviews and the different parts throughout the process. And as it's going to get busier at that point when we agree the user stories and then deliver against them, okay, we'll get more meetings and manage that follow my role is to make sure that my team are not pulled into too many meetings, that are not reflective of what they should be doing as well. And it's just everything. There's no set structure to anything, it all depends on whether or not as well, the client wants to have that conversation. So although, you know, sometimes we become a bit reactive, which is absolutely fine. And we should be more reactive at this point as well. We made the recommendation, can we have a conversation? You don't know what we're gonna be talking about, then don't do the meeting. Yeah. And that's why a lot of people in my company want to talk to my clients, they want to, oh, can we be introducing such and such and talking about? What do you want to talk about? No, there's no value and having that conversation with that individual, I can give you that information. So let's step away from that. And, and part of that's me protecting because of course, all of my colleagues want oh could your client go and talk to this one? Because we really want them to do that project. Okay, and I get that a lot, you know, 10 times a week or something. No, that's not in the my clients interested do so. But, you know, on the back of it and one of my big clients has done a number of events in the last couple of weeks. We've delivered their project we've delivered against expectation and now they're talking about it. And again, it's that's the longer goal, which is the reference out the back of it. And it's that's the mass market reference goes on YouTube goes on LinkedIn, you know, goes on The Economist, all that kind of stuff now and then anybody can see that on and guess what, then we start getting the inbounds coming through off the back of that kinds of thing, we want to find out what they did we want to learn more how I did it. And then we go back in that journey of cadence control. Sorry if I've gone on a bit there.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>No, no, not at all. I'm taking notes as you're speaking, because obviously, this is very relatable for an account manager that might be listening that's working in the creative industry. And what you've said, which is really interesting, that I think we can all learn from is how do you raise your own value for the client, and what you've said, You've said a few things, really getting under their skin and understanding what their goals are, and being quite protective of their kind of time, and who gets exposure. Also, your knowledge of other industries, you know, that must be very valuable for them when they want a perspective on how other people do it if they've got a particular challenge or problem. Also your expertise, because&nbsp; you've built up your expertise in one particular area, which is obviously very valuable. And then the value of your network, who do you know, who can you bring to the table? Who can you introduce us to, that could also, you know, you said I'm bringing in other experts, because I can see that they they can lend some additional value. So I think, you know, everything that you're saying here is, is very relatable for our industry as well. And there's perhaps sparks some ideas for other people to think about what they could be doing differently, to make themselves more valuable.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>James &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Honestly, I don't really see any, if we base it in sales, I don't see any difference in in any industry or anything you're doing. I think you know, whether or not you're selling a car, or you're selling medicine, or you're selling phones or anything like that, the first thing is understand what is the value to the person you're selling to. So it's not feature function, chuck it out, I'm really big on that, I mean, when I go and buy a Telly or DVD player, and the sales guy just started telling me a whole lot of stuff that I had no interest in, I one particular thing I wanted in this telly. And I ended up just walking around doing it myself online. And that's the big difference of note that he added no value. So I didn't follow through the process. And by the way in onboarding, as well, you get to a point where you're happy to pay a premium, if you know you're going to get something good off the end of it and doing that. And that's the value. So imagine as a baseline cost for anything you're going to buy. But so the bigger reason you're buying from that particular organisation is the people. And yeah, that's all to do with the value where the regardless of what you're selling, and what you're supporting your clients with. It's the same principle. The specifics are the product. The specifics are who you're selling to, but the nature of how you behave yourself. And that's the, that's the authenticity bit that there are good people in this industry in account management, they're are not so good ones. Yeah, people can be very successful. through no fault of their own, I say, because they're very lucky, their timing, they're on point, but they sort of get found out and you get your culture, right, and your work ethic, right, and you do the right behaviours, and then ultimately, you'll be successful. And the people around you should support you in doing so as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Absolutely, because the end result actually is a little bit of a commodity. And for many clients, it's about the experience of working with you as well, like, Is it a pain in the ass to get to the end result, you know, you might be getting me the same business outcome, but I want to kind of make sure that that journey isn't like pulling teeth. And going back to my previous question about growing an account. You know, obviously, there are different ways of growing an account. But tell me your view on best practice when it comes to thinking, Okay, I've got a target. And I've got a really good client, we've been working for a while together, they're really happy with where we've got to what we're doing. Where do you see the growth opportunities.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>James &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Get it right first time. So no matter what deliver on whatever you promised, you deliver on your promise you earned the right to do something else, if you don't deliver on your promise, and you don't have the right to something else. When we started we call it expand before you land because of the complexities in onboarding new clients. And because we started sharing the vision of what we were doing across an organisation when you worked with a big company, you can do that, you know, there are there are multiple entities and multiple different people. But in what I do, they all have pretty much the same core challenges. And the quicker you solve those challenges, the quicker they get value. So you start thinking what I should be doing this, I should be telling them about this, you know, that should be going to the next person because it's in their interest. And then you start realising through the whole thing. That if I go if I my company, I do a project and I save my company 10 million quid or something. It's good for my career, as well. It's in my personal interest to do this. Then I put up my CV and then I accelerate my career. And then you start realising that you this is the bit you can't fake, which is if you really believe in what you're doing, then the next thing is, is kind of like your duty to try and help the people that you're working with to be more successful. And they will make their company more successful. In doing so their careers will be more successful. Some of the people I've worked with initially, and now moved on to much bigger, better things off the back of it, which is great, because that's my ultimate goal. Because if they've helped me become successful, and I've helped them to become successful, if I recommended you a project and it fails, then it goes completely the other way. And that's, so that's part of&nbsp; the truth and on itself you have and the project you're doing. And you already know that if you know what you're doing. So how do you expand from what you're doing? Get it right, have the confidence for the people that you work with is how you it's gonna work. And again, that's what I do. I have a chap that works with me, he's incredibly skilled, incredibly knowledgeable, he keeps me in check, which is, I say to him, will this work. And if he says, yes, then we know it work. And he's got that level of credibility, if it does, and we'll deliver against it. And if I see any point of failure through that process, then I've got to be on it quick. And that's the internal cadence that we manage as well, and you get it right, and then you expand successfully. And then you'll see that renewals bigger, which means that it is a much bigger system greater risk. No, it shouldn't be a greater risk, you've done the right things, the client sees the value, and they will continue. And they want to do more Oh, by the way, that person you sold to has now gone to that other company, they've now recommended us as well. If you look at the growth rate of my my company, in the last 10 years, we're went from nothing in a shed in York, was where the technology platform was written by a chap that I've known for 20 years. And a guy that I work with, when I first ever started an ex New Zealand SAS captain who, who became, you know, started this company, again, we're now listed on the US stock exchange, I forget our latest valuation, but it must be well over eight, 9 billion as well. So I was employee number 243. In six years, we're now over 2002 and a half 3000 and the growth, the hyper growth that we go through. And of course, when you grow, you're more successful, the risks are even greater, because you could lose focus. Because you could lose the reason why you became successful in the first place. The reason became successful first place is because you met the client's expectations. And they recommended you. And they recommended you internally and they recommend you externally. And they brought you with them on their career. And when they started with another company, they brought you with them and sometimes the company, but when I see they come to me, they reach out to me, James, I'm now at this place, can you come and have a conversation? Yeah, love to now I don't look after that client, quite often, they may somebody else successful. But as we all should be shareholders in our companies, either materially or, you know, the fact that we're employed by them as well, it's our duty to then support that growth continually as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>That's a very, very inspiring story. I mean, what you've also said is that you're continually solving challenges for clients coming up with solutions, making sure that they work, and then presenting them. So it sounds like you're continually adding value. The other thing I want to ask you is given that you're given the your company's grown so fast, and so phenomenally well, how do you make sure during that hyper growth, that you do make sure that you get the right people on in your team, that they're all following the same lead, as you've just explained about making sure the ethics and values are aligned? I mean, how do you make sure that that happens? You referred to it earlier on actually, with internal, you're doing internal training to make sure that each level is..</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>James &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, enablement, we call it and you know that again, and we do it with a buddy system as well, too, we buddy people up with other people, so they can learn from them as well. But I think either either it's very difficult, because the culture of the company you think will be is set really up for us in the US that's where the values are. And quite often sales has a very different culture from the rest of the company. So you rely on your management structure to reflect that as well. And manage downwards to support that. So all I can do is protect my little franchise, my little ecosystem, and the communication between my company and the clients that I've introduced into my company. And that makes a big difference it becomes quite personal when you do that. So the evolution of account management, from business development to account management, so it's different when you inherit something because it's an opportunity to be better than the person before, but it's also an opportunity to be not as good as the person before with me is that thing well, James has been with us Six years, he knows us, it'd become more of a challenge when somebody else comes in because, you know, they'll lose a little bit of the feeling, they can just pick up the phones and know instantly what's going on. So, I can only do that. And, you know, there will always be points where somebody will come in. And they will have their own view because of how they worked previously and a different company, and it will build change. I talked earlier about the external brand that's valuable to me, my previous company will buy the internal brand. And some people that come from very big companies coming with their internal, you got to build your internal brand. Focus on your internal brand, that's where you manage outwards, not managing downwards, I try and make sure that I'm supporting downwards, because if they're doing what they should be doing, then it's a good reflection on me as well. And that's that, fundamentally, of how I see any level of account management. But I've got people who say they work for me, they work with me, and they very much do, because they have different reporting lines as well. But culturally, as a company grows, you're not going to be able to do it. Unfortunately, you know, as your best will in the world to get the right people in that have the same values as you. And you'll see that people have been there for a long time will move on, and they will keep searching for what they have previously. And they'll find it because you know, that's why they're successful. And companies will become too big to fail as well. But as long as I'm here longer than doing this, then I'll continue to try and reflect the values that I bought into when I joined my company with the clients that I work with. And it seems to be working, which is great. And that's the important thing for me. And for the rest of the company. You know, again, I'm very lucky that a lot of people that work with me and around me have been with on the journey for a long time as well. We try and make people more vested in the company wide success through through shares, and stock as well get them reflective on that, I think is a nice to have, you know, I'm very much focused on what my target is, and, and the customer success, everything else is a nice to have. And then you just sort of hope for the best to be hoest with you there's no way to manage it at my level. If I was running the company, I could manage it. But that guy's in the US and you know, luckily, in the company I work with, I get a very strong sense of passion and value enthusiasm from that individual. So I have a huge amount of respect from him, he is walk on his way to be earn the respect, not expect the respect from his job title, but earn the respect. And I'm very lucky to spend a lot of time with him. And I have direct access to him to help support me as well to be successful. And I hope that he also and people also in our both the leadership team, see the sense of enjoyment that the people that work with me get from working on these accounts. And it was hard to start with, you know, when you when you start with nothing's happening. And you know, you, you calling everybody and everyone said no interested. But then it works, are you aware that this guy has managed to do that, you know, X, Y and Z? Oh, that's interesting. Tell me more about it. And I'll make you successful with that as well. And quite often through your career, you will not find companies that have products to sell, which are as good as some. I'm very lucky with that one, our goal at the moment is not to be the best at what we done. And, and you know, and again, it all came back to meet expectations that match the client's goals and values and continually display them and we call it customer first. As long as we show customer first and then I'll still be here.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think that's nice to have, you know, a mantra or a saying that everyone, you know, can</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>James &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I'm probably an idealist Jenny, I'm probably completely delusional and an idealist.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Not at all? No. Do you know what it's it kind of what it says to me is that you're happy doing what you're doing. And I think with all of the years of experience experience I've had working with different account managers, it really comes down to that it comes down to culture, you said it starts from the top and it spreads down. So if someone at the top has that genuine, you know, authentic, passion, energy, and, you know, really wants everyone to succeed and sets people up for success, it really does reflect down throughout the organisation. I think what happens negatively is when you don't have the right leadership in place, because that very, very quickly spreads like wildfire. And that's where you get cultures that, you know, play the blame game and, and it's just destructive. So I think everything that you said is really, really key really this, you know, culture. the buddy system was a great tip as well, I think, particularly while we're all working remotely where we don't have that physical interaction with with each other. How do you make sure that the younger more so that the new people coming through are picking up those values? Are there any other tips, particularly around you know, the situation with how we're working remotely? Is there anything that you could share that might be valuable for agencies that are working remotely that in terms of making sure the account management team are performing at the highest level possible?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>James &nbsp;</strong></div><div>That's a good question actually. Because the way we're working now, I know I've referenced the US a few times, but the way we're working is how the US works. It's how a lot of Central Europe works as well where physically you can't be in the same room, we sort of blessed in the UK, the fact that you can pretty much travel anywhere within a day easily to get to meet.. And the old view of gotta shake someone's hand, they're looking in the eye, no one makes eye contact anymore. This way, we're all looking looking at ourselves, and we're looking away from the camera, that becomes very difficult, I think increases the value on written communication and clarity and thinking, what would you want to receive? And how would you want to read it? Because I get a lot of, my junk mail box has gone through the roof, with material I'm receiving as well, what a waste of someone's time to do that. And what is the best way they can reach out to me, and sometimes it's been a little bit more creative. So if you're in the creative industry, you know how you do that first, every communication has to be reflective of your product, and what you're selling. So it has to be high quality has to be very tailored and very customised for those individuals as well. I think I read somewhere that 98% of cold emails are failing this year. So I my general advice is be more creative in how you find somebody and set up a first conversation, keep them short, keep them to the point. No-one's looking for a buddy, no one's looking for a drinking partner at the moment, that kind of stuff. And that's not a relationship. That's the 90s view. And there are a lot of salespeople that still have a very 90s view of it. And again, you know I worked with people at Penguin Random House a few years back, and you know, they still have a sales team that love to go out for whiskey and do that kind of stuff, you know that but that's a very different way of working, might need to edit that bit out, actually, Jenny? I think that I think what you're always thinking of is, you know, if I'm going to be in a conversation with somebody going to be trying to define the relationship, then every single point of communication, whether or not you're using LinkedIn, which I still think it's incredibly, incredibly valuable tool, but it's become a bit more of a social media tool, which has become a real issue for me. So I don't do InMails, I you know, if I reach out, try and connect to somebody, it's because I know somebody else. And you know, and and, and I've established my external brand off the back of that. Which means that, you know, I can engage with somebody within my industry, and help support them. So I look at my technology partnerships, I look at my my global systems integrated partnerships, as well as we work with and how we can support them and think, can I get you to help support me in what I'm doing as well? I mean, I don't know about the creative industry about how what that supportive structure is.But really, the first point should be in every company we don't do this enough, is to go around the people in your own team, who do you know, where are you looking for? Who can I talk to? That's the easiest one, you know, the next one is understanding people's careers I call it career mapping, which is where they've been before, where they're going, you know, how can I find out about them? And do they know, so So, and you start putting that seven degrees together. And then ultimately, everybody knows everyone, and it all comes down to that thing. Everybody knows everyone, everybody knows everything. Everybody knows when you're not reflecting who you should be, your behaviour is not conductive to proper business. And we get rid of people pretty quick. Don't be one of those people, be one of the people, that means that I want to reach out to you or want to help you. And finally, the only other thing I said that helped me through my whole career, Never be afraid. And the first thing you say is can you help me? I need your help. As soon as you say that people start listening, if you put in an email, I'll owe you one, I wonder if you'll give me a hand? And I need your help? Can you help me do that? It takes somebody less than 10 seconds to respond. So yeah, go and talk to that person. And then you go, so Never be afraid to make that may then ask because you know what they're doing in the US and the US are about a year ahead of us. Because they take chances because they go ahead for projects. And and then what we normally say is however the US is doing, we will be there 12 months later, and it happens, it always happens. But we need to encourage people to make changes quicker. And regarding the way of working on getting everyone settled into I think everyone used to it when the schools go back, I think people are quite happy not to not to have the choice to get back into the office. And certainly my clients are saying that no more than 30% of workforce will be in the office any one time. So it will change it. You know, when you go into the city, you'll be sitting with somebody and they want to make their way into have that meeting, you got to think well, what am I doing? Why am I doing this meeting? Is it a value? If I'm not doing it, don't worry about it, send them a little birthday card or something Happy birthday, but everything you do is very much I'm having this meeting. This is a value to you. And then I'm going to ask something that's valuable to me.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think face to face is going to come as a bit of a premium, isn't it moving forward? There's a few things that you said and I'm glad that you brought up LinkedIn and your personal brand because I don't think I see enough creative agency account managers on LinkedIn in an either engaging with their current clients online if their clients are active. But also just sharing things that they're doing, updating their profile, so it looks more creative and more engaging. I think that's a really easy fix, and it doesn't cost you know, doesn't take very much time. And also not to mention being creative in how they reach out to people, I think you made a really good point about the emails or 98% of emails falling flat. Lucy Snell I interviewed her on the podcast, and she is she works for the creative industry. And she's very, very good at helping agencies prospect for new business. And what she was saying she was saying similar thing about emails and cold emails, and how, you know, rather than send a cold email, send a personalised video message that looks as if you put some effort in and looks as if you've really done your research and you've worked out who you're talking to, and why what you're saying is going to be valuable. So that was the point I was gonna make.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>James &nbsp;</strong></div><div>My only other response to that is&nbsp; my email server will immediately spam that out? With a video attachment? LinkedIn might be ok, I've never sent a video on LinkedIn. &nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>This is the new messaging function that you'd have to get. This has been amazing. I'm just very conscious of your time. James, I, have you got any, perhaps parting words of wisdom or tips for someone who's listening to this thinking? I really want to get into account management. You know, what do you think it's important for me to do or know.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>James &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think, well, everything that I do, it works for me may not work for anybody else. But I think the thing I've always really impressed upon is that it's continually learning so and learning, you can make sort of make a choice from a whole load of stuff that you pick up from, don't just focus within your own industry, or whatever your own selling focus on everything. Because the founding principles are exactly the same. What works for somebody may not work for you don't do it, don't be told you need to do something, because it's a way of working. And there are a lot of sales methodologies to do, this is the important thing to slice up. And the best thing about doing all those sales training I've been on, is I take elements of them, that will work for me. And then I try and apply them as best I can, because they helped me they have value to what I'm doing. And it helps get over time management's that really difficult thing to manage as well. So I use these things to complement. And ultimately, in helping myself get organised, it means that I can be quicker to react to what the clients will require that particular time. So anybody who wants to get into account management, if I want to do that I want you to be if you're looking back at how I've been a film director, or guitarist in a band, so you know, anyone that says they're passionate about doing this, they're lying. They're passionate about Star Wars, they're passionate about football, they're, you know, they're passionate, they enjoy doing what they do. This role has enabled me to fulfil what I wanted outside of work. It so I work to live. And, and you know what, and luckily, I enjoy meeting new people. I enjoy meeting people for the first time and I enjoy learning about what they're doing. I found it credibly fascinating learning about what companies do. So if you want to learn not only about how to sell and how to support customers, about what companies do incredible tidbits about from my perspective about how companies report customer details, about where we going in technology, I do, what the future is going to be as well. I'm very lucky that what I do has helped me enable that interest and passion and enthusiasm of mine. And I did a history degree. So my goal was originally to bring the handwritten work back into technology sales, I failed miserably and they told me I would do that. The team at Pareto told me, I would fail miserably when I was 21 years old doing that. I don't think I ever I've ever written anything by hand. But my principles, well, I wanted to bring something a bit more personal to her. And I think that if you want to get into it, where you enjoy those aspects of it, of something new every day of something, you know, it's hard. It's it's hard, there's a hell of a lot of legwork to get there. But when you've managed to get there, you can transform everything. And again, Jenny, you know, what's going around me at the moment. So if I can support my family of the back of it, there's nothing more important than that.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Brilliant, that's a lovely note to finish on. Thank you so much, James. I really appreciate it. You provided so much value, so many tips. And I'm going to pull out some of these key learnings for us to take away to the creative industry. So thank you so much for joining me.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>James &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And the best thing about working from home is I can just stress like this and get away with it. So no one cares anymore.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>No, that's brilliant. Thank you so much, James.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2021 11:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/28ky5y58.mp3" length="58880961" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/65965370-6f83-11eb-868b-1567c5e264b0/659657c0-6f83-11eb-a6a1-1f2d17e89251.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2943</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>James Aldrich is a major account manager with over twenty years experience in both business development and account management in the software industry.

James's sector speciality is telecommunications and I invited him to share his experience to see similarities and differences between the account management role in the creative industry and software industry.

Despite starting his career wanting to be a film director or a guitarist in a band, he found himself in account management which has not only opened up many career opportunities but has also allowed him to fulfil his ambitions outside of work.

In this brilliant chat, James shares his thoughts on:

* How your own network is one of the most important aspects of your role and how it can bring value to your clients, your company and to your own career
* Why it's important to choose a company to work for that aligns with your personal values
* How and when to ask for referrals
* Why business development and account management are similar roles
* How sharing insight into how other industries work can bring value to your clients
* How 'buddy systems' enable junior account team members to get up to speed quickly 
* Why taking a 'customer first' approach to everything you do leads to success
* The importance of ensuring every client communication and touchpoint reflects your company values
* Why you should learn from how other industries operate
* Why you should always be curious and look ahead to what's changing in your industry and your client's industries

I really enjoyed this chat and I hope you come away with some reminders and inspiration for other things you could be doing in your career or role that will be valuable to you, your client and your agency.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>James Aldrich is a major account manager with over twenty years experience in both business development and account management in the software industry.

James's sector speciality is telecommunications and I invited him to share his experience to see similarities and differences between the account management role in the creative industry and software industry.

Despite starting his career wanting to be a film director or a guitarist in a band, he found himself in account management which has not only opened up many career opportunities but has also allowed him to fulfil his ambitions outside of work.

In this brilliant chat, James shares his thoughts on:

* How your own network is one of the most important aspects of your role and how it can bring value to your clients, your company and to your own career
* Why it's important to choose a company to work for that aligns with your personal values
* How and when to ask for referrals
* Why business development and account management are similar roles
* How sharing insight into how other industries work can bring value to your clients
* How 'buddy systems' enable junior account team members to get up to speed quickly 
* Why taking a 'customer first' approach to everything you do leads to success
* The importance of ensuring every client communication and touchpoint reflects your company values
* Why you should learn from how other industries operate
* Why you should always be curious and look ahead to what's changing in your industry and your client's industries

I really enjoyed this chat and I hope you come away with some reminders and inspiration for other things you could be doing in your career or role that will be valuable to you, your client and your agency.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to present new ideas with behavioural science in mind</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/68r6k9v8</link>
      <itunes:title>How to present new ideas with behavioural science in mind</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>17</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">805vzq51</guid>
      <description>In this episode I reflect on some recent research on how status quo bias affects a client's decision making process and why that's important for us to know when presenting new ideas.

In this episode we dive into why when presenting new ideas to our clients that require them to make a big change, it's useful to understand the psychology of why they might be reluctant to.

By knowing this we're then able to present the ideas with this in mind and provide the information that they require to make their decision.

I hope you enjoy this episode and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this topic.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Transcript:<br><br></div><div><br></div><div>So today's episode is a solo episode. And I want to talk to you about presenting new ideas to your clients with behavioural science in mind. Now, what I'm going to be talking about is the idea that when you present new ideas to a client, that for them represents a change in what they're doing already, it's useful for us to put ourselves in the shoes of the client. So why is that important? Well, our clients are often working for companies. So they are measured on their performance and the decisions that they make. So if we are presenting an idea, which might seem a bit of a bold idea, so maybe it's a new campaign concept, or perhaps a new content marketing strategy, or even a new channel that we're proposing, like doing some kind of app, this for the client represents a change. And it's therefore useful to understand the psychology of making a decision to change so that we can present our ideas accordingly. Now, the background to this is twofold. One, I am really studying for writing a book, and I'm doing lots of research. And I've got quite deep into behavioural economics, which I'm loving. And secondly, I'm reading some research that came out in December 2020. So behavioural economics is the study of psychology, if you're not familiar with it, as it relates to how we make economic decisions, and they use experiments to develop theories about how we make those decisions. And for many of you listening, you'll be very familiar with Rory Sutherland, who is the vice chairman of Ogilvy, and is probably the most well known person to have popularised this field of study in the advertising industry. I'm also, as I said, reading some research that came out in December 2020, conducted by a company called Corporate Visions, and it was provided in a book called The Expansion Sale by Eric Peterson and Tim Riesterer, and basically a range of biases have been identified in behavioural science and economics as a result of the way people think and feel. And one of those biases that I want to talk about today is called status quo bias. And no, it's not the band, if anyone's that old, they remember like me, the very popular band, but it means that people prefer essentially things to stay the same, even if staying the same isn't the best decision. So if we are thinking about our clients, and we're presenting new ideas to the client, that might mean that they need to make a change of what they're doing currently. So it's useful to address these different points. So a simple example, if you shop around for car insurance, for example, you'll probably get a better deal but not everybody shops around, which would be the rational thing to do. So why does that happen? According to some research, and the research psychologist, Christopher Anderson, in his paper, The Psychology of Doing Nothing, there are four main causes of status quo bias. The first one is called 'preference stability'. And this essentially means that people naturally dislike uncertainty. So a previous decision they made becomes their preference. And if someone tries to challenge that decision, by bringing them some new information to the contrary, they want to quickly resolve that insecurity and uncertainty to default to their original preference. Second thing about status quo bias is anticipated regret and blame. So people think, what if it goes wrong? Will they regret it? And will they be blamed. And if you think about our clients for a moment, their career success could be riding on this big decision they make to either go with an idea that you present or not, or their colleagues might ridicule them or point the finger. So you can see why making that decision to change could be affected by this element of status quo bias, the anticipated regret and blame. The third thing is the perceived cost of change. So people naturally think that if you're presenting an idea to them, that that's going to be costly. And if they stay the same and do nothing, it's not going to cost them anything. And we're going to go through these and see how you can overcome each one. The fourth one is selection difficulty. And what that means is that we usually are presented with an overwhelming amount of information to make a decision. And the decision making part of the brain is just simple. And it needs a clear contrast between what you're doing now, and what that change promises to do. So that element also needs to be addressed when you're thinking about presenting new ideas to the client. So for our existing clients, there are a number of things that we need to make sure that we do during that presentation of this new idea to allay their fears and to make them feel comfortable about making the decision to change. And similarly, if we are prospecting for new business and talking to completely new potential clients, we want to be disrupting their status quo to challenge what they're currently doing. And maybe we are challenging what they're doing with a current agency. So we have to disrupt their thinking. So it has two consequences, the status quo bias. Because for our existing clients, we are their status quo bias, we are their choice of agency.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>So let's go back to how we present an idea to a client that's already a client of ours so that we are not disrupting their status quo of decision to stay with us. But we are disrupting the status quo with what they are doing in their marketing capacity. So let's think about those four things. Again, the first one was preference stability, people don't like to make change, because uncertainty is uncomfortable. So what we can do during our presentation of a new idea is to first of all reinforce why they chose us by showing them the results that they've got from us so far, and some progress on the goals that they are making as a result of the work they're currently doing with us. And that should allay their preference to believe that just confirms their preference stability, for choosing us, but then we need to destabilise slightly what they're currently doing in their, in their marketing activities to consider making a change to think about our new idea. So we need to destabilise their their current thinking but without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. And the idea is so different, that they might think, oh, we might need to get a few more agencies around to help us make that decision. So we need to present evolving trends that will be affecting our clients and what they're already doing to meet their current goals. And by doing those two things, we are anchoring the client in their decision to choose us.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>The second thing is anticipated regret and blame. So if we think that the client is going to regret making the decision to change, we need to allay their fears early in our presentation. So we can provide evidence of success through the work that we've done with other clients. So we can show them case studies of similar clients who have made a decision to change to do a project with us. And we can show case studies of it being successful.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>And then the third element was perceived cost of change. And as we said, we as human beings, we think that if we make a change, it's going to cost us money. But the cost of doing nothing can sometimes be more of a loss to us, because we might be losing out on an opportunity. So we need to, during our presentation, show the cost that's been invested so far, to create the momentum we've already created with the work that we're doing so far, but also highlight the potential loss of not making that change. And I'm going to give you an example in a minute so that the theory kind of makes makes sense.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></div><div>And then fourth element was the selection difficulty. So how can we show our clients or simplify the client's decision to make this change? Well, simply we can show them what the pathway looks like if they continue to not take any action to make the change or to capitalise on this opportunity that we're presenting to them with this new idea. And similarly, what happens on the pathway, if they do make the change, what's the upside, so really being clear about what the selection could look like either way. And just to put an example around this, if we go back to the beginning of preference stability, let's suppose that we are a content marketing agency, and one of our clients has done ad hoc projects with us so far, but we want to propose to that client that they do a whole content marketing strategy with us and a key messaging workshop so that we can really understand the bigger picture and bring all of those elements together. We need to, in our presentation, counteract four of those elements of status quo bias to persuade the client, why this might be a good idea for them.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>So the first element as we remember is preference stability. The presentation has to start by reflecting on all of the ad hoc work that we've done so far in our capacity as copywriters because they've done ad hoc projects with us so we can show what projects we've successfully completed to date, perhaps the metrics that we've been able to achieve maybe it's increased reach or percentage engagement from the work that we've done, or maybe we've been driving attendance to an event through the pieces, the copywriting pieces that we've been doing so though that is delaying their fears reinforcing their choice of us.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Secondly, if we want to help them understand that change is needed, then we can present the facts of these evolving trends. So we could say that according to the Content Marketing Institute, for example, 86% of other marketers who revised their content marketing strategy, expect the adjustments to stay in effect for the foreseeable future, meaning that the majority of other marketers are actually revising their content marketing strategy, and therefore, it would be a good idea for us to do the same. Similarly, you can throw some statistics out there in terms of the new platforms that people are using. And again, citing the report, you could say 66% of B2B marketers, like you said that LinkedIn was the best social platform for generating best overall results. And as we know, from the work that we've done with you, so far, LinkedIn hasn't been a key focus for us. But we know that it's been hugely successful for many others. So we think that it's worth us, looking at your entire content marketing strategy, and how we might incorporate LinkedIn, as a social media platform, in that overall strategic approach. And then perhaps we can talk about the use of Instagram for paid social, for example, and the rise in how other marketers are currently jumping on that trend. So these are all evolving trends that are in our ballpark, they're our, our area of expertise, they build on the ideas that we're already working with the client on. And so therefore, we are asking them to think differently about what they're currently doing. The second element is an anticipated regret and blame and we certainly don't want our idea to be regretted. The way to counteract that for this example that we're using at the moment is to remind them, first of all, for all the time and resources that we've spent so far developing the momentum and show the case studies of other clients who are also revising their strategy and the success that they are having.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>And then thirdly, the perceived cost of change. So we need to make sure that we highlight that if the client doesn't change, there is a potential downside of not changing. And as we know, from Daniel Kahneman's research, he won a Nobel Prize for his work in this area. And he found that people are twice as likely to make a change as a result of a loss, a potential loss, rather than a gain. So we do need to highlight if we don't change and conduct this new, you know, review of the content marketing strategy, then, if we stay the same, it could be damaging if we show that the impact on brand reputation as a result of not updating the messages that, you know, have needed to be changed in light of, first of all the research, but also maybe current events, like the pandemic and how consumer behaviour is changed, then, you know, it could be detrimental to our brand. So that's another example of how we can show them the cost of doing nothing.&nbsp;</div><div><strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></div><div>And then finally, selection difficulty. And this is where we can clearly show them examples of what other brands are doing currently, perhaps, if they don't review their content marketing strategy, and continue with messaging that was relevant last year, for example, and the backlash that they can have for their brand from their customers. And on the upside. If they do revise their content marketing strategy, we could show examples of how that really is conducive to consumer brand, consumer sentiment and how successful other brands have been.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>&nbsp;</strong></div><div>So I really hope that that has given you some food for thought about presenting new ideas to your clients. And just to recap, those four elements of this status quo bias are preference stability, anticipated regret and blame, perceived cost of the change and selection difficulty. So if we are thinking about presenting ideas that help our clients change, then we need to be aware of how their current thinking is around making changes.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>If you've enjoyed this episode, this is just one part of a nine part process that we go through at the Account accelerator. So this one part is included in the section of my Account Accelerator training programme, all about growing existing business and how we can make sure that we go from unpredictable project revenue to more predictable account growth by making sure that we have a client centric approach to account growth, and this is one small element of what we go into a lot more depth on and other elements of psychology that help us in the way that we manage clients.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>So if it sounds intriguing to you, and you'd like to know more, I'm running my next Account Accelerator training programme on the 15th of April 2021. So please let me know if you're interested in joining that one at Jenny Plant on LinkedIn, or jenny@account managementskills.com. Until the next time.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2021 09:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/68xm7nkw.mp3" length="18026496" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/a8059da0-6c8a-11eb-a9ff-292c598e1bc0/a8059ef0-6c8a-11eb-becd-ed613daa2aad.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>901</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode I reflect on some recent research on how status quo bias affects a client's decision making process and why that's important for us to know when presenting new ideas.

In this episode we dive into why when presenting new ideas to our clients that require them to make a big change, it's useful to understand the psychology of why they might be reluctant to.

By knowing this we're then able to present the ideas with this in mind and provide the information that they require to make their decision.

I hope you enjoy this episode and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this topic.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>In this episode I reflect on some recent research on how status quo bias affects a client's decision making process and why that's important for us to know when presenting new ideas.

In this episode we dive into why when presenting new ideas to our clients that require them to make a big change, it's useful to understand the psychology of why they might be reluctant to.

By knowing this we're then able to present the ideas with this in mind and provide the information that they require to make their decision.

I hope you enjoy this episode and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this topic.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to be a strategic account manager in the creative industry, with Andy Young &amp; Laura Cohen</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/v8wvl9pn</link>
      <itunes:title>How to be a strategic account manager in the creative industry, with Andy Young &amp; Laura Cohen</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>16</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">80xz8r20</guid>
      <description>Andy Young and Laura Cohen are both strategic account managers for Skeleton Productions, a full service agency specialising in video production.

In this chat, they share some brilliant tips and ideas for account managers who want to enhance their account management skills.

They share:

* Why shifting from being a good relationship builder to taking more of a 'challenger' approach with your clients works
* How to build trust with your client so they take risks to do bigger and bolder projects
* Why keeping your finger on the pulse with future trends in your specialism is key to ensuring your clients see you as an advisor rather than order taker
* What a pre-flight questionnaire is an how to use one
* Why you shouldn't be scared of the word "strategy"
* Tips for how they've kept decision makers engaged throughout projects and how to get things back on track if the project goes awry

I hope you come away with lots of ideas to implement in your role.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Transcript:<br><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Welcome to the Creative Agency Account Manager podcast with me, Jenny Plant,from Account Management Skills training. I'm on a mission to help those in agency client service, keep and grow the existing client relationships, so their agency business can thrive. Welcome to Episode 16. This episode is with Andy Young and Laura Cohen. They're both strategic account managers for Skeleton productions and Skeleton is a full service agency specialising in video production. In this chat, they share some brilliant tips and ideas for you if you're an account manager, and you want to enhance your account management skills, and be seen as more consultative with your clients. So they're going to share why shifting from being a good relationship builder to taking more of a challenger approach with your clients works, how to build trust with your clients, so they take risks and do bigger and bolder projects with you, why keeping your finger on the pulse with future trends happening in your specialism is key to ensuring your clients see you as an advisor, rather than an order taker. What a pre flight questionnaire is and how to use one, and why you shouldn't be scared of the word strategy. They're going to share tips on how they've kept decision makers engaged throughout projects, and how to get things back on track if the project goes awry, and so much more and so many more valuable tips and ideas for you. So I really hope that you come away with some value from this episode, grab a pen, take some notes, because they really don't stop with all of the brilliant ideas. Enjoy. So Andy and Laura, they are strategic account managers from Skeleton productions. And I'm really thrilled to have them on the show because from my side, I think they're going to share some really interesting insight into what it's like to be a strategic account manager. So Andy, do you mind if I start with you? Can you just spend a couple of minutes talking about your role, what you do and how you found yourself in account management?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Andy &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, thanks for having us on, by the way, Jenny. Yeah, so me personally, I'm strategic account manager at skeleton, we work with our clients to offer top level strategic advice for their video content. Sometimes we branch out a little bit further than that. But primarily, it's helping them achieve remarkable things with video. And I kind of came into Skeleton through another agency that was full service. But one of the things that I really, really enjoyed about working there was video, so I kind of made the move to skeleton purely because of that. But before that slightly different world, I used to work in craft beer. So I used to work for Brewdog. And then I ended up working for a smaller company after that important beers from America and distributing in the UK in Europe. So it was quite a bit of a shift. But the sales and the marketing side that I learned while working in craft beer really, really helped me take that first step into agency account management. And then from there, I've just kind of grown really.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Really amazing. Thank you very, very interesting and diverse background. And I'm glad you said that the brewdog experience helped you in your current role, I think, and what specifically I'm here just before I move on to Laura, what specifically do you think was the key thing that helps you having worked in another industry and another type of organisation?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Andy &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think sometimes it lends some like transferable skills. I think when I worked at Brooks, I was customer facing as well, it does, I guess, really, really helped you with your confidence with that. And then you also learn how bigger companies work and grow quality work there, it was quite a quite an expansive growth. So I think you'll learn about what it takes for a company to grow. And that's essentially what we're trying to do with our clients. We're trying to help grow a part of their business, grow their offering, grow their team, we're trying to grow something. And I think I learned a lot about that by working at Brewdog.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>That's a really interesting and key thing, though, that you just said was like the business you understood the business outcomes and from a client's business perspective, because I think from my side meeting different agency account managers, that's the shift you need to make, isn't it to bring the most value. So that's really interesting. Thank you for sharing. Laura, welcome. Can you spend a couple of minutes talking about your background?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, certainly, once again, thanks for inviting us on today. It's really, really nice to be invited. So I am a strategic accountant manager at Skeleton I look after about 10 of the agency's accounts, and they range from B2B to B2C clients and all varying sizes from SMEs to global organisations. skeleton is very different to what I've done before. It's very niche. So we're a full service agency that specialises in just video and editing motion related really. And we offer video strategy right through to delivering the content and distribution. And that's a mix of 2D, 3D animation, and really using the app storytelling to create compelling stories that engage and delight our customer audiences that ultimately drive results, but they're also very niche and it's very focused just on video and motion which is different to my backgrounds previously. So previously, I've worked in full service agencies in the 20 years that I've been working within marketing, I started off as an account executive from a trafficker, all the way around out to an account director level and also working in marketing as well. So I have worked on the client side too so it's very different in that we are very focused in terms of the you know, when we should just we do video and we do motion. But it has allowed me to draw on those experiences of where I've been in marketing before, for instance, and been a client myself understanding of what's important to the client, and what's also important to the agency. And I felt, I feel like that really helps kind of, you know, shape your brief, understand what the client's business objectives are, and not just say, from the agency points of view. In terms of the other areas that I've worked with full service, I think it just helps to have that knowledge, just to know where else you can possibly help the client. So although we specialise in video, it's not to say that we can't say actually, you know, you really need to do some work with your SEO, well, you really need to think about this. And then we put them together with some of the connections. So kind of drawing all that experience to helps.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think that's what I love having worked with both of you, I could see that you both have a strategic mindset, as your title kind of suggests, where you could add different value to the client in lots of different areas. So just what do you think is the key benefit if you've got an agency listening that's deciding to specialise in maybe one specific offering like you have? What do you think are some of the benefits to an agency to really focus in and specialise in one area?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think one of the benefits of the agency is that we are absolutely experts in that field. So we will know all of the latest trends, we will know everything there is to do from strategy, right for delivery, right through to what the latest things are happening and creative. This is what we do day in, day out. And it becomes second nature. And second nature so much so that, you know, we forget this, sometimes when we tell this to our own clients, you know, we have to sort of spell that process out because we do do it every day. Whereas other agencies video is an add on, it's a bolt on, it's just another surface. But we do is this is what we do every single day. And we and we do it because we love it.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>That's brilliant. Andy, I remember a few months ago working with you, you were looking at trends that were happening in the market for some of your clients weren't you in terms of what was happening, future focus, and I've seen a lot of your posts on LinkedIn, which, again, is a very sort of impressive action, for me to see through from the account management community, actually positioning yourself as sort of leading in that field.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Andy &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, and the people that you're working with, you've got to think, as I said, like video is very, very niche. And so it's a very, very small part. But it is a rabbit hole when you start learning about it. And you're starting to try and be forward thinking and I think it's a great position that you can be in to do that to then lead your client, they're not coming to you saying can you do XYZ, you're saying to them, Look, I've spotted that this is happening, your competitors haven't done that yet, I think you should be doing it. Because that feeds into your objectives as a business, you want to be thought leaders, you want to be the best person in this industry. So we want to help position you like that we've got several clients that are like that they have got very, very strong competition, there's very, very little differentiation. And so by us, like focusing on those little wins that we can kind of help them with. And as Laura said, it's stuff we do day in day out. And it's almost very, very normal for us. But it's not for a lot of people I could say video is a very, very small part of their marketing mix. But it's very powerful as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Laura, what do you think, above and beyond, you know, looking at future trends? What other things, and bringing them to your clients, what other things do you think are valuable about the account management role?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think it's being really the account management role in terms of adding value to account management, is that what you mean, in terms of how we add that value? I think one of the values that strategic account manager brings to the client is that we really get to know our clients, both in a professional sense, but also in a personal sense. And having that greater understanding and in depth understanding of your clients objectives, their challenges, it allows you to understand the brief and to interpretate, the brief for the greater team, like the devil is always in the detail and as a strategic account manager and account manager, if you don't have the answers for the creative team, you know that we're never going to deliver a brief that is that is the creator that is on brief. And we almost have to act as if we are almost kind of creative directors in some sense as well, we have to have the answers. So you have to know your client inside and out, you have to make sure that the brief is right. And you have to make sure you're adding that value in you're asking those questions get to know your client well enough so that the outcome of that brief is exactly what they're expecting. And it gets the results really, I think there's nothing worse than not having the answers for a creative team as a strategic account manager.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, it almost puts the personal pressure on you internally in the agency, doesn't it to kind of come up with the goods, but also forces you to ask the right questions in the briefing session with the client. Yeah, and what's your experience been with him?briefs in general. I mean, I suppose we've all been guilty of doing a bad brief. And we're at some point in our career, I don't know about you, but I'm recalling a really bad moment in my career, when I walked into the creative department gave the brief, she read it, and then she just threw it across the room. I had to go out of the room with the tail between the legs.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, I had that in mind. One of my is the second agency I worked in when I moved to Nottingham, and my creative director there, he was ruthless. And he would literally throw them back at me when I mean, one after the other. But that was great learning. It was great learning to know, you know, what goes in is what comes out. And you have to ask all those questions. And you have to challenge the brief, because actually, sometimes the client, that isn't actually what they need, it doesn't meet the objective. So actually, so I and I have that quite a lot with my clients in that I have to challenge the brief. And they appreciate that because it shows that we're listening, it shows that we're listening, and it shows that we're using our expertise, and they trust us. And that often then leads to more work, because actually, we now need to do another video that answers another brief because we've been trying to put too much into one video, which ultimately dilutes the message completely.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I love that you brought that point up, Laura, because you're right, you're demonstrating your understanding by being critical, like critical thinking, I think with the client shows how senior you are. Because that's the only way that then they they trust you if you are giving them your genuine advice. I mean, the subject recently of consultancy, and us becoming consultants, is so rife at the moment everyone's talking about, and a lot of account managers is changing their title to consultant. So I think that's a really key point. Similarly, there's a study by Gartner, actually, that was done at the end of 2019, all about why account managers aren't growing their existing accounts. And one of the things that it concluded was that there was this absence of having future focused business conversations with their clients, which means that we are painting a picture of our vision for the future business. But also we've got a critical perspective. So I think creating almost that tension in the relationship is part and parcel of becoming more senior as an account manager. What what are your thoughts on this Andy?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Andy &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Well, I was used to be a when you think of account managers on time you think of a relationship builder. That's what you are, you're there to build relationships. But I've seen myself shifting definitely recently to a more challenger mentality. And I think that kind of shift does elevate you in your in your client eyes, it adds additional value to them. And as Laura says, it allows you to get there, get the briefs and get on to the nitty gritty so that when we go back internally, we can produce the best work possible because we've fully understood their business, we've fully understood their aims. And again, to reiterate what Laura said, sometimes the client says, I want an explainer video for this, I don't want it done like this. And it's like, hang on, let's look at what you're trying to achieve. What are you talking to, and let's see if that is the right way. You're saying you want live action, maybe animation is better. By having that you really get people to think and it just builds, it just builds momentum and and you start to become a trusted adviser. And then they kind of reach out to you saying, right, we're trying to do this in 2021, we'd love to have your input on the content plan. And things like that opened up a whole new avenue conversation, a whole new added value to that relationship</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It's so true. That's so spot on, to kind of build on that point. What other skills do you think you need to be a great account manager, or strategic account manager? Because this is what we're talking about here? We're talking about providing a level of service and a level of kind of consultancy, to fulfil their business needs. So for both of you really, I'd love to know what what are the skills you think are important?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think listening is one of the biggest skills you need to have, as a strategic account manager, I think you must have listened to your client's needs, let them talk, you know, let them hit what are the difficulties they're facing? What are the objectives? What have they done before? What worked? What didn't work? Where are they at now? How is it affecting them? Listen, because out of that listening will come solutions that you can present to your clients. And that's not solutions just because you're getting a sale, it's genuine solutions that's going to help them achieve a goal. Interpersonal Communication skills, I think goes hand in hand you have to have those to do the job with people don't only just buy the work they'd people do buy our advice, and they buy us individually isn't, you know, they buy us if we care. And I'd say integrity is really important. You should always act with integrity. The services that we offer should always be right for the clients and the clients objective. We shouldn't be thinking about what products and services we offer that we can shoehorn into our client. It should be the other way around. So I think for me, those kind of three skills are key to being a strategic account manager.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I love that last point that you made about sort of our values really, you know, and our integrity. I spoke to an account manager early yesterday. I'm going to interview him on the podcast, he's from a completely different industry. He's from the tech industry. And the projects he's working on are hundreds of millions of pounds. And he started off by saying, values that are the key thing for me. Because if my company, if I'm not aligned with my company values, it's my reputation in the market. Because at that level, it's about your contacts and who you've created relationships with. So you've got to make sure that every role you have, you're aligned with your own personal values and integrity. So I love that point, Laura really well made. Andy, what about you anything that you would add to what Laura said? I think there's some great things there.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Andy &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, I think listening is vitally important. I think sometimes if you just sit and listen, a client does generally want to kind of share more with you as well, because people like, like to share about the business, the things that they're proud of the things that they want to improve, and they have genuine excitement about where they want to take their business. And I think would add to that the inquisitive nature, as well, if you've got an inquisitive nature, and you're probing, and you say, That's interesting, that's interesting, I think I want to know more about that, I want to know more about that. And if it is genuine, that really comes across as well. And that goes really, really far in the relationship. A couple of things I would say would be adaptability, this market is ever changing. Tech's always changing, that we use research tools are always changing, you've really got to be on it and willing to go with it if you want to be that forward thinking account manager. I would say, probably now more than ever as well. Resilience is absolutely key. A hell of a lot of work goes into working with clients, a lot of it behind the scenes as well, I think sometimes clients don't understand the work that goes into what you present to them, what your idea is that you're sharing. And sometimes it just doesn't come off. And that's the way it goes. And last year, we had several projects pulled because of COVID. For a resilient nature gets you through those and you get to reap the benefits as it comes back around when those compensations start up again. I think resilience is as a strong one that will will put you in good stead to be a decent account manager. And the only other thing I would add as well is just be a good human being. I think that's really really important as well, in these times, just being a decent human being to each other because it is even though it's business to business, it's still person to person. So be a good person.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Oh, no, that's such a lovely point. It's so nice. And, you know, we started off the call, didn't we, Laura shared that she's homeschooling at the moment, which I don't know about you. But a lot of my clients are homeschooling and it puts a pressure on you doesn't it puts a personal pressure on your life, and that's obviously going to spill over into the work life as well. So love that point, you know, be empathetic, and be human. Lovely point. I'm keen to have a few examples, maybe from both of you as to perhaps how you were able to add value to a client and what the impact on their business was.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, I can kick off with a couple of examples that might see what they said quite right. So we were commissioned to do a video strategy for Thomas Sanderson, Thomas Sanderson are very high end window furnishings company. And the video strategy runs right from sort of initially running out of business insights workshop sessions with the key stakeholders to gain insights into their marketing objectives, their goals, SWOTs etc, and understanding of their entire business right through to the final end of the video strategy. And one of the things I added to it, it sounds very basic. But this is just kind of a way in which I think a strategic account managers should be thinking is before we even went into this session, so I created what we call put together a pre flight questionnaire. And in this pre flight questionnaire, are all different information that we would need to know for this project. So it's Who are the people who are responsible? What are your marketing plans? What have you done? Who are your agencies? What trends do you use? What trends Bibles do you use kind of all of that kind of core information that we needed to get. And by gathering all that kind of basic information in like a big spreadsheet, which I could submit way prior to these workshops, it just allowed us and the purpose of me doing that was just get the detail, which allowed us to have so much detail we needed to know. But by knowing that, by thinking ahead, and knowing that we were able to allow us to have the time with those key stakeholders in that meeting, to just purely focus on planning, and getting their inputs into that process, which was, you know, one of the most valuable, they are time precious, we only had four hours, maybe per session. So actually not getting bogged down in some of that detail. It really helps just add value. And I think that's just one of the things that you can be thinking of as a tool, as strategic account managers. What can I do to make this process as streamlined as possible? And to get the most out of both of those sessions?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>That's really useful because that's repeatable, isn't it? Once you've put the effort into establishing your pre flight questionnaire, and maybe someone listening is thinking, Oh, we don't actually systemize the questions we ask or we don't sort of dig deep enough. And all of that experience of learning because when I'm hearing you both, actually you rattle off the types of questions that you typically ask your clients and it shows how ingrained that kind of behaviour is for you both so&nbsp; for many people maybe it doesn't come as second nature, but for you, I can see how sort of proficient you are with it. So I think that's a lovely idea and a great little tip for those listening craps to do that, you know, because it also allows you to systemize your onboarding process, doesn't it?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Like it says that yeah, exactly that it really helped with the onboarding, it helped me with a client that had never done a video strategy before. It helped them gather the information all in one sheet. So they knew exactly what they needed. It gave them time to do it. And as I said, it really allowed us to really focus on the core objectives of what their business workshop was with the right people.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And what's the downside of not asking the right questions.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>If you don't ask the right questions, you want to do that you're not going to get the right brief. The brief the brief won't be right. If you don't ask the right questions at that stage or the right information, your strategy, your recommendations could be completely wrong.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And time is money, isn't it? Right? Yeah, absolutely. That's right. Love it. Andy, what about for you any examples where you've been able to impact the client's business?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Andy &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, I think we worked on a big project last year ahead of Brexit it was for a road haulage company. And they've, it's almost like a once in a lifetime opportunity for them to launch this product that they've been developing to steal them ready for Brexit it was unlike anything else in the market. There was no way it was like a true USP in a very, very competitive, price driven commodity market. So we helped them market a product, which we know is a service, but it's called a product in the industry. And so what we did, we put together a multi channel campaign for them. And they never done marketing like this before. They relied heavily on tele sales and very little on inbound. So we created a multi channel strategy with video at the focus. And so this was during during COVID, it was one of the toughest times to film. And it really kind of stretched us as an agency in terms of reaching this high quality production content. We had like 35 people on set, we had stunt coordinators, we had COVID officers we had everything kind of all put into this piece of high value content that would be the centrepiece of the campaign that was all about utilising that and chopping that up in different ways that we could hit certain target markets who could remarket to them via YouTube, it could reach out to them on LinkedIn. And then that all kind of led to that was a lot of generating awareness. And then we moved people further down the funnel, round the flywheel should I say, into the engagement side of things. So we help them do a webinar, they usually do person to person event face to face events in person. But we help them do a webinar where they had over 1000 signups over 800&nbsp; new people engaging with them. And then that kind of filtered into really, really high quality leads that they then had the telesales and the team to then convert. So we generated a hell of a lot of leads ahead of what is going to be an intense time for a lot of people. So that's where we added some serious value, because they wouldn't have been able to get to that point in such a tight timeframe, we're talking about five month timeframe, doing zero, all the way up to boom, let's do our biggest ever marketing campaign that we can do. So it was a lot of steep learning curves. And as a client, say they have a graph of pain that kind of goes up like that, and then the bubbles like that, and then another bit of growth comes out. So we've been in the graph of pain portion of that. But we really, really knocked out some incredible content, some incredible results, so that for them to trust us with their most important opportunity in the industry that they've ever come across. And all of them have been in it for a long time, it was quite something significant about the pressure. But it was really, really great to have the opportunity to grab it and run with it, which we did as a team. It took a hell of a lot of us to to deliver those results.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>A few things you've said, I love what you said one of the things is a bit of a reminder about repurposing content and assets you've already got. I know that's something you particularly do really, really well, particularly in the you know, the COVID situation, because a lot of our clients have either been tightening their belt suddenly. But also like working with them with the whole strategy in mind. And then getting them results in such a short period of time. I mean, that shows a huge amount of agility on your part to have pulled that out of the bag and get that all done and get the results within that timeframe.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Andy &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I would you say yeah, it were quite nimble, like throughout the process. One thing that I do want to say is that Skeleton had worked with that client for seven years prior to that. So there was a lot of trust that had been built up. And it was an intense collaboration with the client as well, the client was fully dedicated to this opportunity, as well. So there was a lot of back and forth a lot of continued communication. So when I talked about it being a team effort it was about with the client as well. And I think that's something that helps drive results is by setting those common goals at the beginning what you're trying to achieve, and then working to it and all committing to making it a success and that that's what both was and the client did.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I love that you brought that up as well actually because you're getting buy in, aren't you you need to get all the stakeholders involved that are going to make that decision. Bring them on that journey with you. And obviously you had built up the trust over seven years. So they were more likely to say okay, we trust you because you've done good work for us in the past. But I still think that's that's really good work. Extending that a little bit, why do you think clients stay with you for the long term? I mean, seven years is a long time for a client to stay with you. What do you think is the secret?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Andy &nbsp;</strong></div><div>&nbsp;I think in terms of the way we work with people goes back to what we've seen before. We've got that challenger mentality, we're not just there just to execute what they say, what we do is right at the beginning, we try and learn as much about the business as possible so that we can kind of help them grow, help them develop. And yeah, I think it's content that works, and then show them the results and the return on investment of that as well. And it almost just becomes, like natural, it's like why wouldn't we do that, because we know we've got previous track record of delivering XYZ. So let's do that for this and see how that works. And I think I think that's just just just a big part of it just so happens a lot with agencies like we have done a great bit of work, here you go, whatever it is, that's it, and then we'll kind of sit down and think, oh, that's really, really great. But that's, to me as an account manager that's almost like, that's the end of the beginning. The next part is seeing how that works, how we can improve what you've worked on, but also how you can build on the future. And that's continual, it's not linear. And I think if you've got that kind of mentality, it does keep clients on board, because why wouldn't they? Because you're helping them grow their business. So I think that's probably the reason why people would stick with us and do stay with us.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Great. And I would agree, I mean, one of the things you both do really, really well is to talk about your case studies in the context of always including business outcomes that you've achieved. And that's a really good point, Andy about, you know, the more outcomes you achieve for the client, the more results you've achieve, it's perpetuating, isn't it, you can reflect on how much they've done with you. And then, you know, build on that with further ideas using your trends analysis and your insight. So that's really the secret to momentum in terms of growing the account, isn't it? Laura, you were just going to say something.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Just building on what Andy said, Really, I just think that the reason, one of the reasons they stay with us is because, you know, we listen. And when we're not scared to challenge that brief, we really care. And we deliver, we always deliver and we don't just sell, we are trusted if not strategic advisors to our clients, it is this kind of perpetual cycle is not linear. We're not just order takers. That isn't how we like to work with our clients. And we like creating beautiful work that takes their audience on a journey, and ultimately drives those results. And we keep thinking of ideas and new ideas how we can build on that, as you've mentioned, in the sort of current climate and how we can maximise their budgets by repurposing existing footage so that they still got some content that they can still be communicating with their audience for but within the new budget that they're now working with. So it's always kind of being agile, and always listening to what they're doing.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Lovely, Andy, what were you going to say?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Andy &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I'd say the word you used then, momentum, I think that is absolutely vital when working with clients to keep that wheel spinning, keep feeding them ideas, keep working with them, they're not gonna say yes to every single one. But you still have given them ideas, you still adding value in some other way, getting them thinking, I think, maintaining that it should be absolutely priority, once you've work that hard to get it up to speed, maintaining that momentum. And another big word to set alongside that would be consistency. So be consistent with your clients keep that momentum going. And that will drive results.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It's so true, because what's the worst that can happen? They say, Well, no, that idea particularly under you know, it's not the right time for us, or, you know, that doesn't particularly align with what we've had planned for this year, you know, but they're left with the perception of, wow, these guys are consistently bringing me new thoughts, new ideas based on their understanding of what's changing in the market. Because let's face it, our clients are very kind of, they go very deep in their products, don't they and their business. But we go wide and deep in our industry, and what's changing. So I think that's really valuable. Do you have any kind of forums or situations meetings, that you have those kind of more strategic discussions on a more regular basis? Or do you find that these are ad hoc ideas that you bring to them on a regular basis?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>They can be for me a combination of both. So we have regular catch up meetings with them, I would say about sort of top clients. And then those catch up sessions, they are more kind of strategic in terms of where they are in terms of business sharing quarterly plans. And we can get out of these sessions, we then sort of come up with different ideas and suggestions. Or it's just ad hoc, because we're looking at latest trends for different customer bases. So I've got a customer that's in beauty, I've got a customer that's in interiors. So it's looking at their different trends and spotting different things I literally before just before this call, I've just spotted something I've just sent to a client that I thought was amazing but is on brief, you know, really, really interesting for the business. I think it's, for me, I think it's a combination of both dependent clients really.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>That's a great tip as well, Laura, sort of keeping abreast of what's changing so that the news is coming to you on a regular basis. And then you're sharing it with your client and providing your point of view. You know, because I understand your business because I understand where we are in the relationship. This is why I believe that this is particularly relevant for you. And perhaps this is the action we need to take. So I know that you both do that on a regular basis. So again, it's adding huge amount of value. Andy was there anything else that you were going to add there?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Andy &nbsp;</strong></div><div>No, I very much the same as Laura sometimes you have structured meetings, and especially when you're doing like onboarding a client, you'll have every kind of structured meeting to them break down ideas and then future kind of pathways that you can take with them. But I really, really love the organic approach, one thing that I do like to do is make sure I've got connected with people on LinkedIn everyone you work with anytime you've emailed someone that is potential work with them, add them on LinkedIn, because I think it's a really, really easy way to share ideas. As you're scrolling through LinkedIn, sometimes you see something that information about their industry think, oh, I don't know whether you've seen this. But I think this is actually quite cool and quite relevant to what we're working on or, or there's this new bit of software that can measure this I don't know if that might be useful for you. And so by having that, so there's a lot of stuff that happens organically doesn't have to be some gigantic presentation that you're working on to show your ideas. I'll give an example actually I worked with a project management company IT project management company, and their biggest competitor did this amazing Christmas video, they spent mega mega bucks on it, and it was great. I said, Oh, this is really, really great. Maybe we can do it next Christmas type of thing like joking around. But then after I'd watched that I was getting hit with remarketing videos on YouTube. And I was like, taking screenshots of it and just say, they're chunking this video to hit me with because I think I'm interested in because I've been researching. That's what we should be doing. Once we get to the end of the video project we're working on, we should be doing that. And it can just be those things, you don't have to come with a massive deck to pitch my ideas and just overwhelm them I think, the organic, it shows that you're you're thinking about them. And I think I think that's a key thing that consistency links back to that consistency that I was on about.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>You've both shared so much value and tips you know, for people listening, I think you're just like, bam, bam, do this do that. It's really useful. Thank you. I was gonna ask you like, you're obviously, you know, advanced in your career that you've both done an awful lot. Lots of exposure to different types of businesses, different types of role, you're very senior, what do you wish you'd learnt earlier in your career that you think would have been kind of really useful?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>What do I wish I'd learned earlier, I wish that I had learned not to be afraid of the word strategy. I think early on in your career, the word strategy, particularly if you come from a full service or agency background, you always associate with an actual strategist, actually being strategic is just a different way of thinking. And I think that's something could certainly have recently I have I've really learned that, actually not to be scared of that word strategy. It's just a different mindset. It's just a way of breaking down information. And early on in the career, don't be afraid to ask questions. They're your clients who are just there to get the right information out of them. Be yourself. And the brief for me is key. The devil is always in the detail. If you don't challenge that brief, if you don't answer those questions as we've already said, you know, the output will never be on brief, which is going to cost more money and more time and frustration for both parties.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Do you know what I bet there are loads of people listening to this thinking, whew, about that strategy, because I think a lot of people do get bogged down with that to say, Oh, it's like, this is someone strategic? And I'm not. And actually we all are, it's just a different way of thinking exactly, as you said. So don't be afraid of it. So I love that really good. And asking great questions. Again, you know, you don't have to have all the answers in front of your client. In fact, don't let that hold you back. Just simply turning the conversation back to the clients, say tell me a bit more about that. Give me a bit more detail, or can you share a bit of background that allows them to then give you more context? And then you can sort of, you know, don't feel like you've got to have all the answers. I think you both kind of this has come through in this chat. You know, listen and ask questions, I think is fundamentally, what an account manager really should be doing all the time. Andy, what about you? What would you have said that you wish you'd known a lot earlier?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Andy &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So I would say the same as Laura, to be honest, a lot of it, there's no stupid questions, there's a lot of jargon and acronyms out there, just don't be afraid to ask what they are. Because if you think it means one thing, it could potentially mean another. So I'd always get those clarifications from people because it is very, very broad, when looking at those types of things. And as Laura said, Be yourself, I think people do love it. It's a people, person to personal business. So on that. And then also, I would say, obviously, no one's perfect. And we do make mistakes, I think it's very important to own your mistakes as well. Don't ever try and cover them up or anything like that, whether it's internal or external, own your mistakes, because there are people, if you're just starting out, there will be people more seeing you can help you. And I think clients do appreciate it. If you have&nbsp; made a mistake to put your hand up and say, Look, I made this mistake, this is what we're gonna do about it and go to them with a solution. It adds value through mistake. Strangely, you don't go out making them intentionally. But I think owning the mistakes is a big important one.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And actually, that's really brilliant point as well. Like if there is a mistake, or if there is a problem. The way you handle that problem really can bond you with the client. It can make the client see you even more valuable can't it, how you conduct yourself, how you tackle it, how you speak to the client, how you hold yourself, and actually honesty. Absolutely 100% agree, Andy because you just tell a little fib about anything at any point and your credibility is just gone through the floor. Continuing this thing for both of you to share with me your biggest challenges and how you've overcome them because I think. Again, anyone listening to this maybe on their account management career journey? Either they're gonna come up against the challenge, or they might have experienced the challenge before. So, from your perspective, what are some of the challenges you've had?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So some of the challenges that I get with clients are, the clients don't like to be challenged on their brief. And that is part of our job to challenge on the brief. Or we have a situation where we've gone past the briefing stage and we're sort of putting together creative options, and the almost one, a hybrid option, kind of mixing too many messages together so that the end result is just mixing, confused, confusing, and doesn't really have a clear creative thread or an idea running through it. For me overcoming those challenges, really, it's to stop and pause, stop, pause and call a meeting, get all the key stakeholders in the meeting, the creative team, if necessary, to clearly explain, from our eyes, our expertise, the rationale for why we're making these decisions. So why we're making these recommendations. And what options are there to move forward. We are experts in the field. They're experts in their business. And it's about the two parties coming together and acting as a team, ultimately, to get the best outcome. And often in that situation, you'll use anecdotes or examples of where this happened for other clients, and you can easily show the other work and show how that the different impacts of the results. That's hard just to bring it to life. And then from that you get there, you can often sometimes have a bit of resistance between an agency and the client. And we're doing it for the good of the job. And we are experts. And that's why you're using us. So just calling that meeting, having a really open forum to talk like that, I find often just comes out with a really good result. I've had it on a project recently. And it you know, it was great. There was no problem. There was absolutely no problem after that meeting. We were all aligned.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I love that. I mean, a realignment meeting is brilliant. And presumably the client was open to having a realignment meeting. I think some people call it mid project review meetings. You know, typically, we always do this just to make sure we're all on track all on the same page. But that would make total sense to me to do that. Yeah. So if they don't like being challenged on the brief, are there any other ways that you can shift that perception? Because maybe some clients, you know, see us in that order, take a bucket? And say no, just do it, just get on with it? How can you deal with that situation?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Those clients can be difficult. So we do have clients that I would say they don't want to work closely with us this is as a commodity. And they want to do some more on a transactional basis. And kind of no matter what advice we kind of want to offer them. It's very frustrating when they just want to see us as order takers. And ultimately that's not how we want to work for clients. And it really is on that stage by challenging the brief, it really is about talking to him about the best outcome. And these are the options that we have for you. We could do it this way. Or we could do it this way. And this is the reason why we don't have this information, or we don't have this information. This isn't right, this is what we're going to end up with. So what we get quite often, when you challenge on a brief is many account managers will find this is that the clients will want to say far too much in one piece of communication. And that's not just a video that goes across absolutely everything. And that's one of the things that we always challenging is actually what are we saying? And who are we talking to. And we really need to dilute this message right down. And sometimes when you spell that out, in a brief and you can turn it flip into something completely different. And you give them an example. They then usually say, oh, okay, I see what you mean. Now, this message is confusing. I don't know what you're trying to tell me. Or you can but you can bring up a TV advert you can bring up anything, you can bring up in a really bad example, as a reference to say, this is why we're challenging you. Because ultimately, what we're going to end up with is something that's very confusing that's not a brief that doesn't talk to your audience.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Great. So it's kind of giving them an example of, you know, if we carry on down this road, we're gonna end up here, but actually, we need to end up here. And here's why. And this is how it's usually done typically. And I mean, advertising. I mean, I come from an advertising background, it was always drummed into me, it's a one message medium, you know, and you've got to be really clear with that one message. And some people just want to put all of their bullet points and then the other one make the logo bigger, isn't it? Andy, what about you, in terms of challenges?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Andy &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I kind of definitely echo what Laura said, Sometimes there's like the realignment meeting just to make sure you're on the you're on the right track. Because the amount of times something could get misconstrued in an email like tone obviously doesn't come through. And sometimes you like be sat there thinking, did they mean it like this to the meaning like that, just pick up the phone and call someone or arrange a meeting, just just do it, it's much easier to kind of really understand what someone's saying. So just make time for those conversations when you need to. I think one of the things that's always ever present is the pace of marketing that we mentioned earlier, why adaptability is so important to kind of constantly try and stay ahead of the game. I think that's always going to be a case not something that you just have to live with. And if you don't enjoy that, it'd be quite tough to be that kind of leader. So you generally have to have some desire to be able to do that. But even then it's still very, very kind of challenging. But we internally have forums where we can share great work we've seen we can share great ideas, we can share what other people have been doing. And so I would recommend that if you're part of a team to share that knowledge, and you kind of share the burden of all staying abreast of that. And I think that's something that's been quite powerful for us. And I also think one of the tougher challenges is not having access to the final decision maker, whether you're working with a partner agency, you've not got access to the client, or you're working with one of the mid tier and they're reporting into C suite, that is always a challenge to be able to get what you're trying to say, to the final decision maker through an intermediary. And basically,&nbsp; you've got to equip that person as best as possible to do that, if you can't secure that direct dialogue. And that's all it is always fall back on, I always push to get that meeting to the final person, because you're the experts, you know, it all you can feel the questions that might be coming out of it. So always, always push for that. But then failing that, just make sure that the person that you deal with is fully equipped, got everything that they need, they feel confident in what you've gone through with them to make sure they've got all the necessary tools, but that one is never gonna go away. And that is just sometimes the way it is, especially if you're fielding pitches from multiple agencies as it can happen. So yeah, that's one that always kind of, you've just got to do your best given the situation.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Totally agree on that. And it just to build on it, I'd say like, when you have your projects that you're working on, it's kind of if you haven't got access to that stakeholder, and you can't and you fully equip your client, but just ensuring that you have all the key stakeholders involved at the key sign of processes. So each milestone at the point of no return, you know that there's key stakeholder in the business has at least signed that project off, or signed that milestone off.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>&nbsp;I think this is really good. It's a really good topic. And so when you say equip them, do you mean provide your contact with a business case, so that they can then present that easily to the C suite?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Andy &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Exactly that and depending on what what you want to do whether you want to create a video for them, it can come in different formats, as well as depending on how you want to get that across to them. It could it could be in a PDF, it could be in PowerPoint, Whatever it is, as long as there's something on there that also sells the idea that you're trying to pitch them, but also sells your agency or you as well, I think that's sometimes important, because you're not able to build that rapport with the end decision maker. So making sure that you've got a little bit of something in there, that is personal, either about you or about the company does help a little bit and give you a bit of credibility, but kind of add that in towards the end. But build them the best business case you can. and then you've just got to hope that that's delivered in the way that you would want to deliver it or as close as possible.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And Laura, you said, you know, make sure that you have like key meetings, where all the decision makers around the table and all the key stakeholders so that someone doesn't come in the last minute and say, ooh I've got a change. You know, last night, I spoke to my neighbor's daughter, and she said, you know, we might want to do this with the video that happened to you?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, now we'd like it blue and green, please.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And make the logo bigger! What other ways can we make sure that we are reaching the key decision makers, maybe our day to day contact is not a key decision maker. Any other thoughts on that?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Making sure that we kind of introduction at the beginning of the project really, and making the whoever our client is aware of what the key milestones are. So what the key milestones are, what are the points of No Return, and what implications they will have to the business if that stakeholder isn't included, for instance, cost implications. So if we are going to put together a storyboard and we sign storyboard off, or if we film something, which can be extremely costly, and we're travelling around the world to film it, and someone hasn't got the buy in from the initial concept that's got massive financial implications. And they were the client who will have to sign that off. So it's in their interests, to share it with the key stakeholders, or to at least get the key stakeholders involved in an initial briefing session or an initial meeting, or at least make sure that they are presenting it to them on our behalf. So it's kind of trying to flip it back really, to the client, always. it's in their interest. It's not just in our interest, it's in their interest to make sure that this briefing is going to be right.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Great tips here about sort of managing expectations from the beginning. You know, making sure that you have all of these conversations upfront as part of your onboarding process. So lovely tips. Thank you so much. A few sort of tactical questions, what tools do you tend to use in your job, any sort of apps or tools that you think that help your account management process?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>&nbsp;We use HubSpot for our CRM tool, which is our main CRM tool that we use. We use Trello boards to manage our products, actions, kind of daily management tools, Jam boards really good, you know, especially at the minute, we're working remotely, just because we can't get into a situation where we're in a boardroom with sticky notes, it's a virtual sticky note board, which is quite cool to use.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Is that jam board? How do you spell that?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Jam board and then it's part it's part of Google suite, G Suite and it's really cool. It's really easy. We've used it for a few like brainstorming sessions and stuff, which is it has worked quite well actually. And use it for clients stuff as well. And we use as a business we use Toggl and stuff as a time management tool, but project management tools really Trello, HubSpot, Jam board.&nbsp; I'm sure Andy's got loads more.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Andy &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I do though, I do love a good day. I do love a good tool, to be honest, to make our life a little bit easier. I would say HubSpot again, is my absolute favourite that we work with it can track email. So if you're working across an account with all the people, they can see clear communication that you've had, which allows you to burrow further if sharing an account are the things that I do like it has a trackable document you can send to me if your clients are engaging with the content that you're sending them, whether it be PDF or something similar. And it's got tasks in it as well, which I think is really, really vital sometimes to you've got an email, you can set a task to follow up or you can set a task to do this by a certain date. And then you can just go to your task list and just work through them. Because I think one of the hardest things you can do probably I mentioned this earlier, is create structure, as an account manager to give yourself some structure of where you should be spending your time. And HubSpot helps me do that. I think other things that really help you we're starting using Frame.io for feedback. So it's not just about doing great work for our clients is about making ourselves as easy as possible and stress free to work with as possible. Frame IO is one of the tools that we've recently invested in that really helped us do that.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And what does that specifically?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Andy &nbsp;</strong></div><div>So it's such a, it seems such a little thing. But so what essentially is it's a tool for reviewing video. So you can easily just kind of like click on the video where you want to comment on the timestamp. And then it's also got revision history as well. So you can see what feedback was given on stage one, to then reflect back on that or look at stage to see, see where those changes have been implemented, and then then be able to work that way. And it just gives a very kind of clear idea to the client. So if they're reporting internally, what's happening with the project, you can say, right, we're at stage one, this is where at stage one, these are the changes that was supposed to make and more than ever it is powerful, because it allows that collaboration from wherever you are, it's very rare, someone's going to sit and watch a video in an office and you've got all stakeholders around. So anyone from anywhere, and you can do in different time zones, you can even enough conversations on it. So someone says I want this being read, or they want it read because of XYZ and say, Yeah, okay, we'll make it green. So it's got things like that. And that seems such a small snippet, but it's all part of owning the client, and owning the experiment. So keeping that momentum going. Because I think sometimes it's not just about great quality of work. It's about how easy you are to work with, as well once things get going. So there's that. And then a biggie that I've used a lot, especially with the campaign that I mentioned earlier was Wistia. So Wistia is a video hosting platform. But it's got great analytical tools on it. So you can see where people are dropping off, you can see rewatcher, you can see where people are engaging on call to actions. And it really really does help them to see how well the content's performing. You think people are rewatching this part, do we break that down further create some content around that people will be watching it because they want to know more about it, or they don't fully understand it in that video. So let's expand upon that and create some content for it. And then you measure that. So Wistia and I know other video hosting platforms that do that, but I don't think any quite does it as well as Wistia. So that's a really kind of big tool for me to show that added value that we bring.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Very valuable, very valuable. Thank you so much. I'll add a couple more just on from my side Streak is something that I use that integrates with Gmail. So it's like HubSpot, but it does what I want it to do in terms of CRM, Mural, and Miro, you've probably come across them, but for collaboration and you know, everyone doing post it notes, a brainstorming session, some kind of strategy session is often useful. But thank you for sharing. Those are really, really useful. Just two more questions, because I'm conscious of your time, how do you see the account management role evolving in the future?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I think the role would become more strategic for an account manager. We are strategic account managers. And I think within the agency businesses, account managers will be given more remit, more remit more trust and more confidence to get to know their clients better. I think there'll be less of a hierarchy like there has historically been in agencies, and more ownership for the account managers to really get to burrow into those clients and get to know them, get to know them better, and work with them more strategically.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Amazing. What about you, Andy?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Andy &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Yeah, this same kind of thing, I think, expected to be more integrated into your clients, clients company, the clients team, I think that'll be an expectation. And it's something that we do do now. But now it's slightly out out of the norm. But it will become the expectation, I think that's where it's going to go and it's, it's just going to be all about getting to know absolutely anything and everything you can about that client and about the business and the way the business works not just about their market, but the way the business works, because that makes it so much easier when you're dealing with the more process side of things like sign off, to get everyone on board those types of things. And not only are they producing great content, but you're making yourself as easy as possible to work with. I think that'll be a big part of it. But I think the thing at the moment is no one's to show what that looks like. And I think that's probably a really exciting, exciting prospect because we really don't know what that is. And we're able to kind of help shape that.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I agree with you and the point you made, Laura was really key, I think the idea of consultancy being more like a management consultant understanding their business problems, I think it's a huge trend. And, in fact, I was in very, thankfully invited to a roundtable discussion the other day with a group of Client Services directors for BIMA. And that was the one topic that we're talking about this idea of consultancy, because many account managers are having their names changed to consultant. That's the trend that's happening, and being more consultative. So I think you're right, not, you know, goes without saying that you've got the likes of Accenture, Deloitte, PwC, buying creative agencies left, right and centre. So that kind of trend is that that the two are kind of merging? So I absolutely agree, I think that's spot on. Just Finally, any kind of final bits, and you've shared so much value. By the way, I just thank you so much, both of you. Any final advice or tips for someone who perhaps is listening to this and thinking, I love the idea of being more of a strategic account manager, any advice for them?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I would say that advice for them first of all, don't be afraid of that word strategy again. Because it really is about just getting to know your clients a bit a bit more. Ask the questions. Listen, don't be afraid to challenge the brief as we said, immerse yourself in their world. Sign up for top tips you know trick tips and trends and things that are happening, you know, if you've got a client that's in fashion, or you've got a client, this interiors or whatever their business might be SaasTech, immerse yourself in that world, get to know it, so that you can really add some value and share the thoughts have been put into it as well. And enjoy it.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Lovely, lovely advice. Thanks, Laura. What about you, Andy? any parting tips?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Andy &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Oh, obviously, it's taking your course Jenny? That's the big one.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>I did not pay you to say that did I?!</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Andy &nbsp;</strong></div><div>No, no. In all seriousness, obviously,&nbsp; working with you is really, really helped both of us. And it's given us confidence. It's given us structure. And it's given us some great tools that we can build on, because we already had a lot of good skills. So it was good, knowing A we've got those skills, and we're good at it. That's a confidence part. And it's like, right, where do you take this next. And I think if you're looking at the bigger picture, I think like learn from the leaders in the industry, I guess, we'll learn from that, adapt your approach, be prepared to fail, because not everything you try is going to work. But then you make sure you're okay with thatm reflecting you go again. And I think, again, just constantly just wanting to learn consume as much information and don't be afraid to try something that might be a little bit different, a little bit alien. But once you've done it a few times, it very much becomes a part of who you are. So I think looking at people who are out there doing it right and who have been doing it right for a number of years, I think is a great way to kind of look up to those people and and try and emulate some of the stuff that they do that really works.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Fantastic. Thank you so much, Andy. And I really appreciate the feedback. I think you two are an absolute pleasure to work with, like, absolutely. You know, you had it all. But working together. I think I just saw that kind of enhanced kind of level of consultancy. But if someone is really kind of enjoyed this chat and want to get hold of you, who particularly do you work with client wise, who might be listening and thinking, I really love the sound of utilising video in such a strategic way for my business.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>&nbsp;In terms of clients that we like to work with, we like to work with all clients, so from startup companies, to SMEs to global organisations, who have got, who've got a story to tell what we do, we make videos, it's the art of storytelling. And it's the art of storytelling mixed with whatever there's going to be live action animation, what that looks like, we are telling a story that is ultimately going to make somebody an audience do something. And from that doing that something there's going to be a result. And whether you're in any of those organisations that I've just mentioned in you're in B2B or B2C? You know, really, we'd love to work with you, we'd love to show you what we can do.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>Brilliant, and how can people reach you? What's the best way?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>The best way to reach us is a fire our Well, our website, really and our details on the website, or directly via email addresses and mine is laura.cohen?skeletonproductions.com.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>And is the website skeletonproductions.com?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>The website is skeleton productions.com. And all our contact details are on there as are our faces.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>You're right, your lovely faces. Well, thank you both so much, honestly, that was really, really brilliant. And I think so many people would have got so much value. So many ideas coming through. So thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Laura &nbsp;</strong></div><div>No problem. Thank you very much for having us. And thank you very much your course you really have added so much, so much to us. And yeah, I think both Andy and I have really benefited benefited from the course so thank you.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;</strong></div><div>It's a pleasure. I hope you came away with lots of tools and ideas and tips that you can take away from this episode and apply right now in your role. Just a reminder that on the 15th of April, I'm going to be running my next Account Accelerator programme. This is a three month training and coaching programme. There are weekly calls, and I take you through a step by step programme to take your agency from unpredictable project revenue to more predictable account growth. So by the end of 90 days, you come away with a client centric plan to increase your revenue from your existing accounts. So if you'd like to join me, please get hold of me on LinkedIn, Jenny Plant, or drop me an email. It's Jenny@accountmanagement skills.com. I look forward to hearing from you soon.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2021 06:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/j8qvvlkw.mp3" length="66998250" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/fec04bf0-6170-11eb-9b46-3159908fa966/fec04d40-6170-11eb-8ce7-5799f1e87901.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3349</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Andy Young and Laura Cohen are both strategic account managers for Skeleton Productions, a full service agency specialising in video production.

In this chat, they share some brilliant tips and ideas for account managers who want to enhance their account management skills.

They share:

* Why shifting from being a good relationship builder to taking more of a 'challenger' approach with your clients works
* How to build trust with your client so they take risks to do bigger and bolder projects
* Why keeping your finger on the pulse with future trends in your specialism is key to ensuring your clients see you as an advisor rather than order taker
* What a pre-flight questionnaire is an how to use one
* Why you shouldn't be scared of the word "strategy"
* Tips for how they've kept decision makers engaged throughout projects and how to get things back on track if the project goes awry

I hope you come away with lots of ideas to implement in your role.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Andy Young and Laura Cohen are both strategic account managers for Skeleton Productions, a full service agency specialising in video production.

In this chat, they share some brilliant tips and ideas for account managers who want to enhance their account management skills.

They share:

* Why shifting from being a good relationship builder to taking more of a 'challenger' approach with your clients works
* How to build trust with your client so they take risks to do bigger and bolder projects
* Why keeping your finger on the pulse with future trends in your specialism is key to ensuring your clients see you as an advisor rather than order taker
* What a pre-flight questionnaire is an how to use one
* Why you shouldn't be scared of the word "strategy"
* Tips for how they've kept decision makers engaged throughout projects and how to get things back on track if the project goes awry

I hope you come away with lots of ideas to implement in your role.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Exceptional leadership and having difficult conversations, with Nadine Powrie</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/4n97z1wn</link>
      <itunes:title>Exceptional leadership and having difficult conversations, with Nadine Powrie</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>15</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">v076kx91</guid>
      <description>This episode is for you if you're an agency leader or you're managing a team. 

My guest is a good friend of mine Nadine Powrie who is an executive leadership coach and workplace mediator who specialises in helping people have difficult conversations.

Nadine has helped hundreds of people enhance their leadership ability through her coaching and training. and is an expert in her field. Her podcast "Leading the Coaching Change" is currently celebrating its 80th episode and she has a weekly LinkedIn live session with other leadership coaches where they discuss topics that are relevant to those who want to develop their skills and keep abreast of changes in their field.

In this chat, Nadine shares her thoughts and insights into:

* What makes an exceptional leader
* How two leaders in her career made a lasting impact on her life (and what you can learn from it)
* Why having a clear vision, strategy and values defined are so key to being a successful leader
* The surprising truth about hiring the right people for your team
* How to set yourself up for success before having a difficult conversation

I could have discussed these topics with Nadine all day as she has a wealth of experience and knowledge and I'd like to invite her back to share some more tips with the account management community.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Transcript:<br><strong>Transcript:<br></strong><br></div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>So I'm thrilled today to welcome Nadine. Nadine is a friend of mine. And she also happens to be an expert in leadership skills, and also managing difficult conversations. And I first met Nadine, a few years ago now, where we were in a masterclass together. And I was really, really impressed by first of all her public profile, how much she gives of herself online and how much value she provides. And she's a podcaster herself. She's got a very, very high quality programme, all about managing difficult conversations. And she's written white papers, and she's got a very impressive background. And I thought, who else would I invite on my programme today? Because I think she can provide tonnes of value to us, particularly around leadership and also managing difficult conversations. So Nadine, welcome.<br><br></div><div><strong>Nadine&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Hello. Hello, Jenny. And well, thank you so much for this amazing introduction. I feel like saying okay, the end now. I've done everything you said, thank you so much for that.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>You're welcome. But um, I know I've left loads of gaps. So just as to kick us off. Would you mind spending a few minutes just talking about your background? And also, now, who you help.<br><br></div><div><strong>Nadine&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Who am I helping? And who am I? Okay, well, the first thing to say probably, you'll understand, and you'll hear through my terrible accent.&nbsp; I'm French, but I am here in the UK. And very proud to be in the UK actually, I've got my settled status. And so no matter what Brexit is decided for me, I will stay in the UK. And so I've been in the UK since 1989. I have done all my career in the UK in education, about 25 years in education. I did two headships, secondary. And I have four children. And at the moment, when I was thinking about, oh, how should I introduce myself, when Jenny's going to ask me that question. I sort of, you know, usually I would say, Well, I'm an executive and leadership coach, and I'm a workplace mediator, and, but at the moment, I feel that I've got different hats that I am wearing at the same time. I have four children, three of them are in the world of work, and one of them is still at uni, shes at Kings, in her final year. So at the moment, I am a mother. And every day, my children are contacting me since COVID. And I'm a wife of an amazing person he is writing on French cinema. He's a professor, and I'm a I'm a daughter, my mum is in France, and suddenly I've not been able to see her. And so I'm having to juggle that. And I have my own company. So I'm a businesswoman. And I've had my own company for the past five years now. I left my headship in 2016 so I'll start my fifth year, and I'm an executive and leadership coach. I'm a workplace mediator. I'm an a learning designer, because I do a lot of training, leadership training. And I have a podcast, you mentioned it, leading to coaching change. And I do LinkedIn live every Thursday, at four o'clock GMT. And when I was speaking to a client this week, she said to me, so when do you have all the time to do that, and to work full time as well. And I think that when you have passion, you can do it all. And because you do it every day, it's and because you have consistency, it's easy to do. And you get better at it as well, because habits, so I'm getting better at, you know, editing my podcasts or preparing my LinkedIn live. And so so yeah, so it's, um, you know, it's, it's, it's me, really.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>you could certainly see the passion that comes through with everything you do online. I mean, when you do those LinkedIn lives, which I think are super valuable, by the way, and anyone that's listening, I would really recommend tuning in, because I learned so much, but you can you can see the energy coming from you, Nadine, it just speaks volumes that actually it's very, very attractive.&nbsp; I'm also glad that you introduced yourself in that in that way in, you know, giving all the context of how many hats you wear, because particularly right now, many of us, you know we're recording this in January, and many people that we know are locked down, and we're kind of fed up and you know, we've got a lot of the pressures, some people are managing small children having to homeschool others are managing family members. And, you know, if you're not ill, it's the boredom and there's lots of different so thank you for introducing yourself in such a humanist way, I really enjoyed that. I think the one thing that with people listening into this what I, what I was thinking before when I was preparing these questions is because you are an expert in leadership skills, I'd love you to sort of talk talk to us a little bit about that, because you've met so many very, very senior leaders and you've worked so closely with them. What for you, in your experience makes a really great leaders?<br><br></div><div><strong>Nadine&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Ok, I was reflecting on that, actually. And I was thinking about the people I worked with when I was working in education wise to work in education, but in in a different way. And I've had the privilege to work with two amazing heads that and they have totally shaped who I am today. So the first one was called Derek Wise. He was the head teacher at Cramlington, it's now Cramlington Learning Village in Northumberland. And the reason why I think he's, he is not alive anymore. He died a couple of years ago. But he was an amazing head. And he was amazing, because he had a very clear vision, very clear vision. And he had a very clear strategic plan. But most importantly, he had the right people in the right seat. So we always go back to Jim Collins, you know, 'from good to great'. And he knew exactly where to put people in which position in which roles in the school, he was extremely consistent with his communication. So his communication was clear, consistent. And we all knew our roles. And there was no debate around that. And we all knew what to achieve. And the school got a third Ofsted Oustanding. And he came in and he said, Well, you know, we've we've got the Outstanding for a third time, and he cried. And, and, and it felt very moving. Because actually, we'd all built that together, there was a real spirit of we were all in it together kind of, you know, approach. And it was a risk taker, don't take me wrong, even if there was a strategic plan, you would take calculated risks. And the best gift he did, he did, he had a research group. And I was part of it. So every Thursday, I would stay until about six o'clock at school. And we would talk between four and six, we would talk about research and education and what was working best around, you know, around the world in terms of education, in terms of learning and in terms of leadership. And at one point, he said, you know, if any of you want to go and study something specific around the world, just write a business proposal, and give it to me. So I thought, wow, you know, there's lots of things I'm interested in. But I had four children. And at that point, my youngest one was a baby. So I thought, well, it's going to be a bit difficult for me to travel. But you know, I just took my chance. And I'd always been interested in gifted and talented children. And it was actually it was quite a passion for me, probably because when I was at school when I was young, I jumped a year group. And so I was always fascinated as to you know, what, why is it that some children learn quicker than others and are more curious. And so I wrote a proposal, and I gave it to him thinking there is no way he is going to send me to Australia and New Zealand for four weeks during term time. So I had done my cost and everything. You know, he could not ask me any questions. I had thought of every possible question. But it had to be on two A4 pages. And then one morning, he would always do that he would have his hand in his pocket and look through his windows in his office. And he called me in and I said, Well, it's probably to tell me that, you know, no, thank you, but no thanks. And he said to me, Well, you'd better pack up. And I will never forget that. And so off I went, so my parents flew to the UK to look after my children. And off I went and my husband could could travel with me because he's an academic. So he was able to do his research as well in Australia and in New Zealand. So off we went to Australia and New Zealand, and I toured many schools to look at best practice in terms of leadership and gifted and talented children. I mean, saw some amazing practice, met some amazing people. One of them was called Barbara Prashnig. She did a lot of work on learning style analysis and teaching style analysis and that's made me reflect quite a lot. And, you know, he totally shaped who I became then as a head myself and he died when I took up my first headship. He died two days before we were meant to have lunch, but he died of an illness. But I still have his email congratulating me to say that he was very proud. And I did say to him, you know, I am where I am, because you made me who I am. So that's, that's the one guy. And the other guy was another head when I was living in Sheffield, and his name is David Conway. And I was the deputy head there. And he was the head teacher, he had a very interesting background is he was an ex military guy. So very process and systems driven, but also very flexible. And me at that point in my career, I was quite not stubborn, but I wanted to go one way, you know, I always said, well, A will take me there. So it will be B and he taught me a good lesson. He said to me, you can get there taking different routes. It doesn't matter which one you take, you know, and we had some really big discussions on this one, because I know I can be I could be quite stubborn. And I wanted to do it my own way at that point. But actually, he he kind of proved to me in a very gentle way that a, it's okay to choose a different road, at some point on the journey, that providing you get to where you want to be, it's okay to yeah, to take a different road. And that stayed with me forever. Because that was about the strategy. And he was absolutely right. And the school did very well. And he's an amazing guy, I have to say he's retired now. But he's amazing. I hope he's listening, I will tell him to listen, because you know, credit to him. And I have used what he taught me when I was ahead. And, and I've also used it as a business woman. And for example, if I really want to work with a client, I will try different way to get to work with that client. So yeah, so that's how I am inspired by, by people.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>There's loads of lessons in there. Those two stories. I love it. Because I think everyone, I was listening intently. And I just thought there's so many kind of takeaways there. The people that maybe are in leadership positions themselves. So going back to this story about Derek, which I actually had a tear in my eye at the end. You said that he he had a clear vision, he had a clear strategy. And he chose the right people. And I think, tell me a bit more about choosing the right people. How do you make sure that you choose the right people for your team?<br><br></div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>That's a very good question. And I think it's not always about it's not about qualification, always. And it's not always about experience. And sometimes it can be about intuition. Let me share something with you. I was in my first headship and the school that I had taken over me immediately needed to change. And I was appointing a number of staff, particularly in English, maths and science. And I needed some heads of department. And we&nbsp; interviewed a number of candidates on that day, and fairly, fairly early on in their career types of candidates. And great, and I just felt that they were the right people to be put in a leadership position. So I had three people where I thought, you know, my little voice inside me standing, it's telling me to offer them the post of head of department, yet they're only NQT, so they've just finished university. They've got no experience, really, of working, you know, full time, no experience of leading a team, but they've just got that tremendous potential. So I appointed them. And I remember my colleagues who were head teachers, and you know, in the region in Hampshire, they said to me, have you gone mad to appoint people with no experience? And I said, No, I appointed them on their potential. And I know that they're amazing. They just got to be given the opportunity to be amazing. And they will shine and I will make them shine. You know, radiance is one of my values very strong, right. So here we were. They were amazing, they delivered. They were totally I think when I got them that they were appointed, and then they were appointed as head of department, I think they have to sit down here. They said, well, we didn't come for that. But actually they were, they were amazing, they're delivered. And, and they took the, to each of them to their own department and their own people to a really nice place in terms of learning and in terms of outcomes in terms of success for the children. And so, so to me, that's, that's how we can we can appoint people. Yeah, I mean, you know, qualifications and experience, is nice, but he's more than that. And, and I've often reflected recently, on your intuition, how do you use your intuition when you know, something's right, but on paper, it doesn't quite look like that, right? Because you have the criteria. And, but there's more to that. And if you feel at times that actually, you know, those people have tremendous potential. And you have to think, you know, the future of the organisation, what they can bring, and how you can shape them and there is all, leadership succession, because you yourself will not be there forever. So when you make an appointment, you have to think, and you have to think about your risk assessment as well, you know, so if this one isn't, isn't staying, who will be in the in his place, and you know, it's a bit like the domino effect. And I was very keen to put that in place. Very, very early on in a school, and I think I think history has proven that I was right to do that. And I'm very proud. I mean, they're, they're still there. And they're, they're amazing, absolutely amazing people.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>I'm really fascinated by this use of intuition. And but part of me thinks in my mind, was it was there a little bit of a factor of Nadine had been working in schools for a number of years, I've met other head teachers, I have a good friend, that's a head teacher, actually. And he seems to have this knack of being able to identify very quickly, what kind of character you're dealing with. And I just thought is it because the exposure to so many people and throughout their lives, you know, this when you're seeing so many people go through their kind of development? Is that why you hone your intuition, and therefore you get to the headship, and you kind of already know, by meeting someone quite quickly, do you think there's a factor there?<br><br></div><div><strong>Nadine&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>I think it is, but but also, I think it would be fair to say that sometimes you can make mistakes, right? And I have made mistakes, I mean, you know, there might have been one or two appointments where I saw actually, you know, maybe hear it, the person didn't quite deliver for a number of reasons. But I think generally speaking, by, you know, but by having an experience of working with people of knowing what you want, and on discovering what people can bring to the table, and, but also always looking at their potential, because there is the now, and there is the constant, evolving situation of what you will need in the future. So they may have a skill that you don't need now, but actually, you know, because of the strategy plan, you know, that in a few years time, you may need that. And actually, because now we live in a world where what we thought would be five years time is probably now or never, you know, in some instances, the plan hasn't worked, then, you know, some of us have discovered talents that perhaps we didn't know we had. And, and same with the people that you appoint, you know, when you tell them that you've noticed that they've got a particular talent, sometimes they don't know themselves that they have, it's just you, you've noticed that because you've asked them certain questions, you know, they might have done a task as part of the interview, and you're cross referencing everything and triangulating everything. And then it's like drawing a picture, you know, you you get, you get a clear picture of what the person is about. And I've used psychometric tests as well in the past. And I think we've got to be careful with those. I did a LinkedIn post on that, actually. And there were quite a lot of people feeding back saying, you've got to be careful with it. And I agree, actually, because because this is a snapshot at a moment in time, it doesn't mean that you will always be like that. But for me, it was just a little hint of what was possible at a specific time. And did it make a big, did it have a huge impact in my decision, you know, no, but I I took it into consideration as well. So it's about the person and it's about how the person is how the person is interacting. And you know, I think when you mix people you know, like you organise coffee time when you've got an you know, and you call different people to talk and, and you observe people and that's quite fascinating as well. So, I think it's a mixture that is, that is such that you know that that person is probably the best one?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>You said something as well, which I thought again, was very telling is you kept saying, you know, making them shine, you know, helping them, empowering them. And it kind of drew me back to the story you said with Derek, when he called his leadership team together and said, You know, I'm prepared to invest in you, I trust you, I'm, I'm gonna back you if you want to go out and bring something back, which I think was a super smart move, you know, because ultimately, he was going to benefit from those learnings. But he was taking a gamble and also look at look at the the, the effect that's have had, it's almost like you've got more loyalty towards him, you've got more trust, and bonding. So do you think that that's a factor in leadership qualities? Do you see that successful leaders empower, you know, shine the light on and provide that kind of environment?<br><br></div><div><strong>Nadine&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>I think it's important, I think it's a balance, isn't it, because you, you, you still have to lead and particularly now, you know, in a time where we are, I mean, employees, they want to see their leader, you know, navigating that crisis, so they want to see somebody who is leading, but you're the one to empower your staff, because if you end up micromanaging things, then you're becoming operational yourself, you know, so you need to be in the helicopter, and keeping that view. And if you've put people in the right place, then there is no need to micromanage you know, people can be in power, and, and can deliver. Now, one of the things that I love doing was my one to one meeting with my staff, I just loved that, and I would not miss them. And, and I remember&nbsp; my senior leadership team telling me, you know, doing the one to one meeting with us kind of worse than Ofsted coming in, because of because of the questions that I that they would ask and, and they will not always question about, you know, the performance. So, but I remember asking questions. So you know, we've got the values for the school. So how are you demonstrating the values every day into your daily job, right? I used to be same as you and I, Jenny, we have values for business. I mean, my values they, they drive my business, you know, I said, I like I like radiance. I mean, radiance is important for me, I like to make people shine, you've been a guest on my podcast, I hope to invite you to my LinkedIn live. And it's important for me to where there is talent to make people shine. And you're the expert in your field, Jenny, I'm not at all I mean, you know, I am, I am watching you, I could never do what you're doing. You're very, very unique, very expert in it. And I think it's nice to recognise people's talent, and to put them on stage and to make them shine. And to applaud, you know, and to say, Well, good for you, because you work very hard. So you deserve to be very successful as you are Jenny. And so that's kind of how I see things.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>And going back to this tip, you've given some sort of such good tips. I think if leaders are taking note of these different things, you mentioned, how important one to ones are. And I believe that they are to, you know, do you have any practical guidance for a leader that perhaps is thinking? Or how often should I be having those one to ones, you know, what should be the nature of the one to ones? How far to the one to ones extend beyond my immediate sort of direct reports? Have you got any thoughts?<br><br></div><div><strong>Nadine&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>I could talk to you for hours on one to one.&nbsp; Well, I would say that, I think it depends on the organisation and on the people that you're line managing. I mean, I was seeing my SLT, you know, every week, but that was the context of, you know, when I was working with the clients that I am working with, because they are leaders, they are managing teams, and they tend to have one to one meeting once a month, I think my advice would be, put them in the calendar and make sure that they happen. There should be no excuse, you know, that should never be cancelled. And it's very easy to cancel them, right, because things are happening. So you think, well, I don't need to meet John, you know, he'll be alright. He'll be plodding on. But actually, everybody needs a one to one on a regular basis, to just you know, check what's been you know, what's been achieved and celebrate that and the support that you can you can offer as well, the perspective that you can offer. And I mean, for me, it's all about the conversation. With your team, because it's it's all very well saying, Well, you know, they're all in their role. So everybody is in the right seat. Well, that's okay, up to a point, because life is testing, you know, challenging. And people need support at some point, we all need support at some point, right. But we also need praise. I think that's very important. And it's very difficult at the moment to praise people, because you're on Zoom, you know, is 50 people. And so I think having the one to one and being able to pinpoint where people have done extremely well, and to explain to them, actually, it's not only saying, you know, well done, okay, it's explaining the why, why is it the well done? It's also explaining, okay, so how can we move that further? What can I do to help you? And I think all of that is really important. It's also easy for people sometimes to, to talk and say, yeah, I'm on course, with that, you know, it's fine, I've taken care of that. And, but you, you do want to see, you do want to know, because you have to triangulate and make sure that actually your plan has been delivered, right? The plan of the organisation needs to be delivered. It's not that people don't trust people, just it's nice to see things. I was talking to one of my clients recently, and she said to me, I don't doubt what my team is doing. But I quite like to see what they're doing, you know, in their one to a meeting, is that bad? Nadine, does that make me a very operational leader? And I said, No, I think there is nothing wrong with, you know, asking, so what does it look like? You mean, show me, you know, and everybody can bring something to the table. So you can add a little, you know, observation or perspective. And so I think I think those one to one are very, very precious. And they are difficult things at the moment, Jenny, because, you know, I mean, we're now a year into into COVID. And, and I'm coming to the difficult conversations now. Right. And in the first part of COVID, people would would hesitate at having kind of what they called difficult conversations. So where wedisagree on one thing, right? People would, would not speak really about the performance, because it's quite hard to tell somebody that you're not quite happy with the performance. Well, a year into COVID, you have to have those discussions now. And some of my clients have been really struggling, because they said to me, you know, face to face is bad enough, having having those conversations. Now I'm having to do that on Zoom. You know, my colleague is crying. Had she been in my office, I would have known what to do I'm on Zoom. I know that in 10 minutes, I've got a next meeting starting. So I think I think now we're having to navigate even more how to handle those conversations so that we can have them right, we need to have them. And they don't have to be difficult. We make them difficult because of our perception, our mindset. They don't have to be difficult, but they do need to happen. And for the sake of people as well, because, you know, there are many people out there who who need the support. I mean, people are exhausted, right, we're certainly back in January, you've probably have heard, I've heard, you know, my clients are saying, I'm exhausted. And it's week three, and I've got a year in front of me. And I'm not allowed to take holidays until May, and I don't know how I'm going to survive. So we're talking a lot about resilience. I'm doing a LinkedIn live on that this weekend, again. So it's about how you can you can help people have the conversation and how you can, how they can learn to use their strengths more, because we all have strengths, right? But it's just knowing what they are when.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>If someone's listening to this thinking, Oh, my goodness, oh, my goodness, she's she's talking to me because I have got to have a difficult conversation. And perhaps they're thinking, I've been avoiding it just as she said, You know, it's it's something that I don't want to have, and it's awkward on Zoom. Any you said mindset you said using your strengths, any other guidance or tips that you could provide to someone who either to prepare or actually have the conversation?<br><br></div><div><strong>Nadine&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Well, I think the first thing is, the first thing is to prepare that conversation and particularly when it's when it's a difficult conversation and it can be a difficult conversation around what, around relationships with people because even on zoom, you know it's quite tricky at times. And personality clashes yeah, can be about performance at the moment. There are a lot of things companies who are doing their, their kind of closing their performance review. It can be&nbsp; about that. And it can also be Jenny about grief and loss. Because at the moment, there are many companies who have gone through a period of change. And people have gone, right people have taken early retirement, they've gone to other companies, you know, some senior experts have left the companies, there is a vacant seat. And for those who are staying, actually, this is quite hard. So there is a sense of grief and loss. So that's a difficult conversation when you, you know, when you're the new plus two, and you come in, right with all of your ideas, and but you have people who are suffering from from a loss, because actually, they liked their previous plus two, and they don't know you. And so that's another kind of difficult conversation. And there is also the difficult conversation with yourself, as you know, right? And can I can I, can I have that difficult conversation? Or am I starting to doubt myself? And you go, No, no, come on, you can do that. Right? You can do that. So how do you do go about it? So yeah, preparing the conversation, you have to prepare the conversation, there are specific ways in which you can prepare them. Absolutely. But the thing is, don't over prepare, because sometimes people don't respond in the way that you had anticipating. anticipated. So so you have to prepare to an extent, but most importantly, what is it that you want to get out of the conversation? You know, it's a bit like you go to a supermarket, and you think, Okay, so what am I going to put in my trolley? And how much do I want to spend? Right? Well, it is a little bit like that. Because you have to measure that you're going to be doing it online. So it's quite different. You don't have people on a face to face, you're going to have to make sure that you read them properly, you know, you're going to have to think about the language that you're using and what kind of stakeholder it is. The questions that you're going to be asking, and, you know, how do you how do you have that conversation where people can talk to you in a safe environment? So how do you how do you create that safe environment so that people can open up and say, yeah, you know, I'm sorry, but I know I've not met my targets and I've got four kids, I've got to homeschool. It's been a nightmare. And I don't have the room to work. And so yeah, I've not met my target. And then people can become quite emotional. Because you see, we don't always know everything of people's life. I mean, you know, people will have luggage, right, we will have a breaking point. And people are tested at the moment. So it's also Well, how do you respond to that? I mean, you know, we've got to be human, there's some people for whom at the moment, it's very testing. And, you know, not everybody has a house and a nice garden. And, you know, not everybody has that, people have to homeschool children, they have to do a full time job, they have to cook. And you know, they probably have parents that are in a home or you know, unwell. And so it's a bit like what I was saying at the beginning, where we're, we're wearing different hats. And so it's also about having empathy. And that doesn't mean that you accept the poor performance or you know, but it means that you change the conversation, and you put some, you show empathy, compassion, and, and you put some support in place, you do whatever you can do to support those people. But I was listening on on LinkedIn, there was a good conversation this week, actually, to a leader. And she said, Well, I'm doing everything for my team, I will do everything I can for my team. And so that's great, right, but I did respond in the post. And I said, that's great, Sarah, it's brilliant. But what are you doing for yourself? You know, because you're typically we all have a breaking point. And we've all been there, right? I mean, if people tell me, I've never had the breaking, you know, I've always been great. And in my career, I don't really believe that. I think there is always a point in your career where things are challenging and tough. I've been through that as well. You know, and how do you look after yourself? And where do you get the strength to keep going? You know, because because it's a bit like a car, you haven't got any petrol can go anywhere. So So, I think finding your strengths and finding what keeps you going is really key to have the courage to have those conversations that are constructive, that are courageous conversations, where at the end, you don't have people who are left emotionally, a wreck or you know, low are in tears, and I think we have a sense duty of care. I think that's really important. And I've always spoken about that, you know, the duty of care for people, no matter what you do. And so this is why I spend a lot of time talking to my clients about Okay, so how are you going to turn that difficult conversation into a courageous conversation, right? And what do you want to achieve? And then let's work backwards. And, you know, what works for one person may not work for the others, I mean, we're all very different, we all have very different DNA. And we'll Yeah, we're all very different. So there is not, there may be a kind of framework, but then you have to use it in the way that it works for you, in the way that you feel confident about it. Because people are opposite you, you know, when they are seeing you on Zoom, they're gonna see that you're not authentic. And, and it's all it's important to be to be yourself, and to be in agreement with what you're saying, you know, to be authentic, I think is really, really important. And to understand that, you know, everybody's trying to do their best at the moment. And the best at the moment may not be, you know, the top performance, but actually, we talk about surviving, you know, and people say, Yeah, but we can thrive as well. Yeah, sure, we can, right, but let's, let's help people, and let's see what we can do. And I see a lot of organisations and leaders trying to do their best, you know, and, and do things that probably they would never have done before. But they go the extra mile, because we're all being challenged to do things differently, and things for which we've not been prepared. We've not studied, I mean, you and I, Jenny, we've not studied at all, you know, leading in a crisis, like the one we are at the moment, despite all the qualifications that we have. So we're not improvising, but we're evolving to navigate the crisis and, and it's challenging for a leader. But you know, there are some amazing people out there who are doing it and credit to them.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>I think there's some great nuggets there. I mean, having a level of self awareness for a start being really prepared for your, your difficult conversation, planning out what the outcome, the ideal outcome would be, but not being too rigid. Having bags of energy, empathy, sorry, asking the right questions, having, you know, considered their circumstances, have that in mind. And also considering their personality and their style and their communication style. And being authentic with how you come across, you know, be be real, don't try to be someone else or conduct the meeting or the conversation in another way other than really yourself. And honesty is coming through there. I think this is, that's great tips. Tell me, do you think having difficult conversations with your employees, like as a leader? Do you think there's anything different if you're having a manager, you're managing a difficult conversation with the client? Do you think the skills are fundamentally the same? Or do you think there's any differences?<br><br></div><div><strong>Nadine&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>I think you I mean, I think it's a little bit different, because you don't line manage your client, to some extent, right? It's a different relationship on that level, they don't work for the company, they work with the company. So I think it's a different relationship, you also have a lot to lose with your clients. Because if they, if they walk away from a contract, and you know, you, you have a bit of a problem there. So I think it's, I think it's a different relationship. But I think that the, the strategy that you use to have a conversation can be can be the same. You know, when you analyse a conversation, I'm doing a lot of work at the moment on that Jenny. On analysing conversations and what they are made of, right. You would still ask questions. So&nbsp; it's about looking at type, the types of questions that you're asking, looking at the type of language that you are using, and looking at the reciprocity in the conversation. And whether it's a colleague or a client, you do that anyway. Right? If you're a great leader, you do that anyway. And looking at the interaction, so is it me who is talking on me or am I inviting? Is there an invitation or am I just talking over all the time, and you know, the intonation, the pace at which you are talking the choice of words that you're using, you know, the silence because people need time to think and process at the moment. The respect that you are showing, I mean, all of that, whether it's a client or an employee for me, they are kind of the same pointers, right? Just need to use them very, very differently. And this is why I'm spending more time looking at the quality of the conversations. It's not about the lens, right, you can have a 10 minutes. And it's a very powerful conversation, you can have a half an hour conversation, and it totally destroys a relationship. So it comes back to who you are, and how self aware of your own practice you have when you are having a conversation. And I have often wondered if I was in because sometimes people are missing? Well, here we go again, Nadine is going about the conversation analysis, you know. And I'm wondering if it's because I'm bilingual, so I'm kind of navigating two languages at the same time, I'm a linguist. So my favourite tool is you and I have discussed that before as the thesaurus is a very important tool for me. You know, so I've often wondered if I'm putting more emphasis on those than you know, other people, I don't think I am actually because I've done some research on conversation analysis, and it does exist, I'm not the only one to do it. I mean, many people have done it. But it's just that when you're aware of that, and those pointers, then you can, you can do it in a better way. Because you are reflecting on how you're doing it. But somebody needs to show you, this is why having a coach or you know, somebody needs to point that out to you.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>I this is so funny that we're having this conversation, and I'm so glad you steered the conversation in this way. Because when I train account managers, how to grow existing accounts, we talk about conversations, they're completely different conversation. They're not necessarily difficult, they're more expansive. And I often say it's not what you say it's how you say it. Because, you know, you could say or Let's ask for a referral. And a client might say to me, Well, I've asked, but hang on a minute, how did you ask, give me the context? And what was the intonation? How? So I love this? And do you think rehearsal is a an important factor of preparation? But what about rehearsal? Or do you think that makes it too staged?<br><br></div><div><strong>Nadine&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>I've actually done some work on that, because there is a school of thought that says, rehearsal are never true conversation. Because they are predictable, right? Because you come and you know, it's a rehearsal. It's kind of a roleplay. It's a simulation. I actually disagree with that. And I filmed three conversations recently, that were a simulation for one of the training that I'm doing online. And it was very authentic, you know, the script. There was a, there was a an overall context of the situation. And then the actors went, we just went with the conversation. And I think that that simulation enabled observers to grasp the good points or the strengths of the conversation, but also, what could be improved for the future for them. And so I think simulations has a place where it needs to be the right one, I think it has a place and you know, as a linguist, I would say that I mean, I've learned English doing role plays, right? So without roleplays, I wouldn't be able to speak as a as as I do now. And, you know, and children learn by modelling by repeating, you know, so I think I think they do for me, my school of thinking the Powrie School of thinking will be that simulations are helping, there is no doubt.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Clearly, you're an expert in this space. And I'm looking at the time I just want to be conscious of time knitting, so know how busy you are no thinking, I would love to kind of for you to tell us a bit more about your programme that you have for managing difficult conversations and also your leadership programme that you have. So can you tell us like typically, what kind of clients go through this programme? And, and who, who would you like most to, to work with?<br><br></div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Okay, so so if I say to you that my clients are leaders who are working around the world, and they lead teams, multi cultural teams, and&nbsp; they are all going through a period of change, that they're all having to have some conversations at some points that are what they perceive to be difficult conversations, but what are in effect courageous conversations? So I have 20 different courses, modules that you can choose different topics because what I did,&nbsp; a year ago is I did a market survey on what were the main conversations that were difficult for people. I did that on LinkedIn. And then they came, people responded to me came up with all kinds of topics, I did some research as well, with CIPD,&nbsp; Harvard University, so I came up with 17 topics, and then I added three more. And the three more were about leading teams virtually, because actually, that can be quite difficult as well. So I've got 17 on very specific topics like performance management, personality clashes, pay, diversity, you know, you just name it, you just need to go onto my website, Nadinepowrie.com. And you will see where they are. And I've got three on leading teams virtually, where I've got business simulations, where people can actually see a real one to one meeting happening. And they're able to study and observe and learn from it. And, yes, and the leadership and the leadership, executive coaching, this is&nbsp; more bespoke to some extent, I don't have a programme search, because it's bespoke for whoever comes and say this is what we want. So I tailor it for people, I don't believe that coaching is just looks like this. Right? I think it's very specific to each individual. And, yeah, everybody has their own DNA. So I'll put a DNA on each of them. So that's kind of how I work. And I can do that in English. And I can do that in French.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Wow. Honestly, that sounds so valuable. Thank you so much for sharing. And we'll include the link in, in the podcast notes. And, Nadine, do you have any final words of wisdom? For anyone listening that thinks&nbsp; I've got to&nbsp; manage, I've got to manage a difficult conversation? Or, you know, I feel that I need some help with my leadership, any kind of words of wisdom that you'd like to leave, leave us with?<br><br></div><div><strong>Nadine&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>I think I would say, think about the opportunity that this conversation could give you. Which is, you know, it doesn't come from me. So let's be clear, right. I had a coach when I was ahead. And and she was actually on my LinkedIn live last Friday. And one of the questions that she kept asking me, when when I was struggling with some challenges, right, and some difficult conversations coming my way. She always asked me that question. So what opportunities is that giving you, and at the time I felt, well, that's not giving me any opportunity, but to be stressed, and really worried. And actually, she was right to ask me that, because it did give me a lot of opportunities. And you know, many of those were very positive. And, you know, one of them is to build relationships with people. And so that would be what I would leave you with Jenny.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Thank you. That's a fantastic reframe. And a nice, perfect point to leave it there with so Nadine, thank you so much for sharing so much value, and so many stories, and it's been rich with nuggets of wisdom and also tips. So thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it.<br><br></div><div><strong>Nadine &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>Thank you, Jenny, for having me. Thank you so much.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div>It's a pleasure.<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2021 14:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/nwzrp74w.mp3" length="52438120" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/75a70e50-5bf1-11eb-9804-5114dee7a42e/75a70fc0-5bf1-11eb-8fcb-95ed9765e7e2.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2621</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>This episode is for you if you're an agency leader or you're managing a team. 

My guest is a good friend of mine Nadine Powrie who is an executive leadership coach and workplace mediator who specialises in helping people have difficult conversations.

Nadine has helped hundreds of people enhance their leadership ability through her coaching and training. and is an expert in her field. Her podcast "Leading the Coaching Change" is currently celebrating its 80th episode and she has a weekly LinkedIn live session with other leadership coaches where they discuss topics that are relevant to those who want to develop their skills and keep abreast of changes in their field.

In this chat, Nadine shares her thoughts and insights into:

* What makes an exceptional leader
* How two leaders in her career made a lasting impact on her life (and what you can learn from it)
* Why having a clear vision, strategy and values defined are so key to being a successful leader
* The surprising truth about hiring the right people for your team
* How to set yourself up for success before having a difficult conversation

I could have discussed these topics with Nadine all day as she has a wealth of experience and knowledge and I'd like to invite her back to share some more tips with the account management community.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>This episode is for you if you're an agency leader or you're managing a team. 

My guest is a good friend of mine Nadine Powrie who is an executive leadership coach and workplace mediator who specialises in helping people have difficult conversations.

Nadine has helped hundreds of people enhance their leadership ability through her coaching and training. and is an expert in her field. Her podcast "Leading the Coaching Change" is currently celebrating its 80th episode and she has a weekly LinkedIn live session with other leadership coaches where they discuss topics that are relevant to those who want to develop their skills and keep abreast of changes in their field.

In this chat, Nadine shares her thoughts and insights into:

* What makes an exceptional leader
* How two leaders in her career made a lasting impact on her life (and what you can learn from it)
* Why having a clear vision, strategy and values defined are so key to being a successful leader
* The surprising truth about hiring the right people for your team
* How to set yourself up for success before having a difficult conversation

I could have discussed these topics with Nadine all day as she has a wealth of experience and knowledge and I'd like to invite her back to share some more tips with the account management community.</itunes:subtitle>
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    <item>
      <title>How to be a great agency account director, with Sarah Deakin &amp; Ruby Beagan</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/1n211538</link>
      <itunes:title>How to be a great agency account director, with Sarah Deakin &amp; Ruby Beagan</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>14</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
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      <description>This episode is particularly useful for you if you are working as account manager in a creative agency and aspire to be an account director.

It's also useful if you're already an agency account director and are looking for some ideas and learnings from other account directors in the creative industry to apply in your role.

Sarah Deakin and Ruby Beagan are account directors for Thursday Studio, an insight-led design studio in Winchester.

The reason I invited them on to the show is to share their day to day experience of what it's like in the role of account director in a creative agency.

During this interview, they share:

* What they believe is the value the account management role brings to an agency and its clients
* Difference between the account manager and account director role
* Examples of where they've made a difference to the client's business
* Their thoughts on why clients stay with agencies for the long term
* Their approach to client retention and growth
* The challenges those in account management are facing right now with remote working and some ideas for how to overcome them
* Advice for others in agency client service who want to improve their account management skills and accelerate their career
* The key areas account directors should be focussing on in their role

....and lots more nuggets of wisdom.

Enjoy.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Transcript:<br>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>So today on the show, I'm really excited about chatting to Sarah Deakin and Ruby Beagan. They're both from Thursday, which is a creative agency. And they're both account directors. And the reason I invited them on is because they're very impressive account directors, I believe that they do a lot of account directorship really, really well. Some of those things that I've seen and watch them do is being really consultative with their clients. I think they show up and they ask the right questions in meetings, they also bring their clients fresh ideas, new thinking, insights and trends. And generally, they're adding value to every interaction. And they're very commercially astute. Apart from all of that they're also very energetic and engaging. And they're part of my sort of inner circle of account directors that I want to be around, because I learn a lot from them. And what I've also observed from both of these girls, is the fact that they're always open to new ideas, they're humble enough to know they don't know everything, they approach challenges with a real sort of resilience and a thirst for knowledge. So, I love being around them. And that's one of the reasons I wanted them to come on. Because I'm sure there's a lot of either account managers looking to step up to account director or account directors that are looking for other ideas from other agencies. So I see this interview as a bit of an exchange of information. So I'm gonna pass over to maybe I could start with Sarah, and just tell us a bit about you, Sarah, your role at Thursday, how you got into account management, and kind of what you do on a day to day basis.<br><br></div><div>Sarah:&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>So I'm an account director at Thursday. So we're about the 20 strong inside lead design studio in Winchester, I was previously, my previous role was with an agency called Skyline, which was a slightly smaller agency. And we were sort of specialised in really short lead times, we were very reactive agency worked incredibly closely with our clients, you know, they pick up the phone to us, and we try and turn things around super quickly. So very relationship focused role at Skyline. And then, about a year and a half ago, perhaps two years ago, Thursday acquired Skyline and Thursday are much more kind of insight led and strategic in their culture. So the merge with Thursday brought about a company which was an agency, which was much more kind of sort of full service agency. And that's where we are now.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>Amazing. Thanks, Sarah. What about you, Ruby?<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>Hello, thank you. I'm Ruby Beagan. And I am one of the, alongside Sarah, one of the account directors at Thursday, which is a design studio based in Winchester. At Thursday, we use design to explore our client's problems. And we have a real focus on clarity. And it was only this morning, actually, that I had a client say to me, oh, it now makes sense. And it's those sorts of moments that we were really after. So that's kind of what gets us up in the morning. I started my account management journey five years ago, and I think, probably with quite a lot of people within Client Services, I fell into it. It's not really the kind of career that you get told about school, it's not really kind of on your radar from a young age. You know, it's usually a vets, or, in my case, I think I wanted to be a midwife, but my biology teacher told me to take a different route. So that ended that dream. But yeah, so I kind of left uni, panicked, got a call centre job, because it was kind of like, oh, I'm out of education, straight into job, didn't wanna sort of take that gap year, did it for six months, hated it, and then looked into kind of pursuing a career in Client Services.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>Wow. But Client Services in agencies or client services, it could be anywhere because presumably, in the call centre, you've got quite a lot, you got used to speaking to people all the time, which is part of our role, isn't it?<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>Yeah. So from the call centre, I went to a letting agents, so kind of did all that customer service side of things and management of properties. And then from that, that was a leap into agency.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>Amazing. Well, thank you both so much. Sarah, can I ask you a question? We recently there's been a lot of debate about what value the role of an account manager or account director actually brings. So would you mind just sharing your view on what you believe account management actually brings to the party to both agencies and clients?<br><br></div><div>Sarah:<br><br></div><div>Yeah, well, I think we, from a client's point of view, we're acting as that liaison between themselves and the agency. So we've got this really good view of both worlds. So we put ourselves in the world of the client, we learn about what they do, what the industry is doing. And then we you know, we know like the back of our hand what, you know, how the agency runs and the strategic side of, you know, what value we can deliver. So it's just about kind of maximising those opportunities, making sure that we're delivering to the best of our ability.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>I think you're right, I mean, I've seen particularly you Sarah being really as I said in the intro, very consultative with your clients really getting under the skin of their businesses, finding about what challenges they have, their pain points and bringing solutions that don't always necessarily fall in the remit of the services you provide at Studio, at the Thursday studio. So I think you're absolutely right. You really sort of play this Ambassador role. What about you, Ruby? Is there anything else you can add to that?<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>Yeah, I totally agree with Sarah, we, you know, Client Services, value added for the agency with definitely the hub, we kind of bring everything together, we are, we are the glue. And I am including project management when I sort of mentioned that, but I do think account management, we have the deepest understanding of our clients businesses, the ways they like to work, their expectations. We also know the pressures they're under, the stakeholder management, what they need to be able to do their job well. And I think we, within our agency, we represent our client, and sometimes fiercely, you know, we have resourcing meetings where people are trying to take away our resource and we protect our clients, you know, we fiercely, like, no, it needs to be done. We're managing expectations. So I think agency side where we're that hub, and then client side, like Sarah said, I think we're, we're an extension of their team, we have that crucial, outsider's point of view, but we're also an extra brain or an extra pair of hands for them on their day to day stuff. And we don't sort of just say yes to all their requests, we make sure we challenge them with consideration to make sure that all the solutions that we're giving them are meeting their problems and overcoming them hurdles, so that we sort of understand not just the current day problems, but also keeping in mind the bigger picture, like you said.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>It's a really, really good point. Actually, there was a study done by Gartner last year, and I shared that insight with you and I thought is really, really insightful because the study was among 700, B2B organisations. And they were asking the question about why do the company, why don't you grow at the company, and they've realised that account management, if they go above and beyond in terms of service, they will only reach a level of retain, they'll retain the account. But in order to go beyond that, and actually grow that account, they have to have what they call customer improvement conversations with their clients. And that's where you are being more critical, you are being more challenging, you are delivering more insight and really stretching the client. So I love that you brought that up Ruby. The other thing that you just said that I would love you to sort of go into a bit more detail about is in your agency, you separate the PM function, the project management function from the account management function. Now, with my other clients, they, they don't make that separation. So effectively, that one person is doing both roles. Can you talk to me a little bit about how that works for you, and also what you believe kind of the fors and againsts?&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>Hmm, definitely. So I've been in an agency that does both one where it was a jewel role, and I was kind of director and PMing. And then in other agencies where the roles are separate. And I think that, you know, it is separate to an extent, Sarah, and I very much still know what's happening in our projects. But splitting it out means that Lucy, our project manager Lucy is able to work on the day to day stuff. So the timelines requiring information and content and kind of all of that information and making sure that all the cogs are turning correctly. And then it allows Sarah and myself to kind of come in above that, although we have full knowledge of the day to day, we're able to grow that client account, we're able to talk to them strategically, because they don't always want to talk to us about the day to day. We're able to kind of pause that and get them to look forward, which is which is a massive benefit of having that split role. It also means if you're navigating some of the trickier situations and conversations you're able to say, Oh, hang on, let me take that back to my project manager. And I can come back to you on that. And it kind of you don't have, feel that you sort of put on the spot, you know of what date is this going to be delivered? Or can we bring this in sooner, kind of some of those time concerning questions. So I think it does help in having that other person and then doing a joint role, I've done that as well. And similarly you kind of you just navigate around it, it is just a little bit harder to get the headspace to think strategically and think about the bigger picture because you are more bogged down in the day to day.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>That's exactly what I hear a lot. And it's interesting you said earlier on that it kind of separates you from the delivery. So if the project isn't going to time or to budget for whatever reason, does that mean you don't have to have those conversations with the client if something's going you know, haywire, who actually does have that conversation because, you know, we know there's always challenges particularly with tight deadlines and things. So what actually happens in in sort of the day to day running?<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>I think scenarios when a project is kind of needing that additional level of support, we, Sarah and I, definitely do get involved and having that conversation and kind of, but being on the client side, sometimes project managers are more on the agency side, on the basis that they're seeing all the numbers and times and, and are very realistic whereas account management, you can kind of be like, Okay, well, let me see what I can move around and, and be a little bit more accommodating in some, in some ways to just try and kind of soften that message. So I think we do definitely come in and help with the more difficult conversations when things are not working. But before we do that, we obviously worked with a project manager to kind of be like, so what, what's a compromise? What can I take to this conversation that says, Okay, we're not going to meet that. But we're going to do this, and we're going to do that. So it's kind of you're going in prepared, I think that is one of the most important things to those difficult conversations where you're about to deliver a little bit of bad news is having something good to kind of help them along their way as well.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>That's great tip. Thank you, Ruby, would you add anything to that Sarah, about the separation of the PM and the AM role?<br><br></div><div>Sarah:<br><br></div><div>Yeah, well, just that, you know, being able to move away from the conversation, and to really fully brief yourself on reasons why. If you know, if there are any problems or anything to overcome, it's just really good to be able to go to the team, I think just to go to the team and have a really good chat, you know, even sketch it out. Why has this not happened? Why is that? What's the blocker, so that you're really well briefed to be able to go back? Because sometimes, you know, I think we all have it, where we, you know, or one on one conversation doesn't quite hit the mark, you just need that little bit of backup, you need to revisit the timelines, the reasons, a lot of these projects are really complicated. And, you know, just having those simple conversations about what's coming in on track. And what is and isn't that simple. So it's just about being able to just have those conversations internally and then go back fully informed.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>I'm probably going a little bit too deep into this. But I know it's a topic of conversation that comes up a lot, the separation of the PM and AM role. So do you think in terms of a skill set that's required for the AM and the PM, the PM needs to be better versed in technical skills? Or do you think that it's really important for the aim to totally understand and maybe have done that role so that they equally are as proficient with the understanding of how a project works like that? What are your views on that? That’s a weird one, but just curious what you think?<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>The first agency I was at was very technical, and I kind of got catapulted into it, and had to learn the ropes quite quickly. And the project managers that were extremely technically advanced, and they were very, very good at their jobs. And actually, I probably didn't need to input technically. But having that knowledge and going to a job role really helped me. So I would definitely say if anyone is in Client Services, or looking to get into Client Services, understanding the technicalities, and even not just technicalities, I think the brand process photography, social media, I think if you can become your own expert within that area, I do think it really helps to have those conversations, and just your general understanding of knowing when things are going off on a different sort of par for and being able to have them conversations with your clients. I do think it helps.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>I think you're spot on there. And I think I tuned into an interview with Martin Sorrell yesterday and we were, he was, talking about the importance of keeping up to speed with what's happening. The industry in terms of marketing is changing all the time. I mean, digital technologies are available now that weren't available only few years ago. So I think it's also great that you have that ability to maybe spot what the trends are, you know, not just for the customers business, but clients business, but also for your industry and what's changing. So I think I think there's a real strong argument for separating those roles. And Sarah, can I just ask you, what do you believe the difference is, if any, of having an account manager role and account director role.<br><br></div><div>Sarah:<br><br></div><div>So I would say, an account manager, you know, essentially you are solving client problems, you're, you know, getting to the bottom of what needs to be done, and you're doing it, you're delivering it to budget on, you know, on time. With an account director, I just think that you're coming in at a more strategic level. So you're understanding that for the client's industry, you're ahead of the curve, hopefully, in that industry and knowing what's coming next, being able to advise on that level. So you're not just talking about the agency world anymore. You're talking about the client's world, and then marrying the two together and then you know, just being able to partner with them really, and they're thinking and thinking going forward to so you know, even looking next year, maybe even you know five years time you're looking ahead all the time and, you know, drawing observations from the industry.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>I think it's a really good point, actually. I interviewed a lady called Kate Whittaker, who is head of corporate communications for Dual Group, which is an insurance group. And she said that it was particularly beneficial for her to have an agency that was working with her that understood her market and her industry. But how do you stay on top? Like, how do you stay on top of what's happening in your clients industry?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Sarah:<br><br></div><div>For me,&nbsp; I just keep an eye on the news. I've got some Google Alerts set up that sort of thing. LinkedIn is really helpful, too, if you, you know, got the right channels set up on LinkedIn, and following, I think a really quick way is following my own clients and their competitors on LinkedIn, seeing what they're talking about, often they'll refer to an article about, talk about an event, or even events, we can go to events. But back when we could go to events, and just keep on top of it. And that's the really, really quick way of doing it actually, just tuning into what the clients talking about. But obviously, you want to bring something new to the table. So you want to be making sure that you're well versed in similar areas or with their competitors, or other areas. Yeah, so that would be, that would probably be the simplest way of doing it. At this point it’s interest, I think as well, just having a genuine interest. Because these industries really are interesting, they've got a lot, you know, that, particularly over the last 12 months, a lot has been happening in different markets. And it's really interesting, just paying attention to the changes, and being able to take those observations back to the clients.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>I love that you brought that up, actually, because I think you're right, LinkedIn is really, you know, you could be entering the conversation with your clients online, as well as offline. I think it's just another opportunity, as well as staying informed with what's going on in your clients, industry. Ruby, what about you? Would you add anything to that in terms of a the separation of the AM and AD role, but also operating at an AD level? Anything else?<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>Yeah, I would say that, personally, I think that leap from senior account manager to account director is one of the biggest and one that you should feel ready for. And, you know, I'd advise anyone that's in Client Services, not to rush through the ranks, you know, go from exec to account management to senior to AD and get an understanding at each level. Because once you are an account director or Client Services Director and managing a team, I think you need to have that empathy and understanding of all the levels to really kind of help manage your team. So firstly, I'd say don't, you know, rush through the ranks. And then I think the other sort of areas in my personal career that attributed to that step up was firstly, managing a team, that sort of day to day management, as well as creating their growth path and mapping out their commercial and client and personal based objectives, having those check ins and almost putting not your own career to one side, but acknowledging other people's as well. And being that person that's passionate and wanting them to be the best version of themselves and highlighting areas for improvement or kind of going back constantly going back to the objectives and saying, Where are we at with this one? Have we met that commercial target to do all of those things, I think, attributed to me becoming an account director. And then secondly, like Sarah said, I think it's having that additional layer to your client partnership. It's not just being firmly by their side, but with them at the forefront of their business, helping them drive it forward, taking in all of that insights from our industry, from their industry, and just making sure that you're kind of aligned with their not just current ambitions, but future ones as well.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>Very well said. What do you both feel about thought leadership? Because I always see that on LinkedIn, for example, I think it's the platform at the moment to be on, to enter the conversations with clients, but also to share your thoughts about what's changed in the market, maybe sharing what you know. Sarah mentioned earlier on about going to conferences and events and those insights that you pick up first-hand, how important do you think thought leadership is to for account management?<br><br></div><div>Sarah:<br><br></div><div>In order to demonstrate, as in us writing pieces? And, yeah, well, I think, yes, it's really important, it just is a change from the norm. And I think that's what people look for in an agency they're looking for, they're not just looking for people to do what they're telling them to do. They're looking for people to, to think differently, and to challenge what's been done. And obviously they call it, you know, just disrupting, and just new thinking, and that's what people that's, you know, above and beyond what a lot of agencies offer. So, um, and I think that draws people's attention to, to us as an agency.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>Really well said, thanks, Sarah. Ruby, can you give us some examples of where you think that account management has made or you yourself has made a difference to the bottom line of the client?<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>Yeah, of course. So I had a university approached us a few years ago with a brief to help drive Open Day attendees. And that was kind of the extent of the brief, it wasn't very deep. So we work closely with them to kind of build that solution and seamlessly allow users to engage with the university and book open days and the project KPIs were met. And that brief was fulfilled. But as part of the account management process, and being involved in the insights phase of that project, we did like a sort of a deep dive into everything. And we discovered there was a series of mundane tasks that staff were having to do manually. So we looked to overcome that as part of this project and automate those tasks, so that not only did it boost general morale, but it also empowered the team to spend more time on strategic partnerships, which had an amazing bottom, you know, effect on the client's bottom line. And it was a great example of how account management and insights, not only did we achieve the original brief, but we overcome other problems that they were not even aware of. And these were operational or internal engagement problems. So it was kind of a massive learning curve for me how account management and sitting there and questioning things and going down different avenues with the client to not just accept that the brief was to drive Open Day attendees, but delve in a little bit further, we overcame a much bigger issue than they thought and, you know, it was sort of a two prong approach. And they got the Open Day numbers up and they also improved internal efficiencies and morale. So it was a really great outcome that kind of demonstrates that, through design and development, you can kind of overcome a multitude of hurdles that you probably didn't even know, were there when writing the brief.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>I think that is such a super example of adding additional value to a client's business. And actually, the client presents a problem to you, but actually, is that the problem? Is it the only problem? What's the impact of that problem? And what else can we see that perhaps they're not seeing? So a couple of questions on this particular example? Because I think it's a great one. Do you find sometimes that clients are reluctant to share with you more information about their business, so that you can sort of lift the lid on what's happening? And how did you do it in that, in that instance.<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>So as part of all of our projects, we have an insights phase, where we kind of want to go in and do a deep dive in. And that is, you know, sold in from new business as part of our journey. And it's such a crucial part. And it's usually done through interviews with personnel in the team. So you kind of understand, so it's not just capturing all this information from the marketing manager or CTO or CMO, you're kind of broadening out to understand other people's views on the business problems or all that solution, you know, everyone knew we were working towards driving open days, and we're asking people's opinions on and understanding the workflow of delivering these open days, and these mundane series of tasks were completed manually, and what had to be done before the Open Day booking could be completed. And we sort of spoke to them about these tasks and how much time it was taking up. And we kind of built a little bit of a business case to really kind of explore this further with the client, which obviously, they saw the amount of time that was being put into these tasks, and realise that automating them would cause I think it was about 30% efficiencies.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>Wow. So if you hadn't have spoken to other people about the problem in the organisation, you may or may not have uncovered that insight. That's, that's brilliant. So that's a really good tip, as well as for other people listening, the person that brings you the problem, you know, think about how that how the problem is currently affecting other people get their views on what how they see the problem. And through that, you get the insight. I think that's a great example. Sarah, do you have any other examples of where you've added value to the bottom line of the client's business?<br><br></div><div>Sarah:<br><br></div><div>I've got some examples. But I just wanted to say that, you know, generally, at Thursday, that is the way we approach every problem with the insight phase. And I just think that, you know, as a general, without specific examples, I think we just, we, we take that approach each time, so a client will come to us very often a client will come to us and say I need a website, or I need a new, you know, an app or whatever it might be. And we always as a matter, of course, will sit down with them and actually analyse what they're asking us. Start again, you know, and just find out what the driver is behind that and what it is that they're trying to achieve. So we'll look at the objectives, we'll look at the goals, and then we go all the way back to the beginning and figure out if that really is the question, is it the website? Is it the brand where you know, so for example, somebody did come to us recently for a website, actually, it was a problem with the brand. So we have rebranded that company now and we're already looking at really exciting results from that. And then we will go on and do a website. It's those sorts of things as well. We were saying, you know, it's just about asking the questions. And we are, yeah, we’ve got lots of examples of companies that have come back to us and said, you know, you have made a direct impact on my bottom line through the projects that we've done with you. It’s exciting stuff.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny:&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>It really, really is. I'm so glad you're explaining this, because I think this is key really, to how we can add value, as, you know, as an industry as a role, and I suppose I kind of want to dive even deeper into it. But I think you've really explained that the key crux and I suppose I want to ask you the same question, Sarah, about is there ever any reluctance? You know how sometimes it's a character thing, isn't it? If your client comes to you, yeah, I just need a website, we'll just get on with it. I just made the decision. I always use the analogy of being a doctor diagnosing problems, we kind of have to ask loads of questions to really uncover all the symptoms, but sometimes people come and they're self diagnosed. Yeah, what the problem is, I've chosen my medicine, and I just need you to just write the prescription. Do you ever find that?<br><br></div><div>Sarah:<br><br></div><div>It does happen? And it's usually and again, you know, we're always going to have some conversations anyway, whether we explained that we need to sit down and really identify the issues.<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>I think it's probably particularly with existing clients, isn't it, Sarah, that we find that I think new clients are more than happy to go through the deep dive insights, but existing clients, once they've done that big brand and big website projects? And they're like, right, I need this and we go, right, let's delve into why you need that. And they're like, Oh, no, I just need, you know, they've been through the process. They're like, you know, enough about me. So there are times where you have to know your clients, I think, and you have to understand when they want to go through it, and not and Sarah and I, I mean, we definitely experience clients pushing back and saying, This is what I need, I just need that.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>That’s a really good point, actually, to separate it from brand new clients who are working with you for the first time and it makes sense. And then those ongoing relationships. So that's the reality, isn't it, Sarah? Are you gonna say something else?<br><br></div><div>Sarah:<br><br></div><div>Just often down to time restraint, and budgetary restraints with clients, if they feel like there are new requirements, and they need it done quickly, then yes, they often do come to us and say, right, forget asking any questions, let's just get this done. But we do, we do still try to as far as possible, even if it's reusing insight that we've done previously, you know, we will, we're reluctant really to kick off a project without any insight behind it. Because the end result is always so much better. When we've when you've got full visibility of what you're doing and why you're doing it.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>I suppose it's also explaining why you're digging in further, you know, typically, with our other clients, we’ve found in the past that, you know, going a little bit deeper into this area helps them and make it about them. So that's a really good point. Why do you think clients stay with agencies for a long time, because I know that you've got very loyal clients. And obviously testament to Simon Harmer, who I think’s created a really fantastic culture where you both feel very, you know, happy in your roles, energised, motivated, and it's a real sort of team vibe, which I think, you know, culturally, I think the agency has got it right. But why do you think clients stay with you for so long?<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>I think it's the continuous stream of sort of forward thinking ideas that are rooted in the knowledge of the clients business, as well as their industry is key for client retention. I think this married with the kind of trust that's built up over a period of time, from Simon, from the developers, from, you know, the creative, a lot of people in our agencies are, they're client facing, you know, most people are more than happy to kind of jump on a call or present. And I think that's, that's really lovely that our clients really get to know not just Sarah and I, and Simon, but also the wider team. And I think that's really nice. And I think that married with transparency on communications, as well as kind of well delivered services helps with all the client retention.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>Great points. What about you, Sarah? Anything to add to that?<br><br></div><div>Sarah:<br><br></div><div>Yeah, I think we are lucky with our team that just such a great bunch of people and we've got, again, you know, we're lucky with our culture and that we've got this incredibly supportive agency. So within the studio, as Ruby said, people jump on calls, they present, we all do things together and people our clients do know, the wider team. I just think we're supportive of each other and, we have a group meeting every morning and we can just say, you know, in that meeting, look, I need a bit of help over here. This is a you know, we've got a new delivery date over here. What can we do and I just find that people just come out of the woodwork and say, right, they roll up their sleeves and help with anything we need help with. So we get things done. So, you know, it's that accountability, you know, even the wider team, even the people that wouldn't necessarily in some agencies have been be client facing or have any real direction. accountability to a client. I think here, people do feel accountable, everybody feels accountable. And everybody feels that, you know, they've got this responsibility to deliver what we've said will deliver.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>I think this is huge. And you too, I think you remind me of my Publicis days, and the team that we had there was it truly was, it felt like a family. We were all, we had each other's back. And it was just such a lovely environment, I missed that so much. And it was a very special time. Because, you know, you just you want to be there and you want to help each other and I just, I get that vibe from you every time I speak to you. Tell me about, we're obviously recording this in December 2020, we are in, we've just come out of lockdown because of global pandemic. I would love you to just touch on maybe some of the challenges you've had, from an account management perspective, any challenges you've experienced as a result of suddenly everyone working from home and maybe having to speak to clients at home? Or getting stuff done? What's kind of, what's been happening? your side?<br><br></div><div>Sarah:<br><br></div><div>Yeah, I think that it's, it's brilliant, when we're all in the agency together, when we're all in the studio together, you know, we can just pull into meetings, ad hoc, we can just, you know, have discussions over the desks. We can't do that now. And that's, that is hard. Because, you know, we do work together so well, we create things together. So I think that's, that is a drawback that we have to work in our silos, we, you know, a lot has done over Messenger, over Zoom, it's just not quite the same. And in a creative space, I think you get the best synergies with colleagues, when you are in a room together. And there's just the fun bit as well, you know, just the social bit, but, you know, I think we, we are lucky, Zoom, I know that it's not everybody's favourite thing, but it's been a lifesaver. And, and I think that we never had any qualms in jumping on a video call with clients before. So this was just an extension of that. And our clients have been very receptive to that, you know, they're just very happy to. We've just kept regularly checking in with clients, even if it's just to have a chat and just say, how's it all going? Isn't this all a bit weird? You know, they've bee&nbsp; happy to chat and, and from that, sometimes they'll open up start talking about business opportunities, things that they quite like to do, things they'd like to look into. And we've been able to see where we can help.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>Have you found that they've been more accessible than usual, because they're at home and have more time for you?&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Sarah:<br><br></div><div>At times they are, depending on the client, at times, yeah, they can be more accessible. And there have been times I just think that in an office environment, your times a bit more segmented, and you've got a meeting all morning, and then you're out of the office, you know, whatever it might be, Whereas you know, you don't have that travel time you don't, there is more downtime, possibly, depending on the client. And it doesn't mean that, you know, they're more likely to want to have a chat, really.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>I love what you said there, you just phoning in, you know, phoning to check on them. And then that kind of leads naturally to business conversation. So that's kind of feels very natural. What about you, Ruby? What are the challenges? How have you seen this whole situation? And how have you overcome it?<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>So I think one of the kind of biggest challenges for me, regardless of COVID, really is managing scope creep, and maintaining a healthy partnership. I think that is probably one of the hardest aspects of our role, as account directors, is kind of maintaining that relationship, giving the client what they want, as well as not over burning hours in the studio. So I think, you know, a lot of projects start with a host of assumptions on both sides that aren't always captured in the initial brief, or in the initial, which are then not captured in the estimate. And these assumptions can be anything from, you know, functionality, they thought was meant to be included, or data automatically being pulled through. And I think COVID and doing it all over the phone or doing over Zoom has made it more difficult, because, you know, none of us have found that magic solution yet to overcome all the scope creep. But I think doing over zoom has made it a little bit more difficult. So I like to have quite an open conversation at the start of the partnership, you know, maybe over a kind of introductory lunch or quite softly where we kind of explained that all the assumptions will be unearthed in the early stages and things will be brought to the surface and that we will collaboratively overcome these. So I think not being able to kind of book those lunches and have those soft touches make some of the harder conversations down the line a little more trickier to navigate.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>That's really interesting, actually. And I'm glad we're talking about it because scope creep is huge. It's one of the biggest problems that we have to manage, isn't it? Yeah. And what you just said there was really key I think, is sort of managing expectations from the beginning, but also sort of preparing the client for the fact that there may be assumptions that we were both making and that are going to come up throughout the project that will have to talk about.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>I think setting that foundation to have that transparent conversation is key. And you know, I like to capture all of these probably in a statement of work or something like that, and use prioritising methods, usually a Moscow approach methodology where it - must have, should have, could have, won’t have, an understanding their priorities so that I can then go back to the team and say, like, this is a really small tweak, can we squeeze it in budget, letting the client know as well that we've managed to squeeze that one in just so that they're kind of aware of what is coming through and what isn't? And, you know, some of the larger assumptions, you know, is there a workaround that we can do that brings it within budget, or if not provide an additional quote for it. And I just, I also think for other account managers and account directors, I think having that conversation where the client assumed it was included we’ve not assumed it's included, is a tricky one. And I think having the confidence to kind of, you know, provide work around or if not possible, show them all the things that have been included, that weren’t initially included, and be confident enough to provide a quote and explain that, you know, it might be that we can do this in phase two. And it's also once you've built that relationship with the client, there are elements of, or assumptions that don't squeeze into phase one, it's an amazing way of building that shopping list for your account plan for future growth from the phase two. Because you've instantly got a whole host of requirements that your client wants to action, and they can be rolled out quite quickly after the initial phase. So it can really help with rolling your account and, and keeping that client working with the agency after the kind of big ticket piece of work.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>Really good points here. First, slight point, Moscow, um, repeat that for us&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>So, must have, should have, could have, won't have.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>So it's a nice way for them to prioritise and really sort of sit down. But we really must have that. We should have that, shouldn't we? Because I know Peter wants that or could have, okay, well, there's a few people that want it and won't have fine, you know, it is a bottom of the priority list. So it's a way that they can kind of sit down and know that it's business critical that we must have it and then we have to have quite transparent conversations about that.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>Love that tip Ruby, that's a great tip. Thank you. What about scope creep, where it's less about additional features, and not having identified those at the beginning. And it's just simply because the project is going on longer than we anticipated. And we're spending more hours any tips for any account manager that might be listening to this with that situation?<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>I would say really be transparent and let that client know, early, as soon as you know that this project is not on path, let them know. And you know, and&nbsp; speak to your team don't just sit there and let it fester. Because it's only gonna get worse. I mean, I've learned from that it's not going to go away, speak to your team. And it might be that your boss says right, okay, well, I'm happy as a business to absorb X amount of hours because so and so needed training, or they needed to understand the project a little bit more. And, you know, have that conversation with the client, if there is an opportunity to say, right, as an agency, we're willing to invest X amount of hours, I was wondering, is there any way that we could get an extra X amount of hours so that we can finish this project and together and make sure it's the best version, so kind of letting them know that you've invested hours, and that you need a little bit from them as well. I found that has worked a bit, you need to be in a very good place with your partnership, and have already delivered some elements to build that trust. And so that they don't think, oh, you're just sort of swallowing all the time, make sure that they can see that you've delivered previously. I love that.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>I think that's really, really good. Keep talking, keep the lines of communication really fluid and open, rip off the plaster have the conversation as early as you possibly can. And then come with it's only gonna get worse and then prepare some solutions or prepare you know, internally have that conversation before you go back to the client. So great, great advice. What other advice do you have Sarah for anyone that's listening to this and they think I need to kind of improve my account management skills or I need I want that promotion to account director, I'm ready for that. What else do I need to be doing? Any advice for client service people?<br><br></div><div>Sarah:<br><br></div><div>Yeah, I think you can just make sure you're educating yourself in your clients industry, making sure you're having that strategic relationship with them in terms of wanting to climb up the ranks I think you can demonstrate that you're doing your job through the agency numbers. So if you're clear on what you are delivering you know and having your targets set properly in terms of you know what, what is likely to happen what has happened in the past and you can show what you're bringing to the to the agency, they, you will get recognition for the role that you're playing in the agency.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>Great advice, bring extra value, learn about the client’s business and watch the numbers. Ruby, anything else?<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>Yeah, I would say firstly obviously, reach out to yourself, Jenny. Every time I speak to you, you ignite a fire in my belly and remind me why I love what I’m doing. And I always come away feeling like I’ve been given a breath of fresh air, which is huge and I think if anyone is looking to improve to definitely, obviously reach out to yourself. And then secondly I would say work closely with your team.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>You’re making me cry. I didn’t pay her, everybody, I didn’t pay her to say that!<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>Secondly work closely with your team, I’ve been in an agency where we were almost encouraged to compete against each other. And were given rewards for getting X amount of money in fastest and things like that and I just don’t think it’s a healthy culture. I think working closely with other people in your client services team. Share ideas, share tips, share stories. Don’t try and stand on each other’s toes. You know you’re in this together as an agency and as a department and I think that is probably one of the ways that I was able to improve my account management skills is from learning from others.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>Great, great advice and thank you for saying that, it was very sweet. What else should you be focussing on, particularly with the account director role? We’ve mentioned understanding the client’s business, being consultative, asking the right questions, bringing insights, bringing new ideas, being ahead of the curve, watching the numbers. Anything that we haven’t mentioned leading the team, being collaborative, being a thought leader. Anything else that you think would be relevant for someone listening to this?<br><br></div><div>Sarah:<br><br></div><div>I think one of the tips you always s give is the asking at the right time for referrals from clients, because that’s a real driver for new business. So making sure you’ve got that, when things have gone right with a project, when you’ve got this strong relationship with your clients and you have demonstrated that your agency is really working int eh best possible way with the best possible results that moment is perfect to be able to ask who else can benefit from these sorts of services?&nbsp; And they historically with us we’ve had clients that are really happy to pass on this referral and just to say yeah well it’s worked for me so why wouldn’t it work for this other associate? And it’s a brilliant way to move through and win new business.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>I’m so glad you said that, Sarah, because that’s spot on. And I think Agencynomics have done a couple of surveys recently to show that I thinks its 30 percent of new business comes from clients who refer you to someone else or move somewhere else and take you with them. That’s huge, so if we’re not good at spotting the opportunities to ask for referrals then you know, it’s a missed opportunity.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Sarah:<br><br></div><div>Exactly, yes, just having that relationship where it’s possible to ask as well. You should be as an account director or account manager comfortable with you clients to that degree where you can happily ask for that. And if you don’t have that relationship its probably something you need to continue to work on.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>Really good point. Ruby, who inspires you, who do you follow? What do you listen to, what do you read? You’ve mentioned resources for your role like LinkedIn, setting up Google Alerts, following your clients on social and understanding their industries. Where do you get this information, what do you do?<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>So I do a lot of talking I think. Rather than going to these sort of platforms I think I just do a lot of talking with others within client services. I have a former colleague at a previous agency that continues to inspire me, Jody Simpson, she’s just an absolute pocket rocket and even now we’ve both moved on , we’re both in separate agencies but we kind of whenever we’ve got an issue, it could be a client issue or just a general question it’s just having that network where you can kind of tap in and say I just need a bit of help, I’m a bit stuck, I don’t know where to go with this and being able to share stories or shed a bit of advice, or read a difficult email things like that. We do it together, Sarah and I and I would say that it’s those moments that inspire my career. I’m not a massive one for kind of reaching out or looking at and following people in this space. I think it’s more I have probably quite a small close knit network that inspires my career and definitely amongst the team at Thursday, Sarah, Simon, talking to other people that are right in the thick of it, I think that’s what helps me in my role.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>Great, that’s really good advice. What about you Sarah?<br><br></div><div>Sarah:<br><br></div><div>Actually I have to say I’m quite similar to be honest. I think we all try and keep up to speed with what’s happening and there are things, I like to read Creative Review and that sort of thing because I’m at heart creative and that interests me. Keeping up to speed and seeing what the latest creative thinking is and the odd podcast but there’s nothing that I would say I religiously would go to, but like Ruby for me it’s conversations. And in those conversations people put you on to things all the time. Jenny, with me before you’ve said, have you heard this, have you read that? And I’ve got a weird personality that if someone says that to me I have to then do it. Have you read that, and it’s a whole book. Yes, I will then go and read that book. So there are little things but nothing that, I’ll take advice from other people on what to read and have those conversations. And we all seem to be pretty much up to speed so it seems to be working.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>Absolutely, that’s great. Great advice. Final question – anyone listening to this who’s thinking about getting into agency account management what would your one piece of advice be? And don’t say don’t do it!<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>I would say be present on LinkedIn, make sure you build yourself a great profile and reach out to people in the industry. Everyone within account management, we love to chat. Reach out to people and just say hey have you got 5 minutes, can I have a chat? I’m thinking of getting into this industry&nbsp; would you be able to shed some light. And just having that conversation it will build your confidence and it will also clarify whether it is a route that you want to take.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>Brilliant advice. Sarah, anything else?<br><br></div><div>Sarah:<br><br></div><div>I think networking events, things like we do Tea and Toast at Thursday and a couple of other networking events that our marketing manager puts our way sometimes when things come up that are of interest. And I think that’s a brilliant way, you just, now that it’s all on Zoom if feels like it’s going to be a bit awkward particularly when they’ve got breakout rooms and you’ve got to chat to people you’ve never met, on Zoom. But actually, weirdly, it really works. I’ve found it really works. And I’ve met some really interesting people and if I was just starting out in this career I think that would be a great way to just to kind of get that exposure, to chat to people and to find out who you click with and if they potentially run an agency or work in that sector then it’s just a great intro.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>Good advice, very good advice. Where can people reach you if they want to contact you to have a further chat?<br><br></div><div>Ruby:<br><br></div><div>LinkedIn, I’m always on LinkedIn. So just reach out, send a message and then we can set up a Zoom call.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>Same for you Sarah?<br><br></div><div>Sarah:<br><br></div><div>I’m the same, yeah. I very often check my LinkedIn account.<br><br></div><div>Jenny:<br><br></div><div>Brilliant, alright. So thank you both so much, this has been so valuable. I know that you’ve shared so many tips and I’m sure people are thinking I didn’t think of that, or this was a great reminder or hopefully they are going to come away with some golden nuggets that they can apply in their businesses. So thank you both so much.<br><br></div><div><em>&nbsp;<br></em><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2020 09:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/jw05r6z8.mp3" length="60292095" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/3cc70760-3e9d-11eb-b79b-13b585e93369/3cc708e0-3e9d-11eb-88dc-5147c325d4f6.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3014</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>This episode is particularly useful for you if you are working as account manager in a creative agency and aspire to be an account director.

It's also useful if you're already an agency account director and are looking for some ideas and learnings from other account directors in the creative industry to apply in your role.

Sarah Deakin and Ruby Beagan are account directors for Thursday Studio, an insight-led design studio in Winchester.

The reason I invited them on to the show is to share their day to day experience of what it's like in the role of account director in a creative agency.

During this interview, they share:

* What they believe is the value the account management role brings to an agency and its clients
* Difference between the account manager and account director role
* Examples of where they've made a difference to the client's business
* Their thoughts on why clients stay with agencies for the long term
* Their approach to client retention and growth
* The challenges those in account management are facing right now with remote working and some ideas for how to overcome them
* Advice for others in agency client service who want to improve their account management skills and accelerate their career
* The key areas account directors should be focussing on in their role

....and lots more nuggets of wisdom.

Enjoy.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>This episode is particularly useful for you if you are working as account manager in a creative agency and aspire to be an account director.

It's also useful if you're already an agency account director and are looking for some ideas and learnings from other account directors in the creative industry to apply in your role.

Sarah Deakin and Ruby Beagan are account directors for Thursday Studio, an insight-led design studio in Winchester.

The reason I invited them on to the show is to share their day to day experience of what it's like in the role of account director in a creative agency.

During this interview, they share:

* What they believe is the value the account management role brings to an agency and its clients
* Difference between the account manager and account director role
* Examples of where they've made a difference to the client's business
* Their thoughts on why clients stay with agencies for the long term
* Their approach to client retention and growth
* The challenges those in account management are facing right now with remote working and some ideas for how to overcome them
* Advice for others in agency client service who want to improve their account management skills and accelerate their career
* The key areas account directors should be focussing on in their role

....and lots more nuggets of wisdom.

Enjoy.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>agency account director</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to create a high performing agency team culture, with Alison Coward</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/68r661r8</link>
      <itunes:title>How to create a high performing agency team culture, with Alison Coward</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>13</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">805vvk61</guid>
      <description>This episode is for you if you're responsible for an agency team and you want the team to be working together more collaboratively.

Today's guest is my friend Alison Coward who is the founder of Bracket Creative and an expert in team culture.

In this episode Alison explains:

* Why it's important for agencies to pay attention to their team culture and impact a positive culture has on productivity
* What to look for if you suspect your team culture needs attention 
* Some examples of where agency leaders go wrong with team culture
* How remote working is affecting team collaboration and what you can do to bring the team together

Alison shares insight she's gained from many years working with high performing teams and what shines through in this chat is Alison's vast knowledge and passion for the subject and the many compelling reasons why team culture, particularly now is so important to keeping us all working together in the best possible way.

Enjoy!</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript<br><br></strong>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:</div><div>So I'm really excited to welcome to the show, Alison Coward today who is the founder of Bracket Creative and Bracket Creative help teams work better together. Now the first time I met Alison was when she was speaking at an Agencynomics event. And she's a very well known keynote speaker. And I was just struck by how she captivated the audience. Literally all of these agency leaders were scribbling notes, because she was just so, so articulate for one, but also, her speech contained so much fact based, you know, there was data, there was thought leadership that she was quoting books and statistics, and it was so impressive, and we've become friends. And I'm, for that reason, we're both in the same kind of industries. Alison works with lots of different types of industry and companies, but specifically, we have an overlap in terms of agencies, because she works with agencies. I would love for you, Alison, I know you've got over 15 years experience, I'd love you to just give us a flavour of your experience.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:</div><div>Yeah, well, firstly, thank you for having me, I always love our chat. So I'm really looking forward to this. I think you've given a really good introduction to what I do already. And my company is Bracket, I specialise in team culture and collaboration, I have been working in the creative industries, literally most of my career. And specifically what I do at Bracket is around helping teams to become more creative, more productive together, essentially looking at that high performance, but how can they make the most of the talents of the team and, get them to work together so they can achieve amazing things together and enjoy while they're doing it, as well. So I do a lot of workshop facilitation, which are sessions where we bring teams together, helping them to have productive discussions, and, you know, figure out what they're going to do, how they're going to do it, strategy, sessions, kickoff, sessions, brainstorming, you know, new idea type brainstorming sessions as well. The other thing that I do around that is a lot of my work is influenced by workshop facilitation. And I'll probably get into that a little bit later. We also do kind of training and coaching and consultancy, because I think one of the things that's really important to me is that people within teams become owners of their culture and responsible for their culture. So I'm really kind of quite keen on helping people to develop the skills that I have in particularly in facilitation, and how they can have better conversations about how they work together.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:</div><div>Fantastic, what I love, you always pop up on LinkedIn. And it's not necessarily that you're posting, it's because your clients tend to post about the experience of working with you. And they're usually just glowing with great feedback. So I know that you do some great work in the world, and why specifically, like turning our attention specifically to agencies, because this is the audience that I'm talking to mainly, why do you think it's important for agencies to pay attention to their team culture?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:</div><div>Yeah. So I mean, I come from the creative industries and create, like a creative background. So my history is in working with creative people, people that have you know, have got creativity as their currency. And there's one thing about like, being creative. But then there's another thing about the conditions that foster more creativity, and foster high performance. And that often comes down to things like the culture like, you know, how easy is it for people to put forward ideas? How supportive do they feel in their environment? How easy, how comfortable do they feel, taking risks, and making mistakes in front of their team members. And that's all cultural. So within an agency environment, focusing on the aspects around the team, which kind of create the environment for people to do their best work is super important. You know, you can be creative without some of those conditions. But if you do put those things in place, then you're going to get much more kind of productivity and creativity from a team. And as I say, they're going to enjoy doing it as well. Oh, and you know, enjoyment is a big part, enjoyment and engagement is a big part of doing great work. It's not kind of you know, if you do the work, and then you have fun, it's, it's completely interlinked. If you can enjoy what you do, then you produce better outputs. It's just as simple as that.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:</div><div>It's so true. I mean, you mentioned the creative output, which is so key to what we do as an industry and how great team collaboration and culture can foster that. What do you think the impact on the agency's bottom line is as a result of a strong team culture?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:</div><div>Yeah, well, I mean, the thing that comes to mind when you when you talk about that is, and this is what I spoke about at the Agencynomics event, it was one of the things that I mentioned was the idea of psychological safety. And it was a study that came out, actually, psychological safety comes from I think it was coined by someone called Amy Edmondson who's an academic. She does a lot of work around like teams and teaming. But when Google did this internal research study into what made their most high performing teams, they found that psychological safety was right at the top of the list. They thought when they did this research because they wanted to understand like, what made the best teams perform highly? And how could they replicate that and they thought they were going to find things like, you know, IQ and like aspects of technical expertise, that kind of thing. But everything that they found was more cultural. And at the top of the list was this idea of psychological safety, which is people feeling safe to make mistakes, and take risks and learn from their mistakes, all within a team environment. So I mean, if Google were finding that this was what made them high performing teams, I definitely think it's something that we should probably all take notice of. And there's no I mean, there's loads of research studies, I can reel some off if I kind of look through my notes, but research that shows that when people are more engaged, and it leads to more productivity, when people are happier in their work meets more productivity, when people have good connections with their colleagues at work, it leads to more productivity. So there's, I mean, there's loads out there and show that concentrating on culture is not I mean, I think the problem with culture is that it can seem into intangible that, I think, is a mixture of so many different aspects. But it might be hard to pinpoint exactly which thing is having an impact on the bottom line, but all of it together definitely does.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:</div><div>I love that point about psychological safety. And it's, it's quite a well known study in certain circles. But if someone's listening to this, and it's the first time they've heard that concept, and they're thinking, actually, I want to make sure as a leader of an agency that I am creating an environment that my staff feel that they are psychologically safe, that they can admit they've made a mistake or take risks, why would they know they hadn't created that environment? What would they look for?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:</div><div>What would they look for so? Honesty. Are people able to be honest? Are you able to constructively critique your teammates and team members ideas without, you know, it turning into unproductive conflict? Are you getting ideas from people, because the thing is, is if it's not psychologically safe, and then people are going to be afraid to say something that they think might be stupid. And we you know, we know in the brainstorming session, that often it's those kind of terrible, those ideas that seem terrible at first that leads to innovation. So if you're not getting those kinds of terrible ideas, I guess that's a good way of kind of seeing that you haven't got psychological safety, because people don't feel safe sharing them, or playing around or kind of, you know, experimenting. So I think those are some of the signs. I do feel that people have been honest, are able to speak up and be honest. I mean, you can look at your meetings, for example. And I guess this is not always a sign of psychological safety. But it can be one of the things to look out for when you're running your meetings and our people speaking up? And does it feel like an environment where people do feel that they can speak up without getting, you know, any kind of pushback, or, you know, being blamed for getting something wrong, or made to feel stupid?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:</div><div>This is so interesting, because presumably, if it takes a lot of self reflection, maybe and self awareness on behalf of an agency, or agency leader, for example, to recognise that, and maybe it's the middle management, maybe that spot what's happening as a dynamic. And to that point, can you talk to us when an agency comes to you, someone from an agency, who typically comes to you? And what kind of sort of symptoms do they explain to you as to why they think they need to address their team culture?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:</div><div>Yeah. Well, do you know what Jenny, this is super interesting. And this is something that I've discovered over the past couple of years through looking at who comes to me, I mean, first of all, it depends on the size of the agency, but often, it is like an agency leader, that comes to me. I find that the teams or the agencies that are really in trouble, I don't see them, because they don't know what they don't know. They don't know that, you know, it's likely that they haven't even registered that culture is something that is important to focus on, or they've completely dismissed it or something. And they think that it's a luxury and something not necessarily the teams that come to me, they're already on their way to exploring or looking at a team culture, I often tend to work. I mean, I've had it on my website that I work with forward thinking teams, because I really think that the people that come to me are the people that are already doing a lot right. And they want to know, how do we keep this going? We're growing, things are changing, how do we make sure that we maintain our culture because they already see how important it is. Or they might be at the kind of early stages of that they're starting to kind of come around to the idea that we need to spend a little bit of time and resource on our culture. So I don't really, I can't really say that I kind of see people that have, like, you know, like you say the symptoms, but it's, you know, it's usually all the kind of things that we want to make sure that people feel included. You want to become more collaborative and want to run our meetings better. So yeah, there's, it's usually kind of towards the other end.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:</div><div>That's so interesting, isn't it? It's almost like I can't tell you that this input is important, you almost have to decided it's important, and then look for some help in how to make it better.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:</div><div>Definitely, yeah. And I think, you know, it's not like you sit around the self awareness, this is not easy work. And, you know, there are all kinds of things that you can do to get things going and to start things off, which will make an impact. But actually, the self awareness, you know, if you've got a leader that all of a sudden realises that their meetings aren't a place where people can speak up, that does take kind of like an admission that maybe I'm not running these meetings in the most effective way, which is like a self criticism, which, you know, some people aren't ready for.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:</div><div>How do you think the whole situation with COVID and this global pandemic where we’ve all had to work remotely? What effect do you think that's had on generally across the board on Team culture?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:</div><div>Massive impact. I think if people weren't thinking about it before, they're definitely thinking about it. Now. People have really seen I mean, in the conversations that I've had, and people have really seen the connection and engagement piece, but how do we stay connected as a team? And we're not sitting next to each other? And, and yeah, meetings, online meetings in meetings, but how do we run our meetings to make them more engaging, and we make the best use of our time? I think, you know, again, one of the things that I was, was quite interesting at the start of pandemic, you know, this was something that none of us had experienced before. I was kind of looking around at teams and thinking is the stuff that I've been doing with teams over these years, is it relevant in these times? Does it work? Is it you know, is it going to hold up, so I was kind of, you know, just observing and seeing what was going on. But one of the things that I remember and quite distinctive, it started with pandemic was, you know, there was kind of like that initial rush to get everyone working from home. So everyone focused on like the tech and that, can we work from home, and there was this kind of like, wave of zoom screenshots on LinkedIn, of like, you know, people with, you know, maybe with the silly hats on or, you know, showing we’re all working from home, we can all do it, we can all work from Zoom. And sort of like thinking, it's great that you've been able to get on Zoom. But that's not culture. That's not team culture. Team culture actually happens in between those zoom meetings. And so I think there was kind of a, I think, a realisation of what culture really is. And not just kind of people feeling good and happy. And the kind of, you know, the Friday night down the pub, and it's really all of everything, and all the stuff that we can't see as well, and how people feel about their work.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:</div><div>Give us a few examples of what good looks like.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:</div><div>Good looks like,&nbsp; I've spoken about a lot of it. Good looks like anybody being able to say, this isn't working in the way that we work together, let's improve it. It looks like anybody within a team standing up and saying, I would like to improve this within our culture. But what can we do together? It means somebody in a team. I mean, I talk a lot about facilitation. And I think that's really key to meeting. So for me and ideal, this doesn't always happen. But an ideal is anybody been able to facilitate those meetings and all of those meetings being productive, and the best use of everyone's time. It looks like a team, like if you were to ask a team, that what is it that you're working towards? Everyone would be 100%, super clear. And it looks like a team being aware of the value of their teammates and their team members understanding everyone else's contributions as well as their own and having empathy to how people work differently. Yeah, there's a mixture of things. I mean, I could go on forever, really. But yeah, it's like a resilient team, you know, that how well does a team stand up, like if something changes within the team, it could be a pandemic. I mean, we've kind of experienced that now. But how resilient is a team that how does a team kind of bounce back quickly? Or how does the team kind of rally round and support each other through that? So those are those are the kinds of things that I look for in cultures, team culture.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:&nbsp;</div><div>if someone's listening to this, and thinking, oh, my goodness, I'm a leader in a business. And I believe that we've got a bit of a problem. I don't see people standing up and presenting ideas. I don't see people being quite bold in their thoughts and being able to express themselves, where do you even start? Like, what can you give us a few tips for someone listening to think what they could do about it?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:</div><div>Um, so again, it depends on sort of what stage you're at, like things are really broken, and obviously you need to kind of address it more sensitively. So in that case, I might suggest like one to one conversations with team members and anonymous survey and those kinds of things to kind of gather thoughts and feedback and that actually listening to that feedback, not kind of dismissing it because you don't agree with it or it kind of sounds quite threatening, but actually really listening to it and taking it to heart and then looking at what can change. In a team where you can start to have those conversations have an open conversation about like, what's, what's not working for us? And what is working? And where do we want to be as a team, and therefore, how can we get there. Again, that kind of takes a certain level of connection within the team already in place, because people need to trust it, and trust that it's going to lead to something. But starting small is super key, like the worst thing is to kind of make these massive promises that everything's gonna change, and then not be able to live up to that promise, because a big part of this is behaviour change, behaviour of the leader and people in the team as well. So making sure that whatever you kind of at least start with is a kind of a small shift. So you know, starting with our weekly meeting, and how can we improve that? How can we make our weekly meeting more collaborative and more inclusive and working on that over a period of time and seeing the shift. And see the shift in that weekly team meeting you can start seeing the shift up in other places, as well as building up the momentum to kind of try new things. Because the team would have seen that actually, they set up meetings weren't working, they were involved in figuring out what makes what will make that meeting work. And then they started to see those changes actually take place. And they can feel the difference.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:</div><div>It's such great tips, such great advice. Recently, I heard of an agency who had been listening to their team, which is great, as you say, and the feedback was, we're having too many internal meetings, everyone Xoomed out, they're exhausted, and they wanted some control back on their diaries. So they decided to have a no internal meetings day, a week, you know, and what else? Have you seen other examples of little initiatives that have been helpful to teams?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:</div><div>In the pandemic, one of the things that I've seen and I’d advised teams on, and I've seen teams doing this as well, is making space for the social connection. And because we don't have that now, do we, we don't have the kind of we can just walk over someone's desk and ask them a question or say, let's kind of take a coffee break together. So actually making this up being intentional and making a space for that. I've heard of some teams using a there's like a little plugin on Slack called Donut, which randomly pairs people for coffee. And so there's that the social connection, and what else is there? What else have I seen, um, so the no meeting days are something that I've seen as well. One team that I've worked with actually gave the example of giving everybody and got rotating the responsibility of doing a little activity at the start of a team meeting, which was a fun activity. And everybody had responsibility in there kind of, in turn to do that to kind of involve them. And to kind of surprise the team. Also, what else have I seen? And Gosh, lots of things. And I think also very simple. I mean, personally, I've seen leaders investing in this more so actually getting external facilitators like myself to work with their teams to have these kinds of conversations when teams haven't done that before, you know, so that can make a difference. I mean, there's a lot of follow up to be done after that. So the workshop in itself is not the kind of, you know, check, we've done it. Actually, it's the kind of the start of a conversation, I've seen much more of that and much more sort of leaders willing to invest in like away days, and like team discussions and those kinds of things to talk about how they work together, as well</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:</div><div>See, that would make total sense to me that you get someone in externally to conduct that, yeah, it might take a, you know, a certain amount of humility, because you don't know what you're going to find out. But I would have thought that a third party people would be much more likely to open up and presumably they do to you?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:</div><div>They do and I mean, on that as well as I am, you know, obviously I do facilitation as an external person, and I see the value of it. And I do see the kind of value of having someone from the outside be able to spot that my aim with teams at the same time is eventually for them to be able to do that themselves. Because I don't think that these kinds of conversations and discussions should be reserved as a special thing. And I think that this is how people should be running their meetings, they should be open, they should be collaborative, there should be a space where people feel that they can be honest and constructive and kind of problem solve together. So at the same time, as you know, I do see the value in every now and again, getting some kind of external facilitator in to support those discussions, especially if a team has never done it before, because a facilitator knows how to handle those dynamics. But encouraging a team to have those discussions more frequently and eventually take responsibility for the facilitation themselves.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:</div><div>I love that it's almost, it's much better to make that investment to almost course correct the agency and then give them the tools and the skills to carry on. I love that. Where do you see this evolving? What kind of trends are you seeing for the future? Is this just gonna carry on being something that we invest time in?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:</div><div>I hope so. I mean, I have, since I've started the business, I've definitely seen a shift in the way in the recognition of the importance of team culture has accelerated in the last few months, in terms of kind of like the complete end of the scale where I hope teams will get to. Where I really want to see teams get into is that they do take responsibility, like everybody on the team takes responsibility for the culture. So it is like a kind of self evolving, self sustaining continuously developing team culture, rather than it kind of being seen as something that you do once and then it's kind of done. And the reason I see that happening is because change is, it's I mean, change is normal now, we should expect change. And a team needs to be able to kind of take themselves through those changes. I mean, it's great if you can bring an external person in. But what's much more powerful is if the team themselves have the skills to be able to kind of adapt and respond to what changes happening around them. So that's where I hope team culture is going in that it becomes much more natural part of the work conversation, we're not just focusing on the output, and what it is that we need to create. But we're also having conversations about how we get there together.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:</div><div>I think this is fantastic. I've got a question for you. With the way we've been working recently, particularly agencies, obviously, this is really super relevant, where you have a team that you want to enhance the way they work and be more productive, be more collaborative. What about if agencies now are getting more freelance talent now and again, for different projects, bringing in teams from around the world? Because now we've opened up the market to the world, haven't we? Working on projects together. Do you have any advice or thoughts around how to do that efficiently? When it's just more about maybe, you know, short term contracts with people.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:</div><div>Yeah, I mean, to be honest, this is where Bracket started, Bracket started off as an agency that brought together freelance talent. And that's where all of these concepts that I've kind of, and these this methodology in this framework, it's evolved out of that through the knowledge of like what it takes to bring independent experts together into short term teams. And, you know, because they're working together in over a short period, they need to kind of perform well, quickly, right. So and it's all of the same principles just intensified. And, you know, get the team together, get everyone in the team together from the start, whether they're freelancer, whether internal, get the whole team generating that, how they're going to work together, and what they're going to work together on that. What's the what's the final idea, make it collaborative from the start and keep everyone involved. And so that everyone's got a bit of ownership over how the project goes, rather than kind of coming in and doing a little bit that they can only see. You know, their part, they need to be able to see the bigger picture. And so, that's exactly what I was doing when I first started Bracket, which was like bringing these things together. No matter what their kind of discipline was getting everyone together at the start of a project, having a discussion about like, you know, this is what the client wants. This is the skills that we have on the team, but what can we do? What does it look like? And how are we going to work together to make that happen? And I mean, I mean, this is a long time ago now. But I remember, this is how I started facilitating, because I didn't really do facilitation before that. I just remember, like all of those sessions, the freelancers enjoyed it so much, because they were kind of, they felt much more part of the project rather than kind of being handed a piece, and that they would take away do and then and then kind of deliver.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:</div><div>It just feels like such a no brainer, doesn't it?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:</div><div>It does. Yeah, it does. I've been talking about it for ages. And I think for me, you know, I know, there's lots of complexities involved within companies and agencies and teams and organisations. At the same time, I think that if we kind of kept it simple, which is, you know, how do we get great people together to do great work? That's what we want, right? And we would kind of probably make it a lot easier on ourselves.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:</div><div>Absolutely. And you want to get it right first time, don't you, because time is money. And the longer they have to work, you know, over and above the original brief. It's just costing anyone money. So it's just it's absolutely no brainer. It's been fantastic the amount of information you've shared with us. And the insight you've provided is great. I know you have a team culture programme, which obviously you've been iterating over years. So it's now probably a well oiled programme with all of your experience. Can you tell us a bit about that?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:</div><div>Yeah, so the programme is almost like a combination of everything that I know and do and have done with teams over the years. So it's a mixture of like facilitation, ie, getting the team together to create ideas. Figure out like, you know, what it is that they're working towards, what their team purpose is, all that kind of stuff, as well as training. So this idea of ensuring that teams have the skills to kind of sustain this and so teaching them things like facilitation and how they would have conversations about designing new ways of working together, and as well as team coaching as well because every team is unique. There's no kind of like cookie cutter approach for you know, making a team work. A team culture depends on who's in it, what they're working on the nature of their work, and what that team looks like together, the environment that they're working within, so that the coaching addresses the specific issues for that specific team. And it's a mixture of all of that stuff. So yeah, training, facilitation, coaching, consultancy, and to get a team to a level where not only do they know what they're working on, they know their culture, they know their identity, but they've got the tools and the skills to kind of sustain that if any changes happen, or someone joins a team, someone leaves, if they face any challenge together as a team as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:</div><div>I can imagine that it's not only an effective process to go through, but also a fun process.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:</div><div>I should hope so. Yeah, I would say that it's fun to work with me. But yeah,, the thing is with this as well, is that, you know, I've learned a lot. As you say, I've been doing this for quite a while. And I've learned a lot about teams and kind of, you know, evolved my thinking around it. And I think when I first started doing this, I was so focused on collaboration, and you know, the team as a unit, and I kind of I wouldn't say that I forgot about, but I didn't really see the relevance of the individuals within the team. It sounds bizarre, but I was kind of looking at the team as a whole rather than the individuals in the team. And then it kind of dawned on me that if you want a team to perform well, together, then those individuals need to perform well, individually, right? They need to be self aware, they need to kind of know where their opportunities for development are, they need to know how they fit into the kind of collective goal of the team. So you kind of need to work on those two levels. So the programme kind of works with a team in terms of the dynamics of all of those people coming together, but also works with the individuals to ensure that they are engaged and connected and you know, their areas of development that's been focused on in terms of how do they contribute to the to the bigger picture.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:</div><div>Makes total sense. What are the first few steps that you take when you start working with an agency?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:</div><div>And so as an assessment, there's lots of kind of interviews and kind of where are you now and I’ve actually designed a bit of an assessment, which is on my website, and just about to be released, actually. So it kind of helps teams to figure out what stage they're at, whether they need to fix their cultural overlay to build it when they need to sustain it. But anyway, you know, after that, it's like a five minute quiz. And there's more investigation into that, what are the actual dynamics in the team? What do people in the team feel like the priorities are to address or fix or improve or work on and then we'll set up a plan around that. So there's the five pillars of the programme, which are the kind of things that I've learned, that are important for high performing teams, but then there's all the pieces in between, which is where the team gets to really address the issues based on their own specific culture.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:</div><div>Sounds like a really useful tool, we certainly put the <a href="https://www.bracketcreative.co.uk/">link to your website</a>, because I think even if it's not live yet, when someone listens to this, I'm sure by the time they listen, it'll, it'll be live. How do you get inspired, Alison? Who do you follow? What kind of sources of inspiration do you go to?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:</div><div>I'm always reading and I do sort of, you know, I've got some Google Alerts set up for things like collaboration and creativity, you know, I get a lot of inspiration from, sounds really boring, but I get a lot of inspiration from academic papers. I really love reading and you know, kind of like research papers on meetings and the connection to wellbeing and how to, you know, increase creativity and productivity and the value of facilitation. So I get a lot of inspiration from those kinds of those kinds of studies. Yeah, I mean, I love hearing about teams that feel that they're doing good work and kind of seeing examples of things that they're putting in place to get inspiration. I think one thing that's important is that, you know, you may see something work in one team culture, and you can take inspiration from it, but it's may not work for you in exactly in that exact same way. And you may need to kind of adapt it. So I do like kind of reading about teams and what they're doing and sort of what they've learned as well. And so yeah, and I've got like a stack of books behind me that I need to get as well.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:&nbsp;</div><div>You're probably one of the most well read people I know. And it was clear from your talk that you did, I mean, it was just bam, bam, bam with all these statistics, and it was just, you know, it's evidence based, everything that you talk about is evidence based. So I think it's really, really powerful. If someone's listening to this, who ideally is the ideal person that you think you can help the most, like, who would you want to contact you? And how would they do that?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:&nbsp;</div><div>Yeah, I think anybody that's got responsibility for a team and is able to invest resources in you know, their development, essentially. So whether that's kind of a middle manager within a larger organisation or a senior leader within a smaller agency, although I'm happy to talk to anybody to be honest. Like I you know, sometimes I go in and I do kind of, you know, coaching with people that want to learn to facilitate more effectively, for people. I mean, one of the things that I feel quite passionate about, as well as obviously, from a business point of view, certain people that are able to kind of invest in what I do, but I'm also really passionate about helping people that work within teams. It might not be at that level, but really concede that there's things they can improve. And they've got like a real passion to make their working environment and their team's working environment better. So if you're one of those people, then feel free to get in touch because I always like talking to people like you as well. And you can go to my website bracketcreative.co.uk or find me on LinkedIn - <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/alisoncoward/">Alison Coward</a>.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:</div><div>Fantastic. Have you got any final pieces of advice for anyone listening to this about teen culture?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:</div><div>And yeah, I mean, I think I said it before, but start small. You know, this is I think, you know, you can feel very passionate about improving team culture. And I think that's great. Like, definitely, if you're in the stage where you think like, this is something we want to work on and, but be realistic about what it takes for people to change their behaviour. Like it's not instant. It is, you know, something that you will work on over time and hopefully continue to work on. So I'm taking like a small first step, just to get the ball rolling, just to get buy in, just to get people feeling a bit motivated, that change can happen and then then go from there.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny:</div><div>Thank you. That's great advice. I love talking to you, Alison. You can see in your eyes how passionate you are about this subject. So I hope people will get in touch and benefit from your services. Thank you so much for joining us.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alison:&nbsp;</div><div>Thanks for having me.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2020 09:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/j8y10008.mp3" length="39509598" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/d6a396e0-3e0f-11eb-9b4f-a36aa03ee054/d6a39800-3e0f-11eb-8407-6fac3d4cc8be.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>1975</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>This episode is for you if you're responsible for an agency team and you want the team to be working together more collaboratively.

Today's guest is my friend Alison Coward who is the founder of Bracket Creative and an expert in team culture.

In this episode Alison explains:

* Why it's important for agencies to pay attention to their team culture and impact a positive culture has on productivity
* What to look for if you suspect your team culture needs attention 
* Some examples of where agency leaders go wrong with team culture
* How remote working is affecting team collaboration and what you can do to bring the team together

Alison shares insight she's gained from many years working with high performing teams and what shines through in this chat is Alison's vast knowledge and passion for the subject and the many compelling reasons why team culture, particularly now is so important to keeping us all working together in the best possible way.

Enjoy!</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>This episode is for you if you're responsible for an agency team and you want the team to be working together more collaboratively.

Today's guest is my friend Alison Coward who is the founder of Bracket Creative and an expert in team culture.

In this episode Alison explains:

* Why it's important for agencies to pay attention to their team culture and impact a positive culture has on productivity
* What to look for if you suspect your team culture needs attention 
* Some examples of where agency leaders go wrong with team culture
* How remote working is affecting team collaboration and what you can do to bring the team together

Alison shares insight she's gained from many years working with high performing teams and what shines through in this chat is Alison's vast knowledge and passion for the subject and the many compelling reasons why team culture, particularly now is so important to keeping us all working together in the best possible way.

Enjoy!</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>team culture creative agency</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The account management skills you need to grow existing client business</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/p8m0rrvn</link>
      <itunes:title>The account management skills you need to grow existing client business</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>12</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">70vnyy30</guid>
      <description>In this solo episode I talk through the four steps of the client value ladder and the skills you need to deliver value at every level. 

It's particularly relevant for you if you are managing the day to day client relationships but are also responsible for account growth and delivering on your agency's forecast.

Many of us in agency account management know that acquiring a new client is 5 to 25 times more expensive than retaining an existing one (1) &amp; increasing client retention rate by 5% increases profit by 25% to 95% (2), but another study by Gartner reported that a whopping 80% of a company's future sales will be derived from 20% of their existing client base! (3).

This makes the skill of growing existing business very important.

What's less well known, and also shown in another study by Gartner called 'Why your accounts aren't growing and what to do about it', is that the account management skills required to retain accounts are DIFFERENT to those required to grow (4). 

The report showed that providing exceptional service leads to retention, not growth.

This means that as agency account managers we need to be thinking about how we need to behave differently if we're responsible for growing our existing accounts.

The report concluded that mastering “client improvement conversations” increases your ability to grow an account by 48% and increases likelihood of renewal or retention of spend by 94% (4).

If handled poorly or indelicately however these conversations could damage relationships and trust (4).

'Value improvement conversations' are defined by the three following actions:

1. Provide customers with a unique, critical perspective
2. Paint a vision of the customer's future business
3. Provide customers with an ROI on the entirety of the relationship

I hope you enjoy this episode and come away with ideas for the skills you need to develop or that you are indeed on the right track with your client development strategy.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Transcript:<br><strong>Jenny:&nbsp;</strong></div><div>Welcome to Episode 12. Now, this episode is a solo episode, and it's all about growing existing business and existing accounts. So this episode really is for you if you are an agency account director or an account manager in the role for a few years, and it's your responsibility to grow that business to grow your client business, and to expand the account and to grow those relationships. Now, this has come up because many of my students, the people that work with me, often have questions like, how can I grow my account without coming across as salesy or pushy and compromising my client relationships? Or what do I need to do? So the client sees me as someone that brings value, because at the moment, they just see us as very transactional. Some people ask me about asking for referrals, we all know it's a lucrative thing to do. And it's a very smart thing to do. But how do you actually ask without coming across as salesy? And what questions should I be asking my client to really understand their business to uncover business problems? And how do I sell without being inauthentic and really having a client centric approach? And do I need to be more assertive without putting my clients off?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>So these are some of the questions that I'm asked all the time about selling to existing clients. And that's the reason why I've decided to put together a series of podcasts around growing existing business. And the key really here is having a client centric approach, and ensuring that you continue to add value to your clients. So in this episode, we're going to be looking at the different value levels that you can give to your clients, and what skills you need to deliver those that add value.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Why is it important to retain and grow our existing clients?</strong></div><div>So let's step back for a moment and just ask ourselves, why is it important to retain and grow our existing clients? Well, there's a number of statistics on online, some of them you may already be familiar with. But some of the really standout ones is, quite frankly, <strong>it's cheaper</strong> to grow your existing clients. So according to the Harvard Business Review, it's anything from five to 25 times more expensive to go out and get new business. And when you think about it, the cost of pitching is huge. And that's often where we stand a one in four chance of winning the actual business. So it's a huge investment. So it's cheaper to grow the existing account, because they're already familiar with us, and we already understand their business. <strong>It's also more profitable</strong>. Now, according to Bain and Company, if you increase your retention rate of a client by 5%, it can increase the profit margins by between 25 and 95%. So again, retaining your existing business is much more profitable. There's also a study by Gartner that says, 80% of your future sales come from 20% of your existing clients. Now, that is quite an eye opening statistic. So if we are thinking about that, then we really do need to be nurturing, and adding value to these existing clients.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Now, there was a study by Gartner in 2019, that really looked at why accounts don't grow. And the really interesting statistic that came out of that was that, although there's a belief among the account management fraternity that exceptional service leads to account growth, it's proven not to be true. Exceptional service delivery leads to retention, for sure, but it doesn't necessarily lead to growth. And the findings from that study concluded that what you need to grow an account is to have what they call <strong>customer improvement conversations</strong>. And if you are having those customer improvement conversations, then it can increase your account by 48%, and increase the likelihood of renewal or retention by 94%. So increasing your ability to grow an account by 48% is really huge. And so we really should be paying attention to what does a customer improvement conversation really mean?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Customer Improvement Conversations</strong></div><div>So the study defined a customer improvement conversation as three core things. The first thing is to <strong>provide customers or clients with a unique critical perspective</strong>. Now, when you think about that you think about, you know, that could create some tension in your client relationship. If you are providing something unique, and something critical to maybe what they're doing already. But this really is going to move the needle for them, because they're going to suddenly see you differently and see you as someone that can add a huge amount of value, because then you are showing them something that perhaps they hadn't seen before. Point two was for you to <strong>paint a vision of your customers future business</strong>, which means you need to be ahead of the curve looking at trends, looking at the future of their business, so that you can spot opportunities for them to capitalise on, or also avoid challenges that may be coming down the line. And then three to <strong>provide customers with a return on the investment</strong>. Return on investment on the entirety of your relationship. So what I'm going to do now is to talk you through the four levels of client value, and the skills you need to deliver value at each of those levels.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Level one - Deliver a quality service</strong></div><div>So the first level of value that we can give to our clients is to deliver a quality service. And this skill you need to deliver a quality service at this level is to really have an understanding of what your agency does, and a technical understanding of all the services that you deliver. So you will be, for example, you'll be able to link a client problem to an existing client case study in the past where you can cite examples of where you've helped other clients in the past. You'll also have a really good understanding of your client’s internal processes, and particularly their sign off and approval processes, so that you can make sure that you're aligning your processes to them. You'll also understand the difference between your high value products and services, and your low value services. So, for example, if you are a full service agency that does brand strategy, then perhaps a brand strategy workshop is very high value, to do an execution of an ad is low value. So the idea, the concept, the strategy, is very high value, you can usually charge more for it. And understanding the difference between strategy and execution is key. Another example would be perhaps you're an app developer. So it's low value, the actual execution of an app or delivering an app. But actually, if you are consulting with your clients at a very top level, then maybe you're talking to them about their general digital transformation, and their digital strategy. And the app is an execution of what their desired outcome is. So understanding what your own services are in terms of high value and low value is a great starting point.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Similarly, you can, at this level, understand how the agency works in terms of processes. So when you're in front of clients, you really have a good idea if a project comes up of how to execute that project and how to deliver that project seamlessly, to ensure that it gets delivered on time and on budget. And you also have a thorough understanding of how to scope a project, how our cost estimate works, how our purchase order works, how our timing schedule works. So it's all the nuts and bolts, the technical understanding of how you deliver a quality service on time on budget. And that is level one, in terms of what our clients expect from us in terms of value.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Level two - Deliver an exceptional client experience</strong></div><div>Level two value is not only do you deliver a high quality service, but you also deliver an exceptional client experience. And in order to operate at this level to value, you not only understand your services and processes and how they fit in with the client, but you also understand how to manage the relationship with the client and deliver greater service to go over and above. So, in order to do this, you probably would have done some kind of relationship mapping exercise. So you understand all of the clients, the client side, who is involved in the decision making process at the client side, and who's it important for you to establish relationship with. You also understand your own client context pain points, and how they're measured. How are they measured? What are their KPIs, and also you understand their challenges, both internally and externally. So you're always looking to identify areas that you can add value and help them solve their problems. You may have a little, what I call a fuzzy file, a fuzzy file is taking a note of any particular details about the client that will be worth you understanding, a new remembering, so that you can create that rapport with your clients. So for example, if they support a football team, then make a note of that. So you can ask them, the next time you see them, you know, is your team playing this weekend, for example, or maybe they mentioned the name of their son or daughter, and you can repeat it back the next time you speak and say, ‘I remember that you had to disappear to take your son to school, how is Simon?’ You know, using people's names is always really a good way of making sure that they know that you're paying attention, and that you really are interested in them, not only their role, their pain, their role in the business, but also on a personal level.</div><div>In order to understand and operate at a level two value level, then you also you have a very thorough internal client experience, process from the moment that your client joins you. And you have an onboarding process, but all the way through the relationship, so you know what the touch points are. You know, the level of value each point in that relationship, you are consistent, because what this helps to do is to manage your client expectations, and to make sure that their experience of working with you is consistent. Because if you think about it, if they want to maybe refer you to someone else, then they need to make sure that you are going to deliver the same high level of value and experience that they've come to know you for. So making sure that internally you have a very, very clearly defined client experience process.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Level three - Understand the business outcomes</strong></div><div>Now moving on to level three value. So for a client, if you are offering level three value, not only do you offer a high quality service, you not only deliver an exceptional client experience, but you also understand the business outcomes that the client is trying to achieve. And you align your services to help them achieve them. And the client has a return on investment for the relationship. So if you are operating at level three value, you are not only doing everything that we've already discussed, but you're also regularly diagnosing the client, that and their business, to uncover opportunities for you to really make a difference to their bottom line for you to make them money, save them money, save them time, reduce costs, and all of these business outcomes that clients work with us for. So you will understand how to ask the right questions at the right time in the right way to uncover the business outcomes and the business objectives that the client is trying to achieve. You're also researching. So there shouldn't be a client question that you asked that you couldn’t be looking up on Google before you actually get to the client office. So make sure that you really fully understand the client business. And that is typically, you know, looking at the client's website, following the company Chairman online, following all of your client contacts on social and having a Google Alert set up for your company, the company name, maybe the product, maybe the competitor products. And if you're working with a listed company that's on a stock exchange, then you can also look at resources like Seeking Alpha, where you can actually download the C suite transcripts of some of their meetings, and their investor meetings where they're talking about where they're headed, where the company is going, what their long term visions or what their yearly plan is, what their strategic imperatives are. And you can really get a great understanding. So you can actually download those transcripts for free and read them really to understand the company at a very, very senior level. You might also talk to their clients and customers. So you might join focus groups, you might generate some unique first party data to understand their client customer. And customers, you may be doing some kind of listening study to understand more about what their needs are and how their needs are changing. Or you might be talking to other departments within your client company to get their perspective on where the growth areas are in the business and where the challenges are. So for example, if you are dealing with the marketing department, then you may ask to talk to their head of sales, or even go out on the road with one of their sales reps if they're still doing face to face selling. So, really having the skill you need to operate a level three is a level of business acumen and a real thirst to understand the client business from a business perspective, and understanding what they want to achieve. What are the value drivers? How are they, what next year are they focusing their energy and their budget on, and who owns that problem and who owns that challenge to address. So you will be asking for their marketing plans or operational plans. And you understand where their focus is, and what the important issues are for them as a business. Because where you become more valuable is where you really understand, not just thinking about yourself, it's not thinking about your services, it's thinking about their business and how you can add value. And you can share insights.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Level four – Future value creation</strong></div><div>So I hope this is useful so far. And finally, we're moving on to level four value. So level four value is where you do all of the things we've discussed, this isn't one or the other, this is actually building on the skills that you already have. But level four value is about future value creation. So the skill you need is to be a strategic thinker. Future value creation simply means that you are looking ahead of where the client is currently, and you are spotting opportunities for them to capitalise on, or you're identifying challenges where you can help them avoid. So in order to, the skills you need at this level really are to be looking at the environment, to be situationally aware, to be reading about trends, to look at competitive landscape, to be a lot more consultative, to be very proactive in generating ideas of where you think that the client needs to be aware, and what's your point of view, in terms of how you are going to help them solve these problems or capitalise on opportunities. And there was a study done several years ago, and it was led by Tim Williams from Ignition Consulting Group, and he's a pricing strategist for agencies. And there was a big study, it was global, and it was between agencies and clients. And one of the questions that was asked was, Why do you, why do you let go of an agency? And the client said, because they never gave us anything that we didn't ask for. And I think sometimes in agency life, we believe that because we are delivering good value quality service, that that's good enough. But unfortunately, our competitors are waiting in the wings to help our clients solve their biggest problems and challenges. And if we are continuing to be reactive to briefs and just deliver good service, it's no longer enough. So yeah, if you're operating a level four you are, you've got an analytical mind, you're looking at trends. And a little tip here is I think trends. You know, you can google what trends there are, both in your business, but also how they relate to the client's business. So for example, if you look at management consultancy websites, they tend to have a lot of people that are part of these generations of reports. So PriceWaterhouseCooper,s Accenture, McKinsey, Ernst and Young, Bain and Company are just a handful of those websites that you can refer to, because often they publish reports about different market segments. So there may be segments in the market, and there certainly have been recently ,that you can look at to identify maybe what the customer trends are, what the market trends are, what's changing, what you know, a lot of people have been talking about digital transformation this year, particularly in 2020. So we you know what, what is changing for your client and what can you bring to their attention. Think about the customer insight that you can find out that your client didn't know. Think about the market trends that you can find out more about and help educate your client. And I think education is huge. If you are looking to grow your existing accounts, because anything that you can educate your client on, is going to stand you in good stead for being positioned more as a trusted adviser, rather than an order taker.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>So I hope these four level of levels of value, and the four sets of skills that I think are really important in order to deliver that value, has been useful. And this is step one, all about a value ladder in my Account Accelerator Programme. My Account Accelerator Programme has been running since 2016. It is for you if you're an agency account manager with at least two to three years experience, if you’re an account director and you have to be responsible for existing client growth. It's a three month programme, it's weekly calls. And I literally give you the tools, techniques, strategies, and you end up with a plan after that 90 days in how you can grow your existing accounts.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><strong>Account Accelerator Programme</strong></div><div>So there are nine steps. And the first step is the <strong>value ladder</strong>, which we've just briefly discussed, where we actually sit down and develop relevant ideas for you to proactively take to your clients. So you're definitely increase the client's perception of value for your role and your services. The next step is <strong>relationship mapping</strong>, where you will ultimately save time by focusing your account growth actions, on the right opportunities, the right clients, because otherwise, it's a scattergun approach, where, and I know this is one of the push backs that a lot of agency account managers say, I don't have time, I don't have time. So we need to make sure that you are spending your time in the right areas. The next step of the Account Accelerator Programme is <strong>client diagnosis</strong>. And this is where you'll increase your confidence in client interactions, and ask the right questions to uncover the right growth opportunities. And I give you a framework for asking those questions. The next step is <strong>referrals blueprint</strong>, and this is where you'll ultimately feel really comfortable about asking for referrals. Referrals are really, really important in terms of growing your existing accounts. And statistically, according to an Agencynomics report, 30% of growth comes from your clients referring you to others, or leaving the client company and taking you with them. So in order to master referrals, it's really important that we are able to say them in the right way, and ask for them in the right way. The next step in the Account Accelerator Programme is all about <strong>client stories</strong>. So you'll increase your client's receptiveness to your suggestions and ideas, because part of interacting with clients is making sure that you are proposing ideas in the right way, without any resistance from your client. The next step is all about client experience. And you will ultimately reduce your uncertainty of which growth strategy is right for which client. So we literally give you a toolbox of strategies and tactics to use for growth. And the next few steps are <strong>your authority builder</strong>. So we'll make sure that you raise your personal profile. And so that you're interacting with your clients in the right way, not just in person, but also online. Your <strong>risk management</strong> is the next step. So risk management is all about how to reduce the client relationship risk, because the last thing we want to do is make all this effort to develop our client relationships when ultimately, we also need to be mitigating the risk against losing them. And then finally, we pull everything together into a practical, short, usable <strong>client growth plan</strong>.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>One of the things that I hear time and time again, from account managers account directors is that they have a plan for growth, a client development plan, but it's so unwieldy and so huge, that frankly, they don't use it and it gets left on their desk. So if you would like some more information about the Account Accelerator Programme, there's limited numbers. We're kicking off in January, on January the 12th 2021. And there are going to be different account managers and account directors from different agencies who are very enthusiastic. They want to accelerate their career. They want to be able to add more value to their existing clients, and they don't want to be coming across as salesy, but ultimately, they are responsible for account growth. So if this sounds like you then please get in touch. It's jenny @accountmanagementskills.com or send me a message on LinkedIn. It's Jenny Plant. So I hope you found this valuable. I'd love to hear from you. And I will see you on the next episode.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2020 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/98n20048.mp3" length="26721092" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/0ed74f20-38d2-11eb-aee1-cda3ee6e49bd/0ed75060-38d2-11eb-aff2-57640d058cba.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>1335</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>In this solo episode I talk through the four steps of the client value ladder and the skills you need to deliver value at every level. 

It's particularly relevant for you if you are managing the day to day client relationships but are also responsible for account growth and delivering on your agency's forecast.

Many of us in agency account management know that acquiring a new client is 5 to 25 times more expensive than retaining an existing one (1) &amp; increasing client retention rate by 5% increases profit by 25% to 95% (2), but another study by Gartner reported that a whopping 80% of a company's future sales will be derived from 20% of their existing client base! (3).

This makes the skill of growing existing business very important.

What's less well known, and also shown in another study by Gartner called 'Why your accounts aren't growing and what to do about it', is that the account management skills required to retain accounts are DIFFERENT to those required to grow (4). 

The report showed that providing exceptional service leads to retention, not growth.

This means that as agency account managers we need to be thinking about how we need to behave differently if we're responsible for growing our existing accounts.

The report concluded that mastering “client improvement conversations” increases your ability to grow an account by 48% and increases likelihood of renewal or retention of spend by 94% (4).

If handled poorly or indelicately however these conversations could damage relationships and trust (4).

'Value improvement conversations' are defined by the three following actions:

1. Provide customers with a unique, critical perspective
2. Paint a vision of the customer's future business
3. Provide customers with an ROI on the entirety of the relationship

I hope you enjoy this episode and come away with ideas for the skills you need to develop or that you are indeed on the right track with your client development strategy.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>In this solo episode I talk through the four steps of the client value ladder and the skills you need to deliver value at every level. 

It's particularly relevant for you if you are managing the day to day client relationships but are also responsible for account growth and delivering on your agency's forecast.

Many of us in agency account management know that acquiring a new client is 5 to 25 times more expensive than retaining an existing one (1) &amp; increasing client retention rate by 5% increases profit by 25% to 95% (2), but another study by Gartner reported that a whopping 80% of a company's future sales will be derived from 20% of their existing client base! (3).

This makes the skill of growing existing business very important.

What's less well known, and also shown in another study by Gartner called 'Why your accounts aren't growing and what to do about it', is that the account management skills required to retain accounts are DIFFERENT to those required to grow (4). 

The report showed that providing exceptional service leads to retention, not growth.

This means that as agency account managers we need to be thinking about how we need to behave differently if we're responsible for growing our existing accounts.

The report concluded that mastering “client improvement conversations” increases your ability to grow an account by 48% and increases likelihood of renewal or retention of spend by 94% (4).

If handled poorly or indelicately however these conversations could damage relationships and trust (4).

'Value improvement conversations' are defined by the three following actions:

1. Provide customers with a unique, critical perspective
2. Paint a vision of the customer's future business
3. Provide customers with an ROI on the entirety of the relationship

I hope you enjoy this episode and come away with ideas for the skills you need to develop or that you are indeed on the right track with your client development strategy.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What you need to know about the evolution of branding, with Bill Wallsgrove</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/x8y1x098</link>
      <itunes:title>What you need to know about the evolution of branding, with Bill Wallsgrove</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>11</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">l04l3pm0</guid>
      <description>If you have an interest in branding, feel your agency brand needs a makeover or you're looking for help to offer branding workshops to your clients,  this episode is for you.

Bill Wallsgrove has been helping companies with branding for 30 years.

He's worked on some of the most exciting and well known brands such as Heineken, Budweiser and Benetton to name just a few and has held Creative Director roles for some of the most prestigious strategic design agencies such as Coley Porter Bell and Future Brand.

He has been guiding agencies with their brands for years and his brand consultancy services include mentoring the likes of Studio Blup (recently bought by the LAB Group) known for their work with brands like Nike, MTV and Ministry of Sound.

Today I pick his brains on everything branding related and ask him to share his thoughts, opinions and observations about how branding has changed during his career.  

In this episode Bill chats to me about:

* His definition of a brand
* Why he disagrees with many companies who believe they need a brand purpose 
* What a 'digital first' approach to branding means
* How brands and the process of branding has changed over the years
* Why we are in the third generation of branding and examples of brands who are leading the field
* Why and how he works with agencies to help them with their brands
* Why he believes agencies need account managers and some tips for great account management

....and lots more.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:<br></strong><br></div><div>Jenny: So today I'm delighted to have Bill Wallsgrove, who is a bit of a guru I'd say in the branding world. He has over 30 years experience helping companies with branding. And now he helps agencies established their brands. And that's particularly one of the reasons I wanted to invite him along today was to talk a little bit more about this. Bill has such an impressive background that I struggled to pick out some key points in his career to kind of highlight, but there are a couple of things. One, you were Creative Director for Coley Porter Bell and also Future Bands. Obviously, run your own branding consultancy for many, many years. And you have a lot of experience both in paint and branding beers. And some of the names are Heineken, Budweiser, Pils. You've also worked on Benetton, B&amp;Q, and I'm sure hundreds of others. You also run workshops for agencies to establish their brand. And you're also a university lecturer, I don't know where you find the time to do that. Is if that wasn't enough, you also advise agencies. So you sit on the board of a couple of agencies, one of which is Studio Blup as non-exec. So Bill, welcome to the show. I'm really delighted to have someone with such experience here. So thank you for joining me.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: Thank you. That's just a great introduction. And I feel like it's like if I was on stage, I'd say, Hello, London town!<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny:&nbsp; You can still say that. But I will always say, would you mind spending a couple of minutes first of all, just kind of filling in the gaps to your background and experience?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: Yeah, well, it's interesting what you say, I'm not a university lecturer. I'm a visiting lecturer at several art colleges, universities, and one of the lectures I give is all about personal branding. And personal branding is really to help some third year students think about how they brand themselves to go out to the world, how they launch themselves, how they celebrate their differences and their unique qualities. And one of the slides I put up is saying, ‘where I never knew that I'd be where I am now 30 years ago’, because you know, here am I now a brand consultant, specialising in digital strategy for agencies. And talking about personal branding, talking about colour theory. These are not things I started out doing. When I kind of left school, I went to art college, to be a graphic designer. And that was a pretty difficult choice because I also was offered a place to do history, which is my other passion, at University. Well, I told my father, I said, Look, I'm not going to take the history place. I'm gonna go to art school he said, and I've used this adage before, he said, you know, go to art school, you'll never get a career out of that. Also it's, it's it's sex, drugs and rock and roll. I said, Dad, you just sold it to me.<br><br></div><div>Brilliant account management. So yeah, I went to art school and thought I wanted to go into advertising. In fact, I did, I spent, after I left art school, I went to the creative department at Ogilvy and Mather.<br><br></div><div>And I was there for about three or four months, I really didn't like advertising. I didn't like being in a creative department that had no contact with the clients. And I was talking to friends about it. And they said, Well, you ought to go work, maybe for more branding agency. And you know, you're not stuck in advertising. I then went to work for a very small agency before I joined Coley Porter Bell and really enjoyed it because with a small agency, you were both creating, and also presenting your work to clients. And I began to realise my passion was not just about the creative work itself, but also being passionate about explaining why the creative solutions, right from clients, I began to enjoy talking about why creativity, creativity mattered. And I went on to be creative director at Coley Porter Bell. And I was stopped one day by my managing director who said, and she was a very bright woman, she said, you know, Bill, I think you're wasted in the studio. And I thought I'd been told off, you know, you know, you're no good. And she actually didn't mean that as well. She said, you're much more valuable to us selling design to our clients, than you are actually being stuck on the drawing board as it was then and then the computer. And I began to think about so I went back and told my wife this and she said, Oh yeah, she's right. You know, you're passionate about your subjects and obviously, you know, she’d seen when I've been out with friends at dinner parties and describing the latest projects, I'm working on how passionate I was about. And so I kind of moved from being a creative to by default, being a sort of client manager, if you like and managing fairly large accounts at the time, which included things like Dulux Paint, Holsten Pils, which is where the beer and paint thing started. And several other brands like Nestle and Unilever and retail brands like Tesco and began to become really interested in, then I started reading up about the theories of branding realising that I couldn't just talk about design, I had to talk about why design worked for business.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>So then began to read books like The Big Idea and, and Fishing in the Deep Water and several other books, which were all about how brands have to differentiate themselves and it's interesting Coley Porter Bell was a great place to sort of start my career because it was a strategic design agency, which was one of the sort of pioneers in the 90s actually talking about strategy and design. Which is why in the end they were bought by WPP, because Martin Sorrell could see that see what capable trying to do had a very close link to what his agencies were doing. So ironically, I started working with Ogilvy and Mather again. You can't get rid of it. So since then, is it okay to carry on?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>So since then, after WPP bought Coley Porter Bell, I didn't like being in the larger agency group to be fair. And that's when I then broke away and formed my first agency. When I say formed, I didn't, it was an existing product design company. But I joined it as a partner to introduce graphics and branding, its product design. And that was particularly important for new product development, particularly when you're doing beer brands where you’re both creating brand new bottle shapes, which is the product design part, but also creating the branding. And of course, the bottle shape is part of the branding there. It's what we use called 2D and 3D means 60. It's the kind of it's how it comes together. So became passionate about new product development. And obviously, the branding as part of that. We had that for about eight years before we sold that to Interpublic, which is the McCann Erickson agency, we then sort of sidled up alongside McCann Erickson. And again, I realised I didn't like being part of an agency group. And that was my kind of, I guess it was my kind of midlife crisis, as I never really want to work for anyone ever again, I quite enjoyed running my own agency. So that's what I should be doing. So ever since then, I've had several other consultancies. But now I'm an independent brand consultant.<br><br></div><div>I think somebody described you know, the hitting 40 moment as being you want to only work for yourself, means that you've decided you're unemployable, which I think was probably what I meant. Because I was too opinionated.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: There’s nothing wrong with that, Bill. There's so much that I want to dive into. And before I start asking my questions that I've kind of established, I want to pick up on something you said about strategic design. And I talk a lot to agency account managers about talking the language of the C suite, you know, talking the language of business outcomes. And I would just love your thoughts. If you can explain to me, how do you, perhaps you don't need to, but how can you convince the C suite? That design has a place at the table, that it's going to actually make a difference to the bottom line?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: It's a good point, I guess it's why almost all projects that I've been involved in for the last 15 years always start with a brand workshop, which is actually when you sit around table, with all the key stakeholders and work out what's the current status of the business? What's the current status of the brand? What are the things we need to do which define what the communication creative briefs should be? Because obviously, a design is only as good as the brief. But of course, everything is designed. You know, you can't say design isn't at the table. Because there's nothing that isn't designed, everything we see around us is designed by somebody. Because design doesn't just mean drawing, design from the dictionary term means problem solving. So design doesn't mean you have to actually draw something design means you have to solve a design. Scientists use design to solve things like creating a vaccine, you know, the brief was, how are you going to create something which is going to attack this particular virus? And what are the solutions? So it's design and through experiments, you come up with the right answer. But why strategic design, which I think is more key to your question, is if strategy really means, you know, very basic marketing means, what are you trying to sell? Who’re you trying to communicate to where do they gather? What do you want them to do? What's the call for action? It's very simple. It's why I almost hate the word digital marketing is because it's all marketing, it's selling to people. And it's knowing, you know, you've got to motivate people, you've got to provide them with information and stuff, which is going to engage them and make them buy something or make them do something. And design is both the process and obviously one of the outputs.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: This is great. And the other question I was going to ask you was a lot of people have different interpretations of what a brand is, you know, and I know there's lots of descriptions of how to explain what is a brand? How do you define a brand?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: Yeah, well, I think for me a brand is a price. And I agree with you the problem for me with a lot of sort of brand strategy stuff is there have been so many things going around the world of branding in terms of, you know, is it a brand mission, a brand vision, a brand proposition, value, and people get confused by the terminology. And for me, it's about a promise delivered. That's what a brand should be. And my latest bugbear, I guess is a lot of people talking about it seems to be en vogue. In vogue, whatever the phrase is? I think En Vogue were a group, that’s my DJ past! In vogue is to talk about brand purpose. And I kind of get slightly irritated by that. Because some brands do have a purpose or some brands don't. You know, I'm working for an engineering company at the moment. And they do fantastic engineering, it's high precision customised engineering. And they said, What's our brand purpose, I said, I don't think you have got a brand purpose, you've got a brand promise, which is to do highly efficient robotic engineering. And they went Okay, that's fine. Whereas I'm working on another brand, which is all about combustible packaging. Now, that definitely has a purpose. Because what it's trying to do is reduce packaging waste, it's a purpose is about giving something back to society. Now, whether it's environmental, or community or some, a purpose, I think is a much more human or Earth bound thing. It's not about you know, if you're just making widgets, you don't have a purpose, you have a promise that we're going to make the very best widgets. And we're about efficiency. So I think promise and relevance is what branding is about. I personally use something which I love, which I kind of used and going back to the personal branding side, which is I like the term Ikigai. Do you know the term Ikigai? Yeah, I've used it in lots of brand workshops. And it's a very simple thing. It’s Japanese philosophy. And it, it asks, but it's really Ikigai means your reason for getting up in the morning. What motivates you? And if it was a Venn diagram, sorry I’ll draw a Venn diagram in the air, and then it's got four component parts, and it's What are you good at? What do you love? What does the world need, and What can be rewarded for. And at the heart of that is your Ikigai. And Ikigai really means your personal sense of purpose. And those people I think, who find their Ikigai early enough, they do find things, they're really good at things they love, things that they really need to provide things that people need, and they can be rewarded for it. They're going to be happy in what they do. I think when you're doing something, which doesn't suit your Ikigai, that's when there's a sort of dysfunctionality. So I tend to use Ikigai to define, not just purpose, but your kind of mission. What's your role? What’s a brand's role, and if a brand defines what its role is, it will then define what it needs to promise to people and then deliver that promise, and brands fail and they don't deliver the promise that they sell.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: Do you think that too many companies right now are thinking we have to have a purpose? Because there seems to be a rise in brands having to have some bigger purpose, then?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: I think so I think, well, I'm not saying it's the Emperor's New Clothes, but a bit of me thinks that people try and oversell it. I think purpose is very clear. There are some brands for the purpose. And there's some brands who don't say some businesses that do and some don't, maybe that's me just being very black and white about it. But I do think that when you strive to, you know, give a fizzy drink a sense of purpose, you know, and the way you justify is saying, you know, we liberate people, you know, and let them express themselves, I kind of go, no you’re just a fizzy drink. And I'm sorry, it's you know, I love marketing, but I can also see through the bullshit.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: I love that you've said that because it almost seems sometimes a bit contrived, doesn't it?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: That's my problem. And of course, the great thing about marketing now is people are very marketing savvy, I hate the kind of Z generation or Millennials or whatever you want to call it, but they're very aware about how they're being marketed to. And I think if you strive to over market, and you don't use human terms to describe what you're trying to do, because brands succeed, now, if they're discovered, they don't really succeed by selling hard to people, people discover brands now. And also, they like peers, peer to peer recommendations as well. So I think trying to sell purpose when you really don't have one absolutely is probably, it makes me cringe. It's like scraping nails on a blackboard to me, though, I can see through what you're doing. It's just it doesn't work.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: I think if everyone's honest, I think that's the same kind of impact that it has on individuals as well. So moving on to thinking about brands, the actual, how do you think branding, the process of branding, and also brands themselves have evolved over the lifespan of your career thus far?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: Yeah, it's a really interesting thing. I mean, I read an article recently about sort of three generations of branding. And I thought what was great about that was it sort of&nbsp; it kind of clearly says because when you think about the history branding, branding sort of started with almost you know, what it is it's putting a mark on your animal in a field. It's or, you know, the Romans use branding for various things, But branding sort of post war and I think post war is really where branding kind of took off in America in particularly, and obviously spread across to here was all sort of fast moving consumer good lead. And it was all about product performance, and it was all about aspiration. And it was branding was about ownership of something, of course, it was about owning a product or service. And then it was about giving that message out. And that's why all the classic kind of David Ogilvy advertising stuff, which is all about pushing messaging out, which engaged people. And that feels, to me, that was the kind of first generation of branding. It kind of really changed, I think, at the turn of the century into now, when I say turn of the century, that's my history thing coming back up. But I think now it's much more about customer, it was much more about customer experience. And it was much more service led. And I think you found things like financial services, and computer companies and hotel groups and airlines started talking, and coffee brands, started talking much more about service and the experience of that brand. You know, how did Starbucks grow so quickly? Well, they branded what should be very simple process, which is buying a cup of coffee. And I think we've gone past that now. Whereas I think what's happened now is moved and particularly with the huge success of the technology companies, we've moved into this third generation, which is much more entertainment led. And it's much more about a kind of engaging people's intention. Apple, of course, the past masters of that, and I hate to say like many brand consultants, I use that example. Because, you know, Apple said very early on Steve Jobs said we're about think different. We're not about selling computers, we're selling to consumers, what they can do with our computers. How can they be creative? What music can they create? What designs can they create? What films can they create? So the think different was trying to be almost anti technology and saying, we're empowering you because we made a computer system, if you don't have to be nerdish to understand, sorry, for the nerds out there. Thats kind of what I think it is now. And I think that's why tech brands have used much more of the elements of the entertainment industry. When Apple do new product launched, it's like a new film being launched. Or it's like a, you know, it's like everyone I know last night was waiting for the for the new episodes of the Crown on Netflix. God, I even put it in my diary, The Crown’s gonna be on, but I think brands now use much more about that. It’s not my thinking. There's several people writing about this kind of three generations of branding. And I think they have moved from the hard sell of products, then the experience of being with the products. And that's much more about the expectation, and particularly as a lot of successful brands now are not tangible things. I mean, Google massive brand, but we think it's a free service. It's not a free service. It's Google, you are part of the brand now. It wants to own information about you, you are the content. And so you know, and I think it's interesting how brands that were traditionally FMCG brands are desperately trying to catch up with that sort of, you know, so to use my fizzy drink, I will call it out but when Pepsi Cola did that awful ad, I think a year ago, which was sort of young people marching, protesting in the street, not protesting about anything, it's just, you know, we're Pepsi. We're providing people with the power to go on the street in protest. Of course, there's blank signs, not really protesting anything. And that's when going back to the two things I was talking about, it's trying to pretend you've got purpose, your fizzy drink is motivating people to go and talk about revolution on the streets. And also, you know, trying to pretend you're involved in entertainment that you’re not. It's just sort of, don't try and pretend you're you know, and the problem is young marketeers, I think jump on a bandwagon very quickly, and they say, we've got to have a purpose. We've got to be relevant. We've got to, and they don't stick to their knitting. No, maybe maybe this is just me being the Victor Meldrew of branding? You know,&nbsp; you can see through it and and I kind of watch how my my son engages with branding as well. And you know him growing up just seeing the brands that meant stuff to him and the fact that I don't think he has ever really looked at a laptop. I think he uses his mobile phone for everything.<br><br></div><div>And the brands that he has loved and liked have been usually fashion brands, music brands, you know, Spotify is big to him it's just, he’s not particularly you know, I can wax lyrical about, you know, the history of fast moving consumer goods. How Unilever, with Sunlight was one of the first kind of brands, but it doesn't mean anything to him. You know, it's, I'm interested in the history. He's actually interested in, you know, what engages with me, you know, what, what do I use? And I remember when he first, you know, said left us with him about 10 years ago, who can probably have got the timing wrong. And we've had dinner I said, I'll just go and get a taxi and he said, No, I'll get you getting an Uber. What? So, you know, he was introducing me to brands long before I knew about them.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: I love this, there's so much. I love that third, you know, first, second and third generation branding, I think that's really clear to understand. I mean, just this, I don't know if you've got one off the top of your head. But given that we are in this third generation, it's all about entertainment and expectation. And I can certainly see from my partner’s son, actually, following fashion brands, they have the drop of the new range of clothing that everyone's lining up in the streets for, so I can see what you're saying about this. Do you think that there are any FMCG type brands that are doing that well?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: That's a really interesting one. No, is my honest... I've kind of gone..it's more kind of retailers. I think online retailers who have been smarter than anyone at engaging people, I don't think FMCG brands themselves. And I think actually, there are things like good design on shelf and standout, good packaging, and good advertising still matters. You know, I don't think these things are dead. And of course, advertising doesn't it could be just a fantastic YouTube campaign. It could be just a fantastic. But you know, wouldn't it be great if they got podcasters like you, or bloggers talking about how great their brands were to people who actually bought into them? You know, I know that my partner's youngest daughter, who's she, she does fantastic. She sells fashion through Bing Bong and bang bap that I don't know what it is, I don't know what it's called. And she uses Tik Tok and I have to admit, I'm lost now. Whatever you're doing, you’re doing it well. But you know, she seems to love watching people dancing in her clothes that she's made.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: And before I go on to how you help agencies, specifically, I want to kind of pick up a little bit further on this because you work with Studio Blup, I had to look them up, to be honest. But I realised how trendy they are and how kind of what a famous youth brand they are. So on this point about, you know, the third generation branding and your experience with guiding Studio Blup, can you kind of just give us a little bit of background on how you help them and what they're doing that's different?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: Yeah, I mean, in a way, Studio Blup has been sort of a happy accident for me and serendipity. I discovered them because they did a website that I admired for a client of mine. And I said, How did you find it and find these people? And I think it was through a connection through college students or whatever. And said, Well, I'd love to go and see them found out they were in Islington, went up to see them and got on with them, like house on fire. And we started talking away and they're a different generation from me, they were probably 10 years out of, or eight or 10 years out of college, and just doing some fantastic stuff. And they were sort of founded on the basis of being much more sort of design and illustration agency, because the creative director came from a background of graffiti design. And he had lots of friends in the sort of grime industry, the music industry. And so they were being used by brands like Nike and Universal for doing great social media campaigns. And when I started talking to them, they said, well, we'd really like some help on two things. One is more on our direction. So I’m no longer a non executive director, by the way, I'll explain why. A non executive director was always a kind of inverted commas more, I was more a mentor for them. And they wanted to think about how to repurpose themselves to make their brand more relevant. And they wanted to add in branding services to what they were doing. So I started doing brand workshops for them. Because brand workshop helps clarify the brief, they were very frustrated that some of the briefs they were getting were pretty fuzzy. And, you know, I when I was at Future Brand, we were forever offering writing the briefs for our clients service, because actually sometimes clients know they want to do something but actually writing the brief is a really hard thing to do. And so I started doing brand workshops to help clarify the brief, of course, they could add that as an additional conscious consultancy service into their fee basis. So I was both a mentor but also doing projects with them. But for them, I began to say stop trying to pretend you're a design company. It's quite obvious you're not a design company in the classic sense, what you are is a much more like a style house. You have a very idiosyncratic style, which people really love because it's relevant. It's now it's funky, cool, fab I can use all the 60s groovy words you want. But it was a very engaging style and their social media reach was huge. Their Instagram page is fantastic. And I said, instead of saying we are another design company, because there's hundreds of them knocking on the same doors, why don't you say that we are a style house. And that we're rooted in, in in culture that we, you know, we, we look at the streets we absorb it, and we put it back into our designs. And almost say, we have our own distinctive style, if you want some of that come and work with BLUP, but because nobody else has it. Not, we're another design company knocking on your door. And so we kind of pushed that further that that they are a style house with this unique way of remixing things. If you look at their work, and I would say look at their Instagram page, because the website isn't the key thing, really. Their following on, on their Instagram page is huge. And the fact they get so many projects from people going, we really like what you're doing. And they're hugely cheeky as well, in terms of, you know, they started doing what they called Disney remixes, which were taking, and I know, Dines the creative director loves, like me, he's got a love comic books and cartoons, all that kind of stuff. And they did these Disney remixes. And they got approached by Disney and I thought, Oh, my god, they're going to be sued? And they said we love your stuff. You know, would you do some work with us? So it's that kind of it's, it's an attitude, which is not that we’re yet another design agency, we have our own style. And if you buy into it, we can prove that people really follow it. And so much so that they started managing some of their clients’ social media accounts as well.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: Wow, do you know, as you're talking, I was just thinking of a slight sort of a different industry, but a similar kind of thing where, you know, George Northwood. I get my hair done at George Northwood. And if you go to George Northwood, it's a type of cut that you get, you know, they cut all in the same way in George Northwood style. He's really very popular on social media, he does some stars. And it's a similar kind of thing, what you're just describing, and I, I don't know whether many others sort of, you've called them a style house, but originally, they were a design agency, that have that kind of, you come to us, and we will help you with all the way WE do this, that's going to keep you relevant. Do you know anyone else that's doing that?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: No, but I’ll just finish, but I will go on to that. But BLUP the other thing they were doing, which I thought was great is because their other passion is not just design and illustration, and graffiti, and video and all that kind of stuff, animation. But they love clothes, and fashion. And so very early on, they started doing their own fashion items. So when you go to the BLUP site, it's not just to look at their work, you can buy a T shirt, or a bag or a hat or whatever. And I thought that was extraordinary. And I thought it was just a sort of vanity luxury bit of project. But weirdly enough, the fact they do that makes them appear more like a style fashion house. In fact, their clothes have been very popular with the community they know. So in the grime community, you know, and they gave samples out, and it's very, very clever marketing, so much so they did a pop up shop last year, just to test it in Soho and sold out all the items within the three to four weeks. So I think the analogy of because if you think about it, you know, I know, my partner has particular fashion brands that she buys into, and you know, she will constantly look either online or in store, see what the fashion brands are doing. And I think that's what people do with BLUP. So and, of course, there's still a very good creative design house, they do great identities and stuff, but I think it's kind of you’ve got to buy into the BLUP way. And so much so part of their success and I'd like to think I contributed part of that as a mentor, is they were bought by the Lab group at the beginning of this year, actually during lockdown, which is extraordinary. But that's because Johnny Tooz. who is the chairman of the Lab group he was also another mentor to BLUP, the managing director, Alex. And you know, they were kind of chatting away about what the future was. And I think Johnny must have had a eureka moment. He said, why don't you join our group. Because the Lab group is one of the companies that I really admire, what they're trying to do is build up this sort of digitech way of approaching branding, which is what I call all brands should be doing this now which is having a digital first approach to branding. Much as i say i hate digital marketing, I do, the terminology of digital marketing, but you have to understand and particularly when brands are becoming critically aware of this lockdown has exposed, this things won't change after lockdown. You know, all sorts of things that happen the way people work from home, the way people buy things, the way people engage with things, you know, as soon as who you know, who's the biggest suffer when they announced this potentially a vaccine, Zoom shares must have dropped you know?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: What is a digital first approach to branding?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: I guess the prime example of that, I'll say Apple, I won't use them again. But Airbnb would be one that I would say is that it starts off with is, what's the first thing you see on Airbnb is probably the app on your phone. Okay, so if you work backwards from what's the app on our phone, and we have to have a distinctive app on our phone, and brand backwards from there, you know, how then does that identity express itself across different social platforms, how does it engage as a website, you know. I used Uber, you can use Deliveroo, all these brands have realised it's about digital first. Whereas a lot of the companies I'm working for now haven't thought about that, because they designed their identity maybe 15-20 years ago, when it was much more print based world. So the identity actually can't be transformed to a digital first brand. So most of the work that we're doing particularly a lot of work here in Brighton, my other part of my job is with a company called New Juice, and almost all the work but we're much more sort of, say a classic, purist, typography based company, we create classic identities, but we are a digital agency as well. So we work from what's the smallest place your brand is going to be seen. You know, it's going to be if you're a B2B business, it's going to be your website, and probably your LinkedIn page. So work out that how those things work. And also, from a digital first point of view, realise that don't put repetitive copy in because Google doesn't like that. Make sure you say the same thing but you say in various different ways. So you begin to, digital first means make sure that your identity works at the finest point it has to, work backwards from there but also think clearly about the words that you use, you know, understand how organic search works. And so there are a lot of tools of how digital branding works that you need to incorporate in your next generation of branding. So literally, I love working on brand new briefs and working on some great ones at the moment. But I love working with companies who actually come to a realisation that actually, probably we need to go into the next generation of our branding, it just is not fit for purpose anymore.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: This is so fascinating. I'm loving it. And to that point, there's obviously agency owners, leaders listening to this thinking, I love what Bill's saying. And actually, the first question for you is, why would an agency come to you about their own brand, when a lot of them are experts in themselves?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: Actually, weirdly, it came about, I've done more for Brighton agencies and I have for London agencies, it came from BLUP experience, I didn't change the way BLUP looked, but I changed the way they talked. It's a different thing. Sometimes because when you're not an employee or a shareholder or a director, you can see the wood for the trees, it's what consulting is you can stand back and be more objective. And sometimes, so when I was trying to explain the benefit of using brand workshops, quite often, an agency would go, can you do a brand workshop on us because it's a bit like doing a health check or an MOT. It's just going where we are fit for purpose. And of course, when you do a brand workshop for an agency, and I've done several now,&nbsp; I've done four or five here in Brighton the last two years. They're just checking from an objective point of view that it's not that they don't have the skills themselves. But quite often, you know what it's like when you've got your own business, you're immersed in it. And sometimes you just want it's a bit like having you know, and my joke is, you know, being a consultant is stealing someone's watch and telling them the time. You’re not telling them anything they don't know, but they quite like having it as a health check.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: I so see that. And being a consultant myself, it's so true. And you're right, you get so immersed in your own business. You cannot see it objectively, you cannot see the wood for the trees. So I love that. Can you, I mean, do any particular agencies spring to mind apart from obviously the ones that we've mentioned, that do their own brand really well.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: Yeah, I think my my favourite agency at the moment is one called You and Mr. Jones. Do you know You and Mr. Jones?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: I don't actually, it kind of rings a bell.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: Well, I think what's clever about, they're an American agency, and they were founded by<br><br></div><div>somebody who's rooted like you in advertising, but began to realise the world they call themselves you know, they are helping brands through digitech. They're helping brands understand how to use all the skills out there to be more effective. I love the brand name as well mainly because I'm a soul fan. So you know if it's a Billy Paul, Me and Mrs. Jones, it used to be when I was a DJs to be the song I played at the end. You know, it's what they call the dance section. There's another phrase for it, which I use.<br><br></div><div>Jenny: How did you how did you manage to squeeze in DJing as well?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: I've been an owner of a house music label. I've been an investor in a nightclub I've yeah well, no, it's kind of you follow your hobbies. I mean, look, I couldn't, I failed miserably at the things I really wanted to do if you want to know my Ikigai. So I'm not centre forward for England, never was, never played for Arsenal. And, you know, was never, you know, successful drummer in a band. So all of which I've tried. And you know, what they say about people who fail at being musicians themselves, they become DJs. You realise, you know, you’re not going to make your own music, play other peoples.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: So I completely cut cross you there. So You and Mr. Jones is…<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: It's worth looking at their website. It's just I think they're very clever. And I’d say the Lab group are probably following a similar model whereby it's much more using thinking about neuroscience, thinking about behaviour. You know, it's much more, you can't motivate people if you don't know more about psychology about what motivates people. And I think so it combines this, I think You and Mrs. Jones do it very well, which is, is it combines research, it combines constantly having your finger on the pulse in terms of how platforms are changing. It requires creative solutions to navigate those. So they're what are called post advertising agency. Because I think the old advertising agency model is dead, but that's another thing.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: Okay, brilliant. I'm gonna have to look them up. And if there's an agency leader thinking, I love what Bill saying, and I would love to work with him on my brand. Can you just give us a kind of brief overview of how you approach that task?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: Yeah, well, I mean, with, I'll go back, it's good question. I'll go back to why I've worked with some agencies in the past. One agency I worked with, they wanted to reframe what they were doing, because their agency name, I won't name them, was the two partners names, and the two partners have fallen out. So the remaining partner wanted to then reframe what the agency was about and rename it, of course. So that was a very specific task. So I don't just work on agencies,&nbsp; the reason I do it with agencies is to help them sell brand workshops as part of their service. And I say I do run workshops with them to show them the process. But go back to the reason you’d want some third party help, some objectivity, is because you've obviously decided you, you either want to change your proposition or your promise, or you want to add existing services, or you want to go to new markets, or there'll be a different reason. And like anything until you ask the right questions, you can't come up with the right answer. Everything is, I like the word bespoke. But that's the fashion telling, it's probably customised. Everything has to be customised. The problem is every problem is different. It shares similar things, because branding, you know, branding is like tree rings, or fingerprints, everyone has a unique fingerprint, and every tree has a unique tree ring. But they exist, and we know why they exist.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: And is the process of working with that agency. Do you do what you mentioned before about getting all the stakeholders around the table to do that process with you? And if so, how long does that take?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: The classic brand workshop is probably about three days, and it will be the first day would be me researching the competition and researching the category. And if this is I do this for clients, as well as agencies as I say, it would be, you know, let me go and find out how the world sees you in this sea of other brands that you're competing with, you know, tell me who you think your key competitors are. And in that, I'll also probably look at some other categories as well, where other people are doing good stuff. So that audit and research happens first, research is really critical for any workshop. That means you go into a workshop with a few preconceived ideas. And this is what I've seen and observed, what do you think? So it's like putting a straw man into the conversation, which allows the stakeholders around the table then to go actually, yeah, and, of course, in a brand workshop, there's no wrong or right. You know, it should be a sense of everyone can just bring ideas to the table. And quite often you'll find somebody who's maybe more junior has really bright idea for the business. And the workshop actually brings it to the surface where I guess that's a really bright idea, whether it may not have come out of the normal systems, you know, within the office, you know, it's a chance to talk about our brand or our business in a kind of objective, consistent, the workshop can be a half day or a full day. And of course, a lot of these workshops now being done by Zoom. But of course, you can do that with the audit and questionnaire, then the Zoom call. And then the third part is the report which comes after which will be based on everything that everyone said, This is what you said, this seems to be the consensus. This is the criteria for the brief that you've set yourself, which is usually a new communication strategy. It could be, you know, a new look, it could be, so a creative brief. So it's three parts and say it's the research the activity which is the most critical part and then the honest, objective review of what you all collectively said. So putting, like I said, it's the watch back to you, isn't it? It's, it's almost putting the mirror and saying this is what you are. And this is what you say you want to do. Is that right? And of course, if they then say that's right, that can either go onto a creative brief which I can feed into one of my agencies, well, they can fit it back into their existing agency, it doesn't require me to them do the work. However, it's sometimes it does. Because you know, what it's like, and we go onto account management, when people like the way you talk about things, and they like the way you think they'll work with you. You know, it's nothing to do with I have a unique process, or I have unique proposition, I have a personality. And, you know, I have, I hope, a promise, which is that people like my personality, and some people don't, I can understand that. And people like what you're promising, they'll work with you. So it's a, I love workshops, because I guess in the same way that we all probably like counselling, you know, whether it be the counselling of friends or professional counsel, whatever your situation in life is, sometimes you do need to stop and take stock.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: I totally agree. I think this is such a, an actually, I can see why this is so valuable, both for agencies who are looking to look at their brands in more detail for themselves, but also, as you say, as a service, that you step into that role to help agencies with that, with that, with that thing, because many agencies I work with, for example, they don't profess to be experts in branding. And yet through working with their clients, this comes up and the need comes up. But it's not something that they offer in house. So this is great to know that you do this. Let's turn our attentions to account management because many of my audience are account management and I, having worked in the industry for so long, Bill I'm just really interested in, first of all asking you the question, where do you see the value in account management?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: Good account management is so critical, as you and I both know, we're involved, we have been and are involved in the whole thing about relationship audits anyway, where you know, account manager, account management is about understanding the nature of both the business you're working with, and also the people you're working alongside, you know who your counterparts are in the business you're working for. So I think the value of account management is it, sometimes I say I had to learn by default, because I moved from being a creative into being a client director. And I tend to use the same things I use in my personal relationships was it's all about listening carefully. You know, knowing when to talk when not to talk. I think it's a lot to do with empathy. Because sometimes what you're being told to do isn't actually the whole brief. And sometimes if you’ve got some empathy, and you begin to ask the right questions, you'll know other aspects of the brief, which are equally as important. And of course, that's really important in account management, because good account managers actually can take one brief and turn it into two, you know, it's that kind of thing. Write a proposal, I always say this to people, whenever you write a proposal, you know, your proposal might be that one activity, but always put last sheet at the back of the proposal, did you know we do these other things? Because it doesn't matter if that's just seen as being a wasted page, or wasted PDF, at least because sometimes we'll go I didn't know you did that. Yo do copywriting? I didn't know you did that, we've actually got copywriter. So it's, it's got to be a sprat to catch a mackerel, you know, good account management should be about, of course, it's about continuity. It's obviously about success. It's about making sure that what is promised is delivered on time, at cost, accurately. And but I do think it's this, this. And the other thing, of course, with really good account management is, as I said, about workshops, research is so critical, not just research on the company you're just about to work for if you won the pitch, research on what their competitors doing, and research on the individuals you're working with, you know, I know that Simon a friend of ours, that said that, you know, he made it his job whenever he can't imagine would find out, you know, what are the interests of the person you're going, you know, are they interested in music, fashion, football. I mean, the weird thing for me is I know when I've been a successful account management because some of my great friends on LinkedIn are former clients of mine, and you know, we talk about football, music, politics, how much we hate Trump, you know, all that kind of stuff. You know, what cat videos we like, I'm joking. But you kind of and I say to an account manager, don't go out to try and be somebody friend, just be a really good professional. But if a friendship evolves out of that, then, you know, I probably in my career, worked for the same person in three different roles for three different companies. In other words, they've carried me along with them, no matter what agency I've been working with, it's my own or for somebody else into that. So people, I think people develop a shorthand together. Good account management is developing that shorthand, so that actually everything isn't laboured. Because I think the other thing we got to remember is, we think what the services are providing are so important, but they're not the most important thing in the client's life. You've got to recognise what you're doing, it may be a fun part of what they do, it's probably more fun than, you know, doing reviews of packaging lines, or whatever it is. But, and obviously, they love the results and when it motivates them, it really motivates them. But it goes back to if you have all that thing, that listening empathy and you really do some research, you're bound to probably have a better relationship. It may not be the strongest bond ever. You either want people to like you and like what you do, or just really like what you do. The liking you isn't the critical thing, but it often goes hand in hand.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: I love all of that,everything that you've said. And I think, like you said, research is really important as well. It's bringing insight and ideas to the client that perhaps they hadn't considered.<br><br></div><div>In terms of any high performing account managers you've experienced or you've worked with in the past, can you think of any examples where they've, you know, specifically delivered a lot of value, either to the client or the agency?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: I mean, when when we grew Planet very rapidly, Planet was the first company that I was the director of myself, which was the new product development agency where we used 3D design, product design and branding. We very quickly realised that as a group of creatives, and we were all creatives, that there were limitations to some of our skills, and three of our clients over a period of two years, then said, I really like your agency, I'd love to work, I'd love to switch sides. And two of them came from Unilever, one of them came from DHL, I think, and they were the best account managers we ever had, because, and they ended up they've all actually gone on and started their own agencies, we were just a stepping stone for&nbsp; them. Hey c’est la vie but that's life out there. But the fact they’d come from the client side, meant that they instinctively knew what clients wanted, and how clients needed to be talked to. And also, the key thing we learned from them was actually how to provide stuff to your clients, which they could use to sell up to their bosses as well. In other words, how you provide information in a way which is useful. So I what I got out, there was a real understanding about what it must be like to be working inside Unilever or Nestle or the Diageo, you know, what are the things that are important there? Or Coca Cola? I remember once I was speaking to the marketing director, Coca Cola, a good friend, and I said, how come Coca Cola has all these problems launching new products? Should the problem is we've got too many clever people. I said, What do you mean, she said we’ve got so many clever people that often ideas get stuck in the system, because everyone's adding their, you know, it's almost we don't have a streamlined system. I think what they did for some of the revolutionary new products is they had a breakout team who went and worked in a separate office completely. Because the problem is, if you have too many people, you don't get clear cut through.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: This is brilliant. Bill, I feel I could talk to you all day. But I've just looked at the time. So I'm really keen to get your view on. What do you think is the future of agencies and the future of the agency model? Any thoughts on that?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: Yeah, this is this is an area again, Simon Mishra and I were talking about the other week, which is that I think it must be so tough for clients to work out where to get the services they need. You know, it used to be simple, you know, you had your advertising agency, you had your design agency, you had your public relations agency, etc. The digital world changed all of that. And the problem is, I think you've got digital agencies who have claimed their branding agencies, branding agencies, who are saying that social media agencies, people saying.. it's not being, not sticking to themselves. So I think the future of agencies is actually saying, again, going back to branding themselves, so they really know what their promises, what are they really good at, focus on what they're really good at, doesn't, they can still sell a whole bunch of other services, but understand the hierarchy of how you communicate what you don't pretend to be things you're not, you know, if really you’re greater public relations, and you have fantastic insight about how to, you know, speak to magazines, and you've got great relationship with journalists, that's your strength. The fact you can do social media stuff, as well as, don't pretend you're a social media expert. You know, and you've got you got hands on touch to all the, you know, the guru bloggers out there, and it's just, I think, stick to your knitting. But the future agencies means that lots of agencies are going to be confusing people by pretending they're everything to all men, and that's it's a very grey area out there. I think shopping it must be really difficult. I think it's why you know, the clever agency groups now you know, much as there are things about WPP I don't agree with but what Martin was brilliant at was sorting out what was.. this is a digital service within our agency. This is an advertising services agency, this is a creative, you know, saying it's all about you know, we're passionate about doing branding, and okay, that's why You and Mr. Jones is an agency out there talking about guiding people through digital technology. That's what we're best at. And then okay, well, what's the service that you need to guide you through this changing digital world?<br><br></div><div>So I think, and it's why with Studio Blup, it's very clear what they are good at. And it's why they're, they're part of the Lab group now. They are great creative, hotshot have their own style, their own unique way of doing things, which people buy into, and has that way of working. And with New Juice here in Brighton, we know that we're when we're not a B2C agency, we're much more B2B agency, where we love doing business to business brands, and we're working, we've worked on several startups, they're probably my favourite kind of work at the moment, which is where you got a blank sheet of paper. And so we don't claim to be things that we're not, we're, you know, we say we're a branding agency that has our finger on the digital pulse, it's, it's fairly clear.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: I think that makes so much sense stick to what you do really, really well. And just finally, to wrap up, do you have any sources that inspire you, sources of information, any books that you've read, that you think would be particularly relevant for the audience to read? That would help them either with their thoughts around branding or account management? And, yeah, or anyone that you follow?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: Not so much books, as I said, I'm not really, you know, the only book I've really loved reading recently is The Body by Bill Bryson. And that that was a very poignant book to read right before this whole COVID because it talks about, you know, the immune system and things. I mean, you know, so learning about your own body is pretty interesting. But that's irrelevant to what we're talking about. I mean, I guess the people I really follow people like Mark Ritson. Just&nbsp; because whether you agree with him or not, he pumps a lot of stuff out of there, which is worth.. It’s like anyone you know, you can agree or disagree, but at least there's stuff that's being put out there. I really like Michael Wolff. Now, don't get confused, there’s two Michael Wolff's. If you Google it,&nbsp; that one's a journalist. I mean, Michael Wolff, who used to be the creative director of Wolff Olins, the branding agency. His website, which has got an A-Z of branding, it's fantastic. I mean, it's quite frivolous and lovely. But, you know, I know him personally. And he writes stuff on LinkedIn, which I always read. And I like him as well so probably, it's not books, it's magazine articles. You know, there's, there's just some great people out there. I could go go through a long list, but I think it's kind of, definitely I suggest Michael Wolff, if you're a creative, I think if you want to, as you know, if you want to know what your client's needs are, you've got to be reading Marketing Week and Mark Ritson has great views about marketing. Marketing changes all time.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: Great advice. Thank you. And just finally, if anyone's listening to this thinking, Bill sounds fantastic. I'd really like to kind of contact him. First of all, who would you like to be contacted by and and how would they do that?<br><br></div><div>Bill: My real passion at the moment is helping people. The lovely thing about, not lovely, if there's any, any good news, but lots of people coming out of the woodwork who wants to launch their own new businesses. So I think it's been a lot of time for people to do their own Dragon's Den in their head, going, actually, maybe is this the way I want to work again? I've had an idea. So there are lots of new businesses being formed or new entrepreneurial ideas happening. And I love working on those because quite often, it is a brilliant, I'm working on one at the moment, which is an absolutely brilliant idea. But they haven't really got a brand name, or the one they came up with is not really clever. They hadn't really researched, the branding wasn't really important, the business idea. I can help on the branding side, so I love startups. Particularly I can really help those and of course, the other thing is because I'm not an agency with overheads, I can give much more of a personal service, which is valued for money, I have to say, people. I’m advertising myself!&nbsp; I love that. And of course I love working with agencies, but I've kind of restricted myself now to working,&nbsp; I've kind of done my job with BLUP, I'll still be working with them, but they're part of the Lab group. And that's their extended family, which gives them international reach. Doesn't mean I don't still work with them. But I'm really enjoying working here in Brighton with New Juice. Because the great thing about I weirdly moved to Brighton to work from home seven or eight years ago. So I kind of think I'm Nostradamus. I predicted it. But the lovely thing about looking Brighton is they're very small agencies here but the sense of collaboration is huge. It's a kind of mini Silicon Valley. There are so many digital companies and so many games developers and just really diverse.&nbsp; Wired Sussex is great,&nbsp; you can connect with people and I've connected with great video makers, animators, all sorts of people. So I think the future model of the agency world, from my perspective, is we're going to keep very lean at New Juice. But it's a bit like a film production company, you bring the right people in when the right brief needs them, you don't need to employ them. It's much more about the collaboration. And Brighton seems to have a great collaboration culture, partly because it's essentially I think it's Camden by Sea. It's got a love of music and arts, which is you know, that's why I lived in Camden.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: Amazing, Bill, listen, I feel like I talk to you all day. This has been absolutely gold. Thank you so much for spending the time with me, sharing all your knowledge and all your views. I think it really has been fantastic. So thank you so much for joining me today.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: Always a pleasure, Jenny. It was great to be introduced to you and I think your podcasts are great. I think that's the other thing is podcasts are something which have been hugely helpful during lockdown. I think I've certainly enjoyed doing several now. And it's got me listening to a lot as well, which is again, it's weird, isn't it? I just don't read books as much.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: I think you should do one yourself.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Bill: I've got an idea for one.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: Okay, all the best. Thank you so much, Bill.<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2020 09:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/0wmz9kn8.mp3" length="63658757" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/36bcae80-319d-11eb-b20f-c3772d7cc1f3/36bcafe0-319d-11eb-9018-abf78cf2939c.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3182</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>If you have an interest in branding, feel your agency brand needs a makeover or you're looking for help to offer branding workshops to your clients,  this episode is for you.

Bill Wallsgrove has been helping companies with branding for 30 years.

He's worked on some of the most exciting and well known brands such as Heineken, Budweiser and Benetton to name just a few and has held Creative Director roles for some of the most prestigious strategic design agencies such as Coley Porter Bell and Future Brand.

He has been guiding agencies with their brands for years and his brand consultancy services include mentoring the likes of Studio Blup (recently bought by the LAB Group) known for their work with brands like Nike, MTV and Ministry of Sound.

Today I pick his brains on everything branding related and ask him to share his thoughts, opinions and observations about how branding has changed during his career.  

In this episode Bill chats to me about:

* His definition of a brand
* Why he disagrees with many companies who believe they need a brand purpose 
* What a 'digital first' approach to branding means
* How brands and the process of branding has changed over the years
* Why we are in the third generation of branding and examples of brands who are leading the field
* Why and how he works with agencies to help them with their brands
* Why he believes agencies need account managers and some tips for great account management

....and lots more.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>If you have an interest in branding, feel your agency brand needs a makeover or you're looking for help to offer branding workshops to your clients,  this episode is for you.

Bill Wallsgrove has been helping companies with branding for 30 years.

He's worked on some of the most exciting and well known brands such as Heineken, Budweiser and Benetton to name just a few and has held Creative Director roles for some of the most prestigious strategic design agencies such as Coley Porter Bell and Future Brand.

He has been guiding agencies with their brands for years and his brand consultancy services include mentoring the likes of Studio Blup (recently bought by the LAB Group) known for their work with brands like Nike, MTV and Ministry of Sound.

Today I pick his brains on everything branding related and ask him to share his thoughts, opinions and observations about how branding has changed during his career.  

In this episode Bill chats to me about:

* His definition of a brand
* Why he disagrees with many companies who believe they need a brand purpose 
* What a 'digital first' approach to branding means
* How brands and the process of branding has changed over the years
* Why we are in the third generation of branding and examples of brands who are leading the field
* Why and how he works with agencies to help them with their brands
* Why he believes agencies need account managers and some tips for great account management

....and lots more.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>agency account manager</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to prospect for agency new business, with Lucy Snell</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/489qk068</link>
      <itunes:title>How to prospect for agency new business, with Lucy Snell</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>10</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">v177m4q1</guid>
      <description>Today's guest is the lovely Lucy Snell the co-founder of Cherry Consulting.

Cherry helps creative and digital agencies to generate new business and Lucy started the company in 2004. 

She's been featured three times in the BD100 list as one of the UK's most influential business developers and during this interviews shares many tips for agencies who are looking to generate more leads.

In this episode, she shares:

* Some of the biggest challenges she's seeing agencies have for approaching prospects right now
* Tips for how to get cut through when prospective clients aren't responding
* What she did to get a 50% open rate on one of her email campaigns
* What she finds agencies need the most help with in the area of new business generation
* Her thoughts on why some agencies are thriving at the moment
* Exactly what she believes you should be spending your time on in the area of new business depending on the size of your agency.

If you're working in agency new business or have aspirations to do so, this is a great interview and full of practical real life examples and advice.

Enjoy!</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[Today's guest is the lovely Lucy Snell the co-founder of Cherry Consulting.

Cherry helps creative and digital agencies to generate new business and Lucy started the company in 2004. 

She's been featured three times in the BD100 list as one of the UK's most influential business developers and during this interviews shares many tips for agencies who are looking to generate more leads.

In this episode, she shares:

* Some of the biggest challenges she's seeing agencies have for approaching prospects right now
* Tips for how to get cut through when prospective clients aren't responding
* What she did to get a 50% open rate on one of her email campaigns
* What she finds agencies need the most help with in the area of new business generation
* Her thoughts on why some agencies are thriving at the moment
* Exactly what she believes you should be spending your time on in the area of new business depending on the size of your agency.

If you're working in agency new business or have aspirations to do so, this is a great interview and full of practical real life examples and advice.

Enjoy!]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/j8y1xzz8.mp3" length="43858985" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/06cf6d60-29ad-11eb-a1a6-fd65baf5026c/06cf6f50-29ad-11eb-a5c3-235d77baa652.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2192</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Today's guest is the lovely Lucy Snell the co-founder of Cherry Consulting.

Cherry helps creative and digital agencies to generate new business and Lucy started the company in 2004. 

She's been featured three times in the BD100 list as one of the UK's most influential business developers and during this interviews shares many tips for agencies who are looking to generate more leads.

In this episode, she shares:

* Some of the biggest challenges she's seeing agencies have for approaching prospects right now
* Tips for how to get cut through when prospective clients aren't responding
* What she did to get a 50% open rate on one of her email campaigns
* What she finds agencies need the most help with in the area of new business generation
* Her thoughts on why some agencies are thriving at the moment
* Exactly what she believes you should be spending your time on in the area of new business depending on the size of your agency.

If you're working in agency new business or have aspirations to do so, this is a great interview and full of practical real life examples and advice.

Enjoy!</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Today's guest is the lovely Lucy Snell the co-founder of Cherry Consulting.

Cherry helps creative and digital agencies to generate new business and Lucy started the company in 2004. 

She's been featured three times in the BD100 list as one of the UK's most influential business developers and during this interviews shares many tips for agencies who are looking to generate more leads.

In this episode, she shares:

* Some of the biggest challenges she's seeing agencies have for approaching prospects right now
* Tips for how to get cut through when prospective clients aren't responding
* What she did to get a 50% open rate on one of her email campaigns
* What she finds agencies need the most help with in the area of new business generation
* Her thoughts on why some agencies are thriving at the moment
* Exactly what she believes you should be spending your time on in the area of new business depending on the size of your agency.

If you're working in agency new business or have aspirations to do so, this is a great interview and full of practical real life examples and advice.

Enjoy!</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>agency account manager</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to approach and develop relationships with procurement, with Jessica Bowler &amp; Iris Gatzweiler</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/vn5zqw48</link>
      <itunes:title>How to approach and develop relationships with procurement, with Jessica Bowler &amp; Iris Gatzweiler</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>9</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">80qknjx0</guid>
      <description>Today's guests are Iris Gatzweiler and Jess Bowler who have been working in marketing procurement for many years in the pharmaceutical industry.

I asked them to share more about their day to day roles in procurement and shed some light on how agency account managers can develop stronger relationships with them.

In this episode we discuss:

* What they look for in long term agency supplier relationships
* Where they see the value in agency account management and some tips on how to keep the relationship on track
* Advice for how to approach someone in procurement when you don't have a relationship currently
* Why involving procurement in how you expand your relationships within a company makes sense
* How they make an agency selection and how you can stand out from the rest

There are so many golden nuggets in this episode, you'll want to grab a pen and make some notes. I hope this will prompt you to review your current client relationships and identify where perhaps your relationship with procurement isn't very strong and also ideas for how to strengthen it.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Transcript:<br>Welcome to episode nine. I'm continuing the theme today of talking directly to clients to understand their perspective on working with creative agencies, and particularly how agency account managers can help enhance relationships. So today's guests are Iris Gatzweiler and Jess Bowler, both of whom work for a global pharmaceutical company in the procurement team, both of whom have a huge amount of experience dealing with agency relationships. So in this episode, we discuss what procurement look for in long term agency suppliers, where procurement see value in agency account management, and how to ensure you keep the relationship on track, advice for how to approach procurement for the first time if you have no relationship currently, why involving procurement in how you expand your relationship within the company makes total sense and how procurement make an agency selection and how you can stand out from the crowd. There are so many golden nuggets in this episode, I really hope you're going to come away with some value areas. Iris and Jess are very generous with their time and their insight and sharing some examples of both good practice and also some things to avoid. So grab a pen and enjoy this episode, I’ll go straight over now.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: So I'm delighted to welcome Iris and Jess. Iris and Jess both hold senior procurement roles for a global pharmaceutical company. And the reason I've invited them on today is that I believe that agency account managers need to have a better understanding of how their clients work. And also to understand the role of procurement. Because I think sometimes procurement is treated a bit revered, you know, we can't possibly approach them or talk to them, we don't quite know how to manage that relationship. So the reason I've invited Jess and Iris on is to really share some insight into their everyday role. And also some ideas maybe for how agencies can optimise the relationship with procurement, how to approach them, how to deal with them, how to manage the relationship. So I want to hand over to my guests so that they can spend a couple of minutes just talking a bit about their background, and also their experience of working with agencies. So Iris, can I start with you?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Iris: Sure. Thank you, Jenny. So yeah, Iris is my name. I have nearly 20 years of experience in procurement, mostly in the pharmaceutical industry a little bit in FMCG, when I started my career. And I've had various types of roles in the local market and cluster markets, or in regional roles, and also in different parts of the world. And currently, I'm based in Asia. I've managed personally, marketing, procurement and agencies since the beginning of my career really. And since the last five to six years, it's more about managing a team. So it's my team being operationally involved with the agencies, managing the relationships with the agencies on a day to day level. Nevertheless, I'm still involved in some of the strategic aspects like QBR meetings, evaluation meetings, and some of the strategic reviews that we do.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: Fantastic. Thanks, Sarah. That's brilliant. Jess?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>JessicaL Sure, hi, Jessica here. And I have been working in healthcare for over 20 years, and in pharmaceuticals for the majority of that, and in terms of marketing agencies and the operations with that about the last 12 to 13 years. Before that I managed other categories within medical and marketing, for procurement as well. And for me, it's nuts to bolts marketing agencies, from bringing them in to evaluating them to having the tough conversations, and I really enjoy the partnership.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: Amazing. I mean, I can see that you're both hugely experienced. So I'm quite excited about diving into my questions. Now I think the other thing to mention is Iris and I met many years ago when she was working for another pharma company. And we kind of hit it off, didn't we Iris and it's testament to the fact that you're here now that we've continued that relationship so it was successful. So Jess, first for you a quick question. What for you is a good solid, long term agency partnership?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jess: Sure, that's a great question, Jenny. For me, the most important thing is trust, I think it's really, really important to sort of build that foundation of relationship. And without trust, you really can't build that foundation. For me in the job I currently hold long term relationships are key, we don't want to be looking for new agencies all the time. So again, it's just building that foundation. And you know, problems will come up, right. So it's about being proactive, catching them early, working together in that partnership, to come to resolution, whatever that might be and remembering that it's business and not personal. So especially when you're asking an agency maybe to rearrange their people. It's not easy, these conversations are tough. But at the end of the day, they only make the partnership stronger. You have to feel like you're on the same team, working for the same goals. And you know, the lines do get a little bit blurred in terms of agency and pharma, in terms of you’re that kind of partnership.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: Brilliant answer, Jess, and interesting that you talk about sometimes tough conversations to be had with an agency or, you know, making sure that you and the agency are on the same page? Principally, who do you tend to have the contact with? Is it the account management team or is it the agency leadership team typically?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jess: Sure, it really depends on the situation at hand. But certainly both those people are always involved in those types of tough conversations. It also depends on that agency and the relationship that we have with them. But I would say the majority of the time for us, it is the agency lead overseeing our company that we reach out to first and sort of brainstorm about the best way to then go speak to the account management about it. Because you want to make sure that you're doing that in the best possible way, again, not offending anyone reminding them that it's business, but I think it's important to have both those lines of communication open. So again, I tend to go to the lead first, and then we have the conversation together with the account management.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: Great. I mean, from what you've just said, I'm assuming that many times where those tough conversations need to be had, does it involve the account management team?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jess: It can, I think more times than not, you know, it's an issue we're seeing with creative, or it's an issue we're seeing with managing the budget. So it's not always with the account manager per se, I've seen that. And when you have that kind of issue, that you would really, you know, have to talk to the agency lead about and let them handle that internally. But a lot of times if it's with a specific person on the team, or say we have a vacancy, or sometimes it's an uptick, you know, as we're heading, say, to a launch, and we don't feel like we have enough support. So again, it's just trying to be proactive about whatever the issue is, and making sure that we resolve it as quickly as possible. I always say that cracks come first. And if you don't sort of fix the cracks, then the foundation starts to crumble. So the minute you see an issue, even if it seems super tiny, and it's getting marketers to come forward and tell you about the small issues, because small issues become big issues.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: This is brilliant Jess, this is really useful. I know, I'm going a little bit granular. I'm just curious to know, is the fact that your marketing team flags an issue to you mean that it's got that bad? i.e, do you usually find that most day to day issues can be resolved between the marketing team and the agency? So does it have to get quite bad before you're involved? Or is there just that flow of communication between you?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jess: Yeah, um, no, I appreciate the granularity, Jenny, I think that it really depends on your relationship with the marketer, because I've been where I've been for so long, and I've managed some of these people, maybe they've switched brands, but I've been with them for a long time. And I try up front, you know, during the pitch process to say, if you see little problems, just make me aware, even if you're going to handle them on your own, I just want to be aware. So if the issue which hopefully it won't, starts to snowball, and get bigger than I've been made aware through the whole process, so that when it is time for me to jump in, I would love them to handle it on their own, I think it's important part of them building the relationship. And I have a saying, you know, where I like to talk about, you know, we sort of tried to fix it as quickly as we can. And if that's the marketer fixing it on their own, and just making me aware, that's fine. If the marketer wants my support, you know, I always say to the marketer, I want you to build the relationship, but I don't want you to do anything to hurt your relationship. So if you're starting to have a conversation that you feel like might hurt, then I want to take it up a level to my agency contact, and I want to start that conversation for you.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: Hmm, sounds very sensible. Iris, can I just direct a couple of questions to you, what value do you see in the actual account management team, because many of my listeners are in the account management team, and they are responsible, really for developing and growing the relationship on behalf of the agency. They're the ambassador, let's say. So what do you see as the key value for the procurement department that an agency account manager can bring?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Iris: Thank you, Jenny, I think this is a great question. And for me, first and foremost, the account manager is something like a conductor, you know, it's really the person who orchestrates everything, especially inside the agency, and then with the client, you know, they need to really be well connected. They need to be empathetic, they need to understand where different people are coming from, you know, they have to deal inside the agency with a lot of different roles and a different people. And then they have the clients. So for me, the agency client relationship is all about people. It's about chemistry, you know, if you have that chemistry, yes, you mentioned at the beginning, you know, you and I, I think we had a level of chemistry straight away, which helped us to be and establish a successful relationship. So for me, that's key, you know, we're in the people business, whatever, you may say, a client agency relationship is all about people. To Jess’s point, I think that account manager needs to be very present to pick up any little things that may happen. Because I totally agree with Jess even little things that go wrong, especially when it's a new account, we have to fix them straight up, we'll have to bring them up straight away, because if we let them go, they will escalate, they will bubble up and become a much bigger issue to deal with. So I think that account manager for me, when I see them working at their best is when they have been very present to the client and wanting to have feedback all the time. And you know, they're ready to hear the small things that involves a lot of transparency and honest conversation from both sides. So again, they must not be offended, or, you know, take a defensive stance, when we bring this up and say, Oh, you know, it's my agent, you know, it's, they need to be quite factual. They need to listen, they need to go and of course, hear the other side of the story. And I've seen a comment just becoming quite offensive, of course, I want to defend their business. But I think someone who can really, you know, see, both sides of the story, for me brings the most value to such as such a relationship. Yeah, and transparency, because they sometimes have to admit that things have gone wrong on their side. But also, it's not always the agency fault, by far, you know, and it's also for us to be able to say, yeah, maybe this brief hasn't been as strong as it could have been, or they haven't been able to really express our needs. So I'm always saying to marketers, the agencies don't have a crystal ball, if you don't, you know, express your needs clearly, you can't expect that they can just, you know, read in your mind and come up with the perfect solution for you.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: That's a really good point. I'm going to direct the same question that we asked Jess, Jess mentioned, that sometimes issues arise around creative work or budget. Those are the two things Jess mentioned. In your experience, what are the most common issues that you see with agency client relationships?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Iris: I think the creative like Jess mentioned already is in because it's something about expectation management, you know, you people go in with different expectations when it comes to creative and sometimes you know, the agency hits it, sometimes the agency is just about on point, and sometimes the person had an expectation that is not met. So that can be sometimes challenging. The other areas, for me are more like ways of working, you know, operational topics that if you don't say at the beginning how you want to work together, then it can cause you know, frustrations, you know, some people like to, you know, jump on a call, some people want to have an email, read through and then respond. So you have to basically establish some ground rules and say, how do we want to work together? What's our operating model ways of working? And I think if that's clear, then it's a lot less issues or problems that I have been observing.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: So this has come up a lot then expectation management and setting ground rules from the beginning. Do you find generally this is directed at both of you really, the agencies don't do a very thorough job of setting the ground rules, or how this is going to work or how we're going to run this account, how we're going to make sure that we're communicating with you in the way that you would like us to communicate etc?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Iris: It's probably not the first discussion or the topic that is top of their mind when it comes to starting an account. But I think that's what I feel that procurement, we can add value and have a role and we can force that discussion and say, you know, it's not the sexy topic. It's not about the creative it's not but let's sit down and have a conversation how we going to run the account, what works for whom alternating escalation is super important, because the last thing you want to see is like this email being sent to, you know, everyone in the agency, everyone in the company at a very high level, you know, you should understand you can make certain decisions and who should be a point of escalation, you know, depending on what issues we're incurring. And I feel if that's kind of set out at the beginning, then that usually, again, everybody knows what to expect. I'm not saying that it works perfectly. But you have to force that discussion a bit. And I think I see this as part of our role, it doesn't necessarily come natural to the agency or the marketeers. So we might be forcing that discussion a bit. But I think it adds value later down the line.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: Very much so. Do you feel the same, Jess?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jess: Yep. I agree with everything Iris said. And I would say I think we've gotten better at it. Right? As our roles have evolved, I think we've gotten better at making sure we say to the marketers, this is important out of the gate, and I think our agencies that we've worked with, for longer periods of time, have gotten better at it as well and see it as something they expect to do, especially when they have a new account, or people change, right, you need to change those expectations when people change on the accounts as well. I think when newer agencies come into our fold, it's really important that we sort of train them to do that, because they might not do that with all the different companies that they work with. Most of these agencies span across, you know, not just pharmaceuticals, but other industries. And you know, I'm sure we all work a little bit differently. But I think really managing that upfront, and establishing those ways of working, like Aaron said, you know, do they prefer an email? Do they prefer a phone call? If you're going to tell them some bad news? Do they want it over email first. And so I think it's just it all comes back to what we talked about in the beginning to partnership, right? And knowing that every team probably will want to work a little bit differently.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: Before we leave this topic of just general sort of roles and responsibilities in agencies, I want to pick up on the creative part, because I know that creative directors also tune into this. And I think partly I suppose because there's a certain amount of intangibility about creativeness, isn't there? What do you believe, to avoid mismanagement of expectations in terms of creative? What could agencies be doing better in that sort of creative development process to set and manage expectations?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jess: So I think it's like many of the things we've spoken about it is really that open two way communication. And I know typically, agencies come forward with tissues before they present the real creative. But I think it's even meeting prior to that having, you know, an idea session, just to make sure you're headed down the right road, right. Because when you're working in, you know, whatever you want to call it, a war room of such, where you're developing creative, which is obviously different now, in the land of COVID, they're doing those types of sessions remotely, which I'm sure is not easy for them. But you know, there's certain things that they need to hit, especially for pharmaceuticals with regard to our strategy and things they're able to say. So sometimes pie in the sky isn't quite right with like our legal or medical. So I do think it's having those checkpoints along the way, just to make sure you're not headed down the wrong road, you don't want your agency to go down a rabbit hole, and then the tissues and then the main creative and you're completely off track, because then you're starting over.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: Fantastic advice. Really, really useful. Thank you for sharing. Let's talk a bit about agency selection when you're selecting an agency for the first time. And this is kind of directed at both of you. How do you go about that process of selecting an agency?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Iris: So maybe I’ll start and I’ll really cover this question more from sort of a local or regional point of view. So within the company, there's, you know, certain strategies, and agencies are certainly an area where we, you know, we have done a lot of work in the past. So we have good, what we call a category strategy, which kind of gives a little bit of a playbook to our regions and our markets. So certain choices, we can only make them within boundaries of global strategy. And other areas were a little bit more flexible. So on a local and regional point of view, it's a mixture between, you know, following a brand and an agency of record all the way through to the local or regional level, and then where it's more local work, also someone who has to be to understand the local culture, the local language needs to then would we call transcreate or translate really that material more into what is going to work in the local market? So we definitely have a combination here and of course, we have what's a different maturity. You know, I'm I told you before that I'm currently based in Asia and we have very mature markets in Asia with a lot of agencies present then we have other markets where, you know, agencies are not as mature. And you know, they're doing pretty much everything that can be doing the printing, they're doing a one stop shop. But that's maybe what is needed for that market.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: Great. And what about for you, Jess?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jess: Sure, I'll take it from a different standpoint, just because my role is slightly different. I come at it more from either North America or global. And for me, it really depends on the product, we're looking at the geographic reach, I need the therapeutic expertise, the correct size for the business, because no products are the same, where they are in the lifecycle. And we have everything from, you know, niche to large. And it really is finding that right fit, because I don't want to try to make a match. That's a mismatch. So it's really using the knowledge that I have both about my agencies, as well as the knowledge I have about the brand. And trying to marry that forward. We also take into account, previous track record, you know, how have they done in the past with these types of brands or situations or the need that I have? It's very important to look historically, it's not always completely accurate predictor, but it is it is a good predictor. And it's what we utilise, and it works for us.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: And do you tend to put it out to tender through like a middle person that would find that agency for you? Or do you principally look at your current agency records, and then decide from there,</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jess: We have pretty robust lists. So we tend to go off those lists. But let's say you are looking for something new and different, you know, I might end up you know, doing some research, talking to other procurement colleagues inside and outside of my company, it really depends on the need. But for the most part, I would say for the needs that we have, we do have lists in place.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: Okay, great, because I'm sure there's some agencies that are listening, thinking, I would love to work with a global pharma company, you know, and I think I've got something a little bit different, you know, how would I even begin to be considered, maybe because they are very specialist. And maybe it's a new technology or some kind of expertise that's very sort of digitally focused, that's just emerging. So what advice would you give for a company like that that wanted to get themselves on your radar?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jess: Sure, that's a great question, Jenny. I think a lot of people get intimidated, but they shouldn't. Because there's a lot of great tools out there from LinkedIn, obviously, which is a great tool, and I get a lot of LinkedIn invitations or emails sent to me, I do also get cold calls and what I would call a cold email. And I'll tell you that our needs are changing all the time, right, the marketing landscape is changing all the time. So I do have different needs all the time. And our brands are, you know, no two are alike. So I definitely read those emails, I read the messages. And I have a folder where I keep everything, if it's something I think is coming down the pipe, or something I might need relatively soon, I'll respond, I'll set up a meeting, either for myself. I tend to do a pre screen just to make sure it's a good fit for us. And then we'll meet with my larger team, so that we have it on the radar. We also keep slide decks of capabilities on agencies and I have to tell you more and more, we've been really relying on them. So I don't think that people should feel like they shouldn't reach out. I think it depends on the time of year as well, like right now is a very busy time of year. So it would probably be very difficult for a new agency or provider of any kind to get someone's attention. But the beginning of the year, and then once I speak to an agency, and I think it might be something really promising. I asked them to communicate with me, quarterly, or twice a year, we set up a cadence that makes sense , a check in to see you know, if I have anything on the horizon. It's good for me because it allows them to stay top of mind for me, I don't want to forget them. And I think people would be surprised to know how often we do sort of go off our preferred list and bring new entities in.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: I think this is phenomenal. Actually, for those that are listening thinking, wow, maybe I do have a chance. I mean, the fact that you've said actually I'm very open to it. And I'm I'm willing to kind of listen to everyone and receive cold calls. Iris?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Iris: Yeah, just to add something because I think it's an area where we have to get better. And I think as a company this year, we've done a couple of things. In my region in particular, we've done a project to see how we can use technology also a little bit better for this because not everyone is organised as Jess, you know, has folders and I know I have sort of agency contacts a little bit all over the place and then I'm not necessarily going to the right place when I need them. So we're looking at getting technology in place where we can open up a platform to agencies to register themselves. They will have to kind of go through a couple of hurdles and give us a little bit upfront information. But once they're in there, you know, we'll really screen also what their capabilities are that they have the ability to attach them slide decks or testimonials. So I think that is something that we're hoping to develop further, because I think it would be really great, especially also in a region like, now, Asia where some agencies bridge more than one market. So if we have visibility, whether they can do, you know, serve a couple of markets, then that's another plus. And we can see that because we have the visibility in the tool. And I know in the local market, also people, my colleagues, they invite agencies for supplier days. And that's been quite successful. And that has been particularly successful when we were looking for something new, innovative, like niche technologies that have a lot of around digital, of course, any kind of AI virtual reality, these kind of things. So, to Jess’s point, you know, don't be intimidated, it is happening. And I think we're getting better at keeping the information and pulling the information out when we need it.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: Thank you for sharing that. I think that's super organised, actually having a tool that&nbsp; sounds the perfect solution, because like just said, the needs are changing. So therefore, it might not be the right time now, but who's to say that's not going to change? Just picking up on this theme about people approaching you? Jess you sounded so open to everyone approaching you. But I'm sure there are approaches and approaches like the wrong way to do it and the right way, can you share some tips for anyone that's thinking of approaching you?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jess: Sure, I agree with you, right, there's always a good and bad approach to everything that we all do as humans. So I think it's being careful not to be too aggressive. And knowing that it's okay to send a reminder, but I would say if you know, if someone hasn't gotten back to you, after two approaches, you should probably back off for a little while, it’s either not the right time or not the right fit. And I think, you know, it's just people being natural and friendly and asking for that opportunity. And what I've been doing a lot lately is I can't give you an hour of my time. 30 minutes is even really tough right now, given that we're in Q4, but 15 minutes is a good snapshot of who an agency is, and if they would be the right fit for where I work. So I've been doing that a lot, lately, I've been responding and saying, hey, can give you 15 minutes on that, again, it's like a pre screen. And then for a lot of those that have been coming up, I've been setting up meetings for January, February, March for my larger team, as Iris said, you know, mostly in sort of those new innovation and digital areas. It's interesting to hear what's new and what's coming. It's just not a perfect time for that right now.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: Great tips. Thank you so much. Let's turn our attentions away from new business. And let's talk about the existing client agency relationships you have, because I'm really I'm really keen to kind of ask you both what kind of stands out for you in terms of a well performing agency? You know, that's been with you a while. And, you know, how do they continually stand out from the rest of the agencies?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jess: Sure. So I think for me, it's managing the business you have as well as being proactive about new business, and they think you're only as good as your business is today. So I don't really want an agency who's after the next piece of business, if something is struggling in their current portfolio. For me, also, it goes back to you know, sort of how we started the meeting with that honest, open two way communication. I think Iris really had it right when she spoke about the fact that we're not perfect, either. It's a two way street. And we need to make sure that we're setting our expectations that we're treating our agencies well. For us, it's really important to maintain the relationships we have, let's be honest, the RFP process is not easy. It's time consuming. It's laborious. And we have to do it sometimes. But fixing what we have before we go and try to bring in a new agency is really important to me personally, it speaks to sort of those staff changes that we should do sooner than later if we’re seeing a problem. If there's budgetary concerns, we should speak about them as quickly as possible. If creative doesn't go well, you know, I've had agency say, you know, that just didn't go well. So that one is on us. And we're going to do a new round. And that's what you'll be paying for. Sometimes you need to bring higher leadership in, you know, things just aren't going right. And a lot of times our agencies will say we're going to give you this person for a period of time, and it's on us. I think little things like that go a long way to that partnership.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: I think that's great advice. And I'm sure a lot of agencies are thinking yeah, that makes total sense. It shows that trust building, doesn't it in the collaboration element, era, see where you're going to say something to add</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Iris: Maybe just one point to add. I think you can really see an agency's enthusiastic about working with you or not, and also about the brands. And let's not forget, you know, we’re pharmaceutical and we have, in the last couple of years really made sure, again that we talked about the patient. And I think when the agency also brings in that patient perspective, and is really passionate about what together, as you know, client and agency we can do to make things better for patients. That's when I see especially in our world a real difference. And so when I see this enthusiasm, and I see like sparkles in people's eyes when they talk about our product, you know, this, for me makes a huge difference between someone who just sees us as a client and a brand as a job or someone who's passionate about the brand and the entire supply chain and actually hits the patient.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: I'm glad you brought that up, actually, because there's a couple of agencies that spring to mind that really do have this purpose angle, you know, and for personal reasons, one owner lost his father to cancer, and is very much driven by that he's in healthcare communications. Another partnership I'm thinking of they have a doctor in the family and health has always been part of their lives. And, again, it's very much about doing the right thing for the patient. So do you think that's become more important for companies, big companies like yours, to actually work with partners that do have that purpose behind them?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Iris: Personally, I think yes, but Jess might have a bit of a different route, because she sees the bigger picture. But I think in market, that's definitely more important these days,</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jess: I would definitely agree, I think it's so important. And I think it comes through in everything that they do. You know, we live in a world where everyone in some way, shape or form has been impacted by cancer, or some other disease. And it doesn't take much for them to find an example of how it's impacted their life. And I think you start to see that come through and how they feel about the product. You see it through the creative, it's great to see that passion, I think they have to have that passion in order to do a great job and be a great partner. So I think it's a great point, Jenny.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: Fantastic. That's good to hear. And turning our attention specifically to the account management role. One of the key roles that they have is to develop relationships, not just with their marketing team, but with the procurement team. So can you give me some examples of where agencies do that really well, or how procurement facilitate that relationship to sort of happen? Jess?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: Sure. I think that it's really important that that's done in conjunction with procurement. I think that whatever senior level person, we're talking about senior director, Executive Vice President, I think they like to do it hand in hand with us. So that it's not ever seen in the outside world as given preferential treatment. But let's be honest, people move around agencies over the life of their career, and they bring those relationships forward. So I think it is about utilising procurement, either in those meetings, or giving us a heads up that you're having those meetings, don't go behind our back, it's great to try to forge them. And I think to also remember that every leader is different. So while some leaders appreciate those relationships, and having those contacts, others may refer you back to procurement. And I think you have to be okay with the fact and respect the boundaries of how certain people work. That's their way of working. And being respectful of that.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: That's really good advice, Jess actually, is it the same for yours? Would you say in your experience?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Iris: Yeah, definitely. I think agencies have gotten better at this and they’ve seen the value that procurement can bring. So I think today, they do come to us, and they ask us, you know, how to approach people in the company. And I think that that's not doing that, because to Jess's point, not everyone has, you know, the door open, it's not always a good time for a leader, you know, we can really facilitate that. One of the things that I love about procurement still today is that we have so many different touch points in the company, we are connected with everyone, we're connected to the assistants, we're connected to leadership team, you know, if it's not me personally, and someone else in the organisation who can facilitate that. So I think it's a shame if agencies don't take advantage of that kind of pivotal role that we have to play and we can advise and connect them. And we can also advise on the best way to approach these people. And usually, you know, we can say we can set up a meeting, we can facilitate a meeting or it's better to send this person an email or I would wait till you know, the operating plan is done and they will be much more receptive again. These are the things that you know, we know because we know how the company functions and you know, if they don't listen to that, and if they're not receptive to that feedback, then you know, they can burn bridges very quickly.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: I think this is fantastic advice because I know having spoken to , I train my account accelerator programme, I'm talking to agencies all the time. Some don't even have a relationship with procurement. You know, and they've been working with their companies for years. So I think this is a really good reminder, if you don't currently have a relationship with the procurement team, then, you know, aim to have one. And to that point, what would you suggest the first approach. You mentioned before Iris having QBR meetings, quarterly business review meetings? How would I go about, as an account manager that doesn't have a relationship with procurement? Sort of how do I go about sort of setting that up?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Iris: Well for me, I think they should request whoever is in charge of the meeting, maybe you know, just to point out, wouldn't it be useful or good if we invite procurement? And again, Jess and I, we work in an organisation where this function is very established and is quite mature. And that might not necessarily the case the case everywhere. So it could be that the marketing team has actually never really thought about procurement or&nbsp; engaging procurement than any of these discussions. So it could be a way for the agency to bring it up. It could also be, you know, for them to reach out and say, again, if they haven't have the relationship yet, say to marketing, we believe it would be good to build those relationships with your procurement department, could you maybe introduce us to them and then have a short discussion because, of course, it's a different, you know, we're discussing different things with the agency than the marketeers. And I think that's, again, the value, you know, we're coming from a different point of view. So we can, you know, we can facilitate many things, we can remove obstacles, we can sometimes have that tough discussion on behalf of marketing so that they preserve the relationship. So it's usually in my opinion can only be beneficial. Having said that, they might not find that the procurement team is ready for that. I can’t comment on that. But I think it would be good if they seek out the relationship and read out why existing contacts and want to build that relationship.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: I think it's great advice. Just a point, do you get involved in the actual QPR meetings yourself?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jess: I do. Um, we're set up in a way we're responsible for certain suppliers. And we run those QB RS for those suppliers we’re responsible for. And during that, obviously, we speak about the accounts that they have and how they're performing. We also talk about innovation, things that might have been done differently over the past year, whether it be for us, or for other companies that they work with, that we might want to think about doing ourselves. It's a two way street. It's a lengthy meeting. It's part of that partnership, you know, we speak, they speak, we know we're not perfect, we are looking for feedback in those meetings. The other thing that we do is, you know, there's a lot of M&amp;A in this industry. And so during that, we always give them time to show us any new capabilities, new companies they have acquired something else, we might think about something they think we might need down the road. So I think all the components, you know, are really, really helpful. Just to go back to your prior point, Jenny, I think sometimes people arrive at our company with suppliers they might have worked with before, especially agencies, and maybe they don't work with our company. So I think it's really important when you meet that internal customer, most likely a marketer, and they bring forward a company that they're interested in, that you get them to make that introduction, you start having those conversations, because if it's something they're going to try to bring forward to where they are now, it's important that we get ahead of that relationship. They do need us as their partner as much as they need their agency, we really see that as a two way street</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: Great advice. Thank you so much. Honestly, this is just gold, I think really, really valuable. So just sort of coming to the end of our interview, sadly, cos I'm sure we could go on all day. How would you say that the role of procurement is changing? Jess, can I direct that one to you?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jess: Sure. I think it evolves every day, right? And it changes year over a year, I've been here long enough to see it change. I think we really now have a seat at the table. I think we're extremely valued by our customers, they truly see us as a partner, the way they see our suppliers as a partner. And that wasn't always the case. I'm very proud of it. I think, as Iris said, we're very mature organisation. So I think we're fortunate that way, it took us a long time to get here. And you can't rush that process. But you know, I'm proud of it. I'm proud of the relationships I have. I love that my marketers feel that they can come to me and tell me anything. You know, I'm seeing this, but I don't want to talk to the agency about it yet or I'm going to speak to the agency about it. But I just wanted you to be aware. I think we've established our own ways of working, which I think is just as important as the ways of working with our suppliers.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: It's such a good insight into how it works behind the scenes from the outside looking in, Jess, and you just forget actually that that's going on, you know, people see you in your company, as the go to person to discuss issues. So it makes sense, total sense for agencies to kind of make sure that they involve the procurement team. So thank you for sharing this is really brilliant. What about you Iris? What about the trends in how procurement work with agencies, there's anything, anything that you're seeing obviously Jess was saying about a seat at the table and being seen as the go to person. Anything else that you'd like to add?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Iris: I think Jess mentioned that, I think we're also trying all the time to simplify and streamline the pitch process, you know, this is not always ideal. So I think we're looking at ways to making it simpler, making it quicker, you know, now that we're in a phase where we're launching a lot of products, we don't necessarily have the time to do really long pitches, you know, so we're looking at ways to connect with agencies quicker, you know, doing most of credential meetings, first, it goes to the point of like having a good understanding who's out there so you get it right the first time, you don't like invite a really large group, and then you narrow it down. So you be a bit more specific. I think the other point is definitely with the evolving needs around digital that this was before COVID, this is going to be even more, you know, as we're going through this pandemic, and as we come out on the other end, I think digital will be even more important going forward. The patient centricity, I think, is something that we're looking for. And also, I think agencies have understood that they need to, you know, internally, I have seen that they used to be these, you know, the big networks, but they weren't necessarily well connected. So they would kind of show us all the capabilities that they have. But in essence, they would still be individual companies and be very cumbersome to, like wanting to get the PR side or the medic side or the digital side involved. I think they've gotten better at connecting the dots internally. And this is something that I always questioned them. How's your internal governance? You know, can you actually bring someone in from the PR division? Or do you know, is it a different cost centre budget or, or even a different entity? So it's really important to understand who the decision makers on how the agency governance is structured?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: That's a really good point. Are you finding the same thing, Jess? Is that the same question that you have in your mind when you're dealing with maybe a network rather than a independent?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jess: Absolutely, I think Iris, you know, spoke about it perfectly it's exactly how we feel.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: Fantastic. Look, this has been amazing. And just one last question. Obviously, we're recording this in November, as you just mentioned, Iris we’re in the Covid situation in the UK, we've just gone into the second lockdown of the year. So how have agencies adapted to this remote style of working? Have you seen any particular successes? Or maybe challenges around this?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Iris: Yeah, so just one point for me, I've seen them being quite proactive and coming with like, Hey, we tried this approach, you know, this is all new, we're kind of all learning, we're figuring out how to do things in this new way in this new norm. So I've really appreciated them coming forward, saying, Hey, we tried this, it might not be 100% perfect for you but we want to share, you know, can you give us a bit of time? Or do you want us to send the slides. Some suppliers have sent regular updates about about covid situation and what it means for the industry in particular, or healthcare. So I think the agencies have adapted quickly. And they have also tried to kind of get us on board to think about now and also to make us think about what it's going to be when this is sort of behind us, because we know we're not going to necessarily go back to the same ways of working then before.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jess: I agree with that point completely, also think that there's a sense of sort of maintaining that relationship, right, you know, we would see our agencies live within pitches, we would meet them at our offices, might have a coffee or lunch and get updates. So it's really about sort of maintaining that relationship both for ourselves, as well as our internal customers, as we discussed. I've been putting some Zoom chats on, and they've been doing that with me as well, just to see how they're doing, how they're operating. How's it going for other companies? Are there any learnings they want to bring forward? Is there anything we need to know? I just think it's important. And it's important that we're all supporting each other. And this isn't easy. So making sure you know if there's anything that we can do better, if there's anything we can do for them, and vice versa. I think it's really, really important. And I think it's it's about adapting to our ways of working. You know, we're doing pitches over Zooms or WebEx, that makes it really difficult to figure out who a person is what makes them tick. What's their chemistry, like? Is their chemistry good with our marketers? So coming up with unique ways to do that, whether it be a workshop model or asking them a question, so you really understand how they think. I think it's really important and I think our agencies have been asking for that during this difficult time because it's very hard for them. to just show us creative, and then have us choose.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: I love that so some great tips there for agencies listening, interactive sessions, so fantastic. Any parting words of wisdom or advice for an agency account manager that's listening to this, that is thinking, oh my god, from everything they've said, I need a relationship with procurement.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Iris: Maybe two points for me two key takeaways. The one is around the, you know, the ways of working and establishing the relationship from the outset and having this open and honest conversation about it. And the second point, I just want agencies account managers to hear when they listen to this, they may have noticed that we have spoken very little about costs during this entire time. And so I think by now most agencies understand that procurement is not all about costs, and that we have moved on. And in my personal experience, if the relationship works, there's rarely an issue about costs. So I just want them to hear that we're no longer the cost killer, or the you know, the traditional procurement people that they may have come across a couple of years ago, I think, as a profession, we have really moved on.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: Brilliant advice. And Jess?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jess: I think that's a great point, Iris. And really important because we have evolved a lot. I think it just goes back to a lot of the key words and themes we've used throughout this session. transparency, open communication, trust, two way street, really seeing it as a partnership. And to make sure you sort of find that fine line, if you don't have the relationship between pushy and persistent. I really think that there's a difference. And just making sure that you're forging ahead on your relationships, whether it be with your marketers, or procurement, or making sure that you have them with both entities.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jenny: Fantastic point to finish. Thank you so much. And thank you so much both for joining me, this has been gold and I know that agencies listening are going to get a huge amount of value. From this. I'm looking forward to putting it out there and hearing the feedback. So thank you both so much for taking the time to talk to me.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Jess: Thank you so much, Jenny. It was really fun.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Iris: Thank you, Jenny for having us.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I hope you enjoyed that chat with Jess and Iris. And you've come away with some ideas for how you can develop and grow your business using the relationship building approach with procurement. I'd love to hear what you thought of that episode. So if you're not already, please come and connect with me on LinkedIn. It's Jenny Plant or come over to my website accountmanagementskills.com and take the quiz to find out how good your agency is at growing existing business. I look forward to hearing from you soon.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2020 09:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/n8zly6p8.mp3" length="57402430" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/431b04a0-258f-11eb-af58-e1d909f67cad/431b05e0-258f-11eb-8ca0-b3c80d661c27.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2869</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Today's guests are Iris Gatzweiler and Jess Bowler who have been working in marketing procurement for many years in the pharmaceutical industry.

I asked them to share more about their day to day roles in procurement and shed some light on how agency account managers can develop stronger relationships with them.

In this episode we discuss:

* What they look for in long term agency supplier relationships
* Where they see the value in agency account management and some tips on how to keep the relationship on track
* Advice for how to approach someone in procurement when you don't have a relationship currently
* Why involving procurement in how you expand your relationships within a company makes sense
* How they make an agency selection and how you can stand out from the rest

There are so many golden nuggets in this episode, you'll want to grab a pen and make some notes. I hope this will prompt you to review your current client relationships and identify where perhaps your relationship with procurement isn't very strong and also ideas for how to strengthen it.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Today's guests are Iris Gatzweiler and Jess Bowler who have been working in marketing procurement for many years in the pharmaceutical industry.

I asked them to share more about their day to day roles in procurement and shed some light on how agency account managers can develop stronger relationships with them.

In this episode we discuss:

* What they look for in long term agency supplier relationships
* Where they see the value in agency account management and some tips on how to keep the relationship on track
* Advice for how to approach someone in procurement when you don't have a relationship currently
* Why involving procurement in how you expand your relationships within a company makes sense
* How they make an agency selection and how you can stand out from the rest

There are so many golden nuggets in this episode, you'll want to grab a pen and make some notes. I hope this will prompt you to review your current client relationships and identify where perhaps your relationship with procurement isn't very strong and also ideas for how to strengthen it.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>marketing procurement agency account manager</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to avoid stress and burnout in an agency environment, with Louisa Pau</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/r8k7mx78</link>
      <itunes:title>How to avoid stress and burnout in an agency environment, with Louisa Pau</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>8</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">71w67y60</guid>
      <description>Louisa has a powerful message for you if you are working in an agency.

She successfully built and sold her healthcare communications agency Woolley Pau in 2012 but her health suffered as a result and she ended up hospitalised.

In this episode she shares her journey and provides advice and guidance for others who may be inadvertently heading in the same direction.

In this episode she shares with us:

* The 10 signs you may be heading for burnout without realising it
* Why trying to be the 'hero' at work can have a detrimental affect on you, your health and those around you
* What resilience is and why it's not just about 'bouncing back'
* The difference between healthy and unhealthy stress and how to spot the tipping point
* Why stress goes undetected until it's too late
* Where to seek support if you think your health is suffering as a result of pressure, challenge and stress
* The first few steps you can take right now if you think this may be affecting you
* What she is doing now in her new business Otherboard to help those in agencies to prepare for, recover from and adapt in the face of stress or challenge 

I think this topic isn't discussed enough in agencies, environments that tend to operate at a hundred miles an hour most of the time.  Louisa provides some sage advice and guidance having trodden the path and who now dedicates her time to helping others .

If you recognise yourself in what Louisa was describing I would urge you to seek help by contacting Louisa to discuss your situation.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Louisa, I'm delighted to have you on the show on the show today, I've been wanting to have a chat with you for ages. And I know what you're going to share is going to be so valuable to people in working agencies. So I'm just going to give you a short introduction. But obviously, we know each other through the healthcare communications industry, you're probably one of the most well known people for having built and sold your own agency Woolley Pau. So I know that you've got a huge amount of experience and having run the agency for 19 years. But you then pivoted to start another business in 2013, which is called Otherboard. And one of the biggest reasons for the listeners that I invited you on the show is because your journey and story is just so powerful. And it's sort of led you to do what you do now. So without revealing too much, I'd love if you could spend a couple of minutes just introducing yourself.<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> Oh, thanks, Jenny. It's lovely to be here. Yes, I mean, you've told my story, really, I founded, built and sold the agency. What people probably don't know is that during that time, I also had four boys, and that it very nearly killed me. And I thought, you know, I learned some, I learnt a lot of lessons the hard way, by just making the mistakes and doing it. And, and now, the reason for setting up Otherboard was that I really felt that I didn't want to do it again, which a lot of people do, they kind of go and do it again, I wanted to help other agency leaders, grow their businesses have it all, and not feel guilty and not nearly killed them. So have it all and have a healthy business and a healthy life. And I felt that I could have more impact by working with lots of agencies rather than just doing it again for myself.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> So if you take us back to when you were growing your agency, because it probably was one of the most successful agencies, there wasn't anyone in the healthcare industry that didn't know Woolley Pau, the name, you're always winning awards. You were always known as a really creative agency. And so take us back to that time. And when, you know, what would, what's your day typically like,&nbsp; how was your rhythm, you know, running with four boys which is absolutely incredible.<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> Well, it was really crazy. I remember my third child, I went to a pitch two weeks after I had quite a sort of traumatic birth with him. I mean, I just did crazy things. I didn't have any maternity leave. So looking back, it does all look a bit crazy. I mean, I had loads of support at home. And but, you know, about 10 years into the agency life we were doing quite well. I mean, it was slow. People always remember sort of success, but it was very slow. But about 10 years in, we were doing quite well. We had a nice offices in Covent Garden. The children were really young. But you know, but things were kind of going well, we had started winning awards, and we were growing. And then we had, and I remember, I mean I was it was a stressful time. I remember going to an awards dinner, and I was sitting next to this client and he said to me, oh, tell me Louisa, what are your hobbies? I just laughed in his face. There wasn’t really time for anything else. The business and home like that just took up every part of my life. There was no, there wasn't time for anything else. And then we had really terrible year, which most people probably don't know about. We lost nine pitches in a row. We lost two of our biggest clients. We didn't renew their contracts. My husband had a massive work life crisis and decided that he wanted to give up his big job. And, and Dean, my business partner also had sort of family bereavements and things going on for him. So we were really sort of sorely tested at that time. And we just carried on, I think we kind of sat down and I used to tell this story was, how did I come back from that? And, you know, we sat down and we decided and we made a plan. And then three years later, we sold the business. But what I didn't used to tell people was that what the cost of that was, so the stress involved in that. But at the time I didn't really do self reflection. I just did my mantra ,because everyone has a mantra now my mantra was pull your socks up. We nearly wrote a book about it, a sort of self help book called Pull Your Socks Up. But I now sort of laugh about it. It's awful, really. But I had this sense that I could manage on my own, because that's what I've always done. I've set up on my own, you know, obviously with a partner, and with support, but I think my parents say that my first phrase was ‘self do it’. And that's how I was, I just thought I could do everything. And we did sell the business, and it was all very successful. And then a year after we sold the business, I got very ill and nearly died. And I had ignored the warning signs. And and I believe that that illness, the cause of that was probably years and years of ignored stress that finally caught up with me. And, I can't remember what we were saying now!<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> No. And this is fascinating, actually, the timing of when it happened. So you sold it,&nbsp; all of this stress was going on? You had this huge amount of pressure on you, additional pressure, when you lost all the clients, you lost the last two clients lost the pitch, Dean's family problems. And then, but But you made it through that, then you sold, then a year later, it actually affected your health. So looking back, the accumulation is massively powerful.<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> And I think that's what people do, they ignore the, there were warning signs. So which I ignored up, I kind of ignored for instance, during that three years, I was suffering quite badly from heart palpitations. And I did go and see a cardiologist, I had tests. And he came, the test came back and he said, Well, you know, everything's fine. You're just suffering from stress, you know, there's nothing else. So if I meant thinking, Okay, it's just stress. Now that I know what a bit about the science of stress and what that means I'm kind of amazed that that was just sort of brushed off because stress is, is incredibly unhealthy and can lead to serious illness if you don't deal with it. And you know, I had other, you know, other warning signs, like feeling, you know, those sort of feelings of guilt that I wasn't doing enough for the business or enough my family, you know, that's a very common sort of warning sign. And the trouble is that, that feeling of stress starts to become normal. And that's what happened to me, I think that was just my normal. And so it was only when it just came to a point where I literally nearly died, that I just had to go what, and physically I couldn't go back to the business, I was really quite poorly for a long time afterwards. And then it took, you know, the trauma of having to have a massive operation, the trauma of all that took actually years to process. And, and for me to get healthy again. And, you know, I just really don't want that to happen to other people.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Absolutely. And that is, and that's one of the reasons I wanted to invite you on, because I think this is, you know, like, what you've described is probably other agency leaders are listening to this and thinking Well, okay, maybe I'm ignoring the signs, or maybe that kind of little heart flutter that keeps happening, you know, you don't know how it's gonna manifest to you, as you say. So talk us through what your actual sort of routine looked like, because maybe other people can identify, was it because you were working weekends? Or evenings? Or was it the relentlessness of everything? Or you said you had help? But wha, what did your sort of day to day existence look like?<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> I suppose when the children were very young, getting up really early, so lack of sleep, getting up really early. Um, I mean, it's all a blur, really, for when they were really young, I can almost hardly remember feeling really tired all the time, getting up really early. So I would normally go into the office early, and then we had a nanny that would come in until my husband gave up his job. And then he looked after the children, as he had a basically a breakdown. Um, so we were both quite stressed for a long time. And then it you know, looking back, I just think I wasn't putting my energy, it's all about energy, what you put your energies into, and I think at work, like many agency owners, I felt I had to do it all as well as have it all. And so I probably just got got involved in too much in everything, and it towards the end, yes, I did let go of stuff, delegate stuff, have a good management team. But even so I think I was probably a bit too much the hero, you know, sort of stepping in when there was problems to be solved. Or if not meddling with, with things. It's a common theme I see in all with all the clients I work with, and really not, I suppose I didn't really, my role was a bit of everything. And so I just got involved in everything, everything to do the agency, you know, going to, you know, dealing with clients, dealing with the finances of the agency. I mean, my business partner used to always say, I was the conscience of the agency, I was really good at looking at creative work and deciding if it was good enough for us to present. So I did get involved at that stage, you know, at that level with creative work. Yeah, it's a lot of travelling around , which is funny now, because you spend so much time to go into meetings, spending time at clients. And it's actually quite a funny question, because I almost can't remember what, I think it really was just this blur of, and then coming home, you know, bathing the children trying to spend some time with them and the weekends with just fully the family. Unless we were doing a pitch or something, then you'd go in. I mean, I used to think that we had this healthy agency, because we didn't encourage late working, you know, staying up all night, every week. Yes, we did do it every now and then for a pitch, but we encouraged everyone to go home, because I did. But it was still stressful. Does that answer your question? And I almost can't really remember the details.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Sounds to me like you were on autopilot. And you were just doing, doing, doing? And how did it? How did it affect everybody else? Like were you noticing any reactions from other people? Or did anyone at any point take you to one side and say, Louisa, you know, I feel like you're doing too much? Was there no one around you at the time? Did no one dare to come near you? &nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> I think people used to find me quite scary, which I always find really odd, but I think they did. Oh, no that never happened. I think I mean, I did speak to my business partner, Dean. Yeah, I mean, I did want some time out of the business. But it was just so hard to sort of accept that. I did get a mentor. It was around that time before we sold the business. And he was really helpful. And that was the only time I really got some support. Apart from joining, I was a member of the IPA and the Institute of Practitioners for advertising. I was on Council and I also ran the health care group for a while. And that was a brilliant support network, because they were my peers and people that you know, and I'm still friends with some of them now. And that's been a really, you know, when you, I would advocate that to anybody to find peers that you can talk to, because they're the only people that really understand what you're going through.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Did you ever share? I mean, because to certain extent, I mean, it's always a double edged sword, isn't it? The reason you were so making sure that everything was done just so, you didn't drop any balls, and you were making sure that the company was operating at its highest level, and you got the success as a result, but actually, what was happening behind the scenes was personally, it was having a detrimental effect, albeit very slowly, chipping away at your health. And I'm just curious, like you were surrounded I mean, as if you hadn't didn't have enough to do you also get involved with the IPA and all that. So with your peers? Was this topic ever brought up? Or was it not discussed? The fact that hey, you know, like, um, you know, was it a bit like a badge of honour saying no, we're doing it all? Were you able to talk about it? Or was it a lack of consciousness on your part that you didn't actually know enough about how it was affecting you to be able to share how you were feeling?<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> I think I kept it very much, I did share with my husband and, and my business partner, um, that I was stressed that I felt guilty that you know, those kind of feelings. I don't think I did really share it with anybody else. I mean, we shared issues we had, you know, around, say pitching or something or issues or, you know, something to do with contracts or procurement, but they were more sort of functional things we didn't really share about how we were feeling in that way. I think I didn't I think, I put on my brave face. I smiled a lot, because that's what I did. I looked after everybody. That's, that's what I did. I pretended I pretended for years and years, everything was fine. And, you know, the way you introduced me, I obviously did a really good job, did a fantastic job.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> This is the thing, it's like everything is in line in life is a balance, isn't it? You know, it has to somehow calibrate. So when, if we go back to that time, because what I'm what I'm really keen to do is to and as what you're doing now, I want to dig into how you're helping agencies now, because I think this is such a brilliant topic to talk about. I think so many people do suffer from stress, pressure guilt, when they're growing an agency, building an agency or working in an agency, actually, because it's very 100 miles an hour, everything, isn't it. And I just think it's a topic personally that I don't think talked about enough. So I'm keen to kind of try to pull out from you, what you believe people can do to recognise that they might be going down a path that they don't want to be doing. And quick, more quickly do something about it. You said that a mentor came into life and help support you, you could talk to your husband about things. But what I mean, you're obviously working now with agency owners leaders, what signs do you see from the outside looking in that they might be like you just getting on with it. But really, they need to be, there's a bit of a warning bell that you can see.<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> Sometimes I wonder, maybe, maybe that this doesn't exist, maybe I've just made it all up, I have those moments. And then for instance, the other day, I'm in an agency group that I'm in, there's a little chat, and 18 agency owners, but in this chat talking about feeling overwhelmed, feeling stressed. And these are the warning signs that you can't relax, that your sleep is interrupted. Or maybe you have that like 4am feeling where you wake up worrying about everything, or just little niggles like, you know, for anybody watching, things like headaches or you know, that you don't normally have itchy skin. Or just that feeling, you know, in your stomach, you know, that kind of like constant pressure in your stomach, which, which you might have, or even it could be more about, like starting to doubt yourself or that you know that you might make mistakes. And also, you know, actually making poor decisions, because when we're in that stress state, so there's a difference between healthy stress and unhealthy stress. This is important to realise. So, you know, I've noticed it in the last six months during the whole COVID time, there was a kind of sense that the first few months of it, that's just huge stress. But in a way, for some people, it was sort of healthy stress, because it's like, right, something's happening. It's almost sort of exciting, we've got to change things, we've got to do things differently. And that's what happens. Healthy stress is fine, it improves performance. And we've all felt that, you know, you start a new project or a new job or a new relationship. It's exciting. And that, but there's a tipping point which is where it turns into unhealthy stress. And that's the thing that we're not very good at noticing. Because we start to just think that this level of stress is normal. And it's realising when we start feeling those warning signs that it's tipping into unhealthy stress. And that that's the time to sort of do something about it. Because healthy stress makes is great for good decision making. But unhealthy stress is the opposite. So agencies should really worry about it because it's also really bad for creativity. Because creativity needs calm. It doesn't need stressed in the unhealthy sense of stress. So the other thing that is a little warning sign is that whole ‘I am fine. I'm fine.’ Yeah, yeah, smiley everyone's smiling because nobody's fine all the time. So that's that sort of understanding there are diminishing returns to that stress is very important for all and you're right, especially in agencies because it's already a stressful environment. You win pitches exciting, you lose pitches that's all for you, you know, have a new client you've got to get going. That's lots of new stuff to do. This is always up and down stressful. It is that kind of environment. So we need to really watch out for it more than many other people.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> What's the first thing that you would suggest someone did, if they listen to listening to this, and they perhaps are thinking, I think that I'm starting to go down the route of the more unhealthy stress, rather than the healthy stress, what's the very first thing that they should do really?<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> Brilliant, they've already done the first thing, which is to notice it. So being self aware, is the first step to kind of having a plan. Because if you're, if you don't notice it, then you're just going to fall into it. And what happens is people go until they fall over. So people might get ill or, or literally can't go to work, you know, suffer burnout. So noticing it, being self aware is the first good step, then talk to somebody, most agencies do have some sort of, they're usually covered under their insurance, they do normally have somebody you can talk to like a kind of counselling services, you can just at least you can talk to somebody. But I would just suggest talking to, you know, a good friend, or, you know, just just to be able to voice those feelings is really important. And talk to somebody that makes you feel good. And talk to somebody that's going to say, Oh, I know somebody that's got stress, but you don't want to talk to the conversation. Yeah, know exactly. You want to talk to somebody who's going to go, I hear you. Yeah. So talking is, is really important. There's loads, there's loads you can do you can do for yourself, I would as a small step, we could do it actually, we could do it now, if you want is, it's up to you, a way of holding a stress, stress response as a physiological response. And one way to hold it is just a simple breathing. And if you start learning how to do that, that's a great way to get yourself into a more calm, alert state. So even if you just take a couple of deep breaths, but if you have a minute, would you like to do it now?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> I'd love to do it. I’m going to get away from the microphone, I don't want to impose my breathing on anyone.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> So it's just a really simple breathing technique called heart focus breathing. Just take a deep breath to start. And then just focus your attention in your heart or chest area. And then just start to breathe through your nose in a nice, balanced way. So for instance, in for a count of four, or five, and out for the same. And make sure you don't hold your breath on the ingress or the outlet.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Your voice is making me feel very relaxed as well, to be honest, I honestly, I physically feel better, just breathing twice there. And your voice is calming me down.<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> This is a great little technique that you can use with your eyes open anywhere. So if you're having a conversation with a client was like a stressful conversation or a colleague, or you're about to go into a meeting, if you do this just for a minute. It's so simple. The key is just to take your attention to your heart, it interrupts your automatic kind of breathing patterns. So attention to heart balanced in and out. And that's all you have to do. And that's just a simple little technique to take away. And yeah, it's funny, I was finally getting you were saying about talking about being, you know, about how you were then and I sort of think I would never have done that. I've never have known to do that.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Well, you take breathing for granted, don't you? We don't even think about using your breath as a technique.<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> And it's great because we do have an autonomic nervous system that makes us breathe without thinking.&nbsp; But the brilliant thing is you can interrupt it. And what that does, it gives you a little bit, gives you a little sort of top up, I sort of like to talk about your inner battery in terms of resilience. And what happened to me is my battery just ran out. I had no more reserves, I had nothing. And a little breathing like that just tops up your battery, just a small amount and there's loads of other things you can do. But that's just a quick one, and it halts the stress reaction. Because every time you'll stress like that you're building up cortisol in your body. It's just so bad for you.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> So is it cumulative? I mean, I don't know a lot about cortisol. So you add more and more and more? I mean, it's, well, I mean, my, my father died of cancer, and I'm sure a lot of the manifestation in his body that started it, he was he was very, very stressed. But I so that's one technique that people can use, which is really super helpful. Thank you so much for sharing. Tell me about the other ways that you help people when they come to you like, what's your advice for people? Because Do you find that the more you talk about this topic, the more people start sort of secretly contacting you and saying, hey, Louisa, I heard you talk about this.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Louisa: Well, what tends to happen is people go, I know,&nbsp; I agree I am, I'm really stressed, I really need this, but I've got no time. And because they are so overwhelmed, it's very hard for them to see how they could find the time. So the first thing is to help find some time, you know, help help even just, you know, one of the little workshops I run for whole agencies is how to have a good day. And that just is just like little productivity tips, you know, because until you find, you know, a bit about a bit of time to have for yourself. And I think a lot of agency owners are actually really good at looking after their staff, but they often don't spend any time on themselves. So until they're ready to actually say, I'm worth spending some time on because if I don't, I can't look after all these other people, then actually, there's usually a bit of a time lag, which is awful, because I don't want to get, I don't want them to get to the point where they're burnt out when they get to me, because then they probably need to go to the doctor, not to a coach. So I really want to help people before they get to that point. So the key is programmes, I think quite a lot of people do sort of resilience workshops, and that kind of thing. But I stopped doing them because I realised that one session is really not, you've got to do a programme, because this stuff tends to be ingrained. You're not going to change it, you know, in one, one session, this is going to take this is going to take some time and some commitment to help people.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> And typically, what do people say about working with you during a programme? You know, how has it, how does it tend to impact them? Like what what did they, how did they describe their journey and their experience of you being able to help them with that transformation?<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> So they normally talk about feeling calm, which again, always makes me laugh, because I've always been known for being this kind of loud, extrovert person. I love the fact I'm making people feel calm. And they always talk about clarity. Like, suddenly they can see what they need to do. They, they have a plan. They have the next step they feel, they just feel, they often say they feel better. And for different people, it means different things. But usually, they see the next step that they're going to take and it feels doable and exciting. And they feel energised.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Is that&nbsp; what you help people do is develop their own bespoke plan for them and where they're always, tailored to what they need?<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> Yeah, I mean, the techniques, and if I'm doing the resilience programme itself, there are there's a workbook and we work through it, but it's all based on them and what they need, and everyone's at different points in that journey. You know, some people I work with are really, really stressed and overwhelmed, and other people less so but they can see it could come if they don't do something about it. And we're also working on growing the business or, you know, helping them grow the business as well as the cost themselves. And that's the mix.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Well, I was gonna say, I mean, not only can you help them with their health, you can help them with the practical side of running a business, can't you? And presumably, I mean, that's the beauty of working with someone like yourself, who has trodden the path of growing and selling successfully an agency, you know, it's like, well, there's nothing probably that you come up against now that you haven't, you know, with someone else that you haven't experienced yourself.<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> I think that does mean that I have huge amounts of empathy for them. It might sound a bit odd but I really love my clients. Because, you know, when I'm in the moment with them, I you know, I really want to help them and, and I think they, you know, they clearly feel that support and I prefer now to take more of a coaching approach, which is really believing they have, they're the experts in their life, and they will find the answers that work for them. So yes, I may, you know, help, I may with my questions, and, you know what, what to ask them that might help them. And if I'm doing blended sort of mentoring and coaching, I may suggest some things if that's helpful to them, but usually, it's going to work much better if they find the ways that work for them.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny: </strong>You said before about, you know, the agency owner is very good at looking after their team and recognising stress in them. But then, you know, it's it, they're not looking after themselves. I think what I've realised working with a lot of agency account managers, is how the agency owner shows up within the business can have a real effect on everybody. I mean, their energy levels, their approaches. And I remember, when I was, I was running Publicis between different MDs, I was picking up the reins. I remember, I was I was what you just described, I was really resonating with what as you were describing it, I was, I was working weekends I was full on. And I was really excited. I thought actually, it was this anxious anxiety, I think all the time. And it wasn't until an old MD came to visit me for coffee. And she actually really helped me because she leaned forward said, Jenny, are you okay? And I went, it came as a shock, the question, but she'd noticed the change in my energy, my demeanour. And obviously, I was carrying myself and, you know, imposing that way of being to my team, so God knows what detrimental effect it had on everybody else. But do you think that's equally as important that, you know, ultimately, you're, you're looking after yourself so that you can help your team perform better?<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> Absolutely and as I say, I do find that most agency owners do really care about their team. And somebody I was talking to you the other day used the metaphor of the oxygen mask, they were saying, you know, if you don't put the oxygen mask on yourself first, how can you help everybody else? And, and I think that yeah, I mean, the impact on your staff is massive, because it could just be that you're micromanaging. That could be the impact of it, because you're so worried about everything, but you're constantly checking, checking, checking. Instead of going, I've trained them, I've empowered them. Jenny's done a fantastic account management programme with them. And you know, that I can let that go. And they might not think of that as a kindness, but it's actually so important for them to concentrate on the things that only they can do. And that's the biggest piece of advice I would always give anybody running a business is to really think about. And at home as well, you know what? So for me looking back, like what, what was it that only I could do with the children that only their mum will do? Because there are some things they don't, they didn't need me to pack their lunch, but they did need me to go to their assemblies, which I did go to most often. For instance, you know, so deciding what only you can do in the business, what what could you know, where you bring value to the business, and what you can let go of, or outsource or get somebody else to do is so important. And that's a really key step to, you know, having a healthy life and a healthy business.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Yeah, that must be quite cathartic for someone to sort of sit down with you and just pour it all out and analyse different areas of their life with someone else that can really have a practical and pragmatic approach to what can you leverage? What do you need to absolutely do? And what don't you need to do because that must in itself actually feel like a relief? And just you've mentioned your family a few times. And I hope you don't mind me asking the question, but do you think that your family in any way suffered as a result of what you were experiencing?<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> Yeah, I do. I do. I feel a bit emotional when you ask that, I mean, some of not all of it was bad. So I have four boys who are and I think partly, they were already lovely, obviously. But I think having seen me really, really ill meant they've always just been incredibly loving and sweet and my youngest son, I think it's the reason he's decided to go into medicine. Because he was only nine at the time, and it really it really affected him. And it was really sad at the time. But yeah, and I think it was a good thing for my marriage because I think we kind of fell in love again. In the hospital. Because it you know, sometimes those things are give you that real sense of what you could have lost, you know, and that perspective. So I don't, it's not all bad. You know, there was some amazing things that came out of it, including, you know, that I love what I'm doing now. And, yes, a lot of love. And I think I also have, I think one thing I gained was empathy, a lot more empathy for, for everyone. And, and I feel very blessed to have that, because it's, it helps me every day.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> It's so powerful. I mean, it's so powerful to think that your son chose a career path as a result of what he was experiencing, that it had such a positive impact on your relationship. And I suppose in those times you do understand who your true friends are, and who your true supporters and the people that really care and love, love you. I'm sure. I mean, just out of interest, did you find that people from the industry were rallying round? Or did you want? Did you? Did people come out the woodwork that you didn't think had that sort of empathy, as you refer to at the time? Or were you surprised at the lack of care in general?<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> I don't think it was particularly one or the other. I think a lot of people just didn't really, I don't think it really registered with people. I think some people knew I'd been very ill. But you know, people were just busy and getting on with their lives. So I think apart from my sort of close, friends and, and sort of close business, friends, I don't think people really knew. I mean, people are funny, I remember smart people often, but I remember being in hospital and realising how, how little people understand about people who are sick, really, really sick. And, you know, sending you like huge boxes of chocolates that, you know, like work people thinking, what, you know, I'm really ill, I can't eat anything. It's sort of, they've got their PA to send a big box of chocolates. I think there is a sort of, I don't know, I think people don't really I don't think people really sort of understood. And I think if you're in a sort of leadership role, people just want us to be better. You know, I don't really want to know that you're, yeah, that human.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Exactly. That's, that's really interesting. That's really interesting. So the gesture was there, but the execution fell down. I'm interested to, to know if what else you would advise you've shared some really valuable tips, I think, you know, first of all, having a recognition of what you're going through and talking to someone about, and you've shared, the fact that, you know, breathing techniques really helped to initially calm you down, to think about your life in terms of areas that perhaps you could leverage, you know, and somebody else's services or tools even to, to help yourself. And I'm interested sort of to expand on that too, to understand the different ways that you work with people, I know that you prefer to work as a programme, and you don't do sort of one off resilience workshops or anything, but yeah, what do you do, you do that as a group? Or is it always one on one?<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> Both I like, I really like both. And I've found doing group coaching on zoom or group mentoring works really well. I love it. I never thought I'd say that because I really like being with people. And there's something about it that seems to work when people are in their own homes. So I do both. I love doing both. I work with small groups, unless it's a workshop like I'll do a How to Have a good day workshop. I can do that with 20 people. But with the mentoring and coaching programmes, the groups are normally around seven seems to be an ideal number and the one to ones and so I tend to work with the business owners and then also do groups with their teams or sometimes one to one with their teams, depending on what the need is?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> And have you got any examples of perhaps agencies that are excelling in this area that are kind of super aware? And they have any kind of initiatives that they do? Like, what have you seen best practice with agencies?<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> Yes, I've been thinking about this, um, I think some, some, maybe bigger companies are tracking they’re maybe doing online surveys tracking, you know, the happiness of their staff. Some are doing training programmes. But this says, I don't know if there is a lot of really great best practice. I think, as I mentioned earlier, some will have sort of mental health signposting around, you know, so people will know, maybe to ask things in a certain way, and if and then we'll know who to sort of post them to signpost, them to, they might have a counsellor that you can talk to. And I think the thing with resilience is that people think it's all about sort of bouncing back after something terrible's happened. And so the programmes tend to be for that. So there's a lot of good stuff for people who have fallen over and say, is some way you can go and to help you up. But the way I just define resilience is that it's the capacity to prepare for, to recover from and to adapt in the face of stress or challenge. And so it's that building up your inner battery that that building capacity, and I think there isn't a lot of great work going on with that. I think there's good stuff. But what happens when I'm ill, but not so much, how do we create this capacity, which means that you are healthier individual at work? Even that's creative, you know, building up your inner battery, because I think everyone that resonates with everyone, isn't it? They can just imagine, yes, that makes total sense.<br><br></div><div>And we do it, you know, for our cars, you know, we have MOT's we have regular service checks, we put oil in we check it, we look at the light switches, come on, but we don't do it for ourselves. And I don't, I don't think companies have really, you know, I think agency owners have been really good at the last few months that keeping the energy going the team, you know, I've worked really hard on team culture. And I think they do care about how much people are working, especially at home, where they're working possibly even longer hours back to back meetings on zoom, and I care about it. But I'm not sure there's I haven't seen any signs of brilliant best practice in terms of ongoing programmes.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Would you say that, just a couple more questions before I'm just conscious of your time, would you say that COVID the whole situation with everyone working remotely and on their own? Have you seen a higher prevalence in, you know, people who are, it is affecting their health because not everybody loves? You know, if you're maybe over 50, you know, you love being at home and working from home because you're very self sufficient. But generally speaking, our industry does attract a lot of young talent, doesn't it? And if you're starting in an agency, part of it, part of the enjoyment of an agency is the bars and pitching and stuff like that. So would you say that you'd seen any trends or changes recently?<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> I mean, I think it's been such a mix, some people and it's not just a age related, you know, I know some younger people also love it depends where they live, you know, what their home life is, what their commute used to be. And some people have loved it and are healthier, doing my exercise eating better, because they've got more time. Other people have gone completely opposite seems to be two camps, they put on weight, they've drunk too much and not as much exersie. I think the common theme is there's definitely more anxiety around. Some people have stress as well. But there's definitely kind of over here there's this like level of anxiety, which we've all got. Now, I've been working really hard on building up my inner battery these last few weeks, especially because I can see that it's being depleted by this kind of background anxiety that that is there all the time for us to see. So, so I think it's a real mix. I think that is more anxiety, more stress for everybody.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> I think what I from what I've seen, I agree with you as well. Louisa, I think this is so powerful, I'd love you to share where, because I'm sure there are people listening to this thinking, oh my god, she's like, taking the words out of my mouth. That's exactly how I feel. And I recognise that I do need to do something about it. So I find it hugely inspiring that you're doing what you're doing because of your background because of who you're helping. And having trodden the path before. I think that does make you so much, so much more valuable, because you get it as you say, your empathy is increased. So how can people reach you who, who are the best people that you would like to be contacted by? And how can people contact you if they want to know more?<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> So they can find me on LinkedIn, or email me, <a href="mailto:louisa@otherboards.co.uk">louisa@otherboards.co.uk</a>. I mean, I'm happy to chat to anybody. My usual starting point is usually business, the agency owner or person running the agency, or somebody in the senior management team. They're usually the people that employees employ me as it were. And so they would be the best people.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Amazing. And any finally, anything that I haven't asked you that is pertinent about your story that you would like to share? Because I just want to capture everything. Anything that I haven't asked you that I probably should have done?<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> I don't think so. We've been really kind of.. No, I’d better now share any more – my poor family!&nbsp; &nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> I honestly, I really want to raise the awareness of this because I, having worked in the industry myself, I I totally believe that what you're saying is so valuable. And I just think it's phenomenal what you're doing. So it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for agreeing to do this. And, yeah, just carry on doing what you're doing. I think it's hugely valuable in the industry. So thank you.<br><br></div><div><strong>Louisa:</strong> Thank you.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2020 13:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/08mnxr9w.mp3" length="50959067" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/aedf9760-1376-11eb-b22a-b9c68027a86e/aedf98a0-1376-11eb-8540-cbd1854a574a.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2547</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Louisa has a powerful message for you if you are working in an agency.

She successfully built and sold her healthcare communications agency Woolley Pau in 2012 but her health suffered as a result and she ended up hospitalised.

In this episode she shares her journey and provides advice and guidance for others who may be inadvertently heading in the same direction.

In this episode she shares with us:

* The 10 signs you may be heading for burnout without realising it
* Why trying to be the 'hero' at work can have a detrimental affect on you, your health and those around you
* What resilience is and why it's not just about 'bouncing back'
* The difference between healthy and unhealthy stress and how to spot the tipping point
* Why stress goes undetected until it's too late
* Where to seek support if you think your health is suffering as a result of pressure, challenge and stress
* The first few steps you can take right now if you think this may be affecting you
* What she is doing now in her new business Otherboard to help those in agencies to prepare for, recover from and adapt in the face of stress or challenge 

I think this topic isn't discussed enough in agencies, environments that tend to operate at a hundred miles an hour most of the time.  Louisa provides some sage advice and guidance having trodden the path and who now dedicates her time to helping others .

If you recognise yourself in what Louisa was describing I would urge you to seek help by contacting Louisa to discuss your situation.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Louisa has a powerful message for you if you are working in an agency.

She successfully built and sold her healthcare communications agency Woolley Pau in 2012 but her health suffered as a result and she ended up hospitalised.

In this episode she shares her journey and provides advice and guidance for others who may be inadvertently heading in the same direction.

In this episode she shares with us:

* The 10 signs you may be heading for burnout without realising it
* Why trying to be the 'hero' at work can have a detrimental affect on you, your health and those around you
* What resilience is and why it's not just about 'bouncing back'
* The difference between healthy and unhealthy stress and how to spot the tipping point
* Why stress goes undetected until it's too late
* Where to seek support if you think your health is suffering as a result of pressure, challenge and stress
* The first few steps you can take right now if you think this may be affecting you
* What she is doing now in her new business Otherboard to help those in agencies to prepare for, recover from and adapt in the face of stress or challenge 

I think this topic isn't discussed enough in agencies, environments that tend to operate at a hundred miles an hour most of the time.  Louisa provides some sage advice and guidance having trodden the path and who now dedicates her time to helping others .

If you recognise yourself in what Louisa was describing I would urge you to seek help by contacting Louisa to discuss your situation.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Secrets of highly effective agency leaders, with Spencer Gallagher</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/r8k7rky8</link>
      <itunes:title>Secrets of highly effective agency leaders, with Spencer Gallagher</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>7</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">71w6nzv0</guid>
      <description>In this episode I'm delighted to have as my guest Spencer Gallagher who took time out of working on the second edition of his best selling book, Agencynomics, which he co-wrote with his partner Peter Hoole, to share his thoughts on agency leadership and client management. 

Having built and sold his own agency in 2008, he now runs the UK's leading growth consultancy for agency owners, Cact.us and is co-founder of the Cact.us Academy, a training portal for agency owners.

He also heads up the not for profit global community of agency owners, also called Agencynomics and co-hosts the vodcast Agencyphonics where he interviews owners and thought leaders about growing an agency business.

In this episode we cover everything from what he thinks is most important when leading an agency and how he approaches agency growth, to the biggest agency trends he's seeing and how to stay up to date and relevant in this time of digital transformation. 

We cover:

* Key habits of highly effective agency leaders
* What successful agency leaders are doing now to accelerate their agency's growth
* What Spencer would do differently if he was starting an agency again
* Key trends in the agency landscape
* Why you need to keep learning to keep yourself relevant
* Why agencies need to start thinking beyond social media and websites to supporting clients with their digital transformation..


...and lots more nuggets you'll want to hear if you're an owner, leader or account manager.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Jenny:</strong> <strong>Welcome to the Creative Agency Account Manager Podcast with me, Jenny Plant, from Account Management Skills Training. I'm on a mission to help those in agency client service keep and grow the existing relationships, so their agency business can thrive.<br></strong><br></div><div>Welcome to Episode Seven. I have a real treat for you today, particularly if you're an agency owner. I've managed to grab an hour in Spencer Gallagher’s diary and Spencer is in the middle of rewriting his book Agencynomics, which he wrote with his partner, Peter Hall and in this chat, we discuss what makes a successful agency leader now and what successful agency leaders are doing differently to accelerate their growth. What he’d do differently today if he was starting out his agency, what trends he's seeing in the agency landscape and why you need to keep learning to keep yourself relevant. He also shares loads of fantastic, really useful tips, particularly if you're an agency owner or leader and also if you're managing tribe relationships. So sit back, relax and I will introduce Spencer in more detail.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Spencer - for those in the agency world, you need no introduction whatsoever. But for those in the audience who may not have heard of you or met you, you run one of the leading well, the leading, UK agency growth consultancy, Cactus. You're also co founder of Cactus Academy, which is online training for agency leaders. You're also the author of the bestselling book Agencynomics, which is a phenomenal book for anyone growing an agency. And you also run the biggest global community for agency owners of the same name, Agencynomics. And you're also the host of the vodcast agency Phonics. So I'm thrilled because I know you advise companies, you're a non exec, you do a lot of speaking gigs so to get some time with you, I know you usually sit on this side of the fence,&nbsp; is an absolute delight for me. I'm absolutely thrilled. Just a short intro before I pass over to you to ask you to talk a bit about your history. We obviously met a couple of years ago and what struck me about you was first of all your energy, which is phenomenal. I just don't know how you get everything done, but also how you essentially adopted me into the Cactus and Agencynomics family, which I will be forever grateful for. And you've also gone on to trust me with many of your clients. So I just feel so at home in the community. I think you obviously attract a really decent, lovely type of person and you've created this really supportive community which is really active, really involved. And you just seemed so generous with everybody that you meet. So I would love you to share your journey with us because I obviously haven't mentioned the fact that you built a 20 billion turnover agency and sold it. So I would love you to share your journey with us.<br><br></div><div>Spencer: Thank you. That was a wonderful introduction. Thank you. When I hear it back, sometimes I'm also thinking, Wow, how do I find time to do all those things myself? Well I'm so busy, I had a complaint this week from someone, who said your PA, Abbie, who you know very well, has said it's currently 58 days to get a meeting with you.<br><br></div><div>Jenny: I'm not surprised.<br><br></div><div>Spencer: And I was trying to make the point that I actually look after about £100 million worth of agencies with 1000 staff and I think people don't always realise what I do in my day job. Agencynomics is obviously something that I do as a bit of a charity, sort of social enterprise ‘pay it forward’ my spare time. But yes, I mean a brief history of time. You know, I'm one of those kind of classic entrepreneur types, I think. I left school at 16. No qualifications Left home at 16. Didn't have the best start in life. You know, worked in clothes shops, selling clothes and so life wasn't that good for me in the beginning. It wasn't like, you know, pure poverty. But put it this way, you know, I brought myself up and your life wasn't simple and I had to be quite independent from a young age and I don't know, like I just worked really hard at everything I did, and I got some lucky breaks and I ended up at the age of about 27 getting made redundant. I went through three jobs in a year, got made redundant twice and decided that in my spare time I'd been playing on this thing called the Internet since about 93. So to give you an idea, Tim Berners Lee came up with the Internet html and in 1991 so 2 years later I'm taught myself to write websites and after being made redundant from a purple shed in my mum's back garden, I started to build websites. And I started to build at the time what I thought was a web development company. And then about three years later, somebody walked into the business and said I really love your agency and I was like, what's an agency and then from that moment onwards, the business really, really grew quickly. So that's kind of briefly how it started, obviously aside building websites when it was a joke to build websites. So if you told people you built websites in the year 2000, they'd laugh at you because it's a bit like crypto currency or Bitcoin today. And so you know there was a tough times I think we called ourselves new media agencies back then and so you know, it's a long story short. I won, I got a couple of big breaks. One of them was Tottenham Hotspur football club and I then became very big in sports and I ended up building websites for people like the NFL, worked with Jamie and Andy Murray before they were, you know, big time really, you know, Judy used to come down to the offices. So we did a lot in sport , sports was our niche. But we did end up working with other companies like with Cancer Research, a big client. Before we used iPhones and Samsung we used blackberries, a BlackBerry or crack brief as we used to call them. So, yeah, I was very fortunate. Grew it organically. No investments. Deloitte Tech Fast 50 Growing business and ended up in 2008&nbsp; really the big ad agencies had missed out on Digital. If you remember back then, they would call the digital team in their agency the dark arts department. Or they had, like, a separate division with a different name that did digital. A lot of big companies had missed out. They hadn't found a way to integrate digital into their advertising or marketing, so I sold the business very successfully. I was the only owner of the business and at 37 I kind of retired really, I sort of stopped working and my last pitch in an agency, I share this story sometimes with people, it was 63 hours with three hours sleep, and it was for a global business with Technicolor to do the re-brand and the global website development. And after kind of stopping work in 2010 I decided that I would never work or set foot in an agency ever again because I was just so burnt out. But the reality was after a year of sort of stopping working and having some time outs, a lot of my old friends, my old competitors, my frenemies, would ring me up and say, Hey, listen, there's a new era needed for a non-exec that understands technology, not just that Mad Men era. There were a lot of non execs 10 years ago who were very much from the advertising and marketing traditional world, whereas I was very much from the New World because I've been there and done it on did it organically I think there's a lot of connection there, so we started Cactus, and that was nine years ago now and it's been an amazing journey. You know, we’ve worked with a 1000 agencies,&nbsp; written a book and it’s been a lot of hard work, but I'm really proud of everything we've achieved.<br><br></div><div>Jenny: You should be as well. It's a phenomenal achievement. What drives you now? What drives you to continue?<br><br></div><div>Spencer: Well, I think it's still the same thing. You know, I was a 16 year old who left school with no qualifications. Who left home at 16 and I felt a failure and so I've always been driven by the fear of proving that I'm not a failure. You know, I've always wanted to be successful. Even when I sold the business, actually, I sort of fell off the top of Maslow’s triangle and crashed down because I'd sold the one thing that made me successful. And I had nothing to show for it anymore necessarily. I had a nice house and car, lovely family and, you know, but I didn't really have something that I had built and made, you know, I’d sold it. And so in a way, then that's a rebuild that, so the driver with Cactus all along is I guess, you know, a lot of people say, you know, you could be one hit wonder. I guess you know a lot of people could say because you build one business and sell it doesn't mean that you can do it again. Well, I think a couple of people said that to me. In fact, you just reminded me there was a statistic that said something like and this is true, like only 30% of people who build themselves a business go on to do it again. So I wanted to prove that I could do it again. And I think we've done that through Cactus, time and time again now through our clients and through the investments we've made.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: You know, I love that you shared, but that because I was just reflecting. And I'm sure a lot of people hearing that very open story and a really honest story wo;; identify with that because I think. Like, I didn't go to university. I mean, maybe in those days it wasn't so common, but that kind of drives me. And also I think you've got a shared love of personal development. You're always reading, aren't you? I mean, you interviewed Daniel Priestley..<br><br></div><div>Spencer: Yeah, I managed to get Daniel Priestly on my podcast.<br><br></div><div>Jenny: Amazing. So you're always developing yourself and your skills.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Spencer: It’s funny because they were sort of two or three books along the journey that really helped me,&nbsp; shape who I am. And when I say them, you know you'll laugh because they're the books that you probably see time and time again people always promoting. And the first book actually was it wasn't The Secret, but it was, I was discussing it this morning with someone, it was a book with a red cover, and it basically said ‘How to be successful in life’. This is a 16 year old me going. I'm earning £70 a week selling clothes in Foster's, which is like Top Man in a small town in Surrey, my life's not looking great, and I read this book and I find I left home with my mum at 15, my parents divorced. I moved to my dad’s house, and he had it in his, just as I left home at 16, he had it on the bookshelf, and it was something called ‘How to Be a Millionaire’ or How to Be Successful. One of those books and I read it and it said, close your eyes, sit somewhere comfortable. Imagine your life three years from now. Now I listen, I had nothing, right? I had no qualifications so at this point, I don't have anything other than this book telling me how I'm gonna I don't know, do something with my life. But I did it. I closed my eyes. I said, by the time I'm 20 I want to earn £20,000 a year, which, bearing in mind where I was, was quite an achievement. To give you an idea, I think I was earning about £4000 to £5000 a year, and that would probably be about the equivalent of about £10,000 today. So 20 would probably be about, what, £40,000 today. I want to have a company car and I want to own my own house. And three years from that day, I bought my first house. I was 19 years old. Interest rates were 15%. Not 1% like they are now 15%. I got a first time buyers discount. Some reason the visualisation worked. Now I don't know whether it was the manifestation of the secret or it was just the neuroscience, the fact that you know you achieve things, human beings, where we draw our attention to we focus and we achieve things. Who knows what the answer is? I still don't know. But what I do know is it worked. And so the first lesson I learned was about visualisation visualising your future, and even today, every day I read out a daily gratitude list where I'm grateful for the outcomes that are gonna happen to me. That was the first one. The second one was ‘How to win friends and influence people’. And that gave me an ability at the time to be able to talk to anybody. I think I kind of had that anyway, because I was in the bottom set for everything at school. So I hung around with rough kids. But then I was reasonably sporty enough to know the wealthy kids so I could kind of adapt up and down a little bit, that probably helps you in sales. But actually reading that book, you know how to win friends made me realise what's the saying, you know, to be interesting, you have to be interested, and just all of those techniques. And then lastly, it was ‘Think and grow rich’, which really underpinned the first book and you know for those people it’s a book that was written in 1927, ‘Think and Grow Rich’ and the book was at the time it just really struck a chord with me in many, many ways. So they were the kind of the early bits of reading I did, and what I found was because a lot of learnings from those books really helped me I realised that a real education in life actually starts the day you leave school, not the day – you don’t stop school and stop learning. You have to almost go, you know, and in fact, even I remember 2-3 years ago when digital technology started moving much more into distributed crypto, AI, you know, I went out every morning, walked 10 miles between six and 10K and 10 miles listening to audio books and podcasts around, AI,&nbsp; machine learning, trying to make sure that I'm staying relevant and I'm learning new things. Yes, a journey of learning has been really the heart of everything I do.<br><br></div><div>Jenny: And do you think that's the secret of success for an agency owner? Because I'm sure there’s agency owner is listening to this thinking I really would like to have whatever Spencer’s got to accelerate my agency's growth. What do I need to be doing differently? So do you see, when you meet so many, that the ones that stand out for you, you can see that they're going to be more successful. Are there any kind of traits?<br><br></div><div>Spencer: So the reality is, is that we're complicated people, human beings and I think that I'm very fortunate in, like a couple of my superpowers are able to sort of cut through. So where some people overly procrastinate or suffer from imposter syndrome or have, you know, barriers from, psychological barriers from when they were younger and their stage fright, whatever it may well be. I'm someone who always sees cut through. So I don't try and coach people, and I talk about it quite a lot. I'm more of a fitness instructor because I find that I don't really have the skills to be able to retrain the way people work. What I do is I tend to show them the answer and then I give them the trust and confidence to just make and take that action, that decision. And then when they do it and it works, you know then they are like, OK this is great. So the danger is with that, of course, is that if you don't coach someone, they never make the mistakes. They don't go through the process themselves, don't learn it forever. So my approach is more like the PT instructor. You know, I'm moving the weight stuff. I'm telling how many reps you gotta do – you need to do three more, you know. But the moment I go, you might just revert back to going and hitting the Haagen Daz ice cream and I think a lot of agencies who start working with me, actually go back to who they were before. Because, you know, success, you know, is doing the right thing day in, day out, and failure is doing the wrong thing day in, day out. And so I'm just course correcting. I call it course correction. I have a philosophy that I believe is, you know, a successful philosophy, and I try and get people to understand that and embrace that and drive them down that route. But my skill, I guess, is to deal with all the different complex personalities and try and also find them the right people. Because, for example, you're a good example of this, because I find that it's very hard for me to work, I'm good at working with, like, agency owners, but I'm not so good at working with team members, you know, because team members do need coaching. They need a different level of empathy than I have time to give them. Apparently I’ve got a high EQ, I’ve just had my EQ test done today. I’m very highly self aware which is great. I have empathy, but I'm probably too busy sometimes to sit down and coach over a long periods of time. In fact, one of my colleagues who works with other non execs, he says, I sit in board meetings with other non execs and they spend six months trying to coach someone to do a new thing, and you come in, you just tell him to do it, you know, I think that so it's really good to bring you in to situations for me. Like I find it hard&nbsp; sometimes to bring out the best in client services because they need the empathy that to relate to someone who's worked in their role before. I haven't been an account manager, I had fantastic account manager client servicing in my teams. I made a lot of mistakes but in the end, I feel like I got a successful team through making lots of mistakes. But I think you know that’s where you’ve got to bring the right people in to do the job could be better than you. And I'm also good spotting that, you know, so does that answer the question?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: It does, fantastic answer. I wasn't expecting it to be answered like that, but absolutely and I was gonna ask you another one. If you were going to start again, because I know a lot of agency leaders that are here at the moment listening will be thinking Well, okay, so if you were going to start again, what other things that you'd be doing differently. Like you've said, you made a mistake. I'm sure a lot of us doing, that's how you learn sometimes. But you're very good at short cutting their learnings for others. So what if the top three things that you would be doing differently if you start it again now?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Spencer: Well, the thing that is really obvious, and I think people sometimes because I'm slightly more extroverted than I am introverted so it's easy for you to say these things. But, you know, Malcolm Gladwell says, you gotta be 10,000 hours to be an expert. I've done 20,000 hours now, you know, helping agencies grow and another 10 growing my own. And the one thing I've learned is that agencies do not exist without, before even clients come on boards and even when clients do come on board, if you don't have leads coming into the business, you will not have clients. You will not have services, people, processes, profit, cash. You won't have any of those things. And so the number one thing you need to understand is how are eads generated. It's not about creating the best products in the world than trying to figure out how you sell it. It's not, you know, you have to understand what is it the problem that you're going to solve as a service business? That's what we do. We solve problems. What's the problem that we're solving, and how am I going to create an abundance of people wanting to work with me to do that? So the first thing is, is for me all about that. Mow to create that in today's market, so if I started tomorrow and I have this thing, there's a lot of people say I don't know who the person is who maybe coins it, but there was a think it might be someone like Jim Rome or Tony Robbins they said, You know, if all the wealthy people in the world lost all their money tomorrow, they'd all have it back in five years. I really firmly believe that. I'm not someone who is obsessed about money at all. It is not thing for me, but the point is you see how to make life easier for yourselves. You know often&nbsp; as entrepreneurs and you see where the optical national agencies. But in today's world, what would I do in simple terms? I’ve been a massive fan of Daniel Priestley, and I would first of all say you read his book ‘Key person of influence’ in a world full of people on social media, establish your expertise, work on your personal brands, your personal brand identity. You did it before I did. I came across you when I was just liking and sharing other people's LinkedIn posts. And, you know, I would see you there talking about client services online, in video format. It was clear that you were an authority. And I think when I met you at the time, there was no other, I knew other people who did what you did, but you seem the biggest authority because you spoke about it the most. So I'd read ‘Key Person of Influence’. I’d work on my personal branding and my point of view and become an expert on what it is I'm looking to sell. And then the second thing, I would just get some LinkedIn training and learn how to use it properly. Because if it was the top 40 charts right now for lead generation agencies, I think the fastest riser is LinkedIn. I'm very fortunate, because I get to look at lots of pipelines every month, so I see where all the lead sources are. Since Covid started LinkedIn has been one of the fastest growing areas for new business its now appearing regularly on, whereas generally actually Twitter , Instagram they don't often appear on, they do, but not very often appear as lead sources in agencies. So if I started again tomorrow I’d work on my personal brand, work on learning how to talk about the process, to share what I'm doing, to demonstrate my expertise. And I would start to build a really good network of connections because the number one way – I’ve done around two surveys this year, Jenny, one was the UK Lead Generation survey, and one was the Global lead generation survey. And if you take out the number two, number three way for agencies to get business is always existing clients referring other clients or existing clients leaving. But if you remove those because they're already clients, the number one way is through networking, speaking ,thought leadership and so those three areas you need to build your connections, you need to set yourself some numbers. I mean, I used to have this thing, at Blue Halo where I'd meet 50 new people each month. And, I think today it doesn't have to be new people, but meaningful conversations on a regular basis will build your pipeline and if you build your authority then those two things come together. So that's what I would do in a nutshell.<br><br></div><div>Jenny: It's such good advice and funnily enough I've seen quite a few posts from agency owners saying I followed what Spencer’s telling me and this month I'm doing my 50 phone calls and it gets results. Why do you think people resist it? Is it difficult? And why do you think agency owners don't do it?<br><br></div><div>Spencer: You know I mean, it's funny because Agencynomics isn't my first community that I set up. In the early days of Cactus, I had a lot of people ringing me up, whose struggling in their businesses. Owners and I set up an early stage community, and I used to these talks in there. I used to share the philosophy that, you know, if you make 50 new connections a month and you understand what they do, then you share what you do then you're able to help them in some ways, to build some reciprocity and not unauthentically but genuinely you know, the more you help, the more business will come back. And I knew that because actually, when I analysed my own pipelines, there was one guy spent a million pounds with me over 10 years because I helped fix his email in 1999 when he was made redundant. And so you help people, connect to people and keep in touch. And so I tell people this. And I remember going to a dinner in Manchester about two years ago, and I hosted an agency dinner there. And someone say yeah, you’re always banging on about this meet 35 people a month, and that's just impossible. Now ir wasn't 50. It was 35.&nbsp; And I said, you know, it's Thursday. I'm in Manchester. Every day of the week, I'm in a board meeting from 10. 30 till five o'clock. So that means I've only had from 8. 30 to 10. 30 and maybe the evening. I just wanna let you know that you guys are my, I think it was the 70th people that I've met that week because I did a speaking event the night before, in fact you were there that week by the way. The MAA speaking event was about 35-40 people. There was quite there was a couple years ago. I'd worked out I’d met 70 people in four days, and you know the reality is there are 22 working days in the month, 21- 22 working days. If you talk to two people a day, you know that's 44 people a month. If you can't find, you know, an hour a day to have two conversations for half an hour over Zoom, you know, with people that you used to work with you, used to go to school with, ex colleagues, ex customers. Well, if you really want to be successful, then that's what you need. And by the way, everyone has a number. So although mine was 50, because if you have 50 conversations serendipitously, you will probably find two or three opportunities. You don't find 50, you find 1 to 3 and of those three, maybe one or two will convert. But that for me was worth about £200,000&nbsp; a month when I was doing your business. There were people I know they do a hundred, and they bring in maybe 40 a month. That's not a problem, but you've got to know your number because everyone will have a number based on the size, the stage they’re at, who they are, how they help people, etc, etc.<br><br></div><div>Jenny: I notice this might sound like a silly question, but are you finding that generally, particularly younger people prefer not to speak face to face or on the phone?<br><br></div><div>Spencer: Um, is it a younger person thing? I don't know. I've come across some people of all ages who do and don't do it. Is it a younger thing? Possibly. I mean, I don't know.&nbsp; I'm not sure that I’m qualified enough or done the research to identify whether or not. The way people work has definitely changed, but I would say, you know, I know some fantastic super connectors who are under the age of 30 who do do these things. So maybe not.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: I suppose the reason I'm asking is in my work with account managers who always tend to be a lot, obviously a lot younger than me, I often say, well, how about picking up the phone or just call them. I emailed and I said XY and Z and I got an email back and they tell me this whole story of what's happened over email and I said, well, how about just calling them or leaving a voice message or, you know, on LinkedIn and I suppose that was the reason for my question, really? And I was just wondering, is this a trend?<br><br></div><div>Spencer: I mean, I for me I think that's yes I think there probably is an overarching trend as communication has changed, and people can use, you know, WhatsApp or text or Snap or whatever to communicate that they don't need to ring up, pick up the phone. Interestingly enough, my son is 15. He talks into his phone, so they use Snapchat and they just send each other voice messages all the time. It’s easier than typing. They commentate through games. It's like doing a phone call so maybe going full circle. But, you know, if I'm honest about it even 20 years ago, maybe let’s say 10 to 15 years ago with my client service team, you know, I probably used to be nagging them to pick the phone up more because as soon as email came out, it was very easy to hide behind it. But I do think there's a lost art of communication. I think there is a lost art of picking the phone up, and I mean, I think through Covid, what was very exciting was all of a sudden a lot of marketing managers and clients who are quite hard to get hold of suddenly had a bit more time because they weren't commuting. And actually, I think a lot of people who hate networking as an example found it a lot easier to just Zoom call to speak to someone, then having to go into a building full of men and women in suits or whatever. You know, I mean that horrible feeling of and they could just do it in this kind of format. So I think it's, you know, it could well be a problem. And I think if you are an account manager, listening to this or account director and you, you know, be different. Be the 1% be the ones that pick the phone up, because that's how you're going to get cut through. If you want to be successful, you've got to do the marginal gain things you've got to do the 1% yeah, so you just got find a way to overcome the fear because actually, like all things, it scary the first time. But once you've done it. You know, it's like speaking. If I meet, so many people are scared of public speaking. But, you know, the reality is is that you know, you start off with a couple of people on your team and say can I test doing a talk with you two? Then you pick five and six and you know, one day you'll accidentally walk out like I did and there's 200 people and you know you can't even breathe, but you do it and then you realise, OK, I could do 200 now and it just gets easier as it goes up. We have to start somewhere.<br><br></div><div>Jenny: I'm so glad coming from you as well that advice was so golden for the creative agency account managers listening. Do you have any other advice that from what you've seen teams doing exceptionally well with their clients or making mistakes?<br><br></div><div>Spencer: I mean, I don't know whether we did talk about this much detail, but there's been a lot of, I think in the last eight weeks in particular where are we now we sort of October 2020 and certainly that middle of August, Campaign magazine started to do this kind of it's the end of the account director and the end of account manager. No one really sees them any more as relevant. They're not needed. And I just don't believe that. I think that the problem is because of technology now being at the heart of all marketing and advertising and agency businesses, whether your PR or whatever, the technology is moving so fast. Business growth has become exponential too, in fact, the first time in history, ever, where technology has outstripped business requirements in the past technology could never keep up with business and now it's the other way around. So the point is, is an account director you have to be commercially aware about your client's business? But you’ve also got to understand that their business is changing rapidly because of technology. So the problem is is that you have to invest. So my advice would be, it doesn't matter how much time your company give you to do research for learning and development. You've got to make your own time in the future world, I get up early every morning and walk before your day starts, or get in a car or whatever do now, get on a scooter but you're gonna listen and learn about your client's businesses and understand, you know, where things are changing. You've got to be relevant or you just become irrelevant. You become commoditised so my advice to anyone listening is, you know, there's a famous meme going around with Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, if you’re not spending five hours a week learning new things, you're not gonna be relevant. I genuinely believe that. I think, in fact, I would predict that during 2008 with the last recession hit, 2009, a huge volume of client service people got made redundant from agencies because they didn't understand digital. And what happened in 2008/9/10 all they knew about was print and traditional advertising channels. Now they all got made redundant, they all came back two years later as social media experts. That's kind of the joke of the time. They went away, realised they’d missed it all, learned about such a media, came back again again and got re trained, but they had to use a redundancy period to do that. The reason why I've already had five or six very senior client service directors I know been made redundant. And that's because they know the world of websites and social media. But they don't know the next world of digital transformation of, you know, machine learning, they don’t understand the next wave where technology is impacting on businesses. So my advice would be come up with your own learning and development plan to keep yourself relevant, to find your expertise, to understand your client's business. And don't be a victim to your company not giving you time to learn. It’s not about them. It's about you, about your future, your career, you know, you will become more valuable to that company, to the clients, to other organisations. So don't look at it is that you know my company aren't paying me to get trained out of work out of hours. Don't worry about it. Just do it. You know, I'm sure you probably did that when you were working back in the day.<br><br></div><div>Jenny: I always feel like I'm behind, so I could never absorb enough information. Honestly, there's not enough hours in the day, so I do have that drive to want to know more. And, I have noticed that some people do have that drive and others don't. But I think that's such a good point, like invest in yourself because it's about your career. It's not necessarily just about the agency you're working with, all the clients you're working with.<br><br></div><div>Spencer: If you work harder on yourself than you do in your job, you'll always be more successful in life. That was said by Jim Rohn and I mean, just to add, once I I sold my business. I went back and I got told, because I was a little bit anti Tony Robbins, because he's always very positive and I'm very positive. But someone told me a good friend of mine about Jim Rohn, who was Tony Robbins mentor. I listened to a CD by him. A CD. I've got loads of them. I still can't play them anymore. But you know his philosophy back then, you know, he said things like, you know, skip a meal. But don't skip reading for an hour every day. I mean, that advice is timeless. You know, people say I don't have time then just skip a meal and read, right?<br><br></div><div>Jenny: Absolutely.<br><br></div><div>Spencer: You know, it's quite interesting. So I think I think the advice hasn't really changed. If you want to become more valuable in society, you need to basically invest some time in developing yourself.<br><br></div><div>Jenny: Do you have any preferred sources of information that you go to like your go-to places to keep on top of things?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Spencer: Do you know, when I had the agency is very different to where I am now. When I had the agency, I was you know, the term ‘Maven’, I would look for a Maven so I would look for people who I read Malcolm Gladwell's ‘Tipping Point’. And in that book he talked about how things go viral, and there’s a Maven at the beginning, someone who kind of knows about the future or is an evangelist for a certain trend. And then you get connectors and sales people down there who spread the word. But I used to follow certain Mavens around certain areas. So who are the people that are talking about what's next. For example, I would probably, again I'm going to do a bit of a Marmite thing with everyone now. Half of me would watch Gary Vaynerchuk because he's going to tell you about the next and future. Whether you love him or hate him, you still gonna watch him and listen. The other half of me would be watching Mr Mark Ritson because I want to know what is the now? What should I be doing strategically? Because the smart money is knowing where the now, next and future are. So I would bring the two of those together and go, I'm listening to you guys. And, you know what, I do listen to those guys now. So when I have my business, I was used to follow, because I was in sports marketing I would look out often stalk the bigger, more successful sports agencies. Bigger, more successful sports brands, individual thought leaders and futurists in those areas. And so I would always look to get some intuition around where things were going. So I’d probably look at, you know, you look at my clients. If I was people listening now, I’d look at my clients. I’d find the thought leaders in that space, I would follow them. I would probably look at the services we sell and I’d probably tune into who's doing the best now, and who's moving forwards. It doesn't take a rocket scientist right to look at Agency World now, and I know Stephen Bartlett recently left Social Change. But like he’s an agency owner, his agency's grown from 0 to 800 staff in four years. Well, there's something going on there, and he just happens to be an agency owner who is an influencer. So his personal brand, his thought leadership and the same with Vaynerchuk, Vayner Media, they've grown really quickly over a very short period of time because of the way that they've acted in terms of their personal brand. So yes, I would just tune into the experts it’s quite hard because there's so much information out there now. But certainly there's a lot of very good podcasts, I think McKinsey do a really good podcast talking about future of industry. So find things that really focus on now, next, the future of where you're focusing from a services and from a sector perspective, that's what my advice would be.<br><br></div><div>Jenny: Really amazing, brilliant advice. I usually say to people also look at all of the management consultancy websites because they have the resources and the power, the money behind them to do these studies, and you've only gotta be ahead of the curve a little bit. Do a few readings of you know, some of the reports coming out around, just as you say the client's industry, your sector, to be one step ahead. So that's brilliant advice. What else are you seeing trends-wise like, particularly, there’s two questions really. One, who aree the agencies or what are they doing differently that are putting them at the sort of cutting edge, maybe apart from building their personal brands? Is there anything else that they're doing differently?<br><br></div><div>Spencer: I think the big shift is probably organisational transformation in agencies, I think Covid has been an accelerator in many ways for obviously the way the flexible first approach to working this what we call agile distributed model where maybe agencies now are able to attract a more diverse talent pool from a wider base. Because you don't have to worry about, you know everyone hopefully work to a certain degree via video tools. I think we'll get a little bit worn down within, probably craving a little bit more social face to face interaction. Now I'm saying that now I have been really quite happy, even I am feeling this week a little bit like I could just do it going out with a group of people, more than 30 and having a good time out. So I think the organisation transformation. So what I mean by that is I think the big shift is, is seeing less hierarchies of businesses. I'm seeing more flat, meritocratic structures, more grown up approaches inside businesses, you know, less bosses and management and reporting lines and more people being trusted to do their job. I'm seeing people being more open and transparent around the numbers, the communication, you know, there's more experimentation in agencies more willing to test and try new things. And I think I'm seeing sort of a bit of a movement I think around the organisational structure piece. I think that's the first thing, by the way there's nothing new to this. I mean, when we wrote our book, you know, which came out two years ago and, you know, probably wrote the section three or four years ago, there's a good few global agencies where they have this hybrid model of a core team and maybe a freelancer extended team. So I'm seeing some definite and trends around that, and I've seen some trends around, I won't namecheck people here, but one client of mine in particular who you know, was in a pitch against two traditional agencies. And this is an agency that only has one employee, which is the managing director, the whole team is consultants, experts in this particular field, and they got chosen as the agency of choice for a FTSE 100 company because they preferred the model of saying, look, you only bring in the talent when we need it. You bring in higher quality talent rather than, but you see 10 years ago I lost, I remember I was talking to a big a FTSE 250 organisation who crucified me because I had a contractor in and they saw on LinkedIn that they weren't working for me. So it's again, so there's another trend. I think the clients are maturing. The clients are going to be working more remotely. I think that means a better distribution of wealth around the UK. I think we'll start to see people who are choosing agencies near where they live rather than nearer the central London office. So it's definitely something. I mean, when people say about people giving up offices, I still say it's fairly split. I think around half of people have considered giving up the office and another half are like no, we still need somewhere to meet and still need somewhere to forge our culture of people. So what other the trends am I seeing at the moment?&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Jenny: Do you think that the people being made redundant, because obviously we're heading towards the end of the furlough period for those in agencies that are gonna, unfortunately be made redundant. Do you see a trend for them setting themselves up as consultants or freelancers?<br><br></div><div>Spencer: Yeah. I mean the problem, the problem we've got in the economy right now, you have this thing called IR35 which is very annoying. Which means that basically, if you're self employed, you can't work for just one person without the company having to pay your taxes. And so as a self employed contractor yeah, you've gotta have multiple employers and, you know, they were gonna put the change the law earlier this year they didn't do it. And so it needs modernising definitely to protect people from being exploited, you know, it is not a bad thing why it's being delayed and taking time. So yes, I think inevitably, when there's a lot of redundancies people will like I did when I was made redundant. They use the time to try and start to work for themselves and do things. I definitely think so. I'm going to make a bit of a blanket statement here, which is from what I've seen most of the people that have been made redundant because they haven't moved with the times or there's a carrot, or they genuinely were affected by travel by, because it's only about four or five sectors that have really been hit. I wanna be really clear about this. 99% of sectors in the country are actually doing okay. They're not booming, but some of them are booming like SAS. But there is only really a handful of sectors that are struggling. But some agencies just unluckily had everyone in that space. But apart from that, last night, there was a post. A good friend of mine works in user experience, and someone asked for some user experience people, and I put the name of a friend of mine who's just been made redundant. And that post must have had, like, 60 names on it by the morning and it just goes to show how user experience has become more commoditised. And so it's almost like you've got to keep going up this value chain. But what I would say is I have not seen many people who are working quite strongly in technology in a sector that hasn't been hit by travel or high street retail that isn't very secure in their jobs. So I would say people who are being made redundant do take a good long look at what you're doing where your role is and do you need to progress it now to another area which is more future proofed.<br><br></div><div>Jenny: I think it's a really, really good of advice. I'm just conscious of your time we're coming up to the hour, can you believe it? It's been so… I could talk to you all day, Spencer. Can you tell us what projects are you working on right now? What's exciting you?<br><br></div><div>Spencer: So I've got a couple of really big announcements coming up, we’re doing a couple of partnerships, which is really exciting for me. I think the main thing is we're working on building our training library for agency owners, which I'm hoping to tap you up for some account client service training in there as well. So very much that's been something I'm working on now for a couple of years. It's been taken awhile because we're so busy to try and get them, but we are getting there. So the training stuff’s really exciting for us. We've just launched the masterminds workshops, which has been almost the first time we've been able to offer people maybe a low cost access to us because obviously being non- execs, you end up being a premiums or day rate. But this is a way to make us more accessible by people with smaller budgets but still get access to our tool kits, which we've developed over the last nine years. I'm loving it and it's just really building, we're building a team around the country. We've just taken on someone for the Northwest. I think we were travelling in the early days everywhere and now we're realising that actually there are better people in the regions that could do these things for us. So that's been exciting. And the communities, you mentioned the beginning, you know, we're on our way to 800 members now. Very, very close. And the engagement? The statistics have been just honestly, so good. I mean, the engagement rates are so high. I think we score excellent in every single rating in the analytics on the platform, which is really nice. And as you said at the beginning, which I'm a little bit shocked too everyone so nice in there, and it's weird because it's free you’d think you'd get all in the kind of trouble makers in there? Totally weirdly, I think I may be Covid, maybe people have got more humility. Maybe through this period.<br><br></div><div>Jenny: It would really stand out if anyone wasn't nice, wouldn't it? It would be like, oh, no, that's not what we do around here.<br><br></div><div>Spencer: When the person does something you’re like, alright..<br><br></div><div>Spencer: We've got a good few announcements coming up, new partnerships coming in, which I think will be really exciting as well. So you know, all good. All progressing really nicely. All good fun.<br><br></div><div>Jenny: So who would you like to hear from? Because obviously some people might be listening to this thinking, oh, I didn't know he did consultancy. I didn't know there was a community. What's the best way of contacting you and who’d really benefit from contacting you the most?<br><br></div><div>Spencer: I think if you are an agency owner or a shareholder on Companies House, you know, with more than a team of three, because I'm trying to avoid having freelancers in the community because it will just become, because we do on our spare time, it's all run for free. So if you’ve got more than 3 people, then please, or if your boss is that person or, you know, you're whatever you know someone who owns an agency, please point them in direction of Agencynomics.com. And you know, if you're that person, come in there and come along to an event and say hi to me. I think the best thing with me now these days is if you can is try and see where I'm talking, come along, listen and ask questions and then maybe we'll try and talk through there. And yeah, I think you know I'm on LinkedIn. If you want to connect to me, please send me a personal message and you'll need my email address, which is spg@cact.us&nbsp; But please send me a message because I only accept people now who kind of give me a bit of a back story in connecting. And year, I mean, you know that LinkedIn’s probably the best way to get hold of me.&nbsp; Just check out cactus.com website. There's an enquiry form on there. If you know anyone that might want to work with us at some stage point them in that direction. That's a shameless plug, I’m not normally that salesy normally.<br><br></div><div>Jenny: No, you're not being salesy, Spencer. You're probably one of the most generous and well networked people I know. Really, because you help everyone and to put your email address and the contact. I just think you'd be foolish not to if you’re out there on your own agency owner not to take part because there's just so much benefit. You're getting posts tagging you.<br><br></div><div>Spencer: I was saying to James earlier, the problem is, is that, as I said, the beginning at the moment, I've got a couple of big agencies who are selling it to their team, so different types of ways of selling businesses, and actually that takes a lot of time up. Sometimes I feel a bit like I want to make myself accessible but eventually it gets a bit hard so they'd be too offended if you want to have a video call with me and you gotta wait a couple of months, but it will come around quick enough so book it in. You know, that's what I say.<br><br></div><div>Jenny: Absolutely. And just as I said, there's not a day that goes by without someone saying thank you to you. So you are changing lives genuinely through your work, so you must be really, really proud of that. And I just want to say a huge thank you.<br><br></div><div>Spencer: They say don't they your brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room, and I think it probably applies to your personal brand too, so and it's only really been last few months where I’ve started to hear people saying nicer things. It is quite embarrassing in a way. But it's, you know, I'm grateful for the people that take time to say thank you. If I've helped with people I've helped in any way or any of the guys at Cactus and I would say, you know, it's another good lesson, really. If anyone helps you on your journey out there, have a little think. And don't be afraid to say thank you to them. You know, it's just a really nice thing. And people would take a lot from it if you do, to make the time to thank people that helped you on your journey.<br><br></div><div>Jenny: Totally agree and very well deserved. Thank you so much for joining me, Spencer. I really, really appreciate it. Big thank you.<br><br></div><div><strong>I really hope you enjoyed my chat with Spencer. I know that I got a lot of value from it and took down loads of notes, so I hope you've done the same. And if you're interested in joining the Agencynomics community then come along to community.agencynomics.com. It's a thriving community of agency owners. The only prerequisite is that you are an agency owner with three employees and it is a fantastic place to be. Lots of networking, lots of training, lots of advice and it's completely free, so I look forward to seeing you there.<br></strong><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2020 13:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/98n94vjw.mp3" length="56054512" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/baef96d0-0e20-11eb-bcf5-79ddaf618172/baefa290-0e20-11eb-9c9c-7f0549e82b29.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2802</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode I'm delighted to have as my guest Spencer Gallagher who took time out of working on the second edition of his best selling book, Agencynomics, which he co-wrote with his partner Peter Hoole, to share his thoughts on agency leadership and client management. 

Having built and sold his own agency in 2008, he now runs the UK's leading growth consultancy for agency owners, Cact.us and is co-founder of the Cact.us Academy, a training portal for agency owners.

He also heads up the not for profit global community of agency owners, also called Agencynomics and co-hosts the vodcast Agencyphonics where he interviews owners and thought leaders about growing an agency business.

In this episode we cover everything from what he thinks is most important when leading an agency and how he approaches agency growth, to the biggest agency trends he's seeing and how to stay up to date and relevant in this time of digital transformation. 

We cover:

* Key habits of highly effective agency leaders
* What successful agency leaders are doing now to accelerate their agency's growth
* What Spencer would do differently if he was starting an agency again
* Key trends in the agency landscape
* Why you need to keep learning to keep yourself relevant
* Why agencies need to start thinking beyond social media and websites to supporting clients with their digital transformation..


...and lots more nuggets you'll want to hear if you're an owner, leader or account manager.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>In this episode I'm delighted to have as my guest Spencer Gallagher who took time out of working on the second edition of his best selling book, Agencynomics, which he co-wrote with his partner Peter Hoole, to share his thoughts on agency leadership and client management. 

Having built and sold his own agency in 2008, he now runs the UK's leading growth consultancy for agency owners, Cact.us and is co-founder of the Cact.us Academy, a training portal for agency owners.

He also heads up the not for profit global community of agency owners, also called Agencynomics and co-hosts the vodcast Agencyphonics where he interviews owners and thought leaders about growing an agency business.

In this episode we cover everything from what he thinks is most important when leading an agency and how he approaches agency growth, to the biggest agency trends he's seeing and how to stay up to date and relevant in this time of digital transformation. 

We cover:

* Key habits of highly effective agency leaders
* What successful agency leaders are doing now to accelerate their agency's growth
* What Spencer would do differently if he was starting an agency again
* Key trends in the agency landscape
* Why you need to keep learning to keep yourself relevant
* Why agencies need to start thinking beyond social media and websites to supporting clients with their digital transformation..


...and lots more nuggets you'll want to hear if you're an owner, leader or account manager.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords/>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>The fundamentals of successful client management, with Carey Evans &amp; Simon Rhind-Tutt</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/0njj5ymn</link>
      <itunes:title>The fundamentals of successful client management, with Carey Evans &amp; Simon Rhind-Tutt</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>6</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">40pn9q30</guid>
      <description>Today's episode is with the founders of Relationship Audits and Management, Carey Evans and Simon Rhind-Tutt.

They are invited in by creative agency leaders and client services directors to assess the strength of their client relationships and provide recommendations and guidance for how to retain and grow the accounts.

In this episode they share tip after tip from years of experience talking to agency clients about what they want most from their agencies.

They remind us of many of the fundamental principles of account management having spoken to hundreds of clients and having built up years of benchmarking data from client interviews about what works and doesn't work when it comes to successful agency client relationships.

In this episode you'll hear:

* Why becoming the go to person within your agency for a chosen topic can accelerate your career
* The winning agency formula for any pitch
* What clients say 64% of agencies never do but should
* How you can make your client's life easier
* The average % time clients have to spend of their day liaising with all their agencies
* How to create instant rapport with your client
* A method we can borrow from professional services firms for how to get to know your client's business quickly
* Five of the biggest trends they are seeing about what clients want most from their agencies right now.....

....and lots more valuable tips and reminders for how to make sure you excel in your account management role.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:<br></strong><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> <strong>Welcome to the Creative Agency Account Manager Podcast with me, Jenny Plant, from Account Management Skills Training. I'm on a mission to help those in agency client service keep and grow the existing relationships, so their agency business can thrive.<br></strong><br></div><div>Welcome to Episode six and this episode I'm thrilled to have two guests, Carey Evans and Simon Rhind-Tutt from <a href="https://www.relationshipaudits.com/">Relationship Audits</a>. Now, I first met these guys in 2008 when I invited them into Publicis to audit one of the relationships that we had. It was probably one of the biggest at the time and what they unravelled for us and what they revealed on the golden nuggets they shared on having audited the relationship really helped us keep hold of that client relationship for another two years. And each year that client was worth on average about £700,000. So they added for us £1.4 million. So the value that they gave to my agency was astounding. Now, when I left Publicis in 2010 I actually went to work with them for a little while as a freelancer. So I was so convinced by what they did with our relationship that I started working for them for a little while and they really are phenomenal. They have a huge amount of benchmark data across several industries, and they have a question set which is really established. So they have some predictability around how much information that they can glean about your clients, that your clients might not be sharing with you. And in fact, that's what I found was the beauty of choosing an external third party to come and audit a relationship, because I actually felt a little bit strange about allowing a third party to come and talk to my clients. I felt a little bit exposed, but actually it was so worth it. The exercise really, really helped us. So the reason I've invited them this morning because I know that they have a huge amount of experience and are going to share so many golden nuggets with you. They're going to share things like tips for being seen as a client's trusted advisor, how you could build rapport with your client, the surprising average amount of time a client spends on liaising with all of their agencies - I think you're going to find this quite surprising - and how to ensure for you that you make the time they spend with you count. What 63% of clients say agencies never do but really, really should, what puts clients off agencies, they're gonna share some examples and why you need to make your client not only feel valued but special. That is just the tip of the iceberg. They share so many golden nuggets. So many tips for you. Grab a pen, take some notes and I hope you come away with some value. Enjoy.<br><br></div><div>So thank you so much again Carey and Simon for joining me today. Do you mind spending a couple of minutes just talking about yourselves, your experience and also what Relationship Audits does?<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon:</strong> My name's Simon Rhind-Tutt. I founded the company along with Carey probably about 20 years ago. My background is in account management work with three very large international advertising agencies, then I went into the world of design and branding and was new business director at what was then the largest independent design agency in the world, and then started my own agency, which I sold after three or four years before Carey and I set up Relationship Audits.<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey:</strong> Well, as you see, I'm Carey Evans and, like Simon, I’ve got a background in marketing services. My background is entirely in account management in large international ad agencies across lots of different kinds of business there and spent quite a lot of time in my last agency and the one before that, involved in building business from existing clients. So, Simon and I both share a passion for great account management and really preach to anybody who'll listen about what good account managers can do for themselves, for their clients and for their agency. So hopefully we'll be able to drop a few nuggets of what experience has shown us works and maybe what doesn’t work.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> I'm absolutely convinced that you will. I mean, you are my go-to people for you know what's new into the agency world what clients are saying right now. And so I know that this is going to be a really valuable discussion. Obviously, we met when I asked you to come in and audit one of our biggest client accounts. And a bit like Victor Khyam, I was so impressed with what you did I ended up where I left Publicis coming to work for you for a little while because I was just so blown away by the value that you brought and the difference that you made. So do you mind just before we get into a little bit more about account management and agencies in general just telling us a little bit about the different ways that you work specifically with creative agencies?<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon:</strong> Carey, you want to lead?<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey:</strong> Well, I think basically our role with creative agencies is to help them better understand what's working and what's not working with their clients. In fact, the clients are the be all and end all for any agency. They are in fact, they are relationship capital. If that's in a good place, then the agency’s in a good place. So what we do is we either speak to agency's clients, or we connect with them via email and online surveys to find out exactly how the agency is doing. What it’s doing right, what it could be doing better and any opportunities going forward to grow the business. That's the bread and butter of what we do. The other thing that we do really is about, if you like, enhancing the relationship capital within the agency by offering various different training modules that experience has shown us helps prepare account managers to be of a more valuable asset to their client opposite numbers.<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon:</strong> Yeah, I think I'd add to this that we are an independent third party and one of the benefits and one of the reasons why agencies use us is that because we're talking to clients, almost 24/7 We’d like to think we know the questions to ask, would like to think that we can interpret what clients say what they mean, but also coming back with action plans in terms of what the agency should actually do. Having said all of that, one of the tips that we would give you is to constantly be asking yourselves for specific feedback when a project is finished. One of the mistakes that we believe that most agencies make is not holding wash ups or post product reviews. It's really, really important to solicit ongoing feedback from clients, even if you know the answer is not always gonna be glowing.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> That's a really fantastic point. Before we move on and just picking up on a couple of things that you've said, you talked about this relationship capital and one of the things I sort of discovered working with you that for agency leaders as well, you're very instrumental in an acquisition process. When you go in and agency leaders ask you to evaluate the strength of the relationships, perhaps of an agency they're thinking of acquiring. And, I hadn't realised before we started working when I was at Publicis, that you did that. And another thing that came up for me many times when I was working for you was this amount of interest in your benchmarking data. Because you've been in the market for so long, you'd be doing the services you've done for so long agencies were also able to benc mark how well they're doing with their client relationships versus others.<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey:</strong> Yeah, I mean, I think that the benchmarking thing has grown in&nbsp; importance over the years, and everybody now wants to know not just how they're doing, but how they're doing against other people in their space. The other thing that we were able to do just related to that, slightly different is that we don't just work our agencies. We work for clients we’re commissioned by clients as well as agencies within marking services, but we also work outside of the sector, we work for professional services companies. And we work for law firms and accountants and people like that and what that does is it gives us a completely different perspective on a way of delivering a service. And what we talk about is our kind of helicopter learning that will allow a lot of agencies to compare what they're doing with what's being done in other service industries. And that's always a useful eye opener. Simon, do you wanna talk about relationship diligence?<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon: </strong>Yeah, I mean, we call it relationship diligence and to Jeny’s point it is used very successfully by people that wish to acquire an agency, but really wish to actually check out the quality of the relationships that they're buying. And a lot of our clients insist that this is part of the M&amp;A process.&nbsp; We generally are engaged at heads of agreements stage, so when the deal is actually nearly done. But it does provide great insight and insight is the key word in terms of everything that we at Relationship Audits give. It gives an insight into the quality of the client relationships that an acquirer is actually buying and, indeed, the opportunities that actually may exist or some problems that actually need to be fixed. What we do is not all about finding problems. It's about identifying best practise and, generally, the larger the agency, the less communication between one part of the agency and the other on. There could be one account team knocking it out of the park for very specific reasons that the rest of the agency actually don't know about. So part of our role is to identify what's working well and to help the agency actually share that.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Amazing. I mean, what other value do you find that clients tell you it brings for them doing on audits of this type and agencies on both sides of<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey:</strong> As I said is that we gather intelligence in two ways. As I said either via an online assessment programme or by undertaking interviews and one of the things that never ceases to amaze me about when we do interviews is how many clients say, at the end of the kind of 40 minute session ‘wow, you really made me think about the relationship in a way I haven't thought about previously’, which is very good, because usually what it does is it opens their eyes into some of the challenges that the agency faces in being able to deliver what they want. And that's why, for example, one of things that we do, we typically for large corporates we insist that if they want to do an evaluation of their agencies, we insist that has done in two ways. Because you can't really criticise an agency for not delivering. Let's say you criticise them for the quality of the strategy or the quality of the creative work or whatever it is if your own briefs and your briefing as a company is hopeless. So you know, in all this kind of stuff, there's a sort of there's a ying and a yang and the great thing is that it makes a statement, undertaking this kind of exercise, makes a statement by the agency on how seriously and how important they think their client relationships are.<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon:</strong> And just to build on that question, Jenny, we're very, very lucky to have dozens, if not hundreds of positive comments back from our clients, and they can be found on the website. But I think two of our favourite ones is one of our clients for a very large ad agency said to us Relationship Audits tell me 90% of what I know, but it's the 10% that I don't know that is the most commercially valuable. There is another health care agency where the chief executive said about working with us, that there is a conversation going on in our client's office at the moment that we're not part of. What Relationship Audits helps us do is to get us into that conversation. And I think that's particularly important because the one thing that you can guarantee about any business relationship, not just a creative relationship, any business relationship is things are changing now at a rapid, rapid pace and, I suppose one of the frustrations that we see and this is another tip to the people listening, is that certainly one Carey and I started in the business in the days when I had a full head of hair and Carey wasn't grey…..<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey:</strong> I'll have, you know, fashionably grey..<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon: </strong>..that clients were very free to share information about their business. And there was very often a really true partnership between the agency and the client for various reasons that will take too long to go into. Now that isn't quite the same and clients expect their agencies and their key suppliers to know about their business. The reality of that is that they expect their agency to be inquisitive and interested in their business. And one needs to be continually asking the client about the business, how it's changing. And let's face it, anybody that's actually working with you, you're going to favour somebody that is generally interested. And one of the tips we would give is if you work for a client that is a large public company, they will publish an annual report. And we would urge you if you haven't seen their latest annual report to actually go and read it, because one of the things in the report will be the chairman's statement, and the chairman's statement will talk about the issues facing the business and what their key challenges are going forward. I think most agencies aspire to get more upstream and to get access to senior management. And I think one of the other tips that we would give you as part of this is the ability to make your client a star in their own organisation will actually reflect very well on that client internally as well as the agency. So from the annual report, if you can identify initiatives and proactivity that the agency can engage in, it's very likely that that piece of pro activity and initiative will take you and indeed, your client further upstream.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny</strong>: It's a great piece of advice. Carey, did you want to build on that?<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey:</strong> Yeah, I just wanted to add something, something very simple, that I would encourage all account managers to do and this is particularly true of this environment but it is true generally, given in this environment, but there’s a lot of certainty going on. Will people go back to the office? If so, when, what it's gonna be like and so a lot of uncertainty, right? So take nothing for granted is my observation here and it's astonishing we've done some research when we go and talk to people when we wanna talk to clients on behalf of an agency. The first question we asked them is what their expectations are of the agency now. What is really interesting is that currently is something like 63 or 64% of clients claim that their agency has never asked them about their expectations of the agency, which is not setting off on the right foot, really. And if you do know what your client's expectations are, it's a damn sight easier to deliver them and beat them, as opposed to simply assuming you know what they are on that is emphasised even further when you've got an existing relationship and your client leaves on a new client joins and you assume that they're gonna want everything in the same size, the same job, the same package, same colour, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Of course they're not. Yeah, so ask your client what their expectations of you are as an agency, it'll do you a power of good.<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon</strong>: Can I had one further tip?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Please do!<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon:</strong> I mean, this is really not rocket science, but to actually make sure that you're on a daily Google updates of any news about your clients and their competitors because that way you stay upt to speed very quickly. And if your client has on their Website a newsroom that you can subscribe to that will keep you updated with company news that is an easy win. Coming back to keeping up to date with what's happening at your client's competitors, that potentially is news you can actually take to your clients because a lot of your clients won't be doing that.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> I think these are all fantastic tips because many of the agencies I meet and particularly account managers ask me, how can they be seen to be more respected by their clients? How can they be seen more as trusted advisors? And actually, all of those tips are so relevant because if you look, smell, feel like a sales person, that's just trying to sell more of your stuff. You're not gonna be perceived by the client as adding value as an advisor, but all of the things you're describing are really,&nbsp; I call it level four activity, which is really adding future value, you know, look at what we're seeing in the market. Look at this trend that's happening.<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon:</strong> Jenny, can I just add one other point? Because I think there will be a lot of account managers listening to this and, Carey, I was just gonna ask you to talk about your experience at Y and R when you were given the opportunity to actually something?<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey:</strong> Oh, yes when I joined Young and Rubicam as a trainee sometime ago. Now, in fact, anyway, and the piece of advice I was given there by a guy I used to work for was fantastic and it was very simple. He said to me, become a specialist in something that nobody else is as up to speed with as you. So I was put on, I don't know why they put me on a beer account, but they did so, I got to work on a beer account as one of my first pieces of business. Life was tough, but I had to do it, and I decided that I was going to become the specialist. I was gonna become the resident expert in the team on competitive advertising. So who was spending, where they were spending, what the ads were and so on and so forth. And that was a great piece of advice, which I would pass onto any anybody. Even if you feel as though you’re the bottom end of the team, if you could be seen to be somebody whose&nbsp; ‘opinion’ is asked after, it will do you a power of good and it will improve your profile in the agency and it will help you develop.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Do you know what that is such a good piece of advice. Because many account managers say to me, I need to be more strategic and obviously, it's difficult when you're working across several brands and several clients to really get down as far in the weeds with the strategy as the strategists do or the subject matter experts. So that's like another alternative to becoming more of a strategic input, isn't it? Choose one particular aspect of the business and to choose a competitor or the competition it also is so attractive for the client, isn't it as well as internally?<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon:</strong> Absolutely, and I know we’re only on question one or two but just another tip is that particularly the large corporates have writing and communication styles. So, for example, there's one retailer that we know that only will have internal communication on PowerPoint and use bullet points, etc. But if you're writing something to be sent to the client, understand what their internal communication method is and how they like to receive it, and indeed, how their bosses like to receive it and then write it in that style. Because that way it's easier for them to actually forward on, and they haven't got to cut and paste.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> That is such a good point, Simon, because again, a lot of the people I'm working with are having to present a piece of information because there's about six or seven buyers, actually, or decision makers on the client side that usually have to have an input. We talk about presenting the business case, so if you write the business case in the format that is most conducive to how they work, that's such a perfect point.<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon:</strong> Actually I suppose there is a bigger point that the more you can make your client's life easier, the more you could be seen as easy to work with. The more they want to actually work with you and that starts with attention to detail and getting things right first time.<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey:</strong> And that I can't emphasise enough how important that is. And people think, oh, yeah but obviously I’ll get the detail right? Once you don't get the detail right more than once, you know when you get into its second time and you got the details wrong that sends alarm bells ringing, alarm bells ringing in your colleagues heads that you haven't got the right of the level of detail consciousness. And that's crucial. And one other thing I would say to Jenny, which is, you know, you talked about people wanting ‘more strategic’. Let's not forget there's a process of development goes on in account managers career and development and one of the things that they need to be as the first stage is they need to be a bloody safe pair of hands, right? So they've got to be on top of the detail. They got to be on top of what's going on, they’ve gotta be on top of the timings. Because that builds a kind of level of trust within their peers and within their clients that allows them to move up to the next stage. So it's not about coming in and wanting to be the top of the tree. In terms of strategic contributor, you've gotta actually earn your corn. Gotta learn the business from the ground up. And if you are doing it, if you become a specialist and do all this kind of stuff, then your journey will be quicker.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Absolutely, 100%. I absolutely agree with you. There will be agency maybe client services directors listening to this thinking, this all sounds fantastic and I love what they're saying about, you know, Simon, you said about getting specific feedback on a regular basis, but make sure you put the wash up meetings in place so that clients have that forum to give you the feedback on a regular basis. And they might be thinking, well, we kind of do that. We do that on a yearly basis, or I asked the clients how they're doing, I know the answer to this because I've experienced it several times before, but what would you say to agencies the difference really is between getting an external third party in to evaluate your client relationships and doing it yourself.<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon:</strong> I think doing it yourself is an ongoing process and the more often you ask, the easier it will be to actually ask. It's interesting because people that come to us, and we really wish it wasn't the case, but probably in about 75% of the cases, they come to us with the specific problem or they've lost a number of clients. Or as one guy said, my antenna is going wobbly and I really don't know why but I kind of sense there is a problem. People would only use us in terms of online. We always say no more than twice a year in terms of what we call Deep Dive, talking to clients directly. You'd only do that on a once a year basis. One of the benefits of using somebody like us is that we can cover all of the clients in the agency so we can have a helicopter view of all the client relationships within a particular business. But I come back to the point I mentioned earlier about being interested, keen, eager to learn. Eager to learn about the client's business but is also being open and really wanting to actually listen to how well the agency is actually doing.<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey:</strong> The other day, right, I was getting briefed. I had to do some interviews for an agency, and the person who briefed me, because we all get briefed on the individuals before we go and talk them. One of the things that I said to this person was tell me a little bit about so and so's background, you know? What is he like? Is he married? Has he got kids, what does he like doing? And the response was, Oh, I don't know him. I don't know really. Well. I know he's married. I think he's married. I'm not. I don't know what he likes, and I was astonished by that, because if you want to be really successful as an account manager, it really helps if you've got a good relationship with your client. One of the ways of creating a good relationship is building what we call bridges of rapport finding out common points of interest. So when we meet new people there’s a series of questions that we just bang out to find out, you know, just being sociable. But it builds as a reservoir or criteria that we can fix on when we have a conversation, maybe we haven’t had a conversation for a while be can, Simon, for example, is getting treatment for it now but he supports Fulham. So if he picks up, you know, in conversation that somebody's a football fan or soccer fan whenever that's a natural entry point for him to talk about his woes.<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon:</strong> Indeed, but I would always check out who they played at the weekend, how they got on and actually who the next game is. And you know, I come across as interested, although I need therapy. But, you know, I’ll just tell another story that's related to this. I went to do an interview with one of the big rail companies last year and it was with not a marketing director was with a marketing manager and I said to her one of the questions we will ask, which is do you feel like a valued client? And she said, Well, yes, I kind of do, but that's not the question you should be asking. So I said what’s that, she said, Well, um, you know, I feel valued because we spend a lot of money with this agency and you know, I get to see the chief executive every now and again, but you should be asking me, do I feel special and what she meant by that is, are the people that we work with at the agency, Iis the agency interested in me or really are they're just interested in the money?<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey:</strong> I had exactly the same thing said to me about two weeks ago by somebody in Pharma who said, I'm interested to understand where the value is, am I the thing that’s valued, or is it my business that’s valued?<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> And tell us a bit more about why they drew that conclusion, that they were even questioning it. Did they feel that they client or the agency weren't interested enough in them as an individual? Did they get the impression that the agency was more interested in the business?<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon:</strong> So any first conversation about a new project, and this came up the week before last with a very large I suppose, pharma company and they said, you know, we have a conversation with the agency, and the first thing they want to know is, what's the budget rather than what's the brief? Now I know that the account managers listening to this, their account directors or the chief executives will be interested in what the budget is, but you've kind of got to start at ground one. And ground one is being interested in them and their business and their job. And number two is about understanding what the business problem and the strategic problem is. You know, one of the things we mentioned earlier about learning from professional services firms, one of the things that they're very good at doing is creating what they call secondees and the equivalent would be an account manager going to work at the client for two or three months, maybe even longer, but actually understanding, really, what goes on in clients’ offices. The conversations that go on, we often ask in those days when we did training&nbsp; seminars on a face to face basis. What proportion of time does a marketing manager on average in their working week spend working with all of their agencies? And the answer is typically are anywhere between 30% and 70%. The reality is it's about 7%. Okay, because a lot of agencies, people working in agencies, don't really understand what their clients do during the day. So if you can't go in and shadow a client, and particularly at the moment this is very, very difficult, just say, look, could we put a diary session in for just half an hour, have a coffee? Whenever is convenient to you? Can we just understand what you do during the week and the other things and the other challenges? If there any agency chief executives here or heads of client service, get one or two clients, have a webinar and you interview them about their working week and let certainly account management, certainly strategy and frankly, creative and everybody else listen, because it's not what you may think it is. And of course, the more you can understand about the clients and the individuals and how they work and the challenges they face, the better client service will be. If I could summarise that it's be interested and be interesting. So when I have my brand design agency and I went to new business pitches, I always had three interesting things to actually ask them, which were born from research that I’d done on. Basically, my strategy was greeted in reception, taken by the client into the meeting room, setting up the presentation if I have three interesting questions that show an understanding of their business and their challenges, I know I'm almost into their comfort zone before we even start. But that's not just for new business client’s, it's for your existing clients.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> So I mean, this is so powerful. I mean what you've just said that clients, on average, have 7% of their time to focus on all of their agency relationships, so that presents the case for each agency interaction, every time we're in front of the client, we gotta make it count, haven’t we? And what you just described there was a classic example of someone who's prepared and probably rehearsed before they showed up. And it's something that I talked to agency account managers about and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, because I get sometimes pushback on the fact that everyone's so busy, you know, delivering projects that when you do need to make your interaction with a client matter, that there is that lack of preparation sometimes so you're not performing. It’s like a&nbsp; performance, isn't it? What do you think?<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon:</strong> Absolutely. And Cary and I work together at one of those days. I worked with an account director who was an actor and what he made me do and this had stayed with me ever since he made me prepare for phone calls in the same ways we prepare for a big set piece meeting so there would be an agenda for the phone call. But he would ask that, or he would insist that I’d always prep likely questions to actually come out so that I've actually got the answers. Obviously that doesn't cover you for everything but the impression is that it's a well run conversation, and actually, the result is that you actually save time because there's no going backwards and forwards if you've actually thought it through. My own personal view is that what we've seen since Covid broke is lots of video meetings. Those video meetings are an opportunity to actually create an impression even more than a phone call. But the meeting rooms got to be honest. The backgrounds gotta be dressed. You've got to be prepared, and you've got to take it as seriously as you would if a client was coming into your office or you were going to the clients’ office.<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey:</strong> Just to build on that Jenny, if I may, I think there's another thing which is about, you know, however prepared you are, and I absolutely, you know, there's no excuse for it really because if you think about it, you know, you may often wish that you'd rehearsed or prepared more, but you'll never wish you'd done so less. But there are gonna be times when you're not going to know an answer to something. And the worst thing you could do is bullshit. You don't know, be honest and say I don't know, but I will find out and I will come back to you whenever because again, it's transparent. And if you make it up and you get caught again in the future, your relationship is shot.<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon</strong>: And actually building on that one of the things, and I think it's within the people that go into the marketing services industry, we want to please our clients. We want them to be happy. And the easiest thing to do is to, frankly, over promise. I know Carey always used to talk about the example of Marks and Spencer furniture that they would say it's gonna take 14 days and it got to him in 10 days. You're really delighted that that's the case and this is a really, really, really important point that if you commit to a timeline, your client would have committed to a timeline internally, and there will be very often numerous other people that are kind of relying on that chain of events to actually happen. If you don't meet that timeline, you let the agency down. You let your client down, but you know you also let yourself down very badly.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Such spot on points, absolutely. Just stepping back to the rehearsing point and the preparation point. One of the things I hear agency account directors say is they'll go to a meeting with the client unprepared with other members of the team, the agency team. And maybe you've got someone that's more senior from the agency there, and they kind of take over. So the account director or account manager is de-positioned. They're sort of in the background taking notes when actually they're supposed to be leading the account, leading the relationship and what happens is the client then sees the agency owner as the one that's got all the answers and therefore, then they carry on phoning the agency owner. So lovely tips that you've shared,&nbsp; what I tell people is have a pre meeting plan, which is a planning template on one page that's really simple to fill in, but it includes who sets up the meeting, who starts a meeting and how they start the meeting. What questions they have prepared to ask the client. What we can expect to receive having some research done are we LinkedIn him with them, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah on. It's just essentially a checklist, and it allows the fact that the account director doesn't come away from that meeting looking like they're making up the numbers.<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon:</strong> But I think it comes down to this is really basically having an agenda, agreeing who has the ownership for the agenda and also agreeing who from, let's say the agency's perspective is going to lead the meeting. You know, one of the tips that we've picked up from the professional services industry, the big law firms, is they will always have somebody leading a meeting. And when one of their colleagues wants to contribute something, what they do is they lean forward now that was in a meeting, so I mean, maybe you could scratch your ear or something like that so that the person that's leading on behalf of the agency knows that Simon wants to actually say something. And that way, the agency comes together as a team. There is a client of a big brewery who said that whenever he sees a pitch, they judge it on the quality of creative, the quality of thinking, probably quality of money but he didn’t talk about that, but also the quality of the team and what he means by the quality of the team, he said have they been put together and really met for the first time on the train up here or actually, are they a team. And the best agency relationships for all sorts of reasons are teams, rather one person that actually takes over.<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey:</strong> Yeah, I think I think it's really important that when you meet it, if there's a gang of you, firstly, don't go to the meeting unless, you know, unless you have a role. That's the first thing I would say. Secondly, if you in the meeting each person, to Simon's point, gotta know what their role is on which part of the meeting on the agenda they own and the other thing&nbsp; that is really important is that people understand when a question comes who will answer that question on a particular topic, you know? So if there's somebody conducting the meeting, then if the questions on money they put it over to Jenny, if the questions on something else, they’ll put it over to Simon and so on, so forth. So that in itself, if you like, creates a sense of expertise amongst the team to contribute as a team and make sure everybody has their part and plays a part.<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon:</strong> Yeah, I think it's not done a lot for a new business pitch is probably as much as it should be. But the same applies to existing client relationships actually prepping and sometimes brainstorming the likely questions that we're actually gonna get back.<br><br></div><div>Carey: So just one story about the team, right? I remember one of my very first pitches when I worked in Y&amp;R and I was put onto the pitching for was then called the Electricity Council, which was pre-privatisation, and we were pitching there and in the room outside the meeting in a kind of anti room, outside the meeting there was a gang of us standing around and the chief exec went up to one of the guys near me and shook his hand and he said, Hello. I'm so and so from the agency and the bloke said Yes, I’m so and so from the agency, I’m the new planner.<br><br></div><div>Jenny: That's a bit too close for comfort. I have been in so many pitches in that situation, similar ones. It's just embarrassing. A couple of things that I want to build on this well, the way you operate together, right?&nbsp; I just want to bring up this point, going back to rehearsing as the team, making sure everyone has a role that one's prepped on. Who's gonna answer the questions? These were all fantastic tips, but the other thing that you're demonstrating, which wasn't apparent to me before I was told, was how you interact as a team in terms of answering questions, because you both you've said, can I add to that point or can I build on that point that essentially makes the other person who said something not looked like they've just, you know, said something silly. But there's some people will say, well, almost interrupt or the way they actually put their point across makes out that the person that's just said something, it's kind of disregarded.<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon:</strong> Yeah, and I think it's ,to get back to a football analogy, this time of the year, the transfer window's open and lots of teams are buying lots of new players, but that doesn't instantly make you a great team because you gotta play together. The reason why Carey and I bounce off each other is because we've known each other for a very, very long time. I kind of know what he's about to say. But that comes from experience on. It's about listening. Is that respecting? And frankly, it's also about feeding people you know, nuggets. One of the pitch tips, if you like, because one of the things that we do is what's called lost pitch audits to actually find out why agencies ‘come second’. Never last. And there was one very famous PR agency that we work with who, whenever they're doing a pitch, they insist that everything is finished before five o'clock the night before and the agency pays for the pitch team to go out for an early dinner the night before the pitch on. There was a tangible improvement in the success rate because coming back to that point, there is a team there, and also, I suspect that if the team are comfortable with each other and they're bouncing off each other, clients feel as well as listen, and you can sense the team that's happy in each other's company.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> It's called chemistry meetings for a reason. It's not only chemistry between the client and the agency, but if the client could feel that the agency isn't a cohesive team, so that's such a good point as well.<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon:</strong> Yeah, to that point, Jenny, again for new business&nbsp; exactly same for existing clients that people are into roles. Our view is that if you're a client service director listening to this, you really need to perform the role of being a casting director. Because at the end of the day, businesses don't buy businesses people by people and you may not necessarily need to be the world's greatest strategic thinker for, let's say, a beer brand. But actually getting on and having the chemistry and people wanting to work with you is very, very important, and there is very little often to separate one agency. And another chemistry is a key, key part.<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey:</strong> Yeah, our experience shows that chemistry is probably the most important part of the decision to appoint. It’s not about the quality of the work on presented on the day. Our view is you typically win the pitch before you get to the final meeting because you created a relationship and the client will typically feel these are the people I want to work with to help me achieve my goals. When you get to that, you're more likely to win even if you don't have the best creative solution and I remember reading a statistic that the statistic of work that is presented at the final pitch meeting and that actually runs is below 20%.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Just goes to show you doesn't it? And you both know and I know having been in multiple pitches throughour lives. You know the pitches, you can tell when they go well, can’t you? Because you just feel it. Yeah. I mean, I know we could go on all day basically, because there's so many stories. I’m very conscious of your time because we’re coming up to the hour. I've taken so many notes. I think you've given so many golden nuggets for agency account managers, directors as well as agency leaders. This has been phenomenal. Is there anything, I'm particularly interested because you're so plugged into the trends that are happening and what clients are talking about and how things are changing, particularly with the Covid situation. We're recording it at the end of September beginning of October of 2020. Is there anything that you're seeing or that you think agencies should be aware of that are changing in the marketplace that either they're not doing that they should be doing, or that you're seeing a trend in what clients are doing differently, anything that you can share that you think might be valuable.<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon:</strong> Okay, we've got separate presentation on this, but just to give you some of the headlines that we're saying, I think clients want more empathy and collaboration from their agencies. They wanted to collaborate more, infinitely more. The acceleration in new technology is a massive issue. As one client said to us the other day, we've changed more in terms of the use of technology in the last 10 weeks than we have in the last 10 years. Clients are seeing disruption in their supply chain, which includes agencies and therefore, they want to have, to come back to this point, trusted advisor type relationships. If you're an account man or on account lady, what you need to do is you need to be embracing data because data has become even more important. And whether or not you teach yourself on YouTube or you get the agency to put you on course is, the more you can understand and interpret data that is going to further your career and clients want to see agencies adding value. Just answering the brief or just doing what we call the hygiene factor really, really isn't enough anymore. And yo try and find pieces of pro activity where you can add value is absolutely huge.<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey:</strong> Yeah, I think that there's another thing to say as well as that, which is that it was a lot of change going on, right that the 10 week thing Simon just talked about, loads of change going on, loads of technology, all that kind of stuff. There's some things that just don't change, and that is about remembering that as an account man that you’ve two of these and got one of these, right, use them in that order. Sorry, two ears and one mouth. Use them in that order. And make sure that, you know active listening is a great skill of an account manager. Demonstrate you're interested. clarify if you don't fully understand, but listening. I can't recommend that, frankly.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> It's not taught, is it? And it should be in schools, the skill of listening. I agree. Listen, this has been phenomenal. I want to respect both of your times. Thank you so much for sharing so many insights and valuable tips and help for account managers. I'm sure I just can't wait to type this all up. Well, I won't be typing it, but my PA will be typing it, and like getting this out to everyone, because I just think it's so valuable. Who would you like to be contacted by? And how can people get hold of you if they'd like to chat to you more about this stuff?<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon:</strong> If anybody has got any questions at all and we can help them in any way, whoever you are. And you're listening to this. Jenny, you've got both Carey and my email addresses. Please as the Americans would say, reach out to us and we'd be delighted to help or advise. You know, one of our mantras and what I've just said on behalf of Carey and myself is an example of this, that we believe in business you need to give before you get so if we can help you and we can help any of the people listening to this, we would be delighted to help.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> That would be fantastic. I will include both of your email addresses in the show notes. Carey, were you going to say something then?<br><br></div><div><strong>Carey:</strong> I was – we won't charge anything for it.<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> You know, I was just going to say something that you add value to all of your partnerships all of your peers in the industry. Everybody, not just clients. And every time you send me an email, I think I've told you this before, I always open it straight away because I know how much value you give and how much insight I've always got an a-ha moment thinking, gosh, thank goodness that Simon shared that information with me. It's usually agency industry related or specific to clients, some kind of insight. So I think that is so valuable, so I know how much value you give. And I think this is a brilliant offer for anyone listening to get in contact, so I'm sure they will. So thank you so much again for joining me. I really appreciate it. This has been phenomenal<br><br></div><div><strong>Simon:</strong> Our pleasure.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>I hope you enjoyed that episode and come away with lots of tips that you can put into practise straight away. And if you're interested in how good you are at keeping and growing your existing accounts, come over to my website accountmanagementskills.com and take the quiz. It's called the Client Growth Quiz, and speak to you on the next episode.<br></strong><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2020 08:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/n8z534kw.mp3" length="57798446" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/d9aecca0-07ad-11eb-8d46-9f5a5e41aa0b/d9aece00-07ad-11eb-84b6-0da94ac29d16.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2889</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Today's episode is with the founders of Relationship Audits and Management, Carey Evans and Simon Rhind-Tutt.

They are invited in by creative agency leaders and client services directors to assess the strength of their client relationships and provide recommendations and guidance for how to retain and grow the accounts.

In this episode they share tip after tip from years of experience talking to agency clients about what they want most from their agencies.

They remind us of many of the fundamental principles of account management having spoken to hundreds of clients and having built up years of benchmarking data from client interviews about what works and doesn't work when it comes to successful agency client relationships.

In this episode you'll hear:

* Why becoming the go to person within your agency for a chosen topic can accelerate your career
* The winning agency formula for any pitch
* What clients say 64% of agencies never do but should
* How you can make your client's life easier
* The average % time clients have to spend of their day liaising with all their agencies
* How to create instant rapport with your client
* A method we can borrow from professional services firms for how to get to know your client's business quickly
* Five of the biggest trends they are seeing about what clients want most from their agencies right now.....

....and lots more valuable tips and reminders for how to make sure you excel in your account management role.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Today's episode is with the founders of Relationship Audits and Management, Carey Evans and Simon Rhind-Tutt.

They are invited in by creative agency leaders and client services directors to assess the strength of their client relationships and provide recommendations and guidance for how to retain and grow the accounts.

In this episode they share tip after tip from years of experience talking to agency clients about what they want most from their agencies.

They remind us of many of the fundamental principles of account management having spoken to hundreds of clients and having built up years of benchmarking data from client interviews about what works and doesn't work when it comes to successful agency client relationships.

In this episode you'll hear:

* Why becoming the go to person within your agency for a chosen topic can accelerate your career
* The winning agency formula for any pitch
* What clients say 64% of agencies never do but should
* How you can make your client's life easier
* The average % time clients have to spend of their day liaising with all their agencies
* How to create instant rapport with your client
* A method we can borrow from professional services firms for how to get to know your client's business quickly
* Five of the biggest trends they are seeing about what clients want most from their agencies right now.....

....and lots more valuable tips and reminders for how to make sure you excel in your account management role.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>client growth</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to be more productive</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/68r992qn</link>
      <itunes:title>How to be more productive</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>5</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">805qq7w0</guid>
      <description>Do you often feel overwhelmed by how much you have to do? 

This is a short quick fire episode where I answer a question I hear most frequently from creative agency account managers.

The subject of productivity, time management and general overwhelm with number of tasks needed to be completed comes up a lot.

Often being stuck managing the day to day firefighting distracts us from doing the things that are more valuable like thinking about ways of adding more value to the client’s business, looking at trends, working on client relationship expansion, client development planning etc.

So here are 10 tips (plus an extra bonus one I added!) for ensuring you get as much of your Day to day workload completed as possible so it frees up space to do more thinking and planning.

Account managers who want promotion to account director realise the only way they can work on more strategic tasks (client development plans, solving client business &amp; communications  challenges) is to be more time efficient.

Let me know if these tips have been helpful and please share any others you’ve found beneficial so I can share with everyone else.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Transcript:</strong></div><div><strong>Welcome to the Creative Agency Account Manager Podcast with me, Jenny Plant, from Account Management Skills Training. I’m on a mission to help those in agency client service keep and grow the existing relationships, so their agency business can thrive.<br></strong><br></div><div>Welcome to episode five of the Creative Agency Account Manager podcast. This is a solo episode and this is all about how to be more productive.<br><br></div><div>What I’m going to do now and again is have an episode where it’s very short and hopefully valuable to you. And it’s going to answer a question that typically I hear from creative agency account managers. This one is about productivity because it’s a very, very common thing. Lots of people complain that they tend to lurch from one disaster to the other, or they tend to use their time not in the most effective ways.<br><br></div><div>So most people are looking for some kind of productivity hacks or time management strategies. So I’ve just got 10 top tips, these are the tips that I found the most helpful in my career. And I hope they’re useful for you, so I’m going to go through them one by one quite quickly.<br><br></div><div>So number one is <strong>know what your business wants</strong>. Know what the agency wants you to be focusing your time on. I know that might sound obvious, but sometimes we can carry on doing what we think are the priorities. But, actually, the business has another idea. They want us to focus on another area. This also is important if you’re starting a new job, so you might want to develop a 90 day plan. A 90 day plan is where you think, ok, what are the three key big goals that I want to achieve in the next three months and then you go to your boss, talk it through, and say ‘these are going to be the priorities for me’. You get that agreement and then if you get side tracked after those three months, or you get extra task put onto you and you can’t cope, then you can go back to your boss and say, ‘look, we did agree that these we’re going to be my three key priorities on. I’ve just been taken off track, so help me get in alignment’. I think sometimes where people go wrong with this is that they don’t feel they can ask for help. And I think everyone at some point struggles with overload. So if you’re feeling like that right now, I’d like to encourage you to discuss it with somebody else because sometimes it helps, particularly if you’re speaking to someone more senior in the agency who can help you prioritize your workload. So that’s number one.<br><br></div><div>Number two is to <strong>minimize distractions</strong>. Now we all know that in our life right now we find it very difficult to concentrate for five minutes on anything. But it doesn’t help with focus. When you have pop-ups coming up, so many of us work on Microsoft teams or Slack, or we use WhatsApp groups and if we have all of these distractions, there is a study to show that if you’re working on a task, it takes 15 minutes to get back to the task that you were working on. If you’re distracted, close all those windows down, give yourself a chance to be able to focus on one thing at a time. I promise you it’s something that I still struggle with, I’ll be honest. However, when I do close down all distractions and I focus without looking at pop-ups and distractions, it really helps me be more productive.<br><br></div><div>Tip number three is to <strong>limit the number of times you check your emails</strong>. Now, some of us like to have our emails up all the time on and as soon as we see one pop up, we go and have a look at what it’s about. But the same principle applies in terms of minimizing distractions. I always advise that you check your emails three or maybe four times a day at certain times of the day. So once in the morning, once a lunchtime and once in the afternoon or evening, because again it gives you a chance between checking emails to have deep focus time.<br><br></div><div>Number four – talking of deep focus time, we need to understand the benefit off working on those really important tasks, versus the urgent task that tends to come in. So we want to be working on important, not urgent. If you are familiar with the Boston Matrix, you’ll know what I’m talking about here. If you’re not familiar with the Boston Matrix, I really recommend you look it up. It is essentially a grid that you can use to plan all of your tasks on along the top. You have urgent and not urgent along the left hand side. You’ve got important and not important, and each quadrant represents your different tasks and where you want to focus. As much of your time is possible is in the non- urgent and important box. And this is typically the segment off the matrix that you tend to find things like client development plans, client business research, perhaps strategizing and reflecting And, as you get more senior in your creative agency account manager role, you’re gonna be wanting to spend more of your time there. So get into the habit of looking at your tasks and thinking which ones really are going to move the needle in the client’s business or which ones are the ones that I should be focusing my time on.<br><br></div><div>Tip number five is to consider <strong>Parkinson’s law</strong>. Now Parkinson’s law is the law that states a task will take the amount of time that you allocated to it. So if I say I need the report back on my desk in two days time, you’ll get it done in two days and you’ll put that amount of effort in. If I say you’ve got two weeks to get me the report then you may procrastinate. You may draw it out. So think about the way you tend to work and think about whether that suits you. Whether you really respond better to deadlines and set yourself a deadline for achieving a task, it’s amazing how much more productive you can become.<br><br></div><div>Tip number six is, <strong>are you saying yes to other people’s work, are people delegating to you</strong>? That shouldn’t be. Sometimes if you’re in charge of a team, your team will start delegating their workload to you and this often happens to people who are people pleasers. Now again, hands up. That totally fits my description. When I was working as a general manager, I would often be really, really available to my team, and I didn’t want to say no. I didn’t want to turn them down, but what ended up happening was someone turned around to me, my coach at the time, and said, ‘you are getting your needs met’ and now that really shook me up. I thought, gosh, how rude. But actually he was right. I was getting my needs met by being available and helping others because that’s my natural state is to help others. But what you need to do is protect your time. Because, actually, what was happening was I wasn’t getting my own work done because I was being available to everybody else until the very end of the day. And that was making me tired, grumpy, frazzled. So it’s a vicious cycle. So just question yourself. Are you saying yes, too much and taking on other people’s work that you shouldn’t be?<br><br></div><div>Tip number seven is all about <strong>planning in advance.</strong> Now a few tips here I have found that if you can do this in your agency, you may do this already, is take a long term view of the calendar. So think about booking your holidays as much in advance as you can so you can start planning the year around those holidays. Secondly, on the more medium term view, between a month and three months, think about all of the clients you’re working on and some of the projects that are going to be important in the timelines and the actual points in time during those three months that you are going to be busy. And put it in your calendar, mark it in your calendar, when these times are because these key times are times for you to make sure you’re looking after yourself and making sure that you’re keeping your energy levels up. It also will become apparent if there’s any overlap. So maybe you’ve got several clients you’re working with and many of them, their projects are kicking off at the same time or deliveries around the same time, so make sure that you’re at least aware. And that also gives you the opportunity to flag it to your senior management team, because maybe you’re going to need some extra resource to help you around that time. Short term planning – it’s all about looking at your calendar or your to-do list. But the night before now, I use a month to view calendar which of these big, sticky things, which you can see if you’re watching on YouTube. But it’s basically where you see a whole month and you can just update them manually on the other side. There’s actually ‘by day’ so you can actually write down, if you’re a paper and pen girl like me, for the month some of these key milestones for your projects that you’re working on.<br><br></div><div>Tip eight. I’ve alluded to this, but it’s <strong>calendar blocking</strong>, time blocking. This has really transformed the way I manage my time and I now block time in my diary for absolutely everything, including leisure time, even stretching my legs time and I’ve really found that it’s helped me be much more productive. So think about blocking time for all of your task. So rather than having a long, unwieldy list of things to do, which inevitably you don’t get to the end off and you end up feeling a little bit disappointed with yourself that you didn’t achieve everything, think about putting each of those tasks into your calendar because again, it helps you think about ‘well, is this really urgent?’. ‘Is this really important and how am I going to make sure that I schedule enough time for it?’.<br><br></div><div>Tip number nine is to <strong>continually review what you’re spending your time on</strong> with a view to considering whether you can systemise it, or use a tool rather than you spending so much time. So if you’re talking about tracking your time so you can monitor how long task take then I use a tool called Toggl. It’s toggl.com, and it allows me to track the time that I’m spending on each project and then after a few weeks, you can look back and think, ‘gosh, I seem to be spending an awful lot of time on developing timelines’, for example, and then you might realize we’re still using Excel spreadsheets for timelines, maybe we could systemise this. Maybe we could use a tool like Monday.com or using Microsoft Project so that you can use a tool that will make that speedier. Similarly, if you look at your calendar and you realize you’re spending an awful lot of time in meetings, maybe they’re weekly meetings that don’t necessarily have to be an hour, it doesn’t mean to say that every meeting has to be an hour. So think about, is this meeting a good use of everybody’s time? Could it be shorter? Could it be more succinct and, then again, ask people what they think and suggest some different format for that meeting or different length of time for that meeting.<br><br></div><div>And tip number ten is to<strong> restrict your availability for meetings</strong>. Now, often in an agency, this has to be a policy. But I know of many agencies that are saying things like, let’s have a no meetings Friday, no internal meetings Friday or Monday or both. And this has been something that’s been discussed as a wider agency team. So everybody’s got a view on what could be more beneficial. And what that means is that people can’t book meetings in your diary that you haven’t given approval for. Also, it helps to manage your own personal time because during these times, I’m recording this mid September you know, we are coming out of the lock down period,&nbsp; it’s the Covid-19 situation. Many of us are working from home with multiple distractions and a schedule, some of us are taking children to school. But I think this is about culture, and it’s about talking to your agency to look at collaborating as a team and thinking, ‘would this be more beneficial to maybe restrict internal meetings to certain days of the week or maybe certain times of the day, which are suiting more people?’. So have a think about how that could work for you. Personally, I try to block out Mondays and Fridays to have no coaching, no training sessions and no external calls and meetings so that I can focus on content creation, on planning, on doing all of the work that requires deep concentration. So that’s my top 10 tips.<br><br></div><div>I’ve got a bonus, one for you, but let me just run through those tips again.</div><ul><li>So number one was know what the business wants, so that you’re focusing your time in the areas that the agency actually needs. So check with your seniors.</li><li>Number two, minimize distractions. Stop those pop ups.</li><li>Number three, limit amount of time you check your emails,&nbsp; three or four times a day max.</li><li>Number four, understand the benefit of working on important but not urgent tasks. These tend to be your deep work. The ones like client development planning, etc. And these are the ones that really going to move the needle on your career.</li><li>Number five is Parkinson’s Law. Are you allowing yourself too much time to do one particular task? Could it be done more smartly?</li><li>Number six. Are you saying yes, too much? I’m not saying no enough.</li><li>Number seven, are you planning in advance? So think about your long, medium and short term planning tools that you use so that you can put those milestones in your diary in advance.</li><li>Number eight, calendar time blocking. So use your calendar to block times for meetings, for planning for everything that you need.</li><li>Number nine, make sure you continually review how you’re spending your time so you can see how you can leverage tools that you could use and then..</li><li>number 10, restrict availability for internal meetings, and that’s something you probably want to discuss as a team.</li></ul><div><br></div><div>The bonus tip that I’ve got is something that my coach, Osman Sharif, said a while ago, which really, really helped me. Think about, if you are working from home, having different places in your house for doing different tasks. So, for example, if you are creating a plan or having to really focus deeply on content creation, then think about going into your lounge to do it or going to sit by a window to think, or maybe going to a local hotel reception and sitting there for an inspirational environment. Because sometimes we try to do absolutely everything at our desk, but sometimes it means that we’re not the most productive we could be. So if your brain associates your desk as a place that you do lots of quick turnaround tasks phone calls, meetings, emails, then you need to change your environment so that your brain, then all of a sudden has a different feeling and it tends to operate in a different way. So I tend to do all of my thinking somewhere else other than my desk. And if you’re in the office environment, then going into a meeting room and closing the door so that you’ve got that deep focus time.<br><br></div><div>So I really hope this has been beneficial. I would love to hear from you if you have any other tips to share for creative agency account managers. May be something that you use all the time, a tool, or it could be a methodology or just a tip.<br><br></div><div>I’d love to hear your views, so if you I would like to share with me your feedback, I’d love to hear from you. It’s jenny@accountmanagementskills.com, and I’ll see you on the next episode.</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2020 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/l8472nmw.mp3" length="19245369" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/60388c60-f8a2-11ea-9193-9f5523eecc1f/60388da0-f8a2-11ea-b5a2-878f790e3a4c.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>962</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Do you often feel overwhelmed by how much you have to do? 

This is a short quick fire episode where I answer a question I hear most frequently from creative agency account managers.

The subject of productivity, time management and general overwhelm with number of tasks needed to be completed comes up a lot.

Often being stuck managing the day to day firefighting distracts us from doing the things that are more valuable like thinking about ways of adding more value to the client’s business, looking at trends, working on client relationship expansion, client development planning etc.

So here are 10 tips (plus an extra bonus one I added!) for ensuring you get as much of your Day to day workload completed as possible so it frees up space to do more thinking and planning.

Account managers who want promotion to account director realise the only way they can work on more strategic tasks (client development plans, solving client business &amp; communications  challenges) is to be more time efficient.

Let me know if these tips have been helpful and please share any others you’ve found beneficial so I can share with everyone else.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Do you often feel overwhelmed by how much you have to do? 

This is a short quick fire episode where I answer a question I hear most frequently from creative agency account managers.

The subject of productivity, time management and general overwhelm with number of tasks needed to be completed comes up a lot.

Often being stuck managing the day to day firefighting distracts us from doing the things that are more valuable like thinking about ways of adding more value to the client’s business, looking at trends, working on client relationship expansion, client development planning etc.

So here are 10 tips (plus an extra bonus one I added!) for ensuring you get as much of your Day to day workload completed as possible so it frees up space to do more thinking and planning.

Account managers who want promotion to account director realise the only way they can work on more strategic tasks (client development plans, solving client business &amp; communications  challenges) is to be more time efficient.

Let me know if these tips have been helpful and please share any others you’ve found beneficial so I can share with everyone else.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>Productivity agency account management</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to have a successful career in agency account management, with Phil Lancaster</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/1npyr238</link>
      <itunes:title>How to have a successful career in agency account management, with Phil Lancaster</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>4</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">z0r6l7x0</guid>
      <description>Phil Lancaster has worked his entire career in agency account management.

He's worked for some of the most successful agency holding companies such as The Lowe Group and WPP where he lead global account management teams and held the role of Global Business Director for brands such as Jaguar Land Rover, Reckitt Benckiser, Bayer and Bank of America.

He has a wealth of experience working with clients at the board level and believes strongly that agency account managers need to have a relationship with the C-Suite in a client company.

Other points we discuss are:

* The value of the role of account management for both agencies and client (this has been debated recently in an IPA report)
* One of the most important ways an agency account manager can save the client money
* How account managers can position themselves as trusted advisors rather than order takers
* Where agency account managers get client management wrong
* Why C-Suite relationship building is essential
* Advice for agency account managers to strengthen relationships amidst current remote working conditions
* Phil's thoughts on how the agency landscape is changing and the future of the role of agency account management
* Phil's top advice for you if you are starting out in your career in account management.....

.....and lots more nuggets of wisdom and reflection from years of experience so this is one not to miss.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Welcome to the Creative Agency Account Manager Podcast with me, Jenny Plant, from Account Management Skills Training. I'm on a mission to help those in agency client service keep and grow the existing relationships, so their agency business can thrive.<br></strong><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Welcome to episode four. Today, I'm delighted to be speaking to Phil Lancaster. Phil has spent most of his career in account management and has worked for some of the most successful holding companies in the agency space. He's worked for companies like the Lowe Group and W P. P at a very senior level as client team leader and global business director. And he's worked at a very C suite level with clients for brands such as Bayer, Reckitt Benkiser, Jaguar, Land Rover, etc. So he's got a huge amount of experience in this space. So what he's going to be sharing with us is what he sees is the true value of the role of account management for both agencies and clients. He's also going to share some examples of the actions account management cant ake to save clients time and money. He's going to share with us his advice for agency account managers to help position you more as a trusted advisor versus a reactive order taker. He's also gonna share some examples where agencies get it wrong. And he has a particular interest in helping agencies reach the C suite level relationships of their clients. So he's going to share some tips around how you can start to think about doing that. He's also going to share his views on the role and how it's evolved, given that the report has come out recently saying that there is an urgent review needed. And also he's gonna share some advice for how to strengthen your client relationships, given the fact that many of us are still working remotely. So without further ado, let me go straight to the interview. Phil, thank you so much for joining me today. Would you mind spending a couple of minutes just talking about your experience in account management?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Phil:</strong> I'm very happy to do so. Good morning as well. I've spent my entire life actually in account management, which is in terms of a career a very long time, and I came from the various lowest positions to one of the more senior positions through that function o that department. I started my career with Grey. In fact, I'm a product of most of the agency large networks around the world and holding companies. And I worked with the Bates Group and the low Group and in the last two decades with W P. P. and with an agency called J. Walter Thompson, which one point I was ahead of client service at J. Walter Thompson, which was about 120 people. I think that made it the largest account management department in the world of that time, so that was quite a challenge. But I am, you know, a child of account management. I believe fervently in it and I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of being in it, so happy to discuss that with you this morning.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Fantastic. I know that you also were leading at a sort of holding company level some huge blue chip clients on I see from your background their brands like Jaguar, Landrover, Reckitt Benkiser, Bank of America, Kellogg's those a huge blue chip brands. So I'm so delighted that you've been up to join me and talk to me about this because I think you are the epitome of sort of someone who is leading account management at a very senior level. So I'm curious to know what do you see as the value of account management, both for agencies and for clients?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Phil:</strong> I mean, that's if I could put this into a short answer, rather in a very long one. I again, I believe very strongly in the value that account management brings to the relationship between an agency and its client. But if we start with the client side for a moment, I think that, you know, notwithstanding the fact that many clients are perhaps beginning to in-house creative capability and resource, largly speaking, it's still, there's a world out there of very good agency people in agencies. that client's work alongside and use as partners. It is not their skill therefore to exact the creative mysteries of an agency to produce work that has a commercial impact on their business. They leave that to people within the agencies, and that's particularly led by the function of account management not exclusively, of course, but certainly often led by. And so the value to a client of account management is that it is, and the people who work in it&nbsp; are those are the most expert in getting out of the agency all of its brilliant skills of creativity from its people and its execution on behalf of their business on behalf of their client brand, their service, their product, whatever we're talking about. So it's a vital role for any client institution, particularly when they're probably playing a great deal of money for it as well. So you know it's an investment in an individual and a function that will at some point return greatly on the performance of their brand or their service. So something that they don't enter into lightly, at all. It’s a deeply competitive areas as we know. So they have plenty of people to choose from and agencies. If you face the agency point of view there's so many talented people in an agency you know, and I include in that talented finance people, talented admin people as well as insight and strategy and, of course, creativity. But they would muddle together and produce very little if there weren't some kind of leadership to that process. Someone and a group of people who are absolutely accountable for ensuring that the agency presents the best creative thinking, the best creative execution, which has an impact in the real commercial world, where it drives a top line of a business for a client and indeed may fall to the bottom line, too. But there's a very clear relationship here with getting out of an agency group, its very best creativity and in some way making sure that that has an impact on the financial performance of a client business, because ultimately that's what clients are concerned about. So there have been experiments without account management in the past occasionally in agencies on none of them have worked. And that's not to say it's any more important function than it is planning or creative. Of course not, but it's a vital role, and it will continue to be a vital role. But it's changing profoundly, has a role. I'm sure we'll talk about in a moment.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Just on that point. Actually, that's curious, because I do know that some agencies decide consciously to not have an account management function, and you say there that it hasn't worked. Can you tell us a little bit more about why you think it doesn't work?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Phil:</strong> Well, my personal belief, you know, I say this with humility because others may disagree with me, is it’s really quite difficult to be a brilliant creative person in an agency and to also be worrying about building the relationship with a client, understand the client's business inside out, to spot the opportunities to grow the business with the client challenging environment. And the same for perhaps the planning function the same, perhaps, for anything to do with that broad term media. It's a great deal to take on if you're going to be brilliant in one of those functions, frankly, on behalf of the client. So my experience has been that it becomes like a drag anchor on those individuals where if you're trying to be creative, because that's what you are accountable for and then to trying to take on some responsibilities of orchestration, process, dealing with procurement, whatever happens to be, you'll never produce your best work. You don't simply don't have the bandwidth. You don't have the stamina to do that and I think allow people to be brilliant in their area of expertise, gather them together, point them in a very similar direction and motivate them and inspire them. But let them be great at what they're really good at.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> I love that you said that. I feel that was a great response, actually. What do you think makes a brilliant account manager?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Phil:</strong> Gosh, well, I think there's some underlying skills sure than this, which is, let me tell you what it's not, in a way. If any young account manager management to person thinks that being incredibly popular with the creative group and focusing primarily on their internal reputation, and that it's simply a function of presenting what's being created internally to a willing client who will always say yes, you're not going to get very far. And equally if you take on more of the kind of the hue of the client, so you almost feel like you're outside of the agency, because what you do is you align with the client most readily and most often and see it entirely. From their point of view, it becomes quite dispiriting for the people in the agency, particularly creative people. I think the brilliant skills required of account management is that you have got to have an understanding and an innate interesting curiosity around two things. One of which is the broad business world, you know how do clients make money. How can I help them make more money on how can I grow their business? But equally you've got to have the, you know, the qualitative skills, the EQ, the genuine intuition and desire to be interested in anything creative. Not just the creative art of producing materials that stimulate brands and products and services, but, you know, you've really got to be genuinely interested in what the agency produces, you know, because that's the sausage machine that you work with every day, you know? And I've seen too many account people who come in who have really no interest in the creative product whatsoever and align themselves terribly with a client business and vice versa. You know, people who look very naive because they only talk about creativity within the agency, and it has absolutely no impact whatsoever on a client business. So the profound skill of very good account management people is to face both ways. And the thing that ties it is an intellectual curiosity and a heartfelt desire for creativity in its broadest sense.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> What an articulate response. Thank you, that was really, really interesting. I think you've highlighted a couple of times about the importance of the agency account managers understanding the world of the client, their business world, the business outcomes that we're helping them achieve. Can you share with us maybe a couple of actions or examples of where you've witnessed the function of agency account management actually saving the client money or making them money, as you say, the top line revenue, or perhaps eliminating cost?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Phil:</strong> I mean, the very best way to be the most effective partner for your client group is to produce the highest standard of work first time with little or no rework because it's so inherently good and finished that runs successfully in the marketplace and has the required impact on the business. The problem with that is that often we start out wrong and we get more wronger. Frankly, the brief is sloppy, inarticulate, imprecise carries no definition, no competitive difference whatsoever from the competitive set. And if you start out with a poor, sloppy, dull or lacking any kind of insight, brief things only get worse from there. And ultimately, the work that served up is frankly, average and its impact is probably worse than average. So if you want to save your client time and money, then be absolutely zealous around the quality of the brief on that. Of course you can do with your client, but you must take on the responsibility for it. And the only way that you will write brilliant briefs, frankly, is to know more about the client business than sometimes do themselves. To have this Olympian understanding of your own business in the agency and what it does, and to go further than anybody on the detail of writing something which is so perfect in its short form that everyone understands exactly what you're trying to do and what you'll be measured against. But it's such a brilliant platform for the creative teams to work from, but they find it inspiring in itself, let alone as a brilliant springboard for great work that they can produce. Poor brief, lots of rework, lots of arguments, lots of cost and ultimately a failing relationship.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> And presumably also, you know, if you spend the time on the brief, get the brief right and the works right first time it can not only saved some time and cost, but also makes the money because ultimately what we're doing is a marketing action. It could be an ad campaign. It could be a comprehensive strategy around positioning. But ultimately we're helping the client achieve their business outcome.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Phil:</strong> Yeah, yeah, we are. I mean, I think long gone are the days where an agency could be a partner that provided simply creative execution, that did or didn't work and that there appeared to be no accountability. Frankly and thank goodness to be any form of partner commercial partner for any client, business and agency can only be a concerned with one thing, which is how can we be most brilliant with our creative thinking execution, but only to impact on their commercial success? Because if you delve just a little into the world of the client organisation that you're working with, it's very obvious very quickly that they are accountable to very hard nose metrics, quantifiable metrics, of share and growth&nbsp; and ROI you know, and profit. And so that's the language with which we need to discuss it with them. But at the same time, you know, we know that we are one of many partners that can impact on their business for a very particular reason. The management consultants that they were with may do something else and the frenemies that we are more familiar within, the Facebooks and the Googles, do something else. But none of them serve up the creativity that in theory agencies do, that can have such a dramatic impact on their commercial success. So I think account management today need to be really throw off the clothing of naivety and on worldliness and really understand if you're gonna have an impact on a client, business is gonna have to be first and foremost commercial. And it is impact will because it's just brilliantly conceived and different and captures the imagination of ordinary people like you and I in our homes, and builds that affinity with the particular company that we're talking about. So, you know, some things have changed enormously when we talk about data and technology, you know, in the delivery, to these clients now great speed and agility. Some things are always the same. I mean, we must never forget we're still dealing with ordinary human beings and need to be encouraged so genuinely fall in love with what we say and what we do and what we offer and to stay with us over the long term. You know, it's a very human interaction this and thank God, too, because it makes it so much more interesting.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> You're so so right. We are dealing with human relationships. You're absolutely spot on. If there's an account manager listening right now and they're thinking right, this totally makes sense. How do I start showing up and acting like a true trusted advisor to my clients rather than sort of a passive reactive order taker? What's your advice for them to help them position themselves more in that way?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Phil:</strong> Well, I think you started in the right place, by the way, that there is no future of any young account manager into next senior representative, an agency or otherwise if they are reactors. You know, we do need the practicalities of people who are good at making things happen in an agency, but they don’t tend to necessarily now sit just in the account management group. Account managers need to be forcefully in a very positive way with their clients, so that they are always prompting, always initiating, always suggesting proposals that develop the business and the thinking in the outcome. So by natural inclination, you know that's a skill that can be learned and taught. But it does help if you begin that way, as well as personality and character trait. So that's the very important start point on this. What I tend to say to anybody that I've ever interviewed or I've worked with in my groups and developed is you will always be reputationally thought of highly within a client organisation if you know as much about their business as they do or indeed, at times, more. It’s a criticism of the industry to a little, to a degree, that we still don't know our client business as well as we should. The brilliant account management people are those that have spent the time because they enjoy understanding how the client makes money. You know how they grow, where they're trying to grow, what the insurmountable problems are that they're trying to surmount. It's a bit like anybody. If you sit in front of someone and you talk about yourself for half an hour they don't find it particularly rewarding exchange. If you sit with a client and talk about them and their business and suggest things, tell them things that they don't know, you're inevitably more interesting than the other agency and the other people in it who really there to take orders to produce creative work which we’ll come onto in a moment. So, first and foremost, if you really want to stand out from the pack, either within your own agency or indeed with other agencies know their business, chapter and verse and show interest and go and see them in a post Covid world. Phone up anybody you can think of in the business, talk to anybody you know in the tertiary industries that support their business. I can assure you, you’ll be absolutely delighted in the response you get when you're able to talk about their business in great breath and depth because you then move towards this wonderful word which is such an enigma to us, this word of trust. You become more and more trusted the more you understand what they're trying to do, and how you could suggest that they might reach those goals.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>So that's the client side within the agency. I mean, there are robotic account managers that go through the process of just getting work out the door. Not many of them, but they're easy to see. And there are those that are driven by this innate desire to just be creative, think creative, spend time with creative people and produce things that have not been seen before, done before and that have a material impact, which is just exciting, you know, it's great fun. It separates our business from many other worthwhile sectors of industry that don't go about it. But it's very difficult to talk about clients and innovation and inventiveness and originality, when by if nature you plodding through an agency, ticking the boxes, going to work because you think that today is a good day to have another good meeting and to do some process, you know, which is not the purpose of what we do anyway, and then it's just a means to an end. So I think that, you know, the value that that one, as in account management, should be measured by your outstanding contribution to the delivery of creative work within the agency that stands out and has an impact on the client business, but also the fact that you have become more and more valuable to a kind organisation because you seem to be able to trigger the right work regularly at the highest standard, because you know where to take the thinking and where to take the work in the client organisation. It cannot be either or I'm afraid, it really has to be both.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> I love that. One of the things Phil and I’d love your view on this as I don't think I've ever asked you this before. One of the things that I get a lot of pushback on is in some agencies account management function have, like a dual role. They actually have to manage the projects but also manage the relationship and inevitably, what happens is they get very bogged down with the delivery of the projects and the development and long term strategic thinking about how you're gonna add value to their business. Spending more time in the client's spotting opportunities, getting more traction within the client organisation goes to the wayside, so it's probably more of a business model kind of question but what's your view if you have one on whether the account management function should not be in any way, shape or form touching projects and they should just be dedicated to client retention and growth.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Phil:</strong> Well, I'm suspicious of that. You know what I mean? First of all, I'm not sure that you could grow to be a more senior member of the account management department unless you've gone through the learning curve of delivering the process, getting your hands dirty and understanding the geography of an agency today and its partnership. I mean, you really are going to have to be perfectly eloquent around data and technology and creativity. That triangulation is something that every year, account person coming through the ranks is going to need to be very comfortable with an understand. And I am not so sure either, that you're an effective&nbsp; developer of more senior relationships, without the understanding of how a conversation you have with that client will impact on the agency whether the resources available. How you might find the appropriate resources direct it and manage it to create the output that you're looking to achieve as a result of discussion with the relationship. Also, the hard truth is that one has to make time on top of the delivery, the practicalities of delivery to build your relationships across a client base, so that's about going the extra mile, actually, to determine who you might need to know in the client organisation, what you need to know from them. And where you can take the information back to the agency to perhaps improve for shortened, to simplify, to remove complexity from the process. To produce things which are more valuable to a client and then the agency has a result in a different way, with a greater pace and acceleration. So I don't think the two will ever be separate or decoupled. Of course, as you rise through the ranks of account management, internal senior positions, you do less, and that's quite frightening, by the way, it's a point we should make that when your account director and you begin to hedge towards the border or a directorship within an agency. I have found that one of the most challenging aspects of that is for those young people to give away the job of doing because they were very good at doing and to start delegating and take on the responsibility of much more, nebulous areas of a relationship development where it's less black and white about whether it was right or wrong or whether it worked or it didn't. And to trust in those people you delegated to as well. So that transition is one that we've worked on very hard over the years in the agencies I’ve been in, to manage that emerging from senior account director position into young board director, young director position where the role is fundamentally different. But you cannot reach that more senior role unless you have underpinned the understanding,&nbsp; the geography and the realities and delivering work in the agency.<br><br></div><div><strong>&nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> It's a really good response. I like that. Great answer. You talk a lot about developing relationships with C Suite, the C suite of your client company. Why do you think that's so important for agency account managers? And do you have any tips that you can share?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Phil:</strong> Right I have to keep this to a reasonably short answer. It is entirely vital. It's entirely vital for two reasons. First of all, that it protects the business in the revenue that an agency has in the first place, and secondly, it is the single best source of driving incremental new business from the existing client. I guess one has to start with what's the definition of C Suite and the first thing to disabuse people of, perhaps, is that we're not simply talking about CMO. And by the way, my private opinion is that the role of CMO is diminishing quite rapidly. And here are many other important roles within C Suite whether that's a chief technology officer, whether it's the head of corporate affairs, whether its head of legal, whether it's the CFO, CEO, the list goes on. There is a much broader spectrum now of C Suite that it’s imperative that agency people know, that they engaged with regularly, that they listened to and that they take initiatives to because they all hold budget. They all can grow your business. They all have an increasing say on the output of agencies and communication because they realise that that's a key differential now and that rarely are big decisions about communication made by individuals, including a CMO. They are more often made by leadership teams within a client organisation, particularly when you get to the bigger ones. So I'm working with a lot of agencies and I think you know, this as well for whom a relationship with C suite does not exist. And they are really, really vulnerable because decisions can be made no matter how good the agency's work has been or is at the moment, decisions can be made, which have no bearing whatsoever on the current relationship and output and now suddenly mean that the business is gone. And I have suffered this myself and particularly with the emergence of procurement who don't really care about that aspect of the business. They're more concerned about the effectiveness of the work on the relationship. And that's a separate point entirely, I guess so. It is unfathomable, really, to think that the management of an agency do not work day in and day out, week in and week out and so on, in the development of their broad based C Suite4 relationships to protect what the agency already has the business quite apart from growing up because it's hugely rewarding when you do, by the way, when you build a C suite relationships frankly, new jobs flow. New funding flows, new opportunities to reputationally emerge like out of a chrysalis every six months, 12 months of the year as a fresh agency that has fresh thinking rather than being seen as the agency that was good 2-3 years ago. You know, in terms of the value proposition of an agency, it's a great way to make sure that you look relevant and fresh all the time to a broad group of people in a client organisation that will continually think of you as a current partner, not one of the past.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> And what do you have any advice for maybe agency leaders or account managers of listening to this and thinking, we don't have any relationships at all at any C suite level with our clients. Where do you even start with trying to form those relationships?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Phil:</strong> Well, I mean, I believe strongly in a programme that's institutionalised within an agency to identify the C suite and to create content to take to them at a programme of managing them across the senior agency people matching them with senior client people and how it's a bit like, you know, selling a car. BMW would be delighted to sell me a car, of course, but there'll be a margin on that, but where they really made the money's in the after sales and the service and the fact that I'd become a long term and loyal supporter of the brand and buy various cars in the future. Therein lies the opportunity here, which is that we have created you know,&nbsp; I have created on approach, which allows agencies to identify what the key issues are that confront the client, who the clients is,&nbsp; who have prospects are across that leadership team because there are many off them in theory. And there are the emerging stars as well, coming beneath and everyone needs to pick up. Once you've managed to get something in their diary, virtually or otherwise, what on earth do I say to them that's going to interest them, hold their attention and asked them to perhaps think about a new area of their business on? Then how do I keep in there? How do I keep that fresh? How do I keep coming back? How do I keep from taking the phone call for me once a month? Because every time I feel Jenny, come on the phone, they always tell me something interesting about my business. They always provide me with a solution. Perhaps one I didn't even know I needed. You know, that's a programme in itself, is not a nice to have. It really is a must have. The very best agencies is, of course, do this. Working with the Omnicom’s and the WPPs and a little of the IPG, for instance, they have very good people who know how to build these relationships out over months and years, identifying what a client requires at any one time, but also making sure that that could be translated into what the agency can deliver, building those trust levels. But it's not a short answer to that. There is a programme that one needs to look at, think about it very carefully, you know, we share all our war stories. I think the most valuable thing I'm able to share with people is all the things that have not worked. Actually, all the things I've done wrong all the blind alleys that turned out, but there are some things that really do work time and again across business, domestic business, global business brands, products, services, I think account management needs to know these things.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Can you share just a couple of examples of maybe where you got it wrong and where you were hugely successful?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Phil:</strong> Yeah. I mean, I talked earlier about the fact that if you don't believe in creativity and if you're not excited by creativity, in its broadest sense. It is not an easy industry to be in. But at the same time, I just see people do get kind of its like a laughing gas. We sometimes get so excited about certain things that we lose sight on why we're doing it, what its role is and where you know, it really needs to be quite commercially impactful. Some of the biggest mistakes I've made is where I've probably wanted to appease what I thought was brilliant creative work out of an agency, because I knew that it would provide a higher profile for the agency because of its creative prowess, and that becomes slightly dislocated from that's all very well. But, you know, was it ever gonna work on behalf of the client business? Should they ever have invested their hard earned money in it and what you're gonna say to them when it didn't work, even though someone standing on a plinth in an award show picking up awards on the trade press has picked up on the beauty of the work. But six months down the line, you're under great pressure because the brand has underperformed and I have made those mistakes a few times, and I learned the hard way, and that's what I talked about earlier. Which is you've got to be really hard nosed as an account manager, account director. Is it going to work in the real world, no matter how exciting it is on behalf of the reputation of the agency and the people who created it. Which is very important, of course, but I have lost business months after producing the most lauded and awarded work, and I have rarely ever lost business when work has been so commercially and fundamentally successful. The clients will achieve their own personal metrics and financial rewards through the bonus scheme because your work drove the performance of their brand or their service. So there's a really careful balancing act there about, as I said to you earlier, facing in two different directions. But you know, creative work can inspire great brand performance. That's wonderful, thank goodness. But equally there are times when other types of, what's the word I'm going to use, precise work, you can have just as much of an impact and develop your business. So I've made plenty of mistakes in those areas. Where have I done things differently? Some things I think that had the most impact is when I've introduced clients to new partners that they haven't thought of working with before, so that they could extend their distribution footprint. Or maybe there was a sampling exercise that they could piggyback on the backup. So the adjacencies of putting a really impressive brand together with another brand that consumers and insight might pull natural together, but have never worked together in the past because they don't see themselves as working in the same areas, has been fundamentally very satisfying, but also quite lucrative on behalf of the client business. So I mean, I think another time, but we can give some very good examples of that, how to put those adjacencies to this together.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> I think that's a fabulous example. It also highlights to your point before about the more we understand about the client's business, actually, our job in account management is to retain and grow the client business, but we need to keep their business objectives in mind. This is not about us selling more of our services. It's looking at what is right for the client business right now. And you know, just there's one great example there of introducing a new potential partner, which is going to open up a revenue stream for the client. And that's not selling more of your services. That is adding value truly, adding value to the client organisations. I think that's a great example. I love the fact that you've said that you need, every agency, needs a programme for reaching the C suite and we’ll certainly share the contact details for your systematic approach to reaching the C suite because I think again, that's absolute gold. Just recently, we've talked about this briefly but there was an IPA report that was commissioned.&nbsp; It talked about the role of account management and the fact that there needs to be an urgent review and it was kind of putting into question the value of the account management. Do you have any thoughts on that report and its findings?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Phil:</strong> Well, I agree with them. I really do think it requires an urgent review of what account management has become and it really should be on. I would start with some of the terminology. I find account management, client service, you know, some of these terms unhelpful or redundant, and yet it's really very difficult to find a better term somehow. So I think a review of the function and its so called skillset is desperately needed. I think that sometimes the headlines would suggest that there's a tremendous crisis involved, you know, because that makes a good headline. There's an awful lot that's good in the account management within agencies, there's some very good people with some great skill set who are doing things the right way. I think what we're talking about here is like anything else you know, creative destruction which is, if we were starting from scratch what would we lay aside in terms of what the offer of account management is now on, what would we retain and what would we add going forward on. I believe that some of the requirements of the remain same, which is about, as I said earlier, you know, this duopoly off, being inspired and motivated by creativity generally and at the same time having curiosity and an interest and understanding of the world of business and the commercial opportunity that confronts our client. So those are the broad perspectives. Added to that, and I talked about the triangulation earlier of understanding what data means what technology means in creativity, they're just words that are thrown around, you know. Ultimately, one has to take it back to what do human beings want, desire, need, look for. What could we persuade them that they had never thought about before but could be quite interesting to them? And I have genuinely think, and I looked for it in anybody that worked with me in this area, you have to have a fundamental&nbsp; interest in people. You have to be quite nosy and curious, you know, and watch and listen. And a piece of advice, I would give, by the way, too young account people but carrying throughout your life is, I read a different publication every day. I’ll read something out of The New Statesman one day, but The Spectator the next. the Daily Mirror one day,&nbsp; The Daily Telegraph the next. I will watch ITVB and the terrible collection of reality programmes. And I will watch something like Newsnight. I have listened to you know, Asian radio, overseas radio, commercial radio, Broadcast Arabia. The more one listens and watches and assimilates information from different parts of the spectrum of society and people you'll find them more interesting and engaging. You'll understand a little bit more about where they shift in their attitudes in a society. And you're a lot more useful to your clients because I'd worry terribly about those people that never watch much TV or who don't know the plot of Eastenders, you know, or here’s good example someone recently, you know, somebody in account management in their twenties, what’s your view of Gym Shark, tell me about that, and they hadn't even heard of the brand. Now populist brands are popular for a reason because they capture something of the imagination perhaps for the first time. A young man has created an extraordinary business on the back off being in competition with major players like Nike and Reebok is an extraordinary story. But when you take it back to its base, he just loved the idea of working around this area of young people who wanted to work out and be fit and Crossfit and all the rest of it. Wow, what a story, he created it. My view is, the more you know, the more you read, the more you watch, the more knowledge you have, the more ideas you have, the more interesting you’ll be to your client. And if you're not interesting, you're not gonna last five seconds with a client organisation and you're never going to reach a senior position. And you're not gonna hold the interest levels of C suite. So feed the machine of your knowledge and understanding. But make sure you balance it. That's why I say, don't be drawn in by a left wing persuasion, right wing persuasion, populism, intellectual, academic. It doesn't matter.<br><br></div><div><strong>&nbsp;<br></strong><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> I think that's just such a fantastic tip. I really, really do. I'm usually banging the drum for reading, certainly reading, too, particularly personal development books, all about developing relationships and obviously industry information. But the fact that you've just shared that tip about, just broaden it out, you know, diversify your reading sources. I think that that's just gold. So thank you for that. That's brilliant. Currently, Phil, with our relationships with clients, we're recording this just coming into September 2020 and we're just kind of coming out of the Covid situation, lifting slowly the lock down rules. But essentially many of our clients are still working from home. Many agencies are kind of moving to more of a hybrid model, letting their staff also worked from home and maybe a couple of days in the office. How do you develop relationships or continue the momentum of developing relationships when you can't meet in person? Certainly so frequently as we used to.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Phil:</strong> Perhaps there is a shift of focus, actually, which is, I believe, undeniably in the need for a relationship I really do. But I think that the shift of focus is perhaps now on the word value, and I do believe that whilst it is more difficult to achieve, we can project our value on our clients remotely as much, if not more so we can, in the old model of presenteeism and being together and that having that idle time to get to know each other. So it's a tricky one, and it's perhaps a rather stock answer but I genuinely believe that you will drive a relationship over the long term because of the value that you bring. And the value you bring will be your intellectual stamina and observation and point of view, as well as the initiatives and the proposals that no one else is bringing to a client organisation, or client individual that will help him drive the business and, frankly, looks smart at times within their own organisation. So when we had the opportunity to meet in person and to spend time and to build our relationship from the outside in as it&nbsp; were, and reveal our value over the course of hours and weeks and years and whatever it worked well, but you ultimately could track through to being quite a valuable individual to the client organisation. You kind of have to turn it on its head now, present yourself immediately as someone of value, on behalf of a valuable agency and a valuable function called account management that brings a point of difference and a commercial impact on the business from the word go and that will then lead to a long lasting relationship. Inverted commas. Whether relationships on the metrics of those will be in the future hard nose quantitative r ROI metrics, probably, less so than they ever were in the past, when they were more qualitative or it was as much about who you were, how you engaged with the client on a, you know, just a human aspect, as it was on the performance of what your outcomes were. So shift, I think a shift is the order of the day. But I do think engagements vital finding ways and means of engaging with these people in these organisations. And you'll do that because you're valuable.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Great point. Also, I believe that I've heard a lot of people say even the most senior people inc client organisations just are tending to be a little bit more available because of this new way of working so it could present an opportunity.&nbsp; Just a couple more questions, I'm very conscious of your time. Have you got any thoughts on just generally how the creative industry landscape is changing in terms of how agencies are working with clients.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Phil:</strong> Yeah, my sense is that the rules of the game have changed, actually. Probably the most unhelpful word at the moment is the word agency because it suggests to many, and this is the black propaganda that goes around this from people who was wish this to be the case is that agencies are boxes with rigid walls and ceilings that are ponderous and narrow in their scope of understanding and output, and therefore diminishing in terms of their value to a client base. Because there are so many other organisations around that are much more fluid, much more agile and much more, you know, technically competent as it were. So I think that my view of the way forward is that collectives of inspired people who work brilliantly together to deliver the creativity of thought and deed, with their data, with the technological understanding, with the ability to understand the consumer mind, and to change the course of that attitude in consumer behaviour, because of the something we learn from our data or because of a piece of simple technology that just changes everything good means that the method of agencies, if we're going to continue to use that word, has to have changed. It can't be so linear. It can't be so ploddingly process oriented. It has to be and has become in more recent years, much more quickly consensual around the good and the best, of the people and the thinking or the execution and taking rapidly to a client base, onto pilot tests, put in a crucible of, you know, life and see if it works. Course correct. Move it on. And not, in the days of past, where there was almost a delight in the process as much as there was in the work.&nbsp; I think it's move. Make things, try them, test them, hold their feet to the fire, change, course correct, move again. Keep moving.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Have you seen any agencies that are doing that particularly well and adapting to the new way, those new demands of ways of working?<br><br></div><div><strong>Phil:</strong> I see it all around. I'm not to sure it’s just in agencies. I mean, you know, if you look at the FANGs and you look at some of the still some of the great agency groups that I mentioned earlier but also in the independent sector. What a time to be in the independent sector now, as well, you know where major clients, domestic or global, are quite prepared to work with the smallest or largest. If the thinking is good and the execution is there. I think that there are examples all around. I'm particularly taken with the shift as well in some of the more long term publishers who, perhaps, have begun to understand how to confront the likes of Google and Facebook. We've been in this whole area of this dreadful word content, but I think that they are beginning to learn really quickly now about how they change their offer. So there's lots to learn from those boys as well. So lots going on lots going on.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> If you were going to start again, Phil, in your career because I'm very conscious is a few agency account managers that just beginning in their journey, they want to sort of be successful as quickly as possible. Looking back on your career, if you were starting again, what would you have done differently, or any tips that you can share for getting people sort of ahead of where they need to be.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Phil:</strong> Well it’s still a glorious career to go into, by the way, that I do believe whatever that career is. But, you know, in it's broadest sense. I tell you what the biggest mistake I made in the early years, I just believed in big titles too much. I believed the people of above me and around who wielded their title, convinced me to make decisions and to do things in a particular way, which instinctively, I was unsure about or didn't believe them. And there's a fine line here between a young account manager who thinks they know everything perhaps probably just needs to show a bit of humility and learn a bit more. But there does come a point where you have to stare down the titles and the structure, and than those that have gone before that tell you everything they've done that was perfect and forget to tell you the things that weren't. And you've got to be your own person and I genuinely believe that. I mean, I fundamentally made a change of my approach in my early thirties to begin to trust myself more because I began to assess the people around me. And when I broke down their life experiences versus professional experience and the evidence before me of what they were and weren't achieving in the business I drew the conclusion that I probably had as much to say that might be was worthwhile, and it might just be better. And funnily enough, after a few months and a couple of years, it really was. You have to be careful you don't get ahead of yourself and think too much of yourself, but really, yeah, I guess that's what I said earlier. If you know more, you’ve read more, watched more, thought more, you can begin to trust yourself more. And when you trust yourself more you cand be more sure about what you say to a client and why because you've underpinned it with good evidence and understanding. You’ve tested it. You're not going in there because someone gave you the thought or the work because they were entitled to through their title. Ignore it.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> I love that advice that made me feel quite emotional because I could identify that a lot myself. Phil, this has been amazing. Lots of golden nuggets and pieces of advice for account managers. Where can people reach you? And who would you like to be contacted by?<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Phil:</strong> Well, I'm available. I'm on LinkedIn. So that's one method of reaching me. Of course and I'm sure we could share details of my email as well afterwards. Who'd I like to? I really don't mind who contacts me, Jenny, I really don't. I continue even though I'm now working, running my own consultancy in the independent sector, I continue to be very involved with the industry and I continue to mentor casually or more professionally, many young people and many senior people. So I find it thoroughly rewarding to do both, but at the same time, I have my own client base. So I'm having to put what I just spent 45 minutes talking to you about into practise every day and still I make mistakes. Still, I get it wrong, but I get a lot more right than I did in the past. So, I feel like, you know, if you want to talk to me, as a senior member of an agency group on behalf of your management team or as an individual, or you have issues with your clients. Or you're someone that's just looking for perhaps a bit of help with a particular issue in the career. You know, if I can find time to do it, I'll always be very happy to talk. But I'm finding that a lot of agency management senior management contacted me. Just as a sounding board. Maybe one or two ideas about how to change things in a particular way and to think about things very differently. So that's the area I'm operating in, as board advisor and as a non executive, and running the consultancy.<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Wonderful. Brilliant. Well, Phil, I'm gonna share your contact details in the show notes. So once again, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me. This has been amazing. And I know lots of people going to come away with a lot of value. So thank you so much.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>Well, I hope you enjoyed my chat with Phil. And if you're thinking that you would like to test how good you are currently retaining and growing your existing client relationships, I'd like to invite you to come over to my website, which is accountmanagementskills.com, where there's a short quiz that you can take and you'll get a report at the end of it with a score, which will give you an indication of maybe some of the areas that you could be doing to retain and grow your client relationships. So come over to accountmanagementskills.com.&nbsp;</div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2020 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/j8y70rv8.mp3" length="62717826" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/d3b271a0-f2ad-11ea-964c-69797c8b613e/d3b273f0-f2ad-11ea-98d5-2f0311564bac.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3135</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Phil Lancaster has worked his entire career in agency account management.

He's worked for some of the most successful agency holding companies such as The Lowe Group and WPP where he lead global account management teams and held the role of Global Business Director for brands such as Jaguar Land Rover, Reckitt Benckiser, Bayer and Bank of America.

He has a wealth of experience working with clients at the board level and believes strongly that agency account managers need to have a relationship with the C-Suite in a client company.

Other points we discuss are:

* The value of the role of account management for both agencies and client (this has been debated recently in an IPA report)
* One of the most important ways an agency account manager can save the client money
* How account managers can position themselves as trusted advisors rather than order takers
* Where agency account managers get client management wrong
* Why C-Suite relationship building is essential
* Advice for agency account managers to strengthen relationships amidst current remote working conditions
* Phil's thoughts on how the agency landscape is changing and the future of the role of agency account management
* Phil's top advice for you if you are starting out in your career in account management.....

.....and lots more nuggets of wisdom and reflection from years of experience so this is one not to miss.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Phil Lancaster has worked his entire career in agency account management.

He's worked for some of the most successful agency holding companies such as The Lowe Group and WPP where he lead global account management teams and held the role of Global Business Director for brands such as Jaguar Land Rover, Reckitt Benckiser, Bayer and Bank of America.

He has a wealth of experience working with clients at the board level and believes strongly that agency account managers need to have a relationship with the C-Suite in a client company.

Other points we discuss are:

* The value of the role of account management for both agencies and client (this has been debated recently in an IPA report)
* One of the most important ways an agency account manager can save the client money
* How account managers can position themselves as trusted advisors rather than order takers
* Where agency account managers get client management wrong
* Why C-Suite relationship building is essential
* Advice for agency account managers to strengthen relationships amidst current remote working conditions
* Phil's thoughts on how the agency landscape is changing and the future of the role of agency account management
* Phil's top advice for you if you are starting out in your career in account management.....

.....and lots more nuggets of wisdom and reflection from years of experience so this is one not to miss.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>account manager creative agency</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>How to sell to existing and prospective clients, with Marcus Cauchi</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/x28x71vn</link>
      <itunes:title>How to sell to existing and prospective clients, with Marcus Cauchi</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>3</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">x60mnlz1</guid>
      <description>Marcus Cauchi is probably one of the most well known salesman and sales trainers in the UK.

I was fortunate enough to be trained by Marcus in the Sandler selling methodology and meeting him changed the course of my career as I suddenly realised selling skills could have been hugely beneficial when I started out in advertising in the 1990s.

In this episode, Marcus shares with us:

* What agencies need to do to win new business
* The metrics he uses to evaluate a new business team's effectiveness
* Why asking questions to gather information is a waste of yours and your client's time
* How agencies can manage the handover from their new business to account management team
* How understanding human psychology can aid us in selling
* The most overlooked area of account expansion agencies miss
* The three myths agencies have bought into about selling....

....and so many more nuggets of selling wisdom, you'll want to grab and pen and make some notes.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Welcome to the Creative Agency Account Manager Podcast with me, Jenny Plant, from Account Management Skills Training. I'm on a mission to help those in agency client service keep and grow their existing relationships, so their agency business can thrive.</strong></div><div><br></div><div>Welcome to Episode three of the Creative Agency Account Manager podcast. I'm honoured to have a very, very well known salesman and sales trainer in the UK joining me today. My friend Marcus. I was lucky enough to be trained by Marcus when I was at Publicis, and he was actually the one that inspired me to set up Account Management Skills training to provide agency account managers with selling skills. Now, in this episode, Marcus shares some absolute gold for both agency account managers expanding the business but also for those in agency new business. I really enjoyed this discussion. Marcus does not hold back when it comes to how he feels. Agencies need to up their game when it comes to professional selling and no one's ever going to accuse Marcus of being a shrinking violet when it comes to speaking his mind. He's going to share with us the key to being successful in sales and the essential things you have to do when looking to expand the business. What not to do at the point of contract renewal, if you want to avoid a bid situation, what you should be tracking and measuring in your new business activities and the cure for a weak and empty pipeline where the area of really organic growth comes from, and why very few agencies recognise it. And what the transition looks like when your new business person hands over to the account management team. He's going to share loads more tips, loads, more advice and words of wisdom. He's even going to share with us the top 10 books he recommends every agency account manager should be reading. So I hope you enjoy this episode.</div><div><br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> So today I'm delighted to speak to probably the most well known salesman and sales trainer in the UK, Marcus Cauchi, who I also had the pleasure of being coached by in 2010, which you probably don't do anymore, Marcus, do you?</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Marcus:</strong> I do. But there's a twist.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny</strong>: Okay, because you're far too important to do one on ones, I'm sure.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Marcus</strong>: Love doing one on ones.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny: </strong>But you fundamentally changed my career. And you were the most inspiring person I've ever met in my career. So I'm delighted this morning. And he's also happens to be the author of the book Making Channel Sales Work, who I'm holding a picture of now, and also the host of two fantastic podcasts, the Inquisitor podcast, which if you are in sales, or in the business of sales, or you're a business leader, then I highly recommend you read because it's like a master class in selling, frankly. And also a newer podcast called Scale Ups and Hypergrowth, where he interviews leaders of disruptive tech companies about how they reach massive scale and hyper growth.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Marcus</strong>: Without losing control,&nbsp; is the important bit in that. Most companies that scale fast so you know, hit the edge of a cliff and then fall off it. They don't go over. And the important thing about scale is that you can sustain it so that you end up creating a long lived business with customers for life.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny: </strong>Well, I've been following your journey and I listened to the podcast and you've had some really, really high level people on there. It's been really impressive. How do you manage that?</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Marcus: </strong>Well, just by asking, they’re incredibly generous. But I've learned so much from those podcasts, you could not even begin to imagine.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> I honestly every time you ask a question, I think I was nervous about asking you on this podcast because I thought I'm not going to be able to reach that level of questioning. But listen, tell me, give us a bit of a short intro anything that I missed out on just for the audience.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Marcus:</strong> I've been selling for 35 years, been with a company called Sandler for the last 17 years, and just about to embark on a new journey. So I've got some really exciting plans ahead. And the podcasts are really an opportunity for me to learn from the best in the world. And that's working out really nicely. And got married, three kids, worked in probably about 450 - 500 different segments of the market. And that range has been really useful, because what I've discovered is that in a specialist field, people who come with a broad range of experience and they have exercise creativity tend to be far more successful. So what I've found is that with minimal knowledge about what&nbsp; the product is, but an understanding of their customer, the kind of problems they have, the kind of better future they're looking for, I'm able to help people. So my typical client will grow three, four or 500% in a year, if they apply what I teach. And what I've seen is people who were on their last leg in sales, suddenly become top performers. And so, I think people who, if you find their motivation, and you understand what drives them, and they're willing to be helped, then pretty much anybody can be helped. But it does require the willingness, not just the ability, and I think what you have is a dearth in sales management skill. Sandler did a study in January, it came out and found that only 6% of sales managers were actually fit for purpose. And last year, only 44% of individual reps hit quota, and only 13% of teams hit quota. So that gives you an indication of just how far we have to go. And if you ran a finance team, or an engineering team, with those sorts of results, I think you'd have a very short tenure.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> There's no doubt that your skills of helping people grow their businesses and get better at selling are so spot on. I mean, I've watched it myself. I've experienced it myself. But just going back one step, you mentioned that you're on a new journey. Is there anything that you can share right now?</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Marcus:</strong> Nope. I'll tell you offline.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Okay, cool. So basically, Mark my audience are creative agency account managers, so they're less about landing the business, they're more about expanding the business. So for those who perhaps don't have any sales training, they haven't got a background in any sort of techniques or strategy. Can you talk a bit about where the hell they should start?</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Marcus: </strong>Yeah, you should speak to your customers, speak to your clients, and find out what it is they're trying to do and speak across their organisation. The problem with so many creative agencies, is they're fixated on winning the pitch, and then they're fixated on not being kicked out. You know, I remember learning from you. This one choice turn of phrase, which is you're never more than three years from being fired by a client. And so that was from your days at Publicis.. And the reality is, there's no need for that if you develop two skills, listening and questioning. I've never listened my way out of a sale. I've talked my way out of plenty. And most people when they're asking questions are asking questions to gather information to gain understanding if they're slightly better, but the best questions are the ones that deliver insight. And this is where people go horrifically wrong because they don't prepare. They turn up and they prepare the pitch. But the pitch is broadcast. It's not collecting useful insight. It's not gathering the quality information. By the time you've turned up, you should already know most of the answers to the questions you were going to ask. Because you can do WWGS - what would Google say? It's not like that information isn't out in the public domain. And your buyers are very savvy nowadays. They've got the sum total of human knowledge with a few clicks of a mouse available to them, so they've done a lot of their research, and they're familiar, I think with their symptoms, but they're not necessarily au fait with the cause of their problems. And it's your job to get beyond that. Because if you are making this initial sale, your job is to beat the status quo. 60% of buying cycles end up with the incumbent solution, whether it's homegrown or another agency, of the 40%, 74% of those will go to the company that displaces their current preferences, helps them recognise what the cost of staying stuck will be. Creates enough points of difference. And this isn't about the product, necessarily. It's about what matters to the customer, and creates enough white space between you and the competition and the incumbent. And most importantly here is being able to allay their anticipated fear of regret and blame. And that's how you win business. To keep it, what you need to do is not introduce the shiny new object at the point of renewal. If you introduce that concept at the point of renewal, you almost guarantee it will go to a bid. Now, the actual win rate on buy cycles that get started and then end up in a bid is 2.6%. Very few agencies, very few vendors take the time to actually track and measure how many opportunities they engage in. And then how many of those actually resist in business, and when you consider the cost of pursuit, which is massive, you know, I don't know, what your audiences are made up of whether they're small, medium, or large agencies, but in large agencies, you know, 20-30 people might be involved for two weeks. Now, when you think about these people being billed out at 500 to a grand a day, that's a shitload of money - the technical term! And the problem is if they win one in four of those that they get to pitch, then chances are, they are going to end up eating into their profits, but they sink it into cost of doing business. Well, it shouldn't be a cost of doing business. That's just a lack of imagination. And if your imagination’s out of focus, your eyes won't see. And most of the time, we're steeped in tradition. This is the way we've always done it. It boils down to and I'll eventually stop ranting. But it boils down to sellers not understanding their rights.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> There's so much that I want to dive into there, but just to get stepping back to the questioning. I don't know if you remember this, but when I first met you, you came into the Publicis office, and I was thrilled that I was gonna get my own coach. But within 20 minutes, I was in tears. Do you remember that?</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Marcus:</strong> That’s the usual reaction, and it’s not just women. In my training centre I’ve always had boxes of tissues for just that reason.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny: </strong>But what I realised afterwards was that you were doing a fantastic job of pain discovery on me. And like you said, I at the time in my role as general manager, who ultimately the buck stopped with me in terms of the business. I understood my symptoms, but I didn't understand my cause. And what you did was have a conversation with me, not about you, not about what you could do. In fact, I know I knew nothing about you. You were doing all the listening and asking questions, and I was just pouring out and what you managed to do was make me realise what I didn't have in place. And for me that was so powerful, and transport transformative. So this skill of asking the questions in the right way is so it takes practice, doesn't it? It's not something you can acquire overnight.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Marcus: </strong>Like any skill that's worth acquiring, it takes time, practice ,reinforcement, you have to fail. But the most important skill of all of those is listening. And listening is a whole body experience. It's not something you just do with your ears. You do it with your eyes, with your gut. You pay attention to how the person is responding, not just the words. I'm having a row with my former associate, because he's a huge Trump supporter. And he's justifying and defending the Draino scenario because he's using the literal words. Whereas when you look at the rapper, the context in which that happened, it was fairly clear, he wasn't suggesting for a second, that this might be something useful to explore. He genuinely believed that you could inject Draino into people and it would kill the virus. You could see that from the body language, the context of everything that went on around him. And the slightly vacant and dumb look on him and the poor medical director who is shrinking into her shoulders. So, you know, the reality is that the words themselves convey only part of the meaning. And when you're meeting with a prospect, your intent must be right. So the first two questions you must be able to answer yes are, can I help? And if I can, am I the right person to help? Because if you're not, get the hell out of dodge as quickly as possible. Do them a favour, do you a favour, save everyone time. And now the problem there is that so often we have a weak or empty pipeline. So we need every deal. And the cure is prospect consistently, little enough and every day. So that eventually, and you end up with a sales funnel. Well, there are four things that I always get people to measure. And the first one is daily unique, effective conversations with prospects. In the agency business, five to seven a day is probably more than adequate. If you have five to seven, where you make the call, you get past the gatekeeper, you get through to the decision maker, and you engage in conversation around their pain with a contract that says at the end of this conversation, you will either invite me in or you'll not. And we'll part friends. And if you do five to seven of those a day, then chances are you will fill the top of the hopper. Second thing is the velocity, and the velocity with which opportunities go through your funnel. Now, the problem is that often you end up and this is the non PC version, you end up with either a Dolly Parton or Kim Kardashian pipeline. And on them the bulges are in the right place, but in your pipeline though, they’re in the wrong place. And because your funnel should really look like a thong, it shouldn't look like a baggy old pair of grey granny knickers, which is just bulging with stuff that isn’t moving, you don't really know where you are, and a load of non prospects. That kind of sales funnel is built on hope and hope is a shitty strategy. Now what it should look like is wide at the top with lots of opportunity, and you're filtering and disqualifying, and disqualifying and disqualifying, and all the good stuff should be in the gusset. And there, you're looking for three to five times more at the qualified moving to closable stage, than you need to hit your quota. So if you have a million dollar quota, you need 3 million to 5 million at the qualified moving to closable stage. And within seven months, it should be three times, within 12 months, it should be five times. Now if you have five times as much at that stage in the hopper at that stage, then you have choice and you prospect for choice. The other thing that I'm looking at is the conversion rate of first to second meetings. When you consider the cost of acquiring a lead, the cost of pursuit and you consider that seven out of eight first meetings did not result in a second meeting on average, that is a crashing waste. So you need to rehearse or you need to plan, then you need to rehearse. My rule of thumb is for every minute you're in front of the prospect, you need three minutes of rehearsal time. And especially when you're in an account management role, you need to rehearse and prepare. You need to have a cadence of accountability, you need to have regular contact with your customers, or your clients.And these would vary from maybe fortnightly calls with different people in the organisation, not just the immediate buyer, but the people who are affected by the work that you do - senior leadership, marketing, operations, sales, legal, finance, all these different departments, you need to engage with them because they're a business and they are a system and if you change one thing, then it affects other parts. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> On that point you mentioned before because I can imagine someone's listening to this as an account manager. And first of all, one of the things they always say is many account managers in creative agencies have like a dual role. Half of it is kind of project management, essentially. And the other half is actually where they're tasked with growing an account and developing relationships. Now, when you say, look, you've got all of these opportunities to expand your relationship building within the same client company, finance, procurement, etc. You said earlier on about having their rights, you know, where's the confidence level on how do I even start that conversation? Why would they want to talk to me, kind of thing?</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Marcus:</strong> Well, first of all, the most important relationship you have is the one with yourself. And this is your self concept, you will only perform to the level that your self concept will allow. So if you were to rate yourself on a scale of one to 10 in terms of your role, you might give yourself a seven. And on a good day, you'll be a nine and on a bad day, you'll be a five. Okay? And you average around the seven mark. However, role and identity are very different. Role is what you do, your functions. Identity is who you are. Now, if you cannot look yourself in the mirror and be proud of the person that you are, then you're going to have a problem. If you run negative scripts, like who am I to speak to the chief executive? Who am I? You know, I'm just an account manager, or an account director. So what? . And these are people who have problems that you are the expert in helping to fix. If you don't see yourself as having equal business stature, then you've automatically given away your power and you've created this disparity. So you've turned it into a parent child relationship, and what you need is adult to adult. You need two grownups meeting at the table to try and resolve problem. And what you want them to do is step out of the goal. And it's both you and them kicking into an open goal against their problem, you need to be partners. Now partners help each other get better. And so another right that you have is to establish very clearly upfront, what the terms of engagement are, how you escalate, how you will hold one another to account. And we use a tool called the client centric satisfaction tool. And it lists a number of areas that we are in control of, but directly affect the customer's experience. And we get them to pick five of those, and every quarter, we are held to account, our feet are put in the fire until they're good and crispy, and they're allowed to tell us the truth and we're allowed to tell them the truth, because we hold them to account as well. But the problem is that because agencies have historically bought into three really awful lies -&nbsp; The customer is king. The buyer is always right. And the man with the gold makes the rules. Okay, let's deal with them. First of all the customer is not king. The customer is never more or less than your equal. The buyer is not always right. But when they're wrong, it's often your fault. And, the man with the gold has the commodity, which is cash in 2010 in the depths of the last recession, tramps had cash, you know that that must give an indication of just how ubiquitous cash is. Today $5 trillion is going through the global economy just today. Okay, so it's not that there isn't money around. People want to spend it on something other than what you're selling, because you've been outsold by their internal narrative, or by something else, by a competitor by the status quo. You've been outsold. And so the responsibility comes on to us. And if we don't understand that, we have the right to do business with the right kind of people, we have the right to say no, we have the right to equal business stature. We have the right to have fun. We have the right to lunch once we've earned it. There is no such thing as a free lunch. This is tough. And account management is a really difficult job. But it's simple. You have to do the basics well consistently over time and mean it, but very few people do. I remember working with one agency years back, and one of the two founders kept blathering on about being creative. And no one buys creative. They want to sell more shit, okay. If your advertising is boring, but it works, who cares? And the fact that you've got lots of awards doesn't mean that you've actually helped them sell anything, because let's face it, agencies with awards generally bribe the publication to get them.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> So you talked about something earlier on that I want to go back to, because this for me was probably the biggest powerful element of the Sandler Training System, which is transactional analysis. And actually, it's about your own internal internal state and how you react in the moment, because we're talking about people to people relationships, aren't we? So can you talk a little bit more about transactional analysis. You referred earlier about being in an adult to adult state. And how it relates to sales selling specifically, from an account management point of view?</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Marcus: </strong>Of all the psychological models or methods I've come across TA, transaction analysis, seems to be the one that works universally. And it's unfussy. And there's a really good book called <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Run-Your-Own-Life/dp/0448123606">‘How to run your own life’</a> by a guy called Jut Meininger which I urge everybody to get a copy of it. Now it's only available second hand, it'll cost you over 100 quid. But it's one of the best introductions to TA but also to life. It's all about a martian who pops down to earth, and then discovers just how screwed up we are. Now, another good book that's really worth a read is TA for kids (and adults) by Alvin Freed. And TA is essentially understanding how we engage in communication transactions, and how we play games with one another. Now this is the negative side of it. And this can be described on three points of a triangle. It's called the drama triangle and ego thrives on drama, so bear that in mind, when I described the three positions. If you imagine an equilateral triangle on its sharp point, with the victim at the bottom. The voice of the victim goes, ‘It’s not fair, this always happens, you always do this to me, save me’. Now lots of customers play the role of victim ‘poor me my wooden leg, you know I don't have any budget times are tough’. Yeah. And that encourages two other types. So if you imagine on the top left hand corner, you've got the persecutor. Now the persecutor comes with a jabby index finger, ‘you piece of shit, you always, you never, you’re such a disappointment’. You ad people, you branding people, you PR people, you're all the same. Yeah, you make these promises and you do nothing. It comes with the jabby index finger and the pronoun ‘you’ and diminishes you an identity level. And then you have the rescuer. Now rescuing is helping without boundaries or permission. Rescuing is molly coddling, it's permissive and allows people to take the piss and allows people to bully them. And, what it also becomes is micromanaging. When we first engaged you were quite a rescuer, you're trying to rescue your people, you're trying to rescue your clients. And the problem with that is that you end up run ragged. You get upward delegation, you create learned helplessness around you. Persecutors create the conditions for the minimum amount of work and effort necessary to not be noticed. You don't put your head above the parapet because it will get shot down, and you try not to be noticed by being average that creates mediocrity. Which again, was your previous bosses in those companies without wanting to get you into trouble?&nbsp; So they used to be very persecuting and there was this, you know, what's happening about this, what's happening about that and you will get sucked into all these bids that were pointless, because they were confusing activity with meaningful action. Okay, now anytime you hear anyone playing the role of the victim, the persecutor or the rescuer, that's someone's ego being hooked. Now, that means that you tend to be stuck in the past or worrying about the future. And it creates a blame culture. And there's a lot of prejudice, pre judgement. Not only you've been judged and judging yourself, but there's excuse making, there's blaming. It's where agencies create these fiefdoms and stovepipes and you end up with political infighting. It's tough enough, what the hell are you doing fighting amongst yourselves, you should all be aligned working with the customer against their competition. And that way you're serving them and the individuals within those accounts, they have problems that they need help with, and it's your job if you can't help them to find someone who can and become a partner, so that you're raising the tide and raising all boats. Now, my favourite philosopher Bruce Lee was asked what's the best way to avoid a punch? And he said be somewhere else. So instead of this drama triangle, victim, persecutor, rescuer, go what I call below the line and this is a triangle on its stable flat base. And, at the bottom left, you have vulnerability, you need to be vulnerable. The word vulnerable comes from the Latin vol nebulous, which means to make yourself wounded, to put yourself in harm's way and do it anyway. It's an act of courage, vulnerability is probably the pinnacle of courage. And then you have on the top, nurturing and assess, nurturing and empathic. So you nurture these people, but so you empathise without falling into buyer empathy. So buyer empathy is where you say, you know, if it were me, I'd probably want a discount. That's bad, ok, but if you can empathise with the pressure that they're under, the stress that they're feeling, the worry that they're experiencing, and then you have a fighting chance of actually doing something to help them because you're staying in your rational mind. And also, then bottom right, is being assertive. Now, that doesn't mean being aggressive. It means establishing clear boundaries and clear expectations. And this is where things go wrong very often. Ambiguity is the mother of all fubars. And this is where ambiguity at the top of your organisation leads to politics at the bottom. So ambiguity is another example of what happens in that drama triangle, whereas within the winner's triangle, you are absolutely clear, specific and certain about what both sides have agreed. Everyone knows what their roles are, what their responsibilities are, you know how to escalate. And you know how to confront constructively the problems, and so you're not afraid of conflict. And agencies should be challenging their customers, their clients, they shouldn't be passively taking whatever their crappy brief is. You know a great example of this is one consumer brand that was following the CMOs vision. And bear in mind, the brand is determined by your customers, not by your CMO. And he had this vision that they were an adventure brand. So all of them, media and advertising was geared around people base jumping, and windsurfing and climbing El Capitan and all that crap. But in their biggest market, Hong Kong and China, people saw their brand as an opportunity to go out and be seen in public as being smart and sophisticated. So the minute they got rid of that idiotic message, sales went up 62 million in one quarter.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong>&nbsp; So it's starting with the customer?</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Marcus:</strong> You start with the customer, you need to speak to the customer, you need to listen to the customer. And, again, I do a lot of work in tech where they're fixated with big data. Actually, it's small data that matters in my book. And it's the individual conversations that you're having, Record them, get transcriptions of them, break them down, look for patterns, look for the clues in those small conversations and that small data as to what the customer needs and wants, what they want to know, what they want to be known for, what they want to have happen.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> And the thing is this on the surface, it seems so easy, doesn't it? Listening, actively listening, asking the right question, empathising, but actually in reality, this is my experience. People don't do it that well, like I remember going back to the conversation we had at the beginning was, I really felt heard, I felt understood. You know, within minutes of meeting you, I felt like I'd known you for years. So you obviously were putting all of that in place, to not only build the rapport, but also to make me feel that I actually was being heard and listened to. No one knew actually in my job that at the time, my dad was diagnosed with cancer. Now that added another layer to all of the political bollocks that was going on, you know, at the time. I look back on this and think you came into my life at the right time with the right skill set to help me and it wasn't just empathising. It was about making my business better. Getting all upset now. But going back to, I know that you feel passionate about sales management. And I do too, because actually, when I'm invited in to help account managers, I often realise that actually the problem doesn't lie with the account manager, it lies with the management.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Marcus:</strong> Yeah, a fish rots from the head down, an old Russian proverb. And the pressure that you were under was astronomical, it was heartbreaking to watch as well, because it was utterly unfair. And what you were acting as for the rest of your team was a buffer. Now you were doing a great job of doing that. But it was exceptionally unfair and more often than not, it's because senior management is so fixated on the wrong things. And I put this down to a large extent to the work, their business model, because if you publicly listed and then you have to work towards quarterly reporting, and you have to keep your investors happy, which is not the way to build a long lived sustainable business that has strong fundamentals. And what you end up doing is creating a business that is chasing logos, chasing revenue, not profit, and isn't focused on the long term. They say that they are but the reality is, I mean, get this, depending on your industry, it costs somewhere between six and 21 times more to acquire a new customer than sell to an existing customer. If you're selling to an enterprise, the enterprise actually is a marketplace in and of itself. You have the organic growth, which is sell them something similar but different, more of the same. And then you have grow what you've got. Then you have their supply chain, you have their partner network. And again, most account managers are not really looking at that. It never crosses their mind. But if you ask for referrals into those organisations you can build your pipeline brilliantly. And alumni is another area. You can look at the organic structure of the family, so parent companies, sister companies, subsidiary companies, and all of those and also look at the customers’ customer. And why is it so few salespeople, whatever industry, are spending any time at all either on the supply chain and department network, or the customers’ customer, all of those could just as viably be customers or clients for you.&nbsp; And part of the problem here is that leadership and management is fixated on the numbers. You cannot manage the numbers. The numbers are a byproduct of the behaviour of the inputs. And they're fixated on lagging indicators because by the time the revenue number comes in, you've already hit the iceberg and you’re two thirds of the way to the bottom of the Atlantic. I remember when when we first started working together, having these conversations with you trying to work out, okay, what is it that we need to be seen to be doing versus what we're actually going to do, so that we can get a strong foundation. You focusing on building the pipeline up, making sure prospecting was happening, making sure that you're having the right conversations with the ideal customers, because I remember there was a guy in your sales operations team, whose name sticks in my mind, and he ended up ploughing 3 million pounds worth of pointless pipeline into your business, that you could never win, but you had to go after it because your leadership had this idiotic lottery mentality, which is, you know, you've got to be in it to win it. No, you don't. You only want to be in the ones you can and will win, and you need to disqualify hard. And this is the other thing coming back to our rights. You have the right to say no. And don't go after to companies that are 72% fit your ideal customer only go after the companies that are 100% fit. In fact, my newsletter this month is exactly on this. I'm just finishing it now. And, you know, focus on your ideal customer. But to do that you have to know who your ideal customer is. And be clear about who your ideal customer is not, so you can say no. Don't get involved in those bids and tenders. Don't get involved in those proceeds. Because if they're not absolutely right, they will suck you dry. They'll ask for things that you can't deliver or that will be non core to your core customers. And they'll drag you in with complaints and frustration and they'll suck your leadership and management dry as well. Meanwhile your higher ups are sat there quietly counting the coin, and because they're working everybody to the point where they're burning out. That's crazy.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny: </strong>It was probably one of the most frustrating things for me, once again, we'd started working together was understanding, why are we qualifying, right? Because we didn't qualify, it was saying yes to everything, which obviously has an opportunity cost because it's putting a strain not only on the team, but also on the current clients that you've got back. So it I think I felt very sort of powerless. I mean, for agency owners that are in control of the qualifying process, I think the other downside is, if your business isn't strong, you don't have a strong cash flow. Don't forget, most of us are pricing on hours, number of hours rather than outputs or outcomes. So again, from a pricing perspective, you've got problems. And also from a positioning point of view, like you said before, we don't have a narrow enough focus a lot of the time and therefore you can't charge more. So I think there's lots of elements.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Marcus: </strong>&nbsp;In the absence of value, the conversation will descend to cost very quickly. And agencies, media companies across the board, whether you're web development, whether you're SEO, whether you're advertising, whether you're branding, whatever it happens to be digital, the conversation invariably turns into hourly rate in a very short space of time. And I remember I was working with our colleague Mike, and he was invited to pitch for a piece of business. And we worked on this response, which was WPP only sells at rate card, to every question when they were in this 19 way bid, 19 people and 19 different agencies, and they ended up winning it. And the point being, they only sold a rate card because it meant that they were in a position to offer the best service, because if you're not scrambling around for profit, because you're under pressure for that one as well, then you don't have to worry about where the next penny is going to come from. If you've got the right customers, you're serving them really well, you're focused on service, not servitude, and you see yourself as equal, then you can challenge them, you can bring your best people to bear. They're not being stretched on seven other bits that they shouldn't be involved in. Your creatives aren't being sucked from pillar to post. There are clear demarcation lines as to how often revisions can happen in order to ensure that the customer doesn't take the piss, because God knows they do. They have to be clear about their thinking and that's your job. That's a sales disability. And, you know, like I said, when the customer’s wrong it's often because it's our fault. We haven't established clear boundaries, we haven't established exactly what is required. And we haven't made clear the process to make sure that they don't flip flop and chop and change. And because I saw that in media all the time, for the last 20 years. I've seen agencies being dragged around by the scruff of the neck and being told, oh, well, why don't we focus on shampoo this week, so we're going to do body wash, and oh, no, we're going to move to toothpaste next, and so nothing ever gets done. And another really important skill is this whole process of contracting. It's agree the beginning, what you both intend to happen by the end, and make sure at the end, that someone is accountable.&nbsp; One individual is responsible, with a date and a time by which they will deliver a certain piece of work or an action. The people who need to be consulted and informed are also identified. You understand who has high, medium or low influence over a decision and also understand the different cast of characters who are involved, so you have ultimate power. So sign off authority, you have decision makers, and there are many decision makers often. In an enterprise, on average, you're going to be somewhere between six and seven influencers and the account coverage is generally very poor. There needs to be someone with chief in their title ideally. Because if you're only dealing with managers they have to defer up for sign off. And you need to make sure that you are looking at the influencers, the recommenders, the specifiers, the technical buyers, the user buyer, the financial buyers, and this is stuff that most agencies do none of. They just go in blindly to take a brief and then come back four weeks later or two weeks later to do a load of free consulting. And then they wonder why their win loss rate is so terrible. And then they blame the customer. It's not the customers fault. You cannot blame prospects for doing something you never said they couldn't do. So tell people you don't get involved in beauty parades and bids, see how they respond and say no three times because if they really want you, then you've got some leverage. If they don't, and you’re just column fodder, which is what most agencies act as. And then all you're doing his free consulting because they're looking for you for the cheapest price. You know, Joe Bloggs up the road for the most innovative ideas and Fred Jones for best service and they give all three of those to their preferred supplier, and they get paid for all of your hard work.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> You've shared so many tips for people responsible for new business in agencies, Marcus this is brilliant, and the benchmark data as well, which is fantastic. And this is professional selling. I'm interested to ask you one question, because it's been coming up quite a lot recently. When in an agency it goes from the new business team to the account management team? What should that transition look like to set the account manager up for success.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Marcus:</strong>&nbsp; First of all, you need to make sure that the relationships are handed over, so introductions need to be made from the new business to the account manager to all the different cast of characters. The expectations need to be documented and a cadence of regular contact needs to be put in place. I would look at a quarterly value review rather than a quarterly business review. Quarterly business review is typically where you turn up with your market stall and you try and pitch something else. A quarterly value review is about holding each other to account. It's about establishing right from the outset what their vision is over the next. 6/ 12/ 18/ 24/ 36/ 60 months and looking at the direction they're trying to take their business so that you can stay ahead of where they are. Making sure that your co developing a plan so if resource is required, identify what those resources will be, when they will be required, what the trigger points are and identify what budget is going to be required in order to be able to recruit them. Make sure that you understand the competitive landscape. So as an account manager with the new business person, what I would do is sit with the customer and spend time understanding the impact of their various competition. So not only your competition you need to understand, but I think you also need to understand your customers’ competition. If you understand the customers’ competition, then you can identify a whole raft of stuff. So, for example, you can identify what the facts are, what their products and services are, how well they perform, which markets they operate in, who their people are, how they're positioned, what their value proposition and pricing is, their accounts, what their strengths and weaknesses are, what their plans are. The question I always like to get an answer to is what is the weakness in their strength? Because if we can exploit that weakness in a competitive strength, then it allows us to start creating campaigns and messaging to exploit it. Now, the beauty of that is that you can start taking market share away from the competition, which is where you should be taking it from. And helping your customer to do that makes them look good. Your job is to always help make your customer the hero of your story. Stop talking about you, your agency, your past glories. No one cares. That's like showing photos of your ugly children to strangers. Focus on how you helped a client achieve their strategic objective. How they benefited from it, what they learned, what journey they went through, the ups and the downs. Because I think that makes a story real. Make sure that you are very clear in your messaging, how it serves them and that handover piece needs to encompass a lot of that. You need to understand where they've come from, where they are and where they're headed, and that needs to be part of the hand over. You need to have a regular cadence of meetings, typically every quarter where you get together on and you work out what's working, what isn't, what you need to do more of what you need to do less off. Every fortnight I would have what's called a re-con call with someone within the organisation as the account manager. Have them remind you what you agreed to do between now and the last time you spoke, or remember what it was like before you came in. Then what are you not doing? Well, what are they not happy with? Because you don't want mole hills to turn into mountains and if they've identified something, then give a commitment as to when you will come back with action. It's like when you go to a hotel and they ask you for feedback and you never hear back from them as to what they've done with that feedback. That's frustrating. So that's why you end up with 0.3% response rate. And, you know, that kind of response rate is awful. Who on earth would throw that much shit at the wall and hope just a fraction would stick. Customer surveys again be really careful about customer surveys because they are built in with intrinsic bias from the questions and often the customer survey questions are intended to try and make you look good. It's free form conversation, spontaneous conversation with customers that's got the really rich, useful data. Once you've identified the negatives and you've given a commitment when you'll come back and what action you will take, then ask what's changed for the better because that allows them to warm up and it sets you up for the next thing, which is where the opportunities for us to help you over the next 3/6/9/12 months. Because this is where they will tell you how to sell to them and what to sell to them and what are the next steps. So you always have to agree the next steps. Now, other things that you should be doing at the handover stage, you should make sure that you've done your research. You need to understand where this company is and the pressure that they're under. So two great sources of information, the annual reporting accounts section 1A is made up of all the blue sky bullshit the CEO and Chairman are peddling to their investors. Section 1B is the really interesting bit. This is all the caveats as to why Section 1A is full of lies. Now the other thing that you can do if you're selling to a publicly listed company is listen to the quarterly analyst calls where they're being taken through the gristmill and being held to account by the markets. You can get hold of those transcriptions and that will then tell you where you need to focus your attention to help them at a strategic level and stop selling advertising. Stop selling media.&nbsp; All media is is a means by which they can get their work done or their job done and achieve their goals. You can probably save them money. I can save the money -&nbsp; that puts us in competition. You can help them be more effective, more efficient, acquire new customers to grow, open new markets and those are the things that they care about.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> It’s about helping them with solving their business problems. We're selling business outcomes and we're helping them not only from the business perspective, but from the personal perspective. Marcus, this has been absolute gold. You've just shared tip after tip after tip. I've been scribbling notes. I know that everyone's gonna take loads of value from this. You mentioned a few book recommendations, but apart from your podcast, obviously, to be listening to, are there any other book recommendations, particularly for account managers that you can think of? Because I know you're an avid reader.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Marcus:</strong> <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Just-Listen-Discover-Getting-Absolutely/dp/0814436471/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&amp;keywords=just+listen&amp;qid=1599150275&amp;s=books&amp;sr=1-1">‘Just listen’</a> by Mark Goulston is a must read. I mean, if you just park the species, you should read it. <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Talking-Crazy-Irrational-Impossible-People/dp/B014HXDD2W/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&amp;keywords=talking+to+crazy&amp;qid=1599150317&amp;s=books&amp;sr=1-1">‘Talking to Crazy’</a> by him is also very good. And that's really dealing with your own demons first, because, as Philip Larkin put it, you know, they fuck you up your Mum and Dad they don't mean to, but they do. They fill you with the faults they had and add some extra just for you.&nbsp; And everybody that you know is a sick puppy, so understand that. I would read <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Essentialism-Disciplined-Pursuit-Takeaways-Analysis/dp/B0172D0KKC/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1BS2C1RHM4MTX&amp;dchild=1&amp;keywords=essentialism+by+greg+mckeown&amp;qid=1599150367&amp;s=audible&amp;sprefix=essent%2Caudible%2C384&amp;sr=1-2">'Essentialism' </a>by Greg McEeown and the basic premise there is do less, but better on purpose. What you say no to is more important what you say yes to you. I would also read<a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Asking-Questions-Sandler-Antonio-Garrido-ebook/dp/B073ZJS5DW/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&amp;keywords=asking+questions&amp;qid=1599150448&amp;sr=8-2"> ‘Asking Questions’</a> by Antonio Garrido.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Oh my God, that is just such a good read.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Marcus: </strong>I mean, it's a packed full of useful clickable technique. Quite fun. Jodi Williamson's <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Contrarian-Salesperson-Parable-Non-Traditional-Selling-ebook/dp/B01INZZ7E2/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&amp;keywords=the+contrarian+sale&amp;qid=1599150507&amp;sr=8-3">‘The Contrarian Salesman’</a> is a really good one as well. That's a little parable about the journey someone goes through to move away from the free consulting model to actually selling. <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sales-Coachs-Playbook-Breaking-Performance-ebook/dp/B01E0L8EMA/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3M429EPP9DOHC&amp;dchild=1&amp;keywords=the+sales+coachs+playbook&amp;qid=1599150548&amp;sprefix=the+sales+coach%2Caps%2C154&amp;sr=8-2">‘The Sales Coach's Playbook’</a> by Bill Bartlett is a must read.</div><div><br></div><div>I would also suggest <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Road-Less-Stupid-Keith-Cunningham/dp/0984659269/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3I9ZF8VMACNV8&amp;dchild=1&amp;keywords=the+road+less+stupid+keith+cunningham&amp;qid=1599150598&amp;sprefix=the+road+less+st%2Caps%2C157&amp;sr=8-1">‘The Road Less Stupid’</a> by Keith Cunningham which a fabulous read for managers and leaders. <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Right-Use-Power-Stewardship-Leadership/dp/B002SQ34Y8/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&amp;keywords=the+right+use+of+power+peter+block&amp;qid=1599150671&amp;sr=8-1">‘The Right Use of Power’</a> by Peter Block is a fabulous read as well. Just trying to think I've been reading so many. Oh, <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Context-Marketing-Revolution-Motivate-Infinite/dp/163369402X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=38NL3GPDEYZ8D&amp;dchild=1&amp;keywords=the+context+marketing+revolution&amp;qid=1599150726&amp;sprefix=the+context+ma%2Caudible%2C169&amp;sr=8-1">‘The Context Marketing Revolution’</a> by Matthew Sweezey and <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Marketing-Rebellion-Most-Human-Company/dp/0578419866/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&amp;keywords=marketing+rebellion&amp;qid=1599150784&amp;sr=8-1">‘Marketing Rebellion’ </a>by Mark Schaefer because they all talk about humanising your marketing and personalising it. And the really important thing, let me give you a useful actionable item, ok? I have a framework for getting testimonials that tell the story that I want. Okay, so this is a testimonial template. Question one. Who are you and who do you serve? Question two. What problem initially caused you to invite me in to help you? Question three. What results have you had? I want pounds, shillings, pence percentages all that stuff - hard and soft. Okay. What initial reservations did you have about working with me? Because that helps me neutralise objections. What surprised you about working with me? Was it fun and would you recommend me? And why? If you look through my length in profile, you will see well over 100 testimonials that followed that framework and they’re that long, they’re a full page.</div><div><br></div><div>Jenny:&nbsp; I mean, that's so golden for anyone listening because they're not asking for testimonials or referrals. But when you do, having them structured that way obviously is a lot easier. I mean, I love a format or a framework anyway, but that's going to be so much easier for people looking to work with you, isn't it?</div><div><br></div><div>Marcus: Well, people struggle to answer a statement, but they find it really easy to answer a question. Your brain is always looking for the answers to questions and you never suffered from writer's block. I mean, another good tip, if you're producing content. Virtually all my business comes from either content production, which makes the customer the hero and puts them in the story and enters the conversation they're already having. It comes through personal referral and warm introduction/ recommendation. And it comes from actually people seeing me do what I do either on podcasts or live events, that kind of thing or joining one of my classes. Now, if they see that, then they can experience it for themselves. They make up their own mind. The reality is that the most powerful content is the stuff that my customers write about me that's golden. I mean, the flurry of enquiries that come off the back of that, they are worth 10 times, 20 times a cold lead.</div><div><br></div><div>Jenny: I absolutely agree. This has been so valuable not just for account managers, but also for agency leaders, owners. Because you're absolutely right. I mean, if you're not following Marcus, you should, because what he shared today has just been fantastic. But I know how active you are on LinkedIn and how much value you share for free markets. So to that point, where can people reach you? And who do you want to reach you as well?</div><div><br></div><div>Marcus: Well, the people that I'm really interested in are owners and founders who want to grow their business by 200% per annum compound over a 5 to 8 year period. And they're not afraid of breaking the mould, breaking the rules. They need to be ambitious. They need to be honest. They need to be willing to take direction and they need to understand the difference between risking and sacrificing. Risking is going from lower to higher value with the possibility you might lose some or all&nbsp; of what you've got. Sacrificing is going from high to low value, and there's no upside and most people confuse the two, and they spend their life in sacrifice. So what I'm looking for in particular are tech companies in the 10 to 50 million mark who are really looking to expand and they want to grow but build a really profitable, sustainable business with a long lived future where they secure lifetime customers. Where they are in control and they don't have to give away either equity or power to private equity or venture capital, who are the devil incarnate.</div><div><br></div><div>Jenny: Brilliant. And if anyone wants to follow Marcus on LinkedIn, you spell Cauchi C A U C H I and any other email address or any contact details?</div><div><br></div><div>Marcus: I’m on Twitter as <a href="https://twitter.com/The_Inquisitor">@THE_Inquisitor</a>. You can catch me on Facebook, although generally that's me just ranting and the Inquisitor podcast which is <a href="http://marcuscauchi.podbean.com/">marcuscauchi.podbean.com</a>. It's on Apple and Spotify and all other platforms on. If you really want to scale up, then the <a href="https://scaleupsandhypergrowth.podbean.com/">scaleupsandhypergrowth.podbean.com</a> also available on Apple and Spotify.</div><div><br></div><div>Jenny: Marcus, this has been fantastic. Thank you so so much for joining me. I know that everyone that listens to this is going to take loads of notes there’s loads of gold there. Thank you so much for sharing so much value.</div><div><br></div><div>Marcus: The other thing is I’ve started a newsletter aptly called <a href="http://eepurl.com/gu2Yd1">The Grumblers</a>, so I'll send you the link for that as well. If anyone wants to get in time to get in touch.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Jenny: You’re always approachable. Thank you so much. Marcus, this has been amazing. You are amazing. You are a legend.</div><div><br></div><div>Marcus: Thank you. You are too.</div><div><br></div><div>I hope you enjoyed my chat with Marcus. And if you don't want to miss an episode, please subscribe to the podcast. If you like it, I'd love it if you would leave a review. And if you don't love it, I would like to give me some feedback. Please send me an email to <a href="mailto:jenny@accountmanagementskills.com">jenny@accountmanagementskills.com</a>. Thanks for listening.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2020 11:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/lw9yq65w.mp3" length="66126283" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/a7012250-ec3f-11ea-bef5-1d9df7590a2c/a7012380-ec3f-11ea-9c03-7119ea76e8e6.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>3306</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>Marcus Cauchi is probably one of the most well known salesman and sales trainers in the UK.

I was fortunate enough to be trained by Marcus in the Sandler selling methodology and meeting him changed the course of my career as I suddenly realised selling skills could have been hugely beneficial when I started out in advertising in the 1990s.

In this episode, Marcus shares with us:

* What agencies need to do to win new business
* The metrics he uses to evaluate a new business team's effectiveness
* Why asking questions to gather information is a waste of yours and your client's time
* How agencies can manage the handover from their new business to account management team
* How understanding human psychology can aid us in selling
* The most overlooked area of account expansion agencies miss
* The three myths agencies have bought into about selling....

....and so many more nuggets of selling wisdom, you'll want to grab and pen and make some notes.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>Marcus Cauchi is probably one of the most well known salesman and sales trainers in the UK.

I was fortunate enough to be trained by Marcus in the Sandler selling methodology and meeting him changed the course of my career as I suddenly realised selling skills could have been hugely beneficial when I started out in advertising in the 1990s.

In this episode, Marcus shares with us:

* What agencies need to do to win new business
* The metrics he uses to evaluate a new business team's effectiveness
* Why asking questions to gather information is a waste of yours and your client's time
* How agencies can manage the handover from their new business to account management team
* How understanding human psychology can aid us in selling
* The most overlooked area of account expansion agencies miss
* The three myths agencies have bought into about selling....

....and so many more nuggets of selling wisdom, you'll want to grab and pen and make some notes.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>selling skills, account manager, account management</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Why you need a relationship with marketing procurement, with Tina Fegent</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/xvnw5lyn</link>
      <itunes:title>Why you need a relationship with marketing procurement, with Tina Fegent</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>2</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">m81xx851</guid>
      <description>In this episode, Tina Fegent, marketing procurement consultant with almost 30 years experience shares tips for what procurement want from agencies and specifically agency account management.

Tina has worked both client side for companies such as Orange and agency side in the role of Commercial Director so really understands what works and doesn't work when it comes to creating and developing relationships with the procurement team.

In this episode Tina shares;

- The most common complaint she hears from clients about agency account management
- What great account management looks like for her
- Why developing relationships with procurement is good for agency business
- Ideas you can try right now for how to engage with procurement
- What to avoid when pitching
- What management consultancies are doing really well that agencies should be doing more of....

....and lots more!

So grab a pen and get ready to take some notes because she shares some golden nuggets of wisdom for you.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Welcome to the Creative Agency Account Manager Podcast with me, Jenny Plant from Account Management Skills Training. I'm on a mission to help those in agency client service keep andgrow their existing relationships. So their agency business can thrive<br></strong><br>Welcome to Episode two of the Creative Agency Account Manager podcast. Today I'm thrilled to speak to Tina Fegent. Tina is a marketing procurement consultant with 28 years experience, and the great thing about Tina is she's worked for agencies but also for clients, and she's going to tell you a bit about that. <br><br>There are loads of golden nuggets for you in this episode, and I really hope you enjoy it. She's going to cover what she sees has changed in terms of procuring services with remote pitching, and some of the trends she's seeing. We're recording this in August 2020. She going to share her views on the latest IPA report about the future of&nbsp; account management. She's going to talk to us about why you need to be developing relationships with procurement and some brilliant insider tips on what to do during a pitch. <br><br>And there were loads more nuggets of wisdom that she shares with us. So grab a pen and take some notes, because I think it's really valuable stuff. A side note, there's a bit of background noise in this episode, which I hope is not too distracting. We happened to record it on one of the hottest days of the year in August 2020 and we have Windows open and fans on, so I hope it doesn't distract from the core of this episode, and you come away with some value. <br><br><strong>Jenny:</strong> All right, well, I am thrilled to have as my second guest Tina Fegent, who is a marketing procurement consultant with over 25 years experience and I first met Tina probably a couple of years ago. We had a few coffees together didn't we, but the moment that I remember the most was when we were walking into the IPA conference business conference together like being with a rock star. Everyone was like Tina, Tina, you're so popular.<br><br>So she knows everyone in the industry, and a couple of things that stand out for me before I asked her to introduce herself is she has worked both agency and clients site, so she's got really good understanding of you know how things work on both sides of the fence, which I think is really insightful for us. The second point is, she's very active in the marketing procurement community, and she's sort of got leadership quality. She's always posting articles, she writes for Campaign magazine, so she really shares her voice and lends her voice. So she's very inspiring. I've already listened to a couple of podcasts with her before. Super impressive and, yeah, I'm really excited about getting her views on things and just diving into the interview. So, Tina, welcome.<br><br><strong>Tina</strong>: Thank you, Jenny.<br><br><strong>Jenny:</strong> That's all right. Perhaps you could spend a couple of minutes just introducing yourself - anything that I've missed.<br><br><strong>Tina:</strong> I am honoured to be the second guest on your podcast. Thank you for the kind intro. So yes, I've got over 25 years on this but that makes me sound a bit old if I'm getting toward 30 years. So firstly in marketing procurement, when I worked for Cellnet, I don't if your listeners will know but that is now Telefonica. I got there and, again, for the older generation, the user guides for mobile phones used to be really big and massive. I got there and the advertising agency was buying them.&nbsp; I was, like, from a procurement point of view, you know, can I look at going direct, and it was a 50% saving, so that's why I go into market procurement. And at that time, hardly anybody else was looking at marketing procurement globally. I think the guys at Guinness were, and Natwest were, so yes, I have always been in procurement.&nbsp; I worked for SmithKlineBeecham, Ribena vending machines and Lucozade. Then I went to Orange. I had a fantastic time there, I still have my Orange number and I can't bear to move away from the Orange/EE network.&nbsp; Then I went to with two advertising agencies as a commercial director, so quite an interesting, quite a shock to then work agency-side. I've never worked so hard in my life, but great insight from the point of view as commercial director and I started my own consultancy 14 years ago actually. Actually, to begin with, for agencies but to get involved with clients that could be with CMOs, pitches, could be reviewing the whole agency base, mentoring for procurement people and actually I do a bit of agency work as well, and obviously you and I have worked recently on a client. So looking at tenders, doing trade and stuff like that. I chair our trade body CIPS and I chair the marketing group there.&nbsp; So, yes, I've been doing it for 25 years now.<br><br><strong>Jenny:</strong> It is so impressive. And I think what we forgot to mention, which I was hoping you would, but you were voted one of the most powerful people in advertising. You were the first marketed procurement person to be voted most powerful by Campaign magazine, right?<br><br><strong>Tina:</strong> Yeah, really. I was really touched. 2017 to being included, and I've been in there every year since and I think last year I got 'good egg' rating, so really good from a procurement point of view that the trade press thinks that, actually, and you said, you know, I just spent quite a lot of my time talking about good procurement, you know?<br><br><strong>Jenny:</strong> Well done, honestly. Before I get on to the questions,&nbsp; just something you said there that you were brought in by a couple of agencies to be commercial director. And just for those maybe agency leaders thinking about, is there a need for a commercial director that has a better understanding of procurement? So can you talk a bit about what your role actually was in that commercial director role?<br><br><strong>Tina:</strong> Yeah, I think it's a great question because actually you've got FDs? And, if you've got FDs, why do you need a commercial person? But I think in my two roles I just got a different slant and I think, you know, you are facing procurement more and more as an agency, and I think agency land can be very negative about procurement. They don't want them there. So I think FDs, rightly or wrongly, haven't always got the relevant experience to know how to work procurement and are often more internally focused. So I think my roles were both internal and external when I was agency side. Actually, I've been surprised how there is still quite a lack of procurement people, agency side, but actually, you need to have people that understand the interface with the client side, you know, it's not just about doing fees. It's about doing quarterly commercial reviews , it's being practical on your spend and actually if you've got a client question that sort of stuff, to have someone on the agency side that is attuned to everything that's come from it is a difficult mindset from Finance, so I do think agencies could look to invest in that support not necessarily in a full time role, but I think with an increased level of understanding of procurement, that's what my role was, when I was agency side.<br><br><strong>Jenny:</strong>&nbsp; It's really interesting you say that because I've been thinking about this for a long, long time. Agency leaders who go into a traditional kind of negotiation with procurement. My understanding is procurement people typically are very well versed in negotiation skills. The training is a lot more comprehensive. Is that right?<br><br><strong>Tina:</strong> Yes. I mean, you know, we are trained in procurement, we've all done negotiation training and agencies often haven't. It could be little nuggets, like reading things upside down. You know, we might look at someones notepad and have they got, you know, their rates or 'musn't go lower', things like that. You know, having time out when you're in negotiation, you see the agency person getting redder and redder. We can say 'we'll have time out'. We go away talk about the options. We would have prepared. We would have had two or three scenarios, terms like 'MDO', most desired offer,&nbsp; but it does cut the negotiation process down to like an hour. Yeah. No, I totally agree, Jenny. I think it is an art.<br><br><strong>Jenny:</strong> I think it sounds like it absolutely would be, because the investment that you put into some kind of advice from a procurement specialist would ultimately save you money in the long term, couldn't it? These tiny little things, all of these things add up. Just talking about your procurement services at the moment and the types of consultancy pieces that you've been involved with lately. Obviously, we're recording this mid August 2020. We're in the middle of a pandemic, the Covid 19 situation, we're starting to come out of lock down. Just curious to know what have you seen, if anything, of different trends that are happening recently that maybe as a result of the pandemic have caused I don't know, companies to put a procurement process in place to kind of look at their supply list.<br><br><strong>Tina: </strong>Yeah, I think what I've seen is that procurement has moved up the supply chain, as it were. So I was interviewing for another conference the head of procurement for M&amp;S and he was saying he's now dealing with C Suite on a more regular basis because, and I know listeners are going to hate it, but it was about cost savings. It had to be, you know, because the food part carried on and pushed the fashion side off. But you know, I've found&nbsp; colleagues in banks and FMCG, they've all been really, really busy because I think it has helped cement their role in that they are a key player. I think before we've always had a bit of a chip on our shoulder that you don't often have someone at board level. If you're involved in indirect procurement, these things are not always involved at manufacturing level. Spending direct, so if you work for Diageo, the oats to make the Guinness and the tin cans. Indirect will be marketing, HR, IT services, so obviously marketing is indirect procurement.&nbsp; We're often sometimes not on the board, so I think what's happened coming out of this from a procurement point of view is it's elevated the role and actually a lot of my procurement clients say they've never been so busy. Because people are coming to them. There's been a recapitalisation of suppliers again, the M&amp;S chap was saying that he spent a long time prioritising their suppliers, Tier 1&nbsp; and Tier 2.&nbsp; And then what happens is, at a level above that's pandemic criticial, so for example pest control.&nbsp; It's not a marketing example, but actually, he would never put them as Tie 1 or tier 2 supplier. Of course, now come the pandemic they are now critical. So it's really interesting how they categorise their suppliers. So I think, you know, it's really been elevated in stages. I think it's maybe think about the strategic partnerships. Agencies have responded on the whole really well. There's been a few that I've heard that haven't done as great, you know, taking a month or two to ring up the clients. But on the whole, you know, agencies I think have really stepped in and again we used the word partnership it's a word at procurement we hate and agencies love it, but I think we have seen a lot of partnerships really come to the forefront where those key strategic relationships with the clients that are continuing to invest, or maybe having to cut back but make money work a bit harder because there's obviously not point going on outdoor and cinema when no one's around, I thinkit&nbsp; really bear fruition because I think those were in the trenches together,&nbsp; will really help.&nbsp; And also I've been very busy during this period with pitches, doing them virtually online. I do think that at one stage you do need to have a face to face because marketing is a people business. Much as we're all experts in Zoom etc and Teams now, I do think we do need that degree of face to face. But I think clients have been more available as they're not travelling, they're not spending an hour and half each way. The pitches that I've been involved in, the clients have been much more open to having more time, we've had two or three meetings where usually you'd have perhaps one, trying to get everyone involved. It's easy to get a guy from New York to dial in. &nbsp; I think, it's been positive, on the negative side unfortunately there's redundancies and I've got CMO clients that are now having to look around. It's mid August, the furlough scheme has started to come to an end.&nbsp; So that's sad to see, on agency side. But we'll come out of it whenever&nbsp; and I think relationships will be stronger and deeper and we will have different ways of working? However they evolve, it will be great. You just got to try and look at the positives and work together on this sort of thing.<br><br><strong>Jenny:</strong> You mentioned the agencies have been responding really well in terms of partnering with their clients. Can you give us a couple of examples? Have they been sort of more flexible with payment terms or, I don't know, just stepping up to offer more advice or more direction, what kinds of things that they've been doing differently?<br><br><strong>Tina: </strong>Yeah, I think it's all of that. It's like, 'we were going to spend £5 million on media but it might be 5, it might be two and half, it might be one' . So let's go through some more modelling on the media side. I've seen agency come back and say 'actually we've look at this technology and we could do this online experience'. Or I talked to a retail client last week that actually have done an experience with their media cost two weeks ago. So, yeah, I think they've been really practical, I think they been looking at what other clients have been doing. Obviously each client has been in their own bubble. But, you know, we're looking at what's a Bank doing FMCG, versus Manufacture? I think they've been really helpful in terms of saying 'look, you know, this is what other clients are doing',&nbsp; and then having discussions about what happens to the staff, because staff did need to be furloughed, so working with clients on what works best. Some clients obviously had their spend cut,&nbsp; some have carried on spending,&nbsp; some have reduced, but they will come back. They will remember the agencies that work with them. It's always been about being proactive, you know, a good agency, a good account person is someone who is proactive, and I think on the whole its been really good to during this pandemic, people have stepped up.<br><br><strong>Jenny:</strong> That's excellent. You mentioned before that one of the key skills for an account manager off the relationship is pro activity just sort of expanding on that? Given your number of years in the business, what other skills do you think are key for a really good account manager?<br><br><strong>Tina:</strong> Being proactive, I think being able to hold senior level discussions. I think that's the big crux of the IPA report. But being able to deal with senior people. I think, being financially aware, I think that is an area that could be improved in terms of having those 'why are we all doing this?' (conversations).&nbsp; Magic logic, which is now 15 years ago, said, it's about getting profitable ideas that work for both sides. Why is the client investing the money in that PR, that digital, that event? Because they need to drive sales.&nbsp; agrees it. An account person who's not even focussed that well, how can they deliver for the client?&nbsp; So I think it's being able to have the dialogue with senior people on the client side,&nbsp; being financially aware and I think also management, because I think their role is very much about co-ordinating&nbsp; agency's resource because they take the brief, go out and work with the creative, production, planners etc to deliver what is right for that client. But being able to manage, to be to coordinate and effect change, deliver for that client is really key, and to have that client top of mind. It's obviously being able to deliver for the agency as well, you can’t deliver for the client at 0% profit because you’re not delivering for the agency then. It's making sure you can get the skills of the agency resources to deliver to match the client's brief on time and in line with the budget as well. And that is a skill. It does take a skill to do that, and I think account managers, the right ones, are really, really good. At the end of the day the key one is being&nbsp; focussed on the client’s business. That's what is top of their mind.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> I'm sure you know Tim Williams from Ignition Consulting Group, he delivered a report for the AAA between agencies and clients. It was a huge global study and it was sponsored by a lot of the marketing bodies globally. But one of the questions was, What are you actually selling? You know, as an agency and all the answers came back from agencies saying creativity, strategy, people, solutions. And the outcome was you are selling business outcomes. You know, just as you said, what are the business outcomes that the client is going to receive as a result of working with you? So, I love that you brought up that point.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Tina:</strong> Yeah, I think you know, agencies, we focus on the awards sometimes, you know? Okay, everyone likes award winning work.&nbsp; But it’s exactly that, why is the client spending money with you? You have to be focused on that. When I worked agency side one of the most focussed teams in one of the agencies that I worked with was the one that had a bonus linked to how the advertising worked. And they were the most focussed ones in terms of ‘ok, that ad’s gone out.&nbsp; Where’s the data from you and where are we?’. Because they could see what was working. Obviously, these days, that's a lot easier to do with digital work but you’ve got to think why is client spending this money with you, it’s not a vane project. Even more so coming out of this period, about investment, we’ve got to talk to a procurement client, she works across five markets and she says, right we’re going to spend money as a whole now. So if France needs upweighting we will look at that, as opposed to five markets doing their own separate work. I think there’ll be a bigger fight for the money but I think there’ll be more focussed activity and making sure the work and the budgets go further than they ever did.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> That's a really good point, actually. You mentioned just earlier on about the latest report that came out. So this was a report that's just come out from the IPA commissioned by the IPA by Hall and Partners called the Future of Account management. And for those of you haven't read it, there were four key reasons for this report was coming out. One, we're losing talent to tech and management consultancies.Two, the value of account management needs redefining. Three, there's a growing need to collaborate across different agencies and four, obviously with the new normal with Covid and the economic impact we’re having to do more with less. So just curious to bring you in on this at this point about having to define the value that an account manager brings to clients, you know. Do you think clients see the value in account management?</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Tina: </strong>I think they do. I was quite surprised by that report. I felt it was quite light in places and I was quite surprised. And there was a silly quote from a procurement person, and I’d like to know who they interviewed as I wouldn’t mind speaking to that procurement person themselves. I actually just looked back to the pitches I’ve done over the last few months to see potentially what was the cost of account management, and it was 20%. So actually in terms of costs versus creative account has a key role to play. My points are there are too many. In these pitches I said, there were twelve job titles in account management, ranging from Chief Executive to Account Exec. To me, what is the difference between a senior account manager and a junior account director? There’s absolutely no difference. You do not need twelve roles in account management. So I think they have a great role to play&nbsp; but I think there needs to be less of them. I think they need to be more senior and I think they need to be more focussed. The best one, James Murphy, I’ve got his number on my mobile phone and you see him with clients and he’s on it. He knows it, he’s in with the C-Suite. He’s on it with the clients but I can still ring him up and have a discussion about their fees and have a bit of a laugh as well. And you see him interacting with clients and why do you need - there are obviously good people that he’s worked with at other agencies, in case any of them are listening! - if you’ve got him and the support of one or two others, why do you need&nbsp; six different people in account management? The poor account exec on £45 per hour is arranging the meetings and organising the lunches from Pret’s, when they all go back into the offices, but I think they have a great role to play. I do think the IPA report underplays it. I do think they missed a few bits. I think they need to be more commercially aware, more focussed and be able to have those senior level discussions.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> And asking the right questions, presumably, because I think one of the other things I hadn't realised was that the chief brand officer for P and G, Mark Pritchard, said, I think this was a couple of years ago, that they wanted less account managers for their agencies and more creative. It seems to me that account management generally is in the spotlight right now, isn't it?</div><div><br></div><div>Tina: Yeah. Yeah, I'm surprised, I think it has a great role to play.&nbsp; I just wondered what the premise behind the IPA report was. If you look at when they did the study it was end of last year. Ok, I think they do acknowledge that things have changed but for me, I was quite surprised.I’ve always felt, and I know my counterparts do, that account management has a great role to play. We would just often question, obviously, the number of roles, their rate. Sometimes you need so many, it’s more about their value and their contribution.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Why do you think that agencies put so many levels of account management forward?</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Tina: </strong>The common complaint from clients that go to a meeting is there’s four from the agency, and they don't want to pay for that. I do hear that more and more.&nbsp; I think from an agency point of view, it’s covering everything. To have account managers and accounts execs there, the learning. But the client shouldn’t pay for that. It could be with a negotiation you need two ears, four ears? It could be that as well. They are on the account, they have been paid for. Those agencies lucky enough to have a retainer, they justify the hours, maybe? I think on the whole it’s good intentions, but in the last few years, clients have started to say, I don’t want to pay for them. But it’s been interesting because you don’t have those same levels - look at planning - head of planning, senior planner, junior planner. Creative - executive creative director, creative director, medium. Production - the same. I think it’s come out of salaries, pay rises, and that’s why it’s blossomed into more job titles.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> I think you're right. I think some agencies use as how are we going to have a promotional pathway for you and we create these different levels so that you feel that you're progressing in your career.&nbsp; I see a huge amount of disparity between when I worked with different agencies. If you have a title of account director often for me, it's not consistent. There's no consistency like you say.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Tina: </strong>Yeah, that's where it falls down on. If you've got an account director, I remember working for a media agency quite a few years ago for a bank and their argument was, our account director is five years more experienced than Agencies , 2 and 3. And it’s a fair point. That’s why I think the auctions are really awful as you don’t account for that. But who is educated in the fact that their account director is five years more experience than other agencies?</div><div><br></div><div>Jenny: Well, I was going to ask you actually. To that point, do you think agencies that want to put forward during the pitch process their different levels of account management should spend more time helping the client understand the value of each of those levels, or certainly the role of each levels in more detail.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Tina:</strong> I think it’s hard in a pitch process because obviously you’re in front of a senior person and one other. Obviously for a large account in the pitches I’ve actually been having discussions before the pitch. Fair discussions in which you can say, actually account management is 35%, the other agencies are 25%, why is that? They’d say, ‘based on our experience we think we need additional heads’. I think once the agency does their initial structure then it’s not just down to procurement, it’s down to the marketing client as well. Sometimes they’re left alone to look at the commercial side and actually before you know it the client’s like ‘why have I got all these account people?’. Procurement needs to engage with their marketing clients in any pitch proces and say, this is the structure they’ve sent, what do you think? You’ve got your past agency, you know what you have been paying and the structure of it and you should use that as a benchmark as well. It’s good to have that regular dialogue and then if you’ve got that commercial paperwork you can review that and say ‘ well, this did have some side projects - two gold, two silver, one bronze’ and we had these five people but actually now five goals actually need to upgrade it and rethink the structure.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny: </strong>That's a really good point, actually. Going back a step to pitching because obviously we're doing virtual pitching now, you've seen many, many pitch performances on part of agencies in your time. I'm curious to know, where do you see really standout performances from account management? Can you give us a couple of examples of where it really has shone and the client's turned round and gone ‘wow’?</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Tina:</strong> I think it’s someone who is managing the process. Be it face to face, be it online, in the pitch process the account manager is the one in charge. The best examples of the ones I deal with is someone who is the conductor of the orchestra. Is on top of it, they’ve got the tech set up. They know who’s talking at what time, who’s got what role. Watching the client, that is key. Are they getting restless, are they doing their emails? What are they engaging in? Recently on one pitch the account manager said, let’s stop now. He was quite good, he had a picture of a pipe, or something, and it means let’s have a break. He was really good at questioning, saying ‘what do you think?’. ‘Where are we, how are we going?’ That’s great brave to do during a pitch because the client could say they don’t like it and you’ve got another two hours to go! So it’s someone who is in charge, who’s managing it, who’s watching the client but also making sure the agency are on top of it. Keeping to time, because that’s my pet hate. Be it an hour, be it three hours, making sure everything runs smoothly. Knowing the client, someone who’s done their research. I say to agencies, have you looked up the procurement person on LinkedIn? When you know your audience, and if you know that Johnny who’s at Client X used to work at Client Y, you can get the SP on it and ask, are they allergic to nuts, or whatever. I think that’s where agencies fall down generally is on having that level of engagement with procurement on a par with marketing. I think in pitches that is often true that, sometimes we have to bust our way into a pitch, its often the front part of the pitch process and obviously we can’t score as well as the client’s do on strategy but not to have done your research, is where they fall down. Not addressing procurement in the pitch, treating procurement as one of the team. Often agencies don’t do that, they might ignore the procurement person totally, some might ask a silly question, but a good account person will fudge it. Please don’t leave the procurement section to the last budget slide. Even engage them beforehand, do not leave it to the pitch. Even if they are not in the briefing process, do we need to engage with procurement - get it over and done with! If they are one of these procurement people who’s all about ‘the computer says no’ and it’s all about costs, at least you know that. Procurement shouldn’t be the lead, obviously, they should be there to support. But if it is a very costed out client, you might not have got that from the marketing people. Engagement early with procurement as soon as you can in the pitch process as well.&nbsp;</div><div><br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny: </strong>There's so many good, valuable tips there. Thank you for sharing. Honestly, I think that's like, I hope people were taking notes. One of the things you said earlier on, which I feel quite passionate about is the role of account management is a lot of the time about picking up on those subtleties of what's happening in a meeting and knowing when to shut up, when to speak, when to lead, when to step in. So I'm really glad you brought that bit up because that's the kind of softer element, but gets so overlooked and so taken, you know, for granted or feeling like that's not really important. But for me, I suppose, throughout my career over 30 years, it's the one thing that I've witnessed time and time again is where an account manager pays for themselves. You know, it's knowing what to do. It's having that sensitivity.</div><div><br></div><div>Tina: And learning to read upside down! Say if there’s a scoring sheet, any agencies listening, I hate you sitting next to me on pitches, but you should sit next to me on pitches because you’ll be able to see what I’m writing! That’s why I don’t like it.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> You mentioned earlier on and this is one of my questions, was I think for a lot of account people, there's a little bit of not fear exactly, but wondering how to engage with procurement. So you mentioned before, you know, make sure you know who they are. Connect with them on LinkedIn. Find out much as you can, develop a relationship. Tell us a bit more about that and where you see the value of account management actually creating relationships with the procurement team.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Tina: </strong>Yeah, I think it's not just in the pitch process, you know, it’s for life. And that’s where I see the biggest fall down for agencies. Procurement often get involved in the pitch but then obviously agencies don’t often see them. So my biggest tip for agencies, let them see you look them on LinkedIn, you might get scored for looking them up on LinkedIn, you never know. Clients do talk about, ‘did you get that box of biscuits after the pitch?’. I know we have a ethics register, but treat the procurement person, within the ethics. Look them up, do as you would with marketing but be a bit more vocal about it. Treat them as an equal throughout any part of the process because they are as important as a marketing person. Post pitch have a level of engagement with them, and that’s where agencies fall down time and time again. I have for years said to any agencies that I’ve worked with, have a procurement club, have a procurement quarterly session. Ok, it could be a bit dangerous to get all your procurement clients in one room every quarter, but hardly any of them have done it and I just think, you’re really missing a trick. Or when they, when we did go out and go to events, I’m lucky to get invited to them, I rarely see a procurement person at them. I say to the client organiser, have you invited them? Sometimes they have, sometimes they just haven’t. Christmas party, are we going to be the ones asking, how much is that costing? Have a joke about it! Procurement’s here, put the vodka away! It’s pre-pitch, get the SP on them, LinkingIn with them, have that dialogue. But for me, it’s more important post pitch. The ones where you can give them a ring afterwards. I think agencies have got better at it. I think there’s still room for improvement, have that quarterly dialogue and have something where they can come out and understand how we do our process for X, it’s valuable.</div><div><br><br></div><div><strong>Jenny: </strong>I absolutely love that, and that's invaluable for agencies. I think it's great advice, thank you. I suppose, also, it's in the agency's interest, isn't it? If they did have those quarterly catch ups, it's also like a forum to be able to tell them what else is going on with their agency. What other services perhaps they got. Maybe they've made an acquisition and they have more things to offer.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Tina:</strong> With my clients I do a quarterly review programme. And we also do an agency review programme where we score each other as well. In the quarterly commercials we’ve got a fixed agenda and it’s ‘what’s new with you and what’s new with us?’. One of my clients has been bought by somebody, so we talk about that. In the meantime, the agency’s actually been merged with another agency. I think you’re exactly right, Jenny, what’s new, let’s look at the scope, let’s look at the resource, what’s proactive? It just gives you that regular dialogue.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Absolutely. Like you said at the beginning, these people that are now may be on the C suite, the chief procurement officers, they're going to know what's going on at a business level, aren't they? So that their whole procurement team are gonna be updated on that? So it's a regular forum that agencies can have with their procurement contact to understand what's going on with the business, what are the business challenges, what's important. What are the strategic imperatives this year? And then they could look more forward thinking to think, how are we going to develop our services in order for us to tackle those challenges for the client.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Tina: </strong>Totally agree? While I think agencies shouldn’t worry about consultancies because they haven’t made the impact that everyone was worried about 18 months years ago, they are very good at that C-Suite relationship. And agencies do fall down on that.&nbsp; It’s easy to do. You’ve got a client that you’ve had for two, three, four years. People move but it doesn't take much to pick up the phone or have a cup of coffee. And to have that regular dialogue. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> Again, fantastic advice. Great reminder for agency account managers to think about that. I've been talking about this for a long time because obviously you know this, that in the landscape the Accentures of this world are becoming a hugely inquisitive aren’t they?. They're acquiring the creative arms. So I kind of thought to myself, it's only a matter of time before these highly skilled, more business consultancy type leads in management consultants are going to shine and be able to do the whole spectrum of services. Not just business consultancy, but all the way through to creative strategy concepts, you know, and all the tactics. So they haven't made the impact that you expected them to, though that's interesting. Why do you think. Can you give us an example?</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Tina: </strong>I can’t name names, but in terms of presenting in pitches, the overall package has been really difficult to fulfill or become cost-prohibitive. Don’t forget, consultancy is a lot more expensive than agencies. I do think agencies have reacted, agencies have sharpened their pencil a bit in terms of senior people. In terms of strategic insight, planning. I think in a way it’s helped, it has made many agencies step up to the table a bit more. I think agencies are very inward looking. Sometimes they should be more externally focussed. I do think the reason we haven’t seen such a big impact over here in the UK is that agencies have stepped up as well and thought, let’s get more at the table with the C-Suite.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny: </strong>&nbsp;It's interesting because I think we were at the same conference. The IPA conference when Lisa Thomas spoke. Remember, she's head of Brand for Virgin, but she also interestingly she used to work for MC Saatchi. Like you, she's got two sides of the coin, and I just remember that moment when she almost, like, turned to the audience and she waved her finger because she’s sat in boardrooms now and she said, ‘we're not talking about creative in boardrooms. We're talking business outcomes and business challenges and business. If you want to see on the table, you need to speak our language’. And so I thought it was brilliant. I've quoted that quote so many times. That is</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Tina: </strong>That’s the role of account managers.<strong> </strong>That’s why the IPA paper missed a bit of a trick there in terms of, exactly Jenny, that's exactly what Lisa said. Step up, know your numbers go on some commercial courses, go on a negotiation course. I recently did Mark Ritson’s Mini MBA</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny:</strong> How’s that going?</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Tina: </strong>&nbsp;It was really good. I didn’t do the exam unfortunately as I was so busy but from a procurement point of view, and even though I’ve got 25 years experience, to learn from Mark and understand the strategic side of marketing. Obviously we see the tactical end, so if account people could sharpen that finance. Go and spend time with the client, sit in those boardroom meetings and that’s exactly what account management’s role is, to translate that back to their organisation. To say look, they’re really struggling because of Covid, because of supply and demand. For me that’s why account management has a great role to play. I’m not sure what that procurement person from the IPA report has been doing, have they been on planet Mars?</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny: </strong>I think you mentioned this at the beginning. You said, I know procurement have a bit of a bad rap sometimes, and I suppose it's, you know, comments like that that have been taken out of context or highlighted in a place where they perhaps shouldn't. It's a shame, actually, because you're right and procurement are the ones that understand that commercial side of the business, isn't it? I think this is really valuable for agency account managers to hear. I really do, because you're absolutely spot on. I mean, do you have any other advice other than the stuff that you mentioned already about, you know, talking strategy, thinking about the commercials, the business acumen that you need to acquire, Perhaps looking at one of those, you know, the Mark Ritson. Do you recommend the Mini MBA?</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Tina: </strong>It’s the Mini MBA in Marketing. It’s very good from a marketing point of view, but obviously not money-wise. It's definitely worth looking at investing in training. CIPs, our trade body, we’ve worked on guides with the IPA that will be launching in September 2020. Look out for those. For me, it’s commerciality, invest in understanding a client’s business and how to work with more senior people and be credible. Be deeper with your clients, knowledge and, we call it, stakeholder management. To be able to deal with your internal stakeholders is one thing, but to be able to speak boardroom language, it’s a different thing.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny: </strong>I echo this as well. It's all about having a relationship development strategy and also confidence. You know, I train account managers, account directors, and one of the things that keeps coming up is this lack of confidence. So there's no wonder that they're not having a dialogue at that level. And there's lots of factors involved in that. It’s knowledge of the client's business, their industry,&nbsp; what's changing, trends, but also and I love your view on this. Many account managers, account directors have this dual function. They're half kind of project, managing the projects on also half being expected to be the ambassador for the agency and develop and grow that piece of business, have that commercial point of view and also look at what's changing on the client side in terms of their business. And often it's conflicted because the project management side of their role, you know, they're inundated with just getting stuff done. And it goes probably to the detriment of spending time, understanding the client and nurturing the client and looking further ahead. So, Tina, this has been fantastic. Really, really brilliant. I'm very conscious of your time, Tina, where can people reach you? And who would you like to be contacted by? If anyone hears for anything you've said which has been absolute gold and they want to talk further with you.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Tina: </strong>Thank you, Jenny, that's very kind.&nbsp; There’s my website which is <a href="http://www.tinafegent.com">www.tinafegent.com</a> and you’ll find my contact details. As Jenny said, I’m on LinkedIn a bit,&nbsp; sometimes on Twitter. I'm happy, I don’t want to open the floodgates to a load of agencies, but I'm always happy to have an approach from an agency and, when I've got time, to have a chat. It’s a hard market out there, I think, but I’ve enjoyed our chat, Jenny, and hopefully it’s given your listeners some perspective from the role of the procurement person.</div><div><br></div><div><strong>Jenny: </strong>It really, really has. It truly has. Thank you so much, Tina. Really appreciate your time. Thank you.</div><div><br></div><div>I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you'd like more details about how you can position yourself more as a trusted advisor with your clients, then head over to bit.ly/accountaccelerator where you’ll have more information about a course I'm running. It's a three month programme and it's to help you go from unpredictable project revenue to more predictable account growth, and this is specifically for agency account managers.</div><div><br></div><div><br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2020 14:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/k85312p8.mp3" length="56168406" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/14bc23e0-e611-11ea-a681-4d139652dad8/14bc25c0-e611-11ea-8f12-8fc8a7278277.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2808</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>In this episode, Tina Fegent, marketing procurement consultant with almost 30 years experience shares tips for what procurement want from agencies and specifically agency account management.

Tina has worked both client side for companies such as Orange and agency side in the role of Commercial Director so really understands what works and doesn't work when it comes to creating and developing relationships with the procurement team.

In this episode Tina shares;

- The most common complaint she hears from clients about agency account management
- What great account management looks like for her
- Why developing relationships with procurement is good for agency business
- Ideas you can try right now for how to engage with procurement
- What to avoid when pitching
- What management consultancies are doing really well that agencies should be doing more of....

....and lots more!

So grab a pen and get ready to take some notes because she shares some golden nuggets of wisdom for you.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>In this episode, Tina Fegent, marketing procurement consultant with almost 30 years experience shares tips for what procurement want from agencies and specifically agency account management.

Tina has worked both client side for companies such as Orange and agency side in the role of Commercial Director so really understands what works and doesn't work when it comes to creating and developing relationships with the procurement team.

In this episode Tina shares;

- The most common complaint she hears from clients about agency account management
- What great account management looks like for her
- Why developing relationships with procurement is good for agency business
- Ideas you can try right now for how to engage with procurement
- What to avoid when pitching
- What management consultancies are doing really well that agencies should be doing more of....

....and lots more!

So grab a pen and get ready to take some notes because she shares some golden nuggets of wisdom for you.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>creative agency account manager</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>What your agency clients really want, with Kate Whittaker</title>
      <link>https://podcasts.castplus.fm/e/1xn1r5v8</link>
      <itunes:title>What your agency clients really want, with Kate Whittaker</itunes:title>
      <itunes:episode>1</itunes:episode>
      <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
      <googleplay:block>No</googleplay:block>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">y703zn41</guid>
      <description>In my first episode I'm delighted to be chatting to Kate Whittaker, Head of Corporate Communications at DUAL International.

As a marketing client, Kate Whittaker has 30 years experience managing agency relationships so is very well placed to give her perspective on what agency account managers could be doing to win their clients over.

In this episode we cover:

1. How Kate selects her agencies and what she suggests you do if you're considering cold calling prospective clients
2. The qualities she looks for in a potential agency partner
3. Examples of where agency account managers have won her over and built her trust as well as where agencies get client management wrong
4. Some advice for how agencies can present additional ideas during the course of working on another project
5. Why you need to be asking your clients for more referrals
6. Her tips for how to position yourself as more of a trusted advisor
7. What's changed for her in light of COVID-19 and what she'd be interested in hearing from agencies right now
8. Some great tips for how to maintain and develop strong client relationships during this time of remote working

I hope you enjoy this episode. It's packed full of nuggets to help agency account managers with client retention and growth. 

The sound isn't optimal and my interviewing skills need some work but I do hope you come away with some actionable tips you can put into practice in your agency account management role.  

If you'd like more information about how you can retain and grow existing client relationships, you'll find information about the latest training for agency account managers here: https://bit.ly/accountaccelerator.

If you're an agency leader with three employees or more and haven't already joined the Agencynomics free community, here's a link to join: https://community.agencynomics.com/.

If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love your support by leaving a review and also drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com if you know someone in a client role who would like to be interviewed and can share some great advice for helping agency account managers with their role.</description>
      <content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong>Welcome to the Creative Agency Account Manager Podcast with me, Jenny Plant, from Account Management Skills Training. </strong><br><br>I'm on a mission to help those in agency client service keep and growing the existing client relationships, so their agency business can thrive.<br><br>Welcome to episode one of my first ever podcast. I'm thrilled to have as my first guest a client, and it's <strong>Kate Whittaker</strong> and she works at DUAL International, and she's head of corporate communications. And Kate is going to share with us what she looks for when selecting an agency - what to avoid when trying to prospect by cold calling clients, why you should be asking your clients for more referrals and then how to get access to even more of your clients once you're embedded in a client organisation. Also, she's going to share some top tips for building really strong client relationships. So I really enjoyed this chat. I hope you get some value. The sound isn't great in places, but I'm working on this. I'm also working on my interview techniques so hopefully with every episode it's going to get better. So now let's go to the interview. <br><br>So today I'm really, really excited about Kate Whittaker joining me. Kate is head of corporate communications at DUAL, and she has three decades of experience working in marketing communications and loads of experience managing agency relationships. And I think it's really exciting to get the perspective from a client, really, about the role of an agency account manager. So I'm just going to ask Kate to introduce herself. Kate, welcome to the show,<br><br><strong>Kate: </strong>Thank you very much, Jenny. I'm really delighted to be here with you although, of course, we're not actually together. So, I'm head of corporate communications for DUAL Group and we're a global insurance group in 16 countries. But we're just about 700 people or so, so it's very personal and friendly. My role is a mix of communications and marketing, which makes it very varied and interesting. So as, Jenny said, I've been working in marketing for around 30 years in a mix of UK and international roles. These have mainly being client side, so I've worked with agencies throughout that time. And one of the reasons I'm really pleased you've asked me here today, Jenny, is I just don't think enough can be done to bring clients and agencies together, working in partnership, and&nbsp; anything I could do to help that process I am delighted to contribute. Until this role at DUAL, I was a branding marketing consultant for around 15 years, and very often this involved reviewing agency rosters and also running agency selection process, so I hope I've lots to say today.<br><br><strong>Jenny: </strong>Honestly, Kate, I know that you have because, what I failed to mention that the beginning, was that Kate and I met each other about a year ago at an Agencynomics event and I was invited to facilitate a discussion panel, and Kate was one of the guests. We had about four or five agency people and Kate was the token client, and that discussion was so rich and so brilliant and there were agency owners in the audience furiously taking notes and going away with lots of new ideas. So I know that this is going to be a great discussion. And, by the way, if anyone hasn't joined Agencynomics and they're in charge of an agency, I'm going to put an invitation link in the show notes. If you are an agency owner and you have three employees minimum, then it's one of the largest free agency owner communities that there is, and it's a very thriving community. So, Kate, obviously you've got a huge amount of experience as you say, 15 years as a brand marketing consultant as well as the role that you're in currently. So let's start from the beginning. How did you select your agencies, and in that selection process I also am interested to know if you were approached by agencies and whether you still are. So what does that initial process looked like?<br><br><strong>Kate: </strong>So, obviously it varies from company to company. But to my mind, the common theme for me is I'm looking for a partner to work with. So the selection process is about being clear and transparent about what you need as a client, and what you're expecting the agency to bring to that relationship. I remember in my first few roles, back in the day, the creative directors' agencies were treated like royalty, and woebetide any client who questioned their thinking. Thankfully, those times behind us now, and it is really or should be about partnership. I think that the client agency meeting should be a single team coming together with common goals, but you're bringing different areas of expertise because otherwise why would you be working with them? So you know, if you're not looking forward to the meetings you have with your agency or with your client, I think there's something that needs fixing. <br><br>So back to agency selection, typically it had a creative brief, and I'm a massive believer as you know, Jenny, in a clear and comprehensive brief. So we set out our selection criteria and make them very transparent, so every agency knows the points we will be considering that they need to address in their pitch for our business. And the main things I look for are quality of thinking and the ability to provide constructive challenge. Really, possibly because I'm in a more specialist B2B area, I rarely asked agencies to create new creative because I think it's very time consuming and I want their time to be focused on the quality of thinking and strategic direction, but I do like to see campaigns and case studies from previous clients to really understand what the objectives were. what was the brief, and what were the results.<strong> If you're an agency and you're looking for new clients my absolute top tip is really do your research. </strong>And I know this because I'm on a prospect list somewhere that agencies must be buying that actually list me as working for the Howden Broking Group, which is one of our sister companies. I regularly get emails maybe not every week, but several times a month from agencies promising to transform Howden's marketing and all they would have had to do is a simple check on LinkedIn to see that I don't actually work there and that we're not a broker. I think if you're doing cold calling, my other top tip is take the time to ask if now's a good time to talk. I&nbsp; get cold calls really quite often and it's so rare that someone ask if it's a good time to talk before they launch into a sales pitch. And that just sets me on edge to start with, so those are my two top tips.<br><br><strong>Jenny: </strong>Kate, I was just going to say there's a few things there already that you've said, which I think are really useful. First of all, I love the fact that you don't ask for new creative at a pitch, because I know that's a little bit of a bone of contention for many agencies because a lot of work goes into pitches generally, and often for like a one in four chance of winning, so a lot of time and effort goes in.&nbsp; It's nice to hear that you don't necessarily want to see brand new creative, but you do want to see examples of work. The other thing that you said, which I thought was really lovely about agency selection, was you're looking for quality thinking and also constructive challenge. So it almost invites the agency to participate in strategy and also to question things. And it's nice that you welcome that approach from agencies as well. But, this is really useful, this how to approach you and there's some brilliant examples there of 'do you research' because I get pitched myself and, you know, if they don't even take the time to understand what you're doing currently, it's just it's a no go, isn't it? Just interested, when you said you were approached, did you say you're on an email list? Do you tend to get approached on email more than anything else, like LinkedIn, for example, do you get pitched in LinkedIn?<br><br><strong>Kate</strong>: Probably more on email, actually, and on LinkedIn if I get a request, obviously I'm gonna look at who has sent that request and see where the connections are that they've and if it's people I know and value, and that will usually persuade me to accept the request to connect. And then you sort of know you're going to get a pitch, which is okay, because I've already made that decision to enter into a conversation. Phone calls, I do think work less well, because you don't know whether the person you're phoning is going to be busy, having a bad day,&nbsp; whereas I can actually pick and choose the time I might reply to an email or a LinkedIn request.<br><br><strong>Jenny</strong>: Has it ever worked with you, Kate? So, has anyone pitched you cold? Whether it be phone calls, email or LinkedIn and it's actually turned into a relationship, and an ongoing agency relationship you have?<br><br><strong>Kate</strong>: Not quite yet. I'm just thinking in recent times, but I am actually in conversation with an agency that came to us with a really interesting and thought provoking email that was nothing really about the agency, it was something around developing tone of voice and how that adds value. It was relevant to me at the time and I'm pretty convinced that they'll have a piece of work from us before the year's out. It's just life is a bit unusual at the moment, and it has happened in the past as well. One of the things I think some agencies have been doing well through lockdown is creating content led webinars so you can go along, share thoughts, share ideas and even if that doesn't lead to me giving an agency a piece of business, or developing a relationship with them,&nbsp; quite often I'm happy to recommend that agency because I've experienced their thinking and the work they've done. And we're really small network within financial services in marketing and people are often asking for recommendations, so it may not come directly but quite often will come indirectly.<br><strong><br>Jenny: </strong>I love that you've said that as well, because this is what I talked to my agency account directors and account managers about is this doing content led webinars. So this is really interesting, I want to dive the little bit deeper into that. I know that recently, because of the situation with Covid, we're kind of recording this at the beginning of August 2020 where we've just come out of lockdown, or this is the initial stages of coming out of lock down. But a lot of agencies were doing content-led Webinars. What do you look for specifically, that's most interesting for you to take the time to attend?<br><strong><br>Kate:</strong> Timing is important, so even though I'm working from home, I'm having it feels like twice as many meetings. So something that's over done in an hour is actually really helpful. Don't underestimate that because, actually, there's one agency in particular they do a breakfast meeting or they do it a the end of the day, which is much easier for me to manage my diary. And there are a number of webinars that I've missed because they're at 11 o'clock in the morning and I'm in the middle of something else and I just can't take the time. And then, of course, the content itself is really important. So people that were coming up with ideas around how other people are handling Covid-related communications was something I attended very early on. They were giving examples from really big companies like Apple and Marks and Spencer. And that was really helpful for me because sometimes you know, we've been operating a bit in a vacuum, so to get a sense of what the outside world is doing and communications you might not see otherwise has been helpful. And I think we're all a bit nosey, it's nice to see what other companies are doing and what's worked for them.<br><br><strong>Jenny</strong>: I think that's spot on, actually. I've seen with other clients, actually, that they want to know what everybody else is doing. So that's an interesting angle for agencies to approach clients is to first of all invite them to something that where they can showcase their knowledge. Presumably, that content webinar was kind of pure content rather than a pitch, right, Kate?<br><br><strong>Kate: </strong>Yes, it was, but of course, you expect the agency to tell you a little bit about themselves, and it's a clear commercial situation, so you'd actually feel a bit odd if they didn't do a little bit of a sales pitch either at the beginning or the end. But I'm also careful about where I accept hospitality, even in virtual which is slightly different to drinking glasses of wine and eating peanuts. But I do feel if I'm making a commitment and accepting someone's hospitality and receiving wisdom from them that I do have an obligation to give some feedback or to just continue the conversation. So I think you've got really warm prospects if they've accepted an invitation from you.<br><br><strong>Jenny:</strong> Fantastic. I'm just curious about this because I know that other clients enjoy attending these webinars. Is there any topic that you think would be even more relevant right now that you would be interested in?<br><strong><br>Kate:</strong> One of the challenges we have faced it is how do we get the messaging and honing the messaging right. Because everybody has been through locked down, but so many people have had very, very different experiences. I've been mostly on my own through lockdown, which I found incredibly challenging because I'm normally out and&nbsp; about and with people all the time. And I've got colleagues who have a two hour commute that simply disappeared and are now spending quality time with their family and they've really enjoyed lockdown. So I think that for me is the biggest challenge of getting that balance right and making sure you're being considerate and compassionate with people. But at the same time, we've all got a business to run. So that, I think, is where I've looked for help from agencies. And that's driven which webinars I might have accepted to attend or not.<br><br><strong>Jenny:</strong> Fantastic. Okay, so I can see agencies coming up with their 'How to get the tone right with your messaging, your corporate communications' those webinars will be coming out left, right, and centre now Kate, I can just see it! Moving onto agency relationships and the agency account manager or account director specifically, can you give me a flavour or a few examples of where agencies have really earned your trust and have stood out for you for making themselves invaluable?<br><br><strong>Kate</strong>:&nbsp; Absolutely, you know, this is particular special topic of mine because I think you could have great creative in an agency, but without account management it really just all falls apart. And good account management makes everything run smoothly, but great account management is what transforms the relationship from a client supplier to one of a real partnership and we're quite a specialist company so industry knowledge is really important to me. And the account director I work with in our current agency will often just drop me an email with information, snippets of news and industry news and competitor activity she thinks I might have missed. If I got a problem I need to solve, I will usually pick up the phone up and talk to her, even though it might not result directly in business for her, but the better she understands my business creates better work, and they do often go above and beyond organising calls and giving time, which actually isn't billed. But it's that stacks up and creates credits, and that trust is something that obviously has to build over time. But I have a really good example. Last year, we had an internal Leadership conference, which is attended by all the group companies and we had to produce a video for it. I created the brief, gave it to the agency. The solution they came back with included dancing cartoon cats and doughnuts on and that was obviously never in the brief, but it was absolutely amazing. It completely wowed the audience. People internally are still talking about this video as something that took them completely by surprise, changed their perception of our business and I think that's a really good example of them feeling comfortable enough to present something completely left-field and me feeling comfortable that they had got that judged correctly.&nbsp; And also, hats off to my CEO whose signed off the concept. We trusted them enough for us to be brave and also for them to be brave and suggesting the concept. So I think it is something that comes with time, that trust and it has to be earned, but when it's there something you never want to give up.<br><br><strong>Jenny</strong>: Wow, I agree. That was a fantastic example, because I think for clients it is a risk, isn't it? Sometimes if an agency comes up with an idea that's particularly bold or to stand out, it's either going to be memorable or it has the potential to fall flat. Getting it just right, fantastic hats off to them for presenting the idea to you. But was there any moment in that transaction that you thought, oh, I'm not 100 percent sure, or were you convinced at the beginning?<br><br><strong>Kate</strong>: I was convinced, and actually the account director has more years in the insurance industry than I have to so I trust her judgement as well, but actually it was just the CEO's response to it.&nbsp; I thought, iIf he goes with dancing cats then we're fine, we're all good and he loved it. The only challenge is we've got to repeat the impact that we have to do the event again this year.<br><br><strong>Jenny:</strong> Yeah, you've set the bar too high. You've mentioned a few times&nbsp; about industry knowledge. And how important is is that a prerequisite of working with you? You mentioned that your account director had more experience in the actual industry. Was that because they were ex client as well? Or have they just acquired that industry knowledge through time?<br><br><strong>Kate:</strong> It's a mix, she was on the client side, but actually her and her partner have this agency they set it up, so that gives them more skin in the game as well. But I would say industry experience is important in certain sectors. So I work in the underwriting arm of insurance, so it's nothing mainstream, like selling car insurance or home insurance. Without understanding those challenges and the markets we operate in it's quite hard to actually create communications campaigns. But obviously in other sectors, like banking, you know, everyone's experienced banking and we've all got a bank account. So yes, industry knowledge is good, but it's not gonna be as essential as it is in the more specialist B2B areas.<br><br><strong>Jenny:</strong> You gave a little tip there, which I thought was fantastic, is to prove to your client that you understand the industry is to send them snippets of news on a regular basis. Just out of interest, going a little bit tactical here, but when your account director or manager sends you that snippet of information, do they then give you their point of view on whether this snippet of information represents may be an opportunity for you to do something? Or maybe it represents a challenge that you need to do something about that they give you their point of view?<br><br><strong>Kate:</strong> Yes, absolutely. Either it's going to be in response to a conversation we've already had, or are having or it's about something they know that is coming up. And that's the reason I see my agency is part of my team. They just happen to work somewhere else. In the same way that a team member said something you would say, 'Oh, I thought this about it', you get that from the agency as well, so they really do feel like an extension of us, which was where it adds real value., .<br><br><strong>Jenny</strong>: I suppose, also, from the agency's point of view it's an opportunity for them to remain visible, isn't it? If they are sending you regular snippets.<br><br><strong>Kate</strong>: Yes, I think this is about intent, isn't it? So I think you think we're doing it just to, you know, go 'Oh, I haven't written to Kate this week', I must send her an email about something then I think you would spot that. But it does absolutely keep them visible and present. Quite often they'll share something with me that I share on within the company as well, so you know, everybody's quite comfortable with the choice of agency and nobody's says why we're spending money externally, even through Covid, because they see how they add value across the business.<br><br><strong>Jenny:</strong> Did the agency account manager ask you whether you wanted her to be keeping you updated on what was happening in the market? Or was it talked about at the beginning of the relationship at all?<br><br><strong>Kate</strong>: No, it wasn't even in the slightest. I was just I think we've worked so closely together, it just feels like we're having a bit of a conversation and chat as you would with a colleague. So it does feel that informal and a close relationship.<br><br><strong>Jenny</strong>: I love that. That's really good. I think this is really good tip for most agency account managers to take note of. And just to go, sorry, I'm going a little bit too deep into this, but just to be specific so people can come away with some actionable things to do that information. When is it most valuable to you? Because obviously they could share an insight into your customer, into the market, into the industry in general, into your company or your competitors? Does it matter specifically what they're sharing with you from the market?<br><br><strong>Kate</strong>: No, it doesn't. I think that, back to the earlier conversation that I like to involve my agency in understanding, deeply understanding, our strategy. So I invest the time to explain what we're doing. So normally, what they share is relevant, even though it might be different topics and themes. The other thing, which I should have mentioned already, is that it starts a conversation because I'll reply and go 'that's interesting, I'll have a think about this'. And sometimes it does result in us sending out an email that we weren't planning to do or some other kind of communication. So it's done with the best intent, and it might result in a piece of paid work or it might not. But it's done as part of a team.<br><br><strong>Jenny</strong>: That's amazing, brilliant. Just changing tack, a bit, Kate. There's some great examples of where agencies getting it right. What about where agencies get it wrong and you share a couple of examples of the kinds of things to not do with their clients.<br><br><strong>Kate</strong>: I think it comes back to account management for me almost every time, and when it doesn't work, it just feels exhausting. So I remember in one situation I inherited an agency when I moved into a new role and it was a project based role, so I had no intention of changing agencies. While I was there, I was just really there to deliver a project and they consistently missed deadlines, poor communication, inaccurate contact reports, inaccurate invoicing. And it was exhausting and chipped away any trust they may otherwise have had. And I think no surprises on both sides is really essential. So if I'm committing to get back with comments by close of play today, and I know that's not going to happen, I try and tell my agency as soon as I can. So they don't actually book time in the studio that they're not going to be using, and I expect the same back, it's just a sort of situation of respect, really. Things do go wrong and deadlines slip, but we should work together to create solutions. But I think that communication is key - don't make me chase you for something that should have been delivered.<br><br><strong>Jenny:</strong> Very good point. You said something there that was, I think, quite apt, 'I inherited the agency'. Would you agree that if an agency has a new client coming into the role, that's quite a key time to kind of step up the activity or do something different?<br><br><strong>Kate:</strong> Yes, 100%. Because of my consultancy background and the number of roles I've had over that 15 years quite often, I was going into roles where I was inheriting (that's an interesting expression 'inheriting' isn't it?) but inheriting other people's agency choices. Nine times out of 10, that's absolutely fine. But occasionally, you know things aren't going well&nbsp; and that's either because of an over confidence on the agency's side that they didn't feel the need to take the time to bring me up to speed with who they were and and what they've been doing. The ones that got it right would immediately, you know, welcome me. Tell me to come over and spend some time with him so I could understand what they offered. Because the other thing when you go into a new role, is your understanding of the agency is different than it would be if you've been through a pitch from them, because you don't understand the breadth and depth of the services they offer. So it's really helpful for me to know that the agency can do several other things other than the work they're really doing for me. And that's a great opportunity to kind of re-sell your business into the client side.<br><br><strong>Jenny</strong>: It's a no brainer, really, isn't it? That's a really great point, Kate. What about if, during the course of working with an agency, an agency has some new ideas to share with you? Do you welcome that? When is a good time to do that? How often should an agency do that and is there ever a bad time to do that?<br><strong><br>Kate</strong>: I don't think there's a bad time, really. The great thing about working with an agency is you put in a brief, you debate it, there's challenge around the brief and then the agency will come back with something which is better because you've had that collaborative process. And of course, there's gonna be times where the creative team say 'If we did this, it would be amazing'. And it would just turn what's an ordinary campaign into a great campaign, and I would always want those ideas to be suggested. If we don't have the money for it, I will be open and transparent. And I think that that acknowledgement that we know this wasn't in the brief but it sounds like a great idea - they're great conversations and they can take you down a direction you didn't expect, but is a better result in the end. I think the bad time to do it is where, I mean not so much these days, but agencies will add extra suggestions into their proposal because it's adding money to the end invoice, and I think clients will be usually quite adept to telling the difference between the two.<br><br><strong>Jenny:</strong> That's a really very good point there. You just said something a moment ago that I just wanted to ask you a bit more about. You said 'I will be clear if I don't have the money for it'. Has this ever happened to you, where an agency's come up with an idea that actually 'I'm going to find the money because we really need to do that'?<br><br><strong>Kate</strong>: Yes, and in fact, that conference video that I talked about a moment ago was a really good case in point, because we spent quite a lot of money on that. Originally, we were just going to do a talking head straightforward run of the mill insurance video and luckily there was an appetite to spend the extra budget and it paid off so well. We've used it at events, we've used it to win new business, we've used it externally as well as internally. So, yes, if there is a great idea if you are in a lucky position in the company you work for, you can usually find some extra budget.<br><br><strong>Jenny</strong>: And did the agency at the time of presenting that sort of slightly out their idea did they position it as this is going to get you more business? You know, if we can do this, did they sell it to you in that way? Or was it just Look, this is a fantastic idea, and it's just subsequently made you more money.<br><br><strong>Kate:</strong> The additional complications and really, really tight deadline, which I had made the decision to bring the scope back to something more ordinary because I didn't think we had enough time to do something extraordinary and actually what they came and pitched was 'we can do this, we can work weekends, we could work late hours because we think this is what you need'. And the fact that they were putting themselves to that trouble, but to produce something that they were going to be proud of as well, was what resonated with all of us.<br><br><strong>Jenny</strong>: Oh, I love that. We think this is what you need. I love that sort of confidence. Kate, in the course of working with your agencies and I know this came up at Agencynomics, I ask you the same question, so I kind of know what you're gonna say, but it's still blew everyone away when you gave the answer. How often do agencies ask you to refer them to somebody else?<br><strong><br>Kate</strong>: Hardly ever. It's really surprising because normally you'd think if you were in a position where you're working with an agency of a period of time it's because everybody's happy. You would think that would happen a lot. I've been giving some thought to it since we had that initial conversation and possibly for me, it's because I'm in a specialist market, and so would I be referring my agency to my competitors? No, because I don't want them to work with them. But I'm always happy to give endorsements and particularly if it showcases the work that we've done. I find that information really interesting when I look at agency websites or agency events, if you can look at case studies of similar clients and addressing similar issues, so I'm just really surprised people don't ask more.<br><br><strong>Jenny:</strong> It's a really good point, actually, as you say, if you're in a specialist area and who are you going to be referring them to? Probably not a competitor, because they did really good work for you. But what about within your company? Because if you're managing corporate comms, for example. But you have I mean, I don't know how your company's structured, but say you have individual brand managers in other departments or even other departments, per se, that would also benefit from working with an external agency. Would you see an internal referral as an opportunity for an agency to ask you?<br><br><strong>Kate</strong>: Yeah, in fact, I've done that. Interestingly, the famous video, that video the following day I had six emails from people all over the world asking me who had worked with on it, and asking for an introduction, so the agency introduced themselves with that piece of work. But also, what I try and do is if the agency has got something interesting to share then I will bring in my colleagues from other parts of the business. And we might have, you know, might have a discussion over lunch on a particular topic so they get to meet those colleagues of mine and create their own relationship.<br><br><strong>Jenny</strong>: I'm so glad you mentioned that, because that's another thing that I talked to my agency account managers about is instigating lunch and learn sessions. So what kinds of topics, particularly what are the topics that are most interesting?<br><br><strong>Kate</strong>: We'll given we work in insurance so probably none of it is very interesting for most people! We'll look at things like developing a brand personality, and making sure that communications are authentic and feel credible and consistent. Also specialist areas like developing email marketing campaigns that are effective, so top 10 tips. Just some simple things like that, bringing ideas from outside our business that other people are doing just thought provoking, and it's usually a really good use of your time. <br><br><strong>Jenny:</strong> I love that. It's also an opportunity for the agency to be in front of people that they don't know within the client company, isn't it, for them to establish relationships with other people that your colleagues that they could then perhaps develop and nurture those relationships.<br><br><strong>Kate: </strong>Exactly. And it does mean that I'm endorsing the agency and inviting them in and inviting colleagues. So it's a win win, I would have thought.<br><br><strong>Jenny</strong>: Really, really good point. Thank you for sharing that. This has been gold. It really has. I just want to ask you a couple more questions, if that's okay? What has changed for you, if anything, in light of what's happened with Covid, particularly around your agency relationships?<br><br><strong>Kate</strong>: Well, I think that right at the beginning of Covid is nobody knew what was going on. But actually the agencies I work with all reached out and touched in that first week. I was actually supposed to be on holiday in Argentina, so they knew I hadn't gone away and people were checking in. I think there was that personal touch first, and then they're was, 'can we help within communications? what are you working on on?' The biggest challenge for us as a business, but in our European businesses, less so in the US and Asia Pacific businesses where they're already dealing with big distances,&nbsp; in Europe most of our meetings with our client has been based to face so suddenly with that not possible, we're all turning to Zoom and Teams and Skype and trying to make those more engaging. So our agency was coming up with ideas about how to make those more engaging, how we might pitch invites even if they weren't actually involved, or being paid for that advice. They were really, really helpful and also just going back to webinars and events, virtual events have been held just sharing information. That's been a really productive part of agency connectons through this time.<br><br><strong>Jenny</strong>: That's fantastic. And now we're kind of moving out of lockdown, potentially - let's hope we're not gonna go back into it - but what would you say is the tipping point now? What would be most helpful at the point that we're at now, given the circumstances you're in?<br><br><strong>Kate</strong>: Our particular challenge or maybe objective rather than challenge, is how do we keep our teams new thing, these new virtual ways of interacting with clients, and proving that they work? And our agency is helping us pull together our own internal case studies, because we still have some of our business heads who think email marketing is a newfangled idea. So actually proving effectiveness on how measurable some of the things we've been doing through lockdown is&nbsp; what we'll focus on at the moment as we go through. We won't ever be back to business as normal, I don't think, or certainly not in the foreseeable future. So it's just staying in touch with how the industry is moving in and a better sense of what our sector is doing.<br><br><strong>Jenny</strong>: A really good point, and I'm sure that's translatable for agency account managers listening in, thinking about their own clients and how they can provide the most value to them. So that's really, really useful. This is the last question Kate for you. Honestly, you've been amazing. If agency account managers want to be seen by their clients as more of a trusted adviser, have you got any advice for them?<br><br><strong>Kate</strong>: Yes, I think, to two piece of advices I would give to account managers. First is really listen to your clients that you can better understand their business and their challenges. I mean, we're all flattered when people listen to what we have to say but actually also, if I've invested time with you explaining my business,what we do, then I've created that relationship already, and you're much more likely to be able to bring better solutions to me. And I'm much more likely to ask your views and advice going forward, so that's a bit of a virtuous circle, I think. And the second is please don't be afraid to challenge. I've got three decades of experience. That does not mean I'm right. And quite often, you know, I will say to people when I work with them, 'I need you to be questioning my thinking',&nbsp; because there will always be a better result that comes out of that. And it's back to intent, Jenny. Because if you constructively challenge with the right intent, then is always a better solution and you work much more closely together if you've had that debate.<br><br><strong>Jenny</strong>: Amazing. That's fantastic advice, Kate. You sound like the ideal client. Are you in the market for a new agency right now?<br><br><strong>Kate</strong>: Sadly not. Do feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn and make sure you do your research before you do.<br><br><strong>Jenny</strong>: They wouldn't dare, now, would they? Everyone of you researched up to the hilt. Kate, this has been amazing. Is there any question that I haven't asked you that I should have done ,as it relates to managing agency relationships?<br><br><strong>Kate</strong>: No, the only other thing I would say, Jenny, and I've said it already but I can't stress enough is that there must always be brief before you embark on a piece of work. Quite often, I've been in situations where clients have said, 'Oh, I didn't have time to do a brief'&nbsp; and of course, you end up spending four times as long doing something because people make assumptions and you get a rubbish piece of work out of it and it's the agency's fault. Even if you have to write the brief yourself and replay it to the client to get them to sign off on it, so you're not making any incorrect assumptions, just do that. Don't do anything without a brief.<br><br><strong>Jenny</strong>: Very, very sound advice that we're ending on. Kate, you've been amazing. Thank you so much for being my first guest on my very first podcast. I hope loads of account managers have made loads of notes and have come away with loads of ideas to try out with their clients. So, thank you so much.&nbsp;<br><br>I hope you enjoyed that interview and you've come away with some ideas and tips for you to implement in your role and with your client relationships. And if you'd like more information about the training to take your account from unpredictable project revenue to more predictable account growth, then come along to the Account Accelerator Programme, which is a three month weekly coaching course starting on the first of September. If you want more details, then you can go to bit.ly/accountaccelerator, or drop me a line at jenny@account management skills.<br><br><br></div>]]></content:encoded>
      <pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2020 06:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
      <author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</author>
      <enclosure url="https://media.castplus.fm/jwyq002w.mp3" length="43428487" type="audio/mpeg"/>
      <itunes:author>Jenny Plant - Account Management Skills Ltd</itunes:author>
      <itunes:image href="https://content.castplus.io/uploads/xzq0km1y/ce046c30-e952-11ea-95b8-f5a0ccd1320a/ce046d80-e952-11ea-b8ef-29bfc81b1acf.png"/>
      <itunes:duration>2171</itunes:duration>
      <itunes:summary>In my first episode I'm delighted to be chatting to Kate Whittaker, Head of Corporate Communications at DUAL International.

As a marketing client, Kate Whittaker has 30 years experience managing agency relationships so is very well placed to give her perspective on what agency account managers could be doing to win their clients over.

In this episode we cover:

1. How Kate selects her agencies and what she suggests you do if you're considering cold calling prospective clients
2. The qualities she looks for in a potential agency partner
3. Examples of where agency account managers have won her over and built her trust as well as where agencies get client management wrong
4. Some advice for how agencies can present additional ideas during the course of working on another project
5. Why you need to be asking your clients for more referrals
6. Her tips for how to position yourself as more of a trusted advisor
7. What's changed for her in light of COVID-19 and what she'd be interested in hearing from agencies right now
8. Some great tips for how to maintain and develop strong client relationships during this time of remote working

I hope you enjoy this episode. It's packed full of nuggets to help agency account managers with client retention and growth. 

The sound isn't optimal and my interviewing skills need some work but I do hope you come away with some actionable tips you can put into practice in your agency account management role.  

If you'd like more information about how you can retain and grow existing client relationships, you'll find information about the latest training for agency account managers here: https://bit.ly/accountaccelerator.

If you're an agency leader with three employees or more and haven't already joined the Agencynomics free community, here's a link to join: https://community.agencynomics.com/.

If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love your support by leaving a review and also drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com if you know someone in a client role who would like to be interviewed and can share some great advice for helping agency account managers with their role.</itunes:summary>
      <itunes:subtitle>In my first episode I'm delighted to be chatting to Kate Whittaker, Head of Corporate Communications at DUAL International.

As a marketing client, Kate Whittaker has 30 years experience managing agency relationships so is very well placed to give her perspective on what agency account managers could be doing to win their clients over.

In this episode we cover:

1. How Kate selects her agencies and what she suggests you do if you're considering cold calling prospective clients
2. The qualities she looks for in a potential agency partner
3. Examples of where agency account managers have won her over and built her trust as well as where agencies get client management wrong
4. Some advice for how agencies can present additional ideas during the course of working on another project
5. Why you need to be asking your clients for more referrals
6. Her tips for how to position yourself as more of a trusted advisor
7. What's changed for her in light of COVID-19 and what she'd be interested in hearing from agencies right now
8. Some great tips for how to maintain and develop strong client relationships during this time of remote working

I hope you enjoy this episode. It's packed full of nuggets to help agency account managers with client retention and growth. 

The sound isn't optimal and my interviewing skills need some work but I do hope you come away with some actionable tips you can put into practice in your agency account management role.  

If you'd like more information about how you can retain and grow existing client relationships, you'll find information about the latest training for agency account managers here: https://bit.ly/accountaccelerator.

If you're an agency leader with three employees or more and haven't already joined the Agencynomics free community, here's a link to join: https://community.agencynomics.com/.

If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love your support by leaving a review and also drop me a line at jenny@accountmanagementskills.com if you know someone in a client role who would like to be interviewed and can share some great advice for helping agency account managers with their role.</itunes:subtitle>
      <itunes:keywords>creative agency account manager</itunes:keywords>
      <itunes:explicit>No</itunes:explicit>
      <googleplay:explicit>No</googleplay:explicit>
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